Anthony,
You are right that it is logically impossible to save all sentient beings, but
saving all sentient beings in not a logical exercise. You actually save all
sentient beings the moment you are enlightened.
I'm saying now for the 3rd time that Mahayana Buddhism does not discourage you
from becoming enlightened before until all sentient beings are enlightened. It
encourages you not to enter Nirvana before all sentient beings are enlightened.
I could extend the airplane analogy to represent this:
Put on your own oxygen mask before attempting to help others, but don't
exit the airplane
until everyone else is also ready to go.
I'm sure the Dalai Lama does have an answer for this, and it's probably
something to do with accusing the Chinese government of causing the emergency
by hijacking the aircraft.
...Bill!
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Anthony Wu
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 4:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
Bill,
Yes, I used the two terms too loosely. They should represent different ideas.
For instance, Sakyamuni got enlightened first, before entering nirvana.
Nevertheless, it is impossible to save all sentient beings in this universe, so
Bodhisatvas will never enter nirvana, if you think the worldly logic still
applies. Moreover, it is still my understanding that mahayana tells you to save
others before heeding yourself. Then, if you put the oxygen mask on the baby,
how do you survive without it, or a delay in putting it on is your problem.
Maybe Dalai Lama has an answer.
Anthony
--- On Sat, 27/11/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
To: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, 27 November, 2010, 12:02 AM
Anthony,
I’ll repeat again that it is my understanding that the Mahayana’s vow is to not
enter Nirvana before all other sentient beings are saved – not to postpone
enlightenment until all other beings are saved.
You are basically equating Nirvana with enlightenment. Is that what you mean?
Do you think these two terms describe the same experience?
…Bill!
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Anthony Wu
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 7:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
Bill,
'First enlightenment, then help others' is Theravada philosophy. It is to some
extent in conflict with mahayana's 'first save all beings, then enlightenment
(nirvana)'. As you agree, the latter is unfeasible in this world. I can only
explain it in terms of intention.
Anthony
--- On Fri, 26/11/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, 26 November, 2010, 6:22 PM
ED,
I believe Mahayana Buddhism teaches that you should not enter Nirvana nor break
yourself off of the Wheel-of-Life (the continuous cycle of birth and rebirth)
until all sentient beings are released from suffering. This is not the same as
saying your should help others before helping yourself. Just like the oxygen
mask example, you do have to get yourself in a position to help others before
trying to help.
I can’t give you a source but one quote I remember from somewhere is: ‘First
attain enlightenment. Then instruct all beings.’
…Bill!
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Anthony Wu
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 4:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
ED,
You say: Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone?
My suggestion: fly to Dharamsala and ask Dalai Lama. (It is an essential
mahayana teaching that you should help others before helping yourself.)
Anthony
--- On Thu, 25/11/10, ED <[email protected]> wrote:
From: ED <[email protected]>
Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 9:46 PM
Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone?
A mother who really cares for her child will put on her own oxygen mask first.
On the other hand, "The life of an enlightened being is like the shadow of a
bird on water."
--ED
--- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wu...@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> You got it wrong. Bodhisatvas advise you put the oxygen mask on other people
> before you have it on yourself. >
> You have not answer whether you don't think preventing turmoil is necessary.
>
> Anthony
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