On 08 Jan 2014, at 18:47, John Clark wrote:

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On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>wrote:>>> Bell derived his inequality assuming QM with collapse>> No he did not, Bell makes no such assumption or interpretation,in fact not one word about Quantum Mechanics is needed in hisentire derivation. None zero zilch goose egg. And that is why evenif Quantum Mechanics turns out to be wrong and is succeeded with anewer and better theory it would still be true that if things arerealistic and local then Bell's inequality can NEVER BE VIOLATED,provided that high school algebra and trigonometry are valid.> Yes, you are correct on this. Thank you. > But Bell shows also that QM-*with*-collapse violates the inequality. I don't know what you mean by that

`Well, read Bell. It shows how QM violates his inequality. He was`

`hoping nature would not follow QM on this. Of course he assumes QM = QM`

`+collapse, as most often people did and sometime still do.`

and I thought you were a fan of MWI but here you seem to be arguingagainst it because in Many Worlds the wave function does NOT collapse

Indeed.

but Bell's inequality IS violated.

`Experimentally, in our branche(s). And provably so by QM, in all quasi-`

`classical branches.`

`But when you look at the many branches, at once, you can see that this`

`inequality violation does not involve the slightest spooky action at a`

`distance. It only the sharing of some partitioning of the multiverse.`

`It is first person plural reality.`

`That is rather clear with the quantum teleportation, where Bob still`

`need classical information, which tell him in which partition he`

`belongs, so that he can transformed the teleportation. And this does`

`not depends of the base used in the "outer picture".`

`I tend to not believe in spooky actions at a distance, so, to me, the`

`Bell's inequality experimental violation is a quite strong evidence`

`for MW, that is QM-without collapse.`

Bruno

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