On 11/26/2013 11:13 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

2013/11/26 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net <mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>

    On 11/26/2013 10:03 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

        but personal purpose must be metaphisical. I mean transcendental, 
beyond our own.

    Beyond my what?...beyond my purpose.  That would be incoherent.

Yes. beyond your purpose.

        Except in the case of people in the edge, that are concerned with its 
own survival.

    Why is survival special?  People are often more concerned with other values 
    than survival.

Then they are not concerned with their own survival. These people are in constant danger of death.

Of course everybody is in danger of death, but I don't think it significantly greater because I have children I would sacrifice my life for.

        you can not find meaning working every morning for a society if your 
society has
        not a purpose,a plan itself for going along.

    Suppose you work for yourself instead of society.  Or as George Carlin put it, 
    I'm here for other people, what are those other people here for?"

You can work for yourself. and there may be a number of them. even there may be a number of special psychopaths that do an overall good to the society forced by some market forces. But a society of work--for-themselves can not survive. It is naturally corrupt. Therefore that is not in our nature. It may work for some, for it will not work for most of us.

A false dichotomy. Values don't have to be all-or-nothing. Some people enjoy helping others. Some people (usually artists) enjoy creating for themselves (which is why Nietzsche admired artists). But the shades in between are more common.

        The need for an ultimate, transcendental purpose is so strong that 
every people
        gets depressed (even to suicide, Boltzmann for example) by the idea of 
a the
        thermal end of the Universe, even knowing that this end is unimaginably 
ahead in
        time.  I find no better example of how purpose, long term planning for 
        and transcendence are related in the human mind with quite practical 

    Certainly caring about the future had evolutionary advantages for an 
    social species.  But people are no better at imagining an infinite 
immortality than
    an end of the world.  They are only comforted by keeping them fuzzy.


It is not necessary that everyone imagined or suffer for that. Just a few sensible and influential people makes the difference in moralizing or demoralizing the entire society. There is a specialization in which people short term oriented trust other more long term and so on until the "priests" of the times, who have the trust in looking the very long term path and tell what they see to the rest.

Whether they are sensible or not, they may be influential.


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