On 17 Aug 2012, at 22:26, Roger wrote:
1) For wine-tasting -- What one must have is knowing that one knows
that the wine tastes good.
Such as one can prove that 1+1 =2 but one still has to accept
that as true.
Yes. In fact the proof that "1+1=2" will lead to the truth of "1+1=2",
for you, if you agree on the truth of the axioms you re using, and if
you believe that the rules of inference of your theory preserves truth.
2) mo·nad (mnd)
n.
1. Philosophy An indivisible, impenetrable unit of substance viewed
as the basic constituent element of physical reality in the
metaphysics of Leibniz.
Substance: A being that subsists by itself; a separate or distinct
thing.
OK, but what is a being? This notion of subtance beg the question.
Contingent truth: A truth whose opposite is possible
OK. In modal logic p is contingent will be written p & D~p. (or p & <>
~p (~ = NOT)).
Or p & ~Bp (p & ~[]p)
Entelechy: Something having in it "a certain perfection", a
completeness- a term taken from Aristotle's definition of the soul
Hmm... "certain perfection" is rather fuzzy.
Appetition: The internal principle which prepares for change;
rudimentary "desire".
Monad: The simple substance. Blind and passive by itself, but
obtains its perceptions
from God who also can animate it and cause it to feel.
I can make sense of this, perhaps in too much incompatible ways, in
comp. But OK.
Bruno
Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/17/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so
everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-08-16, 11:40:34
Subject: Re: ?
On 16 Aug 2012, at 16:21, Roger wrote:
BRUNO: I meant that some fixed hardware computer can emulate a
virtual self-modifying version of itself, so that your point is not
valid.
ROGER: What point ? And emulate in what sense ? Ie could a
computer ever be a good wine taster ?
As I said, it seems they are. the french have succeeded in making a
wine testing machine which according to experts in the field is
better than the average qualified wine tester.
Does such machine get the human qualia of drinking wine. i doubt so,
for this you need to have a longer human history, and higher
reflexive abilities. But there is no reason why machine could'n get
them in principle (obvious for a computationalist which bet that he
is himself a machine relatively to its more probable neighborhood).
BRUNO: If not you introduce a notion of living matter leading to an
infinite regression.
ROGER: Infinite regression of what ? Consciousness ? The monad
does away with that problem,
except of course it's just philosophy, not hardware.
It might be math, also. Could you explain what a monad is without
too much jargon?
BRUNO: It might have a solution, but it begs the question of comp/
non-comp, and you are just saying
(without arguing) that machines cannot think, and that souls are
substantial actual infinities.
ROGER: I think I said and believe what you said I said, but I don't
understand your main point
just above, even vaguely. At any rate, emulation is not the real
thing.
If the brain is a universal emulator, as it surely is at least, then
when a computer emulates an emulation done by the brain, at the
right level, emulation is the real thing.
Bruno
Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/16/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so
everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-08-15, 03:53:59
Subject: Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to
computersinAIordescribing life
On 14 Aug 2012, at 17:47, Roger wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
You say, "a non living computer can supported a living self-
developing life form"
Do you mean support instead of supported ? Or what do you mean ?
I mean "support". Sorry.
I meant that some fixed hardware computer can emulate a virtual
self-modifying version of itself, so that your point is not valid.
If not you introduce a notion of living matter leading to an
infinite regression. It might have a solution, but it beg the
question of comp/non-comp, and you are just saying (without
arguing) that machines cannot think, and that souls are substantial
actual infinities.
Bruno
Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/14/2012
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-08-12, 05:17:45
Subject: Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to
computers inAIordescribing life
On 11 Aug 2012, at 13:07, Roger wrote:
Hi Russell Standish
When I "gave in" to the AI point of view that computers can
posess intelligence,
I had overlooked the world of experience, which is not
quantitative. Only
living things can experience the world.
You are right. But a non living computer can supported a living
self-developing life form, unless you postulate that infinitely
complex substances are at play in the mind.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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