On 1/16/2014 7:09 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Brent,

Whoa, back up a little. This is the argument that proves every INDIVIDUAL observer has his OWN present moment time. You are trying to extend it to a cosmic universal time which this argument doesn't address. That's the second argument you referenced.

This argument demonstrates that for every INDIVIDUAL observer SR requires that since he continually moves at c through spactime, that he MUST be at one and only one point in time (and of course in space as well), and thus there is a privileged present moment in which every observer exists,

That's all ok up to "privileged". The only thing "privileging" the time and location is the observer being at that event. So it is relative to the observer - hence the name "relativity theory".

and since he is continually moving through time at c he will experience an arrow of time in the direction of his movement.

I think that's a tautology. Direction of movement assumes a direction of time.


Once that is agreed we can go on to the 2nd argument to prove that these are universal across all observers....

So can we agree on that?

I don't know what "that" refers to, nor what "these" are that are universal. That all observers trace out world lines?...sure.

Brent


Edgar


On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 9:19:24 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

    On 1/15/2014 4:38 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:

        Brent,

        Both DO follow if you understand the argument. Why do you think they 
don't follow?


    Well the first one is true, if you take time to mean a global coordinate 
time.  But
    then it's just saying every event can be labelled with a time coordinate.  
All that
    takes is that the label be monotonic and continuous along each world line.  
It'
    saying that 'everything can get a time label'.  But it doesn't say anything 
about
    how the label on one worldline relates to labels on a different world line.

    The SR requirement that the speed of light be the same in all inertial 
frames then
    implies that the labeling along one line *cannot* be uniquely extended to 
other
    lines, but must vary according to their relative velocity.

    Brent


        Edgar

        On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 7:27:07 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:

            On 1/15/2014 4:02 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:

                Brent,

                Bravo! Someone actually registered some of my arguments, though 
I would
                state them slightly differently.

                The argument in question, that everyone except Brent seems to 
have
                missed, is simple.

                SR requires that everything moves at the speed of light through
                spacetime. This is NOT just "a useful myth", it's a very 
important
                fundamental principle of reality (I call it the STc Principle).


            It's a commonplace in relativity texts.


                This is true of all motions in all frames. It's a universal 
absolute
                principle.
                Now the fact that everything continually moves at the speed of 
light
                through spacetime absolutely requires that everything actually 
moves and
                continually moves through just TIME at the speed of light in one
                direction in their own frame. This movement requires there to 
be an
                arrow of time,


            Not exactly.  It requires that there be a time-axis, but it doesn't 
say
            anything about which way the arrow points.  It only implies that 
bodies
            cannot move spacelike (because when they get up to c they've used 
all their
            speed to move through space and none to move through time).

                and this principle is the source of the arrow of time and gives 
the
                arrow of time a firm physical basis.

                Second, because everything is always moving through time at the 
speed of
                light everything MUST be at one and only one location in time.


            That doesn't follow.

                That present location in time is the present moment, it's a 
unique
                privileged moment in time.


            That doesn't follow.

            Brent


                (This argument demonstrates only there must be a present moment 
for
                every observer. The other argument Brent references is 
necessary to
                demonstrate that present moment is universal and common to all
                observers.) Bravo again Brent, for

    ...

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