"According to Tibetan Buddhism </wiki/Tibetan_Buddhism>  and Bön
</wiki/B%C3%B6n> , Dzogchen is the natural, primordial state or natural
condition of the mind, and a body of teachings and meditation practices
aimed at realizing that condition. Dzogchen, or "Great Perfection", is a
central teaching of the Nyingma </wiki/Nyingma>  school also practiced
by adherents of other Tibetan Buddhist sects. According to Dzogchen
literature, Dzogchen is the highest and most definitive path to
enlightenment.[1] <#cite_note-0> "         (Wiki)

Hi Kristy,

Excellent practice too!

One should pick one's teacher and adopt his/her preferred path with
unshakeable faith.

No, I'm not being facetious.

I love Dzogchen, and I associated with a well-known Dzogchen teacher for
some time.


Related phrases:   dzogchen ponlop rinpoche
fl=en&sa=X&ei=BZcgTd_TApC-sQPl7KngCg&ved=0CAQQowMoAA>    dzogchen
a=X&ei=BZcgTd_TApC-sQPl7KngCg&ved=0CAUQowMoAQ>    dzogchen gar dang
a=X&ei=BZcgTd_TApC-sQPl7KngCg&ved=0CAYQowMoAg>    dzogchen monastery
sa=X&ei=BZcgTd_TApC-sQPl7KngCg&ved=0CAcQowMoAw>    dzogchen rinpoche
a=X&ei=BZcgTd_TApC-sQPl7KngCg&ved=0CAgQowMoBA>    dzogchen contemplation
=en&sa=X&ei=BZcgTd_TApC-sQPl7KngCg&ved=0CAkQowMoBQ>    2nd dzogchen

Definitions of dzogchen on the Web:
    * According to some schools of Tibetan Buddhism and Bön, Dzogchen
is the natural, primordial state or natural condition of the mind, and a
body of teachings aimed at realizing that condition. ...

    * Dzogchen Monastery (Tib. rdzogs chen dgon pa) is one of the six
great monasteries of the Nyingma tradition of Tibetan Buddhism. It is
located in Eastern Tibet in the Chinese province of Sichuan. It was
founded by Dzogchen Pema Rigdzin (1625-1697) in 1675, 1684 or 1685. ...

    * Tibetan; literally, "great perfection"; the supreme teachings of
the Nyingmapa school of Tibetan Buddhism; its adherents believe these
teachings are the highest and therefore that no other means are
necessary; also known as ati-yoga.

    * (tib: rdzogs chen) The "great perfection" or "great completion."
Dzogchen is considered the highest teaching and practice in Tibetan
Buddhism. ...

    * Dzogchen is the Buddhist yana, or 'vehicle', based on the approach
of self-liberation. Self-liberation occurs when we allow phenomena to be
as they are. 'Phenomena' here includes both external objects and mental
ones, such as perceptions and emotions. Compare Tantrayana and
Sutrayana. ...

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@...>

*bows* to Dave,   I haven't been following  this thread due to the
holidays, but thought I'd share this.  Another perspective..       >From
Small Boat, Great Mountain by Amaro Bhikkhu
>And so for about the first two or three weeks of the winter
>retreat in 1987, Ajahn Sumedho kept telling people not to meditate:
>Just be awake.
>He would say to us over and over again, Stop it, stop meditating!
>He stressed this repeatedly and gave two or three
>Dharma talks a day on not meditating. He would tell people to
>open their eyes and stop trying to concentrate. Sometimes there
>would be the plaintive cry, But what are we supposed to do?
>For which the person would receive a response in thunderbolts
>saying, do!? Don't do anything. You already are it. Don't do
>anything. The methodology was identical to the undistracted
>nonmeditation employed in Dzogchen practice.
>He was trying to point out that dimension of doingness, busyness,
>that becoming quality that so easily takes over the meditation.
>It can permeate the whole effort of spiritual practice. The
>becoming tendency takes over and gets legitimized by being called
>meditation or me becoming enlightened. Meanwhile, we miss
>the fact that we are losing the main point and that what we are
>doing has turned into a self-based program. We get caught in the
>illusion, trying to make the self become something other. As a
>result, we lose track of the real essence of the practice. Making
>the effort to see how this happens made this a very fruitful
>retreat. After about two or three weeks we were beginning to get
>a sense of what it means to stay present: Don't do something
>now to become enlightened in the future. Just be awake now.
Be well in the New Year..   Kristy

--- On Sat, 1/1/11, Dave P <wookielife...@...> wrote:

From: Dave P Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011
     Here's another dillemma i've had. the idea that everything is under
control, and the difference between that and choice. There is the phrase
"pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." I think that there is truth
in that, but I still feel that choosing to feel one may nmeans that you
have to ACT. That your actions have consequences that you cannot
control, a notion that paralyzes me. Can mindfulness help with that? If
so, how?

   > Happy New Year Ed,
> Propose another word in place of "mindfulness" is a very challenging
> task. Let me explain.
> In the practice and dealing with everyday life, we say "Be aware but
> attached to", "focus but not focusing", "observe but not observing",
> some of the terms we use while we translate from our Chinese text to
> English. In other words, "sync to the universal wisdom at every
> and not be attached to the meaning of the phenomena." is the phrase we
> need to represent with a single word.
> The most common general terms as a verb in the practice, we use are
> aware", "sense", "feel", etc. i.e. "sense our breathing", "feel the
> chakra". They are usually terms applying also to emotions, feelings as
> well as our general overall well being, physical and spiritual. We can
> not separate our "true feeling" from our body or mind.
> We are very careful not to consistently use the same word. Especially
> the practice to "notice" the conditions of our body, mind and spirit,
> could require different verb for a similar function. Chan teaching
> requires flexibility.
> The purpose of Chan wordings are nothing but to wake up the
> practitioner, and not to set a path or a rule to follow. After 5,000
> words, Diamond Sutra said only one thing, "Whatever you think it is,
> is not. It just is."
> Perhaps a lot of times, I am guilty in becoming lazy and just say,
> "Shut up, Sit down and Stop thinking."
> LOL.
   > > JM,
> >
> > What is your proposed definition of 'mindfulness'?
> >
> > --ED
     > > Thank you JDB. Indeed we also teach "emptiness of mind".
> >
> > Somehow the western Zen is stuck on the label of "mind" and would
> > let go. There is even a seminar about the small mind and big mind.
> > Though all journeys lead to the same place.
> >
> > "Mind" is too close to "thinking". It can be easily misunderstood
> > misinterpreted.
> >
> > We teach "empty your mind", "enhance your heart". And we continue to
> > say "because heart is where we could unify our body, mind and
> >
> > Somehow, unify our body to the same physical structure as the
> > is not emphasized in western Zen.‚ Most of the reading that I
> > encountered with focuses mainly on the mind and its awareness, not
> > the body and little on the spirit.‚ Though we constantly talked
> > body, mind and spirit, but in essence, they are one and
> > Just like the universe.
> >
> > In our school, awareness does not reside in the mind. Awareness is a
> > function of our spirit, which reside in our heart.‚ "Heart" is
> > the organic heart, but our "total well being", our "center" or
> > "ONE". Awareness enhancement helps us to be awakened to the Absolute
> > Awareness of the universe.
> >
> > This brings this post to another question. What does Zen say about
> > spirit? Our spiritual levels, our spiritual being, spiritual karma,
> > the sixth, seventh and eighth consciousness?
> >
> > After several years with this forum, I have read little about these.
> > In other words, to be enlightened, we need to surpass karmic
> > of body, mind and spirit. We need to work on all three.
> >
> > Otherwise, we are just imagining and hoping.
> >
> > On this New Year Day, I hope this post is not too objectionable to
> >
> > Happy New Year and thank you for your patience and understanding for
> > all the years.
> > JMJM
     > > On 12/31/2010 Rev. Joriki Dat Baker wrote:
> >> ‚
> >> Or the emptiness of mind.
> >> I wonder if something similar could be said about mindfulness.
> >> "Mindful" in the Western sense seems to be directing your attention
> >> in one direction, However, maybe a better translation is "mind
> >> fullness," as in you experience everything with the fullness of
> >> mind. Or am I way off here?

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