On 10 Jul 2015, at 20:21, John Clark wrote:
On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> He, he and he! The use of ambiguous personal pronouns
comes so easily that Bruno doesn't even seem to realize that Bruno
is using them; it's like breathing, thought is required for
neither activity.
> The "he" is explained in the [...]. This proves that you work
only by disingenuous rethorical tricks or that you don't read the
post(s).
The complete quote is:
That is indeed exactly why that guy in Helsinki was able to
predict that wherever he will survive he will feel unique, in a
unique specific city, and a city that he could not have predicted in
advance. With "he" denoting the guys remembering having been the
Helsinki guy. Both of them congratulate themselves for having
written in the diary, when in Helsinki: P(coffee) = 1, P(unique-
city) = 1, P(W v M) = 1, and P(W & M) = 0, as the diary contains the
personal, particular, experience, which mention only *one* city, in
both diaries, either M, or W.
Do you understand now why both "he" congratulate
themselves when in Helsinki the guy predicted P(one city) = 1, P(W v
M) = 1?
No I do NOT understand and neither do you. If you did understand
you'd have shown I was wrong long ago by simply stop using "he" in
your thought experiment;
I did, but it changes nothing, as there is no problem with the
pronouns when you understand and apply the 1p and 3p distinction.
but that is impossible because "he" is of vital importance, "he" is
needed to cover up the logical blunders in the "proof".
All right, which one. You mention it often but never show it.
You've made use of the fact that in everyday life most don't give
much thought to personal pronouns, they don't need to because the
referent is obvious,
And reman obvious all along the duplication, if you take into account
the distinction made.
but people duplicating machines have not been invented yet
Of course they have been invented, and with computationalisme we have
everything we need to make the prediction asked.
and that is not in everyday life, and so bad habits need to be
broken and attention must be payed.
> Do you agree that P(experiencing-coffee) = 1? (you said ago
"yes, I guess")
As I said , if everything in the universe gets coffee then
"he" will get coffee too regardless of what that personal pronoun
means.
And why if everything is in front of one city, in one experience,
would that not apply?
And I said "I guess" because it's hard to get excited over such a
vapid thought experiment
Nice, so you do agree.
> Do you agree that P(experiencing-coffee) = 1 implies
P(experiencing-a-unique-city) = 1?
I don't know if I agree or not because this time everything in the
universe will NOT be experiencing-a-unique-city.
Who will *experience* two-cities?
The prediction is supposed to be about what "he" will see but this
time it does matter what "he" means. Before I can give a answer
I need to understand the question.
If "he" means The Helsinki Man then the probability "he" will
experience one and only one city is zero, the probability "he" will
experience both cities is 1.
Nobody will ever experience both cities. Nobody. You ill be in both
city, for an outsider point of view (the 3-1 view), and you will se
only one city (the 1-view).
And the "h" as defined completely in the quote, and we have agreed on
its meaning, so I supect ypur remain stuck in your habit of rhetorical
thinking.
If "he" means The Moscow Man then the probability "he" will
experience one and only one city is 1, the probability "he" will
experience both cities is zero.
He means the guy who has been in Helsinki and has the corresponding
memory, so the M man, and the W man are both the Helsinki man, but of
course they are now different person and both the W and the M man see
only once city.
If "he" means Bruno Marchal then the probability "he" will
experience one and only one city is zero, the probability "he" will
experience both cities is 1.
If "he" means The Washington Man then the probability "he" will
experience one and only one city is 1, the probability "he" will
experience both cities is zero.
See above.
So tell me what "he" means and I'll give you a prediction. Not that
predictions, good bad or mediocre, have anything to do with
consciousness or the feeling of unique personal identity.
Read the quote, or any post I send lately, or the sane04 paper, or the
two more recent papers, or the thesis.
Sorry, but I have still not an atom of clue of what you don't
understand. You ask question in post where the question have been
answered and on what we have already agreed.
Bruno
John K Clark
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