Hi Richard, On 06 Jan 2014, at 18:31, Richard Ruquist wrote:

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Bruno,Are you saying that 3p determinacy and locality are sufficient tosatisfy Bell's theorem?

`You need physical realism. Something like Einstein principle of`

`reality (if without perturbing a system, I can predict with certainty`

`an outcome, then there is an element of reality to it).`

`The MW, that is pure QM without collapse, satisfies those three`

`conditions. The non-locality is an illusion coming from our`

`abstraction from the existence of the superposed states in which we`

`are in.`

`The same with comp, except that the wave itself becomes a similar`

`"illusion" capable of being explained by arithmetic only.`

Bruno

RichardOn Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>wrote:On 06 Jan 2014, at 16:40, John Clark wrote:On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>wrote:>>> Bell's theorem holds only under a certain set of assumptions, >> True. As I've said many times Bell made exactly 3 assumptions: 1) High School algebra and trigonometry works. 2) Things are local. 3) Things are realistic.If those 3 assumptions are valid then Bell's inequality canNEVER be violated.> Yes, that is correct. You showed this correctly indeed.>> But from experiment we know that Bell's inequality IS violated.> In our branch. Not in the multiverse.We do not know for a fact that the multiverse even exists, and evenif it does those other universes are about as non-local as you canget.The point is logical and does not depend on the existence of amultiverse. The point is that Bell's inequality violation is seen inone branch, and that it entails physical non locality only if thatbranch is unique.All universes or branches of the multiverse are local. You can evendefine them by step of events close for interactions.The only branch we know to exist for sure is our local universe,and in our local universe Bell's inequality is violated.Yes, and a multiverse restores 3p determinacy and locality. That'sthe point.And even if those other universes are real Bell's inequality isviolated there too, provided of course that High School algebra andtrigonometry still works.Yes, and so, for those inhabitants who believe in determinacy andlocality, they are forced to assume the presence of the otherbranches, like ours.> MW restores 3p determinacy, and it restores 3p localityI should have asked this long ago but who exactly is this thirdperson?Just read the original papers.- In comp, anyone locally not duplicated, and observing aduplication of someone else, can play the needed role asked fordefining a 3p view.- In Everett QM, the 3p is an external view of the solution of theSWE, and the 1-views are the record of the observers obeying to thatwave.In both case, the 1p are given by the memory records of duplicatedor superposed states, and the 3p is the view from those who observethe "whole" system.Can you give me his phone number or at least his Email address?So funny ... BrunoJohn K Clark --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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