On 26 Nov 2013, at 22:14, LizR wrote:
On 27 November 2013 06:39, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
But we don't know that. There is no logical reason there shouldn't
be a purpose to life, universes and consciousness.
No logical reason, but there's no obvious sign that there is one.
I am not sure. But of course "sign" are very subjective. The very
possibility of contemplation seems to me to be a sign of some
universal purpose.
The outer god might no have a purpose (it I just truth), but the inner
god, who is really the outer God, but amnesic and incognito, can have
a universal purpose, notably to remind "who" he/she/it is.
That helps to enjoy things for themselves, instead of faking enjoyment
to impress the others or be member of a club. It helps to relatoivize
our identity, making us able to love and recognize different creature
(but humanity contains the opposite, like humans not recognizing other
humans).
I am an optimist. If humans does not develop science (which is
99,9998% spiritual), then the spiders will.
I do think there is a universal purpose. But I am not that sure if the
humans will or not missed it.
And there might be deep reason, yet arithmetical reasons, why we
can live happy lives.
Like they might be also reasons that it might not yet be as simple
as some would like to thought.
In my opinion "purpose" implies a goal, which implies that one
outcome has been selected from a number of possibilities.
Not if the purpose/goal consists in exploring all possibilities.
This implies a conscious choice was involved,
Why? It could be an instinct, or the result of the universal
persistent state of non satisfaction of the universal machine.
Woody Allen get a nice remark on life, said by an elderly woman in
some miserable hospice. She talked about the her quite small portion
soup, and said that life is like that soup, it taste bad, and there is
not enough.
The universal purpose might be harm reduction and augmentation of
satisfaction in the hide-and-seek play that God plays with Itself.
which is why I said something like God would be required to give the
universe a purpose.
Of course. May be the purpose of the universe has nothing to do with
our own purpose, like if the universe was just a lamp that God created
to find the key of the paradise (because he lost them). But you see I
doubt this. I am open for more simple universal purpose, which
develops together with the multi-dialog between the universal machines/
numbers.
Without that element of choice you can't have a goal / aim /
purpose, and you "just" have inevitability, the inexorable results
of the laws of physics (which aren't purposeful in any meaningful
sense, as far as I know).
To simplify Plotinus, the outer God (the ONE) is unstable. By a sort
of excess of love it realizes all the ideas, and this makes the ONE
becoming very multiple. It is the shift between the TRUTH "point of
view" (from no-where, the 0th person point of view) into what actually
can the universal number know about themselves. That's the NOUS of
Plotinus, I suggest, and then the Soul, Plotinus third hypostases (can
be obtained by the Theaetetus idea), as the conjunct of truth and the
actual assertion/representation by the machine.
I would say that any "purpose" that exists within arithmetic would
be of the "laws of physics" kind,
Yes. But in comp the laws of physics are not entirely computable, even
if still described by an arithmetical relations. Most arithmetical
relations are not computable, and the FPI explains without magic why
we are confronted with some of those non computable relations.
That makes, from the scientific points of view, the question of
"transcendent purpose" just very difficult.
it would be a logical inevitability, rather than something
consciously selected.
I think it can be both. For a reason akin to my feeling that free-will
makes sense in deterministic context, even without FPI and "1p"
determinacy.
(Perhaps...)
Difficult subject, no doubt about that :)
Bruno
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
