Bill and Anthony,

I was taught to practice as follows for your reference. It may not be the same as some of the teachings that you "understand". But my witness so far is quite on par.


  1. First we practice to clean up our body, through chi based
     cultivation. As we become healthier, all sentient beings within
     our body are saved, meaning every cell is energized.
  2. As we focus on these chakras and chi channels, we begin to be
     detached from all forms.  And our awareness is enhanced.  Our
     Inner Awarenss will monitor and quiet our thoughts.  When we are
     able to be quite detached from forms, we have reached nirvana.  It
     is just a liberationg from suffering, both body and mind. Nothing
     else.  It is a state still can be further enhanced through the
     next stage.
  3. After we reached nirvana, we could then help everyone around us to
     be awakened and liberated, through our wisdom, which is a direct
     connection with the universe without egoic notions.  This is a
     stage of working in the mud to gain the wisdom and life force.  At
     this stage we gradually learn also how to heal the body and mind
     of others and in turn further enhances our nirvana.
  4. The more sentient beings we connect through our hearts, the higher
     the Buddhahood we reach.
  5. In short, the Awakened One is accomplished through Awaken
     Oneself.  Awaken Others, then Perfect the Act of Awakening. This
     is a common Buddhist statement.

I must add however, all Buddhist sutra said, we must surpass the Three Karmic Hindrances, our body, mind, and spirit. Without a chi oriented practice, we could take much much longer to surpass just the first karmic hindrance of our physical body. Surpassing our physical body does not mean detachment from the real physical discomfort of our body, but rather truly heal and rejuvenate our body to reach perfect health.

If your body has the same kind of illness after one year of meditation, then your technique needs to be changed.

JMJM

Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org


On 11/26/2010 8:02 AM, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:

Anthony,

I’ll repeat again that it is my understanding that the Mahayana’s vow is to not enter Nirvana before all other sentient beings are saved – not to postpone enlightenment until all other beings are saved.

You are basically equating Nirvana with enlightenment. Is that what you mean? Do you think these two terms describe the same experience?

…Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 7:47 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book

Bill,

'First enlightenment, then help others' is Theravada philosophy. It is to some extent in conflict with mahayana's 'first save all beings, then enlightenment (nirvana)'. As you agree, the latter is unfeasible in this world. I can only explain it in terms of intention.

Anthony

--- On Fri, 26/11/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org> <billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org>> wrote:

From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org> <billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org>>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, 26 November, 2010, 6:22 PM

ED,

I believe Mahayana Buddhism teaches that you should not enter Nirvana nor break yourself off of the Wheel-of-Life (the continuous cycle of birth and rebirth) until all sentient beings are released from suffering. This is not the same as saying your should help others before helping yourself. Just like the oxygen mask example, you do have to get yourself in a position to help others before trying to help.

I can’t give you a source but one quote I remember from somewhere is: ‘First attain enlightenment. Then instruct all beings.’

…Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 4:16 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book

ED,

You say: Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone?

My suggestion: fly to Dharamsala and ask Dalai Lama. (It is an essential mahayana teaching that you should help others before helping yourself.)

Anthony

--- On Thu, 25/11/10, ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com <mailto:seacrofter001%40yahoo.com>> wrote:

From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com <mailto:seacrofter001%40yahoo.com>>
Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 9:46 PM

Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone?
A mother who really cares for her child will put on her own oxygen mask first. On the other hand, "The life of an enlightened being is like the shadow of a bird on water."
--ED

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Anthony Wu <wu...@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> You got it wrong. Bodhisatvas advise you put the oxygen mask on other people before you have it on yourself. > > You have not answer whether you don't think preventing turmoil is necessary.
>
> Anthony

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