# Re: Edge.org: 2014 : WHAT SCIENTIFIC IDEA IS READY FOR RETIREMENT? The Computational Metaphor

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On 19 Jan 2014, at 22:42, meekerdb wrote:```
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```On 1/19/2014 4:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
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On 18 Jan 2014, at 05:27, LizR wrote:

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```On 18 January 2014 17:16, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2014 5:40 PM, LizR wrote:
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But apparently the brain has a lot to do with those computations in Platonia, c.f. anesthetic. Notice that I'm not a disciple of Platonia.
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Me neither, I am agnostic - but within comp it is assumed, so while discussing comp we have to assume it (unless we're rejecting comp on that basis). But I can see that Platonia makes sense in that 17 does seem to be prime idependently of you and me and everyone else, which is (I'm told) enough for the whole shebang to come into some sort of existence.
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I don't think you have to buy the equivalence between (17 is prime) is true and (17 is prime) exists. In fact Bruno always says you only have to believe the first for his argument to succeed. But then he slips in the UD and it seems that every truth of arithmetic implies and existence. I think this is the same problem as step 8. If everything has to be simulated, then there's no difference between simulated and real. If I'm "really" existing in an infinity of world/simulations that are *just like this one up to now* - then they ARE this one (c.f. Leibniz).
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Well, I haven't managed to get my head around step 8, at least, not if step 8 is the MGA? (Or maybe I did, if it isn't....)
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May be there is a simpler argument than step 8 (MGA). It is the fact that you need magical (non Turing emulable) matter for a machine being able to distinguish "real matter" (what could be that?) from its an arithmetical emulation.
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Not if the machine is made of "real matter". I think a machine made of arithmetic
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There is no machine made of arithmetic. This has no meaning. There are number relations, some, by comp, correspond to "conscious computation" to be short), and "real matter" is only the sharable part of the machine qualia.
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```can only count numbers as "real matter".
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On the contrary. The LĂ¶bian numbers can think like you and me, do the UDA reasoning, and understand that matter is above the numbers, like their own consciousness.
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Bruno

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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