Re: DDT 0.11.0 released (please read!)
On 06/03/2015 17:37, Bruno Medeiros wrote: A new version of DDT is out. Improvements to the semantic engine, important fixes: https://github.com/bruno-medeiros/DDT/releases/tag/Release_0.11.0 There has also been some big internal changes lately, so these latest releases might be a bit more buggy than usual. (as exemplified by the regression where code folding and quick-outline were broken :s - and shame on me for taking so long to notice that) Note that there is a tool recently released, Eclipse Optimizer, that can help optimize Eclipse startup time: Also, to improve Eclipse performance and startup time, it is recommended you tweak the JVM parameters. There is a tool called Eclipse Optimizer that can do that automatically, it is recommended you use it. Read more about it http://www.infoq.com/news/2015/03/eclipse-optimizer . (Installing/enabling the JRebel optimization is not necessary as that only applies to Java developers) I've added the above info to the User Guide. Also, because Google Code is shutting down, I've moved the DDT project homepage to: http://ddt-ide.github.io/ -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 23/03/2015 15:35, Ben Boeckel via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: Running a Python script to generate D code? Yes, in DUB you can run arbitrary external commands before and after the D sources compilation. But not in between? Basically, can you have a tool written in D built with the project and then used to generate code in the same project? --Ben That should be possible if you split it into two bundles or so, if I understood that case correctly. The external commands run before and after a compilation of a bundle (known in DUB as package). So you could have: 1. bundleA - pre external commands 2. bundleA - D sources compilation 3. bundleA - post external commands 4. bundleB - pre external commands 5. bundleB - D sources compilation and so on.. (if bundleA is set as a dependency of bundleB) -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 25/03/2015 2:24 a.m., Bruno Medeiros wrote: On 23/03/2015 15:35, Ben Boeckel via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: Running a Python script to generate D code? Yes, in DUB you can run arbitrary external commands before and after the D sources compilation. But not in between? Basically, can you have a tool written in D built with the project and then used to generate code in the same project? --Ben That should be possible if you split it into two bundles or so, if I understood that case correctly. The external commands run before and after a compilation of a bundle (known in DUB as package). So you could have: 1. bundleA - pre external commands 2. bundleA - D sources compilation 3. bundleA - post external commands 4. bundleB - pre external commands 5. bundleB - D sources compilation and so on.. (if bundleA is set as a dependency of bundleB) Actually I was thinking along the lines of using sub packages to do this. package: depends on subPackage2 subPackage1: pre: do stuff compile D post: do stuff subPackage2: depends on subPackage1 pre: do stuff compile D post: do stuff Of course you could chain this as long as you want.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 23/03/2015 23:01, Ben Boeckel via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 21:14:31 +0100, Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 2015-03-23 13:54, Bruno Medeiros wrote: There's no plans ATM to integrate with CDT itself. (I don't even know what integration with java tools would mean here) Even for CDT, I don't see what much would there be to integrate, other than the build system. I would guess he means using C(++) files and D files in the same project and the build system would just work. From what I understand[1] of Eclipse (which I admit isn't much from a user's PoV), it supports natures to be loaded which provide functionality. Now I have no idea how much work this is, but it would be nice to have a nature for D support (syntax highlighting, completion, etc.). If it includes dub, great, but it might be worth it to have a separate nature for that. CMake (and other theoretical tools) would then just add the D support nature to handle the D files and use the existing build support. Projects created through DDT itself could add the dub nature by default (FWIW, I don't think CDT generates CMake-based projects out of the box either). Basically, make DDT suitable for using it with other projects which don't use dub because it doesn't suit the upstream project whether it be because the project is more than some D code, YAML is preferred to JSON or whatever. Take my gunroar[2] repo for example. It's mainly D code, but there is some C and Java in the src/android directory. If one were working in Eclipse with it, it would be nice to support using CDT features for the C code, the native Java support for the Java code, DDT for the D code, and the build button to put it all together. --Ben [1]This is based on my experience where enabling the Android bits in an Eclipse project generated by CMake is to allow users to add natures to the generated .project file using the ECLIPSE_EXTRA_NATURES global property. [2]https://github.com/mathstuf/abagames-gunroar Yes, there is a D nature for Eclipse's .project: org.dsource.ddt.ide.core.nature Curiously though, a few DDT features will work fine without that nature, namely semantic features (code completion, go to definition, etc.). They even work with external files (files not in an Eclipse project), as long as they are part of a DUB bundle (known in DUB as a package). This is because, for example, when invoking code completion on a D source, DDT will try to find a dub.json file in the tree of parent dirs of the D file. Once it finds it, it will analyze the source structure of that bundle and all its dependency bundles (using `dub describe`, and then code completion will have all module information correctly available. And the caching of the semantic engine will still work just fine. :) As for not using DUB. Hum, I could add feature of a flag to a project options to prevent it from using DUB (the executable). This way the DUB build would be a no-op, and `dub describe` would not be run either. You would still have to use the dub.json file to describe source folders though. (Again there's no sense in making a new format to describe this) As for your gunroar example. I don't know how CMake generates an Eclipse project, but that scenario that sounds like it should have multiple Eclipse projects generated. (One for D code, one for C bits, another for Java bits) Trying to shove everything in one project wont work properly. (The directory structure of gunroar might have to be changed a bit to accommodate that though) An Eclipse project is a build unit, and is not the equivalent of a VisualStudio solution. An Eclipse workspace is much more akin to a VS solution. -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 24/03/2015 02:22, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 23 March 2015 at 22:39, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce In Visual-D you can even press F12 (go to definition) on an extern(C) symbol in your D code, and it will jump to the .cpp file where it's defined. That's quite nice. And what exactly seamlessly means here, what is offered in Mono-D that couldn't be done in DDT? Automatic linking between sibling libs within a solution, referencing of symbols between the languages/projects, automatic rebuild dependencies between sibling projects. I'm sure it could all be done in DDT. I'm just saying that as an end-user I would expect that level of interoperation with CDT and no less. I haven't tested those things, they may already work. Just FYI: referencing of symbols between the languages/projects definitely doesn't work at all. The rest, Automatic linking between sibling libs within a solution, automatic rebuild dependencies between sibling projects, etc., that won't work out of the box, but can be made to work if you go configure Eclipse options, and build system configuration. Requires some work, it won't be seamless. I'm gonna me straight up with you about DDT: With work, probably a lot could could be achieved in terms of CDT C/C++ integration. But, personally, I became interested in the D world to completely escape the C/C++ one. I don't use C/C++ professionally or on a hobby basis. That means doing CDT integration (other than trivial stuff) is low priority for me - even though I fully agree that better D and C/C++ toolchain integration is very important for D's success, if not vital. And low priority, given all the stuff I have planned in the DDT (siblings) roadmap, effectively means: not gonna get done. Unless someone else wants to work on that (that would be welcome of course). -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 20/03/2015 04:12, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 19 March 2015 at 07:12, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 18/03/2015 00:12, Trent Forkert wrote: Unless something has changed recently, it shouldn't require dub. Last time I checked, my CMake work[1] could still generate projects for Eclipse from a D codebase, using Makefiles or Ninja. Not that that helps if you are creating a project from an Eclipse Wizard, which I haven't done in a long time. [1] https://github.com/trentforkert/cmake What kind of Eclipse projects does it generate? If it generates CDT projects, it's not really much help as CDT doesn't understand D (duh), and DDT doesn't work with CDT projects (also duh). Why is that 'duh'? I would expect nothing less than for DDT and CDT to interact comprehensively. Fair enough on that last 'duh', it could have been that DDT integrated with CDT. VisualD and Mono-D interact extensively with the existing C/C++ toolsets present on those platforms. Do they now? I'm inclined to try them out again because I'm a bit skeptical of that comment, as least in how it applies to this discussion. For example, does Mono-D allow to seamlessly create a crossplatform solution with a D project interacting with a C project (and/or the opposite). And what exactly seamlessly means here, what is offered in Mono-D that couldn't be done in DDT? -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 19/03/2015 15:55, Trent Forkert wrote:
On Thursday, 19 March 2015 at 15:14:09 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
On 19/03/2015 14:45, Trent Forkert wrote:
It seems you are right that it *is* limited, but it shouldn't be. CMake
emits include/import paths into the project structure. I had thought it
emitted into .project, but evidently emits into .cproject. If DDT
supported a .dproject I could also emit, I could get it to work.
DDT does support a .dproject ... it's called dub.json ! ;)
I'm dead serious here though. Why would I invent my own file format to
describe source folders and include/imports paths when dub.json does
that already??
1. I don't consider an XML configuration to be your own file format
Err.., but it is. XML is just syntax, you still have the semantics of
what that data means to be defined. Just as learning XML doesn't mean
you know how to properly read/write HTML5! (Maybe there is a better term
than file format, but regardless I think my comment was clear.
2. For the very reason that started this entire conversation. Not
everybody *wants* to use dub. Not everybody *can* use dub. So it doesn't
make sense for DDT to force dub.
At the time of this message of yours, you didn't offer any concrete,
*technical* reasons of why dub shouldn't be used. Saying one doesn't
*want* to use dub is not a valid reason at all. Saying you can't,
without saying why, is no valid reason either.
It would be silly to use anything else.
VisualD has done pretty well for itself.
And is that a full-featured integration, or does it have significant
limitations? You see, before DUB was, DDT did have it's own `.dproject`
of sorts ('.buildpath' for those who remember), and it's own basic
builder. But that integration was very basic and had severe limitations.
What I'm wondering is how good the VisualD on is then. Unfortunately I
can't easily check it out myself because if the point here is to check
C/C++ I'd probably have to install the commercial version of Visual
Studio to try it out.
--
Bruno Medeiros
https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 20/03/2015 05:30, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 20 March 2015 at 01:14, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 19/03/2015 14:45, Trent Forkert wrote: On Thursday, 19 March 2015 at 11:18:29 UTC, Dicebot wrote: Semantics analysis you can get by simply opening .d file in CDT project is very limited compared to opening dub project because it can't know the import paths for dependencies or pretty much anything about project structure apart from opened file. This isn't much. Exactly. It seems you are right that it *is* limited, but it shouldn't be. CMake emits include/import paths into the project structure. I had thought it emitted into .project, but evidently emits into .cproject. If DDT supported a .dproject I could also emit, I could get it to work. DDT does support a .dproject ... it's called dub.json ! ;) I'm dead serious here though. Why would I invent my own file format to describe source folders and include/imports paths when dub.json does that already?? It would be silly to use anything else. If you absolutely don't want to use DUB to build things, there are ways to disable the DUB builder, as mentioned before in this thread, and this way you'll use dub.json merely to describe the import path structure of the D project. I would imagine that if you had complete control over the project description and build process, it would be much easier to integrate with other components in Eclipse? Of course, I have no idea whether that's true or not. But I will hazard a guess that using dub in this way must make it harder for you to interact with CDT/java tools than otherwise? There's no plans ATM to integrate with CDT itself. (I don't even know what integration with java tools would mean here) Even for CDT, I don't see what much would there be to integrate, other than the build system. It would also be really nice to have a UI with tick boxes and select boxes for all the relevant build settings like CDT. Yeah, true. Even if using DUB, it would be nice to have UI to control the settings in dub.json, but that's a fair amount of work for little gain, so down in the priority list. -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 12:51:36 +, Bruno Medeiros via
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:
At the time of this message of yours, you didn't offer any concrete,
*technical* reasons of why dub shouldn't be used. Saying one doesn't
*want* to use dub is not a valid reason at all. Saying you can't,
without saying why, is no valid reason either.
Can dub build multiple libraries in the same project? Different flags to
different source files? Running a Python script to generate D code?
And is that a full-featured integration, or does it have significant
limitations? You see, before DUB was, DDT did have it's own `.dproject`
of sorts ('.buildpath' for those who remember), and it's own basic
builder. But that integration was very basic and had severe limitations.
With CMake, you don't need to do the build steps in DDT; Eclipse already
knows how to run an external build tool just fine.
What I'm wondering is how good the VisualD on is then. Unfortunately I
can't easily check it out myself because if the point here is to check
C/C++ I'd probably have to install the commercial version of Visual
Studio to try it out.
VS2013 Community Edition should work.
--Ben
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 20/03/2015 18:07, Trent Forkert wrote: And I don't understand why it is not acceptable. * Because it is not guaranteed to be there. For instance, I don't have dub on my system That's the lamest reason ever. Why is that an issue? Just install it if it is not installed. To me, that's akin to saying DDT shouldn't have a requirement of the Java VM! * Because anybody not using dub should not be required to use dub. This is dlang, not dublang * Because I just want to tell Eclipse about the project, there is no need to involve dub * Because the user said so These are basically all the same reason: me no want to use dub!. Well, you're free not to use DDT either! Seriously, I don't understand the *gripe* here: DUB offers a service, a functionality, that is not offered elsewhere (for D at least): a package management system, for source packages. And this is an important functionality for language ecosystems, because it is so damn useful!! That's why nearly all modern language have a source-package manager (Rust - Cargo, Ruby - rpm, Go - `go get/install`, Java - Maven/OSGi), all of them integrated with a build tool. I hope your experience/mindset has not been too tainted with archaic C/C++ paradigms that you fail to see this. D actually lags behind these languages in that DUB is not an official part of the language/toolchain. Although from what I recall there are plans to make DUB included as part of the DMD installation, so that would change. * Because it is at odds with C/C++ integration, which is an H1 priority This is the only reason with some credence. However, *not using dub* doesn't makes DDT automatically integrate with C/C++, nor doesn't it even necessarily bring it any closer to that. A fair amount of work would still need to be done to properly support this scenario, I suspect. -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 14:04:30 +, Dicebot via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: If you mean separate compilation with different flags per module and linking into same binary - it is pretty much illegal in D and can only be done at own risk. I don't know if it is mentioned anyway on dlang.org but that is inevitable side-effect of how symbol emitting works. Makes sense for -fversion and the like (it would be nice if libraries exported the list of version symbols they had since it is basically ABI...), but not necessarily for things like SSE support where you want to do runtime detection and run the fastest version based on the running processor. You might need to compile foo.bar.sse3 and foo.bar.sse4 with different compiler flags. --Ben
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 23/03/2015 13:39, Ben Boeckel via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 12:51:36 +, Bruno Medeiros via
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:
At the time of this message of yours, you didn't offer any concrete,
*technical* reasons of why dub shouldn't be used. Saying one doesn't
*want* to use dub is not a valid reason at all. Saying you can't,
without saying why, is no valid reason either.
Can dub build multiple libraries in the same project?
Yes - use DUB sub-packages.
Different flags to different source files?
What dicebot said.
That looks like an invalid, abstraction-breaking thing to do
Running a Python script to generate D code?
Yes, in DUB you can run arbitrary external commands before and after the
D sources compilation.
And is that a full-featured integration, or does it have significant
limitations? You see, before DUB was, DDT did have it's own `.dproject`
of sorts ('.buildpath' for those who remember), and it's own basic
builder. But that integration was very basic and had severe limitations.
With CMake, you don't need to do the build steps in DDT; Eclipse already
knows how to run an external build tool just fine.
What I'm wondering is how good the VisualD on is then. Unfortunately I
can't easily check it out myself because if the point here is to check
C/C++ I'd probably have to install the commercial version of Visual
Studio to try it out.
VS2013 Community Edition should work.
--Ben
I thought about that - VS2013 Community Edition -, but it looks huge and
I don't want to install a bunch of library and stuff on my computer just
to try VisualD out. I'd do it in a virtual machine though, as its
worthwhile to check it out. But it will just have to wait until I get
around to it, I don't have a spare Windows VM or installation at the moment.
--
Bruno Medeiros
https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 20/03/2015 05:04, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 19 March 2015 at 07:49, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 17/03/2015 23:45, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: I just checked out DDT, and I noticed it seems to use DUB... _ Why this marriage? I was really hoping it would be a lot more like CDT (ie, raw and flexible). In the project configuration I just see the one DUB Options box. The comprehensive suite of build options CDT presents would be much nicer. It makes no sense for DDT to use anything else than DUB. At a minimum, DDT needs a way to describe projects: the source files that are part of the project, and which other projects are dependencies of said project. Other aspects of a projects that are good to be able to describe are: which build configurations the project supports, which executables are produced (if any), etc.. Now the reason DUB is used is that it's a bad paradigm for this description mechanism to be Eclipse/DDT specific. It's unequivocally much better to be Eclipse-independent, such that other tools (not just other IDEs, but even other command-line analysis tools) can understand D projects/bundles/packages just as well as DDT. It also saved me a lot of work. If I had to develop my own format to describe all these aspects, it would not be as good as DUB's, guaranteed! I reckon this is true for any other D IDE out there. I use Mono-D and VisualD extensively, and in lieu of those, I fallback to makefiles. Those certainly did make their own equivalent build systems matching the IDE's existing styles. Those IDE's integrate D nicely with the C/C++ experiences. We might have different notions of what as good as DUB's means then. Let's look at these two use cases: * Do those IDEs allow a project specifying a dependency on an D library, without having to download the library, or to configure the build settings for the library? And does doing so still make it possible to integrate with C/C++ projects? * Can you have a cross-plaftorm workspace/solution, and when building the D part of it, the IDE parses the error messages of the D compiler and reports then to the UI in the editor? DUB is insufficient for any of my projects, and sadly, that makes DDT insufficient for my projects too:( The problem with DUB is it's self-contained. My projects involve cross-language interaction, and the build environments can be complex. DUB can't express this. Why is it insufficient? You don't have to use DUB to the exclusion of everything else. Isn't the use of the preGenerateCommands (http://code.dlang.org/package-format#build-settings) enough to call these other build systems you use? I have no idea how Eclipse operates internally... and I shouldn't have to. Isn't that the point of an IDE? All I can say is that CDT works, and I don't know how. If DDT doesn't automatically work with it out of the box, then the IDE experience is kinda pointless (to me at least). If I have to fiddle with a build system by hand, then that undermines the whole point of the IDE as far as I'm concerned. C/C++ and D are related, and they must interoperate. It's the top of the D roadmap. If I'm an IDE user, I think that's more-or-less an admission that I don't understand build environments, and I don't want to. So from that perspective, I think it would be valuable work to make sure DDT and CDT understand eachother. Yes, it would be nice if DDT would automatically integrate with CDT, and handle this use case seamlessly (regardless of using DUB internally or not). But this would be complex work, for little gain. Let me go into detail. First of all, CDT works, and I don't know how: yeah, but CDT only had to concern himself with C/C++, no cross-language stuff. Like you said, DDT and DUB also works well if you stick to the D ecosystem only. If you put a cross-language requirement on DDT, you're actually asking more of DDT than CDT had to worry (which means more work, more complexity). CDT and VisualStudio are IDEs with big companies backing them, they both had multiple developers working on them, full-time, for many, many years now. DDT only has had me working on it, on a volunteer basis (although some of the work I do there, and in Goclipse and RustDT, is related to some commercial work I do). Still, it's just me ATM, so there is an order of magnitude of difference of manpower available. You can't expect the same level of completeness. Only the most critical/important features can be worked on (or simple to implement ones). Also, there is limited gain. Sure, C/C++ and D are related, but A) Not everyone in D world is that concerned with that scenario, C/C++ integration. B) More importantly, adding DDT integration with CDT, would only benefit users of DDTCDT combined, which is a fraction of 'C++ D' users. What about users (and you might be one) that at the end of day don't use DDT/CDT because you can't debug
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Monday, 23 March 2015 at 13:40:04 UTC, Ben Boeckel wrote: Different flags to different source files? If you mean separate compilation with different flags per module and linking into same binary - it is pretty much illegal in D and can only be done at own risk. I don't know if it is mentioned anyway on dlang.org but that is inevitable side-effect of how symbol emitting works.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 19/03/2015 16:02, Ben Boeckel via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: It might force to think of your build components in a more structured/componentized way, instead of the paradigm of building on a file by file basis, the `make` way. (I've only used make though, not cmake, so dunno how much this comment applies to the later) Building file-at-a-time is, for developers, on the whole faster than unity builds because you can parallelize it and only have to build what changed. CMake only really works with .d - .o rules (Java support bends this AFAIK due to restrictions in javac, but I vastly prefer -j8 over a single invokation). I think the issue of speed and parallellization is an orthogonal one: The build components should be structured in properly defined, self-contained, versioned libraries/bundles(*) - that can be built, and auto-tested on their own (obviously using the dependencies they require too). That should be the primary (top level) build unit of a build system. But, the way you build each bundle/component, is still up to the build system. You can build it on file-by-file sequentially, or parallelized, etc. I'm not familiar with CMake, so I don't know if it has any concept similar to this, but I suspect not. *: AKA packages in DUB and Ruby, crates in Rust. -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 14:25:22 +, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: Yes - use DUB sub-packages. Ah, had missed this. Different flags to different source files? What dicebot said. That looks like an invalid, abstraction-breaking thing to do Not all flags are -fversion or -I flags. Running a Python script to generate D code? Yes, in DUB you can run arbitrary external commands before and after the D sources compilation. But not in between? Basically, can you have a tool written in D built with the project and then used to generate code in the same project? --Ben
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Monday, 23 March 2015 at 15:30:43 UTC, Ben Boeckel wrote: On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 14:04:30 +, Dicebot via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: If you mean separate compilation with different flags per module and linking into same binary - it is pretty much illegal in D and can only be done at own risk. I don't know if it is mentioned anyway on dlang.org but that is inevitable side-effect of how symbol emitting works. Makes sense for -fversion and the like (it would be nice if libraries exported the list of version symbols they had since it is basically ABI...), but not necessarily for things like SSE support where you want to do runtime detection and run the fastest version based on the running processor. You might need to compile foo.bar.sse3 and foo.bar.sse4 with different compiler flags. I'd suggest to build such modules as separate static libraries (which is possible within dub). Risk remains but it at least becomes obvious for other developers that this needs care. Also parallel build of several static libraries should be generally faster than parallel builds of all modules 1-by-1 (overhead of single file compilation is huge because of redundant import analysis) Also don't forget that there are plenty of implicit versions that get added from compiler flags (like D_NoBoundsChecks or D_PIC).
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 2015-03-23 13:54, Bruno Medeiros wrote: There's no plans ATM to integrate with CDT itself. (I don't even know what integration with java tools would mean here) Even for CDT, I don't see what much would there be to integrate, other than the build system. I would guess he means using C(++) files and D files in the same project and the build system would just work. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 21:14:31 +0100, Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 2015-03-23 13:54, Bruno Medeiros wrote: There's no plans ATM to integrate with CDT itself. (I don't even know what integration with java tools would mean here) Even for CDT, I don't see what much would there be to integrate, other than the build system. I would guess he means using C(++) files and D files in the same project and the build system would just work. From what I understand[1] of Eclipse (which I admit isn't much from a user's PoV), it supports natures to be loaded which provide functionality. Now I have no idea how much work this is, but it would be nice to have a nature for D support (syntax highlighting, completion, etc.). If it includes dub, great, but it might be worth it to have a separate nature for that. CMake (and other theoretical tools) would then just add the D support nature to handle the D files and use the existing build support. Projects created through DDT itself could add the dub nature by default (FWIW, I don't think CDT generates CMake-based projects out of the box either). Basically, make DDT suitable for using it with other projects which don't use dub because it doesn't suit the upstream project whether it be because the project is more than some D code, YAML is preferred to JSON or whatever. Take my gunroar[2] repo for example. It's mainly D code, but there is some C and Java in the src/android directory. If one were working in Eclipse with it, it would be nice to support using CDT features for the C code, the native Java support for the Java code, DDT for the D code, and the build button to put it all together. --Ben [1]This is based on my experience where enabling the Android bits in an Eclipse project generated by CMake is to allow users to add natures to the generated .project file using the ECLIPSE_EXTRA_NATURES global property. [2]https://github.com/mathstuf/abagames-gunroar
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 23 March 2015 at 22:39, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 20/03/2015 04:12, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On 19 March 2015 at 07:12, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 18/03/2015 00:12, Trent Forkert wrote: Unless something has changed recently, it shouldn't require dub. Last time I checked, my CMake work[1] could still generate projects for Eclipse from a D codebase, using Makefiles or Ninja. Not that that helps if you are creating a project from an Eclipse Wizard, which I haven't done in a long time. [1] https://github.com/trentforkert/cmake What kind of Eclipse projects does it generate? If it generates CDT projects, it's not really much help as CDT doesn't understand D (duh), and DDT doesn't work with CDT projects (also duh). Why is that 'duh'? I would expect nothing less than for DDT and CDT to interact comprehensively. Fair enough on that last 'duh', it could have been that DDT integrated with CDT. VisualD and Mono-D interact extensively with the existing C/C++ toolsets present on those platforms. Do they now? I'm inclined to try them out again because I'm a bit skeptical of that comment, as least in how it applies to this discussion. I use those IDE's every day, and all my projects are C/C++ engine/ibs and D frontend code. In Visual-D you can even press F12 (go to definition) on an extern(C) symbol in your D code, and it will jump to the .cpp file where it's defined. For example, does Mono-D allow to seamlessly create a crossplatform solution with a D project interacting with a C project (and/or the opposite). Absolutely, if it didn't, it wouldn't be useful (to me). And what exactly seamlessly means here, what is offered in Mono-D that couldn't be done in DDT? Automatic linking between sibling libs within a solution, referencing of symbols between the languages/projects, automatic rebuild dependencies between sibling projects. I'm sure it could all be done in DDT. I'm just saying that as an end-user I would expect that level of interoperation with CDT and no less. I haven't tested those things, they may already work.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Thursday, 19 March 2015 at 14:45:08 UTC, Trent Forkert wrote: On Thursday, 19 March 2015 at 11:18:29 UTC, Dicebot wrote: I call dub from makefile rules and feel pretty comfortable about such pattern (apart from being not-so-portable compared to raw dub). And building anything via IDE is just asking for trouble :) I use Vim myself, but I think people who use IDEs would like to, well, use IDEs. I wasn't referring to the vim vs IDE holy debate. I often use IDE myself but never use interal build systems tied to IDE - mostly for portability reasons. It is good to know that your project will always be built the same way - on local development box, in packaging script, on headless CI box. Semantics analysis you can get by simply opening .d file in CDT project is very limited compared to opening dub project because it can't know the import paths for dependencies or pretty much anything about project structure apart from opened file. This isn't much. It seems you are right that it *is* limited, but it shouldn't be. CMake emits include/import paths into the project structure. I had thought it emitted into .project, but evidently emits into .cproject. If DDT supported a .dproject I could also emit, I could get it to work. .dproject is exactly dub.json I don't really understand the part about putting paths to .project though - how it can possibly put something that is language specific there?
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Friday, 20 March 2015 at 14:36:51 UTC, Dicebot wrote: I wasn't referring to the vim vs IDE holy debate. I often use IDE myself but never use interal build systems tied to IDE - mostly for portability reasons. It is good to know that your project will always be built the same way - on local development box, in packaging script, on headless CI box. Which is one of the reasons I use CMake ^_^. It ensures the build button in your IDE behaves the same as make, regardless of which box the code is built on. Semantics analysis you can get by simply opening .d file in CDT project is very limited compared to opening dub project because it can't know the import paths for dependencies or pretty much anything about project structure apart from opened file. This isn't much. It seems you are right that it *is* limited, but it shouldn't be. CMake emits include/import paths into the project structure. I had thought it emitted into .project, but evidently emits into .cproject. If DDT supported a .dproject I could also emit, I could get it to work. .dproject is exactly dub.json As I said in my response to Bruno earlier, this still requires dub for things to work, which isn't an acceptable solution. A real .dproject would not require tools outside of Eclipse/DDT to function, and would preferably be similar to .project and .cproject. I don't really understand the part about putting paths to .project though That was a misunderstanding of Eclipse internals on my part. When the basic case of completing symbols from phobos worked, I just assumed that those include directories were being written to a portable place, since I hadn't done anything special for Eclipse project generation. how it can possibly put something that is language specific there? Include directories are not language specific, at least not in CMake.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Friday, 20 March 2015 at 15:47:09 UTC, Trent Forkert wrote: On Friday, 20 March 2015 at 14:36:51 UTC, Dicebot wrote: I wasn't referring to the vim vs IDE holy debate. I often use IDE myself but never use interal build systems tied to IDE - mostly for portability reasons. It is good to know that your project will always be built the same way - on local development box, in packaging script, on headless CI box. Which is one of the reasons I use CMake ^_^. It ensures the build button in your IDE behaves the same as make, regardless of which box the code is built on. It is _supposed_ to be the same, but not necessarily is. Bugs in CMake generators are not impossible. Semantics analysis you can get by simply opening .d file in CDT project is very limited compared to opening dub project because it can't know the import paths for dependencies or pretty much anything about project structure apart from opened file. This isn't much. It seems you are right that it *is* limited, but it shouldn't be. CMake emits include/import paths into the project structure. I had thought it emitted into .project, but evidently emits into .cproject. If DDT supported a .dproject I could also emit, I could get it to work. .dproject is exactly dub.json As I said in my response to Bruno earlier, this still requires dub for things to work, which isn't an acceptable solution. A real .dproject would not require tools outside of Eclipse/DDT to function, and would preferably be similar to .project and .cproject. And I don't understand why it is not acceptable. dub is de-factor part of standard compiler toolchain for D. It is developed as D-Programming-Language organization project and planned for eventual distribution with compiler. Saying that is unacceptable as dependency is similar to saying that Phobos is unacceptable as dependency. how it can possibly put something that is language specific there? Include directories are not language specific, at least not in CMake. Sounds like design mistake to me. There is nothing similar between include directories in C and import paths in D. Even within D -J paths and -I paths need to be treated differently.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Friday, 20 March 2015 at 15:52:18 UTC, Dicebot wrote: It is _supposed_ to be the same, but not necessarily is. Bugs in CMake generators are not impossible. Of course not, but I prefer a build system that works 99.99% of the time regardless of where it is used over a build system that can only be used on one machine or software stack. And I don't understand why it is not acceptable. * Because it is not guaranteed to be there. For instance, I don't have dub on my system * Because anybody not using dub should not be required to use dub. This is dlang, not dublang * Because it is at odds with C/C++ integration, which is an H1 priority * Because I just want to tell Eclipse about the project, there is no need to involve dub * Because the user said so dub is de-factor part of standard compiler toolchain for D. No it isn't. Neither is rdmd. Nor is make part of the standard compiler toolchain for C. When CDT uses make it does so *because it was told to*. Same with ninja. VisualStudio project generation doesn't use makefiles, because it is generating a VisualStudio project. And the fact that a whole bunch of abandoned single-module D libraries use dub is irrelevant when people like me, Manu, etc are working on larger, more complicated projects and say (repeatedly!!) that dub doesn't meet our needs. It is developed as D-Programming-Language organization project and planned for eventual distribution with compiler. rdmd is already distributed with dmd. Is it now a required part of the build process for all projects? VisualD is also developed under D-Programming-Language. Is it now required as well? Why isn't DDT using a .visualdproj? Saying that is unacceptable as dependency is similar to saying that Phobos is unacceptable as dependency. I'm not saying Phobos is unacceptable, but there are those that do. However, phobos is a library, not a build tool. Apples, oranges, etc. Include directories are not language specific, at least not in CMake. Sounds like design mistake to me. There is nothing similar between include directories in C and import paths in D. It's a list of directories. Sure, the compilers might do different things with the directories, but I've never encountered any harm from there just being a single list of directories to look for includes/imports in. Even within D -J paths and -I paths need to be treated differently. My fork handles -J paths separately from -I paths: include_directories(foo) # -Ifoo include_directories(TEXT bar) # -Jbar Similarly, CMake also handles regular vs system include paths for C/C++ compilers: include_directories(SYSTEM baz) # -isystem baz However, D doesn't have a -isystem, so SYSTEM is effectively ignored when producing the flags for a D compiler.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Wednesday, 18 March 2015 at 22:32:06 UTC, Trent Forkert wrote: On Wednesday, 18 March 2015 at 21:49:17 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote: Why is it insufficient? You don't have to use DUB to the exclusion of everything else. Isn't the use of the preGenerateCommands (http://code.dlang.org/package-format#build-settings) enough to call these other build systems you use? You're joking, right? The only sensible way to use multiple languages in the same project is to use the same build system for them. Anything else is way too fragile and hackish. Arbitrary, contrived example (though not entirely unrealistic): * a C(++) executable needs a static D library * Said D library in turn uses a C(++) library * All three of these are built as components of the same project So now I need a weird tangled mess of build systems calling each other back and forth. Dub really doesn't pull its weight here. I call dub from makefile rules and feel pretty comfortable about such pattern (apart from being not-so-portable compared to raw dub). And building anything via IDE is just asking for trouble :) Semantics analysis you can get by simply opening .d file in CDT project is very limited compared to opening dub project because it can't know the import paths for dependencies or pretty much anything about project structure apart from opened file. This isn't much.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 20 March 2015 at 01:31, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 19/03/2015 11:18, Dicebot wrote: On Wednesday, 18 March 2015 at 22:32:06 UTC, Trent Forkert wrote: Arbitrary, contrived example (though not entirely unrealistic): * a C(++) executable needs a static D library * Said D library in turn uses a C(++) library * All three of these are built as components of the same project So now I need a weird tangled mess of build systems calling each other back and forth. Dub really doesn't pull its weight here. I call dub from makefile rules and feel pretty comfortable about such pattern (apart from being not-so-portable compared to raw dub). And building anything via IDE is just asking for trouble :) Indeed, I reckon in these more complex examples, you'd call DUB from make/cmake/whatever. DUB would be in charge of building the D library aspect/component of that whole project. I don't see why this would not be possible, or otherwise why it would be a tangled messed. Pushing variables, lib paths, include paths, etc around immediately comes to mind. It might force to think of your build components in a more structured/componentized way, instead of the paradigm of building on a file by file basis, the `make` way. (I've only used make though, not cmake, so dunno how much this comment applies to the later) In premake, D projects are emit as a single invocation of the compiler given all source files at once, and this works seamlessly with C/C++ projects which are done in the traditional file-by-file way. VisualD and Mono-D also perform D compilation in single step, while interoperating with C compilation in the traditional way.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 20 March 2015 at 00:45, Trent Forkert via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On Thursday, 19 March 2015 at 11:18:29 UTC, Dicebot wrote: I call dub from makefile rules and feel pretty comfortable about such pattern (apart from being not-so-portable compared to raw dub). And building anything via IDE is just asking for trouble :) I use Vim myself, but I think people who use IDEs would like to, well, use IDEs. Semantics analysis you can get by simply opening .d file in CDT project is very limited compared to opening dub project because it can't know the import paths for dependencies or pretty much anything about project structure apart from opened file. This isn't much. It seems you are right that it *is* limited, but it shouldn't be. CMake emits include/import paths into the project structure. I had thought it emitted into .project, but evidently emits into .cproject. If DDT supported a .dproject I could also emit, I could get it to work. Precisely, I was expecting a .dproject file to appear, but it didn't. I also maintain the D (and Eclipse) support for premake (like cmake), but I can't support D in Eclipse like C/C++ as it is.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 19 March 2015 at 07:49, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 17/03/2015 23:45, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: I just checked out DDT, and I noticed it seems to use DUB... _ Why this marriage? I was really hoping it would be a lot more like CDT (ie, raw and flexible). In the project configuration I just see the one DUB Options box. The comprehensive suite of build options CDT presents would be much nicer. It makes no sense for DDT to use anything else than DUB. At a minimum, DDT needs a way to describe projects: the source files that are part of the project, and which other projects are dependencies of said project. Other aspects of a projects that are good to be able to describe are: which build configurations the project supports, which executables are produced (if any), etc.. Now the reason DUB is used is that it's a bad paradigm for this description mechanism to be Eclipse/DDT specific. It's unequivocally much better to be Eclipse-independent, such that other tools (not just other IDEs, but even other command-line analysis tools) can understand D projects/bundles/packages just as well as DDT. It also saved me a lot of work. If I had to develop my own format to describe all these aspects, it would not be as good as DUB's, guaranteed! I reckon this is true for any other D IDE out there. I use Mono-D and VisualD extensively, and in lieu of those, I fallback to makefiles. Those certainly did make their own equivalent build systems matching the IDE's existing styles. Those IDE's integrate D nicely with the C/C++ experiences. DUB is insufficient for any of my projects, and sadly, that makes DDT insufficient for my projects too:( The problem with DUB is it's self-contained. My projects involve cross-language interaction, and the build environments can be complex. DUB can't express this. Why is it insufficient? You don't have to use DUB to the exclusion of everything else. Isn't the use of the preGenerateCommands (http://code.dlang.org/package-format#build-settings) enough to call these other build systems you use? I have no idea how Eclipse operates internally... and I shouldn't have to. Isn't that the point of an IDE? All I can say is that CDT works, and I don't know how. If DDT doesn't automatically work with it out of the box, then the IDE experience is kinda pointless (to me at least). If I have to fiddle with a build system by hand, then that undermines the whole point of the IDE as far as I'm concerned. C/C++ and D are related, and they must interoperate. It's the top of the D roadmap. If I'm an IDE user, I think that's more-or-less an admission that I don't understand build environments, and I don't want to. So from that perspective, I think it would be valuable work to make sure DDT and CDT understand eachother. The only problem so far is that DDT doesn't support mutiple build configurations, but that's a DDT limitation, not a DUB one. You can also disable the DUB builder in DDT, as albatroz mentioned, however that isn't ideal since you won't get the compiler build errors reported back to Eclipse (DDT only has parsing errors built-in, other errors come externally, from the compiler.). There should be a way to integrate DUB with your build environment. There may very well be, but it would seem to be more work than not, and added complexity and for the cost of additional work doesn't make for a good sales pitch :) As far as I can tell, dub is good for self-contained D apps, and that's about it. Beyond that, there are much simpler solutions, and that includes IDE support.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 19 March 2015 at 07:12, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 18/03/2015 00:12, Trent Forkert wrote: Unless something has changed recently, it shouldn't require dub. Last time I checked, my CMake work[1] could still generate projects for Eclipse from a D codebase, using Makefiles or Ninja. Not that that helps if you are creating a project from an Eclipse Wizard, which I haven't done in a long time. [1] https://github.com/trentforkert/cmake What kind of Eclipse projects does it generate? If it generates CDT projects, it's not really much help as CDT doesn't understand D (duh), and DDT doesn't work with CDT projects (also duh). Why is that 'duh'? I would expect nothing less than for DDT and CDT to interact comprehensively. VisualD and Mono-D interact extensively with the existing C/C++ toolsets present on those platforms.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 20 March 2015 at 01:14, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 19/03/2015 14:45, Trent Forkert wrote: On Thursday, 19 March 2015 at 11:18:29 UTC, Dicebot wrote: Semantics analysis you can get by simply opening .d file in CDT project is very limited compared to opening dub project because it can't know the import paths for dependencies or pretty much anything about project structure apart from opened file. This isn't much. Exactly. It seems you are right that it *is* limited, but it shouldn't be. CMake emits include/import paths into the project structure. I had thought it emitted into .project, but evidently emits into .cproject. If DDT supported a .dproject I could also emit, I could get it to work. DDT does support a .dproject ... it's called dub.json ! ;) I'm dead serious here though. Why would I invent my own file format to describe source folders and include/imports paths when dub.json does that already?? It would be silly to use anything else. If you absolutely don't want to use DUB to build things, there are ways to disable the DUB builder, as mentioned before in this thread, and this way you'll use dub.json merely to describe the import path structure of the D project. I would imagine that if you had complete control over the project description and build process, it would be much easier to integrate with other components in Eclipse? Of course, I have no idea whether that's true or not. But I will hazard a guess that using dub in this way must make it harder for you to interact with CDT/java tools than otherwise? It would also be really nice to have a UI with tick boxes and select boxes for all the relevant build settings like CDT.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Thursday, 19 March 2015 at 11:18:29 UTC, Dicebot wrote: I call dub from makefile rules and feel pretty comfortable about such pattern (apart from being not-so-portable compared to raw dub). And building anything via IDE is just asking for trouble :) I use Vim myself, but I think people who use IDEs would like to, well, use IDEs. Semantics analysis you can get by simply opening .d file in CDT project is very limited compared to opening dub project because it can't know the import paths for dependencies or pretty much anything about project structure apart from opened file. This isn't much. It seems you are right that it *is* limited, but it shouldn't be. CMake emits include/import paths into the project structure. I had thought it emitted into .project, but evidently emits into .cproject. If DDT supported a .dproject I could also emit, I could get it to work.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 18/03/2015 22:09, Trent Forkert wrote: On Wednesday, 18 March 2015 at 21:12:11 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote: What kind of Eclipse projects does it generate? CDT. Anything else would prevent it from supporting multi-language projects, and thus turn it into yet another crappy monolingual NIHS tool, and thus useless for me (and Manu). If it generates CDT projects, it's not really much help as CDT doesn't understand D (duh), Nor does it need to. The project builds with either Make or Ninja, and Eclipse doesn't even care that it is building D code, and will build successfully even if you don't have DDT installed. and DDT doesn't work with CDT projects (also duh). Not sure what you mean by that. Installing DDT allows Eclipse to see *.d files (in any project, DDT, CDT or otherwise) as D files that will be opened in Eclipse's editor with syntax highlighting, completion, etc. Without DDT, Eclipse opens D files in an external editor. I just double checked, this all still works as I was expecting it to. When I said it's not really much help, I didn't mean for building: I meant for code completion and other semantic functionality. A CDT project description means nothing for DDT, and as such, code completion and other semantic functionality won't work properly (you will get code completion for the standard library, and for symbols of the .d file you opened, but any other imports/modules will not be found). -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Thursday, 19 March 2015 at 15:14:09 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote: On 19/03/2015 14:45, Trent Forkert wrote: It seems you are right that it *is* limited, but it shouldn't be. CMake emits include/import paths into the project structure. I had thought it emitted into .project, but evidently emits into .cproject. If DDT supported a .dproject I could also emit, I could get it to work. DDT does support a .dproject ... it's called dub.json ! ;) I'm dead serious here though. Why would I invent my own file format to describe source folders and include/imports paths when dub.json does that already?? 1. I don't consider an XML configuration to be your own file format 2. For the very reason that started this entire conversation. Not everybody *wants* to use dub. Not everybody *can* use dub. So it doesn't make sense for DDT to force dub. It would be silly to use anything else. VisualD has done pretty well for itself. If you absolutely don't want to use DUB to build things, there are ways to disable the DUB builder, as mentioned before in this thread, and this way you'll use dub.json merely to describe the import path structure of the D project. This still requires dub for things to work, which isn't an acceptable solution. Using XML the way CDT does also allows something else: GUI configuration. Users could then adjust build parameters via a GUI the way IDE users would expect to be able to, instead of editing a configuration file for a tool they aren't even using.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 15:31:49 +, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: Indeed, I reckon in these more complex examples, you'd call DUB from make/cmake/whatever. DUB would be in charge of building the D library aspect/component of that whole project. I don't see why this would not be possible, or otherwise why it would be a tangled messed. If dub needs things built earlier and then the D code is used by CMake, dependency tracking becomes very manual; it's better to have one tool know the entire build structure here. It might force to think of your build components in a more structured/componentized way, instead of the paradigm of building on a file by file basis, the `make` way. (I've only used make though, not cmake, so dunno how much this comment applies to the later) Building file-at-a-time is, for developers, on the whole faster than unity builds because you can parallelize it and only have to build what changed. CMake only really works with .d - .o rules (Java support bends this AFAIK due to restrictions in javac, but I vastly prefer -j8 over a single invokation). --Ben
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 19/03/2015 14:45, Trent Forkert wrote: On Thursday, 19 March 2015 at 11:18:29 UTC, Dicebot wrote: Semantics analysis you can get by simply opening .d file in CDT project is very limited compared to opening dub project because it can't know the import paths for dependencies or pretty much anything about project structure apart from opened file. This isn't much. Exactly. It seems you are right that it *is* limited, but it shouldn't be. CMake emits include/import paths into the project structure. I had thought it emitted into .project, but evidently emits into .cproject. If DDT supported a .dproject I could also emit, I could get it to work. DDT does support a .dproject ... it's called dub.json ! ;) I'm dead serious here though. Why would I invent my own file format to describe source folders and include/imports paths when dub.json does that already?? It would be silly to use anything else. If you absolutely don't want to use DUB to build things, there are ways to disable the DUB builder, as mentioned before in this thread, and this way you'll use dub.json merely to describe the import path structure of the D project. -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 19/03/2015 11:18, Dicebot wrote: On Wednesday, 18 March 2015 at 22:32:06 UTC, Trent Forkert wrote: Arbitrary, contrived example (though not entirely unrealistic): * a C(++) executable needs a static D library * Said D library in turn uses a C(++) library * All three of these are built as components of the same project So now I need a weird tangled mess of build systems calling each other back and forth. Dub really doesn't pull its weight here. I call dub from makefile rules and feel pretty comfortable about such pattern (apart from being not-so-portable compared to raw dub). And building anything via IDE is just asking for trouble :) Indeed, I reckon in these more complex examples, you'd call DUB from make/cmake/whatever. DUB would be in charge of building the D library aspect/component of that whole project. I don't see why this would not be possible, or otherwise why it would be a tangled messed. It might force to think of your build components in a more structured/componentized way, instead of the paradigm of building on a file by file basis, the `make` way. (I've only used make though, not cmake, so dunno how much this comment applies to the later) -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
Just go to project Properties, Builders, de-select DUB Build and add any another build option or script you need. On Tuesday, 17 March 2015 at 23:54:06 UTC, Manu wrote: I just checked out DDT, and I noticed it seems to use DUB... _
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 22:32:05 +, Trent Forkert via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: The only sensible way to use multiple languages in the same project is to use the same build system for them. Anything else is way too fragile and hackish. Arbitrary, contrived example (though not entirely unrealistic): * a C(++) executable needs a static D library * Said D library in turn uses a C(++) library * All three of these are built as components of the same project So now I need a weird tangled mess of build systems calling each other back and forth. Dub really doesn't pull its weight here. FWIW, no language-specific build system I've ever come across does anything better than meh (and that's just one; the rest are basically nope, can't do it) for support outside of their language or compiling C code against the core runtime/libraries. Then toss in cross-compiling of the C bits and all of them just fall apart. You really need something like Make, Ninja, or another generic build tool at the bottom to do things properly with how different dependencies can be constructed in a complex codebase; you can't really bake all of the knowledge required for the general cases in every language's tools. --Ben
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Wednesday, 18 March 2015 at 21:49:17 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote: Why is it insufficient? You don't have to use DUB to the exclusion of everything else. Isn't the use of the preGenerateCommands (http://code.dlang.org/package-format#build-settings) enough to call these other build systems you use? You're joking, right? The only sensible way to use multiple languages in the same project is to use the same build system for them. Anything else is way too fragile and hackish. Arbitrary, contrived example (though not entirely unrealistic): * a C(++) executable needs a static D library * Said D library in turn uses a C(++) library * All three of these are built as components of the same project So now I need a weird tangled mess of build systems calling each other back and forth. Dub really doesn't pull its weight here.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Wednesday, 18 March 2015 at 21:12:11 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote: What kind of Eclipse projects does it generate? CDT. Anything else would prevent it from supporting multi-language projects, and thus turn it into yet another crappy monolingual NIHS tool, and thus useless for me (and Manu). If it generates CDT projects, it's not really much help as CDT doesn't understand D (duh), Nor does it need to. The project builds with either Make or Ninja, and Eclipse doesn't even care that it is building D code, and will build successfully even if you don't have DDT installed. and DDT doesn't work with CDT projects (also duh). Not sure what you mean by that. Installing DDT allows Eclipse to see *.d files (in any project, DDT, CDT or otherwise) as D files that will be opened in Eclipse's editor with syntax highlighting, completion, etc. Without DDT, Eclipse opens D files in an external editor. I just double checked, this all still works as I was expecting it to.
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 21:12:07 +, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: What kind of Eclipse projects does it generate? If it generates CDT projects, it's not really much help as CDT doesn't understand D (duh), and DDT doesn't work with CDT projects (also duh). It should add DDT support[1] for D projects. --Ben [1]https://github.com/trentforkert/cmake/blob/d_support3/Source/cmExtraEclipseCDT4Generator.cxx#L70-L73
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 18/03/2015 00:12, Trent Forkert wrote: Unless something has changed recently, it shouldn't require dub. Last time I checked, my CMake work[1] could still generate projects for Eclipse from a D codebase, using Makefiles or Ninja. Not that that helps if you are creating a project from an Eclipse Wizard, which I haven't done in a long time. [1] https://github.com/trentforkert/cmake What kind of Eclipse projects does it generate? If it generates CDT projects, it's not really much help as CDT doesn't understand D (duh), and DDT doesn't work with CDT projects (also duh). -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 17/03/2015 23:45, Manu via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: I also couldn't launch GDB and debug the example 'hello world' app under Windows. Are there more steps to make this work? If you're using DMD, that simply doesn't work at all. GDB doesn't understand any of the debug formats DMD outputs (COFF/MSVC or OMF), and it likely never will. GDC for Windows is not maintained. As LDC for Windows, I haven't tried it recently. Last time I tried it, debugging support wasn't working ( http://forum.dlang.org/post/qsttkqzbtnhyrogek...@forum.dlang.org ). However may be that has changed recently? I dunno about LDC itself, but I've tried the Rust compiler for Windows, and although a bit buggy, basic debugging support was working: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/RustDT/RustDT/master/documentation/screenshots/sample_debug.png So the same should be possible for LDC as well! Note: I try to collate this information in http://wiki.dlang.org/Debuggers , although perhaps Debugging support should listed by platform, instead of by compiler. If you absolutely must use DMD/MSVC toolchains, well there might be some hope int the future, since work is being done on LLDB such as to be able to debug MSVC executables: http://blog.llvm.org/2015/01/lldb-is-coming-to-windows.html (LLDB has an interface emulating GDB, and as such should integrate with Eclipse and other GDB UI frontends) -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Tuesday, 17 March 2015 at 23:54:06 UTC, Manu wrote: On 17 March 2015 at 06:00, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 06/03/2015 17:37, Bruno Medeiros wrote: A new version of DDT is out. Improvements to the semantic engine, important fixes: https://github.com/bruno-medeiros/DDT/releases/tag/Release_0.11.0 There has also been some big internal changes lately, so these latest releases might be a bit more buggy than usual. (as exemplified by the regression where code folding and quick-outline were broken :s - and shame on me for taking so long to notice that) A new release fixing a critical regression is out: https://github.com/bruno-medeiros/DDT/releases/tag/Release_0.11.1 -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros I just checked out DDT, and I noticed it seems to use DUB... _ Why this marriage? I was really hoping it would be a lot more like CDT (ie, raw and flexible). In the project configuration I just see the one DUB Options box. The comprehensive suite of build options CDT presents would be much nicer. DUB is insufficient for any of my projects, and sadly, that makes DDT insufficient for my projects too :( The problem with DUB is it's self-contained. My projects involve cross-language interaction, and the build environments can be complex. DUB can't express this. I also couldn't launch GDB and debug the example 'hello world' app under Windows. Are there more steps to make this work? Unless something has changed recently, it shouldn't require dub. Last time I checked, my CMake work[1] could still generate projects for Eclipse from a D codebase, using Makefiles or Ninja. Not that that helps if you are creating a project from an Eclipse Wizard, which I haven't done in a long time. [1] https://github.com/trentforkert/cmake
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 17 March 2015 at 06:00, Bruno Medeiros via Digitalmars-d-announce digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com wrote: On 06/03/2015 17:37, Bruno Medeiros wrote: A new version of DDT is out. Improvements to the semantic engine, important fixes: https://github.com/bruno-medeiros/DDT/releases/tag/Release_0.11.0 There has also been some big internal changes lately, so these latest releases might be a bit more buggy than usual. (as exemplified by the regression where code folding and quick-outline were broken :s - and shame on me for taking so long to notice that) A new release fixing a critical regression is out: https://github.com/bruno-medeiros/DDT/releases/tag/Release_0.11.1 -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros I just checked out DDT, and I noticed it seems to use DUB... _ Why this marriage? I was really hoping it would be a lot more like CDT (ie, raw and flexible). In the project configuration I just see the one DUB Options box. The comprehensive suite of build options CDT presents would be much nicer. DUB is insufficient for any of my projects, and sadly, that makes DDT insufficient for my projects too :( The problem with DUB is it's self-contained. My projects involve cross-language interaction, and the build environments can be complex. DUB can't express this. I also couldn't launch GDB and debug the example 'hello world' app under Windows. Are there more steps to make this work?
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 06/03/2015 17:37, Bruno Medeiros wrote: A new version of DDT is out. Improvements to the semantic engine, important fixes: https://github.com/bruno-medeiros/DDT/releases/tag/Release_0.11.0 There has also been some big internal changes lately, so these latest releases might be a bit more buggy than usual. (as exemplified by the regression where code folding and quick-outline were broken :s - and shame on me for taking so long to notice that) A new release fixing a critical regression is out: https://github.com/bruno-medeiros/DDT/releases/tag/Release_0.11.1 -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 06/03/2015 17:37, Bruno Medeiros wrote: A new version of DDT is out. Improvements to the semantic engine, important fixes: https://github.com/bruno-medeiros/DDT/releases/tag/Release_0.11.0 There has also been some big internal changes lately, so these latest releases might be a bit more buggy than usual. (as exemplified by the regression where code folding and quick-outline were broken :s - and shame on me for taking so long to notice that) Also fixed that this 0.11.0 version was being reported as 0.10.4 still. -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On 06/03/2015 18:48, wobbles wrote: On Friday, 6 March 2015 at 17:37:51 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote: A new version of DDT is out. Improvements to the semantic engine, important fixes: https://github.com/bruno-medeiros/DDT/releases/tag/Release_0.11.0 There has also been some big internal changes lately, so these latest releases might be a bit more buggy than usual. (as exemplified by the regression where code folding and quick-outline were broken :s - and shame on me for taking so long to notice that) This is great, thank you! Just to let you know, in release notice there is the text It is recommended that Recommend re-create project. Im guessing it is meant to be: It is recommended to re-create you're project. Yup, thx, fixed that. -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Friday, 6 March 2015 at 17:37:51 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote: A new version of DDT is out. Improvements to the semantic engine, important fixes: https://github.com/bruno-medeiros/DDT/releases/tag/Release_0.11.0 There has also been some big internal changes lately, so these latest releases might be a bit more buggy than usual. (as exemplified by the regression where code folding and quick-outline were broken :s - and shame on me for taking so long to notice that) This is great, thank you! Just to let you know, in release notice there is the text It is recommended that Recommend re-create project. Im guessing it is meant to be: It is recommended to re-create you're project.
DDT 0.11.0 released
A new version of DDT is out. Improvements to the semantic engine, important fixes: https://github.com/bruno-medeiros/DDT/releases/tag/Release_0.11.0 There has also been some big internal changes lately, so these latest releases might be a bit more buggy than usual. (as exemplified by the regression where code folding and quick-outline were broken :s - and shame on me for taking so long to notice that) -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: DDT 0.11.0 released
On Friday, 6 March 2015 at 17:37:51 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote: A new version of DDT is out. Improvements to the semantic engine, important fixes: https://github.com/bruno-medeiros/DDT/releases/tag/Release_0.11.0 There has also been some big internal changes lately, so these latest releases might be a bit more buggy than usual. (as exemplified by the regression where code folding and quick-outline were broken :s - and shame on me for taking so long to notice that) Thank you! DDT is actually the most convenient D IDE at the moment. P.S. Could I request a feature? a better support for dub subconfigurations (yep, I know, if I want something, then it's my fault that isn't implemented yet).
