"If new players never leave the QP, Valve-Only system, how are they going to find *your* server in the future I ask you. "
They won't. This doesn't matter. I mean it matters to the server operator, but we are a very tiny fraction of the TF2 audience. If the players are happy hitting QP with the Valve-Only system, then really who am I to tell them they need to play on my server to enjoy the game even more? On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Valentin G. <nextra...@gmail.com> wrote: > Noone has a right to a full server. But a right to at least have a > chance to get something going. It doesn't even have to be fair, I > never said that. Nobody expects that anyone can set up 40 servers and > instantly have them populated 24/7. I don't have any expectations. I > only know that I myself don't enjoy the offering of Valve's servers > myself. Not in TF2 and especially not in CSGO. I've seen the value of > community servers, I've done this for almost a decade now in various > games. That's why I have an agency to keep community servers alive. > AMXX and SM exist and have flourished for a reason. Heck, some of the > people spearheading this drive are even working for Valve right now. > Don't tell me that this is suddenly a worthless endeavour. > > Why anyone would stand behind a decision that actively cuts down the > available playerbase (for everyone, that includes *you*) is beyond me. > In the long run this will hurt everyone. It's not just about new > communities but also about new players. If new players never leave the > QP, Valve-Only system, how are they going to find *your* server in the > future I ask you. We already established ourselves. But I still don't > want this to happen. > > Every single time this happens I hear the same arguments. "Why even > have a server", "Only in it for the money", "Shut down everything". > Well no. I have invested time and money to build a community. I never > did it for making bank, only because I care for this game. In fact I > haven't even taken donations for 3/4 of this communities TF2 > engagement. That's the way I've done it for CS, for DoD, for > Battlefield. We are just a dedicated lot of gamers, trying to make an > enjoyable place for others that like this game. Only to then have even > our peers happily jump on the hate train. Why? > > Why did *you* decide to build your community? I'm genuinely curious. > Apparently there's absolutely no reason to do that. > > > And just by the way: Neither am I a big dog or a newcomer. I'm in the > happy middle spot. So no need to go at me for either reason. > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Gordon Reynolds > <thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > > "We" (the TF2 players) have enough servers as it is. > > > > There is no expectation that new servers have any "right" to a full and > > active playerbase. Why would someone want to open a TF2 server if they > > have: no players, no community, and in the face of thousands of viable, > > ready to play in, servers? > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Valentin G. <nextra...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> It's not the servers (that already exist) are the problem. It's that > >> the already existing playerbase is constantly reduced. > >> > >> I want servers to flourish by using what's available, not by cutting > >> down large server owners. That's backwards logic. > >> > >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Nerdboy <nerdb...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should > >> > scale back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. > >> > > >> > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay <mc...@doctormckay.com> wrote: > >> >> So newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers > with > >> >> their one server? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Dr. McKay > >> >> www.doctormckay.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Nerdboy <nerdb...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> An easy solution to allow newcomers to get more traffic would be to > >> >>> reduce the number of servers you run. That way quickplay traffic is > >> >>> distributed more evenly rather than "who bought the most rack > space?" > >> >>> > >> >>> On 1/24/14, Valentin G. <nextra...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> > Then explain how should people remedy this situation? > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Not every community can retroactively join the master race and > >> >>> > suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of > >> thin > >> >>> > air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So > what > >> >>> > if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are > returning. > >> >>> > In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still > >> >>> > *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your > >> server > >> >>> > in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is > not > >> >>> > even the *chance* of them staying around. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an > >> >>> > experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, > >> >>> > returning player base. Of course it would be great if players > still > >> >>> > went around the server browser and naturally found out about new > >> >>> > servers and stayed there. Since that doesn't happen anymore, newer > >> >>> > communities have to rely on quickplay. That's simply how it works. > >> >>> > It's really great for all the people here that have a long > history in > >> >>> > their community and a stable and returning playerbase already. Not > >> >>> > everyone can enjoy that, and you are trying to prevent them from > even > >> >>> > having the ability to achieve that. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > I really hope one day people get that into their thick heads. > There > >> >>> > are start-ups that haven't been around since the TF2 beta. They > *can > >> >>> > not* have as healthy of a playerbase as you already have. Don't > talk > >> >>> > them down because of that, and even applaud Valve when every > chance > >> of > >> >>> > building up their community is ripped from their hands. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Gordon Reynolds > >> >>> > <thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> >> Maybe there is a point to take from this. > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> Maybe the kind of people who played TF2 pre-F2P era, aren't the > same > >> >>> >> people > >> >>> >> who want to play TF2 now? > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> Demographics change, if you think the same type of people pick up > >> TF2 > >> >>> >> today > >> >>> >> as the ones who paid money to pick it up pre-F2P, you might be in > >> for > >> >>> >> a > >> >>> >> bit > >> >>> >> of a shock. Or not, look at your numbers, 50% of your population > is > >> >>> >> just > >> >>> >> there because that's where they ended up, they didn't choose to > be > >> on > >> >>> >> your > >> >>> >> server. > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Doctor McKay < > >> mc...@doctormckay.com> > >> >>> >> wrote: > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >>> Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the > help of > >> >>> >>> Quickplay. They don't exist. > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> Dr. McKay > >> >>> >>> www.doctormckay.com > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >> >>> >>> thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get > 47% > >> >>> >>> > quickplay > >> >>> >>> > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server > that > >> >>> >>> > might > >> >>> >>> > be > >> >>> >>> > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled > regulars > >> >>> >>> > from > >> >>> >>> > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during > peak), > >> >>> >>> > because > >> >>> >>> > of all your regulars? > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server > they > >> >>> >>> > are > >> >>> >>> on-, > >> >>> >>> > and will never add your server to favorites as is? > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay > >> >>> >>> > <mc...@doctormckay.com > >> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > wrote: > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and > >> several > >> >>> >>> others. > >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what > percent > >> >>> >>> > > of > >> >>> >>> > > my > >> >>> >>> > > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly > >> high: > >> >>> >>> > > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png > >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > I don't expect any more than 20% of Quickplay users to > uncheck > >> >>> >>> > > the > >> >>> >>> > > "Official servers only" box. That means that I have lost > around > >> >>> >>> > > 40% > >> >>> >>> > > of > >> >>> >>> my > >> >>> >>> > > traffic. My community is relatively popular, too. Smaller > >> >>> >>> > > communities > >> >>> >>> or > >> >>> >>> > > communities that are just starting up will lose a lot more > >> >>> >>> > > traffic > >> >>> >>> than I > >> >>> >>> > > will. > >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > Dr. McKay > >> >>> >>> > > www.doctormckay.com > >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Robert Paulson < > >> >>> >>> thepauls...@gmail.com > >> >>> >>> > > >wrote: > >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > > > It's quite obvious really. Valve only makes features to > >> benefit > >> >>> >>> > > themselves > >> >>> >>> > > > or players, and cl_connectmethod was at face value did > not do > >> >>> >>> > > > either > >> >>> >>> > one. > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > They don't care about server owners having this knowledge > >> >>> >>> > > > unless > >> >>> >>> > > > it > >> >>> >>> > > > benefits them and didn't even bother to protect the convar > >> from > >> >>> >>> > spoofing > >> >>> >>> > > by > >> >>> >>> > > > a using 1 convar flag. > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > Its main purpose was to stop server owners from > complaining > >> >>> >>> > > > about > >> >>> >>> > > > all > >> >>> >>> > the > >> >>> >>> > > > restrictions placed on quickplay on the flawed assumption > >> that > >> >>> >>> > quickplay > >> >>> >>> > > is > >> >>> >>> > > > a tiny and unimportant part of your player base. > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Doctor McKay > >> >>> >>> > > > <mc...@doctormckay.com > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> > > > wrote: > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > While I agree with what you are saying, what does > >> >>> >>> > > > > cl_connectmethod > >> >>> >>> > have > >> >>> >>> > > > to > >> >>> >>> > > > > do with any of this? > >> >>> >>> > > > > On Jan 23, 2014 9:12 PM, "Robert Paulson" > >> >>> >>> > > > > <thepauls...@gmail.com> > >> >>> >>> > > wrote: > >> >>> >>> > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > First they came for the custom attachments, and I did > not > >> >>> >>> > > > > > speak > >> >>> >>> > out. > >> >>> >>> > > > > > Because I did not use it. > >> >>> >>> > > > > > Then they came for fast respawn, and I did not speak > out. > >> >>> >>> Because I > >> >>> >>> > > did > >> >>> >>> > > > > not > >> >>> >>> > > > > > use it. > >> >>> >>> > > > > > Then they came for increased slots, and I did not > speak > >> >>> >>> > > > > > out. > >> >>> >>> > Because > >> >>> >>> > > I > >> >>> >>> > > > > did > >> >>> >>> > > > > > not use it. > >> >>> >>> > > > > > Then they came for the MOTD, and I did not speak out. > >> >>> >>> > > > > > Because > >> >>> >>> > > > > > it > >> >>> >>> > > would > >> >>> >>> > > > > hurt > >> >>> >>> > > > > > others more than me. > >> >>> >>> > > > > > Then they came for me, and there was no one left to > speak > >> >>> >>> > > > > > for > >> >>> >>> > > > > > me. > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > This is a repeat of the "Custom Tabs" fiasco. Except > >> Valve > >> >>> >>> probably > >> >>> >>> > > > won't > >> >>> >>> > > > > > remove it this time because they can wave the evidence > >> that > >> >>> >>> > > > > > a > >> >>> >>> > > minority > >> >>> >>> > > > of > >> >>> >>> > > > > > players use quickplay, despite the fact that quickplay > >> has > >> >>> >>> > > > > > a > >> >>> >>> > monopoly > >> >>> >>> > > > on > >> >>> >>> > > > > > new players and without them your server is dead. Your > >> >>> current > >> >>> >>> > > players > >> >>> >>> > > > > > won't play TF2 forever. > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > I saw this coming a mile away when Valve released the > >> >>> >>> > > cl_connectmethod > >> >>> >>> > > > > > convar. As I have said time and time again, Valve has > >> >>> >>> > > > > > obligations > >> >>> >>> > to > >> >>> >>> > > > > server > >> >>> >>> > > > > > owners as well as players. We, or at least I, bought > TF2 > >> >>> >>> expecting > >> >>> >>> > > not > >> >>> >>> > > > > to > >> >>> >>> > > > > > have our hosting abilities crippled so much. > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Doctor McKay < > >> >>> >>> > mc...@doctormckay.com > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > wrote: > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > Why? > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > Adding a "Valve servers only" checkbox (that's > checked > >> by > >> >>> >>> > default) > >> >>> >>> > > is > >> >>> >>> > > > > > going > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > to hurt enough (and only those communities that are > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > playing > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > by > >> >>> >>> > the > >> >>> >>> > > > > rules; > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > cheating communities will just steal *more* traffic > >> from > >> >>> the > >> >>> >>> > > > legitimate > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > communities). > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > It's now all but impossible to try to retain a > client > >> who > >> >>> >>> joined > >> >>> >>> > > via > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > Quickplay (and those are the clients we *need* to > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > retain). > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > We > >> >>> >>> > can't > >> >>> >>> > > > > show > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > them our website. We can't even allow them to use a > >> menu > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > to > >> >>> >>> jump > >> >>> >>> > to > >> >>> >>> > > > > > another > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > one of our servers anymore. > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > Please think about what you're doing. If your > intention > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > is > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > to > >> >>> >>> > harm > >> >>> >>> > > > the > >> >>> >>> > > > > > good > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > communities, you're doing a fine job at it. > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > Dr. McKay > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > www.doctormckay.com > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view > the > >> >>> list > >> >>> >>> > > > archives, > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > please visit: > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >>> > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view > the > >> >>> >>> > > > > > list > >> >>> >>> > > archives, > >> >>> >>> > > > > > please visit: > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> >>> >>> > > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >>> > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the > >> list > >> >>> >>> > archives, > >> >>> >>> > > > > please visit: > >> >>> >>> > > > > > >> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> >>> >>> > > > > > >> >>> >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >>> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the > list > >> >>> >>> archives, > >> >>> >>> > > > please visit: > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> >>> >>> > > > > >> >>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>> >>> > > archives, > >> >>> >>> > > please visit: > >> >>> >>> > > > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> >>> >>> > > > >> >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>> archives, > >> >>> >>> > please visit: > >> >>> >>> > > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> >>> >>> > > >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>> >>> archives, > >> >>> >>> please visit: > >> >>> >>> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> >>> >>> > >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> archives, > >> >>> >> please visit: > >> >>> >> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> >>> > > >> >>> > _______________________________________________ > >> >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> archives, > >> >>> > please visit: > >> >>> > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >> >>> please visit: > >> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> >>> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >> >> please visit: > >> >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
