Hello Dave P,

Perhaps you can tell me what does "P" stand for. I felt quite impolite to address you so.


You see, the most effective meditation need to "completely" rest all external connections. So that our mind is "completely" at ease. Stress the mind is the cause of the OCD.

And this "completely rest" includes the details of my my instructions. Let us try the following...

Follow the path of your belly breathing all the way into your belly. Pause a little, then exhale. Do it as slow as you can with your eyes closed. Don't worry about the time.

Open your eyes only when you can no longer FOLLOW the path of your breathing or just want to quit. Then open your eyes. If it were only three minutes. Fine. Accept it. Just don't worry about nothing. Just FOLLOW the path of your breathing. Just try to stay in belly breathing longer next time. That's all.

Is this acceptable to you?
:-)

Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org


On 1/3/2011 3:00 PM, Dave P wrote:

But isn't the alternative staring at a clock?

I find myself never waiting for the gong. it usually just comes.

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.j...@...> wrote:
>
> Good Morning Dave P,
>
> Let me explain why "gong" or timer or any external devices are not
> recommended for serious Chan practitioners.
>
> Because, when there is external dependency, our mind will be anxious in
> waiting for that "gong". It could be constantly asking itself, "where
> is the gong? when is it going to gong? Isn't it time yet? Haven't I
> sit enough time yet?, etc. etc."
>
> Sitting by TOTALLY FOLLOW our path of breathing with Back Straight, as
> per Mel, for a shorter time is more effective than longer time with only
> partially FOLLOW our path of breathing.
>
> Just do it and please don't worry too much of the technicality of our
> mind. Meaning follow your heart and not your mind. You will get better.
>
> JM
>
> Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> http://www.heartchan.org
>
>
> On 1/3/2011 6:43 AM, Dave P wrote:
> >
> > I wasn't clear about the CD. it is by John Daido loori, and it is a
> > gong followed by 10 minutes of silence completed by another gong.
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Dave P,
> > >
> > > Great. You are willing to give it a try. Here is the link to my
> > > previous post on detailed instructions.
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/message/21977
> > >
> > > The following instructions are non-negotiable.
> > > 1. Please don't use a CD. No music. No voice. Complete silence is
> > > the only way to rest your over-stressed mind.
> > > 2. Feel and sense the air passing into your nose, then throat, then
> > > lunch then your belly. We called it, "follow the path of your
> > breathing."
> > > 3. Don't worry about the time, do as long as you can. 30 minutes is
> > > better, but 10 minutes is fine too. Slowly learn to sit longer. Don't
> > > worry if you failed to breath for ten minutes. Neither should you
> > > expect to belly breathe for 30 minutes. Just sit quietly FOLLOW the
> > > path of your breathing.
> > > 4. You must commit to do it every day at same time and same place in
> > > the morning before breakfast. Not while you are tired or agitated or
> > upset.
> > >
> > > Let me know if you have any questions. Are my instructions clear? Can
> > > you commit to do it for a minimum of 30 days?
> > >
> > > JM
> > >
> > >
> > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > >
> > >
> > > On 1/2/2011 12:21 PM, Dave P wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1) Is ten minutes okay? I ask because I already have a timed CD
> > with a
> > > > 10 minute zazen session.
> > > > 2) I hope I don't come accross as distrustful of your suggestions! I
> > > > have had problems with that on the OCD board.
> > > > 3) I think I might have lost your instruction. I am aware of
> > breathing
> > > > from the diaphram, and have been doing that for about three years
> > > > rather irregularly.
> > > >
> > > > I really hope this doesn't come off as distrustful!
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精æËÅ"Ž <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Dearest Dave,
> > > > >
> > > > > When we suffer, one of the symptoms is to be distrustful of every > > > > > suggestion, because we have been cheated continuously far too long.
> > > > > Instead of questioning or thinking.... may I suggest....
> > > > >
> > > > > If you could, please take fifteen minutes every day to do belly
> > > > > breathing for 30 days at same time and same place by following my
> > > > > instructions from my previous post.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you promise that you will commit to belly breathing for 30
> > days, I
> > > > > will help by transmit the blessing of GuanYin Bodhisatva to you.
> > > > >
> > > > > Deal?
> > > > > JM
> > > > >
> > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 1/1/2011 9:39 AM, Dave P wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here's another dillemma i've had. the idea that everything is
> > under
> > > > > > control, and the difference between that and choice. There is the > > > > > > phrase "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." I think that
> > > > there
> > > > > > is truth in that, but I still feel that choosing to feel one may
> > > > > > nmeans that you have to ACT. That your actions have
> > consequences that
> > > > > > you cannot control, a notion that paralyzes me. Can
> > mindfulness help
> > > > > > with that? If so, how?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > Jue Miao Jing Ming -
> > ÃÆ'¨Â¦ÂºÃÆ'¥Â¦â„¢ÃÆ'§Â²Â¾ÃÆ'¦ËÅ"Ž <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Happy New Year Ed,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Propose another word in place of "mindfulness" is a very
> > challenging
> > > > > > > task. Let me explain.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the practice and dealing with everyday life, we say "Be
> > aware
> > > > but
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > attached to", "focus but not focusing", "observe but not
> > > > observing",
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > some of the terms we use while we translate from our Chinese
> > text to
> > > > > > > English. In other words, "sync to the universal wisdom at every
> > > > moment,
> > > > > > > and not be attached to the meaning of the phenomena." is the
> > > > phrase we
> > > > > > > need to represent with a single word.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The most common general terms as a verb in the practice, we use
> > > > are "be
> > > > > > > aware", "sense", "feel", etc. i.e. "sense our breathing",
> > "feel the
> > > > > > > chakra". They are usually terms applying also to emotions,
> > > > feelings as
> > > > > > > well as our general overall well being, physical and spiritual.
> > > > We can
> > > > > > > not separate our "true feeling" from our body or mind.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We are very careful not to consistently use the same word.
> > > > Especially
> > > > > > > the practice to "notice" the conditions of our body, mind and
> > > > spirit,
> > > > > > > could require different verb for a similar function. Chan
> > teaching
> > > > > > > requires flexibility.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The purpose of Chan wordings are nothing but to wake up the
> > > > > > > practitioner, and not to set a path or a rule to follow.
> > After 5,000
> > > > > > > words, Diamond Sutra said only one thing, "Whatever you
> > think it
> > > > is, it
> > > > > > > is not. It just is."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps a lot of times, I am guilty in becoming lazy and
> > just say,
> > > > > > > "Shut up, Sit down and Stop thinking."
> > > > > > > LOL.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 1/1/2011 7:37 AM, ED wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > JM,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What is your proposed definition of 'mindfulness'?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --ED
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Jue Miao Jing Ming -
> > > > > >
> > ÃÆ'Æ'¨ÃÆ'‚¦ÃÆ'‚ºÃÆ'Æ'Â¥ÃÆ'‚¦ÃÆ'¢â€žÂ¢ÃÆ'Æ'§ÃÆ'‚²ÃÆ'‚¾ÃÆ'Æ'¦ÃÆ'‹Å"ÃÆ'…½
> > > > > > > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you JDB. Indeed we also teach "emptiness of mind".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Somehow the western Zen is stuck on the label of "mind" and
> > > > would not
> > > > > > > > let go.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ There is even a seminar about the small
> > mind and
> > > > big mind.
> > > > > > > > Though all journeys lead to the same place.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Mind" is too close to "thinking". It can be easily
> > > > misunderstood and
> > > > > > > > misinterpreted.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We teach "empty your mind", "enhance your heart". And we
> > > > continue to
> > > > > > > > say "because heart is where we could unify our body, mind and
> > > > spirit."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Somehow, unify our body to the same physical structure as the
> > > > > > universe
> > > > > > > > is not emphasized in western Zen.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ Most of the
> > reading
> > > > that I have
> > > > > > > > encountered with focuses mainly on the mind and its
> > awareness,
> > > > not on
> > > > > > > > the body and little on the spirit.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ Though we
> > constantly
> > > > talked
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > body, mind and spirit, but in essence, they are one and
> > > > > > inseparable.ÃÆ'Æ'‚
> > > > > > > > Just like the universe.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In our school, awareness does not reside in the mind.
> > > > Awareness is a
> > > > > > > > function of our spirit, which reside in our heart.ÃÆ'Æ'‚
> > > > "Heart" is not
> > > > > > > > the organic heart, but our "total well being", our "center" or > > > > > > > > "ONE".ÃÆ'Æ'‚ Awareness enhancement helps us to be
> > awakened to the
> > > > > > Absolute
> > > > > > > > Awareness of the universe.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This brings this post to another question. What does Zen say
> > > > about
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > spirit? Our spiritual levels, our spiritual being, spiritual
> > > > karma,
> > > > > > > > the sixth, seventh and eighth consciousness?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > After several years with this forum, I have read little about
> > > > > > these.ÃÆ'Æ'‚
> > > > > > > > In other words, to be enlightened, we need to surpass karmic
> > > > > > hindrance
> > > > > > > > of body, mind and spirit. We need to work on all three.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Otherwise, we are just imagining and hoping.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On this New Year Day, I hope this post is not too
> > > > objectionable to
> > > > > > ALL.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Happy New Year and thank you for your patience and
> > > > understanding for
> > > > > > > > all the years.
> > > > > > > > JMJM
> > > > > > > > Head Teacher
> > > > > > > > Order Of Chan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 12/31/2010 10:12 PM, Rev. Joriki Dat Baker wrote:
> > > > > > > >> ÃÆ'Æ'‚
> > > > > > > >> Or the emptiness of mind.
> > > > > > > >> I wonder if something similar could be said about
> > mindfulness.
> > > > > > > >> "Mindful" in the Western sense seems to be directing your
> > > > attention
> > > > > > > >> in one direction, However, maybe a better translation is
> > "mind
> > > > > > > >> fullness," as in you experience everything with the fullness
> > > > of your
> > > > > > > >> mind. Or am I way off here?ÃÆ'‚
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>


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