There should be good populations of T. godefroyi in Western Ghats, but some how being overlooked. I'm attaching an article link, where T. godefroyi is reported from Telangana state with photographs. Additions to the Flora of Telangana state of India, with notes on the phytogeographical importance - Gollamandala - 2022 - Feddes Repertorium - Wiley Online Library <https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/fedr.202100028>
On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:05:09 PM UTC+5:30 Tabish wrote: > Let me summarize my view here: > > - Saldanha (1966) named *Torenia lindernioides* which, according to > his paper, is endemic to the Western Ghats, and differs from *Torenia > crustacea* in having a prominently winged calyx. > - Prasad, Roy, Sunojkumar (2017) re-established *Torenia godefroyi,* > and put *Torenia lindernioides* as its synonym. *Torenia godefroyi* > was separated from *Torenia crustacea* in having a prominently winged > calyx, among other characters. *Torenia godefroyi *was earlier known > only from Indo-China region (SE Asia). So, according to this paper, the > revised distribution of *Torenia godefroyi* is Indo-China region and > Western Ghats. > - So my question is, where is this *Torenia godefroyi* from Western > Ghats with prominently winged calyx? Don't we have any image of it? Or are > we misidentifying some of its images as > *Torenia crustacea? * > > I think some thinking is required on it, instead of this rapid > discussion. > Tabish > ------------------------------------------- > <http://www.flowersofindia.net>www.flowersofindia.net > The waterhole of flower lovers > > > On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 8:09 PM J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi, Dinesh ji, >> As all has now been identified as Lindernia crustacea >> <https://efloraofindia.com/2011/03/12/lindernia-crustacea/>, it has to >> be the same i.e. with the winged calyx. >> >> On Sat, 8 Oct 2022 at 19:56, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Garg ji, when I go through photographs posted in SK 3258 24 December >>> 2021 <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/xoQAkxPsgTg> that >>> show calyx, they do not seem to me as "distinctly winged" or ribbed. They >>> look to me rather as separated sepals. That is how I perceive. >>> Regards. >>> Dinesh >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 7:23 PM J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Dinesh ji, >>>> How do you say "All of the other observations at eFI related to >>>> Lindernia crustacea do not have distinctly winged calyx" ? >>>> I feel otherwise that most of the observations at eFI related to >>>> Lindernia crustacea also have distinctly winged calyx. >>>> Pl. see one e.g. SK 3258 24 December 2021 >>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/xoQAkxPsgTg> >>>> >>>> On Sat, 8 Oct 2022 at 19:19, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Tabish, I agree with you on the distinctly winged calyx, and >>>>> therefore rushed to upload my observation in iNaturalist. >>>>> But there the suggested ID is not agreed upon. I have given the link >>>>> to this discussion. >>>>> >>>>> All of the other observations at eFI related to Lindernia crustacea do >>>>> not have distinctly winged calyx and therefore will remain as Lindernia >>>>> crustacea. >>>>> I have sent a personal mail to Aaratrik Pal, requesting him to give >>>>> his views regarding this discussion. >>>>> >>>>> Regards. >>>>> Dinesh >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 7:10 PM Tabish <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Dinesh, >>>>>> I think there is some confusion here. T. godefroyi is separated >>>>>> from T. crustacea one some characteristics, one of which is the >>>>>> distinctly >>>>>> winged calyx. I am only saying that this plant should not be T. >>>>>> crustacea >>>>>> as it shows winged calyx. If T. lindernioides is synonymous with T. >>>>>> godefroy, it may be so, I don't know - I don't have any description, >>>>>> pics, >>>>>> herbarium pics of T. godefroy to compare with. >>>>>> Tabish >>>>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>>>> <http://www.flowersofindia.net>www.flowersofindia.net >>>>>> The waterhole of flower lovers >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 6:34 PM Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> At iNaturalist, I suggested ID of *Torenia lindernioides* >>>>>>> C.J.Saldanha for two of my observations: 1) of MIDC Andheri >>>>>>> <https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/137952066>, and 2) of Nagla >>>>>>> forest <https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/72003993>. >>>>>>> Aaratrik Pal, M.Sc., University of North Bengal, Department of >>>>>>> Botany disagrees with the ID, and asserts on *Torenia crustacea* >>>>>>> (L.) Cham. & Schltdl. >>>>>>> He says: >>>>>>> "POWO is updating daily, and the above information about *T. >>>>>>> godefroyi* have not been updated yet. Both are synonymous and is >>>>>>> also distributed in West Bengal." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aaratrik Pal <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Aaratrik-Pal> >>>>>>> has written many articles related to *Torenia* spp. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>> Dinesh. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 2:29 PM Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> By now, I have made changes to my notes in flickr. >>>>>>>> As far as the characteristic of "distinctly winged calyx" goes, I >>>>>>>> can see it in my posted plants. >>>>>>>> In the first photo, we do see a capsule in the centre; however the >>>>>>>> sepals are not completely enclosing the mature capsule. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In Garg ji's listed posts, the sepals seem to be more blunt than >>>>>>>> distinctly winged ... as such would resolve to *Lindernia >>>>>>>> crustacea*. I am not good at this assertion. So I hope that Sunoj >>>>>>>> ji will provide his comments soon and help resolve the ID. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 11:40 AM J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> However, I am not satisfied with the id as *Torenia godefroyi* or >>>>>>>>> *Torenia >>>>>>>>> lindernioides *(with restricted range in Western Ghats and >>>>>>>>> Cambodia). >>>>>>>>> What about other observations from other areas at Lindernia >>>>>>>>> crustacea >>>>>>>>> <https://efloraofindia.com/2011/03/12/lindernia-crustacea/> like >>>>>>>>> SK 3258 24 December 2021 >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/xoQAkxPsgTg> >>>>>>>>> Lindernia sp. (1) from Hooghly 15/8/12 SK-1 >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/indiantreepix/Huo2W3tvDdU> >>>>>>>>> Lindernia sp. (2) from Hooghly 15/8/12 SK-2 >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/indiantreepix/pAcb_GQuLTE> >>>>>>>>> Lindernia crustacea (L.) F.Muel collected from Kamrup district >>>>>>>>> (Metro), Assam >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/KU3HUbO0DnM> >>>>>>>>> Scrophulariaceae Fortnight: Lindernia crustacea from Kaithal- NS 29 >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/lSYABMJR-XI> >>>>>>>>> Scrophulariaceae Fortnight: a guest on Lindernia crustacea (L.) >>>>>>>>> F.Muell. : sk03 >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/aobL5G85kmA> >>>>>>>>> PM1 22-09-2017 Id confirmation from chandigarh. Is it Lindernia >>>>>>>>> crustacea? >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/z5RCCxai7Uc> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Torenia thouarsii (Cham. & Schltdl.) Kuntze (accepted name) ?? >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/zMNeXJM7Bdc> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> for id. request. BRS 522 >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/indiantreepix/eWWg23fxCqM> >>>>>>>>> Torenia crustacea (L.) Cham. & Schltdl. >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/PAKGAtwmPGI> >>>>>>>>> Validation of Lindernia >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/umPk1Q5X8-8> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Herb for ID from Jim-Corbett Uttarakhand-GS10032022-2 >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/anOKvYwqBec> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In view of the above observations, I feel, we follow the broader >>>>>>>>> circumspection with all these observations as Lindernia crustacea >>>>>>>>> <https://efloraofindia.com/2011/03/12/lindernia-crustacea/> (as >>>>>>>>> we are following now). >>>>>>>>> In view Dinesh ji's plant and other similar observations from >>>>>>>>> Western Ghats may also be retained as Lindernia crustacea >>>>>>>>> <https://efloraofindia.com/2011/03/12/lindernia-crustacea/> only. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 22:00, Tabish <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just to point out that POWO treats* Torenia godefroyi* and* >>>>>>>>>> Torenia lindernioides *as distinct species, with *Torenia >>>>>>>>>> godefroyi* confied to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, and >>>>>>>>>> *Torenia >>>>>>>>>> lindernioides *confined to the Western Ghats. >>>>>>>>>> Tabish >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.flowersofindia.net>www.flowersofindia.net >>>>>>>>>> The waterhole of flower lovers >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 11:35 AM J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think Sunoj ji may finally resolve this issue being an author >>>>>>>>>>> of 'Re-establishment of the overlooked species Torenia >>>>>>>>>>> godefroyi (Linderniaceae), and notes on the identity of T. >>>>>>>>>>> lindernioides >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312558634_Re-establishment_of_the_overlooked_species_Torenia_godefroyi_Linderniaceae_and_notes_on_the_identity_of_T_lindernioides>' >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (I am unable to get a hand on it from the net) >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot, Tabish ji, for the inputs. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>>>>>>> From: Tabish <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 09:29 >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:434054] Re: Scrophulariaceae fortnight >>>>>>>>>>> :: Lindernia crustacea at Andheri :: DV06 >>>>>>>>>>> To: eFloraofIndia <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This plant, with distinctly winged calyx, should be *Torenia >>>>>>>>>>> lindernioides* which is endemic to Western Ghats. Please have a >>>>>>>>>>> look at the attached paper. It is closely similar to *Torenia >>>>>>>>>>> crustacea* (Syn: *Lindernia crustacea*) which has unwinged >>>>>>>>>>> calyx. >>>>>>>>>>> According to the paper: >>>>>>>>>>> "Torenia lindernioides has a distinctly winged calyx which >>>>>>>>>>> completely encloses the mature capsule. The capsule is elongated, >>>>>>>>>>> lelliptic >>>>>>>>>>> in outline and narrowed at the top. Lindernia crustacea, however, >>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>> sepals that are, at most, slightly thickened in the middle and >>>>>>>>>>> never invest >>>>>>>>>>> the capsule completely." >>>>>>>>>>> Tabish >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, August 16, 2013 at 5:12:18 AM UTC+5:30 Dinesh Valke >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Scrophulariaceae fortnight >>>>>>>>>>>> dog flower family >>>>>>>>>>>> *Lindernia crustacea* (L.) F. Muell. ... also placed in: >>>>>>>>>>>> Linderniaceae Plantaginaceae Veronicaceae >>>>>>>>>>>> at MIDC Andheri on 24 AUG 07 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Urikusa (in Japanese)] >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F1224907860%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzc7DxIHJEZQx1njUX_pZEE1_tb5uA> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Fua Lanumoana (in Samoan)] >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F1224061657%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzdyHN9liuka8KQKrl3l8qM__GKBrg> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/373ac98b-df9a-4a8f-8799-d45ab3d6eb4bn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/373ac98b-df9a-4a8f-8799-d45ab3d6eb4bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> With regards, >> J.M.Garg >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. 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