> -----Original Message-----
> From: edsi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 7:42 PM
> To: Protel EDA Forum
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Is Protel 99SE to 2004 upgrade a good idea yet?
> 
> Ian wrote
> The question then comes up is what is the learning time to 
> become proficient?  Are you better off putting that to 
> learning another application altogether?  That is the really 
> hard decision - much harder than whether the old globals are 
> better or worse or slower or faster than the new.
> 
> You have to be kidding me Ian, I wish you would quit 
> defending complicated querries over simple double clicks.  I 
> really dont think you have used DXP 2004 for more than a few 
> evaluations. Certainly not for an entire design.

Mike

Ian has used it for at least one complete design :-)

http://www.altium.com/corp/media/PuttingSoftwareToTheTest.htm

It is shipped on every 2004 CD

> The program 
> is slow,lame, and full of bugs   from the minute you load a 
> netlist to the last minute you generate gerbers.   (Popping 
> up Camtastick every time I dont want it to,  and get this,  
> Protel did away with the much needed CAM manager.  I swear 
> you have not used this program, there is now way you could 
> possibly praise how screwed up the  non- alphabetical outputs 
> are.  It really is a joke.   I have customers sitting on 23 
> seats now, they refuse to use because they cant take the time 
> to retrain their engineers to use a bugged program. I 
> personally use 2004 as an expensive translation package, 
> beyond that I might as well switch to PCAD or PADS. It is 
> real crap after 99SE  even with out querries.

What I find slower is simple edits, I should not need to build queries and store the 
shortcuts
(favourites) for something simple that should be there out of the box. The rest is an 
improvement, I
never used the SIM/3D or router anyway.

I am hoping that at some point Altium will someday see why the system is hammered so, 
but I really
do fear that because the whole product is driven by s/w developers who do PCB design 
(who find this
approach a natural thing and cannot appreciate why others find it a struggle) that the 
UI will never
get overhauled.
 
But I would not like to see the system downgraded to P99SE state. 

Sometimes it is difficult to pursue another solution when you do not see or appreciate 
the real
problem as in Altiums case (or they choose to class us as a minority). 

Ian will defend the query method to the end because to him it is natural to use and no 
big deal as
he can drive it better than most of us can / or willing to do, I am glad he gets out 
of 2004 what he
wants/needs to get his work done.

But I guess PCAD will be following Protel shortly and when Plogic gets dropped by 
Mentor (which is
already on borrowed time) then Pads 2004 has already made similar movement to an IDE, 
just not as
big a jump as Protel, so Pads will go the same way soon, but they have 
considered/respected PCB only
designers in their move, by not letting the capture side of things influence the PCB 
tools too much.

John



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