On 09 Jul 2015, at 17:56, John Clark wrote:
On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just answer this. I recall that W means "I feel to be in W",
and "I feel to be in M", with the "I" being the first person I,
To hell with "THE"! If a person has been duplicated then there
is no more "the",
In philosophy, this is called an indexical. In computer science, it is
defined with the "Dx = F(xx)" diagonal technic and intensional
variants. But here, when I say that "I" is "the" first person I, I use
it for the notion, not for the person. It means *the* notion that we
have defined using the diary etc.
it's now "a" because that's what "duplicated" means.
And "a" Helsinki Man today is anyone or anything that remembers
being "the" Helsinki Man before the duplication.
And yes yes I know, "I confuse the 1p and the 3p"; so cure my
confusion and run through the entire duplicating procedure from
start to finish strictly from "*the*" first person perspective
without using ambiguous personal pronouns and using "the" and "a"
correctly. I'm betting you can't do it.
> I recall that you have agreed that the first person
experiences W and M are incompatible and belongs to separate streams
of consciousness/first person experiences.
Yes, obviously they are incompatible with each other, but neither
is incompatible with the Helsinki Man if "The Helsinki Man" means
something that remembers being a man in Helsinki before the
duplication occurred. And if it doesn't mean that then what does it
mean?
It means that, no problem. We have agreed a million times on this.
That is indeed exactly why that guy in Helsinki was able to predict
that wherever he will survive he will feel unique, in a unique
specific city, and a city that he could not have predicted in advance.
With "he" denoting the guys remembering having been the Helsinki guy.
Both of them congratulate themselves for having written in the diary,
when in Helsinki: P(coffee) = 1, P(unique-city) = 1, P(W v M) = 1, and
P(W & M) = 0, as the diary contains the personal, particular,
experience, which mention only *one* city, in both diaries, either M,
or W.
You don't succeed to justify why you don't move on step 4. You only
repeat, like a bot, the same rhetorical tricks.
You failed to explain anybody why P(coffee) = 1 (on which you agreed,
or at least guessed) does not entail P(unique-city) = 1.
You go out of your body at the duplication time, and never
reintegrate, yes, only one body, indexically, after. You don't put
yourself in the shoes of any of the continuers. But you need to do
that, for each one, which is not that hard when the case is just one,
or a few iteration of, duplication(s). Each one feel unique,
verifying everywhere that P(unique-city) = 1 was correct.
Nobody understands your point, and the ad hominem tone adds to the
idea that your agenda is not really related to the topic of the list.
Unless you change your tone and can tell me gently and politely, as
clearly as possible, what is it that you do not understand in what I
have just explained above, I will no more do much effort. I guess this
thread becomes pretty boring for the participants. You always mock the
1p/3p distinction and then by abstracting yourself from it, you either
see determinacy or ambiguity, where comp and the notion of identity on
which we have agreed a million times entails what I say above, which
is enough to proceed.
Bruno
John K Clark
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