On 23 Jul 2014, at 07:18, Kim Jones wrote:
On 23 Jul 2014, at 4:38 am, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
Is the following true:
Self-awareness = self-consciousness (?)
OK. Both involves the 1p. But the []p gives a notion of 3p self-
awareness, plausibly not conscious, like a machine which can assert
simple (correct) belief about itself in the 3p sense, like an
altimeter in a plane.
The latter sounds more like Freud's Superego to me, another ego
that confronts the ego within the same psyche. I'm sure this
demonstrates that consciousness is not unitary.
Not sure what you mean. What do you mean by consciousness is not
unitary? I might agree or not according to different possible
meanings here.
Bruno
Bad word choice. I should perhaps say consciousness may sometimes
behave inconsistently, which a machine should not do, yes?
More or less. of course strictly speaking consciousness does not
behave a priori, but is a reality attributed by a person about itself,
making a person knowing things, and believing things, hoping,
observing, etc.
Of course, correct machine will not behave inconsistently. But non
correct machine can behave in less and less insane way, like []f, []
[]f, [][][]f, ....
I mean, why would a machine not want to behave consistently?
They might want that indeed, but that's not simple, especially that
they want make small theories for many things, including big things
like everything, which leads quickly to inconsistency and madness.
Yet, psychologists can talk to 'parts of the personality' ie consult
a certain locus of self in the person while shutting out others
(hypnotherapy etc.) The superego is supposed to be something 'in' or
'about' consciousness that often applies a brake to what the
generalised conscious self would like to happen. You might offer to
pay for our dinner together but I step in and do it (the superego in
this case being what the wife said to me before I left home).
:)
This seems to show that the locus of the self can be scattered as it
were amongst other selves - as if we do occasionally become 'someone
else' or "change our mind" (se changer d'esprit)
Yes. The first person has no 3p description, somehow it self-diffract
by self-description, you give a name to it (like when saying yes to
the doctor), you get the infinitely many names in arithmetic, it is a
complex fractal clouds of relative possibilities, and at some point,
it is your decision.
There are 'organs of the mind', as it were.
OK. Consciousness is just not related to them directly, but only
indirectly through a competition of many universal machine/number in
arithmetic, and you are not the organ of mind, you are the owner of
your body and organ, even of your mind. Mind is still 3p.
Consciousness and knowledge are 1p.
Bruno
Kim
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