On 17 Aug 2012, at 22:26, Roger wrote:


1) For wine-tasting -- What one must have is knowing that one knows that the wine tastes good.

Such as one can prove that 1+1 =2 but one still has to accept that as true.

Yes. In fact the proof that "1+1=2" will lead to the truth of "1+1=2", for you, if you agree on the truth of the axioms you re using, and if you believe that the rules of inference of your theory preserves truth.





2) mo┬Ěnad  (mnd)
n.
1. Philosophy An indivisible, impenetrable unit of substance viewed as the basic constituent element of physical reality in the metaphysics of Leibniz.


Substance: A being that subsists by itself; a separate or distinct thing.

OK, but what is a being? This notion of subtance beg the question.




Contingent truth: A truth whose opposite is possible

OK. In modal logic p is contingent will be written p & D~p. (or p & <> ~p (~ = NOT)).
Or p & ~Bp (p & ~[]p)


Entelechy: Something having in it "a certain perfection", a completeness- a term taken from Aristotle's definition of the soul

Hmm... "certain perfection" is rather fuzzy.


Appetition: The internal principle which prepares for change; rudimentary "desire". Monad: The simple substance. Blind and passive by itself, but obtains its perceptions
from God who also can animate it and cause it to feel.

I can make sense of this, perhaps in too much incompatible ways, in comp. But OK.

Bruno





Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/17/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function."
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From: Bruno Marchal
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Time: 2012-08-16, 11:40:34
Subject: Re: ?


On 16 Aug 2012, at 16:21, Roger wrote:


BRUNO: I meant that some fixed hardware computer can emulate a virtual self-modifying version of itself, so that your point is not valid.

ROGER: What point ? And emulate in what sense ? Ie could a computer ever be a good wine taster ?

As I said, it seems they are. the french have succeeded in making a wine testing machine which according to experts in the field is better than the average qualified wine tester. Does such machine get the human qualia of drinking wine. i doubt so, for this you need to have a longer human history, and higher reflexive abilities. But there is no reason why machine could'n get them in principle (obvious for a computationalist which bet that he is himself a machine relatively to its more probable neighborhood).




BRUNO: If not you introduce a notion of living matter leading to an infinite regression.

ROGER: Infinite regression of what ? Consciousness ? The monad does away with that problem,
except of course it's just philosophy, not hardware.

It might be math, also. Could you explain what a monad is without too much jargon?



BRUNO: It might have a solution, but it begs the question of comp/ non-comp, and you are just saying (without arguing) that machines cannot think, and that souls are substantial actual infinities.

ROGER: I think I said and believe what you said I said, but I don't understand your main point just above, even vaguely. At any rate, emulation is not the real thing.

If the brain is a universal emulator, as it surely is at least, then when a computer emulates an emulation done by the brain, at the right level, emulation is the real thing.

Bruno







Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/16/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function."
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From: Bruno Marchal
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Time: 2012-08-15, 03:53:59
Subject: Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computersinAIordescribing life


On 14 Aug 2012, at 17:47, Roger wrote:

Hi Bruno Marchal

You say, "a non living computer can supported a living self- developing life form"

Do you mean support instead of supported ? Or what do you mean ?

I mean "support". Sorry.
I meant that some fixed hardware computer can emulate a virtual self-modifying version of itself, so that your point is not valid. If not you introduce a notion of living matter leading to an infinite regression. It might have a solution, but it beg the question of comp/non-comp, and you are just saying (without arguing) that machines cannot think, and that souls are substantial actual infinities.

Bruno





Roger , rclo...@verizon.net
8/14/2012
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Time: 2012-08-12, 05:17:45
Subject: Re: Definitions of intelligence possibly useful to computers inAIordescribing life


On 11 Aug 2012, at 13:07, Roger wrote:

Hi Russell Standish

When I "gave in" to the AI point of view that computers can posess intelligence, I had overlooked the world of experience, which is not quantitative. Only
living things can experience the world.


You are right. But a non living computer can supported a living self-developing life form, unless you postulate that infinitely complex substances are at play in the mind.

Bruno

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/




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