Thanks, Aaratrik ji -- With regards, J. M. Garg
On Sat, 8 Oct, 2022, 9:38 pm Aaratrik Pal, <[email protected]> wrote: > There should be good populations of T. godefroyi in Western Ghats, but > some how being overlooked. I'm attaching an article link, where T. > godefroyi is reported from Telangana state with photographs. > Additions to the Flora of Telangana state of India, with notes on the > phytogeographical importance - Gollamandala - 2022 - Feddes Repertorium - > Wiley Online Library > <https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/fedr.202100028> > > On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 9:05:09 PM UTC+5:30 Tabish wrote: > >> Let me summarize my view here: >> >> - Saldanha (1966) named *Torenia lindernioides* which, according to >> his paper, is endemic to the Western Ghats, and differs from *Torenia >> crustacea* in having a prominently winged calyx. >> - Prasad, Roy, Sunojkumar (2017) re-established *Torenia godefroyi,* >> and put *Torenia lindernioides* as its synonym. *Torenia godefroyi* >> was separated from *Torenia crustacea* in having a prominently winged >> calyx, among other characters. *Torenia godefroyi *was earlier known >> only from Indo-China region (SE Asia). So, according to this paper, the >> revised distribution of *Torenia godefroyi* is Indo-China region and >> Western Ghats. >> - So my question is, where is this *Torenia godefroyi* from Western >> Ghats with prominently winged calyx? Don't we have any image of it? Or are >> we misidentifying some of its images as >> *Torenia crustacea? * >> >> I think some thinking is required on it, instead of this rapid >> discussion. >> Tabish >> ------------------------------------------- >> <http://www.flowersofindia.net>www.flowersofindia.net >> The waterhole of flower lovers >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 8:09 PM J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi, Dinesh ji, >>> As all has now been identified as Lindernia crustacea >>> <https://efloraofindia.com/2011/03/12/lindernia-crustacea/>, it has to >>> be the same i.e. with the winged calyx. >>> >>> On Sat, 8 Oct 2022 at 19:56, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Garg ji, when I go through photographs posted in SK 3258 24 December >>>> 2021 <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/xoQAkxPsgTg> that >>>> show calyx, they do not seem to me as "distinctly winged" or ribbed. They >>>> look to me rather as separated sepals. That is how I perceive. >>>> Regards. >>>> Dinesh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 7:23 PM J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Dinesh ji, >>>>> How do you say "All of the other observations at eFI related to >>>>> Lindernia crustacea do not have distinctly winged calyx" ? >>>>> I feel otherwise that most of the observations at eFI related to >>>>> Lindernia crustacea also have distinctly winged calyx. >>>>> Pl. see one e.g. SK 3258 24 December 2021 >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/xoQAkxPsgTg> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 8 Oct 2022 at 19:19, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Tabish, I agree with you on the distinctly winged calyx, and >>>>>> therefore rushed to upload my observation in iNaturalist. >>>>>> But there the suggested ID is not agreed upon. I have given the link >>>>>> to this discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> All of the other observations at eFI related to Lindernia crustacea >>>>>> do not have distinctly winged calyx and therefore will remain as >>>>>> Lindernia >>>>>> crustacea. >>>>>> I have sent a personal mail to Aaratrik Pal, requesting him to give >>>>>> his views regarding this discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards. >>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 7:10 PM Tabish <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Dinesh, >>>>>>> I think there is some confusion here. T. godefroyi is separated >>>>>>> from T. crustacea one some characteristics, one of which is the >>>>>>> distinctly >>>>>>> winged calyx. I am only saying that this plant should not be T. >>>>>>> crustacea >>>>>>> as it shows winged calyx. If T. lindernioides is synonymous with T. >>>>>>> godefroy, it may be so, I don't know - I don't have any description, >>>>>>> pics, >>>>>>> herbarium pics of T. godefroy to compare with. >>>>>>> Tabish >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> <http://www.flowersofindia.net>www.flowersofindia.net >>>>>>> The waterhole of flower lovers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 6:34 PM Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At iNaturalist, I suggested ID of *Torenia lindernioides* >>>>>>>> C.J.Saldanha for two of my observations: 1) of MIDC Andheri >>>>>>>> <https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/137952066>, and 2) of Nagla >>>>>>>> forest <https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/72003993>. >>>>>>>> Aaratrik Pal, M.Sc., University of North Bengal, Department of >>>>>>>> Botany disagrees with the ID, and asserts on *Torenia crustacea* >>>>>>>> (L.) Cham. & Schltdl. >>>>>>>> He says: >>>>>>>> "POWO is updating daily, and the above information about *T. >>>>>>>> godefroyi* have not been updated yet. Both are synonymous and is >>>>>>>> also distributed in West Bengal." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aaratrik Pal <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Aaratrik-Pal> >>>>>>>> has written many articles related to *Torenia* spp. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>> Dinesh. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 2:29 PM Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> By now, I have made changes to my notes in flickr. >>>>>>>>> As far as the characteristic of "distinctly winged calyx" goes, I >>>>>>>>> can see it in my posted plants. >>>>>>>>> In the first photo, we do see a capsule in the centre; however the >>>>>>>>> sepals are not completely enclosing the mature capsule. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In Garg ji's listed posts, the sepals seem to be more blunt than >>>>>>>>> distinctly winged ... as such would resolve to *Lindernia >>>>>>>>> crustacea*. I am not good at this assertion. So I hope that Sunoj >>>>>>>>> ji will provide his comments soon and help resolve the ID. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 11:40 AM J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> However, I am not satisfied with the id as *Torenia godefroyi* >>>>>>>>>> or *Torenia lindernioides *(with restricted range in Western >>>>>>>>>> Ghats and Cambodia). >>>>>>>>>> What about other observations from other areas at Lindernia >>>>>>>>>> crustacea >>>>>>>>>> <https://efloraofindia.com/2011/03/12/lindernia-crustacea/> like >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> SK 3258 24 December 2021 >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/xoQAkxPsgTg> >>>>>>>>>> Lindernia sp. (1) from Hooghly 15/8/12 SK-1 >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/indiantreepix/Huo2W3tvDdU> >>>>>>>>>> Lindernia sp. (2) from Hooghly 15/8/12 SK-2 >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/indiantreepix/pAcb_GQuLTE> >>>>>>>>>> Lindernia crustacea (L.) F.Muel collected from Kamrup district >>>>>>>>>> (Metro), Assam >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/KU3HUbO0DnM> >>>>>>>>>> Scrophulariaceae Fortnight: Lindernia crustacea from Kaithal- NS >>>>>>>>>> 29 >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/lSYABMJR-XI> >>>>>>>>>> Scrophulariaceae Fortnight: a guest on Lindernia crustacea (L.) >>>>>>>>>> F.Muell. : sk03 >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/aobL5G85kmA> >>>>>>>>>> PM1 22-09-2017 Id confirmation from chandigarh. Is it Lindernia >>>>>>>>>> crustacea? >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/z5RCCxai7Uc> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Torenia thouarsii (Cham. & Schltdl.) Kuntze (accepted name) ?? >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/zMNeXJM7Bdc> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> for id. request. BRS 522 >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/indiantreepix/eWWg23fxCqM> >>>>>>>>>> Torenia crustacea (L.) Cham. & Schltdl. >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/PAKGAtwmPGI> >>>>>>>>>> Validation of Lindernia >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/umPk1Q5X8-8> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Herb for ID from Jim-Corbett Uttarakhand-GS10032022-2 >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/anOKvYwqBec> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In view of the above observations, I feel, we follow the broader >>>>>>>>>> circumspection with all these observations as Lindernia crustacea >>>>>>>>>> <https://efloraofindia.com/2011/03/12/lindernia-crustacea/> (as >>>>>>>>>> we are following now). >>>>>>>>>> In view Dinesh ji's plant and other similar observations from >>>>>>>>>> Western Ghats may also be retained as Lindernia crustacea >>>>>>>>>> <https://efloraofindia.com/2011/03/12/lindernia-crustacea/> >>>>>>>>>> only. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 22:00, Tabish <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just to point out that POWO treats* Torenia godefroyi* and* >>>>>>>>>>> Torenia lindernioides *as distinct species, with *Torenia >>>>>>>>>>> godefroyi* confied to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, and >>>>>>>>>>> *Torenia >>>>>>>>>>> lindernioides *confined to the Western Ghats. >>>>>>>>>>> Tabish >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.flowersofindia.net>www.flowersofindia.net >>>>>>>>>>> The waterhole of flower lovers >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 11:35 AM J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think Sunoj ji may finally resolve this issue being an author >>>>>>>>>>>> of 'Re-establishment of the overlooked species Torenia >>>>>>>>>>>> godefroyi (Linderniaceae), and notes on the identity of T. >>>>>>>>>>>> lindernioides >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312558634_Re-establishment_of_the_overlooked_species_Torenia_godefroyi_Linderniaceae_and_notes_on_the_identity_of_T_lindernioides>' >>>>>>>>>>>> (I am unable to get a hand on it from the net) >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot, Tabish ji, for the inputs. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Tabish <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 09:29 >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:434054] Re: Scrophulariaceae fortnight >>>>>>>>>>>> :: Lindernia crustacea at Andheri :: DV06 >>>>>>>>>>>> To: eFloraofIndia <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This plant, with distinctly winged calyx, should be *Torenia >>>>>>>>>>>> lindernioides* which is endemic to Western Ghats. Please have >>>>>>>>>>>> a look at the attached paper. It is closely similar to *Torenia >>>>>>>>>>>> crustacea* (Syn: *Lindernia crustacea*) which has unwinged >>>>>>>>>>>> calyx. >>>>>>>>>>>> According to the paper: >>>>>>>>>>>> "Torenia lindernioides has a distinctly winged calyx which >>>>>>>>>>>> completely encloses the mature capsule. The capsule is elongated, >>>>>>>>>>>> lelliptic >>>>>>>>>>>> in outline and narrowed at the top. Lindernia crustacea, however, >>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>> sepals that are, at most, slightly thickened in the middle and >>>>>>>>>>>> never invest >>>>>>>>>>>> the capsule completely." >>>>>>>>>>>> Tabish >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, August 16, 2013 at 5:12:18 AM UTC+5:30 Dinesh Valke >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Scrophulariaceae fortnight >>>>>>>>>>>>> dog flower family >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Lindernia crustacea* (L.) F. Muell. ... also placed in: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Linderniaceae Plantaginaceae Veronicaceae >>>>>>>>>>>>> at MIDC Andheri on 24 AUG 07 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Urikusa (in Japanese)] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F1224907860%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzc7DxIHJEZQx1njUX_pZEE1_tb5uA> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Fua Lanumoana (in Samoan)] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F1224061657%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzdyHN9liuka8KQKrl3l8qM__GKBrg> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/373ac98b-df9a-4a8f-8799-d45ab3d6eb4bn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/373ac98b-df9a-4a8f-8799-d45ab3d6eb4bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> With regards, >>> J.M.Garg >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "eFloraofIndia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/a9a9622d-deca-4c08-bbbe-6d05410ad7f3n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/a9a9622d-deca-4c08-bbbe-6d05410ad7f3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. 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