Hi Mayka,

Action is automatic, though perhaps the word is not the best, in that it is not directed by the details of the mind but flows automatically from the center of being by just opening oneself to the flow of the Tao through oneself. Awareness is not a contradiction to this, it is an awareness of whatever is happening, automatic or not.


Edgar



On Nov 3, 2008, at 3:21 AM, Mayka wrote:

Hi Edgar again;

I have just been reading through the posting just to see which were
the word or words that lead us both to misunderstanding. In my case
the word you used in your first post making the statement "...it's
great to do sometimes things automatically" was what called my
attention because the last thing that the practice of zen is
automatic. This statement was the root of our misunderstanding.
Then you have been writing and claryfying what you meant. What you
meant is something different as automatic. It's not the same being
aware as being automatic. Don't you think?

Mayka

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Mayka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Good morning Edgar;
>
> You're absolutely right the body is always doing many things all at
> once. The practice is to be aware about what is happening in the
> body and in the mind and also surroundings. Whether we achieve
this
> or not is a different matter. I have never say that this is an
easy
> practice. It can be boring and tedious. I only said that is the
> practice of the present moment in which the tool of breathing in
> awareness is used.
>
> Probably we both are trying to say the same but somehow we're
getting
> entangled with words. The web is not an easy medium to express zen.
>
> Mayka
>
>
>
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> >
> > Mayka,
> >
> > You are missing my point. One's body is always doing many many
> things
> > at once. One could not exist otherwise. Scores of muscles have
to
> > move together to make even the simplest motion. To speak tongue
> and
> > lips and breath must all move at the same time. No one ever is
> doing
> > just one thing. That is an illusion.
> >
> > Edgar
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 2, 2008, at 2:58 PM, Mayka wrote:
> >
> > > Edgar;
> > >
> > > I believe you that if at every moment you're doing 100 or 1000
you
> > > may find difficult to concentrate in what you're doing!. The
whole
> > > point of the practice of the present moment is breathing in
> awarenes
> > > so that your head is in togetherness with your body and also
> aware of
> > > the activities you're doing. Very difficult to manage. I believe
> > > that. Tell me about it!!!. But that is the practice. If you're
> > > walking, you try no to chew you to start with. In fact the same
> > > practice put you off of chewing anything while you're walking.
> > >
> > > Mayka
> > >
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mayka,
> > > >
> > > > Not completely true. At every moment we are doing 100s or
1000s
> of
> > > > things. It is impossible to be focused on them all. There is
a
> big
> > > > difference between being awake and aware in the moment vs
> focusing
> > > on
> > > > everything that is happening in that moment which is
completely
> > > > impossible.
> > > >
> > > > It is possible for the Zen person to walk and chew gum
> > > simultaneously!
> > > >
> > > > Consider right now. I am mindful of what I am typing but not
of
> > > the
> > > > movement of each finger on the keyboard. That is still Zen.
> > > >
> > > > Be mindful, and let whatever focus happen naturally. But
focus
> on
> > > > reality in the present moment rather than getting lost
focusing
> on
> > > > mind contents.
> > > >
> > > > Edgar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 2, 2008, at 2:16 PM, Mayka wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Edgar;
> > > > >
> > > > > Good to hear from you again.
> > > > >
> > > > > If we do things automatically without being focused on
them,
> it
> > > only
> > > > > means that we're not living the present moment. Simple as
> that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mayka
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sometimes it's great just to do things automatically
without
> > > being
> > > > > > focused on them, that allows one to be mindful of more
> relevant
> > > > > things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Edgar
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Nov 2, 2008, at 4:07 AM, <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jody,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You wrote:
> > > > > > > >I think I understand that is the MOTIVATION that is
> > > important.
> > > > > If
> > > > > > > a person
> > > > > > > >has a driving desire to be a Phd in a subject that
> interests
> > > > > them,
> > > > > > > then if
> > > > > > > >the person pursues the subject they are studying with
> > > > > curiousity
> > > > > > > and they
> > > > > > > >focus on what they are doing today then that is the
> objective
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > if they
> > > > > > > >are driven to crave the PhD in the future without
> thinking of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > path to
> > > > > > > >get there then that is where the problem is?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think your thoughts above are close, but obtaining a
> PhD is
> > > a
> > > > > > > goal. LEARNING MORE ABOUT [whatever] is not a goal, it
is
> an
> > > > > > > activity. Now you could pursue the learning aspect by
many
> > > > > means,
> > > > > > > one of which would be enrolling in college and taking
> courses
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > might eventually lead to a PhD - BUT, the PhD is only
> > > incidental
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > the activity. It is not the activity itself.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, what I think Buddha and Jesus both said were more
> along
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > lines of living in the present. Using the example
above,
> if
> > > you
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > going to class every day and studying every night -
then
> you
> > > > > should
> > > > > > > pour yourself TOTALLY into each activity you are doing
IN
> THE
> > > > > > > PRESENT. You should wake up welcoming the new day, do
your
> > > > > morning
> > > > > > > exercises as best you can, take your shower and dry off
> with
> > > all
> > > > > > > your awareness, fix and eat your breakfast with
reverence
> and
> > > > > > > thanks, drive to class focusing all your attention on
the
> > > drive,
> > > > > > > attend class while focusing all your attention on the
> > > teacher's
> > > > > > > instructions, etc... You should NOT wake up and rush
> through
> > > > > your
> > > > > > > morning resenting the interruption of your sleep, shower
> > > quickly
> > > > > > > and eat your breakfast in a rush while trying to catch
the
> > > first
> > > > > 15
> > > > > > > mins of CNN, drive to class while thinking about your
> upcoming
> > > > > test
> > > > > > > or the cute girl/guy who sits next to you in class,
fidget
> > > > > through
> > > > > > > your class hoping it will end quickly so you and the
cute
> > > > > guy/girl
> > > > > > > sitting next to you could go to the beach or park.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is what I mean by living in the present, not
> dwelling on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > past or dreaming about the future.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...Bill!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>




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