2011/11/10 benjayk <benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com>
> Quentin Anciaux-2 wrote:
> > 2011/11/10 benjayk <benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com>
> >> Spudboy100 wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > In a message dated 11/9/2011 7:27:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> >> > benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com writes:
> >> >
> >> > Probably the one that is most convincing is direct experience. Try
> >> > meditation (my favorite is just doing nothing while being aware not
> >> > snooze or think or search for something to do,etc...), or, if you are
> >> a
> >> > bit
> >> > more daring and very cautious and well informed, psychdelic drugs (eg
> >> > Salvia, Mushrooms, LSD, DMT) or suspend your belief that you are just
> >> a
> >> > person for long enough (then the reality of unity tends to reveal
> >> itself
> >> > spotaneously). If you are in the right mindset and maybe a bit lucky
> >> you
> >> > can
> >> > experience states in which it is directly evident that there is
> >> > fundamentally no other, just this consciousness that you are.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I see, Benjamin. But unless one takes these visions as a solipsism, I
> >> > would
> >> > ask, what does this bring to the table? We humans are primates, and
> >> for
> >> > most of us primates, we are group animals. We need each other even
> >> though
> >> > we
> >> > irritate each other.
> >> What I am describing can be said to be a kind of solipsism; only I
> >> but I being the consciousness that we all share,
> > I can't make a meaning of that... we do not share a "consciousness", not
> > in
> > any definition of that term.
> I am not speaking about anything definable. Whatever can be defined is just
> a concept. You can't define your way to an understanding of consciousness,
> just like you can't define things to find out what ice cream tastes like.
> Trying to define the taste of ice cream is quite a futile endavour - the
> most you could give as a definition is a paraphrase and this by itself
> make it clear at all what it tastes like.
> That we share a consciousness (or rather, are that one consciousness), can
> only be recognized by the consciousness itself (that is, you), not inferred
> through some apparent relation of objects or persons (or some description
> definition). It is not hidden that there is just this consciousness now,
> there is nothing else to find. That's why no else can have another
> consciousness. It is nowhere to be found. Just your consciousness can be
> Why would you believe that I have another consciousness, when you can never
> access it, and I am even telling you that I don't have it.
Well fine, another zombi on the list then.
> There is no
> evidence for such an "other" to your consciousness.
The evidence is that I'm conscious, and I infer that "objects" that
interact with me the way I do, must be conscious too, ie: have qualia, have
a 1st person perspective. You say you don't... ok fine.
> If you say you can infer it, then I ask by what means? We can infer
> existence of other objects, but only because we already directly see that
> different objects can exist as content of consciousness. But we never ever
> witnessed something like a different consciousness
I witness behavior, and for such behavior to occur, qualia must occur.
> and so have nothing which
> we could base the claim that there is different consciousness on.
Solipsism is false.
> It is not even clear to me what other consciousness could even mean.
Someone not being you.
> you attempt to give an explanation?
> View this message in context:
> Sent from the Everything List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To post to this group, send email to email@example.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> For more options, visit this group at
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
For more options, visit this group at