On 26 Nov 2013, at 20:13, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
2013/11/26 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
On 11/26/2013 10:03 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
but personal purpose must be metaphisical. I mean transcendental,
beyond our own.
Beyond my what?...beyond my purpose. That would be incoherent.
Yes. beyond your purpose.
Yes, we can conceive that.
Perhaps the whole universe is only a by product of some gods, or just
computers, attempting to solve a diophantine equation.
Or as I said, a devil opportunity for sending creature to hell, ...or
an attempt by our far away descendants to emulate their past to see
what did gone wrong in some period, etc.
If the purpose is above us, there might be an infinity ladder of
purposes, and a lot can be conflicting, ...
With comp, the UD Argument shows that it is something like that below
our substitution level ...
We have partial control above, and the purpose of acting might be
private or non communicable.
Comp is consistent with the idea that the universal purpose consists
in infinite self-contemplation together with harm reduction, given
that it is a creative process which emulation is described by the
consequence of Robinson arithmetic, and that we can already know
glimpses of extatic atemporal state (by diverse brain self-
perturbation technics, like meditation, sleep deprivation, food
deprivation, oxygen deprivation, or less dangerously the (illegal)
Above a treshold of provability (Löbianity) you develop a taste for
the surprises, and then you are happy, as arithmetic contains
transfinite ladders of "surprises" everywhere, and in between vast
lands to explore ..., and the purpose might be to recognize ourself
again, and again.
With comp there can be a continuum of realities between hell and
heaven, and Truth is no guaranty of heaven, nor local lies a guaranty
to hell, as it will depend on the contexts possible, but there is a
notion of moral peace with oneself possible. It might be part of some
intrinsic arithmetical internal purpose.
We just don't know, as machine or number theology is still in its
infancy (to say the least). But we can formulate theories and
questions the machines.
So, in such technically precise possible sense, such questions make
Except in the case of people in the edge, that are concerned with
its own survival.
Why is survival special? People are often more concerned with other
values more than survival.
Then they are not concerned with their own survival. These people
are in constant danger of death.
Yes. Like terrorists, soldiers, many heros, who will sacrifice their
life for an idea (fanatics) or for saving the life of others (hero).
If we feel something like a purpose above us, we put our life and
others in danger, even if it is the purpose of concrete safety of
those we care about.
Likewise, if we refuse to put our life in danger, we might put in
peril some value we find being more important than us, like freedom or
democracy, or "our" existence, for example.
you can not find meaning working every morning for a society if your
society has not a purpose,a plan itself for going along.
Suppose you work for yourself instead of society. Or as George
Carlin put it, "If I'm here for other people, what are those other
people here for?"
You can work for yourself. and there may be a number of them. even
there may be a number of special psychopaths that do an overall good
to the society forced by some market forces. But a society of work--
for-themselves can not survive. It is naturally corrupt. Therefore
that is not in our nature. It may work for some, for it will not
work for most of us.
Hmm.... Yes, there is a "natural corruption". The same with planes.
But with planes there are maintenance systems, and with democracies,
despite the good ideas existed already, we have seen that the adding
of some "axiom" can corrupt and prevent the use of those old good
idea, and so we must rethink its maintenance system.
I have only one explanation for prohibition: gangsterism. Natural
corruption is not a fatality, we must just be aware of the disease,
and cure it. No need of violence, witnessing (and patience) and asking
question is enough.
Like, "where does the idea that hemp should be illegal come from?"
Like "how did building seven felt?"
It seems to me that the shadow of the answer to the common roots of
those happenings appears already in this video (1976) on JFK
The need for an ultimate, transcendental purpose is so strong that
every people gets depressed (even to suicide, Boltzmann for example)
by the idea of a the thermal end of the Universe, even knowing that
this end is unimaginably ahead in time. I find no better example of
how purpose, long term planning for survival and transcendence are
related in the human mind with quite practical consequences.
Certainly caring about the future had evolutionary advantages for an
intelligent, social species. But people are no better at imagining
an infinite immortality than an end of the world. They are only
comforted by keeping them fuzzy.
It is not necessary that everyone imagined or suffer for that. Just
a few sensible and influential people makes the difference in
moralizing or demoralizing the entire society.
Keep in mind that "theology" is still a taboo domain. That is natural.
It is a hot subject. The scientific attitude is hard to maintain
because we are naturally attempted to wishful (or fearful) thinking.
Then it is easily exploited by others, as a mean of control and money
(and power) stealing.
Then with comp we get that Truth is in the head of all universal
machines, and if the people are too much lazy to look in their head,
they can interview the machines. We are at the beginning so that
involves some math (and thus pencil and paper). But that is very
There is a specialization in which people short term oriented trust
other more long term and so on until the "priests" of the times, who
have the trust in looking the very long term path and tell what they
see to the rest.
OK. When they do their job.
Today some of them molest children, or let that happen and perpetuated
due to what seem a quite faithless fear of the scandal.
They could have reacted more seriously, by a big decision, like the
right to marry for the priests, or to get some help. They act like
mafiosi. The clergy is no exception. Many institutions aggravate their
case by hiding scandal.
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