Re: [talk-ph] request for testing 10m contour for garmin (was Re: Groundtruth.)
Groundtruth (contour) runs on my mapsource. I initially loaded 6 tiles (from east to west -- Quezon sierra madre, Rizal to Batangas, NCR to Bataan) on my 76CSx, together with the latest osmph_garmin. They show on top of each other (transparent). Didn't crash on my garmin. However, with the low-res screen of 76CSx (Details set to Normal), the contours on the mountain portion is only usable (readable) at zoomscale 2km below. At 3km above, the 100m contour lines tends to clutter the mountainous portion of the map (fortunately there aren't many roads POI's there). Redraw speed was ok. I didn't notice any problem (on normal street-level zoom), but I'm doing only around 30kmh, coz i'm also collecting tracks at that time. But on 'over zoom mode' (12-20meters scale), redraw speed slows down a bit, but still acceptable (while driving); Although this will not be an issue at walking-pace of mountain-hiking gps users. I don't know what will happen if I load the entire groundtruth map (around 180mb) together with osmphgarmin map. let's see later if my unit will crash :-) Accuracy Test: 76CSx with External Antenna on top of car (roughly 1-1/2 meter above ground) GPS signal availability strength was very good (EPE alternating between 2 to 4 meters) On initial test on Antipolo Hills this morning (an area above 120meters elevation), I parked my car exactly on top of a few 10m-contour lines that I crossed along the road, and compared their Elevations with the readings of Barometric Sensor Elevation of 76CSx. Not bad !!! (there's only 3-5 meters difference, sometimes exactly the same like on the 10meter contour lines). Well, considering other factors like height/location of antenna on top of my car low EPE of gps, initial test says we can possibly navigate in zero-visibility mountain area (using STRM 10meter contour data) with lesser chance of falling of a cliff. I wish other people can test this (STRM data) map on other higher areas to verify my findings (if high-accuracy is same on other places). On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:31 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone interested to test this? 10m contour interval for Garmin devices. Download the link below (~200 MB): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/607635/osm-ph_gps_maps/10mcontour_ph_winmapsource_latest.exe The contour were generated from SRTM data using Groundtruth. The data was divided into 0.75 grid tile. Beware: Loading the full Philippine map crashed my device! Please test if this works for your own device. I am interested in the following scenarios: 1. If you only add a limited number of contour tiles, does it crash your unit? 2. If you add only the contour and not the osm-ph map, does it crash as well? 3. At what zoom level does it crash (watch the map scale)? Enjoy! On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:41 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Last time I checked, groudtruth uses the cgpsmapper to compile garmin maps. The free cgpsmapper has a lot of limitations (i.e. limited routing), unless you but the pro version. However, I used groundtruth to generate contour maps based on SRTM. I intend to provide free download soon. If anyone wants them for testing, let me know. My unit crashed when I loaded the whole country's 10m elevation contour! On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:47 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Here's the original blog post (Dec. '08) by Ground Truth's creator about the difference between his tool and the popular mkgmap tool, which maning uses to create the OSM-PH Garmin maps. http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/groundtruth-a-new-garmin-mapmaking-tool Take note that the post is back in 2008. Things probably changed a lot since then. On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 7:59 PM, Jim Morgan j...@datalude.com wrote: Just found this tool for making Garmin images from OSM data GroundTruth v1.0.0.0 by Igor Brejc Generates Garmin maps from OpenStreetMap data Visit http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GroundTruth for more info Also a helpful step-by-step guide. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GroundTruth_For_Dummies I don't have a Garmin. But I thought it might be useful. Looks quite customisable as well. You can make eg a hiking map using a different set of rules. groundtruth makemap -rules=http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GroundTruth_Hiking_Map; Jim -- datalude: information security e: j...@datalude.com Philippines: +63 2 403 1311 / mob: +63 920 912 5830 Hong Kong: +852 6840 6693 w: http://www.datalude.com/ ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning
[talk-ph] Fwd: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
A reminder to add useful comments in your changesets. -- Forwarded message -- From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org Date: Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 7:18 PM Subject: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments To: OSM t...@openstreetmap.org Dear all, we've had the changeset feature for quite a while now and I believe it is very helpful in a number of ways. I can select an area and see the edit history for it (soon, hopefully, even ignoring those world-spanning changesets). I can click on a username and see what that user was up to in the last month (or at least what they thought they were up to). It is so much easier to read a short phrase about an edit than having to look at the area and history of affected objects. There are two groups of people however who refuse to put in proper changeset comments, and instead write ..., some mapping, fixed stuff, or even none of your business. One group consists of vandals and morons who never wanted to be part of the community in the first place; who consider any srutiny about their edits an invasion of their right to map crap at best, or want to hide what they're doing at worst. They write ... as a shorthand for kiss my ass community. It is useless to try and talk reason into these people so I won't even try. The other group consists of well-meaning mappers who are valuable members of our community but who perceive the need to enter a changeset comment as a kind of nagging, nannying, and who might be tempted to enter a useless comment as a form of protest against that. I'm sure everyone who has to work with version control systems of any sort knows the feeling - change one line of code and then have to write two lines of commit comment! To them, I say: Yes, you're right, it can be a pain sometimes, but if you practice it for a while, it will be an easy routine. If writing English takes you too long, use your national language, that's no problem. And you don't have to write long sentences, a few words are sufficient. But that little bit of time you spend when committing your changes adds so much value! OpenStreetMap is not about the data, it is about the community, and the community is exactly who benefits from your changeset comment - someone checking edits in an area, maybe even preparing something for the press to demonstrate how many people are working in an area (and how diverse their work is), someone wanting to get a quick idea of what another community member's area of expertise is... all that becomes easy with proper changeset comments. Changeset comments can even be messages to other community members - they see what you're doing and they might start to help out or do the same in their area. Don't be fooled; the small changeset comment that you enter when uploading stuff *will* be read by many people. Done well, changeset comments are tremendously helpful. Please use them! Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[OSM-talk-be] WikiProject Belgium
Hi, I am a newbie at OSM. I saw the Wikiproject Belgium and the pages were IMHO a little outdated (most 2008) and i found the necessary information at Wikiproject Netherlands. That s the reason i put a line help newbie on the Wikiproject Belgium, i hope it will be useful. It may be a good idea to translate the Wikiproject Belgium in dutch and french (and german?). To do that, i suggest to in a first step put all information separated pages (like Potential sources) and put a link on the Wikiproject Belgium - page. Then we can discuss which links are needed on the Wikiproject Belgium -page and start to translate some pages. In my opinion a lot of pages can be kept in english but some need translation. I hope i can connivence a lot of new users by a remake of the Wikiproject Belgium-page. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:42:50AM +1000, Ross Scanlon wrote: The renderer does not require any change, the only changes required are moving the amenity=police icon to be the emergency=police_station icon (which is a 30 second job) and creating an appropriate emergency parent icon (and there's probably something already there we can use). The program code to do this is approximately 100 lines of c including white space and comments. Provided the program is maintained. People may use programs not maintained any more or they may be not able to upgrade or they wouldn't know they need to upgrade. Things will just stop working for them, without a notice. Greets, Jacek ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On 30 July 2010 16:51, Jacek Konieczny jaj...@jajcus.net wrote: Provided the program is maintained. People may use programs not maintained any more or they may be not able to upgrade or they wouldn't know they need to upgrade. Things will just stop working for them, without a notice. Is this an objection to the current proposal, or in general? If this is a comment in general then this isn't sufficient argument because tags change all the time, so the other side of the argument would be they wouldn't see new things render ever, which would make them more inclined to switch to an application that does show things they are interested in. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Timeout uploading GPX traces
When a GPX trace file is larger than 100 kilobytes or so, the uploader web page times out in the browser and the file isn't uploaded. I've got a backlog of several long GPX traces to upload - is there some other way to do it? -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:06:14 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 July 2010 16:51, Jacek Konieczny jaj...@jajcus.net wrote: Provided the program is maintained. People may use programs not maintained any more or they may be not able to upgrade or they wouldn't know they need to upgrade. Things will just stop working for them, without a notice. Is this an objection to the current proposal, or in general? If this is a comment in general then this isn't sufficient argument because tags change all the time, so the other side of the argument would be they wouldn't see new things render ever, which would make them more inclined to switch to an application that does show things they are interested in. Ditto. The particular app that I'm talking about had this from the start. -- Cheers Ross ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Timeout uploading GPX traces
On 30/07/10 08:11, Ed Avis wrote: When a GPX trace file is larger than 100 kilobytes or so, the uploader web page times out in the browser and the file isn't uploaded. I've got a backlog of several long GPX traces to upload - is there some other way to do it? I just uploaded a 9.8Mb trace with no problems at all, so if you're having a problem with 100Kb then I'd be inclined to blame your browser. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Timeout uploading GPX traces
Firefox is better than IE for uploading and downloading files especially larger ones. Cheerio John On 30 July 2010 03:11, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: When a GPX trace file is larger than 100 kilobytes or so, the uploader web page times out in the browser and the file isn't uploaded. I've got a backlog of several long GPX traces to upload - is there some other way to do it? -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Timeout uploading GPX traces
At 09:41 30/07/2010, Tom Hughes wrote: On 30/07/10 08:11, Ed Avis wrote: When a GPX trace file is larger than 100 kilobytes or so, the uploader web page times out in the browser and the file isn't uploaded. I've got a backlog of several long GPX traces to upload - is there some other way to do it? I just uploaded a 9.8Mb trace with no problems at all, so if you're having a problem with 100Kb then I'd be inclined to blame your browser. Similarly I routinely upload GPX files in the 1 MB range with no problem. As a possible short-term fix, try uploading an individual file in .zip format. This used to work and I assume is still supported. Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Landsat?
yeah, I'm having the same issues (Read timed out) Roman From: Tomas Straupis tomasstrau...@gmail.com Subject: [OSM-talk] Landsat? Hello Is anybody else experiencing landsat problems in JOSM? For about three days now landsat images are not available to JOSM. http://onearth.jpl.nasa.gov/ says something about evil ?repetitive requests for non-cached, small WMS tiles?. Does that mean no more landsat in JOSM? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Timeout uploading GPX traces
Tom Hughes tom at compton.nu writes: When a GPX trace file is larger than 100 kilobytes or so, the uploader web page times out in the browser and the file isn't uploaded. I just uploaded a 9.8Mb trace with no problems at all, so if you're having a problem with 100Kb then I'd be inclined to blame your browser. Which browser do you use? (I use Firefox 3.7 on Windows, with no http proxy server configured.) Just now I succeeded in uploading a 47 kilobyte trace but got a timeout uploading a 325 kilobyte one. The error reported by Firefox is 'The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.' I also tried using Chrome, with similar results (it gets stuck at 35% complete, then times out with 'Error 101 (net::ERR_CONNECTION_RESET): Unknown error.'). I can upload large files to other sites (for example, photographs to Flickr) without too much trouble. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Timeout uploading GPX traces
Michael Collinson mike at ayeltd.biz writes: When a GPX trace file is larger than 100 kilobytes or so, the uploader web page times out in the browser As a possible short-term fix, try uploading an individual file in .zip format. This used to work and I assume is still supported. Thanks, that did the trick. The file has now uploaded as http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Ed%20Avis/traces/776516. However, in the list of my GPX traces http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Ed%20Avis/traces it still shows as 'PENDING'. Perhaps it's just slow to update? -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Landsat?
2010-07-30 Roman Neumüller: yeah, I'm having the same issues (Read timed out) Just got information that landsat images are loaded on windows and are NOT loaded on linux... So apparently this is NOT a data source problem. -- Tomas Straupis ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Timeout uploading GPX traces
On 30/07/10 10:00, Ed Avis wrote: Thanks, that did the trick. The file has now uploaded as http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Ed%20Avis/traces/776516. However, in the list of my GPX traces http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Ed%20Avis/traces it still shows as 'PENDING'. Perhaps it's just slow to update? That's just a caching issue - the importer doesn't flush the cached page. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Timeout uploading GPX traces
On 30/07/10 09:40, Ed Avis wrote: Which browser do you use? (I use Firefox 3.7 on Windows, with no http proxy server configured.) Firefox 3.6.7 on linux Just now I succeeded in uploading a 47 kilobyte trace but got a timeout uploading a 325 kilobyte one. The error reported by Firefox is 'The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.' I also tried using Chrome, with similar results (it gets stuck at 35% complete, then times out with 'Error 101 (net::ERR_CONNECTION_RESET): Unknown error.'). Are you on a very slow internet connection or something? If you let me have your IP address then I can look at the logs and see if I can see what is going on. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
I don't understand this argument. Doesn't every tag change anywhere break every editor/renderer/search/data user whether or not you think it is correct? John has just as much right to go change all the amenity= tags to something more specific as you do to keep them the same. Data consumers of all kinds need to accept both kinds of changes. Every Smartphone OSM data consumer I've looked at has been unusable because of tagging interpretation. Compared to OSM, data consumers seem to be very inflexible and unaware of any but the most rigid tag schemes that haven't changed in the past year. In other words, about 30% of mapping labor goes to waste because it's impossible for consumers to keep up. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
Dear all, we've had the changeset feature for quite a while now and I believe it is very helpful in a number of ways. I can select an area and see the edit history for it (soon, hopefully, even ignoring those world-spanning changesets). I can click on a username and see what that user was up to in the last month (or at least what they thought they were up to). It is so much easier to read a short phrase about an edit than having to look at the area and history of affected objects. There are two groups of people however who refuse to put in proper changeset comments, and instead write ..., some mapping, fixed stuff, or even none of your business. One group consists of vandals and morons who never wanted to be part of the community in the first place; who consider any srutiny about their edits an invasion of their right to map crap at best, or want to hide what they're doing at worst. They write ... as a shorthand for kiss my ass community. It is useless to try and talk reason into these people so I won't even try. The other group consists of well-meaning mappers who are valuable members of our community but who perceive the need to enter a changeset comment as a kind of nagging, nannying, and who might be tempted to enter a useless comment as a form of protest against that. I'm sure everyone who has to work with version control systems of any sort knows the feeling - change one line of code and then have to write two lines of commit comment! To them, I say: Yes, you're right, it can be a pain sometimes, but if you practice it for a while, it will be an easy routine. If writing English takes you too long, use your national language, that's no problem. And you don't have to write long sentences, a few words are sufficient. But that little bit of time you spend when committing your changes adds so much value! OpenStreetMap is not about the data, it is about the community, and the community is exactly who benefits from your changeset comment - someone checking edits in an area, maybe even preparing something for the press to demonstrate how many people are working in an area (and how diverse their work is), someone wanting to get a quick idea of what another community member's area of expertise is... all that becomes easy with proper changeset comments. Changeset comments can even be messages to other community members - they see what you're doing and they might start to help out or do the same in their area. Don't be fooled; the small changeset comment that you enter when uploading stuff *will* be read by many people. Done well, changeset comments are tremendously helpful. Please use them! Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On Friday, July 30, 2010 04:48:03 pm Frederik Ramm wrote: Don't be fooled; the small changeset comment that you enter when uploading stuff will be read by many people. Done well, changeset comments are tremendously helpful. helpful reminder - my problem is that I put an entry like 'fine tuning south Mumbai', and then for the next changeset, I forget to put anything, so it again goes as 'fine tuning south mumbai' when it is actually concerning a place hundreds of kilometers away. -- Regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Associate NRC-FOSS at AU-KBC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On 30 July 2010 21:15, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote: Every Smartphone OSM data consumer I've looked at has been unusable because of tagging interpretation. Compared to OSM, data consumers seem to be very inflexible and unaware of any but the most rigid tag schemes that haven't changed in the past year. In other words, about 30% of mapping labor goes to waste because it's impossible for consumers to keep up. I thought most smart phone apps would mostly view map tiles, either OSM or Cloudmade? Although that seems to indicate it's a good idea to categorise things a little better, so that the apps or what ever don't need to know or care about everything in the category, as is the case with the amenity=* tags. For example, a generic dollar sign icon could be used for unknown shop=* tags, and maybe a desk or something similar for office=* and so on ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On 30 July 2010 21:27, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: On Friday, July 30, 2010 04:48:03 pm Frederik Ramm wrote: Don't be fooled; the small changeset comment that you enter when uploading stuff will be read by many people. Done well, changeset comments are tremendously helpful. helpful reminder - my problem is that I put an entry like 'fine tuning south Mumbai', and then for the next changeset, I forget to put anything, so it again goes as 'fine tuning south mumbai' when it is actually concerning a place hundreds of kilometers away. +1 I've been caught several times forgetting to change the changeset comment and so it ends up worst than any generic comment since it then is misleading as to what happened. Maybe we just need better tools to summerise changes made, rather than trying to get something meaningful by way of the comment field... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: The other group consists of well-meaning mappers who are valuable members of our community but who perceive the need to enter a changeset comment as a kind of nagging, nannying, and who might be tempted to enter a useless comment as a form of protest against that. I'm sure everyone who has to work with version control systems of any sort knows the feeling - change one line of code and then have to write two lines of commit comment! And then there's the group that consists of Potlatch users in Live mode. Potlatch kind of supports changeset comments, but you have very little control over when the changeset is created and saved, and you can't (afaik) change a changeset comment after the fact. For me, very frequently, the changeset just represents a random bunch of edits I happened to be doing at one time, with not much cohesion. There are different suburbs all in the same changeset as I flitted about. I also question this value you talk about. I don't think I've ever looked at another member's changeset. If the user interfaces made that a more common occurrence, I'd probably put more effort into changeset comments, but for me they're not very visible. (Corollary: when another user tells me specifically that they would find my changesets easier to navigate if I commented them properly, I would re-evaluate. But afaik, no one ever looks at my work, so it seems a bit pointless.) Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 2:42 AM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Better yet - just don't change it. This sort of change just isn't worth the pain and hundreds of developer hours that could be better spent on moving the project forward. Yes - this sort of change might make the tag heirachy prettier - but not enough to justify the work. Garbage. It's not hundred of hours of developer work to change this. If the renderer programming is up to scratch then it should be able to automatically accept changes like this. One of the programs I have done some development on has this built in. Well done. Pretty much none of the others do. I look forward to your patches :) Mapnik for instance has manual rules - they will need to be changed. Worse than that osm2pgsql (the import tool) only imports certain keys so implementing emergency=* requires a complete reimport of the database - about 30 hours even on very good hardware. Then the changes need to be tested and deployed. I can get to 3 or 4 hours of actual developed work without even trying. Now times that by the number of applications. For applications that are deployed to the desktop or mobiles the situation is even worse - it might not be possible to release a new version of the time being, the change might have to wait for the next update cycle and then all the users have to actually get round to updating. Or maybe they have to code in some sort of hack to change the new tag back to the old tag for compatibility. And what about multi-lingual support? A lot of apps are in multiple languages, they might well need to go back to their translators and check that the new tagging doesn't result in a subtle change in meaning. But all this is the tip of the iceberg - you are missing the time it takes to monitor the tagging list (most developers will not even be on it), to find out which changes are important and to work out if things are exactly equivalent or if there is a change of meaning. I think hundreds was a fairly reasonable number. -- Brian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Timeout uploading GPX traces
At 11:00 30/07/2010, Ed Avis wrote: Michael Collinson mike at ayeltd.biz writes: When a GPX trace file is larger than 100 kilobytes or so, the uploader web page times out in the browser As a possible short-term fix, try uploading an individual file in .zip format. This used to work and I assume is still supported. Thanks, that did the trick. The file has now uploaded as http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Ed%20Avis/traces/776516. However, in the list of my GPX traces http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Ed%20Avis/traces it still shows as 'PENDING'. Perhaps it's just slow to update? You may have to wait depending on backlog, but if your intent is to use Potlatch, the edit button works immediately. Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
I thought most smart phone apps would mostly view map tiles, either OSM or Cloudmade? There are several apps now for the iPhone which also search POIs. Some examples: -JOSM allows tagging whether banks include an ATM - I select this when the ATM is attached to the building or inside the lobby.None of the apps I tried show these ATMs in a search for ATMs. - A search for ATMs shows a list of ATM in the search result - that's literal because the search is showing name= , which doesn't exist because JOSM only accepts operator= when tagging ATMs. Therefore as an end user, you don't even have a brand name to look for. Although that seems to indicate it's a good idea to categorise things a little better, so that the apps or what ever don't need to know or care about everything in the category, as is the case with the amenity=* tags. In the end, any good data consumer needs to get 'down and dirty' into the wiki and OSM tags to be effective. Just the restaurant category is awkward - most people looking to eat just want an option to see all eating establishments within walking distance. Because tagging is so subjective, there needs to be an option to combine amenity=restaurant amenity=fast_food amenity=café , any of which could also serve food while excluding all other amentity= . I don't see any value in creating a category of eatery= just to make the query simpler. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
I have to admit that I am bad about not bothering to enter a comment, particularly if all I have been doing is fixing the alignment of streets to better conform to the Yahoo aerial view. I shall try to do better in the future. Also, I sometimes mark POIs with a cell phone app, BigTinCan Mapper, that offers only a preset list of POI types, with the only user-editable attribute being the name, and no provision for entering changeset comments. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments From :mailto:deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date :Fri Jul 30 06:35:39 America/Chicago 2010 On 30 July 2010 21:27, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: On Friday, July 30, 2010 04:48:03 pm Frederik Ramm wrote: Don't be fooled; the small changeset comment that you enter when uploading stuff will be read by many people. Done well, changeset comments are tremendously helpful. helpful reminder - my problem is that I put an entry like 'fine tuning south Mumbai', and then for the next changeset, I forget to put anything, so it again goes as 'fine tuning south mumbai' when it is actually concerning a place hundreds of kilometers away. +1 I've been caught several times forgetting to change the changeset comment and so it ends up worst than any generic comment since it then is misleading as to what happened. Maybe we just need better tools to summerise changes made, rather than trying to get something meaningful by way of the comment field... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:52:47 +1000 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: I also question this value you talk about. I don't think I've ever looked at another member's changeset. If the user interfaces made that a more common occurrence, I'd probably put more effort into changeset comments, but for me they're not very visible. (Corollary: when another user tells me specifically that they would find my changesets easier to navigate if I commented them properly, I would re-evaluate. But afaik, no one ever looks at my work, so it seems a bit pointless.) I used to think this way, but for the past couple of months I've been mapping to support three separate goals: a research project that involves importing bus stops, inventorying shops and points of interest for an area bicycle map, and preparing for a walk-trip planner like the University of Maryland's. Each focuses on different features in a common part of town. If I reference bus stops in the changeset comment, the student who is doing the programming on the bus stop project can pull up all of my changesets and immediately identify which ones he needs to look at. He's told me how useful this is. If I reference inventorying shops on a street with street name, the students in the bike club can do the same for that. But, I haven't yet adopted the discipline of doing just one activity's worth of mapping in a changeset. When I inventoried the shops on one street, I also mapped the proper location of the bus stops, and edited both in one changeset (actually a series of changesets because I didn't get it all done in one session). And from Steve's comments, I'm not alone in doing things this way. It is just easier for me to record everything I see in the series of photographs I take of, say, a strip mall and its setting, than to do just shops in one changeset, close it, open another, do the bus stops, move to the photos for the next strip mall, and repeat. And, sometimes I enter something and it triggers a memory of something that I observed elsewhere the day before, and I flit to the other location to note it before I forget it again, and then come back to what I was doing. But, I think that labeling at least part of the changeset correctly helps. So thanks, Frederik, for raising this. Ed Edward L. Hillsman, Ph.D. Senior Research Associate Center for Urban Transportation Research University of South Florida 4202 Fowler Ave., CUT100 Tampa, FL 33620-5375 813-974-2977 (tel) 813-974-5168 (fax) hills...@cutr.usf.edu http://www.cutr.usf.edu ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
So what really is a good changeset comment? -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 9:08 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: So what really is a good changeset comment? I think we recognize bad change set comments more easily than good ones. I'm not proud of the ones I missed here. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rw__/edits But mostly I think I do a good job with change set comments. I try to keep my edit sessions short as well, so the comment relates to fewer separate tasks. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
Am 30.07.2010 13:52, schrieb Steve Bennett: (Corollary: when another user tells me specifically that they would find my changesets easier to navigate if I commented them properly, I would re-evaluate. But afaik, no one ever looks at my work, so it seems a bit pointless.) I've subscribed to all changes in my area using OWL [1] and I'm looking through all Changesets that crosses the area I live work in. Unfortunately OWL does not show the Changeset comment in the RSS items, so I'll always have to click onto the web link, but I always read what my co-mappers are writing. Peter [1] http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/owl_viewer/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On 30 July 2010 14:34, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Am 30.07.2010 13:52, schrieb Steve Bennett: (Corollary: when another user tells me specifically that they would find my changesets easier to navigate if I commented them properly, I would re-evaluate. But afaik, no one ever looks at my work, so it seems a bit pointless.) I've subscribed to all changes in my area using OWL [1] and I'm looking through all Changesets that crosses the area I live work in. Unfortunately OWL does not show the Changeset comment in the RSS items, so I'll always have to click onto the web link, but I always read what my co-mappers are writing. I agree that proper comments can be very good to quickly see what has been going on. I try as hard as possible to separate my tasks in multiple changeset for this reason. But then like Richard Weait, I miss a few :) (I blame JOSM for doing an autocomplete :P ) Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView
Would it make sense for the OSV and OTV projects to be combined so that you have one place for images? John On 7/30/10, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: I would at least talk to John (the openstreetview admin). OSV seems to have active users (I just moderated over 100 images) but there has been no development work in over 6 months and to be honest it could use some. The interface is still pretty basic and pictures can not be tagged or have any metadata added except what is already in the EXIF data. So you can't indicate which direction the camera was pointing like it seems OTV allows you to do which is kind of important for street level imagery. Also, there ARE a lot of trail pictures being uploaded to OSV. So ideally I would love to see OSV and OTV work together if possible. I will try to ride a trail or two here in town this weekend and get some pictures so I can try OTV for myself. Toby On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: Thanks for the ideas - the point below was raised by at least a couple of people. *Bulk upload* That last one is the key to a successful project, in my opinion. It would be very nice if support for this contributor-process would be supported. I've found a JavaScript library to do this - see the blog http://www.free-map.org.uk/wordpress. I didn't visit SOTM, so this might be answered already, but how does this project differ from other openstreetmap based projects that also aims to collect a database of georeferenced photos? Is there a need for several similiar projects? (i haven't really looked at the other projects) The main one I'm also aware of is OpenStreetView - however, this isn't so much focused on off-road photos and has more of an emphasis on tagged photos. OpenStreetView and OpenTrailView are working on different aspects of the same sort of thing, so there's no reason they can't come together in the future. Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John J. Mitchell ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
Ed, Hillsman, Edward wrote: I used to think this way, but for the past couple of months I've been mapping to support three separate goals: a research project that involves importing bus stops, inventorying shops and points of interest for an area bicycle map, and preparing for a walk-trip planner like the University of Maryland's. Each focuses on different features in a common part of town. If I reference bus stops in the changeset comment, the student who is doing the programming on the bus stop project can pull up all of my changesets and immediately identify which ones he needs to look at. He's told me how useful this is. If I reference inventorying shops on a street with street name, the students in the bike club can do the same for that. Thanks for that changeset comment success story ;) But, I haven't yet adopted the discipline of doing just one activity's worth of mapping in a changeset. When I inventoried the shops on one street, I also mapped the proper location of the bus stops, and edited both in one changeset (actually a series of changesets because I didn't get it all done in one session). And from Steve's comments, I'm not alone in doing things this way. It is just easier for me to record everything I see in the series of photographs I take of, say, a strip mall and its setting, than to do just shops in one changeset, close it, open another, do the bus stops, move to the photos for the next strip mall, and repeat. Of course. I think it would be going too far to actually expect mappers to close an editing session (often losing some context) and then reopen it just to make another kind of edit. We don't want to reach a point where newbies e-mail SteveC complaining that they got turned away from OSM because the community demanded too much of them ;) Changeset comments don't have to be perfect. If everyone aimed at not writing silly ones, that would be already be a big step forward, and yours seem to be safely in the useful zone. Maybe in the long run, power editors like JOSM will allow you to keep mutliple changesets open at the same time, switching between them by the click of a button, or even allowing you so easily sort and filter edits (all those with bus stations, in changeset 1, all others, in changeset 2). But that's something for the (rather more distant I assume) future. I think it helps if one keeps in mind what Peter said: I always read what my co-mappers are writing. - your changeset comment is a message to other humans who work with you on this, whether you know them or not. Trying to send them a meaningful message, and thus treating them with respect, is what counts. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
Well done. Pretty much none of the others do. I look forward to your
patches :)
Heres the patch for the default.style for osm2pgsql
node,way emergency text nocache,polygon
Wasn't worth a diff patch as it's only one line. (30 seconds)
Mapnik for instance has manual rules - they will need to be changed.
Worse than that osm2pgsql (the import tool) only imports certain keys
so implementing emergency=* requires a complete reimport of the
database - about 30 hours even on very good hardware. Then the
changes need to be tested and deployed. I can get to 3 or 4 hours of
actual developed work without even trying.
Probably should have used a diff patch but anyway heres a new file for mapnik
rules in inc/ dir (5 minutes most of which was spent getting a copy of mapnik
from svn)
Could be called layer-emergency-points.xml.inc
---
Style
Rule
maxscale_zoom17;
Filter[emergency]='ambulance_station'/Filter
PointSymbolizer file=symbols;/ambulance.p.16.png /
/Rule
Rule
maxscale_zoom17;
Filter[emergency]='police_station'/Filter
PointSymbolizer file=symbols;/police.p.16.png /
/Rule
Rule
maxscale_zoom17;
Filter[emergency]='fire_station'/Filter
PointSymbolizer file=symbols;/firestation.p.16.png /
/Rule
/Style
Layer name=emergency-points status=on srs=osm2pgsql_projection;
StyleNamepoints/StyleName
Datasource
Parameter name=table
(select
way,amenity,shop,tourism,highway,man_made,access,religion,waterway,lock,historic,emergency
from prefix;_point
where emergency is not null
or shop is not null
or tourism in
('alpine_hut','camp_site','caravan_site','guest_house','hostel','hotel','museum','viewpoint')
or highway in ('bus_stop','traffic_signals','ford')
or man_made in ('mast','water_tower')
or historic='memorial'
or waterway='lock'
or lock='yes'
) as points/Parameter
datasource-settings;
/Datasource
/Layer
Layer name=emergency-points-poly status=on srs=osm2pgsql_projection;
StyleNamepoints/StyleName
Datasource
Parameter name=table
(select
way,amenity,shop,tourism,highway,man_made,access,religion,waterway,lock,historic,emergency
from prefix;_polygon
where emergency is not null
or shop is not null
or tourism in
('alpine_hut','camp_site','caravan_site','guest_house','hostel','hotel','museum','viewpoint')
or highway in ('bus_stop','traffic_signals')
or man_made in ('mast','water_tower')
or historic='memorial'
) as points/Parameter
datasource-settings;
/Datasource
/Layer
And now the osm.xml file (30 seconds)
Rule
Filter[amenity] = 'police'/Filter
maxscale_zoom17;
TextSymbolizer name=name fontset_name=book-fonts size=10
fill=#734a08 dy=10 halo_radius=1 wrap_width=30/
/Rule
Rule
Filter[amenity] = 'fire_station'/Filter
maxscale_zoom17;
TextSymbolizer name=name fontset_name=book-fonts size=10
fill=#734a08 dy=9 halo_radius=1 wrap_width=30/
/Rule
replaced by
Rule
Filter[emergency] = 'police_station'/Filter
maxscale_zoom17;
TextSymbolizer name=name fontset_name=book-fonts size=10
fill=#734a08 dy=10 halo_radius=1 wrap_width=30/
/Rule
Rule
Filter[emercency] = 'fire_station'/Filter
maxscale_zoom17;
TextSymbolizer name=name fontset_name=book-fonts size=10
fill=#734a08 dy=9 halo_radius=1 wrap_width=30/
/Rule
Total time 6 minutes
Hundreds of hours, yeah right.
The program I've been talking about uses osm2pgsql and mapnik so I'm well aware
of them.
If your smart you could probably add the emergency data without having to
totally rerun osm2pgsql.
--
Cheers
Ross
___
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
Hi, Ross Scanlon wrote: Filter[emergency] = 'police_station'/Filter What does a police station have to do with emergencies? Are you going to tag the UN headquarters next because they run international disaster relief? Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On 30 July 2010 13:35, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe we just need better tools to summerise changes made, rather than trying to get something meaningful by way of the comment field... A commit message is not only a summary of what is being changed but also why it's being changed (and more in case of code). Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
Where the same thing is being tagged in different ways then by all means spend your energy trying to unify them as that ulitmately benefits all data consumers and reduces scope for mapper confusion. In the case of hospital or fire_station though I don't see the point of these changes. In these cases the amenity conveys no meaning, it is the hospital that does that. If you change it to emergency (or whatever) that still conveys no meaning in itself so what is the point? Kevin On 30 July 2010 13:40, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Just to drag things back on topic, so far most claims seem to be vague and generalised, however the original proposal about shifting police and fire into an emergency category doesn't seem to have many/any of the draw backs of most POIs most people are going to search for most of the time. Suppose things did move forward initially with dual tagging with a 3, 6 or even 12 month time frame, most databases would need to be reimported in that time frame because vacuuming seems to take as long or longer than reimporting. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:40 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Just to drag things back on topic, so far most claims seem to be vague and generalised, however the original proposal about shifting police and fire into an emergency category doesn't seem to have many/any of the draw backs of most POIs most people are going to search for most of the time. John Smith, your method stinks. You seem to believe that your preferred tag of emergency=fire_station, etc is better. Rather than adding your preferred tags and allowing the community to eventually realize that you are correct, you have _replaced_ many of these tags with your preferred tag. OSMDoc says there were ~25,000 amenity=fire_station last November. http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/amenity/#values You have failed to follow the automated edits code of conduct guidelines on almost every count. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits/Code_of_Conduct Your disdain for clueful change set comments appears to be nothing more than obfuscation. How is the OpenStreetMap community to distinguish these edits from vandalism, and you from a vandal? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On 30 July 2010 16:26, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Total time 6 minutes Hundreds of hours, yeah right. The program I've been talking about uses osm2pgsql and mapnik so I'm well aware of them. If your smart you could probably add the emergency data without having to totally rerun osm2pgsql. I think you are missing the point that Brian was making. If the data has to change dramatically, it means one or two man weeks to do the change at work for our engine at work. The change in itself is simple, but that means testing if none were missing, that everything is running fine, regenerating a database earlier than expected which in itself takes a significant amount of time. Testing is something quite important and we have tons of test to make sure that the database is working as expected before we release to production. While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people working in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means that every one doing an app needs to do some significant work to make sure that those new settings are taken into consideration. In the meantime, you have effectively broken many applications, which is something which is very bad. That would go against any kind of rationalisation that you want to do since you would break things quite a bit. It is not the image that we want to be showing to the world. Ultimately, IF it was the right solution, John solution of using double tags might be a solution to lessen the impact. However, I don't like those tags, as they don't really make sense in many cases. Before rushing, we should really evaluate a bit more if they make sense. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
Maybe in the long run, power editors like JOSM will allow you to keep mutliple changesets open at the same time, switching between them by the click of a button, or even allowing you so easily sort and filter edits (all those with bus stations, in changeset 1, all others, in changeset 2). But that's something for the (rather more distant I assume) future. JOSM has been able to keep multiple changesets open since sometime last year. Actually, this feature has me wishing that changesets wouldn't autoclose after only one hour. Coupled with the Upload Selection feature, it can already do everything you describe above. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.comwrote: While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people working in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means that every one doing an app needs to do some significant work to make sure that those new settings are taken into consideration. In the meantime, you have effectively broken many applications, which is something which is very bad. Not that I agree with the tags or the way that OP went about the change (I've already reverted the majority of his changes in my area), but the fact that your applications break when someone changes a tag is a sign that something larger is wrong with the system than a simple amenity/emergency tag change. The OSM ecosystem has always strongly favored ease of mapping (as opposed to ease of data consumption), but now that more data consumers are attempting to use our data maybe it's time to start thinking about how we can firm things up a little bit to give the data consumers something solid to work with. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On 30 July 2010 17:14, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people working in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means that every one doing an app needs to do some significant work to make sure that those new settings are taken into consideration. In the meantime, you have effectively broken many applications, which is something which is very bad. Not that I agree with the tags or the way that OP went about the change (I've already reverted the majority of his changes in my area), but the fact that your applications break when someone changes a tag is a sign that something larger is wrong with the system than a simple amenity/emergency tag change. The OSM ecosystem has always strongly favored ease of mapping (as opposed to ease of data consumption), but now that more data consumers are attempting to use our data maybe it's time to start thinking about how we can firm things up a little bit to give the data consumers something solid to work with. That was my point. We have legacy tags which for better or worse are working right now. This particular change doesn't look good as you are breaking functionalities. Firming up doesn't mean that we suddenly have to change all tags around. As for the issue about data consumers, I believe to be partially a wrong argument; I am myself a corporate user and my main beef was not the taggging system but rather the wiki initially. I ended up using tagwatch to get a better idea of what was used. We have been using OSM for now quite some time and I am still regularly adding new tags. Amusingly enough, I suspect that most people look at tools like tagwatch to know what to map in the end or examples they found somewhere on the map, or presets from editors. The fact is firming up doesn't mean changing drastically everything under the pretense it is not consistent. Any change should be progressive, whether we like it or not. I don't really care the current organization as the system tends to stabilize towards one tag which is usually community based (country based). Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Unfortunately OWL does not show the Changeset comment in the RSS items, so I'll always have to click onto the web link, but I always read what my co-mappers are writing. Actually, it is supposed to. There is some bug that causes it to choke often though. I poke zere on IRC about it regularly. And a HUGE +1 to this topic in general. I find all the worldwide edits with no useful comment to be highly annoying. I agree that sometimes it will be a pretty general description if a lot of things were changed but generally if you are doing large XAPI requests to fix things, they will be pretty specific. There should be at least SOME attempt to be descriptive. If for no other reason than to alert me to the types of things that bots are correcting so that I can map them correctly when I add similar features in the future. I like to think my comments are usually pretty awesome myself :) http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ToeBee/edits And yes, I do have one comment that reads Random additions/improvements around town. for an edit that was truly random. Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On 30 July 2010 18:07, Lennard l...@xs4all.nl wrote: Maybe in the long run, power editors like JOSM will allow you to keep mutliple changesets open at the same time, switching between them by the click of a button, or even allowing you so easily sort and filter edits (all those with bus stations, in changeset 1, all others, in changeset 2). But that's something for the (rather more distant I assume) future. JOSM has been able to keep multiple changesets open since sometime last year. Actually, this feature has me wishing that changesets wouldn't autoclose after only one hour. Coupled with the Upload Selection feature, it can already do everything you describe above. That is useful of course, but it's still lacking compared to the modern versioning systems where you usually clone (a part of) the database and you can accumulate your changes locally and then push them upstream. What this means is that for example if you're mapping offline for a couple of days, JOSM only lets you upload all the changes wholesale after you're back online, you can not stack the changesets and make a push, or even go back and add something to a change that is already buried under new changes, and then go back to the top of the stack, and push once your commit series is ready and you're happy with it. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 12:30 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: How is the OpenStreetMap community to distinguish these edits from vandalism, and you from a vandal? Considering I didn't make any of the changes you are accusing me of I fail to see the problem. You did... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
John, John Smith wrote: why can't there be better tools to summarise or model changes One of my points in the other discussion what that writing proper changeset comments also means showing respect to the rest of the community. Showing respect, interacting with humans, is something that no piece of software can do for you. You have spent a lot of time preparing and executing this change, but even so you were unable or unwilling to even spend a minute to think of a suitable changeset comment. The very least thing to say would be yes, sorry, I've made a mistake. Also, you have completely ignored the widely accepted community rules for making automated changes - were they unknown to you, or did you somehow think they would not apply to your plan? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On 31 July 2010 03:43, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote: Here's an example of a change you claim you haven't made: No, I claimed to have made those, as I pointed out to you in a previous reply, what exactly was so important about these locations that no one could be bothered to spend 2 seconds making a wiki page for? What did the tag actually mean, people seem to care so much about the what and why of changeset comments, but not documenting the what and why of tags? double standards? This includes private or charity stations which are not emergency stations. Again, they were documented so how was anyone supposed to know that or differentiated between the ones that are? Global changes like this without discussion can only be regarded as vandalism. What is poor and no documentation then? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
John Smith wrote: On 31 July 2010 02:05, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people working in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means that What change, I have made a suggestion and was after comments, so far some are for this specific change, and some are against, most of those against don't seem to comment on the specific proposal. _ Here's an example of a change you claim you haven't made: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/5342181 This includes private or charity stations which are not emergency stations. Global changes like this without discussion can only be regarded as vandalism. -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On 31 July 2010 03:34, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: It appears that you have indeed made lots of changes in the database before discussing on the list: e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/771625043/history Hmmm thought I fixed that by reverting that changeset... I'll fix it now thanks for pointing out my oversight. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 12:25 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 31 July 2010 02:05, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people working in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means that What change, I have made a suggestion and was after comments, so far some are for this specific change, and some are against, most of those against don't seem to comment on the specific proposal. It appears that you have indeed made lots of changes in the database before discussing on the list: e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/771625043/history ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On 31 July 2010 02:05, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people working in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means that What change, I have made a suggestion and was after comments, so far some are for this specific change, and some are against, most of those against don't seem to comment on the specific proposal. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On 31 July 2010 02:03, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: John Smith, your method stinks. What stinks specifically, you even seem to agree in your next paragraph. You seem to believe that your preferred tag of emergency=fire_station, etc is better. Rather than adding your preferred tags and allowing the community to eventually realize that you are correct, you have _replaced_ many of these tags with your preferred tag. I haven't replaced anything, apart cleaning up amenity=ambulance, amenity=Ambulance, amenity=ambulance_station and amenity=Ambulance_station - emergency=ambulance_station, of which there was only 100 or so tagged. OSMDoc says there were ~25,000 amenity=fire_station last November. http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/amenity/#values Which I haven't touched... at all, so before accusing someone of something at least see if they actually did what they've been accused of, I'm proposing a change and was asking for comments. Your disdain for clueful change set comments appears to be nothing more than obfuscation. I don't seem to be the only one in this boat that finds changeset comments less than useful to describe disparate changes, or prevent misleading ones, which have occurred in the past by accident, why can't there be better tools to summarise or model changes, why can't I see a before and after image of the map based on what changed, why must it all come down to 1 or 2 lines of comment that may or may not actually reflect the changes made? How is the OpenStreetMap community to distinguish these edits from vandalism, and you from a vandal? Considering I didn't make any of the changes you are accusing me of I fail to see the problem. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On 31 July 2010 03:48, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: One of my points in the other discussion what that writing proper changeset comments also means showing respect to the rest of the community. Showing respect, interacting with humans, is something that no piece of software can do for you. So everyone involved with OSM has perfect communication skills then? People can't make mistakes? You have spent a lot of time preparing and executing this change, but even so you were unable or unwilling to even spend a minute to think of a suitable changeset comment. The very least thing to say would be yes, sorry, I've made a mistake. Also, you have completely ignored the widely accepted community rules for making automated changes - were they unknown to you, or did you somehow think they would not apply to your plan? And I've since reverted most of those changes and started this thread instead. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
Am 30.07.2010 18:51, schrieb Toby Murray: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Peter Körnerosm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Unfortunately OWL does not show the Changeset comment in the RSS items, so I'll always have to click onto the web link, but I always read what my co-mappers are writing. Actually, it is supposed to. There is some bug that causes it to choke often though. I poke zere on IRC about it regularly. And, while we're at it, a link to the actual changeset would be nice, too. I'll have a look at the source, maybe I'm able to supply a patch. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 1:30 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 July 2010 02:03, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: John Smith, your method stinks. What stinks specifically, you even seem to agree in your next paragraph. You seem to believe that your preferred tag of emergency=fire_station, etc is better. Rather than adding your preferred tags and allowing the community to eventually realize that you are correct, you have _replaced_ many of these tags with your preferred tag. I'm not agreeing with you John Smith, I'm pointing out that you failed to get community support at least in part because you failed to allow time to gain community support if any was due. I haven't replaced anything, apart cleaning up amenity=ambulance, amenity=Ambulance, amenity=ambulance_station and amenity=Ambulance_station - emergency=ambulance_station, of which there was only 100 or so tagged. You are contradicting yourself, John Smith. You replaced amenity=ambulance_station with your emergency=ambulance_station. This is unnecessary and inappropriate without wide community support. Let's look at just two. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/387787095/history http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/270936829/history Did you or did you not delete amenity=ambulance_station and add emergency=ambulance_station ? You did. Could you have _added_ emergency=ambulance_station without deleting amenity=ambulance_station ? Yes, you could have. But you did not. Which I haven't touched. Fire stations and ambulance stations are often co-located here. So you have. Also, show me your fire station change set so we can confirm this? It should be easy to find it via your change set comments? Except, of course, ... Your disdain for clueful change set comments appears to be nothing more than obfuscation. I don't seem to be the only one in this boat that finds changeset comments less than useful [ ... ] Especially the way you misuse them. Hundreds of Fixed stuff change set comments. Hundreds. So to summarize, you deleted amenity=ambulance_station . You did so without previously ensuring that the tools that expect amenity=ambulance_station would instead deal with emergency=ambulance_station. So you removed data that users, and tools expect and replaced it with data that users and tools do not expect. Now how should the OSM community evaluate the quality of your work? Obviously, if you had done nothing at all, the users, data base and tools would be better off. More expected data in more places. So John Smith scores badly on this test. What if you had only added emergency=ambulance_station, and not deleted amenity=ambulance_station? The users, data base and tools would have been no worse off, but for a slight increase in duplication. This would have been the no harm - no foul method, but you chose not to proceed this way. What if, instead, a malicious vandal had done the same edits? That vandal, might have chosen to delete amenity=ambulance_station, just as you did, then add a completely obvious vandalism tag like vandalism=fixed_stuff As a result the vandal would have broken the expectations of users, removed expected data from the data base and caused existing tools to fail. Look! The vandal test provides results indistinguishable from your edits John Smith! How is the OpenStreetMap community to distinguish these edits from vandalism, and you from a vandal? Considering I didn't make any of the changes you are accusing me of I fail to see the problem. You did. See above. My question stands. How is the community to distinguish your actions from that of a vandal? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On 31 July 2010 04:17, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: You are contradicting yourself, John Smith. You replaced amenity=ambulance_station with your emergency=ambulance_station. This is unnecessary and inappropriate without wide community support. Since no one bothered to document this I have no idea what the other tag was for, people keep attacking me over my lack of documentation well where is the documentation for this tag? Could you have _added_ emergency=ambulance_station without deleting amenity=ambulance_station ? Yes, you could have. But you did not. as pointed out before, amenity=Ambulance and amentiy=ambulance and amenity=Ambulance_station, but you seem to have neglected to mention those, in any case there was only about 100 in total, so it was not widely used, and it didn't even have a JOSM preset. Fire stations and ambulance stations are often co-located here. So you have. According to Chris it may have implied multiple things, but since no one bothered to document it I'm not exactly sure what it meant at all. Also, show me your fire station change set so we can confirm this? It should be easy to find it via your change set comments? Except, of course, ... Since I didn't change them there is no changeset, so no amount of commenting is going to help with an missing changeset. Especially the way you misuse them. Hundreds of Fixed stuff change set comments. Hundreds. I would have said it was closer to thousands... So to summarize, you deleted amenity=ambulance_station . You did so without previously ensuring that the tools that expect amenity=ambulance_station would instead deal with emergency=ambulance_station. Which tools exactly? So you removed data that users, and tools expect and replaced it with data that users and tools do not expect. Again, which tools specifically used one of the 4 above ambulance tags... Now how should the OSM community evaluate the quality of your work? Obviously, if you had done nothing at all, the users, data base and tools would be better off. More expected data in more places. So John Smith scores badly on this test. So we are better off with 4 ambulance tags, none of which were documented to explain what they were for? Look! The vandal test provides results indistinguishable from your edits John Smith! And you aren't providing any proof anything has broken, just hand wavy examples that something somewhere might have broken. My question stands. How is the community to distinguish your actions from that of a vandal? The intentions usually, but of course intentions are always hard to prove, at least in my case I'm trying to work through the issues some of my edits may have caused, but others seem intollerant and inflexible to changes to try and improve the data for both end users of the data and people creating it in the first place. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Fwd: [Tagging] emergency=*
Sorry the following message was sent personally. -- Forwarded message -- From: S.Higashi s_hig...@mua.biglobe.ne.jp Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 04:00:38 +0900 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=* To: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com I think Map Features page should be reverted too. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features I usually translate wiki pages or applications into Japanese. This wiki page is an especially important page because we non-native English speakers find new approved tags here at first. (Most Japanese people cannnot follow the numerous Mailing list postings) I translate new tags whenever I find on this wiki page. Then copy them to JOSM's presets and message catalogs and so on. I haven't ever seen RFC or Proposed status tags on this wiki page at least as for as I know. You can use any tags you like, but not on this page. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: [Tagging] emergency=*
On 31 July 2010 05:03, S.Higashi s_hig...@mua.biglobe.ne.jp wrote: You can use any tags you like, but not on this page. I respectfully disagree, as do many others, the voting method currently employed is deeply flawed. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Atlanta. T-minus two weeks and counting
In two weeks plus or minus a few hours, OSM-ers from around the world will be meeting in Atlanta for the first State of the Map - US. If the International SotM is any guide, the fun will start the night before, in the hotel bars, lounges and local pubs. Because that is where the unstructured conversations will start. Sure, the schedule of talks looks interesting, but the thing that will inspire you for the rest of the summer will be a conversation that you didn't expect. The thing that will inspire you to go out and survey, even in the middle of winter, will be the chance meeting with OSMers from three different places and the discovery that you each have a passion for mapping bowling alleys[1]. You'll think, that talk was nice and you'll mention it to the person beside you. You'll take that common experience of the talk, your individual context from mapping around home, add a dash of convention coffee as catalyst and you'll have an amazing, informative, inspirational conversation. If you have been contemplating going to Atlanta, now is the time to book. http://www.sotm.us/?page_id=7 Book now. Come to SotM-US. Bring your pocketful of awesome with you and share it with the rest. If you have never been to a State of the Map, but you really enjoy participating in OSM, you will absolutely dig this weekend event. Even if you would rather map in solitude, you will enjoy this group of kindred spirits. Really. Book now. Do it. http://www.sotm.us/?page_id=7 Best regards, Richard [1] Where bowling alleys will be something that interests you. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Ross Scanlon wrote: Filter[emergency] = 'police_station'/Filter What does a police station have to do with emergencies? Are you going to tag the UN headquarters next because they run international disaster relief? Bye Frederik Well here, it's in the portfolio of the Emergency Services Minister, so in New South Wales, Australia, its culturally correct. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Timeout uploading GPX traces
Tom Hughes tom at compton.nu writes: Just now I succeeded in uploading a 47 kilobyte trace but got a timeout uploading a 325 kilobyte one. The error reported by Firefox is 'The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.' Are you on a very slow internet connection or something? No, seems fine for other stuff. (I have seen the same error on different ISPs.) If you let me have your IP address then I can look at the logs and see if I can see what is going on. According to http://whatismyipaddress.com/ it's 83.67.143.41, masqueraded somehow from a local network address of 192.168.1.11. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:05:19 +0100 Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 July 2010 16:26, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Total time 6 minutes Hundreds of hours, yeah right. The program I've been talking about uses osm2pgsql and mapnik so I'm well aware of them. If your smart you could probably add the emergency data without having to totally rerun osm2pgsql. I think you are missing the point that Brian was making. If the data has to change dramatically, it means one or two man weeks to do the change at work for our engine at work. The change in itself is simple, but that means testing if none were missing, that everything is running fine, regenerating a database earlier than expected which in itself takes a significant amount of time. Testing is something quite important and we have tons of test to make sure that the database is working as expected before we release to production. I'm well aware of this, but if your app is robust then the changes should not be that much of an issue and the testing should only be minor. The garbage point Brian was making is exactly that garbage. If you make statements like it'll be hundreds of developer hours to modify apps then you need to be able to back it up with facts. Why would you have to regenerate the database earlier than expected? If you regenerate the database on a regular basis then it could wait for the next routine regeneration. It does not have to be done immediately, that was the point of initially duplicating the tags and then after a sufficient time then remove the duplicated amenity tags. However, I don't like those tags, as they don't really make sense in many cases. Before rushing, we should really evaluate a bit more if they make sense. Then show why and where they don't make sense rather than carrying on about possible broken apps. From my point of view the tags make perfect sense, if I have an emergency and I need police, fire or ambulance assistance then I'll look for emergency rather than amenity. I've shown how quickly the two apps described by Brian can be updated quickly, it does not take much more effort than that. -- Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] emergency=*
Ross Scanlon wrote: Then show why and where they don't make sense rather than carrying on about possible broken apps. Easy: amenity=hospital emergency=yes when replaced with emergency=hospital results in lost data. Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
+100! I very much agree with the emphasis on the community aspect of a nice (doesn't have to be great) changeset comment. Code versioning systems support revision comments and good comments help people who maintain the software understand ones contributions. Even Wikipedia highly values edit summaries (and people have opposed adminship of editors because of misleading, uncivil, or useless edit summaries): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Edit_summary On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Dear all, we've had the changeset feature for quite a while now and I believe it is very helpful in a number of ways. I can select an area and see the edit history for it (soon, hopefully, even ignoring those world-spanning changesets). I can click on a username and see what that user was up to in the last month (or at least what they thought they were up to). It is so much easier to read a short phrase about an edit than having to look at the area and history of affected objects. There are two groups of people however who refuse to put in proper changeset comments, and instead write ..., some mapping, fixed stuff, or even none of your business. One group consists of vandals and morons who never wanted to be part of the community in the first place; who consider any srutiny about their edits an invasion of their right to map crap at best, or want to hide what they're doing at worst. They write ... as a shorthand for kiss my ass community. It is useless to try and talk reason into these people so I won't even try. The other group consists of well-meaning mappers who are valuable members of our community but who perceive the need to enter a changeset comment as a kind of nagging, nannying, and who might be tempted to enter a useless comment as a form of protest against that. I'm sure everyone who has to work with version control systems of any sort knows the feeling - change one line of code and then have to write two lines of commit comment! To them, I say: Yes, you're right, it can be a pain sometimes, but if you practice it for a while, it will be an easy routine. If writing English takes you too long, use your national language, that's no problem. And you don't have to write long sentences, a few words are sufficient. But that little bit of time you spend when committing your changes adds so much value! OpenStreetMap is not about the data, it is about the community, and the community is exactly who benefits from your changeset comment - someone checking edits in an area, maybe even preparing something for the press to demonstrate how many people are working in an area (and how diverse their work is), someone wanting to get a quick idea of what another community member's area of expertise is... all that becomes easy with proper changeset comments. Changeset comments can even be messages to other community members - they see what you're doing and they might start to help out or do the same in their area. Don't be fooled; the small changeset comment that you enter when uploading stuff *will* be read by many people. Done well, changeset comments are tremendously helpful. Please use them! Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On 30/07/2010, at 9:52 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: For me, very frequently, the changeset just represents a random bunch of edits I happened to be doing at one time, with not much cohesion. There are different suburbs all in the same changeset as I flitted about. My editing falls into two categories, casual editing and big tasks. I think I put in reasonable comments for big tasks (my current one is uploading National Parks data). For casual editing, I'm not sure what I could put in that would be useful. Often I start off adding some street numbers I've collected, and then trace those houses from nearmap, and then start tracing a creek, and then start doing something when that ends. When I set the changeset comment, I don't know exactly what I'll be fixing up - I know the location, but you can get that from the changeset anyway without any comment. For any kind of semi-automatic or large scale things, I agree that good changeset comments shouldn't be difficult to write and would be very useful, but I'm not sure about small-scale editing when you go along with things. -- James ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Frederik Ramm wrote: Dear all, we've had the changeset feature for quite a while now and I believe it is very helpful in a number of ways. I thought I'd have a look at the documentation provided for the documentation called changeset comment The documentation I found was at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:comment and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Changesets and these give a completely different slant on the changeset comment. They discuss them being optional and note that anything mandatory annoys some mappers who will retaliate with garbage comments. Thanks to the persons who pointed out changeset comments I know realise that I am quite free to write anything or nothing useful. Yes I can see their potential use, however would the other persons in this thread who are dogmatic about their use read the existing documentation on the documentation. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 3:54 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: If You have indicated to OSMF that you waive any rights in Your Contents (dedication to the 'public domain'), OSMF will additionally use or sub-license Your Contents under: the Public Domain Dedication License; or the Creative Commons CC0 waiver. So hopefully that would mean that for a contributor who agrees to public domain of their contents, then that would apply only to the edits not sourced by nearmap, or some other CC-BY-* licence. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...
On 30 July 2010 16:16, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 3:54 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: If You have indicated to OSMF that you waive any rights in Your Contents (dedication to the 'public domain'), OSMF will additionally use or sub-license Your Contents under: the Public Domain Dedication License; or the Creative Commons CC0 waiver. So hopefully that would mean that for a contributor who agrees to public domain of their contents, then that would apply only to the edits not sourced by nearmap, or some other CC-BY-* licence. That's going to be a very messy area to deal with, because it requires people sourcing or attributing perfectly all the time. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Bundaberg Nearmap imagery now online
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NearMap_PhotoMaps#Queensland ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Showgrounds
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Craig Feuerherdt craigfeuerhe...@gmail.com wrote: Well it appears as though people have been tagging them as landuse=recreation_ground (as per Melbourne Showgrounds) which seems the closest approximation to what it is. landuse=recreation_ground recreation_ground=showground ? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] What makes a good change set comment?
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 6:13 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: What goes in to a good change set comment? Should it include the nature of your edits, the sources used, edit theme, and location? What else? You might want to back up a bit and ask what purpose do changesets serve? For me, they don't really serve any purpose, so I don't really spend much time on comments. At best I might mention the suburb I think I'm mapping in. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Showgrounds
Not sure I like that option Steve as it implies that the recreation_ground is only a showground. I prefer the landuse=showground option and then, if there is an oval that is used for recreation within the showground you tag that accordingly ie leisure=pitch, sport=*. In the end it comes down to the predominant use of the area. The Melbourne showgrounds aren't a recreation_ground, likewise with Bendigo. Well unless recreation includes purchasing showbags and eating fairy floss :) Craig On 30 July 2010 17:30, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Craig Feuerherdt craigfeuerhe...@gmail.com wrote: Well it appears as though people have been tagging them as landuse=recreation_ground (as per Melbourne Showgrounds) which seems the closest approximation to what it is. landuse=recreation_ground recreation_ground=showground ? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...
On 30 July 2010 07:19, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: That's going to be a very messy area to deal with, because it requires people sourcing or attributing perfectly all the time. On a different topic of sourcing, as I mentionned some time ago, Spot Images will be releasing images of France in the near future for a period of 6 months. The attribution is very important to them and that's why someone is coding a plugin in JOSM that will be giving access to the WMS specifically and add the source automatically when the plugin is used (similar to what is happening with the Cadastre plugin, which enforces the source type in JOSM). That is a way of enforcing the source. Emilie Laffray ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Showgrounds
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Craig Feuerherdt wrote: Well unless recreation includes purchasing showbags and eating fairy floss :) What about the rides? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...
On 30 July 2010 19:40, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: On a different topic of sourcing, as I mentionned some time ago, Spot Images will be releasing images of France in the near future for a period of 6 months. The attribution is very important to them and that's why someone is coding a plugin in JOSM that will be giving access to the WMS specifically and add the source automatically when the plugin is used (similar to what is happening with the Cadastre plugin, which enforces the source type in JOSM). That is a way of enforcing the source. Not entirely what I meant, if you checked the other thread on how to add source=* tags it's actually complicated when you update data, but only update a small section so on and so forth. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...
On 30 July 2010 11:13, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Not entirely what I meant, if you checked the other thread on how to add source=* tags it's actually complicated when you update data, but only update a small section so on and so forth. Yup, hence the reason I mentioned it was about a different topic of sourcing, and I couldn't find the previous thread. Emilie Laffray ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...
On 30 July 2010 20:24, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: Yup, hence the reason I mentioned it was about a different topic of sourcing, and I couldn't find the previous thread. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2010-July/006868.html ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Showgrounds
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Craig Feuerherdt craigfeuerhe...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure I like that option Steve as it implies that the recreation_ground is only a showground. I prefer the landuse=showground option and then, if there is an oval that is used for recreation within the showground you tag that accordingly ie leisure=pitch, sport=*. In the end it comes down to the predominant use of the area. The Melbourne showgrounds aren't a recreation_ground, likewise with Bendigo. Well unless recreation includes purchasing showbags and eating fairy floss :) Meh. I look at the definition of landuse=recreation_ground and I think it could include almost anything. Maybe you're right. There are so few showgrounds it won't matter much either way. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Bundaberg Nearmap imagery now online
Mackay imagery seems to be online now as well: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NearMap_PhotoMaps#Queensland ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Toowoomba Nearmap imagery now online
Toowoomba imagery is now online as well... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Showgrounds
On 30 July 2010 22:27, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Meh. I look at the definition of landuse=recreation_ground and I think it could include almost anything. Maybe you're right. There are so few showgrounds it won't matter much either way. Steve Actually there are a lot of showgrounds. Pretty much every rural town has a designated show area, and if you talk about something being held at the showgrounds, the locals all know where you mean. But most of the year, it's used for other things. Any permanent halls are often used for clubs to meet in, any weekly markets may well be held in the show grounds, etc. During the show, everything else stops. But about 50 weeks of the year, it's used for other things. Example, a local showgrounds near me has the show for about 1.5 weeks each year. But the rest of the year, it holds a market each week, several of the halls are used pretty much every night for various clubs (eg one hall has four different dance groups, indoor bowls, and a music group every week), there's a church each week in one of the other halls, several equestrian events each year in the ring, concerts sometimes, running athletic events in the grounds. It's still called the showgrounds, though. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...
On 30/07/2010, at 3:54 PM, John Smith wrote: I've cc'd Grant on this email, he posted to the #osm-au IRC channel about some proposed changes to the CTs, which I was hoping would have come up in another thread by now: LWG is considering: 3. OSMF agrees to use or sub-license Your Contents as part of a database and only under the terms of one of the following licenses: the Open Database Licence for the database and Database Contents Licence for the individual contents of the database; or the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike Licence (version 2.0 or later) I assume that giving the ODbL without a version number there means that it can be released under any version (upgrading to a later ODbL release is AIUI one of main reasons for the CTs). Then it doesn't help at all - what if ODbL 1.1 says that you can freely relicense to CC-Zero? And if you think that can't happen, go look at the GNU Free Documentation Licence 1.3 and Wikipedia. That kind of legal hijinks is the only reason Wikipedia can be under a CC licence now. Not even getting into the argument about who is allowed to define what a later version of the ODbL is. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-br] Atividades Siderópolis (SC)
On Sex, 2010-07-30 at 17:34 +0200, vitor wrote: Olá Pessoal, Ontem conversei com o Guilherme, novo colaborador que se apresentou na esta semana, e ele precisa de ajuda com algumas coisas: 1) Reverter o changeset #5338483, que contém dados do tracksource e não podem ser utilizados por motivo de licença. Opa, Posso fazer a versão. Daqui a pouco mando os resultados. Abraço, -- Samuel Vale srcv...@minaslivre.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] Konzept für die Gruppierung von ways ( ähnlich Linienbündel; Problem von drehenden ways bei =?iso-8859-1?q?_forward/backward?=)
Am Donnerstag 29 Juli 2010, 23:44:33 schrieb steffterra: Nunja. da gehts ja um die aktuell etablierten Autobahnspuren, die bei jeder baulichen Trennung ja auch so gezeichnet werden sollten. Oder habe ich etwas übersehen? inklusive Fahrspurtagging. Da Konzept sollte wohl auch fuer andere Strassen erweitert werden, leider kamm dann erstmal nix mehr... Das mag für Dich gelten, ich kenne hier aber keine Diskussion des letzten Monats, das es zu irgendeinem Konsens brachte. an das wirst du dich bei OSM gewoehnen muessen ;-) Nein das meinte ich nicht. Iss schon klar ;-) Ich hatte aus Deinen Worten gelesen, dass alles geklärt sei und dass das tagging, wie es ist doch ausreicht. Gut das das geklaert ist. Wenn alles perfekt waere, wuerde ich sicher nicht hier schreiben ;-) Aber dann unterstütze nicht indirekt das den derzeit festgefahrenen Karren ;-) Indem Du sagts, dass man die wayrichtung in ruhe lassen sollte, udn dann gehe das tagging schon klar. Ich denke vielmehr, dass egal sein sollte, die Wayrichtung zu ändern. Und das wäre es bei meinem Modell. Es sind halt zwei verschiedene Ansaetze. Du haengst dich zu sehr an der Richtung auf. Ich versuche normalerweise erst mal, Probleme schnell und einfach am Ursprung zu loesen, bevor ich alles neu schreibe. Irgendwie musst du die Gruppierung ja in der Datenbank speichern. Das naheliegendste ist da natuerlich eine einfache Relation. Eine andere Moeglichkeit waere, die Information an den mittleren Weg zu taggen (wahrscheinlich sogar die bessere). ich dachte an eine ID die durch einen einfachen Algorithmus aus den beteiligten ways automatisch errechnet wird. Ist das bei Relationen genauso? Das hat nichts miteinander zu tun. Eine Relation ist ein Basisobjekt genau wie ein Node oder ein Way. Wie du die nutzt, steht dir im Prinzip total frei. Es geht hier nur um die technische Abbildung deiner Gruppierung bzw. ID. Dann mache doch mal einen Vorschlag, wie das auch für Spezialfälle _dieses Modells_ incl. der Möglichkeit des Fahrspurtaggings (wo nötig/ sinnvoll), die dieses Model bietet. wie jetzt, dein Modell? Ja meines. Wie wäre mein Modell mit Relationen für alle angesprochenen Spezialfälle umsetzbar? Ich glaube, da liegt ein Verstaendnisproblem vor: Das einzige, wozu ich eine Relation benutzt haette, waere die Abbildung des Objekts Gruppe selbst. da warte ich noch auf dein versprochenes Beispiel (realisiert z.B. mit josm). Ich schau's mir an, und versuche dann mal, dasselbe auf meine Weise zu relaisieren... Da müsst Ihr Euch leider noch etwas gedulden. Aus beruflichen Gründen bin ich massiver eingespannt, als ich dachte und bin froh, diesem Thread weiter verfolgen zu können. mir geht's da leider aehnlich... Aber hey, wenn am Ende was brauchbares rauskommt, kommt's auf ein paar Tage mehr auch nicht an ;-) richtig, das Frontend ist das wichtige. Ob sich dahinter drei ways mit ein paar Tags oder nur ein Way mit vielen Tags verbergen, ist doch eigentlich egal. Nein, da man schon möglichst einfach durchblicken sollte! wie ich schon an anderer Stelle schrieb, ist mein Modell einfacher zu verstehen, da an dem way getaggt wird, den es betrifft. also auf dem way der Straßenseite, die es betrifft und nicht abstrakt am backward-attribut klebt, der noch von der wayrichtugn abhängig ist und da noch die gefahr besteht, dass falsch gedreht wurde udn zwischenzeitlich richtig nachgetaggt wurde und dann wieder gedreht wird, weil man slebst aus versehen alles danach falschherum eingetragen hat. Direkt am way der Straßenseite ist es halt einfach einfacher. Und viel einfacher nachzuvollziehen - auch für nachfolgende Mapper, da die visuelle Lage auf der Karte schon vieles klärt. abwarten. kann sein, muss aber nicht. email iust grausam. Ich mag Mailinglisten nicht besonders, auch wenn ich mit UUCP-Newsgroups und 9600er Modem groß wurde. foren finde ich praktischer, wenn gescheit moderiert und offtopics in eigene Threads getrennt werden. Ausserdem sind Diskussionstränge leichter nochmal durchzulesen, da es keine mehrfachabzweigungen gibt und man auch von frühereren Postings nochmal zitieren kann. Aber das ist ja jetzt auch offtopic. sorry. das mit den Threads haengt rein von der Disziplin der User ab. Prinzipiell finde ich ML ein sehr gutes Medium fuer Diskussionen. Nur bei der Eroerterung von komplexeren Themen, die am besten grafisch visualisiert werden sollten, mag es vielleicht bessere Medien geben. Aber ja, wir schweifen ab... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Konzept für die Gruppierung von ways ( ähnlich Linienbündel; Problem von drehenden ways b ei =?utf-8?q?_=3D=3Futf-8=3Fq=3F=5Fforward/b ackward=3F=3D?=)
Am Donnerstag 29 Juli 2010, 23:37:00 schrieb Ulf Lamping: Am 29.07.2010 23:16, schrieb Guenther Meyer: Am Mittwoch 28 Juli 2010, 20:12:50 schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: die Richtung dreht auch der Editor selbst automatisch alle Nas lang (JOSM warnt dabei), sobald man zwei ways zusammenfügt. Es führt nichts dran vorbei: die Richtung ändert sich (zumindest derzeit) oft. na dann wundert mich ja gar nix mehr... Stellt sich die Frage, warum macht er das, und muss das so sein? Das ist jetzt nicht dein Ernst, oder? doch. bitte erklaer's mir! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Konzept für die Gruppierung von ways ( ähnlich Linienbündel; Problem von drehenden ways bei =?iso-8859-1?q?_forward/backward?=)
Am Donnerstag 29 Juli 2010, 23:49:45 schrieb steffterra: Am 29.07.2010 um 23:34 schrieb Guenther Meyer: Am Donnerstag 29 Juli 2010, 23:15:07 schrieb steffterra: Er kann es aber leichter entscheiden, wenn er davon ausgehen kann, dass die Richtigkeit der Tags nicht von einem potentiell falsch gedrehten way wieder zunichte gemacht werden könnte. Er kann sich einfach sicher sein, dass auf der richtigen Seite getaggt wurde. Also eine Minimierung der Unsicherheitsfaktoren. einen Unsicherheitsfaktor hast du immer. Nachher kommt ein Mapper, sieht deine drei ways und denkt sich so ein Schmarrn, das ist doch nur ein Strasse, und zerlegt dir das Ganze wieder... ;-) Dafür gibts wikis und den Editro, der das ganze entsprechend rüberbringt. Note-tags gibts auch noch. leider keine 100%ige Loesung, aber die einzige, die wir im Moment haben. Für die Umsetzung müssen natürlich alle an einem Strang ziehen. +1 Abwärtskompatibilität bleibt ja dennoch erhalten. lassen wir uns ueberraschen. ich denke das koennte bei deinem Modell interessant werden. Man muesste mal ausprobieren, was ein heutiger Renderer aus deinem Modell machen wuerde (kann ich gerne machen, sobald was getaggtes vorliegt)... Letztendlich bleibt es dann doch wieder am Frontend haengen. Der User sollte nicht wissen muessen, ob er left, right, forward, backward taggen muss, oder ob er jetzt lieber ein Tag oder einen neuen way dranbasteln soll... doch woher soll das frontend wissen, wo backward usw. in der Realität ist? ist das so schwer?! der Editor kennt die Referenzrichtung des Weges, und kann sein backward Tag danach ausrichten und entsprechend anzeigen. Wie das in der Realitaet aussieht, weiss sowieso nur der User. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Konzept für die Gruppierung von ways ( ähnlich Linienbündel; Problem von drehenden ways bei =?iso-8859-1?q?_=3D=3Futf-8=3Fq=3F =5Fforward/backward=3F=3D?=)
Am Donnerstag 29 Juli 2010, 23:47:04 schrieb steffterra: Es war aber sicher der Fall gemeint, dass einer der beiden tags falsch war, da man den node von woanders hergezogen hat und dann bei der Vereinigung entwscheiden muss, was jetzt stimmt. aber völlig irrelevant. denn das problem hat man jetzt auch und sollte leicht zu lösen sein. Keine Diskussiongrundlage, wie ich meine. richtig, den Konflikt gibt es dann unabhaengig vom Modell. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wie Gemeindename taggen?
On 30.07.10 07:26, Pascal Neis wrote: Vielen Gemeinden sind in meiner Umgebung lediglich als Node mit name, place und weiteren Tags gemappt. Dabei verwenden sie immer das place=village Tag. Gibt es für die Abgrenzung innerhalb der Place-Nodes nicht für die Gemeinde eine andere Abstufung? Ich find's irgendwie nicht so richtig gut ... M.E. wäre ein expliziteres angeben eines Gemeindenames schon besser! (aus österr. Sicht, aber die ist nicht so grundsätzlich unterschiedlich, nur die Begriffe sind ggf. anders benannt) Bis hinunter zur Gemeinde ist in AT (Bundesländer, pol. Bezirke, Gemeinden) alles über Grenzpolygone definiert (und in OSM umgesetzt). Ja, es gibt das Problem, wo eine Beschriftung derselben am besten plaziert wird und wo das Zentrum solcher Gebiete anzunehmen ist. Gleichzeitig macht es für einen Router kaum Sinn, irgendwo dorthin zu routen*), außer vielleicht zum jeweiligen Verwaltungszentrum (Gemeindezentrum, BH, Landeshauptstadt; es würde Sinn machen, eine solche Info in die Grenzrelation mit aufzunehmen). Diese Info müßte es in OSM aber erst mal geben... Unterhalb gibt es Ortschaften verschiedenster Größe (von Wien bis zum letzten benannten isolated_dwelling; es gibt dafür ein Ortschaftsverzeichnis). Die sind als place= Nodes repräsentiert. Und dorthin zu routen macht wahrscheinlich Sinn (ich will nach Ort soundso). Allerdings bleibt das Problem, wo ich der Mittelpunkt dieses Ortes? vs. wo wird die Beschriftung hinplaziert. IMO sind place= Nodes momentan Beschriftungspunkte, die eben die Platzierung der Beschriftung definieren, und nicht wirklich den Ortsmittelpunkt angeben. Das sollte man theoretisch auch irgendwie lösen... Vom OpenGeoDB Import gibt es auch noch place nodes für die Gemeinde, aber die führten in den meisten Gemeinden zu einer störenden Doppelbeschriftung, weshalb sie großteils entweder gelöscht oder unsichtbar gemacht wurden. Die könne man ev. reaktivieren/umdefinieren als Gemeindemittelpunkte, müßte gleichzeitig aber den Renderern beibringen, das nicht zu rendern (weil Mapnik ja bekanntlich fast(?) jedes name= rendert) und man müßte/könnte eine Zuordnung zwischen Gemeindegrenze und Beschriftungsnode machen (wenn Du Gemeinden beschriften willst, dann platziere die Beschriftung bitte dorthin). *) nur so als Beispiel: die Gemeinde Wienerwald http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wienerwald_%28Gemeinde%29 besteht aus den Orten: - Dornbach - Grub - Sittendorf - Gruberau - Stangau - Sulz im Wienerwald - Wöglerin Wohin würde der Router routen wollen, wenn ich Gemeinde Wienerwald als Ziel angebe? Einen Ort Wienerwald gibt es nicht. Übrigens ist auch die Adresse in der Wikipedia Topfen, die Adresse des Gemeindeamtes ist Kirchenplatz 7, 2392 *Sulz* im Wienerwald. Nur das kannst Du aus OSM-Daten derzeit nicht rauslesen... Servus, Andreas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wie Gemeindename taggen?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 30.07.2010 07:26, schrieb Pascal Neis: Vielen Gemeinden sind in meiner Umgebung lediglich als Node mit name, place und weiteren Tags gemappt. Dabei verwenden sie immer das place=village Tag. Gibt es für die Abgrenzung innerhalb der Place-Nodes nicht für die Gemeinde eine andere Abstufung? Nein. Zwischen village und town bietet der place-Tag keine weitere Abstufung. Ich find's irgendwie nicht so richtig gut ... M.E. wäre ein expliziteres angeben eines Gemeindenames schon besser! Ist der Name einer Gemeinde nicht immer explizit? Ich verstehe nicht, was du hier meinst. Die administrativen Strukturen lassen sich über Grenzrelationen am besten wiedergeben, wie von Augustus beschrieben. Beste Grüße, Rainer -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMUnLSAAoJEPT/XJzV1tNzjmMIAImbnZnSIKhus3mCVc7zUSF2 VN7fxK3k4tV6xktRHKDexPI3eg0up7+pbHkgnEB6xRGcEvFRW1LztA853MJWgWow f8PNX7zgAkVnSGsAtVygNXFCls1MtIjdTYP84zl7MENZGijsHXYcmkFjsOebz2I6 zYGydfetqnvSk1rGNQF3yVl0kZX5dJaBznHvn1278j1ZP4+DZQSJP68mcP8X5ta6 iV6gV+28RDrgyTgjw5T1Y/r2QtowCFdj1NZMLcAxg7hOFB+mjp4zACy1DjdA0ZvH dAqkm0qAZ/1RgOA+HUADCkNEVizhiYifNhQ+MU8HCMReJZ6Bh3T8a3pRLHcd9yM= =mVV1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wie Gemeindename taggen?
Hi, bundesrainer schrieb: Am 30.07.2010 07:26, schrieb Pascal Neis: Vielen Gemeinden sind in meiner Umgebung lediglich als Node mit name, place und weiteren Tags gemappt. Dabei verwenden sie immer das place=village Tag. Gibt es für die Abgrenzung innerhalb der Place-Nodes nicht für die Gemeinde eine andere Abstufung? Nein. Zwischen village und town bietet der place-Tag keine weitere Abstufung. Ich find's irgendwie nicht so richtig gut ... M.E. wäre ein expliziteres angeben eines Gemeindenames schon besser! Ist der Name einer Gemeinde nicht immer explizit? Ich verstehe nicht, was du hier meinst. Der Hintergrund warum ich frage ist die Verwendung der Gemeinde-Node in einer Adresssuche. Man weiß zwar das es ein Place-Node ist, man kann aber nicht aus dem Tag direkt herauslesen das es sich lediglich um den Gemeindenamen und nicht um ein Dorf handelt. Klar, wenn man es mit einem Multipolygon löst braucht man sich darüber keine Gedanken machen, ich bin nur gestern Abend auf die Nodes gestoßen und dabei ist mir die Frage gekommen. Bei vielen anderen Tags gibt es doch eine Vielzahl von verschiedenen Values. Warum nicht also noch einen weiteren mehr beim Place-Tag um genau eine Gemeinde zu kennzeichnen und damit eine feiner Unterscheidung zu erhalten ... ? danke viele gruesse pascal ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wie Gemeindename taggen?
Hallo Pascal. Am Freitag 30 Juli 2010, 08:36:03 schrieb bundesrainer: Ich find's irgendwie nicht so richtig gut ... M.E. wäre ein expliziteres angeben eines Gemeindenames schon besser! Ist der Name einer Gemeinde nicht immer explizit? Ich verstehe nicht, was du hier meinst. Du meinst bestimmt so Fälle in denen der Name der Gemeinde nicht dem Namen des Haupt-Orts bzw. nicht einmal dem Namen irgend eines Ortes entspricht (Zusammenschluss-Gemeinde). Hier im Schwäbischen gibt es das in großer Menge und meine Meinung dazu ist: Diese Namen sind nicht als Objekt existent, das man mit einem Punkt abbilden könnte. Stadt- und Ortsnamen kann man mit einem Punkt abstrahieren, bei Zusammenschlussgemeinden ist das immer irgendwie hässlich. Es mag sein, dass dafür in deiner Gegend der place=village-Tag vergewaltigt wird, hier habe ich das auch schon gesehen. Das ist aber ein Mapping für die Renderer, da man nur erreichen will, dass der Name überhaupt irgendwo erscheint. Mittlerweile (u.A. durch die PLZ-Gebiete) ist unsere Abdeckung an Gemeindegrenzen schon recht stattlich geworden und ich denke man kann sich ruhig darauf verlassen, dass man in absehbarer Zeit jede Gemeinde über Multipolygon-Grenz-Relationen festgelegt hat. Du solltest in deiner Datenverarbeitung (und darum geht es vermutlich) lieber diese Grenzpolygone auswerten. Um deine Frage (genau wie die anderen Leute) zu beantworten: Nein, place=* ist nicht dafür gedacht, nicht existente Ortschaften zu taggen. Und diese unlogische Verwendung ist meiner Meinung nach auch nicht so verbreitet, dass man sich dem beugen müsste. Gruß, Bernd -- Joey: Phoebe willst du uns helfen? Phoebe: Oh, ich wünschte ich könnte aber ich will nicht. - Friends (am. Sitcom) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wie Gemeindename taggen?
Hi, Bernd Wurst schrieb: Am Freitag 30 Juli 2010, 08:36:03 schrieb bundesrainer: Ich find's irgendwie nicht so richtig gut ... M.E. wäre ein expliziteres angeben eines Gemeindenames schon besser! Ist der Name einer Gemeinde nicht immer explizit? Ich verstehe nicht, was du hier meinst. Du meinst bestimmt so Fälle in denen der Name der Gemeinde nicht dem Namen des Haupt-Orts bzw. nicht einmal dem Namen irgend eines Ortes entspricht (Zusammenschluss-Gemeinde). Genau das habe ich gemeint! Sorry wenn ich mich da etwas unverständlich ausgedrückt habe ... Hier im Schwäbischen gibt es das in großer Menge und meine Meinung dazu ist: Diese Namen sind nicht als Objekt existent, das man mit einem Punkt abbilden könnte. Stadt- und Ortsnamen kann man mit einem Punkt abstrahieren, bei Zusammenschlussgemeinden ist das immer irgendwie hässlich. Es mag sein, dass dafür in deiner Gegend der place=village-Tag vergewaltigt wird, hier habe ich das auch schon gesehen. Das ist aber ein Mapping für die Renderer, da man nur erreichen will, dass der Name überhaupt irgendwo erscheint. Jep. Um deine Frage (genau wie die anderen Leute) zu beantworten: Nein, place=* ist nicht dafür gedacht, nicht existente Ortschaften zu taggen. Und diese unlogische Verwendung ist meiner Meinung nach auch nicht so verbreitet, dass man sich dem beugen müsste. Danke für die Antwort! Damit hat sich dies für mich geklärt ... :o) viele gruesse pascal ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] phpMyGPX v0.6.1 veröffentlicht
Am 29.07.2010 20:40, schrieb Sebastian Klemm: P.S.: Sind derartige Mitteilungen hier überhaupt erwünscht oder wird das eher als Spam angesehen? Es handelt sich ja nicht direkt um ein OSM-Tool, auch wenn die Motivation zur Entstehung ausschließlich durchs Mappen zustande kam... Ich finde diese Ankündigungen wichtig, denn sonst weiß ja niemand vom Nützlichen Tool XYZ. Lg, Peter ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] tracktype an Nicht-tracks
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 09:36:26PM +0200, Heiko Jacobs wrote: Da im Forum gerade die Frage tracktype-Verwendung an highway=path Eine interessante Statistik. Ich bin kürzlich auch über einige highway=path gestolpert. Da ich das Wiki so verstanden habe, daß tracktype sich wirklich nur auf tracks bezieht, habe ich das verändert und durch Attribute wie smoothness, surface und width ersetzt, die IMHO mehr aussagen als sac_scale was ja eher auf die Schwierigkeit eines Wegs als auf dessen Beschaffenheit hindeutet (jedenfalls meine Interpretation). Da ich ohnehin zu einem mapper, der das auch gemacht hatte, Kontakt aufgenommen hatte, habe ich ihn auch auf meine Änderung hingewiesen. Ich habe jetzt keine Zeit, den diesbezüglichen Forum Thread zu lesen. Falls ich es war, der hier von der üblichen Konvention abgewichen ist und tracktype durchaus in Ordnung wäre, lasse ich mich gerne belehren. Viele Grüße Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] OpenTrailView
Moin ! hat sich einer von Euch schon mit OpenTrailView [1] beschäftigt. Wie sieht es aus mit dem unkenntlich machen von Gesichtern und Autokennzeichen ?? Gruß Jan :-) [1] http://www.free-map.org.uk/otv/ ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM V 3376 - josm-latest
hi, obwohl das nicht meine baustelle ist: ich hab im log gesehen, dass die entwickler in der letzten tagen irgenwas mit power/power line im josm-latest gemacht haben. eventuell ist das problem jetzt weg? kann sich ja mal jemand ansehen, der näher dran ist. mfg walter - if it's there and you can see it, it's REAL if it's there and you can't see it, it's TRANSPARENT if it's not there and you can see it, it's VIRTUAL if it's not there and you can't see it, it's GONE Roy Wilks, 1983 -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/JOSM-V-3376-tp5334585p5354181.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM V 3376 - josm-latest
Am 30.07.10 10:30, schrieb Walter Nordmann: hi, obwohl das nicht meine baustelle ist: ich hab im log gesehen, dass die entwickler in der letzten tagen irgenwas mit power/power line im josm-latest gemacht haben. eventuell ist das problem jetzt weg? Yep: type=line steht unübersetzt als line im Relationseditor. Gruß und Dank, André Joost ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wie Gemeindename taggen?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 30.07.2010 09:05, schrieb Bernd Wurst: Du meinst bestimmt so Fälle in denen der Name der Gemeinde nicht dem Namen des Haupt-Orts bzw. nicht einmal dem Namen irgend eines Ortes entspricht (Zusammenschluss-Gemeinde). Achso. Da stand ich etwas auf dem Schlauch. Solche Zusammenschlüsse gibt es auch vereinzelt in RLP. Bei den Schlussfolgerungen stimme ich Bernd zu: Ein nicht existenter Ort sollte auch nicht mit einer Node getaggt werden. Beste Grüße, Rainer -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMUpKlAAoJEPT/XJzV1tNzx4cIAIfK8flF/KvipMVxWTnWhEJp KlW6u7s9qu3SrBjWfEm3XVVmZKGchCwR6NY1a6MArvkuo7ImEoEZyrpHCHEuJDN6 RHU8e6Sd1HdU9SH1Vx1eQQJRlHN+92AGSg9ZYDsdDt1Nst3ql067NxvKxxl4i050 p3l4rI2D+j2K+iwtTWoLwcVtWJ3mTYw78sFFpj+LpR5r+HYrU+3tKrSzpUBXCsdi sLjoZ8vwCBcwVFnQLh6Jb1RTjseF5pBqw79kG/Jkbh6Fq3unAVRmRj+TDHRTy/7l 7xbpusrrBd2IbZ7j7Fe9k8Vmiqi4rwMt0CTcuRzHnmkhSO01wxoVVBGEG/2QOrg= =IAzo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] phpMyGPX v0.6.1 veröffentlicht
Moin, etwas was mich noch ein klein bisschen stört, du verwendest ja die Funktion set_time_limit um das Zeit Limit zu setzen. Bei größeren GPX Dateien kann es schnell passieren, das die angegebene Zeit nicht mehr ausreicht. Bei meinem Hoster kann man das Limit mir set_time_limit(0) aufheben. Es wäre schön, wenn man das in der config einfach umstellen könnte ;) Bei Tracks, die ohne Zeit und Höheninfos sind, wird dennoch versucht auf den Timestamp zuzugreifen. Warning: Division by zero in /www/osm/traces.html.php on line 116 Weitere Fehlermeldungen, die vermutlich auf die Fehlenden/Falschen (immer die gleiche) Zeitangabe zurückzuführen sind: bWarning/b: array_sum() [a href='function.array-sum'function.array-sum/a]: The argument should be an array in b/www/osm/graph.php/b on line b173/bbr / br / bWarning/b: array_fill() [a href='function.array-fill'function.array-fill/a]: Number of elements must be positive in b/www/osm/libraries/functions.inc.php/b on line b169/bbr / br / bWarning/b: array_fill() [a href='function.array-fill'function.array-fill/a]: Number of elements must be positive in b/www/osm/libraries/functions.inc.php/b on line b169/bbr / br / bWarning/b: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in b/www/osm/graph.php/b on line b184/bbr / Der Fotoimport funktionirt nun auch endlich :) Und als Spam betrachten würde ich das nicht, denn mit diesem Tool kann man sich ganz einfach GPS-Tracks auf OSM-Karten anzeigen lassen. Ansonsten weiter so :) Grüße Thomas Am Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:40:50 +0200, schrieb Sebastian Klemm osm-l...@freenet.de: Hallo allerseits, ich habe eine neue Version meiner PHP/MySQL/OpenLayers-basierten Web-Anwendung zur Verwaltung und Darstellung gesammelter GPX-Dateien und Fotos veröffentlicht. Nachdem sich die vorherige Version 0.6 leider als recht fehlerbehaftet herausgestellt hat, hoffe ich, dass die neue 0.6.1 etwas besser ist. Die wichtigsten Neuerungen sind: 0.6.1 - Unterstützung von Zeitzonen mit passender Anzeige von Uhrzeiten - automatisches Geotagging von Fotos während Import anhand von GPX - viele Fehler behoben 0.6 - verbesserte Suchfunktion: Datum und Zeiträume für alle Elemente - einfache Sortierfunktionen für alle Tabellen - Tooltips mit Beschreibung und Dateiname an Links zu GPX-Details - beim Fotoimport ist zuzuordnende GPX-Datei einfach wählbar - Tabellen-Layout nun abhängig von Nutzer/Admin-Modus - neuer Kartenstil: Hike Bike Map (Danke Colin!) - neues Overlay: Hillshading (auch von toolserver.org) - Geschwindigkeitsprofile für Tracks als Grafik - besseres Fehlerbehandlung beim Fotoimport Dank Jörg F. gibt es seit einiger Zeit auch eine deutsche Seite [2] im OSM-Wiki, sowie ein umfangreiche Anleitung (engl.) unter OpenSuse von Karl E. Anmerkungen, Kritik und Ergänzungen im Wiki sind natürlich willkommen :-) Viele Grüße, Sebastian [1] http://phpmygpx.tuxfamily.org/ [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:PhpMyGPX P.S.: Sind derartige Mitteilungen hier überhaupt erwünscht oder wird das eher als Spam angesehen? Es handelt sich ja nicht direkt um ein OSM-Tool, auch wenn die Motivation zur Entstehung ausschließlich durchs Mappen zustande kam... ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Probleme mit Seen und Inseln
On 2010-07-30 03:21 Willi wrote: On Donnerstag, 29. Juli 2010 17:05 schrieb Christoph Matthei christ...@matthei.org: Grundsätzlich gebe ich Dir recht; man sollte auf keinen Fall Multipolygone als Ersatz für Flächen ansehen. Ist es nicht so, dass Multipolygone die Flächendarstellung in OSM sind und area=yes und alle impliziten areas wie landuse früher zwar die einzigen Möglichkeiten waren aber jetzt eine Möglichkeit für einfache Fälle sind: Ja, das stimmt natürlich wiederum. OK, also mein Fazit lautet: größere Flächen sollten ruhig als Multipolygone kartiert werden (JOSM-plugins helfen dabei ja gut), aber bei den dazu zu verwendenden ways ist mit Vorsicht vorzugehen. Vorhandene Straßen zu benutzen ist zwar oft naheliegend, aber evt. ungenau (abhängig vom Einzelfall). Gruß, Christoph ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
