Noone has a right to a full server. But a right to at least have a chance to get something going. It doesn't even have to be fair, I never said that. Nobody expects that anyone can set up 40 servers and instantly have them populated 24/7. I don't have any expectations. I only know that I myself don't enjoy the offering of Valve's servers myself. Not in TF2 and especially not in CSGO. I've seen the value of community servers, I've done this for almost a decade now in various games. That's why I have an agency to keep community servers alive. AMXX and SM exist and have flourished for a reason. Heck, some of the people spearheading this drive are even working for Valve right now. Don't tell me that this is suddenly a worthless endeavour.
Why anyone would stand behind a decision that actively cuts down the available playerbase (for everyone, that includes *you*) is beyond me. In the long run this will hurt everyone. It's not just about new communities but also about new players. If new players never leave the QP, Valve-Only system, how are they going to find *your* server in the future I ask you. We already established ourselves. But I still don't want this to happen. Every single time this happens I hear the same arguments. "Why even have a server", "Only in it for the money", "Shut down everything". Well no. I have invested time and money to build a community. I never did it for making bank, only because I care for this game. In fact I haven't even taken donations for 3/4 of this communities TF2 engagement. That's the way I've done it for CS, for DoD, for Battlefield. We are just a dedicated lot of gamers, trying to make an enjoyable place for others that like this game. Only to then have even our peers happily jump on the hate train. Why? Why did *you* decide to build your community? I'm genuinely curious. Apparently there's absolutely no reason to do that. And just by the way: Neither am I a big dog or a newcomer. I'm in the happy middle spot. So no need to go at me for either reason. On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Gordon Reynolds <thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > "We" (the TF2 players) have enough servers as it is. > > There is no expectation that new servers have any "right" to a full and > active playerbase. Why would someone want to open a TF2 server if they > have: no players, no community, and in the face of thousands of viable, > ready to play in, servers? > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Valentin G. <nextra...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> It's not the servers (that already exist) are the problem. It's that >> the already existing playerbase is constantly reduced. >> >> I want servers to flourish by using what's available, not by cutting >> down large server owners. That's backwards logic. >> >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Nerdboy <nerdb...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should >> > scale back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. >> > >> > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay <mc...@doctormckay.com> wrote: >> >> So newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers with >> >> their one server? >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr. McKay >> >> www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Nerdboy <nerdb...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> An easy solution to allow newcomers to get more traffic would be to >> >>> reduce the number of servers you run. That way quickplay traffic is >> >>> distributed more evenly rather than "who bought the most rack space?" >> >>> >> >>> On 1/24/14, Valentin G. <nextra...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> > Then explain how should people remedy this situation? >> >>> > >> >>> > Not every community can retroactively join the master race and >> >>> > suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of >> thin >> >>> > air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So what >> >>> > if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are returning. >> >>> > In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still >> >>> > *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your >> server >> >>> > in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is not >> >>> > even the *chance* of them staying around. >> >>> > >> >>> > This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an >> >>> > experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, >> >>> > returning player base. Of course it would be great if players still >> >>> > went around the server browser and naturally found out about new >> >>> > servers and stayed there. Since that doesn't happen anymore, newer >> >>> > communities have to rely on quickplay. That's simply how it works. >> >>> > It's really great for all the people here that have a long history in >> >>> > their community and a stable and returning playerbase already. Not >> >>> > everyone can enjoy that, and you are trying to prevent them from even >> >>> > having the ability to achieve that. >> >>> > >> >>> > I really hope one day people get that into their thick heads. There >> >>> > are start-ups that haven't been around since the TF2 beta. They *can >> >>> > not* have as healthy of a playerbase as you already have. Don't talk >> >>> > them down because of that, and even applaud Valve when every chance >> of >> >>> > building up their community is ripped from their hands. >> >>> > >> >>> > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Gordon Reynolds >> >>> > <thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> Maybe there is a point to take from this. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Maybe the kind of people who played TF2 pre-F2P era, aren't the same >> >>> >> people >> >>> >> who want to play TF2 now? >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Demographics change, if you think the same type of people pick up >> TF2 >> >>> >> today >> >>> >> as the ones who paid money to pick it up pre-F2P, you might be in >> for >> >>> >> a >> >>> >> bit >> >>> >> of a shock. Or not, look at your numbers, 50% of your population is >> >>> >> just >> >>> >> there because that's where they ended up, they didn't choose to be >> on >> >>> >> your >> >>> >> server. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Doctor McKay < >> mc...@doctormckay.com> >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >> >>> >>> Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the help of >> >>> >>> Quickplay. They don't exist. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Dr. McKay >> >>> >>> www.doctormckay.com >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> >>> >>> thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% >> >>> >>> > quickplay >> >>> >>> > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that >> >>> >>> > might >> >>> >>> > be >> >>> >>> > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars >> >>> >>> > from >> >>> >>> > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), >> >>> >>> > because >> >>> >>> > of all your regulars? >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they >> >>> >>> > are >> >>> >>> on-, >> >>> >>> > and will never add your server to favorites as is? >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay >> >>> >>> > <mc...@doctormckay.com >> >>> > >> >>> >>> > wrote: >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> > > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and >> several >> >>> >>> others. >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what percent >> >>> >>> > > of >> >>> >>> > > my >> >>> >>> > > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly >> high: >> >>> >>> > > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > > I don't expect any more than 20% of Quickplay users to uncheck >> >>> >>> > > the >> >>> >>> > > "Official servers only" box. That means that I have lost around >> >>> >>> > > 40% >> >>> >>> > > of >> >>> >>> my >> >>> >>> > > traffic. My community is relatively popular, too. Smaller >> >>> >>> > > communities >> >>> >>> or >> >>> >>> > > communities that are just starting up will lose a lot more >> >>> >>> > > traffic >> >>> >>> than I >> >>> >>> > > will. >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > > Dr. McKay >> >>> >>> > > www.doctormckay.com >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Robert Paulson < >> >>> >>> thepauls...@gmail.com >> >>> >>> > > >wrote: >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > > > It's quite obvious really. Valve only makes features to >> benefit >> >>> >>> > > themselves >> >>> >>> > > > or players, and cl_connectmethod was at face value did not do >> >>> >>> > > > either >> >>> >>> > one. >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > > They don't care about server owners having this knowledge >> >>> >>> > > > unless >> >>> >>> > > > it >> >>> >>> > > > benefits them and didn't even bother to protect the convar >> from >> >>> >>> > spoofing >> >>> >>> > > by >> >>> >>> > > > a using 1 convar flag. >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > > Its main purpose was to stop server owners from complaining >> >>> >>> > > > about >> >>> >>> > > > all >> >>> >>> > the >> >>> >>> > > > restrictions placed on quickplay on the flawed assumption >> that >> >>> >>> > quickplay >> >>> >>> > > is >> >>> >>> > > > a tiny and unimportant part of your player base. >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Doctor McKay >> >>> >>> > > > <mc...@doctormckay.com >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> > > > wrote: >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > While I agree with what you are saying, what does >> >>> >>> > > > > cl_connectmethod >> >>> >>> > have >> >>> >>> > > > to >> >>> >>> > > > > do with any of this? >> >>> >>> > > > > On Jan 23, 2014 9:12 PM, "Robert Paulson" >> >>> >>> > > > > <thepauls...@gmail.com> >> >>> >>> > > wrote: >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > First they came for the custom attachments, and I did not >> >>> >>> > > > > > speak >> >>> >>> > out. >> >>> >>> > > > > > Because I did not use it. >> >>> >>> > > > > > Then they came for fast respawn, and I did not speak out. >> >>> >>> Because I >> >>> >>> > > did >> >>> >>> > > > > not >> >>> >>> > > > > > use it. >> >>> >>> > > > > > Then they came for increased slots, and I did not speak >> >>> >>> > > > > > out. >> >>> >>> > Because >> >>> >>> > > I >> >>> >>> > > > > did >> >>> >>> > > > > > not use it. >> >>> >>> > > > > > Then they came for the MOTD, and I did not speak out. >> >>> >>> > > > > > Because >> >>> >>> > > > > > it >> >>> >>> > > would >> >>> >>> > > > > hurt >> >>> >>> > > > > > others more than me. >> >>> >>> > > > > > Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak >> >>> >>> > > > > > for >> >>> >>> > > > > > me. >> >>> >>> > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > This is a repeat of the "Custom Tabs" fiasco. Except >> Valve >> >>> >>> probably >> >>> >>> > > > won't >> >>> >>> > > > > > remove it this time because they can wave the evidence >> that >> >>> >>> > > > > > a >> >>> >>> > > minority >> >>> >>> > > > of >> >>> >>> > > > > > players use quickplay, despite the fact that quickplay >> has >> >>> >>> > > > > > a >> >>> >>> > monopoly >> >>> >>> > > > on >> >>> >>> > > > > > new players and without them your server is dead. Your >> >>> current >> >>> >>> > > players >> >>> >>> > > > > > won't play TF2 forever. >> >>> >>> > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > I saw this coming a mile away when Valve released the >> >>> >>> > > cl_connectmethod >> >>> >>> > > > > > convar. As I have said time and time again, Valve has >> >>> >>> > > > > > obligations >> >>> >>> > to >> >>> >>> > > > > server >> >>> >>> > > > > > owners as well as players. We, or at least I, bought TF2 >> >>> >>> expecting >> >>> >>> > > not >> >>> >>> > > > > to >> >>> >>> > > > > > have our hosting abilities crippled so much. >> >>> >>> > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Doctor McKay < >> >>> >>> > mc...@doctormckay.com >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > wrote: >> >>> >>> > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > Why? >> >>> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > Adding a "Valve servers only" checkbox (that's checked >> by >> >>> >>> > default) >> >>> >>> > > is >> >>> >>> > > > > > going >> >>> >>> > > > > > > to hurt enough (and only those communities that are >> >>> >>> > > > > > > playing >> >>> >>> > > > > > > by >> >>> >>> > the >> >>> >>> > > > > rules; >> >>> >>> > > > > > > cheating communities will just steal *more* traffic >> from >> >>> the >> >>> >>> > > > legitimate >> >>> >>> > > > > > > communities). >> >>> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > It's now all but impossible to try to retain a client >> who >> >>> >>> joined >> >>> >>> > > via >> >>> >>> > > > > > > Quickplay (and those are the clients we *need* to >> >>> >>> > > > > > > retain). >> >>> >>> > > > > > > We >> >>> >>> > can't >> >>> >>> > > > > show >> >>> >>> > > > > > > them our website. We can't even allow them to use a >> menu >> >>> >>> > > > > > > to >> >>> >>> jump >> >>> >>> > to >> >>> >>> > > > > > another >> >>> >>> > > > > > > one of our servers anymore. >> >>> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > Please think about what you're doing. If your intention >> >>> >>> > > > > > > is >> >>> >>> > > > > > > to >> >>> >>> > harm >> >>> >>> > > > the >> >>> >>> > > > > > good >> >>> >>> > > > > > > communities, you're doing a fine job at it. >> >>> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > Dr. McKay >> >>> >>> > > > > > > www.doctormckay.com >> >>> >>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ >> >>> >>> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the >> >>> list >> >>> >>> > > > archives, >> >>> >>> > > > > > > please visit: >> >>> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >>> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > _______________________________________________ >> >>> >>> > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the >> >>> >>> > > > > > list >> >>> >>> > > archives, >> >>> >>> > > > > > please visit: >> >>> >>> > > > > > >> >>> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >>> >>> > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ >> >>> >>> > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the >> list >> >>> >>> > archives, >> >>> >>> > > > > please visit: >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > _______________________________________________ >> >>> >>> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >>> >>> archives, >> >>> >>> > > > please visit: >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ >> >>> >>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >>> >>> > > archives, >> >>> >>> > > please visit: >> >>> >>> > > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >>> archives, >> >>> >>> > please visit: >> >>> >>> > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >>> >>> archives, >> >>> >>> please visit: >> >>> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >> >>> >> please visit: >> >>> >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >>> > >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >> >>> > please visit: >> >>> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> >>> please visit: >> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> >> please visit: >> >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
