I will send a longer comment. here are just some precision.
On 22 Jul 2014, at 11:28, Kim Jones wrote:
On 20 Jul 2014, at 10:54 pm, Kim Jones, then Bruno Marchal <[email protected]
> wrote:
I don't think, along with Russell Standish, that ants are
conscious, for example - but individuals may share in a group
'self'. Selfhood is independent of minds or of contents of minds
or the precision or mental acuity (perception) of minds. It
appears to be the kind of knowledge of something that cannot be
demonstrated in any 3p way.
I think that ants are conscious, but probably not self-conscious.
That comes with the spider, cuttlefishes, ... perhaps.
Bruno
So like me you observe there are two "flavours" of consciousness?
1. The non self-aware
2. The self-aware
yes. I usually call them
1. The conscious
2. The self-conscious
In most context aware and conscious are equivalent to me. Both 1 and
2 implies a self, but the self-conscious has more cognities abilities.
It is also the difference between RA and PA. Self-conscious
corrrespond to the Löbian machine.
It appears that not noticing that you have a self does not mean you
don't have one.
Agreed. Amoeba have 3-self, and 1-self, but absolutely no conception
of it, as far as I know.
This is good news for all living things. You have a self. You may
not have noticed it but you have one.
Hmm.... My coffee machine has a self also, but a priori no conception
at all of it too.
This
Is the following true:
Self-awareness = self-consciousness (?)
OK. Both involves the 1p. But the []p gives a notion of 3p self-
awareness, plausibly not conscious, like a machine which can assert
simple (correct) belief about itself in the 3p sense, like an
altimeter in a plane.
The latter sounds more like Freud's Superego to me, another ego that
confronts the ego within the same psyche. I'm sure this demonstrates
that consciousness is not unitary.
Not sure what you mean. What do you mean by consciousness is not
unitary? I might agree or not according to different possible meanings
here.
Bruno
K
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