The BMW UUC Digest Volume 1 : Issue 39 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Movie Review Re: E30 fuel issues. Re: E30 fuel issues. Re: E30 fuel issues. Re: <E30> Electrical Goofiness Siezing Alternator Bearings Re: E36 fuel issues (was E30) Re: E36 fuel issues (was E30) Re: E36 fuel issues (was E30) Re: E36 fuel issues (was E30) <E34> bad temp sensor? Re: <E34> bad temp sensor? More on E30 fuel issues Re: E30 fuel issues Strange whining noise after hard braking
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:19:49 -0800 (PST) From: John Gallagher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Movie Review Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "The Haunted Mansion"-Disney The scariest thing about this movie is the car Eddie Murphy drives----a 745i. He eventually drives a stake through its' heart to put it out of our misery LOL JKG ===== [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://WWW.geocities.com/JohnKGallagher __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:44:26 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E30 fuel issues. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Joe, Mike has provided some good information, but I might add a little bit to that. A fairly general rule of thumb is that, if something goes out without warning, it's electrical. If something gradually gets worse and worse and finally goes out, it's mechanical. Has your car been harder to start lately? Have you noticed reduced power under load or at higher RPM? If you said yes to either of these questions, you're likely on the right track by hunting the fuel pump. If the car has run like a gem before this incident, my bet is on either the main or fuel pump relays. I've had more than one occassion where my main relay went out like this. I had a spare in the glove box, popped it in, and never had the problem again. . . until I bought another car. :-) Another thing that you might check is for loose connections on the ignition components: all 7 connections on the cap, and all three on the coil (the one that sends signal to the cap and the two terminals that receive power from the battery). My old 528e died one time immediately before I entered an Interstate entrance ramp. I pulled into an empty parking lot, checked a few connections, and found the singal wire on the ignition coil had popped off (I must have put it on loosely when I was fooling with it the week before). I secured it and didn't have the problem again. Hope this helps, and good luck! Brad "Shifty" Couvillon '85 Euro 535i <-- in hibernation '87 528e ex-'87 528e www.fatdaddybmw.com --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > So I think my fuel pump has died. I got into the > parking lot at work here > this morning and the engine died and wouldn't > restart. After sitting a while > I could restart it and make it around the parking > lot and it died again. > > As my car is an 87 and I have both a transfer and a > main pump (which wasn't > making any discernable noises before it died) should > I replace both, or just > the main pump or is there some other trouble > shooting that I should do. > > -- Joe __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:51:17 -0500 (EST) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bmw list) Subject: Re: E30 fuel issues. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >From Brad Couvillon > >Joe, > >Mike has provided some good information, but I might >add a little bit to that. > >A fairly general rule of thumb is that, if something >goes out without warning, it's electrical. If >something gradually gets worse and worse and finally >goes out, it's mechanical. Sounds about right. Conversely, if it is mechanical and suddenly stops working, it usually rattles/leaves offerings behind... >Has your car been harder to start lately? Nope. >Have you noticed reduced power under load or at higher RPM? Nope. >If you said yes to either of these questions, you're >likely on the right track by hunting the fuel pump. Uhoh... >If the car has run like a gem before this incident, my >bet is on either the main or fuel pump relays. I've >had more than one occassion where my main relay went >out like this. I had a spare in the glove box, popped >it in, and never had the problem again. . . until I >bought another car. :-) Ran good. Surprised me when it just sputtered and died. Surprised me even more when it failed to restart. It acted like it ran out of gas both times that it failed. In fact, the second time it actually restarted for about a half second or so, and no more after that. I pulled the main and fuel pump relays. I was able to pop the cover on the fuel pump relay it it is clean inside. No pitting at all. The main relay is not easily opened, but it is marked 17 Jul 1997 and is not a Bosch unit. I have a spare (not new, but different) so I will try that. >Another thing that you might check is for loose >connections on the ignition components: all 7 >connections on the cap, and all three on the coil (the >one that sends signal to the cap and the two terminals >that receive power from the battery). My old 528e >died one time immediately before I entered an >Interstate entrance ramp. I pulled into an empty >parking lot, checked a few connections, and found the >singal wire on the ignition coil had popped off (I >must have put it on loosely when I was fooling with it >the week before). I secured it and didn't have the >problem again. I will check these too as I recently had a new catalytic converter put in so they were in that area and might have bumped something. >Hope this helps, and good luck! Thanks for the help. If it is fuel pump related, I get the impression from what I have read that the car will run without the transfer pump, but with reduced performance. The car will not run without the main pump. Do the main pumps sometimes just go bad on their own, or does a bad main pump have a bad transfer behind it? -- Joe -- Joseph M. Krzeszewski Network Operations [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:36:35 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Couvillon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E30 fuel issues. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Ran good. Surprised me when it just sputtered and > died. Surprised me even > more when it failed to restart. It acted like it ran > out of gas both times > that it failed. In fact, the second time it actually > restarted for about a > half second or so, and no more after that. At least you know it's almost definitely fuel related, be it one of the pumps or some type of electrical problem (relay, ECU, etc). > I pulled the main and fuel pump relays. I was able > to pop the cover on the > fuel pump relay it it is clean inside. No pitting at > all. The main relay is > not easily opened, but it is marked 17 Jul 1997 and > is not a Bosch unit. I > have a spare (not new, but different) so I will try > that. For the fuel pump relay, you might try just swapping it out with your horn relay if the horn works fine. Both relays are just a standard 4-prong type. > If it is fuel pump related, I get the impression > from what I have read that > the car will run without the transfer pump, but with > reduced performance. > The car will not run without the main pump. Do the > main pumps sometimes just > go bad on their own, or does a bad main pump have a > bad transfer behind it? The car will run without the transfer pump as long as there is enough fuel in the tank. Like you said, it won't run with a bad main pump. When the transfer pump goes out, the main pump has to work harder, so the main pump has a higher likelyhood of failure. If your transfer pump went out a while back, the main pump might have just gone out. A lot of times, you'll be able to notice the transfer pump is on its way out when its buzzing gets louder. Then, of course, you will KNOW it's out when the car is running and you stick your head in the trunk and don't hear it buzzing. > -- Joe Brad Couvillon __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:51:00 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: <E30> Electrical Goofiness Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Scott, The power regulator for the antenna motor can fail and cause the excessive drain that you're experiencing. I had exactly the same problem and replaced on of the cheap electrolytic caps on the regulator board and the problem was solved. When electrolytics fail they invariably short. Some will show leakage or scorching or a bloated appearance when failed. Be sure to mark the orientation if you decide to replace it. I also used mil-spec from Digikey. -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:09:30 -0500 From: "Donald McMahon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Siezing Alternator Bearings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Joe, Dan, Ron, Martin etal: Thanks for the insights/suggestions re: rebuilding alternators. See questions below. I was able to get bearings at a local Bosch start/Alternator shop. Taking the alternator apart I was amazed at the difficulty of breaking the various nuts, screws & bolts. The front 24mm nut was particularly difficult - solved by clamping my 24mm crescent in a vise and using my half inch breaker bar with a 8mm allen hex on the shaft socket. The bearings where not as bad as I had first expected. The bearings were not difficult for me to remove because when I had everything apart I noticed that the rear bearing they gave me was wrong! So I left the bearings on, an trundled down to the shop this Monday showed them the wrong bearing and suggested while they were back there they pull/draw the bearings off the shaft - which they did - no charge. The additional down time gave me a chance to clean everything to a pristine condition. I had thought of a way to pull the bearings without using a bearing puller but did not have to resort to it. Tonight I will try to reassemble everything. Dan suggested that I get the "slip rings dressed." Are these the copper electrodes the graphite points rub against? Should I use medium or red thread lock on any of the screws bolts? Any ideas on the torque values on the front nut or through bolts? Thanks Again, Don McMahon, Okemos, MI PS don't rebuild your own alternator, unless you have to or like to waste a lot of time - whata PITA! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:05:19 -0500 From: Neil Maller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E36 fuel issues (was E30) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 12/1/03 5:20 PM, "Michael Gilbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You should troubleshoot the main DME relay, the fuel pump relay and any > associated grounds as this may be your problem, as it was with my E36 M3 > which would intermittently decide not to start. Using a test light, start > from the fuel pump connector and work your way back to the DME relay. You > may immediately find that there is good signal and ground at the fuel pump, > which would signal that your fuel pump is in fact bad. Which brings up an interesting point about the E36 fuel pump circuit. One might imagine that when the ignition is in the run position, the fuel pump is energized. But it just ain't so. Instead the pump is always energized when the ignition is in the *start* position, but in the run position only when the engine is actually running. When you turn the key to run, only a momentary pulse of power is sent to the pump. This is controlled by the DME. Needless to say my debugging of a suspected fuel pump issue would have been much more fruitful if I'd been aware of this crucial fact beforehand. It would also have helped if my fuel pump relay were located in the position indicated both by Bentley and BMW, but no such luck. Neil 96 M3 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:30:42 -0500 (EST) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bmw list) Subject: Re: E36 fuel issues (was E30) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >From Neil Maller > >Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >on 12/1/03 5:20 PM, "Michael Gilbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> You should troubleshoot the main DME relay, the fuel pump relay and any >> associated grounds as this may be your problem, as it was with my E36 M3 >> which would intermittently decide not to start. Using a test light, start >> from the fuel pump connector and work your way back to the DME relay. You >> may immediately find that there is good signal and ground at the fuel pump, >> which would signal that your fuel pump is in fact bad. > >Which brings up an interesting point about the E36 fuel pump circuit. One >might imagine that when the ignition is in the run position, the fuel pump >is energized. But it just ain't so. > >Instead the pump is always energized when the ignition is in the *start* >position, but in the run position only when the engine is actually running. >When you turn the key to run, only a momentary pulse of power is sent to the >pump. This is controlled by the DME. > >Needless to say my debugging of a suspected fuel pump issue would have been >much more fruitful if I'd been aware of this crucial fact beforehand. It >would also have helped if my fuel pump relay were located in the position >indicated both by Bentley and BMW, but no such luck. > >Neil >96 M3 > That is handy to know. Does anyone know if the E30 worked this way too? -- Joe -- Joseph M. Krzeszewski Network Operations [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:38:50 -0500 From: "Chris Pawlowicz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "bmw list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E36 fuel issues (was E30) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > From Neil Maller > >Instead the pump is always energized when the ignition is in the *start* > >position, but in the run position only when the engine is actually running. > >When you turn the key to run, only a momentary pulse of power is sent to the > >pump. This is controlled by the DME. > > That is handy to know. Does anyone know if the E30 worked this way too? > > -- Joe yes, E30's are sort of the same.. if you turn your key to 'run' position, you'll hear the fuel pump start buzzing but that only lasts a few seconds and then it will shut off.. it only keeps running if the engine is running Chris Pawlowicz Stebro Stainless Performance Exhaust http://cpcperformance.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:36:11 -0800 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Neil Maller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E36 fuel issues (was E30) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Another interesting thing is that hitting the fuel tank right below the with the palm of your hand (hard 2-3 times) most of the time get the fuel pump to start. It happened to one of my employees the other day. He drives a 93 E36 325. He called me and said "my car won't start". He knows I do most of my own work on my race car so that's why he called. So I drove over to the fast food joint where he was stranded and gave the car a try. It would crank, then "start" but die toute suite. So I just rapped the gas tank hard 3 times while he was cranking it over and it fired right up and off we went back to work. ;-) Marco -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil Maller Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 1:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [UUC] E36 fuel issues (was E30) Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] on 12/1/03 5:20 PM, "Michael Gilbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You should troubleshoot the main DME relay, the fuel pump relay and any > associated grounds as this may be your problem, as it was with my E36 M3 > which would intermittently decide not to start. Using a test light, start > from the fuel pump connector and work your way back to the DME relay. You > may immediately find that there is good signal and ground at the fuel pump, > which would signal that your fuel pump is in fact bad. Which brings up an interesting point about the E36 fuel pump circuit. One might imagine that when the ignition is in the run position, the fuel pump is energized. But it just ain't so. Instead the pump is always energized when the ignition is in the *start* position, but in the run position only when the engine is actually running. When you turn the key to run, only a momentary pulse of power is sent to the pump. This is controlled by the DME. Needless to say my debugging of a suspected fuel pump issue would have been much more fruitful if I'd been aware of this crucial fact beforehand. It would also have helped if my fuel pump relay were located in the position indicated both by Bentley and BMW, but no such luck. Neil 96 M3 __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:50:06 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Brush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: <E34> bad temp sensor? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Learned Gruppe: Patient is 1992 535i/5. This AM the temp readout on the OBC went to <cue drum roll> -535 F. It's chillly outside but not thaat cold in Boston. Is this a bad teutonic joke, keyed to the model designation, or a symptom of a bad tem sensor? What's do I look for besides a new sensor from the dealer? When I get home I can peruse Bentley but thought I'd ask here first. Jon __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:02:25 -0800 From: "JSN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: <E34> bad temp sensor? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm guessing it's been raining in Bahstan, huh? This seems to happen when water gets into the plug socket near the sensor itself. The sensor's on the drivers side (if I recall) under the front bumper. Remove the access panel and clean out the little plug right behind the sender. Then, give it a day or so to "recover". (Don't ask me why you need to do that last step...). Then, if you figure out why it shows "535" when it FUBARs, please explain it to the rest of us. Jeff 90 535i ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Brush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 2:50 PM Subject: <E34> bad temp sensor? > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Learned Gruppe: > > Patient is 1992 535i/5. This AM the temp readout on > the OBC went to <cue drum roll> -535 F. It's chillly > outside but not thaat cold in Boston. Is this a bad > teutonic joke, keyed to the model designation, or a > symptom of a bad tem sensor? What's do I look for > besides a new sensor from the dealer? > > When I get home I can peruse Bentley but thought I'd > ask here first. > > Jon > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:59:35 -0500 (EST) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bmw list) Subject: More on E30 fuel issues Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks to everyone who has been helping me. I think the car just wants attention. I cleaned the blades on the main relay and the fuel pump relay, put them back and now the car seems to run fine. I do get a bit of a gas smell in the car, so I am going to go look at the hoses on the tank tomorrow, but it still runs. I got a ride home from a coworker tonight (as I don't trust it yet) and I am going to go get new relays tomorrow. It is the simple and cheap place to start. With the car running I can hear the main pump running but I have to put my ear down by the rocker panel. I assume that this is a normal level of buzzy noise. I couldn't hear the in tank pump but I didn't have the cover open or the sound deadening out of the way. I hate strange intermittent problems. -- Joe -- Joseph M. Krzeszewski Network Operations [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:20:51 -0800 (PST) From: Kyle Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E30 fuel issues Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You can take a dead blow hammer and pound on the right side tank while you have a friend try to start the car. If the car will stay running with a repeatative hammering then you have a bad pump. I know this is a old flat rate trick but I have seen it work many times. Kyle Sanchez __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:41:16 -0500 From: "M540" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Strange whining noise after hard braking Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> All: My wife's 1995 M3 has developed a strange problem that I was hoping to poll the list's collective wisdom on. Her car sounds/drives normally after starting until the driver gets on the brakes relatively hard (not ABS hard, just firmer than a normal stop). After this a quiet whining sound (seemingly from the engine bay) appears and does not go away until the car has been turned off and restarted. The sound seems to vary with engine speed and can best be described as a whine similar to a small electric motor. When the clutch is depressed while rolling the whine disappears but is seemingly replaced by a groaning sound that may be coming from the steering wheel/column (unrelated?). I know this is a bizarre set of descriptions but if it rings any bells or if you have any suggestions on where to start I'd really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance! Kevin ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
