Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone
On Jan 3, 2011, at 17:52, Mark Perew <[email protected]> wrote: > > > For me, the bell timer is an indicator as to how much I was in to my > mediation. When the bell sounds and I am surprised that it is sounding so > soon, then that is a clue that I was present for my breathing and not for > other things. Ha ha that is funny. It is the complete opposite for me! The bell startles me when I have drifted off into distant thoughts. When I am staying aware of right here right now, I am aware when the period is about to end. Even to the point that I will know that this person on my left always moves a hand about three minutes before the period ends, or this bell ringer tenses up a good ten seconds before picking up the mallet. At home if I am not fighting sitting, then an insence stick works fine, but usually I am resistant and I use an electronic timer of some sort. I find that while my thoughts will touch on the time, like you say it is no more so than on the other ten thousand things I could get worried about. > > Yes, there are times when my mind wanders off to the bell, wondering when it > will go off. But that's one of a million places my mind goes. The bell > itself is no more or less of a distraction than anything else. > > 2011/1/3 Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <[email protected]> > > > Good Morning Dave P, > > Let me explain why "gong" or timer or any external devices are not > recommended for serious Chan practitioners. > > Because, when there is external dependency, our mind will be anxious in > waiting for that "gong". It could be constantly asking itself, "where is the > gong? when is it going to gong? Isn't it time yet? Haven't I sit enough > time yet?, etc. etc." > > Sitting by TOTALLY FOLLOW our path of breathing with Back Straight, as per > Mel, for a shorter time is more effective than longer time with only > partially FOLLOW our path of breathing. > > Just do it and please don't worry too much of the technicality of our mind. > Meaning follow your heart and not your mind. You will get better. > > JM > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > > On 1/3/2011 6:43 AM, Dave P wrote: >> >> >> I wasn't clear about the CD. it is by John Daido loori, and it >> is a gong followed by 10 minutes of silence completed by another gong. >> >> --- In [email protected], Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 >> <chan.j...@...> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Dave P, >> > >> > Great. You are willing to give it a try. Here is the link to my >> > previous post on detailed instructions. >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/message/21977 >> > >> > The following instructions are non-negotiable. >> > 1. Please don't use a CD. No music. No voice. Complete silence is >> > the only way to rest your over-stressed mind. >> > 2. Feel and sense the air passing into your nose, then throat, then >> > lunch then your belly. We called it, "follow the path of your breathing." >> > 3. Don't worry about the time, do as long as you can. 30 minutes is >> > better, but 10 minutes is fine too. Slowly learn to sit longer. Don't >> > worry if you failed to breath for ten minutes. Neither should you >> > expect to belly breathe for 30 minutes. Just sit quietly FOLLOW the >> > path of your breathing. >> > 4. You must commit to do it every day at same time and same place in >> > the morning before breakfast. Not while you are tired or agitated or upset. >> > >> > Let me know if you have any questions. Are my instructions clear? Can >> > you commit to do it for a minimum of 30 days? >> > >> > JM >> > >> > >> > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can >> > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com >> > http://www.heartchan.org >> > >> > >> > On 1/2/2011 12:21 PM, Dave P wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > 1) Is ten minutes okay? I ask because I already have a >> > > timed CD with a >> > > 10 minute zazen session. >> > > 2) I hope I don't come accross as distrustful of your suggestions! I >> > > have had problems with that on the OCD board. >> > > 3) I think I might have lost your instruction. I am aware of breathing >> > > from the diaphram, and have been doing that for about >> > > three years >> > > rather irregularly. >> > > >> > > I really hope this doesn't come off as distrustful! >> > > >> > > --- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, >> > > Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Dearest Dave, >> > > > >> > > > When we suffer, one of the symptoms is to be distrustful of every >> > > > suggestion, because we have been cheated continuously far too long. >> > > > Instead of questioning or thinking.... may I suggest.... >> > > > >> > > > If you could, please take fifteen minutes every day to do belly >> > > > breathing for 30 days at same time and same place by >> > > > following my >> > > > instructions from my previous post. >> > > > >> > > > If you promise that you will commit to belly breathing for 30 days, I >> > > > will help by transmit the blessing of GuanYin Bodhisatva to you. >> > > > >> > > > Deal? >> > > > JM >> > > > >> > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can >> > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com >> > > > http://www.heartchan.org >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On 1/1/2011 9:39 AM, Dave P wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > Here's another dillemma i've had. the idea that everything is under >> > > > > control, and the difference between that and choice. There is the >> > > > > phrase "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." I think that >> > > there >> > > > > is truth in that, but I still feel that choosing to feel one may >> > > > > nmeans that you have to ACT. That your actions have consequences that >> > > > > you cannot control, a notion that paralyzes me. Can mindfulness help >> > > > > with that? If so, how? >> > > > > >> > > > > --- In [email protected] >> > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, >> > > > > Jue Miao Jing Ming - >> > > > > 覺妙精æËÅ"Ž <chan.jmjm@> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Happy New Year Ed, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Propose another word in place of "mindfulness" is a very >> > > > > > challenging >> > > > > > task. Let me explain. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > In the practice and dealing with everyday life, we say "Be aware >> > > but >> > > > > not >> > > > > > attached to", "focus but not focusing", "observe but not >> > > observing", >> > > > > are >> > > > > > some of the terms we use while we translate from our Chinese text >> > > > > > to >> > > > > > English. In other words, "sync to the universal wisdom at every >> > > moment, >> > > > > > and not be attached to the meaning of the phenomena." is the >> > > phrase we >> > > > > > need to represent with a single word. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > The most common general terms as a verb in the practice, we use >> > > are "be >> > > > > > aware", "sense", "feel", etc. i.e. "sense our breathing", "feel the >> > > > > > chakra". They are usually terms applying also to emotions, >> > > feelings as >> > > > > > well as our general overall well being, physical and spiritual. >> > > We can >> > > > > > not separate our "true feeling" from our body or mind. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > We are very careful not to consistently use the same word. >> > > Especially >> > > > > > the practice to "notice" the conditions of our body, mind and >> > > spirit, >> > > > > > could require different verb for a similar function. Chan teaching >> > > > > > requires flexibility. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > The purpose of Chan wordings are nothing but to wake up the >> > > > > > practitioner, and not to set a path or a rule to follow. After >> > > > > > 5,000 >> > > > > > words, Diamond Sutra said only one thing, "Whatever you think it >> > > is, it >> > > > > > is not. It just is." >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Perhaps a lot of times, I am guilty in becoming lazy and just say, >> > > > > > "Shut up, Sit down and Stop thinking." >> > > > > > LOL. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can >> > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com >> > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On 1/1/2011 7:37 AM, ED wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > JM, >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > What is your proposed definition of 'mindfulness'? >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --ED >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In [email protected] >> > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Jue Miao Jing Ming - >> > > > > ÃÆ'¨Â¦ÂºÃÆ'¥Â¦â„¢ÃÆ'§Â²Â¾ÃÆ'¦ËÅ"Ž >> > > > > > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thank you JDB. Indeed we also teach "emptiness of mind". >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Somehow the western Zen is stuck on the label of "mind" and >> > > would not >> > > > > > > let go.ÃÆ'‚ There is even a seminar about the small mind >> > > > > > > and >> > > big mind. >> > > > > > > Though all journeys lead to the same place. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > "Mind" is too close to "thinking". It can be easily >> > > misunderstood and >> > > > > > > misinterpreted. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > We teach "empty your mind", "enhance your heart". And we >> > > continue to >> > > > > > > say "because heart is where we could unify our body, mind and >> > > spirit." >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Somehow, unify our body to the same physical structure as the >> > > > > universe >> > > > > > > is not emphasized in western Zen.ÃÆ'‚ Most of the reading >> > > that I have >> > > > > > > encountered with focuses mainly on the mind and its awareness, >> > > not on >> > > > > > > the body and little on the spirit.ÃÆ'‚ Though we >> > > > > > > constantly >> > > talked >> > > > > about >> > > > > > > body, mind and spirit, but in essence, they are one and >> > > > > inseparable.ÃÆ'‚ >> > > > > > > Just like the universe. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > In our school, awareness does not reside in the mind. >> > > Awareness is a >> > > > > > > function of our spirit, which reside in our heart.ÃÆ'‚ >> > > "Heart" is not >> > > > > > > the organic heart, but our "total well being", our "center" or >> > > > > > > "ONE".ÃÆ'‚ Awareness enhancement helps us to be awakened >> > > > > > > to the >> > > > > Absolute >> > > > > > > Awareness of the universe. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > This brings this post to another question. What does Zen say >> > > about >> > > > > our >> > > > > > > spirit? Our spiritual levels, our spiritual being, spiritual >> > > karma, >> > > > > > > the sixth, seventh and eighth consciousness? >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > After several years with this forum, I have read little about >> > > > > these.ÃÆ'‚ >> > > > > > > In other words, to be enlightened, we need to surpass karmic >> > > > > hindrance >> > > > > > > of body, mind and spirit. We need to work on all three. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Otherwise, we are just imagining and hoping. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On this New Year Day, I hope this post is not too >> > > objectionable to >> > > > > ALL. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Happy New Year and thank you for your patience and >> > > understanding for >> > > > > > > all the years. >> > > > > > > JMJM >> > > > > > > Head Teacher >> > > > > > > Order Of Chan >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can >> > > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com >> > > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 12/31/2010 10:12 PM, Rev. Joriki Dat Baker wrote: >> > > > > > >> ÃÆ'‚ >> > > > > > >> Or the emptiness of mind. >> > > > > > >> I wonder if something similar could be said about mindfulness. >> > > > > > >> "Mindful" in the Western sense seems to be directing your >> > > attention >> > > > > > >> in one direction, However, maybe a better translation is "mind >> > > > > > >> fullness," as in you experience everything with the fullness >> > > of your >> > > > > > >> mind. Or am I way off here? >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > >
