[BAROQUE-LUTE] All six Dresden Weiss volumes are online
Dear friends, now also the 6th volume of the Dresden Weiss is online, so it is complete now. Here are again all of the links - this time as PURLs (permanent URL): http://digital.slub-dresden.de/id508190533 http://digital.slub-dresden.de/id393414191 http://digital.slub-dresden.de/id508176239 http://digital.slub-dresden.de/id508402794 http://digital.slub-dresden.de/id508404223 http://digital.slub-dresden.de/id508405505 You also can access these links via: http://mss.slweiss.de It is possible to download them as pdf, or as single pictures (in a slightly better resolution). Best regards Markus -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] 5 of the 6 Dresden Weiss volumes are online now
Dear friends, today I found out, that 5 of the 6 Dresden volumes are online now. http://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/276092 http://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/92747 http://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/276123 http://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/276145 http://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/276148 Best regards Markus -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Perrine 1680
Hi Anders, it can be found on imslp: https://imslp.org/wiki/Livre_de_Musique_pour_le_Lut_(Perrine) Best regards Markus Am 25.10.18 um 09:43 schrieb Anders Ericson: Hi. I am looking for the facsimile of Perrine 1680. Anyone has it lying around or knows a digital resource? All the best! -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] One of the Paris Weiss manuscripts is online
Hello, more or less by chance I found out, that one of the Paris Weiss manuscripts is online: F-Pn Rés. Vma ms. 1213 (olim: Bibl. Mad. Thibault) Weiss à Rome (= F-PnThI) https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10020231q As always, the link also is also accessible through http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1=ms=F-PnThI=eng Best regards Markus -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: London Weiss manuscript is online
Thank you, dear David, indeed it works. But the pictures seem to have the size of the jpegs: 1024x864. Best regards Markus Am 20.06.2018 um 17:36 schrieb David Smith: I just downloaded the entire manuscript with no problem. Images appear to be 4959x7017 (at least on the one I extracted from the PDF. It appears they fixed their download problem. David -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu On Behalf Of Markus Lutz Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 2:49 AM To: Barocklautenliste Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] London Weiss manuscript is online Dear members of the baroque lute list, Tim Crawford has written, that now the London Weiss manuscript is online. It can be viewed and also be downloaded via the following link: http://access.bl.uk/item/viewer/ark:/81055/vdc_100059002407.0x01 It seems as if only downloading single jpgs works (at least for me). It is a very good scan, although the given resolution isn't that detailed. But you can look online into the pages in a very high resolution! Best regards Markus -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: London Weiss manuscript is online
That's my opinion also. Tim promised to contact the library ;-). Best regards Markus Am 20.06.2018 um 13:03 schrieb Peter Steur: --Boundary-00=_M2CMIXJK8ID3LVC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I get the same error message, no matter how many pages I choose - even with only 6 pages! Seems to be a procedural error ... Peter ---Messaggio originale--- Da: G. C. Data: 20/06/2018 12:53:58 A: Barocklautenliste Oggetto: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: London Weiss manuscript is online I get "error retrieving pdf" :( On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Markus Lutz <[1]mar...@gmlutz.de> wrote: Dear Matthew, did that work for you? Tim and also me tested it, and it didn't work. But it could be possible, that they changed it already - what would be very good! Best regards Markus Am 20.06.2018 um 12:41 schrieb Matthew Daillie: Thanks Markus, You can download all the pages by clicking on the radio button next to 'Select some or all pages for download' in the Download dialogue box (accessible through button on bottom left of page) and then click the 'Select All' button on the thumbnail page which is opened. Best, Matthew On 20/06/2018 11:48, Markus Lutz wrote: Dear members of the baroque lute list, Tim Crawford has written, that now the London Weiss manuscript is online. It can be viewed and also be downloaded via the following link: [2]http://access.bl.uk/item/viewer/ark:/81055/vdc_100059002407. 0x01 It seems as if only downloading single jpgs works (at least for me). It is a very good scan, although the given resolution isn't that detailed. But you can look online into the pages in a very high resolution! Best regards Markus To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz SchulstraÃe 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail [4]mar...@gmlutz.de -- References 1. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de 2. http://access.bl.uk/item/viewer/ark:/81055/vdc_100059002407.0x01 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: London Weiss manuscript is online
Dear Matthew, did that work for you? Tim and also me tested it, and it didn't work. But it could be possible, that they changed it already - what would be very good! Best regards Markus Am 20.06.2018 um 12:41 schrieb Matthew Daillie: Thanks Markus, You can download all the pages by clicking on the radio button next to 'Select some or all pages for download' in the Download dialogue box (accessible through button on bottom left of page) and then click the 'Select All' button on the thumbnail page which is opened. Best, Matthew On 20/06/2018 11:48, Markus Lutz wrote: Dear members of the baroque lute list, Tim Crawford has written, that now the London Weiss manuscript is online. It can be viewed and also be downloaded via the following link: http://access.bl.uk/item/viewer/ark:/81055/vdc_100059002407.0x01 It seems as if only downloading single jpgs works (at least for me). It is a very good scan, although the given resolution isn't that detailed. But you can look online into the pages in a very high resolution! Best regards Markus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] London Weiss manuscript is online
Dear members of the baroque lute list, Tim Crawford has written, that now the London Weiss manuscript is online. It can be viewed and also be downloaded via the following link: http://access.bl.uk/item/viewer/ark:/81055/vdc_100059002407.0x01 It seems as if only downloading single jpgs works (at least for me). It is a very good scan, although the given resolution isn't that detailed. But you can look online into the pages in a very high resolution! Best regards Markus -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Johann Melchior Pichler (1695-?1780?)
As we will give a short notice in the forthcoming Lauten-Info, Peter Király has proposed to me, that I should publish the direct link of the pdf. Indeed that seems to be better. The direct link to the PDF is: http://www.cini.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Studi-Vivaldiani-17-2017.pdf And indeed - it as a really impressive research! Best regards Markus Am 16.03.2018 um 21:57 schrieb Stephan Olbertz: It took me a while to realize that there is a download link on the page What an article, I'm deeply impressed! The amount and depth of archival studies involved is totally crazy! Now, who wants to do a complete edition of Johann Melchior Pichler's lute works? The time is ripe :-) Regards Stephan -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von Markus Lutz Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. März 2018 08:56 An: Barocklautenliste; Tim Crawford Betreff: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Johann Melchior Pichler (1695-?1780?) Dear friends, yesterday the substantial article of Johannes Agustsson on Joseph Johann Adam von Liechtenstein was published. This noble man was not only a patron of Vivaldi, but he also employed a composer and musician, whose works are very widely known also in the lute world: Johann Melchior Pichler (1695-1780?). He most probably is 'our' Pichler. Also Agustsson mentions Johann Georg Orschler (Orsler), of whom we have a work with lute in Haslemere: http://www.cini.it/en/publications/studi-vivaldiani-17 (in English). Herzliche Grüße Markus -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Johann Melchior Pichler (1695-?1780?)
Dear friends, yesterday the substantial article of Johannes Agustsson on Joseph Johann Adam von Liechtenstein was published. This noble man was not only a patron of Vivaldi, but he also employed a composer and musician, whose works are very widely known also in the lute world: Johann Melchior Pichler (1695-1780?). He most probably is 'our' Pichler. Also Agustsson mentions Johann Georg Orschler (Orsler), of whom we have a work with lute in Haslemere: http://www.cini.it/en/publications/studi-vivaldiani-17 (in English). Herzliche Grüße Markus -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Menuett WeissSW 4,5 - Reusner ensemble works
Hello, in the new Lauteninfo of the Deutsche Lautengesellschaft, that is about to be sent to the members, I publish about some things I found in the past months. The most exciting finding for me was the fact, that a Menuet by Silvius Leopold Weiss turned out to be the intabulation of the final choir of an opera by Domenico Scarlatti (Lieto giorno from Tolomeo e Alessandro). Also I found some more lute concordances to the Reusner ensemble works (Taffel=Erlustigung) - as far as I knew there had been only one before (the courante in a). 3. Courante in a = Erfreuliche Lautenlust, p. 13. 29. Allemande in Bb = Neue Lautenfrüchte, S. 6, 2. St. (further Concordance beside others: S-Klm21072 / 52v) 30. Courant in Bb = S-Klm21068 / 12r and S-Klm21072 / 53r 31. Saraband in Bb = autogr. addition in the Berlin exemplar of the Lautenfrüchte, rear side of p. 7 33. Gigue in Bb = ebd., rear side of p. 6 56. Ballo in A = Aire PL-Wu2008 / 126, PL-Wu2009 / 183, Gavotte PL-Wn396 / 240v Both scores I have set in musescore, which now (2.1) supports the bourdon strings of lute instruments. You can see both scores online: https://musescore.com/user/4275446/scores/3856566 (Weiss-Scarlatti) https://musescore.com/user/4275446/scores/3857006 (Reusner) Best regards Markus -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Falckenhagen Op. 3
Dear Arthur, thank you very much for your list of Falckenhagen's works. Indeed the matter is very confusing, as there are many historical anouncements in newspapers then (of which I don't have copies; J. Domning reports them) and the title page of Opera Nuovo doesn't give any opus number. Anyway I think, that it is possible, even probable, that the Opera Nuovo are the same as Opera IV, as they bear a very low plate number of Haffner. The have the III, as you also point out. This is even more probable, because of the fact - I hope not to have missed a thing -, that no other ensemble works beside op. III+IV had been announced. Op. 5 is a missing print of sonatas for solo lute and doesn't have to do anything with Opera nuovo (to correct a misleading sentence by myself, which also might have increased the confusion). Best regards Markus Am 09.05.2015 um 00:39 schrieb AJN: Dear Markus and Peter, Perhaps I might belatedly add some additional information from a source I should have consulted when we discussed these works, Peter. It is a bit confusing, and even expert music catalogers and bibliographers have been lead astray. Beginning in the 16th century and for many centuries thereafter Leipzig hosted an Easter book fair. For each year a published catalog listed the new works and revised works, including music, which were available for purchase from dealers at the fair. The catalogs are a valuable bibliographical tool for matters such as ours. For nearly a century, from 1664 until 1759, the Leipzig firm of Johann Gross (and heirs) published them: //*Catalogus universalis, hoc est, designatio omnium librorum . . . vel novi vel emendatieres et auctiores prodierunt*\\ Indicated below with Gr plus year. In catalogs from 1736, 1738 and 1743, the titles of eight works by Falckenhagen are listed, five with opus numbers: [Op. 1] Sonate [6] a Liuto solo . . . dedicate . . . Federica Sofia Villemina,Margravia di Brandenburgo. Opera prima. .. fol. NA 1/4rnberg: Haffner. Gr 1743 RISM F71: copies at B-Bc, D-Rp, D-LEm, GBaLbm [Op. 2] Sei Partite a Liuto solo. Opera seconda. fol. kosten 2 Th. NA 1/4rnberg: Haffner. Gr 1743 RISM F72: copies at B-Bc, DaBds, GB-Lbm [Op. 3] Sei Concerti a Liuto, Traverso [A^2] OboA [A^2] Violino Violoncello . . . Opera terza. NA 1/4rnberg: Haffner. Gr 1743 RISM F73a-asupplement F72a: plate no. I: copy of lute part only at PL-Wu. [Op. 4] [Sei] Concerti a Liuto, Traverso [A^2] OboA Violoncello . . . Opera quarta. NA 1/4rnberg: Haffner. Gr 1743 No copy known to survive. But we now know it existed at one time, and maybe . . . [Op. 5] [Sei] Sonatine da Camera a Liuto solo. Opera quinta. NA 1/4rnberg: Haffner. Gr 1743 No copy known to survive. [Op. nuova] [Sei] Concerti a Liuto, Traverso OboA A^2 Violino Violoncello . . . Opera nvova dedicati a Sua Altezza Serenissima . . . Ernesto Avgvsto, Duca di Sassonia, . . . Duca regnante du Sassonia-Weimar. NA 1/4rnberg:Haffner. Gr deest; RISM F73, plate no. III (ca. 1743): unique copy from DaWRtl, now at DaWRz (RISM mistakenly cites a copy at PL-Wu; that print is not the same. It=Opera terza, above). This copy from the private Thurn und Taxis Hofbibliothek, Regensberg The card catalogue at WRz gives the full title and the cataloger cites cross references including a Uniform Title: Trios, Lt Ob Vc, Op. 4. This croass reference seems to be the reason some modern editions (including our Joachim's Gesamptausgabe) cite this print as Op. 4 (Opera IV), although no where in the print itself is it so designated. It remains improbable that a copy of Opera quarta was available for comparison. That is, Op. 4 seems to be a music cataloger's addition. The plate number (III) is also sometimes mistaken as an opus number,e.g. RISM F73 (above) and New Grove which give Op. 3. The g minor concerto (No. 5) is rehearsed on You Tube by John Schneiderman, An Evening with Wilhelmine (Sofia Wilhelmine of Brandenburg, Fredrickthe Great's sister and Falckenhagen's first patroness.) The opera nuova concertos are sometimes called flute concerti in modern scores and CDs. The other works are [Sei] Sonate di Liuto solo Gr 1736; La premier douzaine des Menuets pour le Lut Gr 1738; Sonate del Liuto solo (Vienna) Gr 1748 Not listed is Erstes Dutzend . . . Geistlicher-GesACURnge (Haffner pl. no. XXII, 1746). RISM F 74. Copies at B-Bc, GB-Lbl and (not listed in RISM) US-Wc. Arthur On 05/02/15, Markus Lutz[1]mar...@gmlutz.de wrote: Hi Peter, op. IV has survived actually (from Jochen Domnings page: Op. IV, Sei Concerti, gewidmet Herzog Ernst August von Weimar (Haffner, Druck Nr. III.) Weimar
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Falckenhagen Op. 3
which give Op. 3. The g minor concerto (No. 5) is rehearsed on You Tube by John Schneiderman, An Evening with Wilhelmine (Sofia Wilhelmine of Brandenburg, Fredrickthe Great's sister and Falckenhagen's first patroness.) The opera nuova concertos are sometimes called flute concerti in modern scores and CDs. The other works are [Sei] Sonate di Liuto solo ; La premier douzaine des Menuets pour le Lut ; Sonate del Liuto solo (Vienna) Not listed is Erstes Dutzend . . . Geistlicher-GesACURnge (Haffner pl. no. XXII, 1746). RISM F 74. Copies at B-Bc, GB-Lbl and (not listed in RISM) US-Wc. Arthur On 05/02/15, Markus Lutz[1]mar...@gmlutz.de javascript:return wrote: Hi Peter, op. IV has survived actually (from Jochen Domnings page: Op. IV, Sei Concerti, gewidmet Herzog Ernst August von Weimar (Haffner, Druck Nr. III.) Weimar, Zentralbibliothek der Deutschen Klassik, M 8 27 a+b Op. IV are 6 concertos with flute/violin and basso (all parts available at Trekel Musik ) Probably the opera nuova is meant to be the same as Op. V, which we don't have. Best regards Markus Am 02.05.2015 um 16:27 schrieb Peter Danner: Hi Chris Having written the liner notes for John Schneiderman's recording of Falckenhagen's opera nova (a CD apparently never released), and having discussed the matter in detail with Arthur Ness and others, I fear only the lute part to Op. 3 survives. Unfortunate. So much of Falckenhagen's music seems to be lost. Whether or not opera nuova is identical to a cataloged op. IV (as Joachim Domning claims), remains to be seen, depending on actually finding a copy of op. IV. I look forward to receiving your new CD, Chris. Peter Danner To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstrai? 1/2e 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail [3]mar...@gmlutz.de javascript:return References 1. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de javascript:return 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/ 3. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de javascript:return -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de javascript:return -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Falckenhagen Op.3 parts
Hello Chris, unfortunately, as far as I know, these parts didn't survive. The lute part can be found online in the Warsaw library: http://fbc.pionier.net.pl/id/oai:ebuw.uw.edu.pl:109222 There (and as I fear nowhere else) are no otehr parts. Best regards Markus Am 02.05.2015 um 15:55 schrieb Christopher Wilke: Hello Lutenists, Does anyone know if the traverso/violin and bass parts survive for Falckenhagen's Op. 3 concerti? If so, are they available from a library online?I have the lute part. Thanks! Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Falckenhagen Op. 3
Hi Peter, op. IV has survived actually (from Jochen Domnings page: Op. IV, Sei Concerti, gewidmet Herzog Ernst August von Weimar (Haffner, Druck Nr. III.) Weimar, Zentralbibliothek der Deutschen Klassik, M 8 27 a+b Op. IV are 6 concertos with flute/violin and basso (all parts available at Trekel Musik ) Probably the opera nuova is meant to be the same as Op. V, which we don't have. Best regards Markus Am 02.05.2015 um 16:27 schrieb Peter Danner: Hi Chris Having written the liner notes for John Schneiderman's recording of Falckenhagen's opera nova (a CD apparently never released), and having discussed the matter in detail with Arthur Ness and others, I fear only the lute part to Op. 3 survives. Unfortunate. So much of Falckenhagen's music seems to be lost. Whether or not opera nuova is identical to a cataloged op. IV (as Joachim Domning claims), remains to be seen, depending on actually finding a copy of op. IV. I look forward to receiving your new CD, Chris. Peter Danner To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ristori / Weiss. Facts?
Hello David, in the Staatshandbuch from 1735 Ristori is mentioned next to Chamber-Lutenist Silvius Leopold Weiss as Chamber-Organist. They played in the same orchestra, so probably / for sure Silvius Leopold Weiss played the theorbo part. Best regards Markus Am 02.03.2015 um 09:49 schrieb David van Ooijen: Coming weekend I'm to play Divoti Affetti alla Passione di Nostro Signore by Giovanni Alberto Ristori. I've been given a figured bass that is marked theorbe/organo. Ristori worked in Dresden at the time Weiss was there too. Are there any facts connecting the two? David *** David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** -- References 1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The Grüssau manuscript collection (including the Parties for 2 baroque lutes)
Dear lute-friends, dear Luca, and also you will find (and would have find ;-) ) the link on the baroque lute manuscripts page of Peter Steur and me, where we also include all official links on online manuscripts: http://mss.lute.de/ And for the 2 duo manuscripts in Warsaw: http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=PL-Wu2001alang=eng http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=PL-Wu2001blang=eng Best regards Markus Am 24.08.2014 um 11:30 schrieb Luca Manassero: Dear Kakinami-san, thank you! I am guilty to have forgotten to check your greatly maintained list first. All the best, Luca T.Kakinami on 24/08/14 04:07 wrote: Hello Luca and List, About works of Gruessau, Uniwersity of Warsaw Library's original site is, [1]http://ebuw.uw.edu.pl/dlibra/results?action=SearchActionskipSearch=truemdi rids=1server%3Atype=bothtempQueryType=-3encodelseisExpandable=onisRe mote=offroleId=-3queryType=-3dirids=1rootid=query=Gr%C3%BCssaulocalQue ryType=-3remoteQueryType=-2 or my site, [2]http://kakitoshilute.blogspot.jp/2014/03/biblioteka-uniwersytetu-warszawskie go.html ** Toshiaki Kakinami E-mail : [3]tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp Blog: [4]http://kakitoshilute.blogspot.com/ Facebook: [5]https://www.facebook.com/kakinami.toshiaki ** -Original Message- From: [6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[7]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Beha lf Of Luca Manassero Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:13 PM To: [8]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] The Gruessau manuscript collection (including the Parties for 2 baroque lutes) Dear List, since many years I was looking for the Parties `a deux Luths that I had heard in a very dated recording of Narciso Yepes and Godelieve Monden. I had then learned that the music came from manuscript PL - Wu RM 4135, but the only way to find it had been to order the (partial) edition for two baroque lutes (11 course) edited by Gusta Goldschmidt back in 1990 for the Dutch Lute Society ([1][9]http://www.nederlandseluitvereniging.nl/). Today I (finally!) found the fac-simile on the web: in fact the whole manuscripts collection from the Gruessau Abbey (today Krzeszow), now held at the Warsaw University Library, is available at this address: [2][10]http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/. The two books of the Parties `a deux Luths (which include two transcriptions of Parties of Mr. Melante, possibly Georg Philipp Telemann) can then be downloaded at: - (1st lute) [3][11]http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/Baroque_lute/Mf%202001a%20RM%20413 5a.pdf - (2nd lute) [4][12]http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/Baroque_lute/Mf%202001b%20RM%20413 5b.pdf In case you'd like to learn a bit more about the Gruessau (Krzeszow) Mss. collection, I'd suggest a recent article by Tomasz Jez, Institute of Musicology, University of Warsaw, freely available on academia.edu ([5][13]http://www.academia.edu/1439977/Some_Remarks_About_the_Provenance_o f_the_Lute_Tablatures_from_Grussau_Krzeszow) Have a great weekend, Luca References 1. [14]http://www.nederlandseluitvereniging.nl/ 2. [15]http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/ 3. [16]http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/Baroque_lute/Mf%202001a%20RM%204135a.pdf 4. [17]http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/Baroque_lute/Mf%202001b%20RM%204135b.pdf 5. [18]http://www.academia.edu/1439977/Some_Remarks_About_the_Provenance_of_the_Lut e_Tablatures_from_Grussau_Krzeszow To get on or off this list see list information at [19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html References 1. http://ebuw.uw.edu.pl/dlibra/results?action=SearchActionskipSearch=truemdi 2. http://kakitoshilute.blogspot.jp/2014/03/biblioteka-uniwersytetu-warszawskie 3. mailto:tk...@orchid.plala.or.jp 4. http://kakitoshilute.blogspot.com/ 5. https://www.facebook.com/kakinami.toshiaki 6. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. mailto:l...@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. http://www.nederlandseluitvereniging.nl/ 10. http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/ 11. http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/Baroque_lute/Mf%202001a%20RM%20413 12. http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/Baroque_lute/Mf%202001b%20RM%20413 13. http://www.academia.edu/1439977/Some_Remarks_About_the_Provenance_o 14. http://www.nederlandseluitvereniging.nl/ 15. http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/ 16. http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/Baroque_lute/Mf%202001a%20RM%204135a.pdf 17. http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/Baroque_lute/Mf%202001b%20RM%204135b.pdf 18. http://www.academia.edu/1439977/Some_Remarks_About_the_Provenance_of_the_Lut 19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tablature
Hello friends, you could also search for Tomb in title and Vis in composer: http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msstitle=Tombcomp=Vis Then you only have 5 pieces. The search always is case sensitive, so you will have different results with tomb and Tomb, but you could also search for ombeau. All of the Fields look for one phrase, so you cannot combine two words at the moment (I could change that, maybe later ..). Signature always begins at the beginning of the signature, so you can look for the manuscripts in one country, f.i. F- or CZ-, or in a library or manuscript. Sometimes it is necessary to try out different things to have the wanted result, but I think it is possible to find nearly everything very quickly, if you know what to do. Best regards Markus Am 29.04.2014 20:07, schrieb Bernd Haegemann: Chers amis, if you set the filter like this http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?lang=deuid=1exFilter=1type=mssst=0title=Moutonkey=msnam=comp=Vis%E9e you find that the piece is in the Saizenay ms. on page 76. It's in e minor! Only 236 pieces in the repertoire are in e-minor. Then we go to this nice website: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/links/Digital-Facsimiles.html where we find to our joy and excitement that the library in Besancon has made the effort to digititatilizizize the ms: http://culture.besancon.fr/ark:/48565/a011284026247S0XA9H/1/1 And there we go! B On 29.04.2014 19:38, James Jackson wrote: Hi all, Can anyone point me in the direction of the tablature forA Tombeau De Mouton by De Visee for baroque lute? I would be most grateful :) Many thanks, James -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dresden Manuscript, one volume is online
These are the Sonatas WeissSW 37+38+39+40 in C major and WeissSW 41+42+29+43 in a minor. It is part of Weiss Sämtliche Werke Vol. 5, Baerenreiter edition part I of Dresden (Sonatas in F,d,C,a). Best regards Markus Am 05.02.2014 12:30, schrieb Taco Walstra: On 02/03/2014 05:56 PM, Markus Lutz wrote: Hi, are these the sonatas nr 47 etc. as published in the super expensive baerenreiter edition part II of the dresden music? Or is this a part which is published in the first baerenreiter edition? Didn't compare it yet, but from a quick view it seemed a familiar score. best Taco Hello, it seems as if now the second volume of the Dresden Weiss manuscript is online on the SLUB homepage - the sonatas in C major and a minor: http://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/92747 Best regards Markus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Dresden Manuscript, one volume is online
Hello, it seems as if now the second volume of the Dresden Weiss manuscript is online on the SLUB homepage - the sonatas in C major and a minor: http://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/92747 Best regards Markus -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Warsaw baroque lute manuscripts
Dear Friends, in the meantime all of the Warsaw baroque lute manuscripts are online, even now RM 4139/olim W2006. You can find the links on the manuscript page for baroque lute by Peter Steur and me, if you open the manuscripts: http://mss.slweiss.de We will try to include all official links (by the libraries) to the manuscripts. Best regards Markus -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Cologne lute MS?
Many thanks, Arthur, I have corrected it already. Best regards Am 07.11.2013 10:30, schrieb Arthur Ness: Thank you, Bernd. Yes, but the shelf-number is Ms. 5.P.171 (olim, Ms. 1.N.68). See Christian Meyer et al., **Sources manuscrits en Tabulature,** vol. 2 (Deutschland), 150-51. I was remiss in not checking Peter Steur's valuable inventory of baroque lute sources! - Original Message - From: Bernd Haegemann [1]b...@symbol4.de To: William Samson [2]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: [3]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 8:32 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Cologne lute MS? Is it this? [4]http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=D-KNulangTHushowms s=1 [5]http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=D-KNulangTHushowm ss=1 Am 31.10.2013 19:10, schrieb William Samson: Dear collective wisdom, You're probably aware of the 'Lautenbuch Livre pour le lut Koeln, 18. Jahrhundert' published by Schott ED5425, edited by Giesbert perhaps in the 1930s There's some nice stuff in there and I was trying to learn more about the original MS. Apparently it was held in the Stadtsbibliotheque in Cologne, but I can find no mention of it anywhere apart from the Schott publication. I know that there were hundreds of bombing raids against Cologne in the second world war. Perhaps it was destroyed at that time? Does anybody know any more about this MS? Thanks, Bill -- To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:b...@symbol4.de 2. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 3. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=D-KNulang%C3%9Eushowmss=1 5. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=D-KNulang%C3%9Eushowmss=1 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Cologne lute MS?
Indeed this is a interesting manuscript, and it also has some Weiss in it. But the Weiss pieces there prove that the quality of the manuscript in itself isn't that high, as these pieces probably wouldn't be ascribed to Weiss, if the aren't known elsewhere as Weiss pieces. That means: there are mistakes in it and missing notes ... Best regards Markus Am 07.11.2013 17:03, schrieb William Samson: Correction- the Giesbert book contains all the pieces from the MS. I thought there were more in the MS because lute 1 and lute 2 parts are counted separately. The only significant difference is that Giesbert changes the order in which they appear. For players I would like to say that there are some wonderful pieces here - some for beginners - and many for 11c lute. Kind regards and thanks, Bill [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android __ From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk; To: Arthur Ness arthurjn...@verizon.net; Bernd Haegemann b...@symbol4.de; Cc: Baroque Lute List baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Cologne lute MS? Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 9:41:29 AM That's very useful! Thank you Bernd and Arthur. It seems that the majority of the pieces are in the Giesbert book (37 out of 43). If I've got that right, it's surprising that he didn't include the remaining half dozen . . . Bill From: Arthur Ness [2]arthurjn...@verizon.net To: Bernd Haegemann [3]b...@symbol4.de; William Samson [4]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Baroque Lute List [5]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2013, 9:30 Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Cologne lute MS? Thank you, Bernd. Yes, but the shelf-number is Ms. 5.P.171 (olim, Ms. 1.N.68). See Christian Meyer et al., **Sources manuscrits en Tabulature,** vol. 2 (Deutschland), 150-51. I was remiss in not checking Peter Steur's valuable inventory of baroque lute sources! - Original Message - From: Bernd Haegemann [1][6]b...@symbol4.de To: William Samson [2][7]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: [3][8]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 8:32 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Cologne lute MS? Is it this? [4][9]http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=D-KNulangTHusho wms s=1 [5][10]http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=D-KNulangTHus howm ss=1 Am 31.10.2013 19:10, schrieb William Samson: Dear collective wisdom, You're probably aware of the 'Lautenbuch Livre pour le lut Koeln, 18. Jahrhundert' published by Schott ED5425, edited by Giesbert perhaps in the 1930s There's some nice stuff in there and I was trying to learn more about the original MS. Apparently it was held in the Stadtsbibliotheque in Cologne, but I can find no mention of it anywhere apart from the Schott publication. I know that there were hundreds of bombing raids against Cologne in the second world war. Perhaps it was destroyed at that time? Does anybody know any more about this MS? Thanks, Bill -- To get on or off this list see list information at [6][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[12]b...@symbol4.de 2. mailto:[13]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 3. mailto:[14]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. [15]http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=D-KNu/%C3%9Eushow mss=1 5. [16]http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=D-KNu/%C3%9Eushow mss=1 6. [17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android 2. javascript:return 3. javascript:return 4. javascript:return 5. javascript:return 6. javascript:return 7. javascript:return 8. javascript:return 9. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=D-KNulangTHushowms 10. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=D-KNulangTHushowm 11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 12. javascript:return 13. javascript:return 14. javascript:return 15. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=D-KNu%E2%8C%A9%C3%9Eushowmss=1 16. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msms=D-KNu%E2%8C%A9%C3%9Eushowmss=1 17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Mus. Ms. 40633
Am 27.09.2013 00:47, schrieb Donald K. Wilson: I was able to download 40633, the the link from Markus Lutz takes me to the overview for that manuscript. I can't find anything about all editions. I did manage to find 40620, but I couldn't find anything else. Does anyone know if the other manuscripts are available online? Thanks, dkw all editions On 09/18/2013 12:59 AM, Markus Lutz wrote: Thank you, Ralf, I found a shorter URL, that shows all editions: http://jbc.bj.uj.edu.pl/publication/242941 Best regards Markus Am 17.09.2013 22:01, schrieb Ralf Bachmann: From the Jagiellonian Digital Library, Krakow - Poland: [1]http://jbc.bj.uj.edu.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id#1274fromuC Franzoesische Tabulatur fuer Laute Description: Includes works by composers: Gottlieb Ernst Baron, Bogus^3aw Stanis^3aw Bronikowski, Jacques Gallot, Jan Antonin Losy, Ennemond Gaultier, Charles Mouton, Johann Georg Weichenberger. Date: 1753 Format: image/x.djvu Source: Biblioteka Jagiellonska, Mus. Ms. 40633 Digital copy identifier: DIGMUZ26 Location of original document: Biblioteka Jagiellonska Rights: Domena publiczna (public domain) Resource Identifier: oai:jbc.bj.uj.edu.pl:231274 -- References 1. http://jbc.bj.uj.edu.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id#1274from%C3%BBC To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Mus. Ms. 40633
Thank you, Ralf, I found a shorter URL, that shows all editions: http://jbc.bj.uj.edu.pl/publication/242941 Best regards Markus Am 17.09.2013 22:01, schrieb Ralf Bachmann: From the Jagiellonian Digital Library, Krakow - Poland: [1]http://jbc.bj.uj.edu.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id#1274fromuC Franzoesische Tabulatur fuer Laute Description: Includes works by composers: Gottlieb Ernst Baron, Bogus^3aw Stanis^3aw Bronikowski, Jacques Gallot, Jan Antonin Losy, Ennemond Gaultier, Charles Mouton, Johann Georg Weichenberger. Date: 1753 Format: image/x.djvu Source: Biblioteka Jagiellonska, Mus. Ms. 40633 Digital copy identifier: DIGMUZ26 Location of original document: Biblioteka Jagiellonska Rights: Domena publiczna (public domain) Resource Identifier: oai:jbc.bj.uj.edu.pl:231274 -- References 1. http://jbc.bj.uj.edu.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id#1274from%C3%BBC To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ms Danzig 4230 online
Dear Ralf, many thanks for this link. Peter Steur and me will work on the Conterparties in the next days. Some already can be seen on the Mss-page, but there are much more. Best regards Markus Am 04.09.2013 22:36, schrieb Ralf Bachmann: Ms Danzig 4230 online: http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/dms/werkansicht/?PPN=PPN74519 7221 The short description in RISM: Collection 92 Dances Original title: [without title] Material: 1 parts lute 1 (french lute tablature) Manuscript: 1650-1699 (17.2d); 9 x 16 cm Remarks: lute 2 missing; Yeap, this one is a vast collection of Contreparties to existing lute solos, nice to look at but frustrating ... Would be interesting to have an up-to-date list of the matching lute parts. Is someone working on that and willing to share? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Barbe Manuscript - any colourful copy?
Hi Luca, unfortunately the Barbe ms isn't available. But some other manuscripts and many books of the Minkoff edition are available from Andreas Schlegel, who bouth the stock of Minkoff. Some lute books are still available at prices that are at least 50 % lower than listed previously. The webpage is: http://www.andreas-schlegel.ch/en/minkoff With kind regards from the Utrecht festival (sitting in front of the Dome) Markus Am 30.08.2013 19:47, schrieb Luca Manassero: Dear List, my favourite french lute music manuscript is - needless to say - the Manuscrit Barbe. As you certainly know the fingering appears in red ink and is *very* difficult to read on a black/white copy. There used to be an expensive facsimile printed by Minkoff, but it's out of print (or horribly expensive) since many years. As we live in a world full of nice surprises - like museums scanning manuscripts and putting them on line for free - are you aware of ANY colourful copy of the Barbe manuscript? As an alternative, is it possible to order one from the french museum owning the original? Thank you in advance, Luca To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss Volume 9 Facsimile
As far as I know, only the transcription volumes have been published already. On the Baerenreiter homepage the tablature volumes are being listed as in Vorbereitung (in preparation). Best regards Markus Am 27.07.2013 06:19, schrieb sterling price: Hi all-- I'm looking for info about the Weiss complete works volume 9 facsimile. This is the one with works from miscellaneous manuscripts, and the one I have been waiting almost 20 years to get. OMI has it listed, but with no price. Before I call OMI, has anyone seen this yet? Thanks, Sterling -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Interesting web page: www.lute.cz
Dear Ralf, the site www.lute.cz I already knew, but it was a good thing to mention Emil Vogl today. As I read now was born on 21st May in 1901, so we have reason to think of him today on his 112th birthday. I didn't know before, that he was a Jew. Luckily he wasn't murdered during Nazi time! Best regards Markus Am 21.05.2013 16:32, schrieb Ralf Bachmann: www.lute.cz Nice web page with an overview of tablature books which are currently held in the Czech Republic + an extended personal view on Dr. Emil Vogl. I remember back in 1987 having bought Vogl's tablature book From the lute tablatures of Bohemian baroque Edition Supraphon, and enjoyed playing from it! After all those years still easy to spot in my collection: very pink cover + black letters ;-) Actually someone made a quite convincing CD of that material ... shame on me, have to look at home who he was ;-) Best wishes, Ralf -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Respighi/the birds/Gallot
Hello Roland, this seems to be Courante, La pigeonne (Jacques Gallot, CLFGal N°14) fis-moll- GallPiec / 35 Yes, now I even found the word in dict.leo.org: La pigeonne seems to mean female dove. Respighi didn't change the key - it is still in f# minor, but slowed down the tempo a little bit, isn't it? Best regards Markus Am 10.01.2013 18:09, schrieb Roland Hayes: Dear Collective Wisdom: Does anyone know which Gallot piece was used for the dove by Respighi as part of The Birds? Thanks in advance. r -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A dramatic Aria in US-NYpMYO. Anyone recognises?
Hi Arto, I don't know it either, but I found another concordance of it: = Aria ex B g-moll- D-B40627 / 63v Best regards Markus Am 07.01.2013 20:30, schrieb Arto Wikla: Hi lutenists, An Aria with a mini Prelude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WWgw-wJ2ofeature=youtu.be http://vimeo.com/56928250 Anyone recognises this Aria? it is probably an Italian opera aria that was known in Vienna sometime around 1700. Arto On 29/12/12 22:25, Arto Wikla wrote: And then even more enigmatic piece, perhaps an Aria, but the ms. doesn't say anything: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMbqkySdnEYfeature=youtu.be http://vimeo.com/56475029 All the best, Arto On 27/12/12 22:23, Arto Wikla wrote: Dear baroque lutenists, I happened to find an unknown Aria by an unknown composer in ms. US-NYpMYO, fol. 13v. The piece sounds irritatingly familiar, though. If somebody happens to know the piece or the composer, please let me know! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLKS1PX9B14feature=youtu.be http://vimeo.com/56385493 Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: An anonymous Aria sounds so familiar...
Hi Arto, this seems to be a concordance of an Air by Losy: Air du Comte Logy (Losy?) d-moll- D-Witt / 5v 1. D-Witt / 5r (should mean 5v) | 2. F-Sim / 2r See 1. PL-Wn396 / 94v | 2. PL-Wu2008 / 62 (1) | 3. PL-Wu2009 / 78 (2) Best regards Markus Am 27.12.2012 21:23, schrieb Arto Wikla: Dear baroque lutenists, I happened to find an unknown Aria by an unknown composer in ms. US-NYpMYO, fol. 13v. The piece sounds irritatingly familiar, though. If somebody happens to know the piece or the composer, please let me know! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLKS1PX9B14feature=youtu.be http://vimeo.com/56385493 Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lobkowicz collections, CZ
As far as I know, there is none of them published by TREE edition. Albert (a copy of this mail also to you) published all of the Goess volumes, of the Leipzig library, some of Rostock, but none of the Prague mss. Best regards Markus On 08.05.2012 06:18, David Smith wrote: Take a look at Volume XXXII of the LSA. There is an article Jiří Čepalák, Lutes in the Lobkowicz Collection, Nelahozeves Castle, Bohemia. Rob, do you know which manuscripts Tree edition did? I do not recognize them on the tree editions site. Regards David -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Rob MacKillop Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 12:16 PM To: theoj89...@aol.com Cc: l...@cs.dartmouth.edu; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lobkowicz collections, CZ I think Tree Editions has published them all... Rob On 7 May 2012 20:13,[1]theoj89...@aol.com wrote: The Lobkowicz estate owns several baroque lutes and several baroque lute manuscripts or books that are on display at the Lobkowicz Palace in Prague, Czech Republic. [2]http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ Are the lute books of any interest, and if so, are copies anywhere available? Likewise, are there technical drawings of any of the lutes available? It is a very interesting collection of lutes and, apparently a few lute books, (as well as a baroque guitar and at least one baroque guitar book), but there is little specific information given at the Palace exhibit, and I could find no additional information online. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 2. http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: BL Transcription of Tropico by M. Ponce
Dear Bernhard, unfortunately because of financial problems of organization the lute festival in Vienna was cancelled last week by the Deutsche Lautengesellschaft ... Best regards Markus On 13.02.2012 13:21, Bernhard Fischer wrote: Dear Edgar, Thank you for your posting. What means near Vienna? I am living IN Vienna. I also have a SCRIBD account and I started to provide copies of BL manuscripts from Vienna. This alone is a major source of pieces. In Vienna, we are only a handful lute players. I do know Mr. Rainer Waldeck a very nice person (ex-professional) where I started to take regular lessons. Prof. Contini is teaching at the Conservatorium, is very helpful too. Only by name I know Mr. Hubert Hoffmann. This is it for the moment. Do you know that this May we will host the Lute Festival of the DLG in Vienna? Why not meet sooner or later? Kind regards, Bernhard Fischer biotechconsult...@aon.at Vienna, Austria -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von Edgar Aichinger Gesendet: Montag, 13. Februar 2012 11:56 An: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [BAROQUE-LUTE] BL Transcription of Tropico by M. Ponce Hello, after years of silently reading this list I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Edgar Aichinger, I'm an amateur self-tought lute player living near Vienna, Austria. I started with guitar at age of 14, back in the seventies and always felt attracted by renaissance and baroque music, so when i got the chance to buy a second hand 10 course lute made by (Hans Hermann Herb, Erlangen 1979) around 1994, I just had to do it. After some years playing ren. tuning i changed strings and stayed with d-minor from then on. The lute is a bit of a special case, according to viennese luthier Nupi Jenner it is built like a baroque lute (curved fretboard) but lacks some typical attributes. E.g. the pegbox doesn't have the typical decorated jigsawed coverplate at the back side, the neck-body joint is at fret 9, not 10. and it has only 10 courses! ;) Nupi had to open it to repair a crack in the belly, and while doing so he found out that the neck joint is done in a very unusual way. Well after all it has been built before the big early music boom... Well anyway, I'd like to express my gratitude for many hours of interesting reading, links to facsimiles and other sources for music being posted here. As an attempt to give something back to the community (being an open-source guy that's natural thinking for me) I want to let you know that I posted my BL transcription of a guitar solo piece by Manuel Ponce, Tropico, to my scribd page. I spent a couple of months in Mexico City back in Winter 1996/7, living in a musician's household, and brought with me copies of autographs by Ponce, from a book I found there. I hope some of you find this interesting and I'm all ears if anyone has suggestions on improving the transcription. I can also post the cripps lutetab source, and maybe also a - mediocre - recording by myself if someone is interested. Here's the link: http://www.scribd.com/edogawa23/d/81356266-tropico-a4 Eventually some more music will follow, I'll keep you informed. Greetings, Edgar -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Hasse for solo lute or with voice
There are also 4 Hasse Arias in the so called Munich manuscript, that had been published also by Tree editions with a very founded critical commentary by Frank Legl. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?lang=engid=2type=msscomp=Hasse Best regards Markus Am 24.08.2011 16:23, schrieb hera caius: Hello, Can anybody tell me where to find Hasse pieces for solo lute or pieces for lute and voice? Is there any source on internet? Thank you, Caius -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss for 11c
Probably Thomas means the In Venetiis - this is 11-course music completely. There we have mostly really early works of Weiss and some French works also, possibly from 1712 - but the date can hardly be read. The Weiss a Rome is a much later manuscript (although some of the music is very early also), probably around 1740, as there is a Tombeau by Gebel in it and also some Chorals by Falckenhagen. Best regards Markus Am 26.07.2011 21:24, schrieb Bernd Haegemann: the entire Paris MS is for the 11-course lute. Charming stuff BTW Best wishes . there are some 5s and 6s lurking though... (we are talking about the Weiss à Rome ms, aren't we?) best regards Bernd Thomas Am Dienstag, 26. Juli 2011, 18.06:44 schrieb Christopher Pearcy: Dear List As some-one who plays exclusively the French repertory, I'm now looking to explore Weiss a little. Can anyone let me know what the best primary sources for his 11c music are? I suspect that the London ms is probably one - but how much of it is for 11c lute? Best wishes Chris Pearcy -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Thomas Schall Doerflistrasse 2 CH-6078 Lungern +41 41 678 00 79 lauten...@lautenist.de --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Odp: Re: another portrait of S.L. Weiss?
Dear Grzegorz, it might be possible, that there are other portraits/engravings of Weiss, but we don't know. Hoffmann wrote about the engraving of Weiss, that was published as frontispiz in the Bibliothek ... and he writes about an engraving by Folin on a portrait of Denner. As the engraving by Folin/Denner is included in the Bibliothek these seem to be the same. But: It is true, that we cannot be sure, if there is another engraving, that shows another cut-off of the engraving. Possible, but a little bit of fiction also, as we don't know at the moment any engraving of Weiss that is different from the Bibliothek-engraving. And in my eyes Hoffmann doesn't seem to be a good witness for this. Other documents that speak of another portrait of Weiss I don't know. Another thing is, that we have a picture of the young Johann Sigismund Weiss in /Le portrait du vrai mérite dans la personne serenissime de Monseigneur L'Electeur Palatin by /Giorgio Maria/Rapparini/. And I also found in Gerber, that there was once a portrait in pastel of Adolf Faustinus Weiss, the son of S.L.Weiss, in the library of Hiller. Best regards Markus Am 11.07.2011 01:05, schrieb Grzegorz Joachimiak: Dear Bernhard and Markus, I would like to add that I searched also others engraving portraits of Weiss by Folino. I think that very interesting things are so-called independent engraving (not included in Neue Bibliothek der schönen Wissenschaften ..., Vol. 1, 1765). These informations wrote in Singer's catalogue (H. W. Singer, Allgemeiner Bildniskatalog, Leipzig 1934, no. 95597). One copy was/is (?) in Vienna National Library, two copies were/are in Dresden, one copy was in Breslau/Wroclaw-Stadtbibliothek Breslau (now in Wroclaw University Library) and one (no mentioned by Singer) is in Paris National Library. Probably an engraving from Stadtbibliothek Breslau is actually in Ossolinski National Institute, Department of Prints (Graphic). Look at http://www2.oss.wroc.pl/index.php/english/ (there are only my presumption based on the same possessor's name who had collection of engravings from Stadtbibliothek Breslau. Engraving preserved in Ossolineum contains in paper no provenance sign, so I can not be sure). These engravings were obtained and than sold after 2nd World War by Mr. Zdzislaw Szczyglowski from Raciborz (germ. Ratibor). Department of Prints (Graphic) in Wroclaw University Library also bought graphics in auction from Mr. Szczyglowski from Raciborz so I thought that probably there was the same person who sold in auction independent engraving with Weiss's portrait to Ossolineum. Actually in Wroclaw University Library we could find only index card connected of engraving with Weiss's portrait from Stadtbibliothek Breslau. I wrote short article about these things (cf. semi-annual Polish magazine about baroque history, literature, art: Barok 17 (2010) no. 2, pp. 97-105: http://www.neriton.apnet.pl/product_info.php?cPath=47products_id=643 ). In Ossolinski National Institute I found others engraving by Folino. In Warsaw Gallery called Na Tlumackiem existed among others things two portraits of musicians by Denner: J. A. Hasse and G. F. Haendel. Unfortunately this gallery actually is not exist and we do not know where is this collection now (A. Ryszkiewicz, Kolekcjonerzy i milosnicy, Warszawa 1981). By Folino in Ossolinski National Institute, Department of Prints in Wroclaw (Ossolineum) I found also similar manner of Folino's engraving technique like portrait of Weiss: e.g. portrait of Stanislaw August with Ciolek coat of arms, bust of Adam Naruszewicz and Maciej Kazimierz Sarbiewski (follow by medallion from 1770). Best wishes Grzegorz Dnia 10-07-2011 o godz. 22:04 Markus Lutz napisał(a): Dear Bernhard, no there isn't any further portrait of Weiss, only the picture by Denner and the engraving of this portrait. It's true, that Hoffmann writes about three, but the engraving in the Neue Bibliothek der schönen Wissenschaften ..., Vol. 1, 1765, is the engraving by Folin! So he is wrong. On the following site you will find a digital copy of the complete volume: http://scout.ub.uni-potsdam.de/fea/digbib/view?did=c1:209p=1 But the quality of the copy, especially of the engraving is very poor. Also on http://www.tabulatura.com you will find a better copy of it. Kenneth Sparr writes there: Silvius Leopold Weiss. Copper engraving [1765] by Bartolomeo Folino [1730-after 1808] , after a painting (c. 1740), now lost, by Balthasar Denner [1685-1749]. This engraving (a copy of which is in the author's collection) was included in the first volume of Neuen Bibliothek der schönen Wissenschaften und freyen Künste, Leipzig 1765. The reasons for dating the original painting to c. 1740 is that it shows Weiss in his mature years and that Denner in 1740 also portrayed Johann Adolf Hasse, who was the leader of the court orchestra at Dresden. It is hardly likely that the engraving was made before 1750 as Weiss died
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: another portrait of S.L. Weiss?
Dear Bernhard, no there isn't any further portrait of Weiss, only the picture by Denner and the engraving of this portrait. It's true, that Hoffmann writes about three, but the engraving in the Neue Bibliothek der schönen Wissenschaften ..., Vol. 1, 1765, is the engraving by Folin! So he is wrong. On the following site you will find a digital copy of the complete volume: http://scout.ub.uni-potsdam.de/fea/digbib/view?did=c1:209p=1 But the quality of the copy, especially of the engraving is very poor. Also on http://www.tabulatura.com you will find a better copy of it. Kenneth Sparr writes there: Silvius Leopold Weiss. Copper engraving [1765] by Bartolomeo Folino [1730-after 1808] , after a painting (c. 1740), now lost, by Balthasar Denner [1685-1749]. This engraving (a copy of which is in the author's collection) was included in the first volume of Neuen Bibliothek der schönen Wissenschaften und freyen Künste, Leipzig 1765. The reasons for dating the original painting to c. 1740 is that it shows Weiss in his mature years and that Denner in 1740 also portrayed Johann Adolf Hasse, who was the leader of the court orchestra at Dresden. It is hardly likely that the engraving was made before 1750 as Weiss died that year and Folino was but 20 years old. Folino was born in Venice and died in Warsaw. Best regards Markus Am 10.07.2011 18:06, schrieb Bernhard Hofstoetter: Dear lute netters, Carl J. A. Hoffmann's The musicians/composers of Silesia (Die Tonkünstler Schlesiens), published in Breslau in 1830, contains an entry on Weiss, both Silvius and Siegmund. The last two sentences in the article on S.L. Weiss, in my translation, read as follows: His picture is in the library of fine arts. There is also another one, in octavo format, which has been drawn by Denner and engraved by Folin. (German original: Sein Bildniß befindet sich in der Bibliothek der schönen Wissenschaften. Auch giebt es noch ein anderes in Oktav, gezeichnet von Denner, gestochen von Folin.) It seems to me that the second sentence refers to the well-known engraving by Folin which is based on the lost painting/drawing by Denner. The first sentence, however, apparently refers to another portrait by a painter whose name is not given. Is Hoffmann the only source suggesting that such other portrait ever existed? Can anyone shed light on this matter? Bernhard To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Pachelbel B-lute pieces
This is the Paisane from D-Nst ms 2353a/b 2 Paisane del Sigre Pachelbel (Pachelbel?) C-Dur- D-Nst2353 / 2v Best regards Markus Am 07.06.2011 10:46, schrieb Stuart Walsh: On 07/06/2011 08:41, Bernd Haegemann wrote: I have a vague memory of seeing name Pachelbel mentioned in some b-lute mss; and I have not seen the two mss in Peter's listing - actually I am quite sure I've seen it... Dear Arto, I have the same impression. I have seen the name Pachelbel - but I have never seen the two mss in question... best wishes Bernd Me too. I have a dim memory and even even dimmer ancient photocopies. Here's one which I think has the name Pachelbel but it's hard to read. http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/P.jpg Stuart On the other hand I doubt P. himself composed anything directly to lute solo; so I guess the mss's pieces are arrangements themselves. So why don't you arrange your P. favorites to the b-lute by yourself, Theo? My tiny experience suggests that baroque pieces work often quite well on baroque lute. Same feeling, by the way, in renaissance pieces being suitable to the renaissance lute... Perhaps this is not just a coincidence... :) Best, Arto On Mon, 6 Jun 2011 21:32:45 +0200, Bernd Haegemann b...@symbol4.de wrote: beste Theo, Are there a few pieces composed by Johann Pachelbel in a baroque lute manuscript somewhere http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?lang=deuid=2type=mssst=0nm=50title=key=msnam=comp=Pachelbel (does my memory serve me correct)? If so, which manuscript, and do they have any musical interest? Have they been recorded? thanks, trj I only know of one recording: http://www.amazon.de/Resveur-Anthony-Bailes/dp/B9VGUU groeten Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Pachelbel B-lute pieces
BTW, although it is called Autograph, it is not at all an autograph by Pachelbel, but it also might have been copied in the area of Salzburg. Best regards Markus Am 07.06.2011 14:05, schrieb Markus Lutz: Unfortunately Peter hasn't given the exact numbers on the web page. The mentioned Manuskript is in the Stadtbibliothek (town library) Nürnberg and bears the number Autogr. 2353 . It is in two fascicles that are named a + b. This fascicles come from the Harrach manuscripts. If you compare, you will see, that the hand is the same like many other fascicles in New York and Rohrau. Best regards Markus Am 07.06.2011 12:59, schrieb Mike Peterson: What is the Nurnberg Stadtbibliothek ms 2353b?? Mike P On Jun 7, 2011, at 3:50 AM, G. Crona wrote: Yes here: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/tab-serv/tab-serv.cgi?Baroque_lute with a hopelessly corrupted midi for the diapasons G. - Original Message - From: Roman Turovskyr.turov...@verizon.net To: Stuart Walshs.wa...@ntlworld.com; Markus Lutzmar...@gmlutz.de Cc: Bernd Haegemannb...@symbol4.de; wiklawi...@cs.helsinki.fi;baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;theoj89...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 12:30 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Pachelbel B-lute pieces The suite in F#minor is in the Wayne's pages somewhere. RT From: Markus Lutzmar...@gmlutz.de This is the Paisane from D-Nst ms 2353a/b 2 Paisane del Sigre Pachelbel (Pachelbel?) C-Dur - D-Nst2353 / 2v Best regards Markus Am 07.06.2011 10:46, schrieb Stuart Walsh: On 07/06/2011 08:41, Bernd Haegemann wrote: I have a vague memory of seeing name Pachelbel mentioned in some b-lute mss; and I have not seen the two mss in Peter's listing - actually I am quite sure I've seen it... Dear Arto, I have the same impression. I have seen the name Pachelbel - but I have never seen the two mss in question... best wishes Bernd Me too. I have a dim memory and even even dimmer ancient photocopies. Here's one which I think has the name Pachelbel but it's hard to read. http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/P.jpg Stuart On the other hand I doubt P. himself composed anything directly to lute solo; so I guess the mss's pieces are arrangements themselves. So why don't you arrange your P. favorites to the b-lute by yourself, Theo? My tiny experience suggests that baroque pieces work often quite well on baroque lute. Same feeling, by the way, in renaissance pieces being suitable to the renaissance lute... Perhaps this is not just a coincidence... :) Best, Arto On Mon, 6 Jun 2011 21:32:45 +0200, Bernd Haegemannb...@symbol4.de wrote: beste Theo, Are there a few pieces composed by Johann Pachelbel in a baroque lute manuscript somewhere http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?lang=deuid=2type=mssst=0nm=50title=key=msnam=comp=Pachelbel (does my memory serve me correct)? If so, which manuscript, and do they have any musical interest? Have they been recorded? thanks, trj I only know of one recording: http://www.amazon.de/Resveur-Anthony-Bailes/dp/B9VGUU groeten Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1325 / Virus Database: 1511/3686 - Release Date: 06/07/11 -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Miguel Serdoura - 13c- baroque lute to sell
Dear baroque lute friends, Miguel Serdoura has asked me to forward this message. He wants to sell his baroque lute, as you can read below. The pictures of the lute I have made available under: http://miguel.slweiss.de/index.php Best regards Markus Miguel's message -- FOR SALE : 13c lute build by Cezar Mateus in 2004, Princeton, USA. This fabulous lute can be heard on the CD THE COURT OF BAYREUTH recorded by Miguel Yisrael for the Dutch Label Brilliant Classics, in 2010, and which acquired a Diapason d'Or Découverte in the same year. www.miguelyisrael.com TECHNICAL DETAILS Hear of construction : 2004 String lenght: 70 cm Case: Kingham State: Perfect Price: 7.500€ Transport: Possibility of dispatch worldwide. Visible in Paris. Contact: Miguel Yisrael (miguelyisr...@gmail.com) Many photographs of the instrument you'll find on: http://miguel.slweiss.de/index.php Truly yours, Miguel Yisrael www.miguelyisrael.com -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque lute manuscripts
Am 04.03.2011 22:39, schrieb wikla: But today Peter Steur's work and pages are very important to actual players and researchers of baroque lute - there are some mistakes in the keys etc here and there - as there are errors in any study - but I would like to suggest us to give a heavy support to Peter's valuable work! Dear Arto and others, it would be fine, if you would give a notice, if you find mistakes or problems on the manuscript page ( http://mss.slweiss.de ), so that Peter can correct it. He has begun, as he explains in the foreword, with the concordance list of Weiss works, that I established with the help of many others, and expanded it on nearly all baroque lute manuscripts. Everyone is free to add his findings or his corrections by sending them to Peter or me. Peter has all of the data in his hands, whereas I am responsible for the php-code that helps to show the content (ms data, concordances, incipits etc.), filter it etc. In the last days I have added a short explanation to the established filters - I hope it is now easier to understand. If the pages take some time to load this might come from the incipits, that at the moment are made anew every time, I change the code ... I really do not know, what is Peter's relation to the official musicology, but I strongly suggest most close co-operation! Both of us are in close contact to Tim and other musicologists, that have to do with lute music. Best regards Markus -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: polonaises
There are many: http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=mssmss=nam=Pol And some also are hidden under the following entries: http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=mssmss=nam=pol Best Markus Am 29.01.2011 06:25, schrieb Roman Turovsky: A question to the Collective Wisdom: What lute polonaises do we have, aside from Baron, Weiss-Moscow, and Falkenhagen op.2? RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: polonaises
What do you mean with Telemann-Transcriptions? PL-Wu2001? It doesn't have any Polonaise ... Best regards Markus Am 29.01.2011 11:29, schrieb Thomas Schall: The Telemann-Transcriptions have some if I recall correctly. I remember Kropfganss and Blohm ... Am 29.01.2011 10:48, schrieb Stuart Walsh: What lute polonaises do we have, aside from Baron, Weiss-Moscow, and To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Haslemere manuscript
With this attribution I wouldn't have any problems, as the brother is not at all a worse composer. Maybe - but wer weiß (who knows) ... In every case there is a menuett in the Dresden ms (S-C 43.5) that reminds me to this sarabande, and there also is the Sarabande in the Bach lute suite in g-minor: Here is the incipit of the Menuett http://www.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=sc-listsc=43.5 Best regards Markus Am 25.01.2011 15:37, schrieb Roman Turovsky: I doubt it is by SLW. Probably SigismundW. RT - Original Message - From: Markus Lutz mar...@gmlutz.de To: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net Cc: Hilbert Jörg hilbert.jo...@t-online.de; BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Haslemere manuscript Indeed, but the Sarabande in e minor by Weiss is extraordinary, isn't it? Best regards Markus Am 25.01.2011 14:33, schrieb Roman Turovsky: It is a pretty peculiar Ms., quite large, but containing only 2 whopping pieces in minor. RT - Original Message - From: Hilbert Jörg hilbert.jo...@t-online.de To: Hilbert Jörg hilbert.jo...@t-online.de Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:29 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Haslemere manuscript Dear friends of the lute, a big thank you very much' to everyone, who wrote me back. I think, most of my questions about this particular music are about to be answered now. Best regards to everyone, Jörg Am 25.01.2011 um 08:18 schrieb Hilbert Jörg: Dear friends, I‚d really like to look up some details of a Lauffensteiner suite in the facsimile of the Haslemere ms (folios 153-156). Unfortunately I don‚t know much more about it than the name, and I have also no idea where to look for it. Can someone help me? Thanks, Jörg -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rohrau text
Hello Chris, please look at my private mail. Best regards Markus Am 15.01.2011 18:39, schrieb Christopher Wilke: Hello all, Is there anyone who has the Rohrau/Harrach Weiss manuscript from the Deutsche Lautengesellschaft who would be willing to scan the text commentary by Legl, Lutz and Freimuth for me? (OK if its in German). I'm doing a research project for school and this information will help me to determine if I need to look at the manuscript. I plan on purchasing it eventually, but its a bit too rich for me while I'm in school. (...and I can't get my hands on it through the library yet.) Thanks, Chris Christopher Wilke Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss duets for lute and harpsichord
Hello Stephan, unfortunately the edition of the Weiss complete works still hadn't been finished at the time Richard Stone published his reconstruction. So some of the numbers were preliminary and had to be changed due to other editorial choices. On the Weiss site you find the current numbering of all works that will be published in the complete works of S.L.Weiss. I try to keep it up to date as Tim Crawford and Dieter Kirsch inform me. I think that the numbers now are in a fixed state, as the last volumes of the edition should be published in a little while: http://www.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=sc-listlang=eng Best regards Markus Am 28.11.2010 10:29, schrieb Stephan Olbertz: Am 22.11.2010, 13:49 Uhr, schrieb Nicolás Valencia nivalenl...@gmail.com: I have Stones edition of the Weiss Lute Concerti here, and I guess the article draws on the introduction there? Unfortunately some of the SC numbers Stone gives for the Salzburg Lautencodex pieces don't match the numbers in the catalogues on the SLWeiss-site. For example, Stone has SC 27 + 57 for no. III, the catalogues 27 + 52. For no. V Stone has SC 68, aginst 69 in the web incipits. And so on. Can anyone shed some light on this? Best regards, Stephan BTW: Does anyone have the Salzburg MS (M III 25)? I can' find it indexed on the website of the library. I know Stone, Schroeder and Cardin's reconstructions for flute lute and lute lute, but I was wondering if there's any lute harpsichord recording of these duets. Any other composer wrote for both instruments? Regards, Nicolas -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Caro mio ben found before Giardano's birth...
Dear Arto, that's a nice finding! The thema of Gavotte (probably f. 26v?) really is pretty much the same like the aria of Giordano. You wouldn't find that in the German ;-), as I didn't notice it! BTW - it has some more concordances, like you can see in Peter's list (http://mss.slweiss.de) and it might probably be by Losy, as it is ascribed to him many times. It even is called Aria in some manuscripts! 33 Gavotte (Losy) C-Dur- D-ROu52-2 / 26v 1. A-KR77 / 30v | 2. D-B40627 / 14v (Curiosa Dama) | 3. PL-Wn396 / 11v (#6) | 4. PL-Wn396 / 18v (#13)| 5. PL-Wu2008 / 44 (Aria) | 6. PL-Wu2009 / 52 (Aria) | 7. S-Klm 4a / 8v (Gavotte de Monr CL) | 8. S-Klm21072 / 73v (Gavotte de comte Loge) | 9. Stockholm 4a / 6 (keyboard) Best regards Markus Am 09.09.2010 16:46, schrieb wikla: Dear Markus and the List, just got the Rostock Mus.saec. XVII.18.-52.2 published by the Deutsche Lautengesellschaft and edited by Markus. Very interesting book, clearly much good music at the first sight! I was just glimpsing here and there, and found something interestin that seems not to have been commented - well I did not yet read the preface, because my German reading is so slow... Anyhow, if it is not generally known, the Gavotte in fol. 24v is crearly the Caro mio ben said to be by Giordiano (1748-1798). The ms. is clearly earlier... Thanks for a fine book to Markus and Rainer Luckhardt and DLG! Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Deutches Lautenbuch von 1722?
Dear Arto, this is Rostock Ms. 52.2, which includes 20 suites of intermediate difficulty (Weichenberger, Losy, Hinterleitner et al.) and some more pieces, which sound very well and are very rewarding. And to use this opportunity for advertisement: The Deutsche Lautengesellschaft (DLG) has published a facsimile edition (still available for 53/55 EUR, members of the DLG 20% discount). Best regards Markus P.S.: The German text from the homepage of the DLG. FAKSIMILE DES LAUTENBUCHES Rostock Mus.Saec. XVII.18.-52.2 herausgegeben von Markus Lutz Das Manuskript Rostock Mus.saec. XVII.18.-52.2 ist Teil einer der umfangreichsten aus der Barockzeit überkommenen Lautentabulatursammlungen. Die Tabulatursammlung gehörte fast vollständig zu der umfangreichen Musikaliensammlung von Luise Friederike von Mecklenburg-Schwerin, ehemals Prinzessin von Württemberg (03.02.1722 - 02.08. 1791). Nicht wenige der darin enthaltenen Manuskripte stammen aus der Musikbibliothek ihres Vaters, des Erbprinzen Friedrich Ludwig von Württemberg (14.12.1698 - 23.11.1731). Angeboten wird eine vollständige Faksimile-Ausgabe des Lautenbuches (insgesamt 90 Folios) mit einem ausführlichen Vorwort von Markus Lutz sowie einem Inzipitverzeichnis mit Konkordanzen. Die Ausgabe umfasst insgesamt ca. 220 Seiten. Der Band enthält insgesamt 18 Suiten, sowie 2 Teil-Suiten und einige Einzelstücke für Barocklaute in d-moll Stimmung von mittlerer Schwierigkeit, notiert in französischer Tabu-latur. Eine der Teil-Suiten (3 Sätze) ist für Barock-lautenduo. Die meisten Werke stammen wohl aus dem österreichisch-böhmischen Raum. Unter den Kompo-nisten sind Losy, Weichenberger und Lichten-steiger vertreten, sowie jeweils ein Stück von Gallot, Weiss und evtl. Händel. Am 03.08.2010 21:43, schrieb wikla: Dear collective b-lute wisdom, does anyone here happen to know, what is the Deutches Lautenbuch von 1722, from which Giesbert took many beautiful pieces to his old but still very nice Schule fur die Barocl Laute. Thanks in advance, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Deutches Lautenbuch von 1722?
BTW - the term Deutsches Lautenbuch von 1722 comes from the inner title page where someone made some pictures with the inscription: H:O:(?) pinx. homb. d. 20. apr. 1722 Best regards Markus Am 03.08.2010 21:43, schrieb wikla: Dear collective b-lute wisdom, does anyone here happen to know, what is the Deutches Lautenbuch von 1722, from which Giesbert took many beautiful pieces to his old but still very nice Schule fur die Barocl Laute. Thanks in advance, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Edition of the Weiss Rohrau manuscripts
Dear Daniel, I have forwarded your question to the persons who are responsible for that in the DLG (Deutsche Lautengesellschaft). I hope I can answer this soon in a positive way! Best regards Markus Am 31.05.2010 12:20, schrieb Daniel Shoskes: Markus: for international subscribers would it be possible to use paypal or credit cards? Coming up with a cheque in Euros can be a challenge (although now a lot easier with the devaluation!). Thanks Danny On May 31, 2010, at 6:07 AM, Markus Lutz wrote: Dear members of the baroque lutelist, in the next weeks the Deutsche Lautengesellschaft will publish the facsimile edition of the two Rohrau lute manuscripts. As the subscription time has been extended to July the first, I want to give you notice of this. The edition Lautenmusik aus Schloss Rohrau (lute music from Schloss/castle Rohrau) will be a high-value edition in one volume with more than 260 pages of tablature in facsimile, cloth binding with stamping and thread stitching. It will also contain a comprehensive scholarly commentary in German by Michael Freimuth, Frank Legl and Markus Lutz, including a list of incipits and concordances. A preview with lower resolution can be seen under: http://www.slweiss.de/RohrauPreview.pdf (6 MB). Prices for subscription: 100 EUR for members of all lute societies before July 1st 2010 120 EUR before July 1st 2010 150 EUR after June 1st 2010 (members of the German lute society still get 20% reduction). The prices do not include postage and packing. Please send your subscription to: Deutsche Lautengesellschaft, e.V. Herrn Matthias Schneider Sandplackenstr. 13 D-60488 Frankfurt/Main, Germany Below you will find more details on the edition. Best regards Markus Lutz In 2004, the curator of the collection, count Arco-Zinneberg, came across seven manuscript books that were preserved together with the art collection. Among them were two lute tablatures. Christoph Angerer, musical director of the ensemble Concilium musicum Wien, and Michael Freimuth, who is the lutenist of the ensemble, were called in and soon realized the value of the find, particularly of the lute tablatures. The first volume (Weiss Sylvio - Lautenmusik) mostly contains works by Sylvius Leopold Weiss, among them eleven suites of several movements that have been previously unknown, one complete lute duet in four movements, and the suite in A that has so far survived as solo music, but here is in the form of a trio for violin, lute and bass. The title of the second volume, Lautenmusik von unbekannten Componisten (lute music by unknown composers) was obviously caused by the scribe’s ignorance of the music, since already as many as four suites could be ascribed to Weiss by concordances. Other suites in the collection are composed in a style that is quite similar to Weiss’s style as well. Quite unexpectedly, the volume also contains four pieces for lute in renaissance tuning, notated in Italian tablature. The present volumes, comprising more than 260 facsimile pages, bridge a gap in the group of sources of lute music by Weiss, complementing other Weiss manuscripts in London and Dresden, as they mainly contain pieces of his early creative period. The two manuscripts in Rohrau contain a total number of 157 movements for the lute, organized in 26 suites or suite-like sequences. Without doubt, these volumes are of the highest significance both for active lute players and for scholars. Please send your subscription to: Deutsche Lautengesellschaft, e.V. Herrn Matthias Schneider Sandplackenstr. 13 D-60488 Frankfurt/Main, Germany I subscribe to the facsimile edition of the two Harrach-Weiss volumes: Name, given name: Street, house number: Zip code, town, and country: I’m a member of the following lute society: Date, signature: -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Correction - Edition of the Weiss Rohrau manuscripts
Sorry for again advertising the edition, but unfortunately I have forgotten to change one date: 150 EUR after June 1st 2010 (members of the German lute society still get 20% reduction). should be read as: 150 EUR after July 1st 2010 (members of the German lute society still get 20% reduction). Best regards Markus Dear members of the baroque lutelist, in the next weeks the Deutsche Lautengesellschaft will publish the facsimile edition of the two Rohrau lute manuscripts. As the subscription time has been extended to July the first, I want to give you notice of this. The edition Lautenmusik aus Schloss Rohrau (lute music from Schloss/castle Rohrau) will be a high-value edition in one volume with more than 260 pages of tablature in facsimile, cloth binding with stamping and thread stitching. It will also contain a comprehensive scholarly commentary in German by Michael Freimuth, Frank Legl and Markus Lutz, including a list of incipits and concordances. A preview with lower resolution can be seen under: http://www.slweiss.de/RohrauPreview.pdf (6 MB). Prices for subscription: 100 EUR for members of all lute societies before July 1st 2010 120 EUR before July 1st 2010 150 EUR after June 1st 2010 (members of the German lute society still get 20% reduction). The prices do not include postage and packing. Please send your subscription to: Deutsche Lautengesellschaft, e.V. Herrn Matthias Schneider Sandplackenstr. 13 D-60488 Frankfurt/Main, Germany Below you will find more details on the edition. Best regards Markus Lutz In 2004, the curator of the collection, count Arco-Zinneberg, came across seven manuscript books that were preserved together with the art collection. Among them were two lute tablatures. Christoph Angerer, musical director of the ensemble Concilium musicum Wien, and Michael Freimuth, who is the lutenist of the ensemble, were called in and soon realized the value of the find, particularly of the lute tablatures. The first volume (Weiss Sylvio - Lautenmusik) mostly contains works by Sylvius Leopold Weiss, among them eleven suites of several movements that have been previously unknown, one complete lute duet in four movements, and the suite in A that has so far survived as solo music, but here is in the form of a trio for violin, lute and bass. The title of the second volume, Lautenmusik von unbekannten Componisten (lute music by unknown composers) was obviously caused by the scribe’s ignorance of the music, since already as many as four suites could be ascribed to Weiss by concordances. Other suites in the collection are composed in a style that is quite similar to Weiss’s style as well. Quite unexpectedly, the volume also contains four pieces for lute in renaissance tuning, notated in Italian tablature. The present volumes, comprising more than 260 facsimile pages, bridge a gap in the group of sources of lute music by Weiss, complementing other Weiss manuscripts in London and Dresden, as they mainly contain pieces of his early creative period. The two manuscripts in Rohrau contain a total number of 157 movements for the lute, organized in 26 suites or suite-like sequences. Without doubt, these volumes are of the highest significance both for active lute players and for scholars. Please send your subscription to: Deutsche Lautengesellschaft, e.V. Herrn Matthias Schneider Sandplackenstr. 13 D-60488 Frankfurt/Main, Germany I subscribe to the facsimile edition of the two Harrach-Weiss volumes: Name, given name: Street, house number: Zip code, town, and country: I’m a member of the following lute society: Date, signature: -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Informal names of mss. mapped to official names
Hi Arto, I'm pretty sure, that you don't have one of them, because the had been found in the 80s I think. The whole series had been published by Tree edition - and is still available ... Only one had been known before: The Vogl-manuscript for guitar and baroque lute, which is stored in a Klagenfurt library. One of these manuscript is called the Hueber-manuscript. The other ones don't have other names as far as I know Best regards Markus wikla schrieb: Thanks Markus, still some questions On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 23:42:40 +0100, Markus Lutz mar...@gmlutz.de wrote: A-ETgoëss is the sigla for the Goess library- In mss.slweiss.de there are about 7 Goesses. Seems to be a very valuable collection of baroque lute mss., reading Peter S's listings! How could I find out, whether I already have some of these - perhaps by another name? And if/when I do not have them, where could I find them? Well, lots of questions, no hurry to find answers... ;-) Best regards, Arto Best regards Markus wikla schrieb: Dear Markus and all. On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 23:09:36 +0100, Markus Lutz mar...@gmlutz.de wrote: BTW: A-Goess means EBENTHAL, Grafen Goëss'sche Primogenitur-Fideikommiss-Bibliothek So is this perhaps the same as the informally so called Wien 17 706? I guess not? Anyhow and btw that informal name is in the microfilm I got from the museum in Wien a couple of decades ago... By what name could the microfilm named Oesterreichische Nationalbibliothek... COD 17 706 in the film, be called today? And are there different names in every paper pointing to that ms.? This Oesterreichische Nationalbibliothek... COD 17 706 happens to be the one with the theorbo Allemende by Anchelo Michiele... Still confused... ;-) All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: b-lute debut
Sorry, David, for the sentence that I didn't conclude. I wanted to look up a word in the dictionary and then I forgot to finish it. But now here is, what I wanted to write first: It is very unusual for me, if I want to follow the playing of someone who plays left-handed. I don't know, what's the problem is, but possibly the only reason is, that some things you are used to seem to be normal. A real shock was my first visit of a friend who owns many lutes. When I wanted to try them - that was a real disaster. He also plays left-handed ... ;-) Best regards Markus David, nice to hear you play baroque lute, although I must say that it really means Weichenberger is really fine music and a little bit underestimated. But as far as I know we cannot be wholly sure, that these pieces are by Weichenberger, because there is only a W at the end of every piece. BTW - I don't think these pieces ar by Weiss. The source for the pieces, you uploaded, is PRAHA, Státní archív (CZ-Pa) Ms. RPI 504, cf. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2type=msms=CZ-PaRPI504lang=eng and not PRAHA, Národní knihovna CSR - Universitní knihovna (CZ-Pu) Ms. II.Lb.27, which consist of fine music also, but for sure not by Weichenberger, but possibly by Eckstein - if A.V.E means A[nton] V[?] E[ckstein] at all. Best regards Markus David van Ooijen schrieb: Like Arto, I have fallen for an 11-course. Mine is made by Richard Berg, after Burckholtzer/Edlinger. It's 68cm and strung, naturally, all-gut with Gamut Pistoys on the basses. Last Wednesday I had my first concert, all music by Weichenberger, and here are the clips I made yesterday: Chaconne in a-moll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiQSWBxUSAg Allemande in d-moll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsGDtKGXHsg Courante in d-moll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oaC8Rc6Rm4 Sarabande in d-moll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XQfBIt-AkI David - still a lot to learn, but not bad for a beginner. ;-) -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: D-minor tuning and ET? Remedy?
Sometimes I also lowered the 4th course a little bit, what works pretty well and sounds very good in F maj, d min etc. Unfortunately we don't have any historical evidence about tuning temperaments, as far as I know. But I'm pretty sure that the lutenists then tuned the lute in a tempered way. Sometimes I'm wondering, if the Weiss anecdote by Reichardt on tuning the lute could be meant in such a way. The content in short: Weiss, who was then 50, was asked by someone, how long he played the lute. Weiss answered: 20 years. A friend of him, who knew that he played the lute already with 10 wanted to contradict. But Weiss said immediately: That's true, but 20 years I tuned (The German text is below). I know, there are many possibilities to get the deeper meaning of this. It could be owed to the Mattheson quote that a lutenist tunes half of his life. But it ! could ! also be a hint, that Weiss sought for the ideal temperament for a long time. We should not forget that the lute was beloved especially for her excellent sound - and our instrument sounds better tempered with no doubt (my personal opinion). Best regards Markus P.S.: The German Der große Lautenist Weiße antwortete im fünfzigsten Jahre seines Alters auf die Frage, wie lange er die Laute spiele? „zwanzig Jahr.“ Einer seiner Freunde, der gewiß wußte, daß Weiße schon im zehnten Jahre seines Alters die Laute spielte, wollte ihm widersprechen, er fiel ihm aber ins Wort und sagte: „schon recht; allein zwanzig Jahr stimmte ich.“ So stimmt der Mann von Komplimente unaufhörlich an seinem Leben und kommt eben so selten zum Genüßen, wie der Lautenspieler zum spielen. Nein, daß menschliche Leben ist zu kurz um Komplimente zu machen und die Laute zu spielen. (Johann Friedrich Reichardt, Musikalisches Kunstmagazin, vol. 1, Stück 3. Berlin, 1782, p. 158.) chriswi...@yahoo.com schrieb: I've found that Kirnberger III works pretty well. I used it for a while although I'm back to ET nowadays. Chris --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com wrote: From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: D-minor tuning and ET? Remedy? To: Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de, baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 8:36 PM I agree with Mathias. ET works best for d minor tuned lutes. ed At 05:16 PM 12/11/2009, Mathias Rösel wrote: I never tried to get MT on the 11c lute. Taking the a's and fourth frets a bit down seems about all you can do if you absolutely want to. I don't because IMHO 11c lutes in D minor tuning were invented, so to say, for ET. The same applies to the predecessors and company of the D minor tuning, i. e. so-called transitional tunings. Mathias wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi schrieb: Dear baroque lutenists, getting into the d-minor tuned lute's secrets seems to be an interesting task! Among the many first impressions - partly good, partly not so good - was one of the latter: it looked like you really should get used to the equal temperament - to me quite heavy a sacrifice. Anyhow, after asking my former lute teacher and taking a look to his 11-courser, I got the idea that at least you can make your F-major and some other keys better by tuning the a's a little bit lower and taking the 4th fret a little lower; then there you have the a(low), f# and c#. All of them good to be low in many important keys. Anyhow g-minor seems to be problematic: eb's and f#'s seem always want to be on the same fret in the neigboring strings. And I guess there will be no good D-major unless you tune the 1st and 4th to f#. They also used that scordatura in the 17th anf 18th centuries. Any comments, experiences or hints in getting better intonation than the ET in d-minor tuned lutes? Best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: b-lute mss catalogue incipits?
Sorry, my answer didn't reach the baroque lute list, as I only sent it to Taco. One problem could be, that django at the moment doesn't support output of abctab, but as it did (or at least stringwalker did), that might be very easy to include! I'm not sure, if fronimo does support it. Best regards Markus Markus Lutz schrieb: The big advantage of abctab is IMHO, that you can write the tabs more easily within one line of ASCII. Best regards Markus Taco Walstra schrieb: On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 12:06 +0200, David van Ooijen wrote: On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Markus Lutzmar...@gmlutz.de wrote: I would very much appreciate to be able to include incipits also. . Probably the best would be to have them in abctab2ps, as this format is very agreed and multi-platform and free/open source. after all these years there are still only 2 open formats: tab and abc. Both have their problems but it's still better than proprietarity formats like django or whatever. Unfortunately more sofisticated formats like musicxml do not support tablature. I had a look at the Weiss page. Nice and clear, very helpful. It would be nice to have this in the b-lute catalogue, too. Is it possible to automatically compare abctab2ps files with each other? If, say, 60% of the data in the first few measures would be the same, it could be an indication for a concordance and be worth to have a look at. Then, of course, this data should be made available in the catalogue. abctab is plain ascii, so you can easily see differences when opened in a text editor or a program which is able to show differences in text files (in linux it's simply called diff). Still, using a program for retrieving concordances of pieces written with tab or abc is certainly not possible: if two equal pieces are written in a different key you will find only differences But what's wrong with manual work done by a large community and a small group of specialists who are reponsible to check outcomes and updating the results in a free online database? Taco To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: b-lute mss catalogue incipits?
Hello David, since I haven't much time at the moment only a short answer. I would very much appreciate to be able to include incipits also. If they have been made, the inclusion would be no problem at all (cf. the Weiss works list on the Weiss site ( http://www.slweiss.com or .de ). There I have included incipits as pictures, that I have printed from django files. It would be good to have them in one format - IMHO. Probably the best would be to have them in abctab2ps, as this format is very compact and it could be included into the files of the manuscripts we already have. As far as I know it should be possible to draw them automatically by the program on the webpage ... Best regards - will be back later! Markus David van Ooijen schrieb: 2009/7/29 Grzegorz Joachimiak gjoachim...@wp.pl: An open question. Would it be feasible, given all the goodwill of the people on this list and all the mss they have stashed away, to provide the wonderful on-line catalogue of Manuscripts for Baroque Lute by Peter Steur and Markus Lutz (hear hear!) with incipits of all the entries? I think that is great idea. If I could help with b-lute mss from Poland .. By the way I have second an open question. What do you think about notifing concern work on the some project, for example like preparing this big b-lute mss catalogue? I think this information will be helpful to escape make a duplicate. Yes, that was why I called it an open question and not a proposal. If I really want this thing, I could simply start with it. But I'm sure more people would be happy with the result, and would be happy to cooperate. But first, it's up to Peter and Markus to decide if and how they would like to see this incorporated in their magnum opus. It's all very well if we all send in our Django/Fronimo/GuitarPro/Finale/Sibelius/pdf/jpg of the few first measures of some manuscript we happen to have on our shelves, but when they decide on acii tab or tiff-scan after all, it's giving them a lot of trouble. And everybody working on Saizenay at the same time is not very porductive either. An inventory of what's already out there (e.g. De Visée thematical index, Austrian lute mss index) What's the url of your Weiss-site, so we can have a look? David -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: hasse opera arias lute ms.
There are also some interesting examples of d minor basso continuo in a Harrach ms (nr. 120), that is now in Vienna. Best regards Markus Mathias Rösel schrieb: sometimes used their 13s for continuo even if they said otherwise. r. Did anyone actually say they didn't? Well, yes, or so I seem to remember 8) Although there's sufficient evidence (Fundamenta der Lauten=Musique, Prague; Opera arias by Hasse, Leipzig), some modern authors insist that swan necks are for solo, solely. See Prague university library Ms. II Kk 51, Which is available from the German Lute Society... or Perrine, of course, or the statements by Weiss and Baron about d-minor continuo. Baron was speaking about the German theorbo which lacks the 1st course of the lute. Did you try d - a - f - d - A - G (plus F E D C BBb AA GG FF) for thorough-bass? I have so far not done so, but I suppose it's practically different from the D minor tuning of the lute. Considering the bass register, the German theorbo is more of an arciliuto than of a French-German baroque lute. -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Julien Blovin
Hello Per Kjetil, the Uffenbach quote is very interesting. Uffenbach is a very interesting person regarding lute playing - I think that most of his writings is not yet checked systematically on this. From Uffenbach there are many quotes that relate to lute players (French lutenists, Weiss and others), he met on his many voyages. The 20 pieces for Angelique are probably in the source a) Tim mentions. Best regards Markus Per Kjetil Farstad schrieb: Hello Gregory In addition to the information given by Markus, Blovin is also mentioned in In Eberhardt Preussner, Die musikalischen Reisen des Herrn von Uffenbach, aus einem Reisetagebuch des Johann Friedrich A. von Uffenbach aus Frankfurt a. M. 1712-1716, p. 79, we get this information: While in Italy (Rome) Uffenbach met Julien Bloivin, a competent lute player who became Uffenbach's teacher. Bloivin was French and belonged to the Pope's guard. He was one of a very few lutenists in Rome at that time (1715) and is said to have played cleanly and clearly. James Tyler, in his book The Guitar and its Music mentions 20 pieces for angA(c)lique, an MS (no shelf no.) belonging to Julien Blovin, now in Germany- Mainz, private library of Helmut Federhofer (Meyer 1994, p. 202) Best regards from Per Kjetil Farstad [1]www.pkfarstad.com Den 4. mars. 2009 kl. 10.58 skrev Grzegorz Joachimiak: Dear friends, Could someone tell me something about Julien Blovin or where I should find something about him. It is very important for me. Regards Gregory Joachimiak ATRAKCYJNE NIERUCHOMOAe^1ACI W ZAKOPANEM !!! Apartamenty, Domy, DziaAe^1Aki, Pensjonaty, Hotele, Lokale uAe^1AA-oytkowe... Kliknij: [2]http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=www.nieruchomosciwzakopanem.plsid=652 To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.pkfarstad.com/ 2. http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=www.nieruchomosciwzakopanem.plsid=652 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Silvius Leopold W.
Hello Bernd and Jurek, I only understand: Weiss, Grodkow, Jerzy Zak ... So Grodkow now finally celebrates Weiss as son of the town, isn't it? Best regards Markus Bernd Haegemann schrieb: Wow, while we are talking ..others are already making an idol of SLW :-) http://www.nto.pl/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090123/POWIAT05/92517093Template=printpicart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de Homepages http://www.slweiss.com (Silvius Leopold Weiss)
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 11 or 13
Benjamin Narvey schrieb: Dear Mathias, It's interesting you say that. I'd be curious to know what you and other people on this list think about the differences (advantages/disadvantages) between rider lutes and swan neck lutes. I think the main difference between these lute types is one of balance vs. extra resonance. Very tough call. And transportation issues...I already have some problems with my 11c on certain flights. Does anyone have anything to add on this count? I think swan necks win hands down here... Dear Benjamin, I'm not sure about that. I sometimes travelled with my swan-necked-lute with a train. And it is always not to easy to get it somewhere, as most racks in German trains are too small for nearly every luggage. Walking through many people is possibly a little bit easier with other forms of lutes as they are shorter, but who knows. With swan necked lutes basses and melody is better seperated, which might be good for later music, but for sure isn't ideal for earlier music for instance for French lute music. Also the basses are stronger and that makes live easier for any ensemble playing - as Mathias pointed out also. So it is the ideal instrument for lute concertos etc. Although the lute might be too gentle anyway ... About the disadvantage with stopped basses (courses 9-11) Mathias has written already. I actually began playing baroque lute on a borrowed 13c rider lute, but it has been so long since I've had one that I'm not sure I can still trust those initial impressions. Sadly, I've never had both types together to make a comparison. I must say that I like 11c lutes better than 13c lutes so far, but then this might be simply because these are the lutes that modern makers are getting right. Miguel has told me something about different barring of French eleven course lutes and later baroque lutes. So that might also be a difference of sound. Maybe others can say something on that. Unfortunately I also haven't been able to test that ... Best regards, Markus All best, Benjamin I'm one of the culprits. Or I was, that is. My first BL just had to be a swan-neck, it couldn't be else. It was so impressive to impress other people ^_^ Today, I'd love to sell it and get me a normal 13c bass rider lute. Swan necks don't offer proper advantages IMHO. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Thirteen Course Conundrum
Dear Benjaming, BTW - I read today in our newspaper that Picasso very often used the pictures of others to copy and work on them. So he never claimed to be creative in a way to get everything out of himself. What does that have to do with Weiss? Some people pointed out regarding the inventions of Weiss, that he didn't invent the Swan Neck. There had been already similar lutes, angeliques etc. We also had 12 courses on the baroque lute sometimes before. So Weiss was connecting some ideas that had been in the flow before. Maybe we could say he synthesised these points very creatively together with the lute builders of his time. But isn't that the way, all inventions are like? People combine things that maybe noone before combined in that way. Best regards Have there been any developments or refinements to Lundberg's thesis in recent years? All best, Benjamin 2009/1/10 Markus Lutz [1]mar...@gmlutz.de Dear Benjamin, indeed the 13-course lute came into sight around 1719/20 probably in cooperation with S.L.Weiss. The first examples of this extended lute we have in the London ms. It was for sure a bass rider lute, because there are few stops on the lower corses (even on the 11th course). Later - probably around 1730 - the swan necked baroque lute appeared, probably in cooperation between Weiss and Hofmann. Best regards Markus Benjamin Narvey schrieb: Dear Collected Wisdom, It struck me this week that I really don't know when the thirteen-course rider lute developed. We know from Weiss's correspondence that he developed the swan-neck lute c.1719-20, but what do we know about its rider cousin? I have to now uncritically assumed that the rider lute came before the swan neck, presumably thinking so because it is visually closer to a conventional eleven course, and we tend to assume today an evolutionary paradigm that explains the lute as gradually becoming bigger over time (6c-7c-8c-9c-10c-11c-12c-13c...) I realise this paradigm is by no means historical or even accurate - it does not account for the huge renaissance bass lutes such as Hartung's instrument in C in Nuernberg, or some smaller baroque lutes that one finds in various collections - and yet it persists. But perhaps the rider lute may be a later development than the swan neck when seen from the point of view of string technology: perhaps the extended neck was needed in order to accommodate the lower tessitura of the 12th and 13th courses before the introduction (and more importantly, the acceptance among players) of wound strings (initially developed in the 1670's, they seem to have taken a long time to catch on) that permitted the same pitches to be played at the shorter string length of the rider model. So, did the development go 11c - swan neck - rider lute, or 11c - rider lute - swan neck? I realise that this is in a sense a bogus question, both because the 11c never went out of fashion, and because the rider lute and swan neck model coexisted (i.e., one did not cancel out the other: for example, we know that Weiss had both, since he at once developed the swan neck all while writing pieces that occasionally demand the stopped 9th and 10th courses necessitating a rider model.) That said, the chronology of the rider lute's development is something we could know about. When are the first pieces that use 13 courses anyway? I presume around 1700-1715? Do these early pieces indicate anything regarding lute type? Anything anyone on this list may have to say about this subject would be much appreciated! As ever, Benjamin -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstrasse 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail [3]mar...@gmlutz.de Homepages [4]http://www.slweiss.com (Silvius Leopold Weiss) -- Benjamin Narvey Luthiste: [5]http://www.luthiste.com -- References 1. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de 4. http://www.slweiss.com/ 5. http://www.luthiste.com/ -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de Homepages http://www.die-soehne-edgars.de (Die Söhne Edgars) http://www.slweiss.com (Silvius Leopold Weiss)
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 11 or 13
Hi Theo, you can play many Weiss pieces on an 11 course lute - and many of them had been intended for it. The later ones might be sometimes a little bit tricky, as the added basses give more freedom for the leading voices. But on the other side: If some guitarist can play these pieces on 6 course, why shouldn't it be impossible on an 11 course. I would never say that 11 course lutes are inferior to 13 course lutes. In fact they are easier to be played. More basses - more problems with the thumb ;-). And there is plenty of good music for it (beside French music Austrian, Bohemian, German etc.). Best regards Markus P.S.: I couldn't hardly resist to write Theo, apostle of the 11-course ;-). Tadeyev schrieb: Hi Markus, Sorry if I came on strong; wasn't my plan! I am just always feeling 'protective' of the 11 course, since most people see it as a 'less valuable' younger brother of a 13 course lute, or only interesting for French music. So every chance I have to remind people about how broad and useful the 11 course really can be I end up putting my 2 cents in :-)). Like everyone goes crazy with getting harpsichords of 5 octaves, while the majority of the literature doesn't need/require it. Kind regards, Theo To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de Homepages http://www.die-soehne-edgars.de (Die Söhne Edgars) http://www.slweiss.com (Silvius Leopold Weiss)
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: a very basic question
In fact in baroque times it seemed to be the rule to play an appogiatura as long or longer than half of the note. In a 3/4 measure an appogiatura on an dotted minim should even last for two quarters (2 thirds of the note). But very often in tablature appogiaturas are the only ornaments, meaning also trills ... Weiss for instance uses nearly solely this sign also for trills. If you look at Quantz you also see, that not only ornamented notes can be ornamented, but also nearly every other note - with a great liberty (sometimes in his examples the melody can hardly be reckognized ;-) ). So I think it is mainly a matter of (good) taste, when and how often to trill notes (for sure it can be annoying if that is used too often)). Best regards Markus Dale Young schrieb: C.P.E. Bach wrote that in the appogiatura, the dissonance should be held AT LEAST half the value of the written note. Most preformers cheat on this, making these graces sound more like annoying speach impediments. Even more annoying, I also hear single comas played as trills. We all need to listen to good keyboard interpretations of music from our time period and geographical region of choice. There are a lot of good keyboard players. Not so many lutenists. So many players interpret the comma ornament as an appogiatura in a measured way. If this is correct, why didn't the composer just write a note? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepages http://www.die-soehne-edgars.de (Die Söhne Edgars) http://www.slweiss.com (Silvius Leopold Weiss)
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Cardin's Weiss CDs
Hello José Luis, I think you should contact Michel Cardin directly: [EMAIL PROTECTED] His homepage is: http://www.michelcardin.com Best regards Markus José Luis schrieb: Hello all I find out of print the Michel Cardin's Weiss CDs. Please, do you know some site where still have units? Thanks in advance. Best wishes, Jose Luis Rojo -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepages http://www.die-soehne-edgars.de (Die Söhne Edgars) http://www.slweiss.com (Silvius Leopold Weiss)
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Silvius Leopold Weiss: The Silesian Master of Lute
Hi Edward, the recording is a new production that was recorded in the studio of the Polish radio in Warsaw from December, 16th-18th of 2006. The content: Sonate 33,1-8 in F-Dur Tombeau Hartig S-C 11* Sonate 18,1-6 in D-Dur with S-C 2,1 as Prelude Capriccio in D-Dur S-C 25* Ciacona in g-moll S-C 14,6 Best regards Markus Edward Martin schrieb: I noticed on Amazon what appears to be a new lute recording by Jakob Lindberg, Silvius Leopold Weiss: The Silesian Master of Lute. I am wondering if it is a reprint of his other Weiss record recorded on his original lute, or if it is new. Amazon does not say what is on the record. Does anyone know? ed Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepages http://www.die-soehne-edgars.de (Die Söhne Edgars) http://www.slweiss.com (Silvius Leopold Weiss)
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Narvey article online/Dm continuo in Italy
Hello Benjamin and others, there are many sources for ensemble playing with 11-course lute before and after 1700 (Bohemian-Austrian repertoire: Weichenberger, von Radolt, et others). For continuo there are not that many direct sources, but I want to remind of Fundamenta der Lauten Musique und zugleich der Composition, probably from Prague after 1700 - as Mathias Rösel has published it for the German lute society he can tell more details on it. It has many examples for written out basso continuo parts for d-minor lute. There is another source in a Vienna archive from the Harrach family (not included in Meyer ...), that has some pages of written out basso continuo passages. The other sources are indirect - that the lute in Germany also was used for singing (you can see that in the subtitle of many period song books) and ensemble playing etc. BTW one more hint: There is a big choral book in Krakau for d-minor lute, that also could be understood as set out basso continuo, if it is true that it uses the basses of the Freylinghausen choral book - it has more than 200 chorales set by Sciurus. I only know some of them in a Rust ms, but not yet compared them to Freylinghausen. Best regards Markus On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:59:09 , Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Rob, Regarding the point of d-minor continuo in Italy, there is in fact other documentation of its use apart from that of Weiss. There is a source *by an Italian*, the theorist and composer Pier Francesco Valentini (1586-1654), who discusses at some length d-minor continuo playing in his *Il leuto anatomizzato ... nelle quale si dimostrano 12 diversi ordini di sonare et intervolare trasportato nel leuto,* a very early source about d-minor continuo written in 1642, only a few years after the tuning came out in France itself. I didn't know about this source until after my article went to print, and this could have added a lot of juicy nuance. This source, written in Italian by an Italian for Italians, presumably attests to a school of d-minor playing there. Also, if this was already happening in 1642, how had this grown by Weiss's time a century later? This subject needs further exploration Does anyone on this list know anything more about this? BN On the other hand, I have not managed to talk myself into definit ely choosing the German tuning on my 86cms theorbo, but I have the possibility of experimenting. And while it is OK to use an Italian instrument for German baroque music (it was definitely used, as Tim Burris has pointed out), it is less plausible using a German instrument on anything other than German music. Benjamin argues that Weiss's presence in Italy indicates that at least one player was using dm tuning, however it is not certain that Weiss had developed his 'sans chanterelle' tuning whilst there. If not, what was Weiss playing when sitting in with Scarlatti's orchestral band? Had the swan-necked so-called theorbo come into existence during Weiss's Italian trip, 1710-14? Seems a bit early to me. I'm sure someone reading this will know when swans flew in to the scene? So, if Weiss still just had his lute, was he playing continuo at all, and if he was, did he use an Italian-tuned instrument? And did the problems he encountered lead to his development of the German Continuo Theorbo when he got back to Germany? Or did he create it when in Rome? So, there are a lot of questions, and, as I say, I have not yet convinced myself one way or another. But one thought keeps bugging me: Weiss was by far the greatest composer for the baroque lute, and we know that he spent a lot of his time as a continuo player. We also know the tuning he used. Baron states that it is the common tuning of theorboes in Germany. So how many of us are actually doing it? Probably fewer than half a dozen... Almost like playing Dowland on guitars... www.rmguitar.info To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Pfr. Markus Lutz Schulstr. 11 D-88422 Bad Buchau Tel.: 0 75 82 / 23 24 Fax: 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Prelude source?
Hello Henk, in the recording catalogue of Peter van Dessel I find a note: performer's own prelude ? The sonata is Smith-Crawford (S-C) 43 - you can compare it on http://www.slweiss.com under recordings/Solo sonatas . Best regards Markus On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 17:34:12 , henk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --=_NextPart_001_001B_01C7F0AC.2382BC00 Hello, I am new in this mailing list. I am playing several suites of Weiss and one of them is Dresden # XVI in a minor. H. Smith has recorded this suite (see attachment) but he is playing a prelude I cannot find anywhere. Did he composed it himself or has anyone an idea where I can find it? Kind regards, Henk Pakker The Netherlands --_NextPart_001_001B_01C7F0AC.2382BC00 -- Markus Lutz Schulstr. 11 D-88422 Bad Buchau Tel: 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax: 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Plainte - Weiss
Do you really think? ;-). As far as I know, there is a letter from 1728, that shows that Weiss had been buying tea for the Lobkowitzs. But I don't think, that this quote does refer to this deal ... Also Tim didn't say anything about tea in this context - at least not in my archives of the baroque lute list. I think, we have to take that quote as it is, as a plainte on a noble man, who hasn't given the promised money for a musical service he did: Maybe he played for him or sent some music . Best regards Markus On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:52:44 -0400, Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apparently so. RT There was an exchange with TCrawford apropos. And Tim used to join Weiss for tea? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html _ Need personalized email and website? Look no further. It's easy with Doteasy $0 Web Hosting! Learn more at www.doteasy.com -- Markus Lutz Schulstr. 11 D-88422 Bad Buchau Tel: 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax: 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: How to?
Hello Bob and Ralf, I also had suggested this to Ralf in a mail, as 9/8 clearly has 3 strong beats and can be understood as triplets. BTW - there is another piece with the same time signs (S-C 51,6 Presto), where IMHO it couldn´t at all be interpreted in another way. Also it flows musically much better if the pulse stays the same: Dotted quarter in 9/8 = quarter in 3/4 . So it is a play between ternary and binary rhythm, which according to Donnington had been even used in some compositions during baroque times at the same time in different voices: one was notated in 3/4 the other in 9/8. Best regards Markus Robert Barto schrieb: Ralf, It seems clear to me that the 8ths don't stay the same. The 9/8 sections should just be thought of as triplets with the pulse (quarters) staying the same. (I would guess that Weiss writes 9/8 so that he doesn't have to indicate triplets the whole time.) Robert To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 18th-century right hand fingering (short)
The ring finger isn't demonic at all ;-). I have put online an example of the Dresden ms (S-C 25,7: Sarabande in Bb - Reich/248), where we can see in Silvius handwriting, that he used the ring finger for an arpeggio (last line). http://www.slweiss.de/RH_Dl248.jpg 1) It is necessary to work on the spreading of the fingers. There are examples, where index and middle finger have to been spread quite far. 2) Both are possible Best Markus On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 20:05:35 -0500, Dale Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are two examples of fingering technical issues that frequently present themselves (and make my brain hurt): 1) a three note chord or arpeggio, diapason (thumb obviously), third course (index obviously), first string, second or (satanic) third finger? Do we learn to split and gauge our index and second fingers (hard) or do we use the natural separation in index/ ring to place the pluckers (easy but suspect). How about first string with forth course, or fifth, or sixth. Our fingers can certainly spread that wide. 2) a four note arpeggio starting with thumb on a diapason. Do we then alternate index, middle, index or index, middle, (demonic) ring finger? Inquiring minds want, no, need to know. Nerd de jour Dale - Original Message - From: Markus Lutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Barocklautenliste baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:51 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 18th-century right hand fingering (short) On 08 Jan 2007 12:46 GMT, Mathias R÷sel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unquestionable it is important to think of the fingering and use them deliberately. It is very useful to study the way the fingers were used in French lute music (i.e. m - strong, i - weak). That's kind of a rule in renaissance music. In French baroque, it isn't. I wasn't aware of that, but I thought there still would be at least a tendency to that principle. But for instance the Weiss Bourree of S-C 25 in g minor has in the Dresden ms (246 in the Reich edition) some clear RH fingerings. At the beginning there is the rythm 1/8 1/8 1/4 (4th course 1st c. 1st c.). It begins with beat one - in any case a strong beat. SLWeiss indicates i (one point) at the beginning, so that you can play the notes on the 1st course m i or m a or m m. I'm in doubt if that dot is a 1st finger sign, as the 1st finger dot is usually put beneath or at the right of the letteer, as you can see in measures 3 and 9 of the allemande. I sometimes also wonder, if a point really means the index. It also could possibly be a staccato sign - but that doesn't make sense here. If it is that 1st finger dot, though, it signifies the obvious. You don't usually play an opening note on the 4th course with middle finger and then quickly jump to the 1st course so as to play the following quaver with the forefinger. I wouldn't do that either - but one could do it, if one wants to stay with the principle of playing the m on heavier notes. The interesting thing is, as you say, how the third note was intended to be played. Ring finger or not ring finger that is the question: - ª---r-r-ª ª .. ...ª ª---ª ª ª ª---ª ª ª ª-r-ª ª . ª ª---ª ª ª ª-r-ª ª ª ª Unfortunately, the 2nd and 3rd notes aren't marked with dots, so we won't know for sure. You are right, we can't be sure of that. But I don't think that there would be something wrong with the ring finger. Unfortunately we don't have any detailed description, what the Weissian way of playing means regarding technique. Anyway the autograph fingerings of Weiss are very interesting, althought they can hardly be read sometimes. The instructions of Kniebandl are a slightly modified version of Le Sage, isn't it? Markus Mathias So on the strong beats in this Bourree the weak index would be used nearly throughtout. If Weiss still wanted to use m as strong finger, in my eyes it wouldn't have been difficult to play m on 4th c. and i m on the 1st c. - isn't it? You could say: He marked the exception from the rule. But with the same right I can say: He taught a pupil with these examples how to normally play these things. Anyway: the main point is to bring out the true nature of the melody and to try to express the affects that are given in the music. Best Markus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstr. 11 D-88422 Bad Buchau Tel: 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax: 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Markus Lutz Schulstr. 11 D-88422 Bad Buchau Tel: 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax: 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 18th-century right hand fingering (short)
Hi Robert, I can only concur with that. If I look at Weiss autograph fingerings there are only few for the right hand - and only once with the ring finger. But regarding left hand there are many examples of his personal way to play. And maybe the main principle that we can learn from it is his huge flexibility. He played with or without barre, in a very close and wide way (one finger per fret) etc. Probably we should learn to play with (later German) and without (esp. French) ring finger to be able to use it well. Best Markus Robert Barto schrieb: Bernd, Ohne Ringfinger hat man mehr Fantasie! There is definitely something to that. But some music was written for and some without the ring finger. And if they didn't tell us specifically, we have to figure it out. Robert To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A query from Bob Barto
Hi Jorge, as far as I know, Mathias is right. There are even in later mss only few hints that the ringfinger was used at all - but there are only few RH fingerings at all. Although I think that Falkenhagen etc. were using the ringfinger, there are to my knowledge no direct RH fingerings at all. Weiss seems to have used it at least in some ending arpeggios, but if he did use it more regularily isn´t clear at all. Best Markus Mathias Rösel schrieb: Jorge Torres [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Sorry, the designation I mentioned is from a MS for 13 course with instructions by LeSage, noted in Doug Smith and Peter Danner's article How Beginners...Should Proceed, JLSA, 1976. Please forgive me I'm picky, but neither the instructions of LeSage 1695 include anything about RH ringfinger. Dot beneath letter means forefinger, small vertical line beneath letter means thumb, no sign means middle finger; that's it. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Barto CD vol 8
Mine even arrived yesterday. But my wife has confiscated it - not before Christmas ... ;-) I wish you all a merry Christmas Markus On 23 Dec 2006 10:42 GMT, Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I ordered the CD on the 21st, and it has today been delivered. -- Markus Lutz Schulstr. 11 D-88422 Bad Buchau Tel: 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax: 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] lutenists and Bach
Arthur Ness schrieb: muster, imo. Didn't lutenists come to Bach in pairs? Strecker Sciurius? Weiss Kropfgans? Hello Arthur, I know of the source for the visit of Weiss and Kropfgans in 1739. It is in a letter of a nephew of J.S.Bach. Where can we read from the visit of Strecker Sciurius? BTW - I know Sciurius from his intabulations of chorales, but never heard anything of a lutenist named Strecker. Can you give us more details? For Sciurius there are some details in Per Kjetil Farstad´s diss, German galant lute music in the 18th century: Sciuro (Ciurus, Ciurius, Sciurus, Scyurus), Johann Michael (ca. 1700 - after 1754) was apparently Bach´s lutenist in Cöthen. He was a singer and lutenist. In 1724, Sciuro was employed in Cöthen as Vocal-Musicus. He resigned from this position in 1754. Ernst Gottlieb Baron visited Cöthen on two occasions. His second visit was in 1737 when he stayed for severel months and probably met Sciuro. His arrangements of chorales are to be found in two Berlin manuscripts now in Krakau: Ms 40150 (some of the chorales of 40151 and 2 Rust-Sonatas) and 40151 (more than 200 chorales). Best Markus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: lutenists and Bach
Arthur Ness schrieb: That would be Elizabeth Stricker (not Strecker), lutenist in Coethen. Wife of JSB's precdecessor. I didn';t mean to suggest a visit to Leipzig. I see. Haven´t heard of her before. It is interesting that among the professional lutenists there had been some female lutenists also. There had been one in Stuttgart also: Maria Dorothea St.Pierre, later married Spurny; and also a Mrs. Compernass. It is interesting that Sciurus's chorales also appear in that manuscript associated with Rust. I long suspected they were not by Rust, and that he just used the blank pages. The cover of the Sciurius Canzoni devotti (Mus Ms 40151) has the initials C. A. A. Pr. D'A. Christina Agnes Agnera, Princess d'Anhalt-Coethen (hope I have that name OK). She was later Rust's patron when he was Kapellmesiter in Anhalt-Dessau. She studied harpsichord with JSB, but lute as well with Sciurus. Have you ever considered the Canzoni as being gathered into three-movement suites? Breitkopf advertised a partita by Sciurius (now lost?). The sonatas by Rust were written for her, I presume. Unfortunately I don´t have yet a copy of the big Sciurus-Ms. Anyway that is an interesting thought. But I´m not sure, as in fact Sciurus seemed to have only arranged existing chorale accompaignments. I thought Sciurius was Cammer-Musikus? Per Kjetil Farstad gives Vocal-Musicus. As source he mentions Bach-Jahrbuch, 1905, pp.3 and 34, as quoted in Schulze, Wer intavolierte Johann Sebastan Bachs Lautenkompositionen? - Die Musikforschung XIX (1966/I), pp. 37-38. Unfortunately I cannot look it up. Best regards Markus Regards (I'll be off-line for a week), Arthur. - Original Message - From: Markus Lutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED]; BAROQUE-LUTE-LIST baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 6:48 AM Subject: lutenists and Bach Arthur Ness schrieb: muster, imo. Didn't lutenists come to Bach in pairs? Strecker Sciurius? Weiss Kropfgans? Hello Arthur, I know of the source for the visit of Weiss and Kropfgans in 1739. It is in a letter of a nephew of J.S.Bach. Where can we read from the visit of Strecker Sciurius? BTW - I know Sciurius from his intabulations of chorales, but never heard anything of a lutenist named Strecker. Can you give us more details? For Sciurius there are some details in Per Kjetil Farstad´s diss, German galant lute music in the 18th century: Sciuro (Ciurus, Ciurius, Sciurus, Scyurus), Johann Michael (ca. 1700 - after 1754) was apparently Bach´s lutenist in Cöthen. He was a singer and lutenist. In 1724, Sciuro was employed in Cöthen as Vocal-Musicus. He resigned from this position in 1754. Ernst Gottlieb Baron visited Cöthen on two occasions. His second visit was in 1737 when he stayed for severel months and probably met Sciuro. His arrangements of chorales are to be found in two Berlin manuscripts now in Krakau: Ms 40150 (some of the chorales of 40151 and 2 Rust-Sonatas) and 40151 (more than 200 chorales). Best Markus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Barto-Weiss7
It´s available in Germany already. I have my copy since yesterday. Barto recorded two very fine sonatas. Markus Roman Turovsky schrieb: ...has appeared on Naxos' web-site. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Philippo Martino and the Salzburger Laute
Hola Ralf, yesterday I succeeded in looking up the interesting finding you have made. Indeed two of the movements of Sonata 39 are concordant to Martino pieces: Entree = Martino Sonata IV/1 (Capricio) Ballo = Martino Sonata II/2 (Ballo) For the other movements I didn't find a concordance in Martino at least. If one compares the tablature the Salzburg versions are different in some details: It is for an 11-course lute, whereas the printed versions are for 13-course lute. There are some rests in the Salzburg versions that are filled with some accompanying chords in the print. And there are some more bass notes in the Salzburg version. Although the last difference could point into the other direction I suppose that the Salzburg versions are earlier and the printed versions are overworked ones. As the two movements appear in different sonatas, they could be by Martino or they could be not by him. He wouldn't have been the first who included foreign works into his own: One Courante by Weiss in d-minor exists in two versions for flute transposed one tone higher. The first one is in a collection by Quantz, the other one appears in a print of a work by a composer named Braun. Best Markus On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 07:18:59 -0700 (PDT), Ralf Bachmann wrote: RB Hola amigos, RB RB It has been quiet in this list for some weeks now, but RB I am sure the enthusiasm is still out there à RB RB As to me, I have been working sporadically (when my RB job and family are not in the way, grrr à) on the RB Philippo Martino Trios (see below) and found out RB something interesting about this music in the so RB called Salzburg Lautencodex MIII-25, more precisely in RB the Sonata 39 in B-major, which has no title on the RB score but is described in the Index as RB ôXXXIX Liuto Violino Basso RB Authore Christ: ô RB RB This sonata consists of 4 movements named RB Entrée (B-major), Ballo (g-minor), Cicill. (B-major) RB and Menuet (B-major) RB RB When I first played this pieces, I immediately RB recognized them to be works by Philippo Martino! RB (To be fair, since this Salzburg source consists RB mostly of chamber music, of which only the lute parts RB have survived, [apart from some interesting music by RB Weiss and Lauffensteiner that is real solo music with RB some added parts] this is something only for extreme RB enthusiasts ,-) RB To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
