RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nico Morrison On 30/07/07, James Cridland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/30/07, Nico Morrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But for heavens sake BBC - put a proper forum up, not this manky 'messageboard'. The manky messageboard is the BBC's DNA system, which talks correctly to the single sign-on service, and does other useful fancy things. There's a lot of work going on behind the scenes; much of what I see of the BBC's current web infrastructure (now I'm inside) is very Web0.5, but that's being sorted. Don't panic. (That previous sentence was, I note, an unintended pun, given that 'DNA' is actually based on the H2G2 engine.) There are several scalable, user-friendly forum software packages, with the facility to login externally from another sign-on service. They can also connect to web pages news/articles - often called 'talkback', much superior to blog comments, as they connect news articles to an automatic forum topic and the article can also be founs from the forum. For many years in a previous life, I worked on the predecessor to the DNA engine, Howerd 2 (named after Frankie Howerd because a funny thing happened on the way to the forum - you might guess that Howerd 2 was the successor to Howerd) One of the problems the BBC has had with its forum software in the past is the /sheer/ scalability that such software has needed in the past - it's far more than most people imagine. Millions of users, at one point nearly 100 different themes, a requirement to moderate across different forums easily. And ultimately software that doesn't crash every lunch time under the enormous weight of board office workers :) Last time it was looked at, external software was looked at and discounted because nothing was scalable enough - hence a bespoke solution was built. Indeed most large sites of the scale of the BBC have had bespoke solutions over the years. In the meantime the forum industry has continued to improve their offering. Next time there's a requirement for a software refresh of the forum software, then it might just be that an off the shelf offering is suitable. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
How I enjoyed weekly update meetings with the BBC's message board team. The cycle generally went like this. Week 1: The message boards are knacked and overloaded, we are going to put some extra servers in, that will double the number of messages we can handle in a day Week 2: BBC Technology / Siemens haven't put the servers in yet Week 3: The servers are in, and we have doubled our capacity to handle messages. Week 4: Now that the boards are working better and are stable, we are getting three times as many messages as we ever did before Go back to Week 1 :-) m On 06/08/07, Andrew Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nico Morrison On 30/07/07, James Cridland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/30/07, Nico Morrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But for heavens sake BBC - put a proper forum up, not this manky 'messageboard'. The manky messageboard is the BBC's DNA system, which talks correctly to the single sign-on service, and does other useful fancy things. There's a lot of work going on behind the scenes; much of what I see of the BBC's current web infrastructure (now I'm inside) is very Web0.5, but that's being sorted. Don't panic. (That previous sentence was, I note, an unintended pun, given that 'DNA' is actually based on the H2G2 engine.) There are several scalable, user-friendly forum software packages, with the facility to login externally from another sign-on service. They can also connect to web pages news/articles - often called 'talkback', much superior to blog comments, as they connect news articles to an automatic forum topic and the article can also be founs from the forum. For many years in a previous life, I worked on the predecessor to the DNA engine, Howerd 2 (named after Frankie Howerd because a funny thing happened on the way to the forum - you might guess that Howerd 2 was the successor to Howerd) One of the problems the BBC has had with its forum software in the past is the /sheer/ scalability that such software has needed in the past - it's far more than most people imagine. Millions of users, at one point nearly 100 different themes, a requirement to moderate across different forums easily. And ultimately software that doesn't crash every lunch time under the enormous weight of board office workers :) Last time it was looked at, external software was looked at and discounted because nothing was scalable enough - hence a bespoke solution was built. Indeed most large sites of the scale of the BBC have had bespoke solutions over the years. In the meantime the forum industry has continued to improve their offering. Next time there's a requirement for a software refresh of the forum software, then it might just be that an off the shelf offering is suitable. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Martin Belam - http://www.currybet.net - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
At 16:13 +0300 6/8/07, Martin Belam wrote: How I enjoyed weekly update meetings with the BBC's message board team. The cycle generally went like this. Week 1: The message boards are knacked and overloaded, we are going to put some extra servers in, that will double the number of messages we can handle in a day Week 2: BBC Technology / Siemens haven't put the servers in yet Week 3: The servers are in, and we have doubled our capacity to handle messages. Week 4: Now that the boards are working better and are stable, we are getting three times as many messages as we ever did before Go back to Week 1 :-) m And how is the BBC Radio Player this week? We are sorry that not all BBC programmes are currently available. We are working to restore normal service. I listened to the Feedback item on Radio 4. A frank discussion about the recent crash of Radio Player and more. Refreshing that programmes like Feedback will tackle the BBC's output, warts and all. Last in the current series of Feedback, but they welcome email contact over the next few weeks... http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/feedback.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio4_aod.shtml?radio4/feedback Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 06:54:49PM +0100, Adam Leach wrote: Andy wrote: On 29/07/07, mike chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Options 3, Buy an off the shelf solution and use it. Bonus points if the people whose content your licensing are happy with it and will endemnify you against someone cracking it. Yes use an Off the shelf solution, provided it satisfies the criteria Platform Neutral. The BBC's claim We had no choice but to use MS DRM is clearly false as there where 2 perfectly good options. What are these two perfectly good options that could provide the same fuctionality as Microsoft DRM Kontiki. Write a DRM system themselves OR pay someone to write a DRM system. As for alternates to Kontiki then there are plenty of P2P type systems which are more cross-platform without even going to those lengths. Now there may well be good reasons for not writing something yourself or contracting a third party. Namely time to market. However they are valid alternatives. Alternatives the senior management should have considered. That leaves us two versions of what might have occurred. 1) The senior management did not consider these alternatives. Which seems a little short-sighted (and the original Andy would probably say negligent). 2) That time-to-market and maybe cost-issues (although long-term costs would be hard to factor in) were considered far more important than cross-platform issues and the concomitant loss of goodwill. It also seems inevitable that a Kontiki/Microsoft DRM based solution is unlikely to be a valid long-term solution. We have the Mac/Linux issues (I assume Vista can be solved pretty quickly) as well as (at some future date) people wanting to use mobile viewers and off-the-shelf set-top boxes (which usually aren't based off of a Windows code-base). -- Andy Leighton = [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials - Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
I have installed the iPlayer on a handy PC (laptop). It was not that easy, since you have install libaries etc. Is this user friendly? It appeared to need a reboot to work. I didn't read the instructions. The other thing that fooled me was that as well as the username/password sent by email, I had to remember my BBC identity (created for ICAN a while back, used for the blogs etc now). Searching is very visual. Dr. Who, Dr. Who, Dr. Who (with pictures from the episodes) but you have to select the episode (graphic) link before you can see which series and which episode. I read the accessibility guidelines. Just my two cents, YMMV, Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
At 11:34 +0100 31/7/07, Dylan Dawes wrote: I'd be interested to hear how others fare with iPlayer on their laptops. I installed 4OD on mine recently and the CPU-hogging blighter brought the whole thing to a virtual standstill even when it wasn't in active use (I had to take it off in the end). So I'm not falling over myself to install the iPlayer, as I'd like to still be able to use my laptop for things other than catching up with great TV, like writing the occasional email ... :) Dylan. I'm new here ... Sorry Welcome. I am an old lag. I have a HP laptop: AMD processor running at 1.6 GHZ with one Gigabyte of RAM. No issues at all with performances. Watching the default size screen is breathtaking (I was watching Mountain with Griff Rhys Jones) but not so good full screen (my machine probably has a bog standard graphics card). Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 29/07/07, mike chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Options 3, Buy an off the shelf solution and use it. Bonus points if the people whose content your licensing are happy with it and will endemnify you against someone cracking it. Yes use an Off the shelf solution, provided it satisfies the criteria Platform Neutral. The BBC's claim We had no choice but to use MS DRM is clearly false as there where 2 perfectly good options. Instead the BBC flush several million down the drain as poor design decision mean most of iPlayer is now likely useless for a platform neutral version. It's written in C. Yes C can be platform neutral but the BBC has made sure it isn't! C is of course a compiled language. Thus to get it to run on a platform it must be compiled for that platform (obviously). So the only ways I can think of right now for getting a platform independent C implementation: 1. Provide Source Code and ensure the code is platform neutral (conforming to standards such as POSIX). 2. Compile it to a Virtual Machine, an instruction set that doesn't really exist but can be implemented on any OS and have iPlayer run on top of it. There may be other ways, if so suggest them. But remember platform neutral so it must favour no particular platform or platforms. If you think cryptography will solve your problem, you don't know anything about cryptography, and you don't understand your problem. If you think DRM will solve your problem, you don't know anything about DRM or how CPU's function, and you don't understand your problem. Crypto is used on most DRM implementations. Thus if you say to some rights holder Look really powerful crypto, state of the art, takes trillions of years to brute force this key they'll shut up and let you use it. The BBC managed to con their media people into believing Microsoft DRM was secure, and then waited for it to be cracked before releasing iPlayer. Of course the fact it takes trillions of years to brute force the key is worthless when you put the key in the hands of the attacker (apparently all users are attackers, nice to be treated like scum by public organisations you are forced to pay for.) Given we all know DRM's broken, yet is mandated by the people who own the content, what's better for the BBC to do? Write it's own and be responsible for fixing any breakages, or use one the content providers are happy with? Write it's own. The other one is not platform neutral and will have to re engineered anyway. Is it better to get it right first time, or to waste large amounts of money on implementations that are unworkable under your regulators restrictions? Mind you the BBC could always rig a few competitions if it gets short of cash. Wouldn't be the first time would it ;). A simply way of seeing why the BBC did what it did would be to look at the iPlayer Feasibility Study, where is that document? Can I see it? Google can't find it so it's probably not on the publicly accessible web. Andy -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
Andy wrote: On 29/07/07, mike chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Options 3, Buy an off the shelf solution and use it. Bonus points if the people whose content your licensing are happy with it and will endemnify you against someone cracking it. Yes use an Off the shelf solution, provided it satisfies the criteria Platform Neutral. The BBC's claim We had no choice but to use MS DRM is clearly false as there where 2 perfectly good options. What are these two perfectly good options that could provide the same fuctionality as Microsoft DRM Kontiki. Adam - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
Thoughts: Hated having to upgrade from WMP9 to WMP11 but installation was seamless (although fiddly) the 2 downloads I've done whacked in at 9Mb/s (pretty much my max dl speed). Video quality is good - I'd guess average bitrate 1300kbps. Does what it says. But for heavens sake BBC - put a proper forum up, not this manky 'messageboard'. This is an open beta good modern forum software with threaded views, 'view replies to my posts', 'view unread posts', email notifications etc .. is essential IMHO. Makes it a lot easier for the community to selfhelp also for the developers to get feedback. Regards, Nico M __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: nicomorrison __ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 7/29/07, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (boring DRM invective deleted) Also why does the BBC trust's report not mention the fact that not only is iPlayer Windows only, it is IE only? Did the BBC not tell them they where doing this? Why can't it work with Firefox? iplayer:// can be made to run iPlayer from Firefox it's not exactly tricky is it? Or do you use some dodgy way of invoking iPlayer from IE? (or is it no longer IE only?) I asked just this question; and the answer is the invocation of the iPlayer is some kind of ActiveX nastiness. Everything else works just fine with Firefox, but the team made the sensible decision to make the entire site not work, rather than allow you to get all the way to choosing a programme and then be told you can't. It *is* on the roadmap to be sorted, though; as is the Mac/Linux issue. On 7/30/07, Nico Morrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But for heavens sake BBC - put a proper forum up, not this manky 'messageboard'. The manky messageboard is the BBC's DNA system, which talks correctly to the single sign-on service, and does other useful fancy things. There's a lot of work going on behind the scenes; much of what I see of the BBC's current web infrastructure (now I'm inside) is very Web0.5, but that's being sorted. Don't panic. (That previous sentence was, I note, an unintended pun, given that 'DNA' is actually based on the H2G2 engine.) //j http://james.cridland.net/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 7/29/07, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Must be full moon soon. There really was a full moon last night, although reports of Ian becoming a Werewolf are apparently wide of the mark :) -- Gareth Davis | Production Systems Specialist World Service Future Media Operations - Part of BBC Global News Division * 701NE Bush House, Strand, London, WC2B 4PH - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 30/07/07, James Cridland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/30/07, Nico Morrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But for heavens sake BBC - put a proper forum up, not this manky 'messageboard'. The manky messageboard is the BBC's DNA system, which talks correctly to the single sign-on service, and does other useful fancy things. There's a lot of work going on behind the scenes; much of what I see of the BBC's current web infrastructure (now I'm inside) is very Web0.5, but that's being sorted. Don't panic. (That previous sentence was, I note, an unintended pun, given that 'DNA' is actually based on the H2G2 engine.) There are several scalable, user-friendly forum software packages, with the facility to login externally from another sign-on service. They can also connect to web pages news/articles - often called 'talkback', much superior to blog comments, as they connect news articles to an automatic forum topic and the article can also be founs from the forum. The current system is not user-friendly it is difficult to see what is where to either get or give answers. No Search, no 'new replies to my posts'. No 'stickies'. No 'unread posts since my last visit'. No 'subscribe to this topic' or 'show subscribed topics'. Ugly interface. I could go on and on. Web0.5 indeed - but why does the BBC have to reinvent the wheel? Forums are often the major first-stop support base and their beauty is that it's other customers who often provide the support. You probably know all this - but are now stuck with a BBC 'standard' - I sympathise. Regards, Nico Morrison __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: nicomorrison __ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 30/07/07, James Cridland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/29/07, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (boring DRM invective deleted) Also why does the BBC trust's report not mention the fact that not only is iPlayer Windows only, it is IE only? Did the BBC not tell them they where doing this? Why can't it work with Firefox? iplayer:// can be made to run iPlayer from Firefox it's not exactly tricky is it? Or do you use some dodgy way of invoking iPlayer from IE? (or is it no longer IE only?) I asked just this question; and the answer is the invocation of the iPlayer is some kind of ActiveX nastiness. Everything else works just fine with Firefox, but the team made the sensible decision to make the entire site not work, rather than allow you to get all the way to choosing a programme and then be told you can't. It *is* on the roadmap to be sorted, though; as is the Mac/Linux issue. FireFox can be used by installing the IETab plugin adding the iplayer site to it. I know it's a fudge of course IE embedded is running under the hood - but it allows seamless use with Firefox (works with Windoze Update as well). Useability excellent. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1419 http://ietab.mozdev.org/ Regards, Nico Morrison __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: nicomorrison __ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On Sun, 2007-07-29 at 22:48 +0100, mike chamberlain wrote: Given we all know DRM's broken, yet is mandated by the people who own the content, what's better for the BBC to do? Write it's own and be responsible for fixing any breakages, or use one the content providers are happy with? I think the best option is probably for the BBC to deceive the content providers by using some kind of snake-oil 'solution' which the BBC's own technical experts _know_ won't actually achieve their desires, but which looks just good enough to the non-expert that it'll trick them into thinking that their content is 'protected' even though it isn't. Hopefully, the lie should hold up for _just_ long enough for them to realise that the Internet is no more going to destroy the content industry than video recorders did. It's a shame that the BBC has to mislead the content providers, and it's a shame that honest consumers are so inconvenienced by something which doesn't actually prevent the _serious_ piracy anyway. But this really is the best answer... honest! Seriously though -- since it's being so blatantly disingenuous, the BBC probably is doing the best thing by using someone else's snake oil rather than creating their own. It'll put them in a much better position if they're ever sued by a content provider because they entered the arrangement _knowing_ that their DRM was going to be trivially 'broken'. -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
At 10:51 +0100 30/7/07, Gareth Davis wrote: On 7/29/07, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Must be full moon soon. There really was a full moon last night, although reports of Ian becoming a Werewolf are apparently wide of the mark :) Monday, July 30, 2007: Full Moon 1:45am (BST) That is 0:45 UTC But are we off topic? :-) Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 28/07/07, Martin Belam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andy, it would probably also be common sense to read around on the topic before insulting the majority of the BBC developers who frequent this list. I read the restrictions that the BBC *claims* it has to implement. However the section about specific implementations having to be accepted by certain people makes it sound awfully like a prohibited agreement (Section 2, Competition Act 1998 particularly in relevance to: (b) limit or control production, markets, technical development or investment;) It is the requirement to have time-windowed DRM implementation, not the ability to write cross-platform code, that is the issue. That would actually be the same issue. No iPlayer client existed when the BBC started the project. They created it. The BBC claim (possible incorrectly) that there exists no cross platform DRM solution, and yet they never considered creating it. If you find no adequate solution to your problem then most people would _at least_ consider the 2 options that all such projects have of coping with this problem. 1. Develop it yourself (in house so to speak). 2. Pay someone else to develop it for you. The FOI response shows the BBC never even _considered_ such options. At the very least that is neglegent. If the BBC had considered and rejected such solutions _with valid reasons_ then it would be a different matter. They didn't though. I assumed seems the BBC didn't develop cross platform, or platform independent when _ordered to do so_, that they did not know enough to do so. Are you saying they knew how to produce a cross platform system and refused to do so despite there obligations? At the time, the only two solutions deployed at scale on the internet were Microsoft's DRM, and Apple's Fairplay DRM. Fairplay did not include the ability to expire content, and therefore could not meet the minimum requirements for our rights at all. As above, if there is no adequate solution, you develop your own! Why is this _so_ difficult? All you really need is a format for describing restrictions (how about something based on XML) and some kind of cryptographic system. Oh and look, Java (a platform independent language!!!) has in it's standard library classes for reading XML and using strong encryption. (I think Python may have these facilities too but not being a Python expert I can't be sure). The Trust has noted the strong public demand for platform neutrality and is concerned to ensure that the BBC meets this demand as soon as possible. The Trust acknowledges the BBC's commitment to platform neutrality and has taken account of the Executive's response that a two year deadline is unworkable because success is dependent on third parties outside of the BBC's control. However, in the interest of those members of the public who will be disadvantaged until this matter is resolved, the Trust will audit the BBC's progress against this objective every six months and publish its findings. Anyone notice how complete parts of that are blatantly untrue? I assume that is a mistake and not intentional deception. because success is dependent on third parties outside of the BBC's control. Which magical 3rd parties would this be? The BBC has the option to develop it's own DRM solution. DRM is like any other program. It's just a set of instructions. When I write a new program for Linux I don't phone Linux Torvalds for his permission, I can just write it. The BBC could have done the same. Add to that the fact that Linux is happy to allow you to put code into it's kernel should it need to do privileged tasks (which DRM shouldn't actually need to do, it's more for device drivers needing to write to IO registers) So why does the BBC need a third party to develop a DRM format? (also there is now cross platform time limited DRM so what more does a third party need to do?). Oh and Chris, if you are having problems with things starting at start up that you don't want to you might want to try Spybot Search Destroy ( http://www.safer-networking.org/en/index.html ). Spybot SD can show you what's set to run at startup and disable it. There was a time when all your startup programs were in a folder in the start menu, now they can be listed in several registry locations as well so it's easy to miss one. Oh and the problem with 40D, iPlayer and Sky Anytime possibly interfering with each other could be fixed by having one single open client (by open I mean anyone can publish content on it), didn't someone at the BBC say this as well? Maybe they are indeed wiser than I give them credit for. Oh well I'm off to go and see how hard it is to actually make DRM for Linux. I am not a cryptographer though, so off the shelf crypto it has to be (which is actually considerably more secure for many reasons). Though I still don't understand why bit torrent was not usable. It's a file transfer system, it can transfer files with DRM protection and the file
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 27 Jul 2007, at 16:18, James Bridle wrote: Looking forward to seeing what it looks like in XP on my Intel Mac... I installed it under Parallels on my MacBook Pro yesterday. No problems during installation (I had sorted out any WMP issues a couple of months ago when I last tried it). The video plays fine in a window, but is choppy and pixelated full screen. I would be interested to hear if it's any better under VMware Fusion. Cheers Jonathan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
Oh hark, I hear the ill-informed rabid bleat of the one-issue conspiracy theorists with absolutely no interest in the BBC and its content. Again... Must be full moon soon. * sigh * Rich. On 7/29/07, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 28/07/07, Martin Belam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andy, it would probably also be common sense to read around on the topic before insulting the majority of the BBC developers who frequent this list. I read the restrictions that the BBC *claims* it has to implement. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
The choppy and pixelated video issue is due to a lack of sufficient drivers for the Mactels to enable DirectX-accelerated hardware video rendering for video playback (hardware-accelerated DX primary surfaces are just something you take for granted until they go wrong or disappear entirely one day!) What you've described sounds like a classic case of a graphics driver running in low-acceleration mode or entirely in software acceleration mode. :/ -Original Message- From: Jonathan Tweed [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 July 2007 16:40 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today? On 27 Jul 2007, at 16:18, James Bridle wrote: Looking forward to seeing what it looks like in XP on my Intel Mac... I installed it under Parallels on my MacBook Pro yesterday. No problems during installation (I had sorted out any WMP issues a couple of months ago when I last tried it). The video plays fine in a window, but is choppy and pixelated full screen. I would be interested to hear if it's any better under VMware Fusion. Cheers Jonathan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 7/29/07, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That would actually be the same issue. No iPlayer client existed when the BBC started the project. They created it. The BBC claim (possible incorrectly) that there exists no cross platform DRM solution, and yet they never considered creating it. If you find no adequate solution to your problem then most people would _at least_ consider the 2 options that all such projects have of coping with this problem. 1. Develop it yourself (in house so to speak). 2. Pay someone else to develop it for you. Options 3, Buy an off the shelf solution and use it. Bonus points if the people whose content your licensing are happy with it and will endemnify you against someone cracking it. At the time, the only two solutions deployed at scale on the internet were Microsoft's DRM, and Apple's Fairplay DRM. Fairplay did not include the ability to expire content, and therefore could not meet the minimum requirements for our rights at all. As above, if there is no adequate solution, you develop your own! Why is this _so_ difficult? All you really need is a format for describing restrictions (how about something based on XML) and some kind of cryptographic system. If you think cryptography will solve your problem, you don't know anything about cryptography, and you don't understand your problem. Given we all know DRM's broken, yet is mandated by the people who own the content, what's better for the BBC to do? Write it's own and be responsible for fixing any breakages, or use one the content providers are happy with? Mike - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
I concur with Mike's sentiments - personally, I'm not entirely satisfied with the solution the Beeb has gone with, but then again, I can understand why the BBC chose what they did - and it could be worse (there are aspects of the MSDRM scheme they're using which some would describe as 'benefits', but which I don't feel are really appropriate for open discussion on this list). I believe others have mentioned it though (their attempts to strip the DRM out of the files after downloading them) and I've done it myself in the past (purchased, DRMed music in WMA format which I had to decrypt to allow me to play back on my older DAP). Put it like this: you won't hear me complaining, at least in the near future! Plus I'd rather have MSDRM than any Apple DRM scheme, hands down, if you had to push me to a decision... I'd rather have neither and work on a trust basis given that we've technically already paid to watch this content, but that's one of those arguments you can get into and never work to a resolution. Oh, and the rights owners would just laugh and go elsewhere, so that doesn't really work. On the brighter side of things, given that I'm a lazy sod, the fact that the content is deleted 7 days after you watch it is kind of handy, I had another two shows expire on me tonight and I thought hmm, I would've liked to have kept those... But then I thought never mind, I would've burnt them off to DVD-R or archived them on my fileserver and probably only watched them once or twice again in the future, so no great loss. So, my hard drive has a little more free space - for more lovely content! - as a result. ;) -Original Message- From: mike chamberlain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 July 2007 22:49 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today? On 7/29/07, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That would actually be the same issue. No iPlayer client existed when the BBC started the project. They created it. The BBC claim (possible incorrectly) that there exists no cross platform DRM solution, and yet they never considered creating it. If you find no adequate solution to your problem then most people would _at least_ consider the 2 options that all such projects have of coping with this problem. 1. Develop it yourself (in house so to speak). 2. Pay someone else to develop it for you. Options 3, Buy an off the shelf solution and use it. Bonus points if the people whose content your licensing are happy with it and will endemnify you against someone cracking it. At the time, the only two solutions deployed at scale on the internet were Microsoft's DRM, and Apple's Fairplay DRM. Fairplay did not include the ability to expire content, and therefore could not meet the minimum requirements for our rights at all. As above, if there is no adequate solution, you develop your own! Why is this _so_ difficult? All you really need is a format for describing restrictions (how about something based on XML) and some kind of cryptographic system. If you think cryptography will solve your problem, you don't know anything about cryptography, and you don't understand your problem. Given we all know DRM's broken, yet is mandated by the people who own the content, what's better for the BBC to do? Write it's own and be responsible for fixing any breakages, or use one the content providers are happy with? Mike - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 7/27/07, James Bridle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looking forward to seeing what it looks like in XP on my Intel Mac... Doesn't appear to work on my MacBook, both booting into an almost freshly installed XP SP2 and through XP via Parallels on Mac OS, through Internet Explorer, or through Firefox with IE Tab. When I come to download, the site is giving me the rather odd message of: Sorry - to use the BBC iPlayer you need the following - Windows XP - Internet Explorer - Windows Media Player ...where all the requirements are ticked. (Using with non-IE Tabbed Firefox or directly from Mac OS turns the relevant ticks into crosses, which is what you'd expect.) According to the instructions, this is when the kontiki app should kick in and install... I can vaguely see why it might not work through Parallels, but I'm not sure why booting directly into XP doesn't. Hrmmm.
RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
What's your browser's user-ident? Maybe one of the Mac-supplied drivers in their driver package is altering the user-agent somehow and the bbc site isn't authorising access on that basis. Only a guess... Is your XP install updated to SP2? If all else fails, I'm sure someone could send you BBC-iPlayer_Setup.exe (which updates to the latest version periodically anyway)... _ From: David Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 July 2007 09:30 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today? On 7/27/07, James Bridle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looking forward to seeing what it looks like in XP on my Intel Mac... Doesn't appear to work on my MacBook, both booting into an almost freshly installed XP SP2 and through XP via Parallels on Mac OS, through Internet Explorer, or through Firefox with IE Tab. When I come to download, the site is giving me the rather odd message of: Sorry - to use the BBC iPlayer you need the following - Windows XP - Internet Explorer - Windows Media Player ...where all the requirements are ticked. (Using with non-IE Tabbed Firefox or directly from Mac OS turns the relevant ticks into crosses, which is what you'd expect.) According to the instructions, this is when the kontiki app should kick in and install... I can vaguely see why it might not work through Parallels, but I'm not sure why booting directly into XP doesn't. Hrmmm.
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 28/07/07, mike chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd guess it's because Bittorrent gets traffic shaped out of existance on a lot of ISP's. Once ISP's see how much traffic Kontiki generates they won't traffic shape it? Could always use encrypted bit torrent. I would imagine an ISP would prefer Bit Torrent to Kontiki, Bit Torrent stops transmitting if you close the application down. Kontiki keeps running as a process, hidden from the task bar. You have to go into Task Manager to get rid of it. Read the 4OD forums, last time I did most posts where warnings about how bad Kontiki is and how it got people's internet account suspended. Of course this is only a problem if you have limited monthly bandwidth. Very few ISPs don't impose some limit (many call there plan unlimited but have a fair usage policy, which means you aren't allowed to use as much bandwidth as you want). Really sucks when you open up an application to download one program and later find out that your ISP has cut you off because when you clicked close the downloader kept going. Of course the BBC may have fixed this problem, anyone on the trail (or the BBC itself) care to confirm whether this is the case? Andy -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
Problem's not fixed. Suggested a solution (a checkbox or some other on/off switch mechanism, off by default, to enable background transfers only whilst main application is open) - given that I don't fully understand every single way in which Kontiki works (although I've wrestled with it as a user for quite some time even before 4OD) I'm somewhat certain it's doable. I'm having real issues with (ironically) installs of Kontiki-using apps - 4OD's refusing to go away even though it's uninstalled (some remnants of the interface chrome are left) so it likes to appear in the taskbar, as does the BBC Film Network download trial client - even though iPlayer is the only one deliberately loading at startup! Ho hum :D Lots of people are going to have SO many problems with SkyByBroadband (sorry, Sky Anytime) and iPlayer, it's almost not funny. I understand why they chose an 0870 number for their telephone support (granted, they'd be snowed under with all kinds of relevant and irrelevant requests if they had an 0121 or 0800! And I suppose it is fair that the service pays for itself instead of be yet another thing which comes out of the license fee, meaning everybody pays but only a few use). Right, breakfast. -Original Message- From: Andy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 July 2007 14:24 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today? On 28/07/07, mike chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd guess it's because Bittorrent gets traffic shaped out of existance on a lot of ISP's. Once ISP's see how much traffic Kontiki generates they won't traffic shape it? Could always use encrypted bit torrent. I would imagine an ISP would prefer Bit Torrent to Kontiki, Bit Torrent stops transmitting if you close the application down. Kontiki keeps running as a process, hidden from the task bar. You have to go into Task Manager to get rid of it. Read the 4OD forums, last time I did most posts where warnings about how bad Kontiki is and how it got people's internet account suspended. Of course this is only a problem if you have limited monthly bandwidth. Very few ISPs don't impose some limit (many call there plan unlimited but have a fair usage policy, which means you aren't allowed to use as much bandwidth as you want). Really sucks when you open up an application to download one program and later find out that your ISP has cut you off because when you clicked close the downloader kept going. Of course the BBC may have fixed this problem, anyone on the trail (or the BBC itself) care to confirm whether this is the case? Andy -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
So what is the time frame on a cross platform version? A week, A month, 2 months, shouldn't be any more than that at most unless iPlayer was not written well. Anyone CS graduate knows how to do platform independent coding, somebody at the BBC must know how to do it. snip patronising hints That's pretty much the basics the rest is common sense really. Andy, it would probably also be common sense to read around on the topic before insulting the majority of the BBC developers who frequent this list. It is the requirement to have time-windowed DRM implementation, not the ability to write cross-platform code, that is the issue. See the response to Vijay's FOI request earlier in this list: At the time, the only two solutions deployed at scale on the internet were Microsoft's DRM, and Apple's Fairplay DRM. Fairplay did not include the ability to expire content, and therefore could not meet the minimum requirements for our rights at all. http://vjchopra.googlepages.com/RFI2007000558-finalresponse.pdf And this from the BBC Trust in April, which envisages a much longer timeframe than your suggestion The Trust has noted the strong public demand for platform neutrality and is concerned to ensure that the BBC meets this demand as soon as possible. The Trust acknowledges the BBC's commitment to platform neutrality and has taken account of the Executive's response that a two year deadline is unworkable because success is dependent on third parties outside of the BBC's control. However, in the interest of those members of the public who will be disadvantaged until this matter is resolved, the Trust will audit the BBC's progress against this objective every six months and publish its findings. cheers, martin On 28/07/07, Christopher Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Problem's not fixed. Suggested a solution (a checkbox or some other on/off switch mechanism, off by default, to enable background transfers only whilst main application is open) - given that I don't fully understand every single way in which Kontiki works (although I've wrestled with it as a user for quite some time even before 4OD) I'm somewhat certain it's doable. I'm having real issues with (ironically) installs of Kontiki-using apps - 4OD's refusing to go away even though it's uninstalled (some remnants of the interface chrome are left) so it likes to appear in the taskbar, as does the BBC Film Network download trial client - even though iPlayer is the only one deliberately loading at startup! Ho hum :D Lots of people are going to have SO many problems with SkyByBroadband (sorry, Sky Anytime) and iPlayer, it's almost not funny. I understand why they chose an 0870 number for their telephone support (granted, they'd be snowed under with all kinds of relevant and irrelevant requests if they had an 0121 or 0800! And I suppose it is fair that the service pays for itself instead of be yet another thing which comes out of the license fee, meaning everybody pays but only a few use). Right, breakfast. -Original Message- From: Andy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 July 2007 14:24 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today? On 28/07/07, mike chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd guess it's because Bittorrent gets traffic shaped out of existance on a lot of ISP's. Once ISP's see how much traffic Kontiki generates they won't traffic shape it? Could always use encrypted bit torrent. I would imagine an ISP would prefer Bit Torrent to Kontiki, Bit Torrent stops transmitting if you close the application down. Kontiki keeps running as a process, hidden from the task bar. You have to go into Task Manager to get rid of it. Read the 4OD forums, last time I did most posts where warnings about how bad Kontiki is and how it got people's internet account suspended. Of course this is only a problem if you have limited monthly bandwidth. Very few ISPs don't impose some limit (many call there plan unlimited but have a fair usage policy, which means you aren't allowed to use as much bandwidth as you want). Really sucks when you open up an application to download one program and later find out that your ISP has cut you off because when you clicked close the downloader kept going. Of course the BBC may have fixed this problem, anyone on the trail (or the BBC itself) care to confirm whether this is the case? Andy -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial
RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
This discussion seems to be becoming a little cyclical... I've seen a lot of comments to this end on public forae, blogs and web sites too - mostly complaining about the features, or lack thereof, that have already been discussed at length on here. I think the problem a lot of people new to this discussion (or maybe even this list) aren't made fully aware of is the fact that the Beeb was basically over a barrel for certain requirements - including the restrictive DRM implementation. It's the copyright holders and the respective royalty organisations who, from what I can tell, demanded most of the restrictions and requirements for the iPlayer as it now exists. I'm pretty sure if the BBC had just been given carte blanche to develop a P2P download system for their content, they would've come up with a much more bittorrenty solution. Remember the news that the Beeb was partnering with Zudeo (Azureus v3) for American content distribution? Whatever happened to that? As I see it, the iPlayer in its current incarnation is nothing more than a stopgap until the BBC can work a manageable, appropriate solution. It's not just the BBC decision making on this project, other factions have a lot more sway in the most important areas (content protection and management, distribution etc) and as an interim solution Kontiki was the only scheme to meet the current requirements. Finally, I'm also quite confident that the BBC will pull something much better out the hat, but it'll take time. They still did the right thing by going with the best of a bad choice of options, and at least providing the Windows community with a working (for most) solution, because otherwise I think the project would've been in danger of never getting off the ground at all. Once you have something up and running, and people are using it, you can take that idea and run with it - improving on it along the way. BBC bods - even if it isn't perfect (yet), your efforts are definitely appreciated - and we know that the iPlayer project isn't set in stone, and things could (and hopefully will) change for the better in the future with regards to platform agnosticism and improvements on the DRM scheme. Your efforts are appreciated and I'm sure I speak for many others when I say that, too! I think I'm going to get really tired with having to explain just why the iPlayer isn't actually 'finished', and why it's restricted in the way it is, now that the project is being made fully public... If only more people understood just how the BBC sources its content and the complexities behind it! Someone who can phrase these concepts much more concisely should write a blog article which we can then all reference in future discussions with people who are new to iPlayer :) -Original Message- From: Martin Belam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 July 2007 20:56 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today? So what is the time frame on a cross platform version? A week, A month, 2 months, shouldn't be any more than that at most unless iPlayer was not written well. Anyone CS graduate knows how to do platform independent coding, somebody at the BBC must know how to do it. snip patronising hints That's pretty much the basics the rest is common sense really. Andy, it would probably also be common sense to read around on the topic before insulting the majority of the BBC developers who frequent this list. It is the requirement to have time-windowed DRM implementation, not the ability to write cross-platform code, that is the issue. See the response to Vijay's FOI request earlier in this list: At the time, the only two solutions deployed at scale on the internet were Microsoft's DRM, and Apple's Fairplay DRM. Fairplay did not include the ability to expire content, and therefore could not meet the minimum requirements for our rights at all. http://vjchopra.googlepages.com/RFI2007000558-finalresponse.pdf And this from the BBC Trust in April, which envisages a much longer timeframe than your suggestion The Trust has noted the strong public demand for platform neutrality and is concerned to ensure that the BBC meets this demand as soon as possible. The Trust acknowledges the BBC's commitment to platform neutrality and has taken account of the Executive's response that a two year deadline is unworkable because success is dependent on third parties outside of the BBC's control. However, in the interest of those members of the public who will be disadvantaged until this matter is resolved, the Trust will audit the BBC's progress against this objective every six months and publish its findings. cheers, martin On 28/07/07, Christopher Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Problem's not fixed. Suggested a solution (a checkbox or some other on/off switch mechanism, off by default, to enable background transfers only whilst main application
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
Phil Winstanley wrote: Any idea what time it’ll be available? This press release [1] says it’ll be available from here on the 27^th : - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer When I go to that link I see a Find out more and register... link that takes me through to the signup page. I'm connecting from within the BBC though - perhaps a different page is presented to external visitors? S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 27 Jul 2007, at 08:55, Phil Winstanley wrote: Any idea what time it’ll be available? This press release [1] says it’ll be available from here on the 27th: - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer Hi Phil No idea what the official line is, but the registration form has been up since last night. Cheers Jonathan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 27 Jul 2007, at 09:08, Steve Jolly wrote: Phil Winstanley wrote: Any idea what time it’ll be available? This press release [1] says it’ll be available from here on the 27^th : - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer When I go to that link I see a Find out more and register... link that takes me through to the signup page. I'm connecting from within the BBC though - perhaps a different page is presented to external visitors? No, that's what appeared last night. What's been launched today is an 'open, closed beta', i.e. it's still only available to users of the beta but anyone can register their interest and at some point receive an account. Cheers Jonathan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
At 12:13 +0100 27/7/07, Martin Belam wrote: As I understand it, it is that the Kontiki client underpinning the iPlayer-library-component-thing doesn't support Vista yet all the best, martin The beta testing (sic) is being carried out on a old version Microsoft's operating system? Is that correct? If is a *beta*, then it should work all target systems now. Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
How are the accounts being allocated? I signed up this morning, and like Owen I'm wondering when I'll hear. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like in XP on my Intel Mac... shorttermmemoryloss.com Owen Griffin wrote: On 7/27/07, Jonathan Tweed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 27 Jul 2007, at 09:08, Steve Jolly wrote: Phil Winstanley wrote: Any idea what time it'll be available? This press release [1] says it'll be available from here on the 27^th : - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer When I go to that link I see a Find out more and register... link that takes me through to the signup page. I'm connecting from within the BBC though - perhaps a different page is presented to external visitors? No, that's what appeared last night. What's been launched today is an 'open, closed beta', i.e. it's still only available to users of the beta but anyone can register their interest and at some point receive an account. Has anyone tried using the iPlayer on Linux using wine? I could wait for the Linux version but I'm quite impatient. :) Also, does anyone have any idea how long you have to wait before you receive an account?
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 7/27/07, Jonathan Tweed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 27 Jul 2007, at 09:08, Steve Jolly wrote: Phil Winstanley wrote: Any idea what time it'll be available? This press release [1] says it'll be available from here on the 27^th : - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer When I go to that link I see a Find out more and register... link that takes me through to the signup page. I'm connecting from within the BBC though - perhaps a different page is presented to external visitors? No, that's what appeared last night. What's been launched today is an 'open, closed beta', i.e. it's still only available to users of the beta but anyone can register their interest and at some point receive an account. Has anyone tried using the iPlayer on Linux using wine? I could wait for the Linux version but I'm quite impatient. :) Also, does anyone have any idea how long you have to wait before you receive an account? -- Owen Griffin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
It does work on all initial target systems. XP. Vista, Linux Mac to come later. The key word in Martin's post was yet. R. On 7/27/07, Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:13 +0100 27/7/07, Martin Belam wrote: As I understand it, it is that the Kontiki client underpinning the iPlayer-library-component-thing doesn't support Vista yet all the best, martin The beta testing (sic) is being carried out on a old version Microsoft's operating system? Is that correct? If is a *beta*, then it should work all target systems now. Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073 Registered address: 4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
Why is Windows Vista unsupported? Windows XP is no longer the 'current' version of the operating system and hasn't been for nearly six months. Surely iPlayer should have been developed for both, or what's the point of betas and testing and bla? On 7/27/07, Jonathan Tweed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 27 Jul 2007, at 09:08, Steve Jolly wrote: Phil Winstanley wrote: Any idea what time it'll be available? This press release [1] says it'll be available from here on the 27^th : - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer When I go to that link I see a Find out more and register... link that takes me through to the signup page. I'm connecting from within the BBC though - perhaps a different page is presented to external visitors? No, that's what appeared last night. What's been launched today is an 'open, closed beta', i.e. it's still only available to users of the beta but anyone can register their interest and at some point receive an account. Cheers Jonathan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Gary Kirk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
As I understand it, it is that the Kontiki client underpinning the iPlayer-library-component-thing doesn't support Vista yet all the best, martin On 27/07/07, Gary Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is Windows Vista unsupported? Windows XP is no longer the 'current' version of the operating system and hasn't been for nearly six months. Surely iPlayer should have been developed for both, or what's the point of betas and testing and bla? On 7/27/07, Jonathan Tweed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 27 Jul 2007, at 09:08, Steve Jolly wrote: Phil Winstanley wrote: Any idea what time it'll be available? This press release [1] says it'll be available from here on the 27^th : - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer When I go to that link I see a Find out more and register... link that takes me through to the signup page. I'm connecting from within the BBC though - perhaps a different page is presented to external visitors? No, that's what appeared last night. What's been launched today is an 'open, closed beta', i.e. it's still only available to users of the beta but anyone can register their interest and at some point receive an account. Cheers Jonathan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Gary Kirk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Martin Belam - http://www.currybet.net - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
Mine just came through. As quickly as I had hoped for and much more quickly than I had expected. Just have to see now if it will work through my proxy (Joost didn't). Paul Daniel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of James Bridle Sent: 27 July 2007 16:19 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today? How are the accounts being allocated? I signed up this morning, and like Owen I'm wondering when I'll hear. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like in XP on my Intel Mac... shorttermmemoryloss.com Owen Griffin wrote: On 7/27/07, Jonathan Tweed HYPERLINK mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 27 Jul 2007, at 09:08, Steve Jolly wrote: Phil Winstanley wrote: Any idea what time it'll be available? This press release [1] says it'll be available from here on the 27^th : - HYPERLINK http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayerhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer When I go to that link I see a Find out more and register... link that takes me through to the signup page. I'm connecting from within the BBC though - perhaps a different page is presented to external visitors? No, that's what appeared last night. What's been launched today is an 'open, closed beta', i.e. it's still only available to users of the beta but anyone can register their interest and at some point receive an account. Has anyone tried using the iPlayer on Linux using wine? I could wait for the Linux version but I'm quite impatient. :) Also, does anyone have any idea how long you have to wait before you receive an account? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.22/922 - Release Date: 27/07/2007 06:08 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.22/922 - Release Date: 27/07/2007 06:08
RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
Does the BBC need a new queuing system, perchance? I signed up this morning, and all I've had is a website response saying 'If we're able to invite you' - guess that's a 'no' then Eamonn Neylon From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Daniel Sent: 27 July 2007 19:56 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] iPlayer Today? Mine just came through. As quickly as I had hoped for and much more quickly than I had expected. Just have to see now if it will work through my proxy (Joost didn't). Paul Daniel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of James Bridle Sent: 27 July 2007 16:19 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today? How are the accounts being allocated? I signed up this morning, and like Owen I'm wondering when I'll hear. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like in XP on my Intel Mac... shorttermmemoryloss.com Owen Griffin wrote: On 7/27/07, Jonathan Tweed [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 27 Jul 2007, at 09:08, Steve Jolly wrote: Phil Winstanley wrote: Any idea what time it'll be available? This press release [1] says it'll be available from here on the 27^th : - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer When I go to that link I see a Find out more and register... link that takes me through to the signup page. I'm connecting from within the BBC though - perhaps a different page is presented to external visitors? No, that's what appeared last night. What's been launched today is an 'open, closed beta', i.e. it's still only available to users of the beta but anyone can register their interest and at some point receive an account. Has anyone tried using the iPlayer on Linux using wine? I could wait for the Linux version but I'm quite impatient. :) Also, does anyone have any idea how long you have to wait before you receive an account? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.22/922 - Release Date: 27/07/2007 06:08 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.22/922 - Release Date: 27/07/2007 06:08 Visit the BSI website at www.bsi-global.com This email may contain confidential information and/or copyright material. This email is intended for the use of the addressee only. Any unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you receive this email by mistake, please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your email software. Thank you for your cooperation. This e-mail has been scanned for all known viruses.
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 27/07/07, Owen Griffin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone tried using the iPlayer on Linux using wine? I could wait for the Linux version but I'm quite impatient. :) I doubt it would work under WINE. The BBC worked exceptionally hard to make sure it won't run under non Windows platforms. The problem is you need to run WMP and Kontiki. WMP was found to use undocumented hooks into Windows (it was the subject of an EU judgement against Microsoft). Even if WINE supported all documented Windows API calls fully (it currently doesn't) it would not know of the undocumented ones. I think that Microsoft where ordered to release details or stop using undocumented API calls, I'm not sure if they complied. So what is the time frame on a cross platform version? A week, A month, 2 months, shouldn't be any more than that at most unless iPlayer was not written well. Anyone CS graduate knows how to do platform independent coding, somebody at the BBC must know how to do it. In case they don't here's some very quick tips. * Use a platform independent language for all the code you write. * If you use external libraries ensure that: - You know in enough detail how they work so that should you need to replace them with a compatible version of your own creation you can do so (open standards would help here). - That the library is written in either a platform independent language or a portable language (that does not use non-portable extensions) and you can recompile the library to a different platform. * You should NOT make OS calls unless such a call is defined by POSIX, and then you should only use it in the defined way. * You should NOT invoke other programs unless they are either defined in POSIX or provided by you. When invoking such programs you must not do so in a platform dependant way. * You should NOT assume any particular layout or placement of files on the system, neither must you assume things like path separators That's pretty much the basics the rest is common sense really. Of course the biggest problem is the installer. They vary widely between platforms and often need to know platform specific things like where to put the binary (or executable) files. Luckily if you Open Source your code and ask nicely someone will probably package your program for you so it can be installed into Linux OSes without out you having to worry to much, and they may list your file in the central store of programs most Linux vendors have. As the installer is the only part likely to be hard to port, I will make an offer, if the BBC can guarantee it will release a Linux client and all the required parts under an Open Source license within the next three (3) months I will learn how to package applications for my particular distribution and attempt to provide a .deb file for easy installation. Can't say fairer than that. (Also if anyone at the BBC can answer this question it would be helpful: If the BBC supports standards as it so often claims why use Kontiki and not the more common and widely used Bit torrent protocol for it's content delivery?). Andy -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer Today?
On 7/27/07, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Also if anyone at the BBC can answer this question it would be helpful: If the BBC supports standards as it so often claims why use Kontiki and not the more common and widely used Bit torrent protocol for it's content delivery?). I'd guess it's because Bittorrent gets traffic shaped out of existance on a lot of ISP's. Mike. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
