But isn't the alternative staring at a clock?

I find myself never waiting for the gong. it usually just comes.

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 
<chan.j...@...> wrote:
>
> Good Morning Dave P,
> 
> Let me explain why "gong" or timer or any external devices are not 
> recommended for serious Chan practitioners.
> 
> Because, when there is external dependency, our mind will be anxious in 
> waiting for that "gong".  It could be constantly asking itself, "where 
> is the gong?  when is it going to gong?  Isn't it time yet? Haven't I 
> sit enough time yet?, etc. etc."
> 
> Sitting by TOTALLY FOLLOW our path of breathing with Back Straight, as 
> per Mel, for a shorter time is more effective than longer time with only 
> partially FOLLOW our path of breathing.
> 
> Just do it and please don't worry too much of the technicality of our 
> mind.  Meaning follow your heart and not your mind.  You will get better.
> 
> JM
> 
> Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> http://www.heartchan.org
> 
> 
> On 1/3/2011 6:43 AM, Dave P wrote:
> >
> > I wasn't clear about the CD. it is by John Daido loori, and it is a 
> > gong followed by 10 minutes of silence completed by another gong.
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, 
> > Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Dave P,
> > >
> > > Great. You are willing to give it a try. Here is the link to my
> > > previous post on detailed instructions.
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/message/21977
> > >
> > > The following instructions are non-negotiable.
> > > 1. Please don't use a CD. No music. No voice. Complete silence is
> > > the only way to rest your over-stressed mind.
> > > 2. Feel and sense the air passing into your nose, then throat, then
> > > lunch then your belly. We called it, "follow the path of your 
> > breathing."
> > > 3. Don't worry about the time, do as long as you can. 30 minutes is
> > > better, but 10 minutes is fine too. Slowly learn to sit longer. Don't
> > > worry if you failed to breath for ten minutes. Neither should you
> > > expect to belly breathe for 30 minutes. Just sit quietly FOLLOW the
> > > path of your breathing.
> > > 4. You must commit to do it every day at same time and same place in
> > > the morning before breakfast. Not while you are tired or agitated or 
> > upset.
> > >
> > > Let me know if you have any questions. Are my instructions clear? Can
> > > you commit to do it for a minimum of 30 days?
> > >
> > > JM
> > >
> > >
> > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > >
> > >
> > > On 1/2/2011 12:21 PM, Dave P wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1) Is ten minutes okay? I ask because I already have a timed CD 
> > with a
> > > > 10 minute zazen session.
> > > > 2) I hope I don't come accross as distrustful of your suggestions! I
> > > > have had problems with that on the OCD board.
> > > > 3) I think I might have lost your instruction. I am aware of 
> > breathing
> > > > from the diaphram, and have been doing that for about three years
> > > > rather irregularly.
> > > >
> > > > I really hope this doesn't come off as distrustful!
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Jue Miao Jing Ming - 
> > > > 覺妙精æËÅ"Ž <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Dearest Dave,
> > > > >
> > > > > When we suffer, one of the symptoms is to be distrustful of every
> > > > > suggestion, because we have been cheated continuously far too long.
> > > > > Instead of questioning or thinking.... may I suggest....
> > > > >
> > > > > If you could, please take fifteen minutes every day to do belly
> > > > > breathing for 30 days at same time and same place by following my
> > > > > instructions from my previous post.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you promise that you will commit to belly breathing for 30 
> > days, I
> > > > > will help by transmit the blessing of GuanYin Bodhisatva to you.
> > > > >
> > > > > Deal?
> > > > > JM
> > > > >
> > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 1/1/2011 9:39 AM, Dave P wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here's another dillemma i've had. the idea that everything is 
> > under
> > > > > > control, and the difference between that and choice. There is the
> > > > > > phrase "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." I think that
> > > > there
> > > > > > is truth in that, but I still feel that choosing to feel one may
> > > > > > nmeans that you have to ACT. That your actions have 
> > consequences that
> > > > > > you cannot control, a notion that paralyzes me. Can 
> > mindfulness help
> > > > > > with that? If so, how?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > Jue Miao Jing Ming - 
> > ÃÆ'¨Â¦ÂºÃÆ'¥Â¦â„¢ÃÆ'§Â²Â¾ÃÆ'¦ËÅ"Ž
> >  <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Happy New Year Ed,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Propose another word in place of "mindfulness" is a very 
> > challenging
> > > > > > > task. Let me explain.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the practice and dealing with everyday life, we say "Be 
> > aware
> > > > but
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > attached to", "focus but not focusing", "observe but not
> > > > observing",
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > some of the terms we use while we translate from our Chinese 
> > text to
> > > > > > > English. In other words, "sync to the universal wisdom at every
> > > > moment,
> > > > > > > and not be attached to the meaning of the phenomena." is the
> > > > phrase we
> > > > > > > need to represent with a single word.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The most common general terms as a verb in the practice, we use
> > > > are "be
> > > > > > > aware", "sense", "feel", etc. i.e. "sense our breathing", 
> > "feel the
> > > > > > > chakra". They are usually terms applying also to emotions,
> > > > feelings as
> > > > > > > well as our general overall well being, physical and spiritual.
> > > > We can
> > > > > > > not separate our "true feeling" from our body or mind.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We are very careful not to consistently use the same word.
> > > > Especially
> > > > > > > the practice to "notice" the conditions of our body, mind and
> > > > spirit,
> > > > > > > could require different verb for a similar function. Chan 
> > teaching
> > > > > > > requires flexibility.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The purpose of Chan wordings are nothing but to wake up the
> > > > > > > practitioner, and not to set a path or a rule to follow. 
> > After 5,000
> > > > > > > words, Diamond Sutra said only one thing, "Whatever you 
> > think it
> > > > is, it
> > > > > > > is not. It just is."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps a lot of times, I am guilty in becoming lazy and 
> > just say,
> > > > > > > "Shut up, Sit down and Stop thinking."
> > > > > > > LOL.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 1/1/2011 7:37 AM, ED wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > JM,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What is your proposed definition of 'mindfulness'?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --ED
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Jue Miao Jing Ming -
> > > > > > 
> > ÃÆ'Æ'¨ÃÆ'‚¦ÃÆ'‚ºÃÆ'Æ'Â¥ÃÆ'‚¦ÃÆ'¢â€žÂ¢ÃÆ'Æ'§ÃÆ'‚²ÃÆ'‚¾ÃÆ'Æ'¦ÃÆ'‹Å"ÃÆ'…½
> > > > > > > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you JDB. Indeed we also teach "emptiness of mind".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Somehow the western Zen is stuck on the label of "mind" and
> > > > would not
> > > > > > > > let go.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ There is even a seminar about the 
> > > > > > > > small 
> > mind and
> > > > big mind.
> > > > > > > > Though all journeys lead to the same place.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Mind" is too close to "thinking". It can be easily
> > > > misunderstood and
> > > > > > > > misinterpreted.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We teach "empty your mind", "enhance your heart". And we
> > > > continue to
> > > > > > > > say "because heart is where we could unify our body, mind and
> > > > spirit."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Somehow, unify our body to the same physical structure as the
> > > > > > universe
> > > > > > > > is not emphasized in western Zen.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ Most of 
> > > > > > > > the 
> > reading
> > > > that I have
> > > > > > > > encountered with focuses mainly on the mind and its 
> > awareness,
> > > > not on
> > > > > > > > the body and little on the spirit.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ Though 
> > > > > > > > we 
> > constantly
> > > > talked
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > body, mind and spirit, but in essence, they are one and
> > > > > > inseparable.ÃÆ'Æ'‚
> > > > > > > > Just like the universe.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In our school, awareness does not reside in the mind.
> > > > Awareness is a
> > > > > > > > function of our spirit, which reside in our 
> > > > > > > > heart.ÃÆ'Æ'‚
> > > > "Heart" is not
> > > > > > > > the organic heart, but our "total well being", our "center" or
> > > > > > > > "ONE".ÃÆ'Æ'‚ Awareness enhancement helps us to 
> > > > > > > > be 
> > awakened to the
> > > > > > Absolute
> > > > > > > > Awareness of the universe.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This brings this post to another question. What does Zen say
> > > > about
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > spirit? Our spiritual levels, our spiritual being, spiritual
> > > > karma,
> > > > > > > > the sixth, seventh and eighth consciousness?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > After several years with this forum, I have read little about
> > > > > > these.ÃÆ'Æ'‚
> > > > > > > > In other words, to be enlightened, we need to surpass karmic
> > > > > > hindrance
> > > > > > > > of body, mind and spirit. We need to work on all three.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Otherwise, we are just imagining and hoping.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On this New Year Day, I hope this post is not too
> > > > objectionable to
> > > > > > ALL.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Happy New Year and thank you for your patience and
> > > > understanding for
> > > > > > > > all the years.
> > > > > > > > JMJM
> > > > > > > > Head Teacher
> > > > > > > > Order Of Chan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 12/31/2010 10:12 PM, Rev. Joriki Dat Baker wrote:
> > > > > > > >> ÃÆ'Æ'‚
> > > > > > > >> Or the emptiness of mind.
> > > > > > > >> I wonder if something similar could be said about 
> > mindfulness.
> > > > > > > >> "Mindful" in the Western sense seems to be directing your
> > > > attention
> > > > > > > >> in one direction, However, maybe a better translation is 
> > "mind
> > > > > > > >> fullness," as in you experience everything with the fullness
> > > > of your
> > > > > > > >> mind. Or am I way off here?ÃÆ'‚
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>




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