The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 390 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: E36 M50 oil temp vs. water temp - which is better to monitor? Re: E36 M50 oil temp vs. water temp - which is better to monitor? Re: E36 M50 oil temp vs. water temp - which is better to monitor? Re: E36 M50 oil temp vs. water temp - which is better Re: E30 temperature gauge and sender Speaking of Mobil-1 Oil - 0W-40? Re: Speaking of Mobil-1 Oil - 0W-40? Re: Speaking of Mobil-1 Oil - 0W-40? <E30> differential cover Re: <E30> differential cover Re: <E30> differential cover Re: <E30> differential cover New 545i Engine Break In Re: New 545i Engine Break In New 545i Engine Break In
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:03:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Thoeming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: uucdigest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: E36 M50 oil temp vs. water temp - which is better to monitor? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On my ITS RX-7, I monitored oil P, Oil temp, and water temp. On my street 325i, I'm considering doing just one and for the street, water temp seems most important to me. But, I have no experience with a normal piston-based engine. How do water temp and oil temp compare in an M50 motor? In other words, what is a normal max oil temp to see in the M50 motor when at a track day vs. a normal drive to work? Is this oil temp a good indication of about when you might boil over your water/coolant mix? It was NOT in my rotary RX-7... Thanks, Pete ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:33:11 -0700 From: Jim Bassett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 M50 oil temp vs. water temp - which is better to monitor? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On my ITS RX-7, I monitored oil P, Oil temp, and water > temp. On my street 325i, I'm considering doing just > one and for the street, water temp seems most > important to me. I would tend to agree, on a street-only car, water temp would be more important (especially with the 3-stage stock water temp gauge: cold, normal, oh sh*t! :-)). However, be aware that if you want to know when the *engine* is warmed up, you'll want to monitor oil temp, as it takes longer to reach operating temp than water. > How do water temp and oil temp compare in an M50 > motor? > > In other words, what is a normal max oil temp to see > in the M50 motor when at a track day vs. a normal > drive to work? I have both water & oil temp gauges in the 325is race car. On street driving, the oil temp is usually ~200F. I can get to 250F easily on the track. > Is this oil temp a good indication of about when you > might boil over your water/coolant mix? I would think monitoring the WATER temp would be an appropriate indication of when the WATER was going to boil over. :-) Hope that helps, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 - stock gauges 1993 325is #44 JP/A5 - 3 extra gauges and a BIG red low oil pressure warning light :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 19:11:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Thoeming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Jim Bassett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 M50 oil temp vs. water temp - which is better to monitor? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> So where did you put your water temp sensor? upper rad hose? some housing? I agree with you on all the points you made - I'm just feeling too lazy to put in the water thermo sensor. Thanks, Pete --- Jim Bassett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On my ITS RX-7, I monitored oil P, Oil temp, and > water > > temp. On my street 325i, I'm considering doing > just > > one and for the street, water temp seems most > > important to me. > > I would tend to agree, on a street-only car, water > temp would be more > important (especially with the 3-stage stock water > temp gauge: cold, > normal, oh sh*t! :-)). However, be aware that if you > want to know when > the *engine* is warmed up, you'll want to monitor > oil temp, as it takes > longer to reach operating temp than water. > > > How do water temp and oil temp compare in an M50 > > motor? > > > > In other words, what is a normal max oil temp to > see > > in the M50 motor when at a track day vs. a normal > > drive to work? > > I have both water & oil temp gauges in the 325is > race car. On street > driving, the oil temp is usually ~200F. I can get to > 250F easily on the > track. > > > Is this oil temp a good indication of about when > you > > might boil over your water/coolant mix? > > I would think monitoring the WATER temp would be an > appropriate > indication of when the WATER was going to boil over. > :-) > > Hope that helps, > Jim Bassett > 1998 M3/4 - stock gauges > 1993 325is #44 JP/A5 - 3 extra gauges and a BIG red > low oil pressure > warning light :-) > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:27:04 -0700 From: Jim Bassett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Peter Thoeming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 M50 oil temp vs. water temp - which is better Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 07:11 PM 10/7/04, Peter Thoeming talked about: >So where did you put your water temp sensor? >upper rad hose? >some housing? Yes :-) http://www.jimbassett.com/WaterTemp1.jpg >I agree with you on all the points you made - I'm just >feeling too lazy to put in the water thermo sensor. Ah. I usually have the filter things through my "laziness" filter, too :-) Jim Bassett ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:38:59 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E30 temperature gauge and sender Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Joe, one sender feeds the dash gauge, and the other feeds the ECU. If the ECU thinks the engine is not warmed up, it will call for a richer mixture - you figured that out. My dash gauge runs at about 3/8 on the scale, which might be maybe 11 o'clock or 11:30? Anyway, I changed the thermostat and it did not change the gauge. My car runs well and passes smog, so I'm not concerned. HTH, Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA 1990 325i >Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 23:54:17 -0400 (EDT) >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bmw list) >Subject: E30 temperature gauge and sender >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Over the summer I had reports of my E30 325i blowing some black smoke on >hard acceleration or shifts. I had noticed a slightly richer exhaust smell >until the car warmed up as well. Now I notice that my temperature gauge >which typically stabilized at the 12:00 position is more to the 11:45 >position. I have not seen a check engine light at all so far. > >I am starting to suspect the beginings of a failing temperature sensor. > >I know that the i series engines have two sensors on the thermostat housing. >Is the one that drives the gauge the same one the engine uses to adjust the >fuel maps, or are they different sensors? > >I am considering pulling the sensor and checking it with a pan of water on >the stove, a thermometer, and a VOM. > >Ideas? > >-- Joe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:44:40 -0400 From: Steve Lilley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: BMW UUC Digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Speaking of Mobil-1 Oil - 0W-40? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I've recently done some light research on Mobil-1, after I noticed that I accidentally put the new Mobil-1 0W-40 in my 330i this weekend. From reading about oils (specifically Mobil-1), I learned that 15W-50 is roughly twice as "thick" as 10W-30. I decided to compile a list of Mobil-1 oil types and their various specs, so I could compare them. Here are the items that look relevant to me: 0W-30 5W-30 10W-30 0W-40 15W-50 ----- ----- ------ ----- ------ Viscosity @40C 56 56 62 80 125 Viscosity @100C 10.3 10.0 10.0 14.3 17.4 Viscosity Index 175 167 147 187 153 HTHS Visc @150C 2.99 3.08 3.17 3.60 5.11 Pour Point (C) -54 -45 -45 -54 -45 Flash Point (C) 234 224 244 236 230 In my 330i, I normally use 10W-30 in the summer, a mix of 10W-30 and 15W-50 for DE events, and 0W-30 in the winter (the car sits outside in the driveway, and it only gets driven twice per week). I'm from the Northeast (Philly area), and we get lots of mornings below 10F. I think the 0W-40 is new; it seems to fall somewhere between 10W-30 and 15W-50 from the info I collected above. The 0W designation confuses me, however, because this stuff would appear to be thick from the specs above (although there aren't any specs available at 0 degrees C, where I would expect the 0W- oils to have lower viscosity than the other oils). I plan on changing out the 0W-40 today for some 0W-30, since the weather is getting cold fast. Anyone have any opinions on the Mobil-1 0W-40 (they call it the European Car Formula)? Regards, Steve '04 330i ZHP ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:57:31 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Speaking of Mobil-1 Oil - 0W-40? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Just my unprofessional $.02? The 0W40 is the Porsche factory fill for the 911, and what I use in my wife's 996 year-around, including track events in August and commuting in January (in New England). Works great; the only problem is finding it on the shelf at Wal-Mart (periodically out of stock, so whenever they do have it, I buy all of it I can get my hands on, as the 911 takes a *lot* of oil). For the BMWs (740iL & 528iT), I use 5w-30 that I buy really cheap at Costco. Seems to work great year around, but no track events on them. I currently use 15W-50 on the 355, but that's mostly a 3-season car with track use, and I'm thinking about switching to 0W-40. Steve, just how often do you change your oil?!? :-) vty, --Dennis -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Lilley Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 2:45 PM To: BMW UUC Digest Subject: [UUC] Speaking of Mobil-1 Oil - 0W-40? I've recently done some light research on Mobil-1, after I noticed that I accidentally put the new Mobil-1 0W-40 in my 330i this weekend. From reading about oils (specifically Mobil-1), I learned that 15W-50 is roughly twice as "thick" as 10W-30. I decided to compile a list of Mobil-1 oil types and their various specs, so I could compare them. Here are the items that look relevant to me: 0W-30 5W-30 10W-30 0W-40 15W-50 ----- ----- ------ ----- ------ Viscosity @40C 56 56 62 80 125 Viscosity @100C 10.3 10.0 10.0 14.3 17.4 Viscosity Index 175 167 147 187 153 HTHS Visc @150C 2.99 3.08 3.17 3.60 5.11 Pour Point (C) -54 -45 -45 -54 -45 Flash Point (C) 234 224 244 236 230 In my 330i, I normally use 10W-30 in the summer, a mix of 10W-30 and 15W-50 for DE events, and 0W-30 in the winter (the car sits outside in the driveway, and it only gets driven twice per week). I'm from the Northeast (Philly area), and we get lots of mornings below 10F. I think the 0W-40 is new; it seems to fall somewhere between 10W-30 and 15W-50 from the info I collected above. The 0W designation confuses me, however, because this stuff would appear to be thick from the specs above (although there aren't any specs available at 0 degrees C, where I would expect the 0W- oils to have lower viscosity than the other oils). I plan on changing out the 0W-40 today for some 0W-30, since the weather is getting cold fast. Anyone have any opinions on the Mobil-1 0W-40 (they call it the European Car Formula)? Regards, Steve '04 330i ZHP Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:22:50 -0700 From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Speaking of Mobil-1 Oil - 0W-40? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 02:44:40PM -0400, Steve Lilley wrote: > I plan on changing out the 0W-40 today for some 0W-30, since the > weather is getting cold fast. Unless it's time to change anyway, don't waste oil. The "0w" part indicates the cold weather viscosity, so both oils should be nearly the same at cold temps. The 40 applies at running temperature. And since they're both quality synthetics, I doubt you'd see any difference between them above -40(C and F). -- "It is an honor to be Cookie Monster." -Sesame Street spokeswoman Audrey Shapiro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:04:18 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: <E30> differential cover Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Anyone have a trick method for holding down the differential in order to pull and then reattach the cover (off the car)? On the LS that we pulled on the e30 "iS" we also purchased a coupe cover with he extended fins (Alpina like). But the question is should we bolt the diff into the target car and then put the new cover on or do it while the "new" differential is out of either car? How do you hold the unit down while torqueing the bolts back on? Maybe the best is a loose attachment to insure that the gasket is flat and well positioned and then a final torque with the diff into position on the target car. This still leaves open the question of removal of the current cover from the free differential. I was thinking that we could bolt the lower flange to a long 2 x 4 or sheet of plywood held down by some means. -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:02:27 -0400 From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: <E30> differential cover Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> call me a dummy, but I don't think the diff cover needs to have enough torque on it that you need to hold the diff down with anything other than your hands. with the diff sitting on something on the ground I don't ever recall it squirming around all that much. the torque on the cover isn't very high IIRC. Ben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Anyone have a trick method for holding down the differential in order to >pull and then reattach the cover (off the car)? On the LS that we pulled on >the e30 "iS" we also purchased a coupe cover with he extended fins (Alpina >like). > >But the question is should we bolt the diff into the target car and then >put the new cover on or do it while the "new" differential is out of either >car? How do you hold the unit down while torqueing the bolts back on? > >Maybe the best is a loose attachment to insure that the gasket is flat and >well positioned and then a final torque with the diff into position on the >target car. This still leaves open the question of removal of the current >cover from the free differential. > >I was thinking that we could bolt the lower flange to a long 2 x 4 or sheet >of plywood held down by some means. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:08:36 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: <E30> differential cover Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> impact wrench. Marco set to stun, not kill -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ben keyes Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 5:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [UUC] <E30> differential cover call me a dummy, but I don't think the diff cover needs to have enough torque on it that you need to hold the diff down with anything other than your hands. with the diff sitting on something on the ground I don't ever recall it squirming around all that much. the torque on the cover isn't very high IIRC. Ben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Anyone have a trick method for holding down the differential in order to >pull and then reattach the cover (off the car)? On the LS that we pulled on >the e30 "iS" we also purchased a coupe cover with he extended fins (Alpina >like). > >But the question is should we bolt the diff into the target car and then >put the new cover on or do it while the "new" differential is out of either >car? How do you hold the unit down while torqueing the bolts back on? > >Maybe the best is a loose attachment to insure that the gasket is flat and >well positioned and then a final torque with the diff into position on the >target car. This still leaves open the question of removal of the current >cover from the free differential. > >I was thinking that we could bolt the lower flange to a long 2 x 4 or sheet >of plywood held down by some means. > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:33:05 -0400 From: CsWs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: <E30> differential cover Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I dont think the torque was much over 50 ft/lbs so a impact set to stun is still overkill. Do what Ben said and just torque it on da ground! Also a good time to fill it! If you dropped the R sub I would also reattach it while on the ground as its hard to torque the upper diff bolts when on ze car. AMHIK Other things to do to keep everything in place is use a little thread locker when reinstalling, and mark the bolt heads to make sure nothing loosens up. If your last name is Miller this is a Moral Imparative! As it will break, or fall off for you :P Karl E30 Racecar E34 535i manual FS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:17:52 -0700 From: "Kevin Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "BMW BMW BMW BMW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: New 545i Engine Break In Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> A co-worker just got a new 545i and wanted to know if I heard anything about engine break in before he really starts to push the car. Any tips other than the usual vary the revs and stay away from red line for the first 1,000 miles or so? Kevin Kelly BMW CCA 50039 P.S. A friend just bought a used 2002 Lexus SUV and wanted to know if I knew of any place on line where he can buy a Lexus/Toyota Landcruiser shop manual on CD ROM. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:28:53 -0400 From: CsWs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New 545i Engine Break In Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Kevin, There are 2 trains of thought on this topic. 1) Drive it like you stole it. because this will seat the valves spring etc. better than taking it easy on the motor. 2) drive it like a nanny and just vary your spead without getting over a certain RPM for S&G say 4k RPM The reason #2 was popular is olden day machining tech. left burrs and other unwanted crap in the block that was BAD for the engine. With todays percision instruments #1 seems to be gaining popularity. Because there tends not to be the harmful crap waiting to mess up your engine. Either way I would change out the factory oil after about 500 to1k miles and replace with synth. If your friend is worried about warranty issues have him check all documentation to see what form of break in is speciifed. Usually the dealer just tells you to vary the RPM over the 1st 500 miles and not go over X RPM. Karl being more helpful than usual E30 racecar E34 535i manual FS On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:17:52 -0700, Kevin Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A co-worker just got a new 545i and wanted to know if I heard anything about > engine break in before he really starts to push the car. Any tips other > than the usual vary the revs and stay away from red line for the first 1,000 > miles or so? > > Kevin Kelly > BMW CCA 50039 > > P.S. A friend just bought a used 2002 Lexus SUV and wanted to know if I knew > of any place on line where he can buy a Lexus/Toyota Landcruiser shop manual > on CD ROM. > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:19:08 -0700 From: Tom Kosmalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: New 545i Engine Break In Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Don't know about the 545's V-8 (lucky dog!), but the owner's manual gave some specific break in limitations on my pretty new 2.5 I-6. I think it was to stay below 4k rpm for 1 or 2k miles. Anyway, the break in reqs were in the manual for the I-6, so I bet they are for the V-8 too! I note that I found these reqs in the manual by chance, after being told BY THE BMW CLIENT ADVISOR (I think that means "car salesman") not to worry about break in rpms, just make sure and vary the engine speed! Tom K. Hood River, OR ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
