The BMW UUC Digest Volume 1 : Issue 30 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: FS: Recaro SRD Seats w/ BMW Sliders Re: Part number check San Diego Re: San Diego Re: FOLLOW-UP & QUERY: I may have broken my face - damn lug bolts Re: 5 series - 530 or 540?kk Re: 5 series - 530 or 540?kk CARFAX-SLAM Re: CARFAX-SLAM Lug Nut Torque Re: Lug Nut Torque Re: Lug Nut Torque Re: Lug Nut Torque Re: Lug Nut Torque Where did all the traffic go?
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:29:38 -0800 From: Peter Guagenti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FS: Recaro SRD Seats w/ BMW Sliders Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> FS: Recaro SRD Seats w/ BMW Sliders It's time to replace my adjustable seats with a fixed-position race seat, so these have to go. The pair of seats are black cloth, have the rear-seat access release, are in excellent condition, and have the optional slot sewn in for a sub-strap. Comes with the Recaro-built seat bases for the BMW E36. These are very high-end bases with full adjustability and a factory-type bolt-up system for the seat belt. Asking $1000 for the pair. Will consider trading for Sparco or comparable race seat. Can deliver to anywhere in the Bay Area in exchange for gas money. E-mail me with any questions. -peterg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:25:16 -0500 From: "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Part number check Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Steve, The pad number is correct (for Textar pads) according to the ETK. The rotor number however.... 34 11 1 165 455 According to the ETK is the appropriate number for that application. Note: (US spec stuff) The e46 323i (coupe/sedan) cars used the same pads/rotors/calipers as all of the e36 non-M 6 cylinder coupes and sedans as well as Z3. So simply because it says e46 does not make it wrong, but it does not always make it right either. Chet Dawes Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:20:25 -0500 (EST) From: "Steve.Goldstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Part number check I picked up a set of pads and rotors last week for my 1999 323is (the last of the E36). I noticed that the box containing the pads had notations for E46 on it. Can anyone confirm or deny that 34 11 6 761 244 is the correct number for pads? BTW, the rotors are 34 11 1 164 431. Is this right? Steve **************************************************************************************** Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. **************************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:44:21 -0500 From: Kathy Lyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: uucgarage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, BMWUUCDigest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: San Diego Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Brett and I are off to San Diego this Friday; he'll return home Tuesday while I stay till next Friday for a workshop. Any suggestions for where to go/what to do over the weekend? We're staying on Coronado Island at the Loew's Hotel. Thanks, Kathy -- Kathryn M. Lyle, CPA, CVA Lyle & Associates CPA www.lylecpa.com Creating Business Value ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:11:03 -0800 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "BMWUUCDigest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: San Diego Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cheetah's The Body Shop Pacer's Dirty Dan's Pure Platinum Oh never mind, I thought it was just Brett going ;-) Marco -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kathy Lyle Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 12:44 PM To: uucgarage; BMWUUCDigest Subject: [UUC] San Diego Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] Brett and I are off to San Diego this Friday; he'll return home Tuesday while I stay till next Friday for a workshop. Any suggestions for where to go/what to do over the weekend? We're staying on Coronado Island at the Loew's Hotel. Thanks, Kathy -- Kathryn M. Lyle, CPA, CVA Lyle & Associates CPA www.lylecpa.com Creating Business Value __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:35:41 -0500 From: Neil Maller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: FOLLOW-UP & QUERY: I may have broken my face - damn lug bolts Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 11/24/03 4:20 PM, "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > UPDATE: > > So I went to the so-far-unnamed-BMW-dealership last week to complain. I > never heard back from my service advisor, and it's been three weeks. I met > with the Service Director, who ostensibly is responsible for all service > customer satisfaction. I told him the full story (see below) and even gave > him the broken socket extension. He promised to look into it and get back > to me immediately; this was last Tuesday. No word since. > > Here's the really interesting part; he told me that as a matter of common > practice and policy, their technicians use torque sticks on their impact > wrenches to mount wheels. And that this was common practice in the > industry, as it also happened at every other shop at which he's worked. I > pointed out that even COSTCO requires its techs to use torque wrenches by > hand to mount wheel bolts/nuts. He reassured me that it is his dealership's > policy to permit the use of impact wrenches and torque sticks, as well as > the policy of other BMW dealerships. He also told me that he believed the > torque rating for wheel bolts on an E39 528iT is ~120 lb./ft. (which I > believe is much too high). Also, overtorquing to something in excess of 150 > lb./ft. is "not a big deal." > > So, a couple of questions: > > 1. Does this policy of allowing the use of impact wrenches and torque > sticks sound reasonable?!? Are you aware of other dealerships doing the > same thing? Yes, it's perfectly reasonable. Torque sticks work fine with impact wrenches, and in fact only with impact wrenches. Assuming of course the right torque stick is used and in the right way. My 17mm (nut size) torque stick is calibrated at 80 ft-lb. > 2. What is the official BMW torque spec for wheel bolts on an E39? Per the BMW TIS it's 120 *Nm* (= 88.8 ft-lb) and not 120 *ft-lb*. Incidentally this value represents an increase over what BMW used to recommend, which was 100 Nm/74 ft-lb. If the "mechanic," and I use the term loosely, who tightened your lug bolts to 120 ft-lb instead of 120 Nm, and also erred on the high side, then that might almost explain what happened. As a point of comparison, the C5 Corvette uses the same wheel bolt size, but recommends 105 ft-lb, so I suspect that modest over-tightening beyond the BMW spec isn't going to break anything. (Not that yours were modestly over-tightened...) Appropriate torque values depend on multiple factors including bolt material, thread pitch, amount of thread engagement, material into which the bolt is threaded, and whether the threads are lubricated. None of which changes the fact that however you look at it, your lug bolts were grossly over-tightened by the dealership. Neil 96 M3 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:50:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Brush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: 5 series - 530 or 540?kk Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Roger, Lemme grab this one before Don Eilenberger gets to ;^). You need to ask him really, really nicely if you can join his E39 Yahoo Group and ask away. http://tinyurl.com/wdz5 Jon http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bmwe39/?yguid=49778614 > From: "rblangille" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I'm considering moving to a 5 series (2000-2003). > > I'm curious as to whether to spring for the 540, > rather than the 530. No > doubt it's quicker and thirstier. > > But, does it handle as if it's a tad heavy in the > front? And for those of > you with auto transmissions, do you wish you had a > manual? > > Are there any options which are virtually a > necessity - e.g. the M-Sport > package? > > Finally, for those 5series owners who left their 3 > series behind - does the > 5 feel generally less responsive? > > Thanks. > > Roger > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:21:06 -0400 From: "rblangille" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jonathan Brush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: 5 series - 530 or 540?kk Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks Johnathan. I've now politely submitted my application, but stopped short of saying 'pretty please'. R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Brush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 6:50 PM Subject: Re:5 series - 530 or 540?kk > Roger, Lemme grab this one before Don Eilenberger gets > to ;^). You need to ask him really, really nicely if > you can join his E39 Yahoo Group and ask away. > http://tinyurl.com/wdz5 > Jon > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:59:12 -0800 From: "Chris Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: CARFAX-SLAM Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAJmxq2wIkGkq0qL9aOxmkBcKAAAAQAAAAriWnl9zqz0mf+/[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Group, I've been waiting for this for a long, long time. In a rare departure from civility, I would have to state that 'carfax sucks'. While this may not be very eloquent, I feel that this is a very straight-to-the-point assessment of how I (and many others) feel about them. Before I get to my rationale, I will say, in their defense, that public-perception of Carfax's true abilities and resources, has set them (Carfax) up for failure. Too many people blindly rely upon Carfax as an institution or a bastion of (100% accurate) information in which they solely base the purchase of their car on. Just take a look at Carfax's disclaimer at the bottom of each report: CARFAX DEPENDS ON ITS SOURCES FOR THE ACCURACY AND RELIABILITY OF ITS INFORMATION. THEREFORE, NO RESPONSIBILITY IS ASSUMED BY CARFAX OR ITS AGENTS FOR ERRORS OR OMISSIONS IN THIS REPORT. CARFAX FURTHER EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. CARFAXR To be sure, this definition is not only the last thing a person would see (if they bother to scroll all the way to the end) but totally subjective in nature. This is legalese and is loosely translated to state: If we are wrong, it isn't our fault, our 'sources' gave us this information. And by the way, the use of the word 'sources', alone, is ambiguous, subjective and misleading. Why not give your paying customers full accountability and list your (exact) sources? Where ARE you getting this information from?? Why skirt around the issues with some lame-ass blanket disclaimer? Are you afraid you'd lose revenue if you divulged your sources? Are you hiding moles in various DMV's? Seriously, why not tell us EXACTLY where the information (misleading/untruthful or not) is coming from. This may actually HELP you do business if your sources are accounted for and accountable. I've had salvage vehicles in my possession (and I had them for more than a year, well after the insurance company paid out on the car) only to have Carfax tell me that the car was a clean title and give me their $5,000 guarantee. I've even had two cars, that had NEVER been in an accident (I know this because I owned them since knew) only to have Carfax claim that one was salvaged and the other one was involved in an accident!!!! I could continue this vitriolic diatribe for hours. What I can say about Carfax is that, in no way, should anyone depend upon them 100%. They are, at best, a weak reference or indicator of a cars' potential history. I would also point out that some people must back-away from using Carfax as a bible and beginning their purchasing decision with "Carfax says this..." or "Carfax says that..." Chris 89 M3 http://www.inlacal.com 91 M5 93 850ci 98 M Roadster 00 M5 01 X5 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:10:17 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Chris Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: CARFAX-SLAM Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have seen odometer rollback messages on cars that I have owned. Some smog operator enters the mileage incorrectly, then you end up with a warning. Bora ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:48:30 -0800 From: "Kevin Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "BMW BMW BMW BMW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Lug Nut Torque Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dennis Liu wrote: > I pointed out that even COSTCO requires its techs to use > torque wrenches by hand to mount wheel bolts/nuts. I've been buying tires at Costco for almost 20 years (back since it was Price Club). I remember that the 13" Michelin XZX tires for my 2002 were less than $29 each and the 13" Michelin MXL tires for my 320i were just a little over $30 each. Every time I've been at Price Club, Price-Costco and Costco they have used an impact wrench and torque wrench, but the torque wrench had never been used to actually "torque" the lug nuts. The guys at Costco typically slam the lugs on with the impact gun at 100-150 foot pounds, set the torque wrench to spec and make sure it clicks on each lug. One time on my old Range Rover I think they had one lug at close to 200 foot pounds since I felt like I was going to snap my Craftsman 18" breaker bar trying to loosen the lug nut so I could torque to spec. after I got home. Kevin P.S. Not to pick on Costco, but Wheel Works (who will match Tire Rack web prices) just did the same thing to my '98 Range Rover (slam lugs on to over 100 foot pounds then walk around with a torque wrench getting a click on each lug). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:36:00 -0500 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Kevin Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "BMW BMW BMW BMW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Lug Nut Torque Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I originall wrote: > I pointed out that even COSTCO requires its techs to use > torque wrenches by hand to mount wheel bolts/nuts. Kevin responded: >[snip] Every time I've been at Price Club, Price-Costco and Costco they have used an impact wrench and torque wrench, but the torque wrench had never been used to actually "torque" the lug nuts. The guys at Costco typically slam the lugs on with the impact gun at 100-150 foot pounds, set the torque wrench to spec and make sure it clicks on each lug. One time on my old Range Rover I think they had one lug at close to 200 foot pounds since I felt like I was going to snap my Craftsman 18" breaker bar trying to loosen the lug nut so I could torque to spec. after I got home. ______________ A. FWIW, I've actually stood in the customer area at my local Costco, where we can watch the tech's working, and I witness them screwing the bolts/nut on by hand and tightening with a torque wrench. Since there are so many of them, though, I'm sure practices vary (though, I believe, Costco does advertise that it's policy is to install by hand and tighten by hand). B. I think I posted previously to this forum, in response to someone who mentioned that their ideal solution would be to use a torque stick and an impact wrench, then check with a manual torque wrench. I stated that if the impact wrench took it up to, say, 150 ft-lbs, and the torque wrench was set for 82 ft-lbs., one would get the "click" instantly and would never know just how tight the bolt/nut was. In other words, the torque wrench could correct for an under-torqued situation, but not if it was on too tight. I think this is what Kevin is experiencing? vty, --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:27:43 -0500 From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "BMW BMW BMW BMW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Lug Nut Torque Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Kevin Kelly wrote: > Every time I've been at Price Club, Price-Costco and Costco they have used > an impact wrench and torque wrench, but the torque wrench had never been > used to actually "torque" the lug nuts. The guys at Costco typically slam > the lugs on with the impact gun at 100-150 foot pounds, set the torque > wrench to spec and make sure it clicks on each lug. While it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the above is accurate. One might note that some techs use the impact to spin the lugs in WITHOUT tightening them down, then torque with a torque wrench. I do this on a regular basis. It's a pain to screw in 5 lugs by hand when you have an air tool beside you that can do it quickly. Any decent impact gun will allow partial throttle, so that even at the strongest torque setting, you're getting no where near where you need to be as far as final torque goes. My IR2131 is old, but still allows this control. With the torque wrench set at 85ft lb., I usually get at least 1/4 turn of the bolt before the click. Brett Anderson KMS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:27:44 +1000 From: "Kim Henshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'BMW BMW BMW BMW'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Lug Nut Torque Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Then there's torque limiting devices for impact wrenches...... Kim V Henshaw -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KMS - Brett Anderson Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 3:28 PM To: BMW BMW BMW BMW Subject: Re: Lug Nut Torque Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] Kevin Kelly wrote: > Every time I've been at Price Club, Price-Costco and Costco they have used > an impact wrench and torque wrench, but the torque wrench had never been > used to actually "torque" the lug nuts. The guys at Costco typically slam > the lugs on with the impact gun at 100-150 foot pounds, set the torque > wrench to spec and make sure it clicks on each lug. While it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the above is accurate. One might note that some techs use the impact to spin the lugs in WITHOUT tightening them down, then torque with a torque wrench. I do this on a regular basis. It's a pain to screw in 5 lugs by hand when you have an air tool beside you that can do it quickly. Any decent impact gun will allow partial throttle, so that even at the strongest torque setting, you're getting no where near where you need to be as far as final torque goes. My IR2131 is old, but still allows this control. With the torque wrench set at 85ft lb., I usually get at least 1/4 turn of the bolt before the click. Brett Anderson KMS __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:33:44 -0500 From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "UUC Digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Lug Nut Torque Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> AKA Torque Sticks, as referred to earlier in this thread. Not worth the steel they're made of if you ask me. How often do you have to have a chuck of steel rod tested to ensure that it still twists enough at a particular torque input? I've seen wheels fall off after the use of a correctly rated, but not brand new, torque stick. No thanks, you can keep that garbage. My torque wrenches tell the truth. They're calibrated at reasonable intervals to MIL specs and that's fine by me. Brett Anderson KMS > > Then there's torque limiting devices for impact wrenches...... > > Kim V Henshaw ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:45:12 -0500 (EST) From: tabe johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Where did all the traffic go? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I recently resubscribed to this list after a six or more month absence. There used to be two or three digests a day; now there's much, much less. Where did all the message traffic go? --tabe johnson Vancouver BC 1988 325is ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
