The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 551 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: English English English Re: English Re: English Re: English Re: English Re: English Re: Porsche 911 (was English) Re: English Re: English Re: English Re: Porsche 911 (was: English) Wagons--oops--Touring Re: <E30> Handling with offset control arm bushing
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:53:32 -0800 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: English Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uncle, uncle. please stop -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Daley Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 9:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [UUC] English __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:22:30 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: English Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Tom: Something similar: When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years. - attributed by Reader's Digest, Sept. 1937. This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain, but until the attribution can be verified, the quote should not be regarded as authentic. Neil Deshpande - learnt it as "learnt" *** Tom Kosmalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: English (Dads) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Neil wrote of how much he learned (lernt?) from his Dad. It reminded me that when I was 16, my father knew nothing. When I was 20, he occasionally had an interesting point. It wasn't until quite a bit later that he finally got to be pretty darn intelligent! (yes, subtly trying to move the thread along past punctuation and pronunciation) Tom K. 04 325iT (which he just calls "the wagon" or "B-car", thereby completely avoiding the confuusion of bimmer vs. beemer) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:26:51 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected] Subject: English Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Marty: Fortay isn't totally incorrect, just not clearly the only right way of saying it. At least not in British English. Cache pronounced as cashay is. Neil Deshpande *** marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Just to add another oft-misused word that gets my panties in a wad, so to speak. So many people say 'something is his for-tay' meaning strong point. Forte is pronounced 'fort' meaning strong point while 'for-tay' means loud. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:21:42 -0500 From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: English Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Impressive! I was too young then to remember it clearly now, but I think my parents had to teach me English. :-) ************* > Bruno ->Doesn't have to learn French... born with it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:20:06 -0500 From: marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: English Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Man, no wonder English is considered such a difficult language to learn. Thanks for the clarifications. I guess I need a more expansive dictionary or need to check that online MerriamWebster with much more etymology and usage than my little college dictionary. At least my wife will now be spared my pouncing on any commentator who says for-tay. Now I'll just say "well, they can pronounce forte at least six different ways and they're all ok". (i think the period inside the quotes is the US English convention but I prefer it outside). I will try to refrain from posting any more on this topic as it's apparent some are tiring of it :) marty Neil Deshpande wrote: >Fortay isn't totally incorrect, just not clearly the >only right way of saying it. > Jamie Howton wrote: 2 : one's strong point usage In forte we have a word derived from French that in its "strong point" sense has no entirely satisfactory pronunciation. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:30:19 -0500 From: "Bruno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: English Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> English a difficult language to learn??? I don't think so. Try learning any asian language or even French... People are lazy and they just modify the language. Bruno ->Doesn't have to learn French... born with it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [UUC] English > Man, no wonder English is considered such a difficult language to learn. > > Thanks for the clarifications. I guess I need a more expansive > dictionary or need to check that online MerriamWebster with much more > etymology and usage than my little college dictionary. > > At least my wife will now be spared my pouncing on any commentator who > says for-tay. Now I'll just say "well, they can pronounce forte at > least six different ways and they're all ok". (i think the period > inside the quotes is the US English convention but I prefer it outside). > > I will try to refrain from posting any more on this topic as it's > apparent some are tiring of it :) > > marty > > Neil Deshpande wrote: > > >Fortay isn't totally incorrect, just not clearly the > >only right way of saying it. > > > Jamie Howton wrote: > > 2 : one's strong point > usage In forte we have a word derived from French that in its "strong > point" sense has no entirely satisfactory pronunciation. > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:08:59 -0600 From: Jamie Howton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: English Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:25:52 -0500, marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just to add another oft-misused word that gets my panties in a wad, so > to speak. So many people say 'something is his for-tay' meaning strong > point. Forte is pronounced 'fort' meaning strong point while 'for-tay' > means loud. According to the Merriam Webster online dictionary, there are three common pronounciations of forte, as follows: ===================================== Main Entry: 1forte Pronunciation: 'fOrt, 'fort; 2 is often 'for-"tA or for-'tA or 'for-tE Function: noun Etymology: French fort, from fort, adjective, strong 1 : the part of a sword or foil blade that is between the middle and the hilt and that is the strongest part of the blade 2 : one's strong point usage In forte we have a word derived from French that in its "strong point" sense has no entirely satisfactory pronunciation. Usage writers have denigrated \'for-"tA\ and \'for-tE\ because they reflect the influence of the Italian-derived 2forte. Their recommended pronunciation \'fort\, however, does not exactly reflect French either: the French would write the word le fort and would rhyme it with English for. So you can take your choice, knowing that someone somewhere will dislike whichever variant you choose. All are standard, however. In British English \'fo-"tA\ and \'fot\ predominate; \'for-"tA\ and \for-'tA\ are probably the most frequent pronunciations in American English. ======================== Regards -- Jamie Howton 2002 330i 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:04:45 -0600 From: Scott Staewen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: English Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Excellent. That's one of my wife's pet peeves too. It's funny, too, that when pronounced correctly it invariably results in stares that seem to say: "yew dumb shee-it." Scott Staewen On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:25:52 -0500, marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just to add another oft-misused word that gets my panties in a wad, so > to speak. So many people say 'something is his for-tay' meaning strong > point. Forte is pronounced 'fort' meaning strong point while 'for-tay' > means loud. > > I live in the US not-so-deep south where we have some interesting > pronunciations. Like two syllables for single syllable words like > see-it (sit), shee-it for example. One I can't figure out how it could > have originated is pronouncing ask as 'axe'. > > I'm as guilty as many of mangling the English language but this is a fun > thread. > > marty > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:22:33 -0800 From: Mark Gold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Porsche 911 (was English) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> As an avid Mac user, enthusiast and Apple employee, I have to agree with Damon for the most part, though I'm not sure about the "corporate management infighting", as things have been relatively quiet since Gil Amelio left in July of 1997. On Feb 17, 2005, at 3:11 PM, Damon wrote: > Andre Yew wrote: >> >> A highly evolved one. A computer analogy: the 911 is the x86 of the >> car >> world: poor design with tons of money and engineering thrown at it to >> make it the fastest car in its class (as measured by SPEC numbers for >> Pentiums and Athlons, and GT class wins for the car). >> > > Hmmm, coming from the car industry perspective, I'd rather say the 911 > is > like the Mac, an inspired and great design coming from a tiny > underresourced > company, succeeding because of that despite a comparative lack of > power, a > product program in disarray, corporate management infighting, and an > industry hell bent on platform sharing. Also like the Mac, it's not > for > everybody. > > :^) > > -Damon > '94 325i > '95 993 <<< I actually own one you guys! > > And 3 Wintel PC's and 2 Wintel laptops (and a couple old Macs in the > closet) > > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > ___ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW > CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > Sincerely, Mark Gold Sacramento Chapter BMWCCA 916-852-6533 (home) 916-743-7153 (cell) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1991 Lagunengr�n 318ic as well as a 12" PowerBook G4 an indigo iMac G3 and 3 iPods and other assorted stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:01:41 +0000 From: "Gilbert Hoffman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: English Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >BMW doesn't make wagons (although BMarketingW briefly made E39 >"SportWagons" >which are still designated "-iT", imagine that). But they do make wagens Rob. Gilbert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:50:38 -0500 From: "M540" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: English Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Good luck with this fight Marty, I think it's going to be an uphill struggle, at least in the US of A. I've lived in CA, TN, NY, CT, MA, NC, CO, WA, TX, and FL and have not in 30 years of daily life or higher education run into a person who pronounced forte as "fort". Miriam-Webster and American Heritage list both the "fort" and the "for-tay" pronunciations as correct, so I'm not implying you are incorrect, but you have a long row to hoe if you plan to educate the masses on this one. Although I don't see this as one of them, if the general public could keep "ask" from becoming "axe", I'd be willing to forgive a lot of other verbal transgressions. Then again, perhaps it's just dialect and that's part of what makes this country a fun place. Kevin marty wrote: Just to add another oft-misused word that gets my panties in a wad, so to speak. So many people say 'something is his for-tay' meaning strong point. Forte is pronounced 'fort' meaning strong point while 'for-tay' means loud. I live in the US not-so-deep south where we have some interesting pronunciations. Like two syllables for single syllable words like see-it (sit), shee-it for example. One I can't figure out how it could have originated is pronouncing ask as 'axe'. I'm as guilty as many of mangling the English language but this is a fun thread. marty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:54:40 -0800 From: Greg Cagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: English Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I've *always* heard it pronounced "fort-ay", but then I'm also a musician so that seems natural to me 8^). - Greg M540 wrote: > Good luck with this fight Marty, I think it's going to be an uphill > struggle, at least in the US of A. I've lived in CA, TN, NY, CT, MA, NC, > CO, WA, TX, and FL and have not in 30 years of daily life or higher > education run into a person who pronounced forte as "fort". Miriam-Webster > and American Heritage list both the "fort" and the "for-tay" pronunciations > as correct, so I'm not implying you are incorrect, but you have a long row > to hoe if you plan to educate the masses on this one. Although I don't see > this as one of them, if the general public could keep "ask" from becoming > "axe", I'd be willing to forgive a lot of other verbal transgressions. Then > again, perhaps it's just dialect and that's part of what makes this country > a fun place. > > Kevin > > > marty wrote: > > Just to add another oft-misused word that gets my panties in a wad, so to > speak. So many people say 'something is his for-tay' meaning strong point. > Forte is pronounced 'fort' meaning strong point while 'for-tay' > means loud. > > I live in the US not-so-deep south where we have some interesting > pronunciations. Like two syllables for single syllable words like see-it > (sit), shee-it for example. One I can't figure out how it could have > originated is pronouncing ask as 'axe'. > > I'm as guilty as many of mangling the English language but this is a fun > thread. > > marty > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > -- Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:59:32 -0500 From: Steve Nash <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Porsche 911 (was: English) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have found that to be common pronunciation from Europeans. The French side of my family always says BM. -Steve John Stoj wrote: > Rob wrote: > > Not as annoyed as I am by other-market folks referring to our favorite marque > as "BMs". > > > Yes, when did this start anyway? I've heard it recently. I think it sounds > worse that the single syllable Porsche because I can forgive someone for not > knowing how to pronounce a non-English word (I still have problems with > Bilstein), but why truncate BMW? > > - John S. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:59:26 -0800 From: Tom Kosmalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Wagons--oops--Touring Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Rob said: Hey Tom, see the "T" at the end of "325iT"? It's for Touring. BMW doesn't make wagons (although BMarketingW briefly made E39 "SportWagons" which are still designated "-iT", imagine that). Tom says: Well then that explains why they rounded off the back end of the thing and made it too small all in the name of style. If it isn't actually a wagon, there's no need to be overly concerned with utility! :-) (please note correct use of apostrophes in the above) Tom K. (wishing all wagons were 6' long in back when the seats were folded down) (and Rob, don't remind me that your wagon happens to be that long! :-)} ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:05:42 -0800 From: JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Scott & Charlotte Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: UUC Digest <[email protected]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: <E30> Handling with offset control arm bushing Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Conversely, (or is that inversely, or iirc from argumentation and debate class, contrapositively?) added caster becomes an additional _decrease in negative camber on the inside front wheel when turning, helping it, too, to keep its tread more squarely on the pavement. That goes along with the greater increase in the rate of toe out on the inside front wheel as steering input increases. Barry >> loves analyzing suspension geometry in his head for fun<< Scott & Charlotte Miller wrote: >The caster becomes additional negative camber on the outer wheel >during a turn. More negative camber during turn-in on the outer wheel >means that the tire is not transitioning (as much) off of the tire's >tread onto the sidewall as you turn the wheel. > >I guess we need to discuss whether we're talking about turn-in >quickness (how soon the car changes direction), or steering effort. >My steering effort might be a little higher with the bushings, but I >definitely don't feel like the turn-in is slower. Then again, this is >my E30 experience, YMMV, etc. > >Scott Miller >GGC BMW CCA > > > >>Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:20:50 -0500 >>From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: <[email protected]> >>Subject: Re: <E30> Handling with offset control arm bushing >>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >>I thought the offset CAB's gave you better high speed stability at >> >> >the > > >>expense of turn-in? >>Scott, are you suggesting the reverse? >> >>Stan >> >> > > > >Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > >__________________________________________________________________________ >In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > >UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > > -- The box said "Requires Windows 95, or better." So I bought a Macintosh. I live with fear, death, and evil...but I used to be able to turn it off and use a Mac. " Author Unknown Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product. -- Ferenc Mantfeld ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
