On 19 Jan 2014, at 22:42, meekerdb wrote:

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On 1/19/2014 4:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 18 Jan 2014, at 05:27, LizR wrote:On 18 January 2014 17:16, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: On 1/17/2014 5:40 PM, LizR wrote:But apparently the brain has a lot to do with those computationsin Platonia, c.f. anesthetic. Notice that I'm not a disciple ofPlatonia.Me neither, I am agnostic - but within comp it is assumed, sowhile discussing comp we have to assume it (unless we'rerejecting comp on that basis). But I can see that Platonia makessense in that 17 does seem to be prime idependently of you and meand everyone else, which is (I'm told) enough for the wholeshebang to come into some sort of existence.I don't think you have to buy the equivalence between (17 isprime) is true and (17 is prime) exists. In fact Bruno alwayssays you only have to believe the first for his argument tosucceed. But then he slips in the UD and it seems that everytruth of arithmetic implies and existence. I think this is thesame problem as step 8. If everything has to be simulated, thenthere's no difference between simulated and real. If I'm "really"existing in an infinity of world/simulations that are *just likethis one up to now* - then they ARE this one (c.f. Leibniz).Well, I haven't managed to get my head around step 8, at least,not if step 8 is the MGA? (Or maybe I did, if it isn't....)May be there is a simpler argument than step 8 (MGA). It is thefact that you need magical (non Turing emulable) matter for amachine being able to distinguish "real matter" (what could bethat?) from its an arithmetical emulation.Not if the machine is made of "real matter". I think a machine madeof arithmetic

`There is no machine made of arithmetic. This has no meaning. There are`

`number relations, some, by comp, correspond to "conscious computation"`

`to be short), and "real matter" is only the sharable part of the`

`machine qualia.`

can only count numbers as "real matter".

`On the contrary. The LĂ¶bian numbers can think like you and me, do the`

`UDA reasoning, and understand that matter is above the numbers, like`

`their own consciousness.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.