On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com>wrote:
> > > 2011/11/13 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> > >> >> On 12 Nov 2011, at 23:11, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> 2011/11/12 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> >> >>> >>> On 10 Nov 2011, at 14:51, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> 2011/11/10 benjayk <benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Spudboy100 wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > In a message dated 11/9/2011 7:27:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, >>>> > benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com writes: >>>> > >>>> > Probably the one that is most convincing is direct experience. Try >>>> > meditation (my favorite is just doing nothing while being aware not >>>> to >>>> > snooze or think or search for something to do,etc...), or, if you >>>> are a >>>> > bit >>>> > more daring and very cautious and well informed, psychdelic drugs (eg >>>> > Salvia, Mushrooms, LSD, DMT) or suspend your belief that you are >>>> just a >>>> > person for long enough (then the reality of unity tends to reveal >>>> itself >>>> > spotaneously). If you are in the right mindset and maybe a bit lucky >>>> you >>>> > can >>>> > experience states in which it is directly evident that there is >>>> > fundamentally no other, just this consciousness that you are. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I see, Benjamin. But unless one takes these visions as a solipsism, I >>>> > would >>>> > ask, what does this bring to the table? We humans are primates, and >>>> for >>>> > most of us primates, we are group animals. We need each other even >>>> though >>>> > we >>>> > irritate each other. >>>> What I am describing can be said to be a kind of solipsism; only I >>>> exist, >>>> but I being the consciousness that we all share, >>> >>> >>> I can't make a meaning of that... we do not share a "consciousness", not >>> in any definition of that term. >>> >>> >>> Let me try, assuming mechanism. Would you agree that in the case you are >>> cut and pasted in two different places, the resulting individuals share a >>> common memory-past? >>> >> >> They share a common past memories, but as soon as they are "duplicated", >> they do not share their consciousness, only past memories. >> >> >> "pure consciousness" is what is invariant through the change of >> memories. >> > > I'm not sure it is meaningful. I call that 1st person experience. > Consciousness has a subject. > By "a subject" do you mean "one subject" or "at least one subject"? If there are multiple subjects, who is the true owner? If there is a path from every conscious state to every other, then only time separates the conscious state I now experience from the conscious state you now experience. If all conscious states are reachable from by subject, then really there is only one subject who owns all conscious states. I think (but am not sure) this is the point Ben was making. Do you agree with this line of reasoning? Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
