Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
With what they know today, do you really think eBay would make the same investment again? So now all MA has to be done under 20/20 vision? Some business decisions go south. Imagine that! As I have said many times already, we're not discussing the shrewdness or gullibility of the acquirer, but the success of a company (to be acquired). Skype shareholders couldn't care less what eBay could/should have done. Their interest/responsibility is to their own company. If you recall there were multiple companies interested in Skype at the time. Skype did fine. (eBay not so well.) If you want to discuss how Meg Witman was sleep-walking in the last three years of her tenure at eBay, I'd be glad to. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
yeah.. I was thinking the same thing, and, in fact -- just to be sure I wasn't having a Sarah Palin moment -- forwarded the statement to someone who orchestrates such deals between the facebooks and the googles of the world, and he said, That doesn't make sense, and what it's trying to imply is inaccurate. On Sep 23, 2008, at 6:27 PM, Jared Spool wrote: On Sep 23, 2008, at 9:23 PM, Brett Lutchman wrote: Google has no plans on making an immediate profit off of the companies they absolve. They are buying out all major 'virtual domain' property and services. I have no idea what that actually means. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Apparently, not a disciple of Webster. Maybe, Maybe not, the English language has crumbled so much that many definitions have been lost. I'll explain. Absolve- You simply think it's forgiveness or remission of sin. The word actually means: To declare ownership. Long, long ago, not in a galaxy far, far away, the term 'Slave' was an actual job position. These days if I say slave, people immediately think of whites oppressing blacks. If you were to owe me a sum of money but couldn't pay back, you would either be thrown in jail, would have to borrow from someone else to pay me back, sell what you have to pay me back or you could serve me to pay off your debt to me. If you chose to be my servant, I would legally 'own' you as an employee. The term 'absolve' meant I'm taking ownership of you and acquiring your services in order for you to pay back what you owed me. Once the debt was paid off, you had 2 choices, you can either go back to being an independent person or you could enlist for another term as a slave, but this time you would be making a profit. Often times, the relationship of the borrower to the lender grew in these times that the borrower ended up staying with the lender and began to generate a profit. Nowadays, people assume absolve means being 'forgiven', but it actually doesnt. It simply meant you were paying your debt off with your services with an employee status. Same thing today, If I'm a big company and I buy you out, I'm buying your good and bad. I'm buying out your business, services and debt. I've absolved your corporation and everything you have accomplished to date. This is really not that big of a deal. Other words could be used instead of absolve. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Nowadays, people assume absolve means being 'forgiven', but it actually doesnt. And by people, you meant every dictionary. http://tinyurl.com/3kggqo Ok. Let's say absolve means to own in your galaxy. I still have no idea what you're talking about. Jared On Sep 24, 2008, at 5:41 AM, Brett Lutchman wrote: Apparently, not a disciple of Webster. Maybe, Maybe not, the English language has crumbled so much that many definitions have been lost. I'll explain. Absolve- You simply think it's forgiveness or remission of sin. The word actually means: To declare ownership. Long, long ago, not in a galaxy far, far away, the term 'Slave' was an actual job position. These days if I say slave, people immediately think of whites oppressing blacks. If you were to owe me a sum of money but couldn't pay back, you would either be thrown in jail, would have to borrow from someone else to pay me back, sell what you have to pay me back or you could serve me to pay off your debt to me. If you chose to be my servant, I would legally 'own' you as an employee. The term 'absolve' meant I'm taking ownership of you and acquiring your services in order for you to pay back what you owed me. Once the debt was paid off, you had 2 choices, you can either go back to being an independent person or you could enlist for another term as a slave, but this time you would be making a profit. Often times, the relationship of the borrower to the lender grew in these times that the borrower ended up staying with the lender and began to generate a profit. Nowadays, people assume absolve means being 'forgiven', but it actually doesnt. It simply meant you were paying your debt off with your services with an employee status. Same thing today, If I'm a big company and I buy you out, I'm buying your good and bad. I'm buying out your business, services and debt. I've absolved your corporation and everything you have accomplished to date. This is really not that big of a deal. Other words could be used instead of absolve. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Kontra wrote: With what they know today, do you really think eBay would make the same investment again? So now all MA has to be done under 20/20 vision? Some business decisions go south. Imagine that! Ok. So where is Facebook going? Is it purely a flip deal where Zuckerberg, et. al. are hoping that the inevitable MA acquirer doesn't do decent diligence? Or is there some semblance of a value statement they can talk to? Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Jared, Everything's OK so long as the music's still playing. 2008/9/24 Jared Spool [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Kontra wrote: With what they know today, do you really think eBay would make the same investment again? So now all MA has to be done under 20/20 vision? Some business decisions go south. Imagine that! Ok. So where is Facebook going? Is it purely a flip deal where Zuckerberg, et. al. are hoping that the inevitable MA acquirer doesn't do decent diligence? Or is there some semblance of a value statement they can talk to? Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Has anyone else read Amy Shuen's Web 2.0: A Strategy Guide and her discussion about Facebook and the the monetization of user generated value streams on social networks? For those interested - it does provide a good understanding about exactly why MS payed what they did for Facebook. On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 6:34 AM, Jared Spool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Kontra wrote: With what they know today, do you really think eBay would make the same investment again? So now all MA has to be done under 20/20 vision? Some business decisions go south. Imagine that! Ok. So where is Facebook going? Is it purely a flip deal where Zuckerberg, et. al. are hoping that the inevitable MA acquirer doesn't do decent diligence? Or is there some semblance of a value statement they can talk to? Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 24, 2008, at 6:47 AM, Will Evans wrote: Has anyone else read Amy Shuen's Web 2.0: A Strategy Guide and her discussion about Facebook and the the monetization of user generated value streams on social networks? For those interested - it does provide a good understanding about exactly why MS payed what they did for Facebook. I think Shuen's work is brilliant. However, all I see with the MS investment is a Google/Yahoo-acquisition blocker. Any attempts that Facebook has made to produce value beyond selling virtual gifts and poor-response CPM ads has been rebuffed by the users. I don't see how the value of the user relationships turns into capital for the business. It's possible I'm just dense about this and everyone else gets it. But to me, it feels a bit like the house of cards that's been holding up the mortgage biz for the past 6 years. Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
No - I agree that even while having read Shuen's book and understanding her economic model around user generated value streams - I agree that at least for facebook, they haven't found the model by which they can actually turn that value into cash flow - clearly, at least DaveM has stated - there is value to the members, and there is value in the network - but no business model seems to have emmerged (Can business models simply emerge from a primordial ooze?) Until a viable business model is conceived that can transform the value of the network and generate positive cash flow - it ain't really a business, or at least a viable one - and I think you are right on when you state that it may have been a strategic decision for MS (who can throw money away) to invest purely to block google - that actually makes sense. On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:06 AM, Jared Spool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 24, 2008, at 6:47 AM, Will Evans wrote: Has anyone else read Amy Shuen's Web 2.0: A Strategy Guide and her discussion about Facebook and the the monetization of user generated value streams on social networks? For those interested - it does provide a good understanding about exactly why MS payed what they did for Facebook. I think Shuen's work is brilliant. However, all I see with the MS investment is a Google/Yahoo-acquisition blocker. Any attempts that Facebook has made to produce value beyond selling virtual gifts and poor-response CPM ads has been rebuffed by the users. I don't see how the value of the user relationships turns into capital for the business. It's possible I'm just dense about this and everyone else gets it. But to me, it feels a bit like the house of cards that's been holding up the mortgage biz for the past 6 years. Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
ok. On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 6:31 AM, Jared Spool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nowadays, people assume absolve means being 'forgiven', but it actually doesnt. And by people, you meant every dictionary. http://tinyurl.com/3kggqo Ok. Let's say absolve means to own in your galaxy. I still have no idea what you're talking about. Jared On Sep 24, 2008, at 5:41 AM, Brett Lutchman wrote: Apparently, not a disciple of Webster. Maybe, Maybe not, the English language has crumbled so much that many definitions have been lost. I'll explain. Absolve- You simply think it's forgiveness or remission of sin. The word actually means: To declare ownership. Long, long ago, not in a galaxy far, far away, the term 'Slave' was an actual job position. These days if I say slave, people immediately think of whites oppressing blacks. If you were to owe me a sum of money but couldn't pay back, you would either be thrown in jail, would have to borrow from someone else to pay me back, sell what you have to pay me back or you could serve me to pay off your debt to me. If you chose to be my servant, I would legally 'own' you as an employee. The term 'absolve' meant I'm taking ownership of you and acquiring your services in order for you to pay back what you owed me. Once the debt was paid off, you had 2 choices, you can either go back to being an independent person or you could enlist for another term as a slave, but this time you would be making a profit. Often times, the relationship of the borrower to the lender grew in these times that the borrower ended up staying with the lender and began to generate a profit. Nowadays, people assume absolve means being 'forgiven', but it actually doesnt. It simply meant you were paying your debt off with your services with an employee status. Same thing today, If I'm a big company and I buy you out, I'm buying your good and bad. I'm buying out your business, services and debt. I've absolved your corporation and everything you have accomplished to date. This is really not that big of a deal. Other words could be used instead of absolve. -- Brett Lutchman Web Slinger. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
This is actually an issue I've been grappling with as it is deeply relevant to our industry. A lot of our work these days is done for companies basing their business plans on social networking and community building sites. This may be a small slice of the work available to IxD people, but it is a significant bit. Are we in fact nearing a watershed moment similar to the mortgage crisis (that Jared so appropriately sited) in which a lot of people will just wake up and go wait, there's no huge value in this, what are we doing? and thereby pull the carpet out from under a significant part of the web? Again, it gives me TulipMania worries: http://tinyurl.com/jo2l9 It's possible I'm just dense about this and everyone else gets it. But to me, it feels a bit like the house of cards that's been holding up the mortgage biz for the past 6 years. Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Ok. So where is Facebook going? The same place where lots of people (including VCs who couldn't be bothered with doing decent diligence then) looked at Google a few years ago and likely said, bleh, it's just another search engine, is there some semblance of a value statement they can talk to? And then that search engine was coupled to advertising to become the biggest wealth creation engine on the internets ever. Google extracts value out of mining network effects (PageRank) which is increasingly the primary source of revenue for smart companies. FaceBook has in just a few years managed to create the largest social network. If you don't think that's going to make FB shareholders happy one day, then just ignore it. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 24, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Kontra wrote: Google extracts value out of mining network effects (PageRank) which is increasingly the primary source of revenue for smart companies. FaceBook has in just a few years managed to create the largest social network. If you don't think that's going to make FB shareholders happy one day, then just ignore it. Yah, ok. You don't either. :) Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:47:11 -0400, Will wrote: Has anyone else read Amy Shuen's Web 2.0: A Strategy Guide and her discussion about Facebook and the the monetization of user generated value streams on social networks? For those interested - it does provide a good understanding about exactly why MS payed what they did for Facebook. I haven't, but some may also be interested in a book published in 1997, called Net Gain: Expanding Markets Through Virtual Communities. I think it was ahead of its time. http://tinyurl.com/42brtx *Nick Gassman - Usability and Standards Manager - http://ba.com * Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
What you've seen to-date is conditional success All FB needs is a SINGLE acquirer to purchase them. Just a single metric: one company to buy FB. Just like Skype with eBay, MySpace with News Corp, Bebo with AOL, etc. When Google bought YouTube it certainly wasn't profitable in any way and it had a huge copyright cloud over its head. Chad Hurley and Steve Chen had a $1.65 billion payday. YouTube STILL isn't profitable and is being sued for $1 billion. You think either Google or the YouTube folks are complaining? You think Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis are worried if Skype is a fad? You really think Bebo founders are crying over $850 million? (I may think Falco was a fool to pay that much for Bebo (or Witman for Skype, for that matter), but that is NOT the point. We're talking about a company's ability to get to payday, not if the acquirer was prudent. In that metric, whether it is 1998 or 2008, scale always matters. There are entities always willing to pay for scale. AND they don't have to use conventional metrics you cited to derive value out of that scale either. You're not going to get scale if your intention is solely to be profitable (37Signals) but you're not likely to get acquired unless you have scale. So your ability to get to that big payday is directly proportional to your ability to scale. FB has scale. You do the math. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Kontra, You're confusing the distinction between success for the individuals (founders), and the success of the *business*. I'm referring to the latter; the former is irrelevant to what I'm saying with respect to the business model. Regards Steve 2008/9/23 Kontra [EMAIL PROTECTED] What you've seen to-date is conditional success All FB needs is a SINGLE acquirer to purchase them. Just a single metric: one company to buy FB. Just like Skype with eBay, MySpace with News Corp, Bebo with AOL, etc. When Google bought YouTube it certainly wasn't profitable in any way and it had a huge copyright cloud over its head. Chad Hurley and Steve Chen had a $1.65 billion payday. YouTube STILL isn't profitable and is being sued for $1 billion. You think either Google or the YouTube folks are complaining? You think Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis are worried if Skype is a fad? You really think Bebo founders are crying over $850 million? (I may think Falco was a fool to pay that much for Bebo (or Witman for Skype, for that matter), but that is NOT the point. We're talking about a company's ability to get to payday, not if the acquirer was prudent. In that metric, whether it is 1998 or 2008, scale always matters. There are entities always willing to pay for scale. AND they don't have to use conventional metrics you cited to derive value out of that scale either. You're not going to get scale if your intention is solely to be profitable (37Signals) but you're not likely to get acquired unless you have scale. So your ability to get to that big payday is directly proportional to your ability to scale. FB has scale. You do the math. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- -- Steve 'Doc' Baty B.Sc (Maths), M.EC, MBA Principal Consultant Meld Consulting M: +61 417 061 292 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UX Statistics: http://uxstats.blogspot.com Member, UPA - www.upassoc.org Member, IA Institute - www.iainstitute.org Member, IxDA - www.ixda.org Contributor - UXMatters - www.uxmatters.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
You're confusing the distinction between success for the individuals (founders), and the success of the *business*. Founders I cited were obviously colorful shorthand for shareholders, as I have also specifically mentioned them. In fact, I went further to make the point: I bet the shareholders of your company (with our without a profitable business model) wouldn't mind seeing a $4 billion payoff day. It's the American way. Perhaps there's a parallel universe where business success means something other than shareholders in a company getting satisfaction, but I'm not living in it. Separating business success from shareholder success is so much gobbledygook, I'm afraid. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Kontra, Not entirely, no. However, at present what you're seeing is investment in the expectation of an increase in share price irrespective of the underlying value of the business. It's the financial equivalent of pass-the-parcel and hoping you're not left holding the bag. So yes, current shareholders might off-load their shares for more than they paid for them, but it doesn't answer the question about the fundamentals of the business. Sorry, but it just doesn't. Regards Steve 2008/9/23 Kontra [EMAIL PROTECTED] You're confusing the distinction between success for the individuals (founders), and the success of the *business*. Founders I cited were obviously colorful shorthand for shareholders, as I have also specifically mentioned them. In fact, I went further to make the point: I bet the shareholders of your company (with our without a profitable business model) wouldn't mind seeing a $4 billion payoff day. It's the American way. Perhaps there's a parallel universe where business success means something other than shareholders in a company getting satisfaction, but I'm not living in it. Separating business success from shareholder success is so much gobbledygook, I'm afraid. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Not entirely, no. However, at present what you're seeing is investment in the expectation of an increase in share price irrespective of the underlying value of the business. You're making gigantic assumptions here. It's perfectly OK to establish a company SIMPLY to sell it at the earliest profitable opportunity to another company. You can't walk a mile in the Valley without stumbling upon a business just so constructed. Now, does that immediately make them an MLM proposition? Who are you to tell founders and/or shareholders of a company how they should get to their payoff day? If the company was constructed to sell, then that's what it's going to focus on. That's Business 101. I have no idea what the founders and the subsequent shareholders of YouTube, Skype, MySpace, Bebo, etc actually wanted, but I'm fairly certain they are satisfied with what they have achieved. Google, eBay, News Corp, AOL didn't quite get their money's worth and couldn't make lemonade? How is that the fault of the acquired companies, as they got satisfaction? the fundamentals of the business... ...is what others are willing to pay for it, not for uninvolved parties to pontificate on. As I previously said, what success means to one company may not necessarily mean the same to an acquirer that may have entirely different metrics, concerns, business models, etc. Google, for example, doesn't focus on making money from services, and the vast majority of its revenue comes from advertising. So acquiring the world's biggest social network in FaceBook may mean, business wise, something different to Google than FB or some other company. Google may have entirely different capabilities of monetizing that network than FB. You may think FB's business fundamentals are not there, because you're narrowly stuck in FB-as-an-independent-company model, whereas Google may have far different ambitions with FB. You're seemingly blind to network effects, which is at the heart of many successful online businesses. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Kontra, There is an inherent relationship between a company's core offering, end user value, and profit. I believe the conversation was using profit as a measure of success. If the end game for the investors is merely further investment, yes they can cash out... but this is pretty similar to a pyramid scheme. If all that really happens is the final round of investors pay a lot for company that provides no end user value, then the company would hardly be considered a success. And we are talking about the success of the company, not the profiteering of the founders. Mark On Sep 23, 2008, at 4:24 AM, Kontra wrote: You're confusing the distinction between success for the individuals (founders), and the success of the *business*. Founders I cited were obviously colorful shorthand for shareholders, as I have also specifically mentioned them. In fact, I went further to make the point: I bet the shareholders of your company (with our without a profitable business model) wouldn't mind seeing a $4 billion payoff day. It's the American way. Perhaps there's a parallel universe where business success means something other than shareholders in a company getting satisfaction, but I'm not living in it. Separating business success from shareholder success is so much gobbledygook, I'm afraid. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Kontra, I'd hate to take up any more of your time pontificating about concepts and ideas to which I'm blind. I think we're a long way from the original point of this thread, so I'll respectfully agree to disagree and move on. Regards Steve 2008/9/23 Kontra [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not entirely, no. However, at present what you're seeing is investment in the expectation of an increase in share price irrespective of the underlying value of the business. You're making gigantic assumptions here. It's perfectly OK to establish a company SIMPLY to sell it at the earliest profitable opportunity to another company. You can't walk a mile in the Valley without stumbling upon a business just so constructed. Now, does that immediately make them an MLM proposition? Who are you to tell founders and/or shareholders of a company how they should get to their payoff day? If the company was constructed to sell, then that's what it's going to focus on. That's Business 101. I have no idea what the founders and the subsequent shareholders of YouTube, Skype, MySpace, Bebo, etc actually wanted, but I'm fairly certain they are satisfied with what they have achieved. Google, eBay, News Corp, AOL didn't quite get their money's worth and couldn't make lemonade? How is that the fault of the acquired companies, as they got satisfaction? the fundamentals of the business... ...is what others are willing to pay for it, not for uninvolved parties to pontificate on. As I previously said, what success means to one company may not necessarily mean the same to an acquirer that may have entirely different metrics, concerns, business models, etc. Google, for example, doesn't focus on making money from services, and the vast majority of its revenue comes from advertising. So acquiring the world's biggest social network in FaceBook may mean, business wise, something different to Google than FB or some other company. Google may have entirely different capabilities of monetizing that network than FB. You may think FB's business fundamentals are not there, because you're narrowly stuck in FB-as-an-independent-company model, whereas Google may have far different ambitions with FB. You're seemingly blind to network effects, which is at the heart of many successful online businesses. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- -- Steve 'Doc' Baty B.Sc (Maths), M.EC, MBA Principal Consultant Meld Consulting M: +61 417 061 292 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UX Statistics: http://uxstats.blogspot.com Member, UPA - www.upassoc.org Member, IA Institute - www.iainstitute.org Member, IxDA - www.ixda.org Contributor - UXMatters - www.uxmatters.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 23, 2008, at 1:24 AM, Kontra wrote: Perhaps there's a parallel universe where business success means something other than shareholders in a company getting satisfaction, but I'm not living in it. Separating business success from shareholder success is so much gobbledygook, I'm afraid. Ah... Kontra has spoken! Seriously though... is there a reason you don't use your real name? This is supposed to be a professional forum. If you are so adamant about your opinions being coorect, you might want to at least attribute them to something credible. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
If the end game for the investors is merely further investment, yes they can cash out... but this is pretty similar to a pyramid scheme. A company gets investments throughout its lifecycle, from angels to IPO to acquisition to bonds. It makes no sense to classify a need or desire to get investment as a pyramid scheme. Are you saying Skype is/was a pyramid scheme because they sold to eBay? Even if the scheme of the founders and shareholders were to sell their company to a larger entity as soon as they can? If all that really happens is the final round of investors pay a lot for company that provides no end user value, then the company would hardly be considered a success. If a company pays too much, that's their problem. Nobody holds a gun to their head. One way to make a company attractive to potential investors, acquirers, IPO, etc is to make it provide good customer value -- a built-in, countervailing force. And we are talking about the success of the company, not the profiteering of the founders. When has investors getting a return on their investments become profiteering? -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Kontra, You are confusing the company and the product. You are further confusing getting rich, with profit. And the discussion was centered upon profit as a measure of success. I can not for the life of me see how you could consider either a product, or a company successful without some sort of revenue generation or profit metric. Yes, you would certainly consider their 'business plan' a success if the end goal or exit strategy was to be aquired and for the owners/investors to bank some cash. But that's not what we are talking about here. Mark On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Kontra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the end game for the investors is merely further investment, yes they can cash out... but this is pretty similar to a pyramid scheme. A company gets investments throughout its lifecycle, from angels to IPO to acquisition to bonds. It makes no sense to classify a need or desire to get investment as a pyramid scheme. Are you saying Skype is/was a pyramid scheme because they sold to eBay? Even if the scheme of the founders and shareholders were to sell their company to a larger entity as soon as they can? If all that really happens is the final round of investors pay a lot for company that provides no end user value, then the company would hardly be considered a success. If a company pays too much, that's their problem. Nobody holds a gun to their head. One way to make a company attractive to potential investors, acquirers, IPO, etc is to make it provide good customer value -- a built-in, countervailing force. And we are talking about the success of the company, not the profiteering of the founders. When has investors getting a return on their investments become profiteering? -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 23, 2008, at 12:27 PM, Kontra wrote: A company gets investments throughout its lifecycle, from angels to IPO to acquisition to bonds. It makes no sense to classify a need or desire to get investment as a pyramid scheme. Are you saying Skype is/was a pyramid scheme because they sold to eBay? Even if the scheme of the founders and shareholders were to sell their company to a larger entity as soon as they can? Why on earth are you quoting investments? Also, given your thinking on this subject, I have to presume that since you feel getting bought out is a legitimate business model, then you probably also presume feel that playing roulette is a legit income stream. I mean... the chance of you laying out a couple large on black 20 and hitting it for the big pay off is probably better than getting your company bought by a bigger company for grossly inflated valuations. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I can not for the life of me see how you could consider either a product, or a company successful without some sort of revenue generation or profit metric. It's quite simple: YouTube, the product, has been one of the most spectacularly successful and consumer-appreciated products in the history of the web. YouTube, the company, has been a tremendous success in getting itself sold to Google for $1.65 billion. YouTube founders and investors have been very happy. I haven't heard the acquirer, Google, say they are unhappy with their purchase. YouTube hasn't made any profits. And you think YouTube is a failure? -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 23, 2008, at 3:27 PM, Kontra wrote: Are you saying Skype is/was a pyramid scheme because they sold to eBay? Even if the scheme of the founders and shareholders were to sell their company to a larger entity as soon as they can? With what they know today, do you really think eBay would make the same investment again? Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Just a quick note: Google has no plans on making an immediate profit off of the companies they absolve. They are buying out all major 'virtual domain' property and services. On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Jared Spool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 23, 2008, at 3:27 PM, Kontra wrote: Are you saying Skype is/was a pyramid scheme because they sold to eBay? Even if the scheme of the founders and shareholders were to sell their company to a larger entity as soon as they can? With what they know today, do you really think eBay would make the same investment again? Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- Brett Lutchman Web Slinger. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 23, 2008, at 9:23 PM, Brett Lutchman wrote: Google has no plans on making an immediate profit off of the companies they absolve. They are buying out all major 'virtual domain' property and services. I have no idea what that actually means. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
best response of the week on this mailing list! *still laughing* - Alvin On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Jared Spool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 23, 2008, at 9:23 PM, Brett Lutchman wrote: Google has no plans on making an immediate profit off of the companies they absolve. They are buying out all major 'virtual domain' property and services. I have no idea what that actually means. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Google has no plans on making an immediate profit off of the companies they absolve. They are buying out all major 'virtual domain' property and services. I have no idea what that actually means. - Jared Spool. It's very simple. I don't know why you would have 'no idea what that actually means.' Google thinks very, very big. They are thinking of 2 things. 1. Mine data from users 2. Slow, steady and sure profit When Google buys out companies, they'll take a hit (like most wise companies) if they have to to ensure a steady and sure thing. Even if it means not making an immediate profit. 'Investment' is the word I'm looking for. -- Brett Lutchman Web Slinger. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
? On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 9:35 PM, Alvin Woon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: best response of the week on this mailing list! *still laughing* - Alvin On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Jared Spool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 23, 2008, at 9:23 PM, Brett Lutchman wrote: Google has no plans on making an immediate profit off of the companies they absolve. They are buying out all major 'virtual domain' property and services. I have no idea what that actually means. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- Brett Lutchman Web Slinger. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
*chuckles* The confusion doesn't stem from the concept (which is merely another way of expressing monopolist behavior) but the usage of the word absolve. Unless Google's truly gone off the deep end, I doubt they've been going around forgiving companies (what -- you're part of the dot-com bust? 30 Hail Mary's and go and sin no more...) Tim -- Tim Au Yeung Manager, Digital Object Repository Technology Libraries and Cultural Resources University of Calgary ytau(at)ucalgary.ca 403.220.8975 Brett Lutchman wrote: Google has no plans on making an immediate profit off of the companies they absolve. They are buying out all major 'virtual domain' property and services. I have no idea what that actually means. - Jared Spool. It's very simple. I don't know why you would have 'no idea what that actually means.' Google thinks very, very big. They are thinking of 2 things. 1. Mine data from users 2. Slow, steady and sure profit When Google buys out companies, they'll take a hit (like most wise companies) if they have to to ensure a steady and sure thing. Even if it means not making an immediate profit. 'Investment' is the word I'm looking for. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Ahh! I see! In my church the word literally means To own. Many people don't know this but the infant baptism literally meant To own birthright (the early Roman Empire did this to own the citizenship of the countries and people it occupied) The word has evolved to 'forgiveness'. But it really means 'to own' or 'declare ownership' I'm to tired right now so I'll do my Hail Mary's in the morning. *: )* On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Tim Au Yeung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *chuckles* The confusion doesn't stem from the concept (which is merely another way of expressing monopolist behavior) but the usage of the word absolve. Unless Google's truly gone off the deep end, I doubt they've been going around forgiving companies (what -- you're part of the dot-com bust? 30 Hail Mary's and go and sin no more...) Tim -- Tim Au Yeung Manager, Digital Object Repository Technology Libraries and Cultural Resources University of Calgary ytau(at)ucalgary.ca 403.220.8975 Brett Lutchman wrote: Google has no plans on making an immediate profit off of the companies they absolve. They are buying out all major 'virtual domain' property and services. I have no idea what that actually means. - Jared Spool. It's very simple. I don't know why you would have 'no idea what that actually means.' Google thinks very, very big. They are thinking of 2 things. 1. Mine data from users 2. Slow, steady and sure profit When Google buys out companies, they'll take a hit (like most wise companies) if they have to to ensure a steady and sure thing. Even if it means not making an immediate profit. 'Investment' is the word I'm looking for. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- Brett Lutchman Web Slinger. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Apparently, not a disciple of Webster. On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:39 PM, Brett Lutchman wrote: Ahh! I see! In my church the word literally means To own. On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Tim Au Yeung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The confusion doesn't stem from the concept (which is merely another way of expressing monopolist behavior) but the usage of the word absolve. Brett Lutchman wrote: Google has no plans on making an immediate profit off of the companies they absolve. They are buying out all major 'virtual domain' property and services. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Interesting point: Well done research on social networks and their worldwide uses. http://royal.pingdom.com/?p=336 Inspired by the original, if a little flawed, mapping from Valleywag. http://www.scribd.com/doc/238513/The-World-Map-of-Social-Networks On Sep 20, 2008, at 8:57 PM, Damon Dimmick wrote: That's very interesting. You are right, it may be cultura. I have never used my Myspace account, not really anyway. I resisted the myspace surge and was always interested in orkut / friendster until I found facebook, so perhaps there's a relative difference. Interesting point, Jarod. I would therefore argue that calling something obsolete because other choices are available isn't sufficient. I mean, the skateboard is another choice for getting around a city, but does that make car's obsolete? For true obsolescence to occur, there must be a better way to accomplish the goal that the newly-obsolete technology addresses, and this better way must make the original choice more costly (in a games theory sense of utility) than the new technology in so far as satisfying that user goal. Agree fully. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I do think that Facebook has yet to produce a meaningful business model. And this is a huge problem. Wasn't for YouTube. Or Skype. Or MySpace. Etc. Looking for multimillion-dollar pay-off problems? -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I would love to see the comparison study of the design reviews of people who only saw FB after the new design implementation vs. those who migrated from the older version. Folks earlier in the thread might have it right, change is what makes everyone else more negative toward the new design. Getting obsolete or not, Facebook is adding new users constantly, and for many this will be the only design that they'll know. Alternatively, some of those migrating won't care. Many folks with a large online presence might not see this an overhaul. Maybe they have come to expect (crave?) these smaller change/relearn patterns. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Jarod, thanks for making the point about a sustainable business model. And also for the stats on user traffic. I'd love to see the study of how people react to the design in regards to existing users migrating from the old version vs. the users who have just recently signed up after the new design implementation. Also, would be interesting to see how many went through the extra step(s) to use the old facebook application (before it stopped working) vs. just relearning the new interface. Out of curiosity, what's the best revenue-producing social networking site model (MySpace) so far? Is it even possible--expected?--for these guys to sustain themselves for long periods of time? Or do users, especially in younger groups, prefer the idea of a nomadic life of moving from new site to new site from year-to-year? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 21, 2008, at 6:48 PM, Kontra wrote: I do think that Facebook has yet to produce a meaningful business model. And this is a huge problem. Wasn't for YouTube. Or Skype. Or MySpace. Etc. Looking for multimillion-dollar pay-off problems? Yah. Skype's worked out real good for eBay. And MySpace was a great investment for Newscorp. The writeoffs they've taken were all in the plan, right? I don't think MS put $124 million into 12% of Facebook so that they'd make it back on a Google acquisition. At least YouTube has advertising opportunities (albeit low) for Google. What's Facebook got? How does Facebook deliver a return to their investors? Or do investors no longer care about getting their money back? Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 21, 2008, at 1:23 PM, Krystal R.Higgins wrote: Out of curiosity, what's the best revenue-producing social networking site model (MySpace) so far? eBay and Amazon. Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I was quite happily ignoring this thread until I hit this: I do think that Facebook has yet to produce a meaningful business model. And this is a huge problem. Wasn't for YouTube. Or Skype. Or MySpace. Etc. Looking for multimillion-dollar pay-off problems? I can't but think that being bought out by someone else is not a business model. Not having a revenue model for your business *is* a problem because it indicates a lack of thinking about the future relevance of your business, and it's a failure to secure the future of that business. Sooner or later that's going to bite you in the ass. Regards Steve 2008/9/22 Kontra [EMAIL PROTECTED] I do think that Facebook has yet to produce a meaningful business model. And this is a huge problem. Wasn't for YouTube. Or Skype. Or MySpace. Etc. Looking for multimillion-dollar pay-off problems? -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- -- Steve 'Doc' Baty B.Sc (Maths), M.EC, MBA Principal Consultant Meld Consulting M: +61 417 061 292 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UX Statistics: http://uxstats.blogspot.com Member, UPA - www.upassoc.org Member, IA Institute - www.iainstitute.org Member, IxDA - www.ixda.org Contributor - UXMatters - www.uxmatters.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
But Jared, those are businesses that have ADDED social networking (especially the Amazon case) as a means of adding value to their core commerce business. Social Networks like FB and Twitter need something different. 1) add services that take advantage of the SN ala LinkedIn (BTW, that might be the real answer to the question of a monetized social network, no?) that people are willing or needing to take advantage of. 2) Make the service part of a greater service offering where the clout of the SN that you've already built bring in people to another service that can thrive off of a social network model. 3) This will only work for Twitter, but make the service a cost-center that leads to other revenue streams. (ala add in openID for a cost, or become a social network consultancy, or turn your service into OSS and consult on private installations for the enterprise or Gov't. But to be honest, as an end user, if FB can last 10 years w/o a viable business model. I could care less. In 10 years something else will get my attention and so long as I can keep using FB the way I have for free, it serves my needs quite well. But I live in the US and we love just thinking about now and me until it is too late. ;-) -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Sidenote: If you visit facebook.com with JavaScript disabled, you get an inspiring blank screen. The source is just two script tags. -- Santiago Bustelo Buenos Aires, Argentina . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 8:34 PM, David Malouf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But Jared, those are businesses that have ADDED social networking (especially the Amazon case) as a means of adding value to their core commerce business. Adding value maybe the proper description on social networking; or thinking from different direction, people always gather because of some reason ( like ixda formed around interaction designers) 1. the share the similiar interests 2. the share the similar experience The business model should be better based on the shared stuff, instead of on the networking itself, because the the shared stuff more close to user's motivation for better design. Cheers, -- Jarod -- http://designforuse.blogspot.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 22, 2008, at 5:34 AM, David Malouf wrote: But Jared, those are businesses that have ADDED social networking (especially the Amazon case) as a means of adding value to their core commerce business. I don't know what added means. eBay, from day 1, had their community and reputation management system. Amazon, from day 1, had their reviews and ratings. Both of these are core social networking features, albeit different than the Can-I-Facebook-You? pickup-line approach. So, your complaint about my bringing up eBay and Amazon is that they started with a viable business model instead of praying one appears to them in a burning bush before the investor money runs out? I guess I'm just lacking the faith that FB's mgmt has. But to be honest, as an end user, if FB can last 10 years w/o a viable business model. I could care less. In 10 years something else will get my attention and so long as I can keep using FB the way I have for free, it serves my needs quite well. So, is that it? FB is just a decade-long experiment to disprove the Dunbar number theory? Once it's outlived its usefulness, we just let it plummet back into the atmosphere and burn? I wonder if anyone has let the investors in on the nature of this experiment. :) Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I think we are defining social networks different. Not everything that is social is a social network, IMHO. I don't see really any networking going on in Amazon, or in no way that is really connected. I don't create friends, I can't even say I want to buy everything this review buys. I can't make that reviewer a favorite or anything like that. Sure PEOPLE are engaged, but the network is not, IMHO. I don't use eBay enough to really know what is going on there, but it does seem again, that it is social, but not networked, IMHO. As for the experiment I was wondering, what features are valuable to the END USER, not the business. Often there can be a conflict between the 2. Adding monetization could be detrimental to the end-user experience, but then again, w/o it the service won't live long, now will it. But just as people pretty easily have moved from one IM client to another, and from AOL to MySpace to Facebook and so on and so forth, the end user is a lot more flexible than the business. Your focus on the business is GREAT and as designers interested in stakeholder centered design it has to be considered. -- dave On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Jared Spool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 22, 2008, at 5:34 AM, David Malouf wrote: But Jared, those are businesses that have ADDED social networking (especially the Amazon case) as a means of adding value to their core commerce business. I don't know what added means. eBay, from day 1, had their community and reputation management system. Amazon, from day 1, had their reviews and ratings. Both of these are core social networking features, albeit different than the Can-I-Facebook-You? pickup-line approach. So, your complaint about my bringing up eBay and Amazon is that they started with a viable business model instead of praying one appears to them in a burning bush before the investor money runs out? I guess I'm just lacking the faith that FB's mgmt has. But to be honest, as an end user, if FB can last 10 years w/o a viable business model. I could care less. In 10 years something else will get my attention and so long as I can keep using FB the way I have for free, it serves my needs quite well. So, is that it? FB is just a decade-long experiment to disprove the Dunbar number theory? Once it's outlived its usefulness, we just let it plummet back into the atmosphere and burn? I wonder if anyone has let the investors in on the nature of this experiment. :) Jared -- David Malouf http://synapticburn.com/ http://ixda.org/ http://motorola.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
So an address book? Facebook might have done this redesign as a means to scale its capabilities and support future social computing trends. I think this paradigm shift of contacts being the launch pad for viewing content is important and will be a natural progression into mobile social computing. I read this trend about Intelligent contact lists being the future centres of the user interface , which is an interesting concept. ( www.pmn.co.uk/mex/agenda08.shtml#7 ) Facebook is turning into a Plaxo-like app, perhaps an address book/ contact list on steroids and this is going to be a trend seen more often as the next generation and newer trends in messaging architecture unfolds. Smitha Ram Senior Interaction Designer Thomson Reuters | www.thomsonreuters.com -- Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
There is a difference between sites that are Social Media Sites, and those that are Social Networking sites, although some do both. To the degree that a site encourages basic user generated content, but little else (ratings, comments, discussions, blog posts, images, video) as opposed to a Social Networking (connecting, friending, messaging) -- Some sites do some mix of networking and user generated content - some more than others - some blogs are really neither. If you can't comment on a post, rate a post, etc - than although it is user generated content - it's not social, for instance Seth Godin's personal blog is neither networking nor media because their are no mechanisms for connection of communication. On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 11:15 AM, David Malouf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we are defining social networks different. Not everything that is social is a social network, IMHO. I don't see really any networking going on in Amazon, or in no way that is really connected. I don't create friends, I can't even say I want to buy everything this review buys. I can't make that reviewer a favorite or anything like that. Sure PEOPLE are engaged, but the network is not, IMHO. I don't use eBay enough to really know what is going on there, but it does seem again, that it is social, but not networked, IMHO. As for the experiment I was wondering, what features are valuable to the END USER, not the business. Often there can be a conflict between the 2. Adding monetization could be detrimental to the end-user experience, but then again, w/o it the service won't live long, now will it. But just as people pretty easily have moved from one IM client to another, and from AOL to MySpace to Facebook and so on and so forth, the end user is a lot more flexible than the business. Your focus on the business is GREAT and as designers interested in stakeholder centered design it has to be considered. -- dave On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Jared Spool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 22, 2008, at 5:34 AM, David Malouf wrote: But Jared, those are businesses that have ADDED social networking (especially the Amazon case) as a means of adding value to their core commerce business. I don't know what added means. eBay, from day 1, had their community and reputation management system. Amazon, from day 1, had their reviews and ratings. Both of these are core social networking features, albeit different than the Can-I-Facebook-You? pickup-line approach. So, your complaint about my bringing up eBay and Amazon is that they started with a viable business model instead of praying one appears to them in a burning bush before the investor money runs out? I guess I'm just lacking the faith that FB's mgmt has. But to be honest, as an end user, if FB can last 10 years w/o a viable business model. I could care less. In 10 years something else will get my attention and so long as I can keep using FB the way I have for free, it serves my needs quite well. So, is that it? FB is just a decade-long experiment to disprove the Dunbar number theory? Once it's outlived its usefulness, we just let it plummet back into the atmosphere and burn? I wonder if anyone has let the investors in on the nature of this experiment. :) Jared -- David Malouf http://synapticburn.com/ http://ixda.org/ http://motorola.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:52 AM, Will Evans wrote: There is a difference between sites that are Social Media Sites, and those that are Social Networking sites, although some do both. To the degree that a site encourages basic user generated content, but little else (ratings, comments, discussions, blog posts, images, video) as opposed to a Social Networking (connecting, friending, messaging) -- Some sites do some mix of networking and user generated content - some more than others - some blogs are really neither. If you can't comment on a post, rate a post, etc - than although it is user generated content - it's not social, for instance Seth Godin's personal blog is neither networking nor media because their are no mechanisms for connection of communication. Blah. Now we're killing kittens. (As in Every time you define a web 2.0 concept, God kills a kitten. Please! Remember the kittens!) So, Netflix lets you review and rate movies. So it's a social media site? And it let's you friend people (or connect to existing friends) and message them with specific recommendations. Does that make it a Social Networking site? BTW, Amazon lets you do the same things. As does eBay. And BankofAmerica.com has some of these features. What *isn't* a social media or social networking site? (See if you can answer that without killing any more kittens. :) ) Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
What if the whole idea of a revenue model is the wrong question? Coming in from left field here, but does anyone ask, What is the revenue model of the Boston Commons? The town square? The implication is that if something does not have a revenue model, it cannot exist and does not deserve to exist. By this argument, poetry does not exist. Commons do not exist. The odd question here is not WHY users dislike ads, with the presumption that they HAVE to be enculturated to somehow like ads. I dislike cold showers, and all the persuasion in the world will not make me like cold showers. Has anyone stopped to think that perhaps what we are witnessing is something like truth breaking through the dominant (and perhaps oppressive) media programming of an audience, to stand up and say, No, no matter how much melamine you put in my processed box dinner, I do not like it Sam I am! For some reason, I don't feel the need to ask the question of why users dislike ads, any more than I need to ask why I dislike cold showers or processed box dinners. What I have to ask is why people seem to presume that with enough applied persuasion, I can be made to LIKE those things, and that I ought to be made to do so, as some kind of a moral imperative, to be able to sustain somebody else's idea of a business model, when, last time I checked, Town Commons, electronic commons, have sustained themselves just fine any time people feel the need to get together, and share ideas, and talk. The odd thing to me here is that the presumption, the baseline, appears to be How dare they feel the need to get together and share ideas and talk without listening to us tell them to buy things. The nerve of some people! Any other view of what people do when they gather together is framed as beyond the pale, outside societal norms. To that I say, Says who? No business model? What will those people DO when they come together? Just sit around and be wankers and not buy anything?! I just can't imagine what they might do, especially since it might come out of their own heads, instead of being predefined by US. Hmph. Chris On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Steve Baty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was quite happily ignoring this thread until I hit this: I do think that Facebook has yet to produce a meaningful business model. And this is a huge problem. Wasn't for YouTube. Or Skype. Or MySpace. Etc. Looking for multimillion-dollar pay-off problems? I can't but think that being bought out by someone else is not a business model. Not having a revenue model for your business *is* a problem because it indicates a lack of thinking about the future relevance of your business, and it's a failure to secure the future of that business. Sooner or later that's going to bite you in the ass. Regards Steve 2008/9/22 Kontra [EMAIL PROTECTED] I do think that Facebook has yet to produce a meaningful business model. And this is a huge problem. Wasn't for YouTube. Or Skype. Or MySpace. Etc. Looking for multimillion-dollar pay-off problems? -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- -- Steve 'Doc' Baty B.Sc (Maths), M.EC, MBA Principal Consultant Meld Consulting M: +61 417 061 292 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UX Statistics: http://uxstats.blogspot.com Member, UPA - www.upassoc.org Member, IA Institute - www.iainstitute.org Member, IxDA - www.ixda.org Contributor - UXMatters - www.uxmatters.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I can live w/ that distinction. :) Again, I want to highlight that LinkedIn might very well be a good example depending on your point of view of a Social Networking site with a business model worthy of a valuation. -- dave On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Will Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: There is a difference between sites that are Social Media Sites, and those that are Social Networking sites, although some do both. To the degree that a site encourages basic user generated content, but little else (ratings, comments, discussions, blog posts, images, video) as opposed to a Social Networking (connecting, friending, messaging) -- Some sites do some mix of networking and user generated content - some more than others - some blogs are really neither. If you can't comment on a post, rate a post, etc - than although it is user generated content - it's not social, for instance Seth Godin's personal blog is neither networking nor media because their are no mechanisms for connection of communication. On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 11:15 AM, David Malouf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we are defining social networks different. Not everything that is social is a social network, IMHO. I don't see really any networking going on in Amazon, or in no way that is really connected. I don't create friends, I can't even say I want to buy everything this review buys. I can't make that reviewer a favorite or anything like that. Sure PEOPLE are engaged, but the network is not, IMHO. I don't use eBay enough to really know what is going on there, but it does seem again, that it is social, but not networked, IMHO. As for the experiment I was wondering, what features are valuable to the END USER, not the business. Often there can be a conflict between the 2. Adding monetization could be detrimental to the end-user experience, but then again, w/o it the service won't live long, now will it. But just as people pretty easily have moved from one IM client to another, and from AOL to MySpace to Facebook and so on and so forth, the end user is a lot more flexible than the business. Your focus on the business is GREAT and as designers interested in stakeholder centered design it has to be considered. -- dave On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Jared Spool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 22, 2008, at 5:34 AM, David Malouf wrote: But Jared, those are businesses that have ADDED social networking (especially the Amazon case) as a means of adding value to their core commerce business. I don't know what added means. eBay, from day 1, had their community and reputation management system. Amazon, from day 1, had their reviews and ratings. Both of these are core social networking features, albeit different than the Can-I-Facebook-You? pickup-line approach. So, your complaint about my bringing up eBay and Amazon is that they started with a viable business model instead of praying one appears to them in a burning bush before the investor money runs out? I guess I'm just lacking the faith that FB's mgmt has. But to be honest, as an end user, if FB can last 10 years w/o a viable business model. I could care less. In 10 years something else will get my attention and so long as I can keep using FB the way I have for free, it serves my needs quite well. So, is that it? FB is just a decade-long experiment to disprove the Dunbar number theory? Once it's outlived its usefulness, we just let it plummet back into the atmosphere and burn? I wonder if anyone has let the investors in on the nature of this experiment. :) Jared -- David Malouf http://synapticburn.com/ http://ixda.org/ http://motorola.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - -- David Malouf http://synapticburn.com/ http://ixda.org/ http://motorola.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
At some level, do you not make an assessment of value and the expenditure of resources? In some cases the return may not be direct revenue, but in good will, economic stimuli or just because it is the right thing to do, but there is usually some measure for the effort and expense. But in the case of a 'for profit' company, fiscal responsibility and the care taking of shareholder investment would seem to drive some notion of a plan. To that end, a site might be deemed successful at somethings it does, but certainly not at 'being a business' until it is profitable. Lot's of folks invested in Facebook. Facebook took their money with a promise of return. To Jared's point... that return does not appear likely or even a remote possibility. Facebook might have been successful at many things, but it is not a successful business. Unless, of course, you consider obtaining financing an end game (and some, no doubt, do). Mark On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Christine Boese [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if the whole idea of a revenue model is the wrong question? Coming in from left field here, but does anyone ask, What is the revenue model of the Boston Commons? The town square? The implication is that if something does not have a revenue model, it cannot exist and does not deserve to exist. By this argument, poetry does not exist. Commons do not exist. The odd question here is not WHY users dislike ads, with the presumption that they HAVE to be enculturated to somehow like ads. I dislike cold showers, and all the persuasion in the world will not make me like cold showers. Has anyone stopped to think that perhaps what we are witnessing is something like truth breaking through the dominant (and perhaps oppressive) media programming of an audience, to stand up and say, No, no matter how much melamine you put in my processed box dinner, I do not like it Sam I am! For some reason, I don't feel the need to ask the question of why users dislike ads, any more than I need to ask why I dislike cold showers or processed box dinners. What I have to ask is why people seem to presume that with enough applied persuasion, I can be made to LIKE those things, and that I ought to be made to do so, as some kind of a moral imperative, to be able to sustain somebody else's idea of a business model, when, last time I checked, Town Commons, electronic commons, have sustained themselves just fine any time people feel the need to get together, and share ideas, and talk. The odd thing to me here is that the presumption, the baseline, appears to be How dare they feel the need to get together and share ideas and talk without listening to us tell them to buy things. The nerve of some people! Any other view of what people do when they gather together is framed as beyond the pale, outside societal norms. To that I say, Says who? No business model? What will those people DO when they come together? Just sit around and be wankers and not buy anything?! I just can't imagine what they might do, especially since it might come out of their own heads, instead of being predefined by US. Hmph. Chris On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Steve Baty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was quite happily ignoring this thread until I hit this: I do think that Facebook has yet to produce a meaningful business model. And this is a huge problem. Wasn't for YouTube. Or Skype. Or MySpace. Etc. Looking for multimillion-dollar pay-off problems? I can't but think that being bought out by someone else is not a business model. Not having a revenue model for your business *is* a problem because it indicates a lack of thinking about the future relevance of your business, and it's a failure to secure the future of that business. Sooner or later that's going to bite you in the ass. Regards Steve 2008/9/22 Kontra [EMAIL PROTECTED] I do think that Facebook has yet to produce a meaningful business model. And this is a huge problem. Wasn't for YouTube. Or Skype. Or MySpace. Etc. Looking for multimillion-dollar pay-off problems? -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- -- Steve 'Doc' Baty B.Sc (Maths), M.EC, MBA Principal Consultant Meld Consulting M: +61 417 061 292 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UX Statistics: http://uxstats.blogspot.com Member, UPA - www.upassoc.org Member, IA Institute - www.iainstitute.org Member, IxDA - www.ixda.org Contributor - UXMatters - www.uxmatters.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I'm not sure if it helps or hinders your point, but playing the devil's advocate: both Boston Commons and the town square have a revenue model. They both require revenue to sustain themselves (keep the grounds clean, sponsor and host events, etc), and typically collect that revenue not from ads, but through local or state taxes. I'd assume the folks responsible for managing those public spaces are pretty keenly aware of their value, and what's required to keep them from being turned into parking lots. Perhaps there should be room for public spaces for the greater good on the Internet, which rise above the need for ad-based or other revenue. Until that's available, though, the revenue-potential of a site goes directly to the heart of its value, today. If a company can't find a way to stay in business, without any other external support (charity, donations), why should any but the most innovative folks invest the time to build a community there, when the site could disappear in six months? - Bryan Christine said: What if the whole idea of a revenue model is the wrong question? Coming in from left field here, but does anyone ask, What is the revenue model of the Boston Commons? The town square? [snip] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
[Death Kitten 2000: How many points are those damn kitties worth?] I think it is a continuum and focus question. I have NEVER used any of the networking features of Amazon or Netflix. The site's value has very little to do with those features. For people who dig them great! Makes a lot of sense. Now I do know people who go to Facebook to play Risk and Scrabble and little else so you could say that FB is just like Amazon and Netflix, but really that would be killing kittens at an extreme. I would say that the core use of one is different than the core use of the other. I'm never going to go to Amazon for the purpose of Ambient Intimacy either as a contributor or consumer, so calling it a social networking site to me feel disingenuous and is really like Palin saying she didn't REALLY support the bridge to nowhere. THAT is killing WAY too many kittens. I think you know there is a difference between FB and Amazon when it comes to its focus on the social and more specifically the social network itself. Now Chris, I think unfortunately all forms of public space have costs attached to them. Some come from the public sphere through taxes and policy-decisions that allow their support, others through tax abatement like the creation of corporate public spaces among the skyscrapers in Manhattan and the funding (self-imposed taxes) of BIDs all over the city. They are envalued as someone already pointed out. Now the question is, can we create virtual spaces equivalent to these public works (corp or public sponsored) and if so what are the mechanisms for doing so? Is this akin to a corporation supporting an OSS project? -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Yes, thanks Bryan, that actually supports my point, and I was thinking along those lines too. Often, keepers of online social spaces presume that because there are costs for hosting, supporting, upgrading these spaces, they MUST be revenue-focused, as if revenue is the deeper goal, underlying all social associations. But public spaces, discourse spaces, commons, all incur costs, if nothing else, for bathroom cleaning, litter, etc. AND they can also offer support for revenue-producing activities (kiosks for fliers, street musicians with their little cans for money, concerts, speakers, etc.). Revenue is not necessarily excluded from the commons, but is not allowed to intrude upon the commons part of it. An odd example of what happened to town/city social spaces (and is in many places currently being un-done, as it was terrible) was the mall-fication (malification? lol) of the marketplace, removing it from the commons and placing it in a suburban private, enclosed space, highly controlled, with security guards, accessable only by transport, etc. This was a massive encroachment on the idea of a Commons, with little counter movement on behalf of publics, to advocate for the preservation of these kinds of spaces, rather than the rampant privatization (and class-divisions, political and civic speech exclusions) of mall spaces. Some of the effects of those exclusions led to a good deal of the migration online, to online commons, as the public, civic, and political needs sought a new outlet. But we must not presume that the hosts of the new online spaces have civic and political needs in mind, and have to guard such needs as strongly in these spaces as we have to work to reclaim the Commons in the face to face world as well, as an open, democratized space for all, and not privatized, class-segregated, censored spaces. Chris On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Bryan Minihan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure if it helps or hinders your point, but playing the devil's advocate: both Boston Commons and the town square have a revenue model. They both require revenue to sustain themselves (keep the grounds clean, sponsor and host events, etc), and typically collect that revenue not from ads, but through local or state taxes. I'd assume the folks responsible for managing those public spaces are pretty keenly aware of their value, and what's required to keep them from being turned into parking lots. Perhaps there should be room for public spaces for the greater good on the Internet, which rise above the need for ad-based or other revenue. Until that's available, though, the revenue-potential of a site goes directly to the heart of its value, today. If a company can't find a way to stay in business, without any other external support (charity, donations), why should any but the most innovative folks invest the time to build a community there, when the site could disappear in six months? - Bryan Christine said: What if the whole idea of a revenue model is the wrong question? Coming in from left field here, but does anyone ask, What is the revenue model of the Boston Commons? The town square? [snip] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Hi Chris, I don't think that ads are necessarily the answer, and focusing on ads to the exclusion of other revenue models is a bit of a strawman. What I think others are suggesting is that users shouldn't expect to receive value for free. I dislike cold showers as much as the next person. And it should come as no surprise that I also dislike paying utility bills. Why should I be expected to pay my utility bill simply because I dislike taking cold showers? I don't care how much it costs the utility company to get me my hot water, all I'm interested in is taking a relaxing shower. The argument isn't that we should persuade people to enjoy cold showers. And the argument isn't that we should persuade people to enjoy paying utility bills. The argument is that we should persuade people to accept some form of utility bill as a legitimate exchange for the value of a hot shower. In this little allegory, the utility bill doesn't necessarily need to be an ad. It could be some other mechanism that provides the requisite exchange in value. // jeff Chris wrote: The odd question here is not WHY users dislike ads, with the presumption that they HAVE to be enculturated to somehow like ads. I dislike cold showers, and all the persuasion in the world will not make me like cold showers. Has anyone stopped to think that perhaps what we are witnessing is something like truth breaking through the dominant (and perhaps oppressive) media programming of an audience, to stand up and say, No, no matter how much melamine you put in my processed box dinner, I do not like it Sam I am! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 22, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Christine Boese wrote: What if the whole idea of a revenue model is the wrong question? Coming in from left field here, but does anyone ask, What is the revenue model of the Boston Commons? The town square? I see. So the $496,000,000 that has been poured into Facebook by Microsoft, Li Ka-shing, and the other venture capitalists should be thought of as a public-service project? Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I thought Christine was speaking generically at this point. The conversation has gone a little academic, right? So looking specifically at FB, I do have to agree with Jared that at this point in history (no revisionism allowed) it would seem that FB has a heck of a big turn to make to make it all come together. Now, going back to the original point of the thread. I STILL prefer the new design to the old. ;-) -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Yah. Skype's worked out real good for eBay. And MySpace was a great investment for Newscorp. The writeoffs they've taken were all in the plan, right? You're confused. Skype shareholders didn't care about eBay, neither did MySpace shareholders about News Corp. That's not their job. Both got handsomely paid. Niklas Zennstrom and Janus Friis first got $2.6 billlion from eBay and then also got a $1.5 billion earn-out. You think they are unhappy that eBay got not much out of it? Complain to Meg Whitman. Skype did what it had to...very profitably. You think Zuckerberg Co is going to care about what would happen to Microsoft if/when it acquires FaceBook? They care about (and that's what their focus ought to be) their own payoff. I bet the shareholders of your company (with our without a profitable business model) wouldn't mind seeing a $4 billion payoff day. It's the American way. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I'm a little curious about the revenue issue here. Let's assume that Facebook really does have 80 million users plus millions visitors without accounts. (http://is.gd/2Y6d) These people spend lots of time creating a map of their social network, taking tests wherein they describe their preferences, interests, etc. Additionally they share information with each other about what they're doing, what they're interested in and what they dis/like. Now, lets's assume that this takes place on a massive scale and wager that there are one hundred million conversations taking place on Facebook every day. I'll bet you can cull some valuable data from this massive chatter box. Instead of waiting for the next Gallup poll or Synovate Monitor, you could have access to a large, live data stream of preferences, opinions and behaviors. According to its business plan, Google aims to create value By organizing the worldʼs information and making it accessible and useful. Several pages later, they explain more truthfully that they do it By providing advertisers with the opportunity to deliver measurable, cost-effective online advertising that is relevant to the information displayed on any given page. In my view, Facebook is an elegant ruse. On the surface, it's a social utility that connects you with the people around you. Further down, it is more likely a machine that motivates regular people to connect, converse and share, and finds a way to extract valuable data from the millions of ongoing conversations. - Fredrik Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 22, 2008, at 4:05 PM, Fredrik Matheson wrote: In my view, Facebook is an elegant ruse. On the surface, it's a social utility that connects you with the people around you. Further down, it is more likely a machine that motivates regular people to connect, converse and share, and finds a way to extract valuable data from the millions of ongoing conversations. Hee. Who woulda thought all those super pokes and vampire bites would be worth millions some day? Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:18 AM, Jared Spool wrote: On Sep 22, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Christine Boese wrote: What if the whole idea of a revenue model is the wrong question? Coming in from left field here, but does anyone ask, What is the revenue model of the Boston Commons? The town square? I see. So the $496,000,000 that has been poured into Facebook by Microsoft, Li Ka-shing, and the other venture capitalists should be thought of as a public-service project? Someone is going to have to do it.. Might as well be Facebook since they could probably withstand the backlash. That is... charge $9.99 a month to have an active account. A free account would still exist but gets severely limited. Seriously... that was the model that worked for America Online. Just charge a service fee for ... service! Not sure why that's such a bad thing. Most of the folks in the internet space are going to have to realize that if they want to make money, they'll probably to actually charge their customers at some point. Advertising will only get all of us so far, and will probably only work for a few select companies. Charging money isn't actually a bad thing. In fact, it can be argued it's the responsible thing to do. And further, it can also be argued that if everyone stopped making everything free we could all move back into building real businesses with real sustainable revenue models instead of everyone rolling the dice and hoping to get bought. In fact, I'm willing to lay good money that if Google announced they would be charging $49 a year for access to their cloud apps like Docs and GMail, they'd only lose at most 33% of their current customer base, and probably a lot less. I mean... seriously... $49 a year is still massively cheaper than paying $200+ for Office. And I'd also be willing to bet Google can keep the advertisements in their cloud apps while doing so. This broaches a larger discussion, but it's long been a problem that people will pay for hardware with services -- like say your cell phone and SMS data plan or such -- but somehow think software should always be free. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
The comment (re: revenue models) was made in the context of whether or not Facebook - and Youtube, MySpace etc - provide value as businesses and whether or not they're sustainable. I guess one could argue that endlessly attracting and spending venture capital is one form of business model, but IMHO a business needs a business model or else it remains forever at the mercy of those investors. A business model consists of several things, one of which is all your expenses; another is your source of funding. Clearly the businesses in question have got a handle on the 'spending money' part of the equation. The question is whether or not they have - or will ever have - a revenue model to balance that out. Coming back to Christine's question regarding public grounds, facilities and infrastructure: the public supports those things through their taxes, and they absolutely evaluate whether or not those services are provided value commensurate with that investment. The newspapers are filled with stories debating the relative merits of one public infrastructure project versus more spending on services? Why is the Mayor spending more money upgrading Boston Commons when our schools are falling down?! etc etc. I'm happy for the founders of these various companies that someone came along and paid them large sums of money. That's an indication of potential; it's not a free-pass on the fundamentals of business. Steve 2008/9/23 Jared Spool [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sep 22, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Christine Boese wrote: What if the whole idea of a revenue model is the wrong question? Coming in from left field here, but does anyone ask, What is the revenue model of the Boston Commons? The town square? I see. So the $496,000,000 that has been poured into Facebook by Microsoft, Li Ka-shing, and the other venture capitalists should be thought of as a public-service project? Jared -- -- Steve 'Doc' Baty B.Sc (Maths), M.EC, MBA Principal Consultant Meld Consulting M: +61 417 061 292 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UX Statistics: http://uxstats.blogspot.com Member, UPA - www.upassoc.org Member, IA Institute - www.iainstitute.org Member, IxDA - www.ixda.org Contributor - UXMatters - www.uxmatters.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
at this point in history (no revisionism allowed) it would seem that FB has a heck of a big turn to make to make it all come together. FB has great network effects, low cost of production and sales, dominance in its sector and excellent growth rate. FB has raised $300 so far and is slated to earn $300 million in revenue this year. FB has over 130 million unique visitors. FB got a nominal valuation of $15 billion on Microsoft investment of $246 million. FB is said to have a $3.75 billion valuation according to its own internal calculations. (For comparison, Bebo, with 40 million users, sold to AOL for $850 million @ $21.25/user. MySpace, with 21 million users at the time, went to News Corp @ $27.62/user. Skype to eBay for $4.1 billion @ $52/user.) In just a few short years, FB has achieved all this apparently without killing animals. This is supposed to be failure? I gotta get me some of that fad to make my life to come together like that. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Kontra, That (Facebook's internal) valuation indicates a rate of approximately $29/user, with revenue *projections* of $2.30/user this year. Is FB revenue neutral yet? Does that $300m cover its costs of production, operation, and marketing? How long until the investments to-date - $496m according to Jared's earlier comment - are recouped? Is the company even cashflow positive? Is revenue growth matching the growth in users? How about the cost base? If the investment dollars were shut off today, how long would the company last? What you've seen to-date is conditional success - those are good numbers; but they still have a ways to go until the fundamentals are in place. And the question remains: by the time the fundamentals are in place, will anyone care? Regards Steve 2008/9/23 Kontra [EMAIL PROTECTED] at this point in history (no revisionism allowed) it would seem that FB has a heck of a big turn to make to make it all come together. FB has great network effects, low cost of production and sales, dominance in its sector and excellent growth rate. FB has raised $300 so far and is slated to earn $300 million in revenue this year. FB has over 130 million unique visitors. FB got a nominal valuation of $15 billion on Microsoft investment of $246 million. FB is said to have a $3.75 billion valuation according to its own internal calculations. (For comparison, Bebo, with 40 million users, sold to AOL for $850 million @ $21.25/user. MySpace, with 21 million users at the time, went to News Corp @ $27.62/user. Skype to eBay for $4.1 billion @ $52/user.) In just a few short years, FB has achieved all this apparently without killing animals. This is supposed to be failure? I gotta get me some of that fad to make my life to come together like that. -- Kontra http://counternotions.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- -- Steve 'Doc' Baty B.Sc (Maths), M.EC, MBA Principal Consultant Meld Consulting M: +61 417 061 292 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UX Statistics: http://uxstats.blogspot.com Member, UPA - www.upassoc.org Member, IA Institute - www.iainstitute.org Member, IxDA - www.ixda.org Contributor - UXMatters - www.uxmatters.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 21, 2008, at 9:09 AM, David Malouf wrote: So no one has still convinced me that FB is obsolete. I don't think Facebook is obsolete. (I don't even know what obsolete means in this context. Is eBay obsolete? Amazon?) I do think that Facebook has yet to produce a meaningful business model. And this is a huge problem. Sure, it gets a ton of traffic (http://tinyurl.com/3nqov6) and has high average stays (http://tinyurl.com/3nqov6). But few of those 41m people a month actually produce any revenue for the site. Until the site has a mechanism to pay for the servers, the rent, and the almost 1000 employees, I really don't think they have long term prospects. Eventually, the investors will want the 10x returns on their investments. Where is that money coming from? This is where it becomes relevant to IxD, in my mind. Every time Facebook has tried to change the design to open a space for revenue generating functionality, the users have borked. The users have made it clear they don't want ads in their feeds. They don't want Facebook using them as a sales reference (Your buddy, Jared, just bought shoes at Amazon -- you should too!). They want to stay connected, but not pay for that privilege. (Twitter, btw, has the same issue.) So, I don't think they are obsolete. But I don't think they'll make it beyond the next 10 years. Which makes them a passing fad, in my opinion. Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
This is where it becomes relevant to IxD, in my mind. Every time Facebook has tried to change the design to open a space for revenue generating functionality, the users have borked. The users have made it clear they don't want ads in their feeds. They don't want Facebook using them as a sales reference (Your buddy, Jared, just bought shoes at Amazon -- you should too!). They want to stay connected, but not pay for that privilege. Jared brings up the everpresent, and hugely important question. How -does- one monetize this kind of service? It seems that more and more web 2.0 (cringe) companies are following the get-users-first-then-monetize model, but with no apparent idea of how to actually jump from A to B (underwear gnomes, anyone?) without alienating users. Is there enough advertising revenue out there to pay for our favorite web apps? Is advertising revenue even a feasible solution for some of these apps? This reminds me on a few years back when Salon.com (which I admit I don't read much except for articles by Paglia) was going down the tubes, tried a pay-subscription based solution (which didn't work) and ended up shifting its model. And here's the other frustrating question: Why -shouldn't- users be ok with advertising? Yeah, it is annoying. I hate it too, but for a free service, I mean... someone has to pay the bills. Is this all a market maturity issue? Are monetize-later ventures acclimating users to the idea that they shouldn't have to pay for services (via advertising or cash) and hence hurting their own chances of jumping to a profitable model later? I think this issue is going to keep coming up, but the chickens will come home to roost, and probably sooner rather than later considering the economic climate. Someone is going to say where's the money loudly enough, and then there's going to be some change. I'm vaguely worried about the Dutch Tulip market scenario, although of course, that metaphor is tortured, unapt, and possibly not fit for this scenario. But in general, we have a questions of how much users are willing to pay (in money, attention, and time) for services that are currently presented as free. It is indeed an IxD issue how to capture eyes without annoying eyes. I boggle at it. -Damon Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Damon Dimmick wrote: This reminds me on a few years back when Salon.com (which I admit I don't read much except for articles by Paglia) was going down the tubes, tried a pay-subscription based solution (which didn't work) and ended up shifting its model. Salon still has paid memberships, you get to read the site sans ads. I'm not sure I'd pay for FB, tho. -- jet / KG6ZVQ http://www.flatline.net pgp: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Would you be willing to watch similar ads at log-in time? Just curious. -Damon j. eric townsend wrote: Damon Dimmick wrote: This reminds me on a few years back when Salon.com (which I admit I don't read much except for articles by Paglia) was going down the tubes, tried a pay-subscription based solution (which didn't work) and ended up shifting its model. Salon still has paid memberships, you get to read the site sans ads. I'm not sure I'd pay for FB, tho. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
For Facebook or Salon? I (willingly) pay for Salon as part of a package deal, in part so I don't have to wade through ads. For FB? I dunno. They can't even implement a model that keeps me logged in correctly, I'm not sure I'd tolerate ads on top of that. However, I get little value out of FB, especially when compared to the value I get out of Salon's news/entertainment articles. Damon Dimmick wrote: Would you be willing to watch similar ads at log-in time? Just curious. -Damon j. eric townsend wrote: Damon Dimmick wrote: This reminds me on a few years back when Salon.com (which I admit I don't read much except for articles by Paglia) was going down the tubes, tried a pay-subscription based solution (which didn't work) and ended up shifting its model. Salon still has paid memberships, you get to read the site sans ads. I'm not sure I'd pay for FB, tho. -- jet / KG6ZVQ http://www.flatline.net pgp: 0xD0D8C2E8 AC9B 0A23 C61A 1B4A 27C5 F799 A681 3C11 D0D8 C2E8 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
This is where it becomes relevant to IxD, in my mind. Every time Facebook has tried to change the design to open a space for revenue generating functionality, the users have borked. The users have made it clear they don't want ads in their feeds. They don't want Facebook using them as a sales reference (Your buddy, Jared, just bought shoes at Amazon -- you should too!). They want to stay connected, but not pay for that privilege. (Twitter, btw, has the same issue.) So, I don't think they are obsolete. But I don't think they'll make it beyond the next 10 years. Which makes them a passing fad, in my opinion. Jared This is a interesting observation, a bit similar with previous discussion on Death of Pandora, but frankly speaking, i would like to pay pandora's service cause it really make my music life better. For Facebook, as you said, the user will be bothered, if Facebook get use of your personal relationship, which means 1. yes, it's useful 2. but, don't bother me by get use of my private infomation A more interesting model maybe, use the relationship as a foundation of some service, instead of make money directly on it, like, interests group (music experience sharing, other stuffs, ...), and it's more solid to build some bussiness on, by which the recommend mechanism is critical. Cheers, -- Jarod -- http://designforuse.blogspot.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sep 21, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Jarod Tang wrote: A more interesting model maybe, use the relationship as a foundation of some service, instead of make money directly on it, like, interests group (music experience sharing, other stuffs, ...), and it's more solid to build some bussiness on, by which the recommend mechanism is critical. yes, well, easier said than done. Monetizing that to meet their $15,000,000,000 valuation (or whatever the investors think they are worth today) will be really quite tricky. Jared Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
A more interesting model maybe, use the relationship as a foundation of some service, instead of make money directly on it, like, interests group (music experience sharing, other stuffs, ...), and it's more solid to build some bussiness on, by which the recommend mechanism is critical. yes, well, easier said than done. Monetizing that to meet their $15,000,000,000 valuation (or whatever the investors think they are worth today) will be really quite tricky. Yes, first interaction design is always for/from strategy/business model, and it's hard to decide or change. Barriers more comes from inside instead of outside, especially for interaction design(But for FB issues, it's more like a strategy problem instead of a common-sense interaction design issue.). Cheers, -- Jarod -- http://designforuse.blogspot.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I think the new front page is completely brilliant. I'm less certain about the profile page. These two pages are the heart and soul of facebook. The homepage is more people-centric than ever, and highly engaging and actionable. The profile page, however, seems to wrested some individual expression from the user, and that is worth them complaining about. Self-expression is a powerful need in a social network, and it's what catpulted MySpace into the seat of power in the first place. On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 8:10 AM, David Malouf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry, but the cynicism is quite startling here. Can't it just be as simple as 'ambient intimacy'? It's a different model than Twitter or Plurk, but it really feels the same to me. Further, it is feature rich in a very approachable way for people like grandmas and uncles without the creepiness that many feel about twitter. My wife refuses for that reason, but Facebook is fine (to me it is creepier). Further with the application layer, it is also so much more: 1. games 2. politics 3. information gathering through the social network (i.e. I have a subway status application) 4. Event management 5. Photo link sharing 6. Blogging It is all there and for those with deep social networks there (they've reached their critical mass) it totally makes sense. Now someone brought up the permanent issue. Can it move? OF COURSE! the teens left AOL for MySpace in a heartbeat and college students for Facebook. Many are leaving Yahoo Groups and Google Groups for facebook now. Can someone else come in and be a google to facebook's alta vista? SURE! And I HOPE SO. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
FWIW, I blogged on it some weeks ago with the intent to compare the differences between the two. It wasn't a comprehensive review by any means but once I saw it I felt like it needed to be done ASAP before I got too caught up in other things like client projects. Clearly, everyone has an opinion on this matter, I have one too... http://blogs.nitobi.com/chris/ Hasta, Chris . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Genuine question: People are saying that facebook is obsolete Why? What supplanted it? jeff lippiatt wrote: Weighing in. Facebook became obsolete a while ago. Soon to become the relic of Yahoo, aka Geocities. All of these sites will eventually fail unless they address something of value. Currently they are all riding the plummet of social entertainment. They have mainly ignored their core audiences: Myspace was music, Facebook was college students and grad students. Both have annoying advertisements that have no context...just battering people over the head to make advertising money on which is steadily declining...How long do you really need to stay on either site to catch up? Not long, because all of the new changes you can get a snapshot of everything now in under 5 minutes. That leaves no incentive to stay on the site. All the widgets and mini-apps that bog down both sites are 99% pointless because people just add and delete them sometimes within hours or minutes. In summation, you can't please everyone any of the time. They abandoned their niches and have been sliding downhill since. Social entertainment is not robust enough to keep users online and engaged. I use both Myspace and Facebook, but am not pleased with either. I use them mostly for keeping up with friends and birthdays and posting pictures of my some what ridiculous but fun cooking antics. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Can't agree more on this. I also doubt if it's really make the user's life better ( on keep relationship, yes) from the begining. Cheers, -- Jarod On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:23 PM, jeff lippiatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Weighing in. Facebook became obsolete a while ago. Soon to become the relic of Yahoo, aka Geocities. All of these sites will eventually fail unless they address something of value. Currently they are all riding the plummet of social entertainment. They have mainly ignored their core audiences: Myspace was music, Facebook was college students and grad students. Both have annoying advertisements that have no context...just battering people over the head to make advertising money on which is steadily declining...How long do you really need to stay on either site to catch up? Not long, because all of the new changes you can get a snapshot of everything now in under 5 minutes. That leaves no incentive to stay on the site. All the widgets and mini-apps that bog down both sites are 99% pointless because people just add and delete them sometimes within hours or minutes. In summation, you can't please everyone any of the time. They abandoned their niches and have been sliding downhill since. Social entertainment is not robust enough to keep users online and engaged. I use both Myspace and Facebook, but am not pleased with either. I use them mostly for keeping up with friends and birthdays and posting pictures of my some what ridiculous but fun cooking antics. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- http://designforuse.blogspot.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Damon Dimmick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Genuine question: People are saying that facebook is obsolete Why? What supplanted it? It's not a issue on replacement, but more on if it make people's everyday better, for e.g., by google, you could easily searching for the information you want, by amazon, you want to get the object you interested. By facebook, you want to have friends, yes, keep relationships ( for what?), And it's good to have keep friendship and share experience, and that's all. The sites does good job on this, and it's not enough to say it's a game changing stuff. What'll be next phenomenon? It definitely should be some one that make people's life better, like google dose. Like a better traveling experience, a better city life, a life long better education , etc. And safe food service ( for e.g. , taking into account current food safety issue from China and Japan) , a better energy friendly living system, etc. The chances are open. Cheers, -- Jarod jeff lippiatt wrote: Weighing in. Facebook became obsolete a while ago. Soon to become the relic of Yahoo, aka Geocities. All of these sites will eventually fail unless they address something of value. Currently they are all riding the plummet of social entertainment. They have mainly ignored their core audiences: Myspace was music, Facebook was college students and grad students. Both have annoying advertisements that have no context...just battering people over the head to make advertising money on which is steadily declining...How long do you really need to stay on either site to catch up? Not long, because all of the new changes you can get a snapshot of everything now in under 5 minutes. That leaves no incentive to stay on the site. All the widgets and mini-apps that bog down both sites are 99% pointless because people just add and delete them sometimes within hours or minutes. In summation, you can't please everyone any of the time. They abandoned their niches and have been sliding downhill since. Social entertainment is not robust enough to keep users online and engaged. I use both Myspace and Facebook, but am not pleased with either. I use them mostly for keeping up with friends and birthdays and posting pictures of my some what ridiculous but fun cooking antics. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- http://designforuse.blogspot.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I think I get what you are saying, but I disagree on the idea of google fulfilling all the needs of facebook. Sure, it can, if all your contacts maintain a website and you fancy searching for their info, one at a time, every time you are interested. I'm not saying that facebook is game changing, but it does allow for passive keeping in touch, which is exactly what most people want out of their non-central relationships. When it comes to second order friends, we all generally want to keep abreast of their lives and be able to jump in when something interests us, otherwise stay clear without any negatives. Facebook allows the kind of active/passive dichotomy that is perfect for people who don't have the energy to keep in constant active contact with their networks. You don't have to take part, you don't have to be engaged, but you can see what's going on, and if you like it or it interests you, you can reach out. As far as I know, facebook is almost the ideal scenario for this kind of user goal, and I don't know if there are other technologies that meet that need as effectively or efficiently. There are other sites that do similar things, and they are all contenders, but currently facebook seems the best suited this particular kind of interaction. And I would argue that this need for passive contact is actually something that many of us, maybe a majority of us, intrinsically have. There are certainly other technologies that dance well around this idea (twitter, general IM, your basic web log) but facebook's advantage is bifurcated: it requires little effort to broadcast, and even less effort to receive. My mother would probably never twitter, but facebook she understands. My nephew, who's all lightning-fast thumbs and text skill, still uses it too, because it's easier than sending a message to each of his 187 friends. I would therefore argue that calling something obsolete because other choices are available isn't sufficient. I mean, the skateboard is another choice for getting around a city, but does that make car's obsolete? For true obsolescence to occur, there must be a better way to accomplish the goal that the newly-obsolete technology addresses, and this better way must make the original choice more costly (in a games theory sense of utility) than the new technology in so far as satisfying that user goal. It's certainly possible to keep up with your network via google searches, twitters, emails, IMs etc. Or, you could just log onto Facebook and see what's going on with most of your contacts in one fell swoop by scanning a single page. The energy required to satisfy the goal of keeping up with my extended network is far lower when I use facebook than when I use a constellation of other technologies. If and when that changes, facebook may well become obsolete, but so far it seems to be the better solution. However, if we're just talking about trends and such, well, then sure, Facebook may be moving towards obsolescence (if you believe it has crested or jumped the shark). But still, that implies something better coming along. Just my thoughts. -Damon Jarod Tang wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Damon Dimmick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Genuine question: People are saying that facebook is obsolete Why? What supplanted it? It's not a issue on replacement, but more on if it make people's everyday better, for e.g., by google, you could easily searching for the information you want, by amazon, you want to get the object you interested. By facebook, you want to have friends, yes, keep relationships ( for what?), And it's good to have keep friendship and share experience, and that's all. The sites does good job on this, and it's not enough to say it's a game changing stuff. What'll be next phenomenon? It definitely should be some one that make people's life better, like google dose. Like a better traveling experience, a better city life, a life long better education , etc. And safe food service ( for e.g. , taking into account current food safety issue from China and Japan) , a better energy friendly living system, etc. The chances are open. Cheers, -- Jarod jeff lippiatt wrote: Weighing in. Facebook became obsolete a while ago. Soon to become the relic of Yahoo, aka Geocities. All of these sites will eventually fail unless they address something of value. Currently they are all riding the plummet of social entertainment. They have mainly ignored their core audiences: Myspace was music, Facebook was college students and grad students. Both have annoying advertisements that have no context...just battering people over the head to make advertising money on which is steadily declining...How long do you really need to stay on either site to catch up? Not long, because all of the new changes you can get a snapshot of everything now in under 5 minutes. That leaves no incentive to stay on the site. All the widgets and mini-apps that bog down
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Hi Damon, On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Damon Dimmick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I get what you are saying, but I disagree on the idea of google fulfilling all the needs of facebook. Sure, it can, if all your contacts maintain a website and you fancy searching for their info, one at a time, every time you are interested. Maybe my refer to google leads the confusing, here for google example, i set to say it makes life better. I'm not saying that facebook is game changing, but it does allow for passive keeping in touch, which is exactly what most people want out of their non-central relationships. When it comes to second order friends, we all generally want to keep abreast of their lives and be able to jump in when something interests us, otherwise stay clear without any negatives. Facebook allows the kind of active/passive dichotomy that is perfect for people who don't have the energy to keep in constant active contact with their networks. You don't have to take part, you don't have to be engaged, but you can see what's going on, and if you like it or it interests you, you can reach out. As far as I know, facebook is almost the ideal scenario for this kind of user goal, and I don't know if there are other technologies that meet that need as effectively or efficiently. There are other sites that do similar things, and they are all contenders, but currently facebook seems the best suited this particular kind of interaction. And I would argue that this need for passive contact is actually something that many of us, maybe a majority of us, intrinsically have. There are certainly other technologies that dance well around this idea (twitter, general IM, your basic web log) but facebook's advantage is bifurcated: it requires little effort to broadcast, and even less effort to receive. My mother would probably never twitter, but facebook she understands. My nephew, who's all lightning-fast thumbs and text skill, still uses it too, because it's easier than sending a message to each of his 187 friends. Ah, it maybe depends on the culture/area difference. For myself, I have facebook account and MySpace account, but use it very few, and also found this from my friends. And IM serves the relationship keeper well for this case. [But I agree Facebook/MySpace/Linkden do well on the relationship keeping.] I would therefore argue that calling something obsolete because other choices are available isn't sufficient. I mean, the skateboard is another choice for getting around a city, but does that make car's obsolete? For true obsolescence to occur, there must be a better way to accomplish the goal that the newly-obsolete technology addresses, and this better way must make the original choice more costly (in a games theory sense of utility) than the new technology in so far as satisfying that user goal. Agree fully. It's certainly possible to keep up with your network via google searches, twitters, emails, IMs etc. Or, you could just log onto Facebook and see what's going on with most of your contacts in one fell swoop by scanning a single page. The energy required to satisfy the goal of keeping up with my extended network is far lower when I use facebook than when I use a constellation of other technologies. If and when that changes, facebook may well become obsolete, but so far it seems to be the better solution. However, if we're just talking about trends and such, well, then sure, Facebook may be moving towards obsolescence (if you believe it has crested or jumped the shark). But still, that implies something better coming along. Just my thoughts. -Damon Jarod Tang wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Damon Dimmick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Genuine question: People are saying that facebook is obsolete Why? What supplanted it? It's not a issue on replacement, but more on if it make people's everyday better, for e.g., by google, you could easily searching for the information you want, by amazon, you want to get the object you interested. By facebook, you want to have friends, yes, keep relationships ( for what?), And it's good to have keep friendship and share experience, and that's all. The sites does good job on this, and it's not enough to say it's a game changing stuff. What'll be next phenomenon? It definitely should be some one that make people's life better, like google dose. Like a better traveling experience, a better city life, a life long better education , etc. And safe food service ( for e.g. , taking into account current food safety issue from China and Japan) , a better energy friendly living system, etc. The chances are open. Cheers, -- Jarod jeff lippiatt wrote: Weighing in. Facebook became obsolete a while ago. Soon to become the relic of Yahoo, aka Geocities. All of these sites will eventually fail unless they address something of value. Currently they are all riding the plummet of social
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
That's very interesting. You are right, it may be cultura. I have never used my Myspace account, not really anyway. I resisted the myspace surge and was always interested in orkut / friendster until I found facebook, so perhaps there's a relative difference. Interesting point, Jarod. I would therefore argue that calling something obsolete because other choices are available isn't sufficient. I mean, the skateboard is another choice for getting around a city, but does that make car's obsolete? For true obsolescence to occur, there must be a better way to accomplish the goal that the newly-obsolete technology addresses, and this better way must make the original choice more costly (in a games theory sense of utility) than the new technology in so far as satisfying that user goal. Agree fully. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
The primary goal is getting concerned with the lives of others. Listen to McLuhan opinion on global village (AKA Facebook) at 15 minutes in this TED talk on rivalry between TV and computers. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/peter_hirshberg_on_tv_and_the_web.html I call this primary goal gossip. -- Oleh Kovalchuke Interaction Design is design of time http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 4:24 PM, Oleh Kovalchuke [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Will Evans wrote: What are the top three user goals when they go onto facebook? 1. Gossip 2. Boasting 3. Kvetching 4. (bonus) Stalking And just like gossip, the Facebook is not going away any time soon. Will, think about personas, not about yourself. Cheers, Oleh Kovalchuke Interaction Design is design of time http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I'm sorry, but the cynicism is quite startling here. Can't it just be as simple as 'ambient intimacy'? It's a different model than Twitter or Plurk, but it really feels the same to me. Further, it is feature rich in a very approachable way for people like grandmas and uncles without the creepiness that many feel about twitter. My wife refuses for that reason, but Facebook is fine (to me it is creepier). Further with the application layer, it is also so much more: 1. games 2. politics 3. information gathering through the social network (i.e. I have a subway status application) 4. Event management 5. Photo link sharing 6. Blogging It is all there and for those with deep social networks there (they've reached their critical mass) it totally makes sense. Now someone brought up the permanent issue. Can it move? OF COURSE! the teens left AOL for MySpace in a heartbeat and college students for Facebook. Many are leaving Yahoo Groups and Google Groups for facebook now. Can someone else come in and be a google to facebook's alta vista? SURE! And I HOPE SO. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
So to step back for a moment, to think about real audiences, users, communities, vibrant cybercultures, and how dare they presume to exist and use tools without our benevolent blessing and permission! What nerve of them! G How dare those cats resist our herding! Well said Christine. People have a tendency to forget the user in Interaction Design. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Personally, doesn't matter. Facebook is 15 minutes ago. Facebook is useless. Facebook just doesn't have the decency to realize that it is Friendster 5 years ago. On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 2:43 PM, live [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What say you, people of IXDA? What say you of the new Facebook design? What of the usability of this new look? What of the spacing? Is it efficient? Are the tabs necessary? Or did you like to, with just one look, understand a person's personal and professional life completely? More importantly, with the myriad of complaints of said new design, will this bring the downfall of Facebook here in the US? Into the halls of history along with Tribe, Friendster, Orkut? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Many many introductory products eventually become merely a feature of a more purposed product they are piggybacking upon. There are countless examples of this in technology. My space and linkedin represent purposed social sites... they facilitate finding new music (or being found) and building professional networks. The real power of social networks is as attached to a goal, passion or need. I participate on facebook minimally as my family and some coworkers become acquainted with the social web, but I am not sure there is much else here. It is an interesting and effective way to reconnect with lost friends from high school and college. So Will... have you moved on to Plaxo? On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Will Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, doesn't matter. Facebook is 15 minutes ago. Facebook is useless. Facebook just doesn't have the decency to realize that it is Friendster 5 years ago. On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 2:43 PM, live [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What say you, people of IXDA? What say you of the new Facebook design? What of the usability of this new look? What of the spacing? Is it efficient? Are the tabs necessary? Or did you like to, with just one look, understand a person's personal and professional life completely? More importantly, with the myriad of complaints of said new design, will this bring the downfall of Facebook here in the US? Into the halls of history along with Tribe, Friendster, Orkut? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Weighing in. Facebook became obsolete a while ago. Soon to become the relic of Yahoo, aka Geocities. All of these sites will eventually fail unless they address something of value. Currently they are all riding the plummet of social entertainment. They have mainly ignored their core audiences: Myspace was music, Facebook was college students and grad students. Both have annoying advertisements that have no context...just battering people over the head to make advertising money on which is steadily declining...How long do you really need to stay on either site to catch up? Not long, because all of the new changes you can get a snapshot of everything now in under 5 minutes. That leaves no incentive to stay on the site. All the widgets and mini-apps that bog down both sites are 99% pointless because people just add and delete them sometimes within hours or minutes. In summation, you can't please everyone any of the time. They abandoned their niches and have been sliding downhill since. Social entertainment is not robust enough to keep users online and engaged. I use both Myspace and Facebook, but am not pleased with either. I use them mostly for keeping up with friends and birthdays and posting pictures of my some what ridiculous but fun cooking antics. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Facebook is just now becoming relevant to a mainstream audience--something no other social network has done before. Their traffic and membership continue to grow at a pretty good clip. I don't have the answer for how they can monetize their traffic, but I think moving beyond college students is a smart move. Patrick Barrett -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff lippiatt Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End? Weighing in. Facebook became obsolete a while ago. Soon to become the relic of Yahoo, aka Geocities. All of these sites will eventually fail unless they address something of value. Currently they are all riding the plummet of social entertainment. They have mainly ignored their core audiences: Myspace was music, Facebook was college students and grad students. Both have annoying advertisements that have no context...just battering people over the head to make advertising money on which is steadily declining...How long do you really need to stay on either site to catch up? Not long, because all of the new changes you can get a snapshot of everything now in under 5 minutes. That leaves no incentive to stay on the site. All the widgets and mini-apps that bog down both sites are 99% pointless because people just add and delete them sometimes within hours or minutes. In summation, you can't please everyone any of the time. They abandoned their niches and have been sliding downhill since. Social entertainment is not robust enough to keep users online and engaged. I use both Myspace and Facebook, but am not pleased with either. I use them mostly for keeping up with friends and birthdays and posting pictures of my some what ridiculous but fun cooking antics. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
How are they relevant and how do you define mainstream? Everyone (except me) goes there - for what purpose? I wonder how they might monetize their eyeballs relative to others, and why they even matter? I argue they don't, and they can't. On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Patrick Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Facebook is just now becoming relevant to a mainstream audience--something no other social network has done before. Their traffic and membership continue to grow at a pretty good clip. I don't have the answer for how they can monetize their traffic, but I think moving beyond college students is a smart move. Patrick Barrett -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff lippiatt Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End? Weighing in. Facebook became obsolete a while ago. Soon to become the relic of Yahoo, aka Geocities. All of these sites will eventually fail unless they address something of value. Currently they are all riding the plummet of social entertainment. They have mainly ignored their core audiences: Myspace was music, Facebook was college students and grad students. Both have annoying advertisements that have no context...just battering people over the head to make advertising money on which is steadily declining...How long do you really need to stay on either site to catch up? Not long, because all of the new changes you can get a snapshot of everything now in under 5 minutes. That leaves no incentive to stay on the site. All the widgets and mini-apps that bog down both sites are 99% pointless because people just add and delete them sometimes within hours or minutes. In summation, you can't please everyone any of the time. They abandoned their niches and have been sliding downhill since. Social entertainment is not robust enough to keep users online and engaged. I use both Myspace and Facebook, but am not pleased with either. I use them mostly for keeping up with friends and birthdays and posting pictures of my some what ridiculous but fun cooking antics. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I think we're seeing it become more relevant as they've grown decoupled from people being On Facebook and into other services. I agree that apps and such are little blips in the overall picture, but the amount of social news (and tbh, noise) I get via integrated social networks is staggering - I can only imagine moreso for people ten years younger than me. I find statements of many of these things being obsolete to be hard to grasp for me, as I think we have the benefit of living on the edge of things and ~should~ be looking beyond. Despite this, I think it's forgetting where the rest of the online population, and the yet-to-be-online population lives. Scott On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Patrick Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Facebook is just now becoming relevant to a mainstream audience--something no other social network has done before. Their traffic and membership continue to grow at a pretty good clip. I don't have the answer for how they can monetize their traffic, but I think moving beyond college students is a smart move. Patrick Barrett -- * It's very important to know when you're in a pissing match. And it's very important to get out of it as quickly as possible. - Randy Pausch Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I'm in my late 30s and just signed up for Facebook. I'm also seeing many people in my age range signing up including friends I haven't talked to in 10 years. Although it's much less relevant to my life since Scrabulous is gone it is still a compelling site. The draw is completely related to the network of friends and, as such, the new design is irrelevant. Cheers, Julie On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Will Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: How are they relevant and how do you define mainstream? Everyone (except me) goes there - for what purpose? I wonder how they might monetize their eyeballs relative to others, and why they even matter? I argue they don't, and they can't. On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Patrick Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Facebook is just now becoming relevant to a mainstream audience--something no other social network has done before. Their traffic and membership continue to grow at a pretty good clip. I don't have the answer for how they can monetize their traffic, but I think moving beyond college students is a smart move. Patrick Barrett -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff lippiatt Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End? Weighing in. Facebook became obsolete a while ago. Soon to become the relic of Yahoo, aka Geocities. All of these sites will eventually fail unless they address something of value. Currently they are all riding the plummet of social entertainment. They have mainly ignored their core audiences: Myspace was music, Facebook was college students and grad students. Both have annoying advertisements that have no context...just battering people over the head to make advertising money on which is steadily declining...How long do you really need to stay on either site to catch up? Not long, because all of the new changes you can get a snapshot of everything now in under 5 minutes. That leaves no incentive to stay on the site. All the widgets and mini-apps that bog down both sites are 99% pointless because people just add and delete them sometimes within hours or minutes. In summation, you can't please everyone any of the time. They abandoned their niches and have been sliding downhill since. Social entertainment is not robust enough to keep users online and engaged. I use both Myspace and Facebook, but am not pleased with either. I use them mostly for keeping up with friends and birthdays and posting pictures of my some what ridiculous but fun cooking antics. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
So an address book? On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Patrick Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: They are relevant in that they provide a platform for everyone to get and stay connected with anyone they have ever known. I am defining mainstream as non cutting edge (read fickle) users. By appealing to tech laggards there is less risk that they suffer the fate of Friendster. Inertia will work in their favor. Patrick V. Barrett From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Will Evans Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:36 AM To: Patrick Barrett Cc: jeff lippiatt; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End? How are they relevant and how do you define mainstream? Everyone (except me) goes there - for what purpose? I wonder how they might monetize their eyeballs relative to others, and why they even matter? I argue they don't, and they can't. On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Patrick Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Facebook is just now becoming relevant to a mainstream audience--something no other social network has done before. Their traffic and membership continue to grow at a pretty good clip. I don't have the answer for how they can monetize their traffic, but I think moving beyond college students is a smart move. Patrick Barrett -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of jeff lippiatt Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End? Weighing in. Facebook became obsolete a while ago. Soon to become the relic of Yahoo, aka Geocities. All of these sites will eventually fail unless they address something of value. Currently they are all riding the plummet of social entertainment. They have mainly ignored their core audiences: Myspace was music, Facebook was college students and grad students. Both have annoying advertisements that have no context...just battering people over the head to make advertising money on which is steadily declining...How long do you really need to stay on either site to catch up? Not long, because all of the new changes you can get a snapshot of everything now in under 5 minutes. That leaves no incentive to stay on the site. All the widgets and mini-apps that bog down both sites are 99% pointless because people just add and delete them sometimes within hours or minutes. In summation, you can't please everyone any of the time. They abandoned their niches and have been sliding downhill since. Social entertainment is not robust enough to keep users online and engaged. I use both Myspace and Facebook, but am not pleased with either. I use them mostly for keeping up with friends and birthdays and posting pictures of my some what ridiculous but fun cooking antics. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.orghttp://ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
They are relevant in that they provide a platform for everyone to get and stay connected with anyone they have ever known. I am defining mainstream as non cutting edge (read fickle) users. By appealing to tech laggards there is less risk that they suffer the fate of Friendster. Inertia will work in their favor. Patrick V. Barrett From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Will Evans Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:36 AM To: Patrick Barrett Cc: jeff lippiatt; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End? How are they relevant and how do you define mainstream? Everyone (except me) goes there - for what purpose? I wonder how they might monetize their eyeballs relative to others, and why they even matter? I argue they don't, and they can't. On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Patrick Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Facebook is just now becoming relevant to a mainstream audience--something no other social network has done before. Their traffic and membership continue to grow at a pretty good clip. I don't have the answer for how they can monetize their traffic, but I think moving beyond college students is a smart move. Patrick Barrett -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of jeff lippiatt Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End? Weighing in. Facebook became obsolete a while ago. Soon to become the relic of Yahoo, aka Geocities. All of these sites will eventually fail unless they address something of value. Currently they are all riding the plummet of social entertainment. They have mainly ignored their core audiences: Myspace was music, Facebook was college students and grad students. Both have annoying advertisements that have no context...just battering people over the head to make advertising money on which is steadily declining...How long do you really need to stay on either site to catch up? Not long, because all of the new changes you can get a snapshot of everything now in under 5 minutes. That leaves no incentive to stay on the site. All the widgets and mini-apps that bog down both sites are 99% pointless because people just add and delete them sometimes within hours or minutes. In summation, you can't please everyone any of the time. They abandoned their niches and have been sliding downhill since. Social entertainment is not robust enough to keep users online and engaged. I use both Myspace and Facebook, but am not pleased with either. I use them mostly for keeping up with friends and birthdays and posting pictures of my some what ridiculous but fun cooking antics. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.orghttp://ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Wow. I can't believe quite a few of you are so ready to piss on Facebook. I find it quite incredible! Do people really hate their past relationships so much that they have to hate everything about Facebook? I also don't see the relevance of Geocities - I've never heard of them other than possibly being a Yahoo entity of some sort. I think there's something to be said of Facebook and its success of bringing people back together after many years. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
My address book never enabled people I didn't want to remember from high school to give me daily updates on their political views and dog's eczema, okay? Scott On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Will Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So an address book? -- * It's very important to know when you're in a pissing match. And it's very important to get out of it as quickly as possible. - Randy Pausch Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
I am sure that in some twisted parallel universe where there are no books to read, ideas to explore, things to build, people to meet, Facebook is really compelling. Really. On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Scott McDaniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My address book never enabled people I didn't want to remember from high school to give me daily updates on their political views and dog's eczema, okay? Scott On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Will Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So an address book? -- * It's very important to know when you're in a pissing match. And it's very important to get out of it as quickly as possible. - Randy Pausch Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
What are the top three user goals when they go onto facebook? Super-poking? Is that a goal? On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Benjamin Ho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow. I can't believe quite a few of you are so ready to piss on Facebook. I find it quite incredible! Do people really hate their past relationships so much that they have to hate everything about Facebook? I also don't see the relevance of Geocities - I've never heard of them other than possibly being a Yahoo entity of some sort. I think there's something to be said of Facebook and its success of bringing people back together after many years. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.128 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill | gtalk: wkevans4 twitter: semanticwill | skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
We're obviously stepping on some deep-seated stuff here, so I'll bow out. Scott On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Will Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sure that in some twisted parallel universe where there are no books to read, ideas to explore, things to build, people to meet, Facebook is really compelling. Really. On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Scott McDaniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My address book never enabled people I didn't want to remember from high school to give me daily updates on their political views and dog's eczema, okay? Scott -- * It's very important to know when you're in a pissing match. And it's very important to get out of it as quickly as possible. - Randy Pausch Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] The New Facebook Redesign: The Beginning of The End?
Yahoo's old school Geocities, is relevant because it was one of the first pushes to have personal homepages it was supposed to be basically what facebook is but 10 years ago, without all the apps, widgets, social connections. It was more like Myspace in the sense that it was a WYSIWYG editor format that looked down right terrible. Which is why myspace can be completely an eyesore when people start doing the clip art and loading widgets that eat your bandwidth, and if Facebook opens up anymore and lets users start doing that as well, their plummet will speed up. Just because both services are making lots of money does not mean they are doing things correctly at all. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=33019 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
