Although I am not a COMMITTER I feel I need to speak up here, having been one of the more recent recipients of Glen's "from-the-hip" comments. I was a bit shocked and dismayed at the lack of diplomacy in Glen's apparent attack on Andreas' original post[*] (included below for completeness).

(BTW Glen, I believe while Peter may've quoted Andreas' post in his response, Peter correctly associated the primary thought process to you. It was your "from-the-hip" comment that (I believe) brought the issue of respect to members of our community to the fore. Please know Glen, I appreciate your passion for FOP, and your coding contributions (every day!). I would absolutely not want to see you go away. If you want to continue your occasional lack of diplomacy to others in your posts, I'll continue to take your posts with a grain of salt. However, it is imperative that FOP retains your talents. We can't afford to lose another good coder like yourself.)

That said, it is clear there is a gray line with regard to how to deal with posts and possible PATCHs of code from competing products, while maintaining the integrity of FOP. However, I don't believe that gray line means we must refuse valuable mailing list posts from our community (of which RenderX, AntennaHouse, xmlroff, etc. are all equal members).

I would posit that the *issue* of how to deal with PATCH contributions should be discussed so that a plan/protocol can be achieved. This needs to occur at least at the "project" (FOP) level (possibly ending with a VOTE), but should really be done at the Apache Foundation level, since other Apache projects are apparently faced with the same issues.

Another possibly separate issue (?), is whether or not we can accept contributions _to the fop-dev mailing list_ to which I would certainly respond/vote an emphatic YES (we should accept posts from anyone willing to post and do so graciously).

It is my hope that Nikolai (and other esteemed members of our community such as G. Ken Holman) read the fop-dev & fop-user mailing lists and respond at will. But we should come up with a plan we can all refer to so there is no question.


Web Maestro Clay


On Feb 6, 2004, at 5:04 AM, Glen Mazza wrote:

Both of the remarks that Nikolai quoted [1] in leaving
the list came from Andreas [2], not from me [3].  I
was only stating the obvious in my warnings not to use
their code.

I don't appreciate you trying--for those who haven't
been following the thread--to attribute Andreas'
quotes to me.





--- "Peter B. West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

If you have watched us for a while, you will realise that Glen tends to shoot from the hip, and expresses himself forcefully. (I have done the same on occasion.) More than one of the regulars here has been stung by Glen's comments, but we understand that that is Glen's manner. We value his contributions greatly, and shrug off the more over-the-top expressions of opinion because we are used to the way he says things.

I hope you can bring yourself to do the same.

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