Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
Nope. If convicted, he faces a year in jail. Mandatory. hmmm, maybe he shoulda took the deal. john On Sunday, March 2, 2003, at 10:45 AM, Paul Walker wrote: On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 09:24:56AM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: You have to understand the enviromental idiom concerning weapons over here. Gun ownership is common. So common in fact that every loon already has one, and they dont have to get a permit to do so. All that is required is a criminal background check. This law in Brooklyn is very unusual in This really isn't encouraging me to come to the states, you do realise this. ;-) But even so, if they think the worst they'll get is a $100 fine, I don't think that would improve things especially. Of course everyone knows that people in New York are all commies.G Ah, but proper pinko ones, or the new slightly puce ones? ') -- Paul You might have been thinking about swimming naked, but I for one was thinking of chocolate coated kangaroos. I can't guarantee anything, because I'm not sure where there is in this case, or even what planet it's on, but I'm going to try not to go there. - Kirrily vs. void in the s.d.m. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary L. Nunn Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 8:48 PM To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' Subject: RE: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder I wrote So you are saying that the homeowner should NOT have protected his family with the gun because it wasn't licensed? Andy Dawn Falcon wrote I'm saying that because he had and fired an unlicensed gun he needs to be punished for that. I don't disagree with you, but sending the man to jail with a possible felony for defending his family is an abuse of what the original intent of the law was. I agree with Doug, slap this guy on the hand for not having the proper license, and move on. Does anyone know exactly what the law is in New York? Do you have to have a license to own a gun or do you have to have a license to carry a concealed weapon. You must have a restricted permit/license to carry a handgun in New York State. NYS issues two kinds of gun permits to average citizens (non state employees): Carry and Householder/Building Permits. Individual counties also apply additional restrictions. Once a permit is issued and you purchase a handgun, the relevant serial and ID numbers for the weapon are assigned to your permit number. This takes time as well. Wait for approval averages anywhere from 2-6 months, a state and federal background check are required and fingerprinting and personal reference letters are mandatory. A carry permit allows one to carry concealed in many areas throughout the state. However, it does not allow one to carry (concealed or otherwise) in New York City without written permission from the NYC Police Commissioner. NYC is Manhattan, Queens County, Kings County (Brooklyn), The Bronx and Staten Island. To carry concealed in NYC, you need an additional permit and the approval process can be next to impossible if your job doesn't require that you carry one. I believe that once approval is issued, you MUST carry concealed. In Ohio one can own a gun without a license, but in the near future, you will need a license to carry a concealed weapon. AFAIK, the only way a New Yorker can handle a gun without a license is to go to a shooting range. Jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
On Sat, Mar 01, 2003 at 05:46:11PM -0800, Doug Pensinger wrote: I agree. Fine him $100 and close the books. At which point, every loon goes out and buys a gun, 'cause they figure the worst they'll get is a $100 fine. Nice one. The real problem here is the cop that investigated the crime. What should have happened: Thankfully, the cop seems to have been more honest. -- Paul Behind every successful programmer, there is a person with a wooden mallet, hitting him in the head to let him know when the program is finished. -- Wayne Herbert ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
At 19:14 1-3-2003 -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: In any case, using a law that was designed to fight gangbangers Huh? I am familiar with the meaning of the word gangbang (and thus with the meaning of the words gangbanger and gangbanging), but I can assure you that it has nothing to do with firearms... ...although some men may consider the relevant body part to be their gun... GRIN Jeroen XXX van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
At 20:48 1-3-2003 -0500, Gary Nunn wrote: I don't disagree with you, but sending the man to jail with a possible felony for defending his family is an abuse of what the original intent of the law was. That's rhetoric, not fact, Gary. The guy is not going on trial for defending his family, he is going on trial for illegal possesion of a firearm. Jeroen You do the crime, you do the time van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
- Original Message - From: Paul Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:31 AM Subject: Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder On Sat, Mar 01, 2003 at 05:46:11PM -0800, Doug Pensinger wrote: I agree. Fine him $100 and close the books. At which point, every loon goes out and buys a gun, 'cause they figure the worst they'll get is a $100 fine. Nice one. You have to understand the enviromental idiom concerning weapons over here. Gun ownership is common. So common in fact that every loon already has one, and they dont have to get a permit to do so. All that is required is a criminal background check. This law in Brooklyn is very unusual in that it appears to be a criminal offence and that a cop would actually enforce it. The real problem here is the cop that investigated the crime. What should have happened: Thankfully, the cop seems to have been more honest. That idiom appears to be different here too. Over here an honest cop is unlikely to enforce a law like that one in a situation where it appears to conflict with the *spirit* of the second amendment, regardless of the letter of the local law. Of course everyone knows that people in New York are all commies.G xponent Gun Cabinet Maru rob but i ain't got a hammer and i ain't got a pencil and i ain't got a lasso so i'm doing it the hard way like a post post-modern man ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 09:24:56AM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: You have to understand the enviromental idiom concerning weapons over here. Gun ownership is common. So common in fact that every loon already has one, and they dont have to get a permit to do so. All that is required is a criminal background check. This law in Brooklyn is very unusual in This really isn't encouraging me to come to the states, you do realise this. ;-) But even so, if they think the worst they'll get is a $100 fine, I don't think that would improve things especially. Of course everyone knows that people in New York are all commies.G Ah, but proper pinko ones, or the new slightly puce ones? ') -- Paul You might have been thinking about swimming naked, but I for one was thinking of chocolate coated kangaroos. I can't guarantee anything, because I'm not sure where there is in this case, or even what planet it's on, but I'm going to try not to go there. - Kirrily vs. void in the s.d.m. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
Rob wrote Contrary to the rumors circling the globe, US citizens don't run around waving their guns in the air or shooting beer bottles off handy fence rails. People are much more discrete than that. (And I'm in Texas in case you don't recall) To see Americans shooting guns you pretty much have to go to a shooting range. H Don't let that secret out! The rest of the world might find out that we are *NOT* the gun toting cowboys that the movies make us all out to be. ATTENTION WORLD: contrary to what Rob would have y'all believe, we *ARE* gun toting cowboys. Have you ever seen any of those really bad Chuck Norris movies? Guess what, those were TRUE stories, just like the Die Hard movies and several selected really bad Arnold movies.. That crap goes on here every single day. Beware of us crazy, redneck Americans. Gary Getting ready to go shoot beer bottles off he fence while practicing my quick draw Maru. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
rob wrote: Contrary to the rumors circling the globe, US citizens dont run around waving their guns in the air or shooting beer bottles off handy fence rails. People are much more discrete than that. (And I'm in Texas in case you dont recall) To see Americans shooting guns you pretty much have to go to a shooting range. Or turn on a cop show on television ;-) Reggie Bautista _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
On 2 Mar 2003 at 10:58, Robert Seeberger wrote: On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 09:24:56AM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: You have to understand the enviromental idiom concerning weapons over here. Gun ownership is common. So common in fact that every loon already has one, and they dont have to get a permit to do so. All that is required is a criminal background check. This law in Brooklyn is very unusual in This really isn't encouraging me to come to the states, you do realise this. ;-) But even so, if they think the worst they'll get is a $100 fine, I don't think that would improve things especially. Well. there are something on the order of 83,000,000 gun owners in the US, and hardly any of them shot anybody last week/month/year. The fact that of all the Americans you have known, hardly any of them have died from gunshot wounds, and that should tell you something about the actual state of things here. I rarely see a firearm, and if I do its usually on the hip of a policeman, and rarely a friend will show me a new gun he has recently bought. I ***never*** see armed soldiers. Yeah well. The only country I've been in where guns are common is Israel. Where you see armed people (to start with off-duty soldiers, who are required to carry their rifles) all the time. Then...'ell, if you live in certain parts the old city of Jerusalem, you're *encouraged* to own a handgun and carry it. I know a fair few rabbis who do... And yes, quite a few of my Isralie friends carry guns on a regular basis. Of course, I also can't blame em. Only places (except twice) I've ever seen guns in the UK were at airports. Watched an armed police raid once and been shot at once... Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
Jeroen wrote: Besides, I think the I would be out of a job statement is a lame excuse; mr. Dixon *knew* he was breaking the law by owning an unlicensed gun. If he's going to lose his job because of it, well, that's his own fault -- he should have thought of that before he decided to keep an unlicensed gun in the house. Actually, unless I missed it in the original article (certainly possible), it was not stated whether Dixon found out that the lawyer who was supposed to handle his gun paperwork went out of business before or after this incident, and if before, how long before. Also, it's possible that even if he knew, a judge or jury might find that he took reasonable steps to attempt to register his gun, depending on how long he knew it was unlicensed before the shooting (if he knew for a week, they would be much more lenient that if he knew for a year). If he knew for an extended period of time before the attempted burglary that his gun was unlicensed and took no steps to correct that, he deserved to be punished for that. I also note that the article didn't say whether the burglar was armed. If he wasn't armed, then I would probably also support charges against mr. Dixon for attempted manslaughter. In many or most jurisdictions within the U.S., if there is an intruder in your home and you feel threatened, you are legally justified in killing that person even if they are unarmed. In a darkened house, very often it's hard to tell for certain. As others have mentioned, the general idea is if someone's breaking in, shoot and kill them, and if they are in the doorway, make sure they fall *inside* the house. I only wonder if the burglar is going to follow tradition and sue mr. Dixon for shooting him... That's the part that makes the least sense in all of this. If you feel threatened, you can shoot the intruder. If you kill them (with a properly licensed gun) then everything is ok. If you don't kill them, they can sue you. I've never understood that. Reggie Bautista _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
Robert Seeberger wrote: Contrary to the rumors circling the globe, US citizens dont run around waving their guns in the air or shooting beer bottles off handy fence rails. People are much more discrete than that. (And I'm in Texas in case you dont recall) To see Americans shooting guns you pretty much have to go to a shooting range. Certainly not in the cities. I have a friend whose uncle has a ranch near San Angelo. This friend learned to shoot by hanging out with his cousins and shooting cans off boxes. But, I know a number of people who have guns, and he's the only one who's indicated he ever does shooting that way. Usually, if he wants to practice shooting, he goes to a range. (There's at least one on 1825 in Pflugerville, which isn't too far from where he lives.) So, accurate on the pretty much. :) There are the occasional yahoo redneck exceptions, but they tend to keep it out in the country, where no one else is going to get hit. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
Julia wrote: There are the occasional yahoo redneck exceptions, but they tend to keep it out in the country, where no one else is going to get hit. You forgot the (tm) after yahoo... :-) Reggie Bautista [sung in country music voice] Dot Com [spoken ala James Earl Jones] Maru _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
Reggie Bautista wrote: Julia wrote: There are the occasional yahoo redneck exceptions, but they tend to keep it out in the country, where no one else is going to get hit. You forgot the (tm) after yahoo... :-) No, that's Yahoo!(tm). I was referring to a certain class of people, not a web presence. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 10:58:35AM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote: The fact that of all the Americans you have known, hardly any of them have died from gunshot wounds, and that should tell you something about the actual state of things here. I rarely see a firearm, and if I do its True. (I'll ignore the fact I don't actually know that many Americans. ;-) Contrary to the rumors circling the globe, US citizens dont run around waving their guns in the air or shooting beer bottles off handy fence rails. People are much more discrete than that. (And I'm in Texas in case You're shattering all kinds of illusions here, you do know that? Ah, but proper pinko ones, or the new slightly puce ones? ') Pick a color...its humor, so you have to participate a bit. G Well, y'know, I thought I'd let you pick the colour. :) I actually prefer blue, but that's not exactly the traditional choice here. -- Paul Q: How many Zen masters does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master stays out of the way. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
There was a stranger in the house. When Dixon saw the intruder enter his young son's room, he grabbed his 9 mm pistol, loaded it, and moved to the entrance of the boy's room. He saw the man rifling through drawers, and said, What are you doing in my house? http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/US/stossel_gmabburglar030228.html My opinion: I am a bit torn on this one. I am absolutely in favor or self defense, especially in the home, but he did have an unlicensed gun in New York. But I am annoyed that the burglar was let go on probation (the first time) and now the dad is facing jail time for self defense. H. Gary ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
Gary L. Nunn wrote: My opinion: I am a bit torn on this one. I am absolutely in favor or self defense, especially in the home, but he did have an unlicensed gun in New York. But I am annoyed that the burglar was let go on probation (the first time) and now the dad is facing jail time for self defense. H. The rule of thumb is: if you have to shoot someone in self-defense, shoot to kill, and make the body disappear. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
- Original Message - From: Gary L. Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Brin Mail List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 8:18 AM Subject: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder My opinion: I am a bit torn on this one. I am absolutely in favor or self defense, especially in the home, but he did have an unlicensed gun in New York. But I am annoyed that the burglar was let go on probation (the first time) and now the dad is facing jail time for self defense. H. Hynes appears to be an authoritarian idiot. He does not seem to understand the concept of flexibility in the law or to understand that the law is intended to protect persons and property. To me, this isn't even a gun control issue. Its more of a registration law issue. You are also required to register your motor vehicle, but the disparity between the penalties is unthinkable. (A fine vs. jail time) Are prosecutors elected in Brooklyn? This guy Hynes sounds like he needs a new job.maybe in the recycling business. xponent Ever Increasing List Of Idiocy Maru rob smart patrol nowhere to go suburban robots that monitor reality common stock we work around the clock we shove the poles in the holes ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
Gary L. Nunn wrote: My opinion: I am a bit torn on this one. I am absolutely in favor or self defense, especially in the home, but he did have an unlicensed gun in New York. But I am annoyed that the burglar was let go on probation (the first time) and now the dad is facing jail time for self defense. H. H indeed. This tells me that, depending on how you feel about gun laws, maybe you shouldn't live in New York. I'll be interested in seeing what the jury does with this case. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
--- Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary L. Nunn wrote: My opinion: I am a bit torn on this one. I am absolutely in favor or self defense, especially in the home, but he did have an unlicensed gun in New York. But I am annoyed that the burglar was let go on probation (the first time) and now the dad is facing jail time for self defense. The rule of thumb is: if you have to shoot someone in self-defense, shoot to kill, and make the body disappear. I was told, by sources that shall remain nameless, that you shoot *until the assailant stops attacking you* - which coincidentally happens when they're dead. One Lump Or Two? Maru:P __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
So license the gun and fine the guy. What was the other SOB doing in his house? George A - Original Message - From: Andrew Crystall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 1:30 AM Subject: Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder Gary L. Nunn wrote: My opinion: I am a bit torn on this one. I am absolutely in favor or self defense, especially in the home, but he did have an unlicensed gun in New York. But I am annoyed that the burglar was let go on probation (the first time) and now the dad is facing jail time for self defense. H. I'm in favour of shooting people who have unliscenced guns in the knee with them. *shrugs* You'll get no sympthy from me for posessing unliscenced lethal weapons. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
- Original Message - From: Andrew Crystall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 1:30 AM Subject: Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder Gary L. Nunn wrote: My opinion: I am a bit torn on this one. I am absolutely in favor or self defense, especially in the home, but he did have an unlicensed gun in New York. But I am annoyed that the burglar was let go on probation (the first time) and now the dad is facing jail time for self defense. H. I'm in favour of shooting people who have unliscenced guns in the knee with them. *shrugs* You'll get no sympthy from me for posessing unliscenced lethal weapons. Andy Dawn Falcon At 09:50 AM 3/2/03 +0900, G. D. Akin wrote: So license the gun and fine the guy. What was the other SOB doing in his house? That, my friends, is the real issue here. Had he been an honest person minding his own legitimate business, rather than a criminal breaking into someone else's residence, not only would he not have gotten shot, but no one would know or care whether the homeowner had a weapon, licensed or unlicensed. -- Ronn! :) Almighty Ruler of the all, Whose Power extends to great and small, Who guides the stars with steadfast law, Whose least creation fills with awe, O grant thy mercy and thy grace, To those who venture into space. (Robert A. Heinlein's added verse to the Navy Hymn) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
- Original Message - From: Andrew Crystall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 6:00 PM Subject: Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder On 1 Mar 2003 at 16:53, Julia Thompson wrote: Gary L. Nunn wrote: My opinion: I am a bit torn on this one. I am absolutely in favor or self defense, especially in the home, but he did have an unlicensed gun in New York. But I am annoyed that the burglar was let go on probation (the first time) and now the dad is facing jail time for self defense. H. H indeed. This tells me that, depending on how you feel about gun laws, maybe you shouldn't live in New York. I'll be interested in seeing what the jury does with this case. Sorry, but this is NOT about self-defence. It's about an unliscenced gun. That is the only relevant issue here. The fact he fired it at someone facing the family was another matter. As far as I'm concerned, using an *unlisenced* weapon you've been carrying arround shouldn't (and in UK law mostly dosn't) allow any form of mitigating plea. Unless Brooklyn has somehow migrated to the UK, your point lacks something by the way of relevence. Most places in the US dont have the type of gun registration cited. Without more information it is difficult to say if there might have been an honest mistake made in regards to gun registration in Brooklyn. In any case, using a law that was designed to fight gangbangers and violent criminals against a law abiding citizen who was protecting his family. Its a simple matter of not turning the average citizen into an automatic victim. xponent Not A Victim Maru rob Realising a form out of stone Set hands moving Roan shaped his heart Thru his working hands Work to mould his passion into clay Like the sun ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
On 2 Mar 2003 at 9:50, G. D. Akin wrote: So license the gun and fine the guy. What was the other SOB doing in his house? That's a matter for a separate criminal case if they catch him. The gun was unliscenced and that deserves at least jail time *shrugs* I'd add a llifetime ban on owning guns. George A - Original Message - From: Andrew Crystall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 1:30 AM Subject: Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder Gary L. Nunn wrote: My opinion: I am a bit torn on this one. I am absolutely in favor or self defense, especially in the home, but he did have an unlicensed gun in New York. But I am annoyed that the burglar was let go on probation (the first time) and now the dad is facing jail time for self defense. H. I'm in favour of shooting people who have unliscenced guns in the knee with them. *shrugs* You'll get no sympthy from me for posessing unliscenced lethal weapons. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
On 1 Mar 2003 at 18:58, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: Gary L. Nunn wrote: My opinion: I am a bit torn on this one. I am absolutely in favor or self defense, especially in the home, but he did have an unlicensed gun in New York. But I am annoyed that the burglar was let go on probation (the first time) and now the dad is facing jail time for self defense. H. I'm in favour of shooting people who have unliscenced guns in the knee with them. *shrugs* You'll get no sympthy from me for posessing unliscenced lethal weapons. Andy Dawn Falcon At 09:50 AM 3/2/03 +0900, G. D. Akin wrote: So license the gun and fine the guy. What was the other SOB doing in his house? That, my friends, is the real issue here. Had he been an honest person minding his own legitimate business, rather than a criminal breaking into someone else's residence, not only would he not have gotten shot, but no one would know or care whether the homeowner had a weapon, licensed or unlicensed. There are two TOTALLY separate issues here. One, there's a criminal who broke and entered, and thus must be punished for such. Two, there's a criminal who owned and fired a unliscenced gun, and thus must be punished for such. Simple. This isn't an issue about home defence or similar. The Judge has a DUTY to stop that sort of evidence being introduced. See The trial of Dr. Death. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
One, there's a criminal who broke and entered, and thus must be punished for such. Two, there's a criminal who owned and fired a unliscenced gun, and thus must be punished for such. Andy Dawn Falcon So you are saying that the homeowner should NOT have protected his family with the gun because it wasn't licensed? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
Robert Seeberger wrote: Unless Brooklyn has somehow migrated to the UK, your point lacks something by the way of relevence. Most places in the US dont have the type of gun registration cited. Without more information it is difficult to say if there might have been an honest mistake made in regards to gun registration in Brooklyn. In any case, using a law that was designed to fight gangbangers and violent criminals against a law abiding citizen who was protecting his family. Its a simple matter of not turning the average citizen into an automatic victim. I agree. Fine him $100 and close the books. The real problem here is the cop that investigated the crime. What should have happened: Cop: Is the gun registered? Homeowner: No sir. Cop: Oh so you wrestled the gun away from the intruder and then shot him! Homeowner: No sir, it's my gun. Cop: Oh so you wrestled the gun away from the intruder and then shot him! (nodding head vigorously) Homeowner: Ohh (light bulb appearing over his head), yes sir, I shot the intruder with his own gun. Cop: I thought so. Doug ROU Extenuating Circumstances ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
On 1 Mar 2003 at 17:46, Doug Pensinger wrote: Robert Seeberger wrote: Unless Brooklyn has somehow migrated to the UK, your point lacks something by the way of relevence. Most places in the US dont have the type of gun registration cited. Without more information it is difficult to say if there might have been an honest mistake made in regards to gun registration in Brooklyn. In any case, using a law that was designed to fight gangbangers and violent criminals against a law abiding citizen who was protecting his family. Its a simple matter of not turning the average citizen into an automatic victim. I agree. Fine him $100 and close the books. The real problem here is the cop that investigated the crime. What should have happened: Cop: Is the gun registered? Homeowner: No sir. Cop: Oh so you wrestled the gun away from the intruder and then shot him! Homeowner: No sir, it's my gun. Cop: Oh so you wrestled the gun away from the intruder and then shot him! (nodding head vigorously) Homeowner: Ohh (light bulb appearing over his head), yes sir, I shot the intruder with his own gun. Cop: I thought so. Doug ROU Extenuating Circumstances Actually, corrupt cop. It's not their place to do things like that. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
On 1 Mar 2003 at 20:31, Gary L. Nunn wrote: One, there's a criminal who broke and entered, and thus must be punished for such. Two, there's a criminal who owned and fired a unliscenced gun, and thus must be punished for such. Andy Dawn Falcon So you are saying that the homeowner should NOT have protected his family with the gun because it wasn't licensed? I'm saying that because he had and fired an unliscenced gun he needs to be punished for that. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
I wrote So you are saying that the homeowner should NOT have protected his family with the gun because it wasn't licensed? Andy Dawn Falcon wrote I'm saying that because he had and fired an unlicensed gun he needs to be punished for that. I don't disagree with you, but sending the man to jail with a possible felony for defending his family is an abuse of what the original intent of the law was. I agree with Doug, slap this guy on the hand for not having the proper license, and move on. Does anyone know exactly what the law is in New York? Do you have to have a license to own a gun or do you have to have a license to carry a concealed weapon. In Ohio one can own a gun without a license, but in the near future, you will need a license to carry a concealed weapon. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
On 1 Mar 2003 at 20:48, Gary L. Nunn wrote: I wrote So you are saying that the homeowner should NOT have protected his family with the gun because it wasn't licensed? Andy Dawn Falcon wrote I'm saying that because he had and fired an unlicensed gun he needs to be punished for that. I don't disagree with you, but sending the man to jail with a possible felony for defending his family is an abuse of what the original intent of the law was. I agree with Doug, slap this guy on the hand for not having the proper license, and move on. Uhh. No, it's a matter of public safety. If you do that, then you greenlight anyone to carry an unliscenced gun and get away with it. Besides, he WAS offered the slap on the wrist and rejected it in favour of a trial. Does anyone know exactly what the law is in New York? Do you have to have a license to own a gun or do you have to have a license to carry a concealed weapon. In Ohio one can own a gun without a license, but in the near future, you will need a license to carry a concealed weapon. As far as I'n concerned, that's nuts. Means you can have people who don't know gun safety... At least in Israel, the people you see walking arround with guns have had military training... Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
I wrote. In Ohio one can own a gun without a license, but in the near future, you will need a license to carry a concealed weapon. Andy Dawn Falcon wrote As far as I'n concerned, that's nuts. Means you can have people who don't know gun safety... At least in Israel, the people you see walking arround with guns have had military training... Actually, I agree with you on both points. I know gun owners here in town that genuinely scare me. They are redneck, good old, boys who's parents were probably cousins. The new concealed carry law will be a good thing though. It will require not only background checks, but an 8 or 10 hour safety class and test before you will be able to legally carry a concealed weapon. Personally, I would consider a safety class and license before you were allowed to own a weapon a good thing. Gary Gun control means using two hands Maru. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
On 1 Mar 2003 at 21:18, Gary L. Nunn wrote: I wrote. In Ohio one can own a gun without a license, but in the near future, you will need a license to carry a concealed weapon. Andy Dawn Falcon wrote As far as I'n concerned, that's nuts. Means you can have people who don't know gun safety... At least in Israel, the people you see walking arround with guns have had military training... Actually, I agree with you on both points. I know gun owners here in town that genuinely scare me. They are redneck, good old, boys who's parents were probably cousins. The new concealed carry law will be a good thing though. It will require not only background checks, but an 8 or 10 hour safety class and test before you will be able to legally carry a concealed weapon. Personally, I would consider a safety class and license before you were allowed to own a weapon a good thing. Gary Gun control means using two hands Maru. *nods* Don't get me wrong - I'm not against private gun ownership (of pistols, hunting rifles and shotguns and the like - not military weapons), but I'd like to see a compulsory safety class before they get a liscence. I'm also utterly against anyone with a criminal record of any severity (even 2+ things like theft) being allowed a lisence. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
At 08:31 PM 3/1/03 -0500, Gary L. Nunn wrote: One, there's a criminal who broke and entered, and thus must be punished for such. Two, there's a criminal who owned and fired a unliscenced gun, and thus must be punished for such. Andy Dawn Falcon So you are saying that the homeowner should NOT have protected his family with the gun because it wasn't licensed? Of course not. He should have never had a gun in the first place. The homeowner and his family are the ones who should be dead instead of the robber. Besides, the only reason the robber was stealing from the homeowner was that society had treated him badly because they misunderstood him. He needed the money for drugs to dull the pain of society's rejection of him-- *urp* [Sorry, I've got to stop this: I'm about to hurl. ;-) ] -- Ronn! :) An armed society is a polite society. -- Robert A. Heinlein ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brooklyn Dad Facing Jail for Shooting Intruder
On 2 Mar 2003 at 0:16, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 08:31 PM 3/1/03 -0500, Gary L. Nunn wrote: One, there's a criminal who broke and entered, and thus must be punished for such. Two, there's a criminal who owned and fired a unliscenced gun, and thus must be punished for such. Andy Dawn Falcon So you are saying that the homeowner should NOT have protected his family with the gun because it wasn't licensed? Of course not. He should have never had a gun in the first place. The homeowner and his family are the ones who should be dead instead of the robber. Besides, the only reason the robber was stealing from the homeowner was that society had treated him badly because they misunderstood him. He needed the money for drugs to dull the pain of society's rejection of him-- *urp* [Sorry, I've got to stop this: I'm about to hurl. ;-) ] Sigh. I'm sorry, but it's two issues. And I repeat - he was offered the slap on the wrist. He's forced it into court, where I don't think he'll get much sympathy if the judge does his job in terms of relevant evidence. I have NO sympathy for the robber. None. But that dosn't change the unliscenced gun issue. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
