date:20140504

Larry,

The cable only needs to contain pins 2, 3 and 5 (TXD, RXD and Signal
Ground). They should be wired straight through (nor crossover).

Everything on K3 Utility is greyed out because the communications with
the K3 is not complete.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/4/2014 2:33 AM, Larry Lopez wrote:

Hi Pierfranceso:

I didn't know what it was but it seemed unusually light.
It worked better than the original but it din't work.

I looked up the part number and a Russian web page
show it was simple cable with no parts and strange connections.

I knew they were strange but not this strange.

I'll get or make a real cable tomorrow if I can.
Otherwise I'll get it from ebay or elecraft.

Thank you for you for your concern.
Larry

Pierfrancesco Caci [via Elecraft] wrote:

Larry == Larry Lopez [hidden email]

/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodenode=7588481i=0 writes:

if with APC connection cable you mean the ones used on UPSes by APC,
be careful that they are not plain rs232, they have some circuitry
molded in the connector. At least mine does.

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Re: [Elecraft] Operator error or hardware fault?

Hi Kjeld,

Try changing the CONFIG:L-MIX-R setting.  The default is main left,
sub right.  You'll have to enable TECH MD before you can get to this
CONFIG setting.

73,
matt W6NIA


On Sun, 4 May 2014 12:30:30 +0200, you wrote:

Dear folks,

 

My Elecraft K3 with sub receiver suddenly is performing differently. I am
not aware of having done any changes to any settings at the exact time of
this change of performance (but of course I can have done something without
knowing/remembering).

Normally after activating SUB I have the main receiver in my left ear and
the sub receiver in my right ear. Now I have both (of course different)
signals in both ears at the same time (maybe a bit lower volume in my left
ear). 

Also I normally hear the monitor signal (MON) with a pleasant volume with a
setting of 14. Now I have to select max volume (60) to be able to just hear
the monitor signal. This is true for both SSB and CW (yes separate
settings).

From the SPKRS connector I have a stereo cable to a special device which is
sending the signal to my hearing aids. I also tried connecting external
speakers, which did not change anything. Also I have connected external
speakers to a PHONES connector (on the front). And yes I have selected both
speakers and phones in the configuration menu. 

The problem with the monitor signal seems to disappear when I am using the
internal speaker only. 

But of course using the internal speaker only cannot give me separation of
the signals from the main receiver and the sub receiver. 

After encountering both of these problems I have reloaded two different very
old configuration files. They did not solve any of the problems.

Do I have a hardware fault? Or are there any settings that are not
influenced by restoring a configuration file?

Best regards OZ1CCM Kel Kjeld Holm

 

 

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spend the first four sharpening the axe. -A. Lincoln
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Re: [Elecraft] Operator error or hardware fault?

2014-05-04 Thread Tom

Hi
Check your settings for L  MiX R.  and AF  Level.  Sounds like the defaults are 
loaded. Why? Good question. 
73s 




 Original message 
From: Kjeld Holm k...@kh-translation.dk 
Date: 04/05/2014  06:30  (GMT-05:00) 
To: elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: [Elecraft] Operator error or hardware fault? 
 
Dear folks,



My Elecraft K3 with sub receiver suddenly is performing differently. I am
not aware of having done any changes to any settings at the exact time of
this change of performance (but of course I can have done something without
knowing/remembering).

Normally after activating SUB I have the main receiver in my left ear and
the sub receiver in my right ear. Now I have both (of course different)
signals in both ears at the same time (maybe a bit lower volume in my left
ear). 

Also I normally hear the monitor signal (MON) with a pleasant volume with a
setting of 14. Now I have to select max volume (60) to be able to just hear
the monitor signal. This is true for both SSB and CW (yes separate
settings).

From the SPKRS connector I have a stereo cable to a special device which is
sending the signal to my hearing aids. I also tried connecting external
speakers, which did not change anything. Also I have connected external
speakers to a PHONES connector (on the front). And yes I have selected both
speakers and phones in the configuration menu. 

The problem with the monitor signal seems to disappear when I am using the
internal speaker only. 

But of course using the internal speaker only cannot give me separation of
the signals from the main receiver and the sub receiver. 

After encountering both of these problems I have reloaded two different very
old configuration files. They did not solve any of the problems.

Do I have a hardware fault? Or are there any settings that are not
influenced by restoring a configuration file?

Best regards OZ1CCM Kel Kjeld Holm





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[Elecraft] MDS practical measuring?

2014-05-04 Thread Brian Alsop


It was time to drag out the test gear and give my older K3 a going over.

One thing of interest was Minimum Detectible Signal.

There is a WIKI definition for it but the equation doesn't help me a bit.

I just thought I'd attach a calibrated signal generator and keep 
reducing the level (for a 500 Hz bandwidth) until I couldn't hear it.
That doesn't seems subjective since the signal generator is a constant 
tone and not information to decode.


Then I tried looking at Spectrogram and defining a minimum S/N ratio 
which would define MDS.  The MDS values derived this way were much lower 
for a 6 dB S/N ratio.  In fact, I couldn't hear the signal at this S/N 
ratio!  The integration time constant used for averaging clearly was 
helping with detection.  So what time constant would be appropriate for 
normal CW?


How indeed is MDS measured quantitively?

73 de Brian/K3KO


-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3722/6937 - Release Date: 05/03/14

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Re: [Elecraft] MDS practical measuring?

2014-05-04 Thread John Oppenheimer

The XG3 manual
http://www.elecraft.com/manual/XG3%20Owner%27s%20Manual%20Rev%20D.pdf

Documents a technique to estimate MDS on page 15.

John KN5L

On 05/04/2014 07:34 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:
 How indeed is MDS measured quantitively?
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[Elecraft] Garbled K2 SSB Signals

2014-05-04 Thread dale

I completed my K2 earlier this week and everything seems to be working
great. However, I have discovered one problem. Received SSB signals from
7180 to 7185 kHz are garbled even with the NB and preamp off. Thus far I
haven't observed this problem on any other frequency. Any ideas what may be
causing this?

 

Dale, K4EQ

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Re: [Elecraft] Garbled K2 SSB Signals


Dale,

That is an old problem often referred to as WAOF (Weird At One Frequency).
That frequency region is where the PLL frequency and the VFO frequencies 
cross.  Those two signals can couple together producing the condition 
that you observe.  The fix is to reduce the opportunity for those 
signals to couple together.


Make certain that C88 on the bottom of the RF board soldered between 
pins 12 and 13 of U4 is on the correct pins and has the shortest 
possible leads.  Also the length of the leads for RFC15 and C91 should 
be as short as possible at the connection point with U4 pin 16.


If that does not take care of it, flush cut all pins and component leads 
in the vicinity of U4 and U6 including the R-paks to eliminate anything 
that could act as an antenna.  Also above the board make certain the 
varactors and capacitors in the VFO and PLL area are seated completely 
down on the board - long leads will cause the signals to couple together.


The last gentleman who had this problem reported that the above efforts 
did not stop it entirely, but when he covered the U4 area with 
electrical tape, the problem went away.  Now, I can't explain why the 
electrical tape would have that effect, but give it a try.


73,
Don W3FPR


On 5/4/2014 9:11 AM, d...@k4eq.net wrote:

I completed my K2 earlier this week and everything seems to be working
great. However, I have discovered one problem. Received SSB signals from
7180 to 7185 kHz are garbled even with the NB and preamp off. Thus far I
haven't observed this problem on any other frequency. Any ideas what may be
causing this?



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Kit Wisdom

2014-05-04 Thread Jerome Sodus

To be on the safe side, wear only cotton clothing; no wool or synthetic
clothes.
Cotton will be least likely to pick-up any charges.
73 Jerry KM3K   KX3 #6088 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don
Wilhelm
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 8:28 PM
To: John, 9H5G; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Kit Wisdom

John,

As for the advice about screwdrivers, yes, get yourself a quality, new 
#1 phillips.  I like the ones from Ace Hardware with the blue handles 
(Pro Series), and I like the 8 inch length, just because I learned to 
use that length many, many years ago - pick whatever length you are 
comfortable with,but do buy a quality screwdriver from a reputable 
supplier - a bargain bin screwdriver tip is usually not cut with 
adequate precision.  If you can see shiny spots on the corners of the 
tip, it is not adequate for the task, it will slip and strip your 
screwheads.  My method of judging a phillips tip driver is if it does 
not hold a 3/16 inch phillips head screw when it is held horizontally, 
it is time for that screwdriver to be replaced.

I take issue with the suggestion to use magnetic holders and the insert 
bits.  I prefer not to have any magnetic tools at my electronics 
workbench, they attract stray bits of cutoff component leads and other 
things stick to the tools.  YMMV on that one - take your pick.  I use 
several magnetic holders to great benefit in the woodworking shop, but 
never at the electronics workbench.

As for anti-static, yes take measures - a wrist strap is a minimum, if 
you have an anti-static mat at the workbench, work on that surface, 
especially when handling unmounted boards.  Do NOT work on a completely 
conducting surface such as a bare metal desktop or cookie sheet, or 
aluminum foil or whatever - fully conductive surfaces can also create 
static damage when they contact that fully conductive surface and are a 
safety hazard if there are live power sources anywhere near.  Newspapers 
misted with a spray of water in addition to the wrist strap can be more 
effective than a fully conducting surface.  If you have no other 
alternative, cut open one of the black anti-static bags that the boards 
are packed in, connect it to a 1 megohm resistor with a clip lead, and 
ground the far end of the 1 megohm resistor to the center screw on an AC 
receptacle cover plate (your wrist strap can ground to the same place).

As has been said about the egg cartons, stay away from most plastic 
containers for sorting because plastics and foam stuff attracts a static 
charge.  If you need to sort the hardware into the various sizes, use 
metal tins (Altoids tins?) or paper cups.  If you are adept at spotting 
a screw size and length 'by eye', you can just dump all the hardware 
into a large box and pick the right ones from there.  Those having long 
term experience with woodworking measurements or metalworking will have 
that ability.
Make such judgements based on what you know about your abilities.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/3/2014 3:51 PM, John, 9H5G wrote:
 Gentlemen,

 Thank you for a fantastic list of hints and tips so far!

 As Gary, KI4GGX, pointed out I should have mentioned the options that I
have coming. It's a K3/100 with a KRX3 and a handful of filters. Simple but
very effective, I'm sure.

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Re: [Elecraft] MDS practical measuring?


Brian,

The traditional way to measure MDS requires the use of an audio 
voltmeter (True RMS voltmeter) a low level very well shielded oscillator 
with a known and calibrated output level and a well shielded step 
attenuator.  Any oscillator leakage will produce erroneous results.


Turn the receiver AGC off, and using the attenuator, reduce the signal 
generator output to a barely perceptible level.

Then turn the generator off and measure the receiver noise.
Now turn the generator on and adjust the attenuator to produce a 
voltmeter reading 3 dB above the level that the noise alone produced.  
The input level from the generator and attenuator combination is the MDS.


If you do not have a low level signal generator and step attenuator with 
sufficient shielding to prevent leakage, a good approximation can be 
obtained with a signal generator such as the XG3 (or XG1 or XG2) with an 
output of -107 dBm - the calculation is in the XG3, XG1 and XG2 manuals.


While not an exact MDS measurement, I routinely check the sensitivity of 
all receivers I work on.  My process uses Spectrogram to view the audio 
output.  I set my HP8640 to -130 dBm and measure how many dB on the 
Spectrogram screen that signal is above the receiver noise floor.
Caution:  My HP8640 has all internal shield covers installed and has no 
detectable leakage at -130 dBm.  Some of those generators have had the 
right rear shield cover removed and discarded to make servicing easier, 
and those generators will have significant leakage.  To check a signal 
generator (and other test setup gear) for such leakage, start with a 
higher level, then add attenuation in 10 dB steps.  If the audio (as 
observed by Spectrogram) does not drop 10 dB with each step, there is 
leakage from something.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/4/2014 8:34 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:

It was time to drag out the test gear and give my older K3 a going over.

One thing of interest was Minimum Detectible Signal.

There is a WIKI definition for it but the equation doesn't help me a bit.

I just thought I'd attach a calibrated signal generator and keep 
reducing the level (for a 500 Hz bandwidth) until I couldn't hear it.
That doesn't seems subjective since the signal generator is a constant 
tone and not information to decode.


Then I tried looking at Spectrogram and defining a minimum S/N ratio 
which would define MDS.  The MDS values derived this way were much 
lower for a 6 dB S/N ratio.  In fact, I couldn't hear the signal at 
this S/N ratio!  The integration time constant used for averaging 
clearly was helping with detection.  So what time constant would be 
appropriate for normal CW?


How indeed is MDS measured quantitively?

73 de Brian/K3KO


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[Elecraft] 2013 World Wide DX Contest SSB results

2014-05-04 Thread XE3/K5ENS via Elecraft

My personal best!
 
1st. place Mexico. 
5th. place North America.  
8th place World Wide.
 
SOAB low power
 
Not bad for a *Elecraft K3/100* with a Tri-bander and dipoles.
 
 
Keith, XE3/K5ENS



--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/2013-World-Wide-DX-Contest-SSB-results-tp7588495.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft] K3 SWR Panel Reading 1.2 - 1.

2014-05-04 Thread Bob Myers

K3 SWR Panel Reading is 1.2 - 1.

I’ve recently completed K3 S/N 8156. It’s a basic K3, 10-watt unit with the 
only option being a 250 Hz CW filter. (Of course it has the 2.7 kHz filter 
installed.) No other options. 

The K3 Panel SWR indicates 1.2 - 1 during transmit when the actual SWR is 
probably 1.0 - 1.  The 1.2 - 1 shows with a 50-ohm dummy load connected 
directly to the antenna jack of the K3 or with an antenna using a Johnson 
Matchbox adjusted to 1 - 1 using an LP-100 digital wattmeter. The dummy load 
when attached directly to a different modern transceiver at the antenna jack 
shows 1.0 - 1.

If I mistune the Johnson Matchbox, the K3 SWR indication does go up but no 
matter how I tune the Matchbox, the K3 never shows below 1.2 - 1. The Matchbox 
attached to the other modern transceiver shows 1 - 1.

I don’t see an adjustment for the K3 SWR minimum setting in a menu. And I do 
not see anything mentioned in the K3 Operating Manual or the KE7X Extended 
Manual.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Bob W1XT
Sun City West, AZ
K1, KX1 K2 1434, K2 5843, K3 and other units.

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Re: [Elecraft] Garbled K2 SSB Signals

Hi Don,

Electrical tape is slightly resistive, at least the ones I've used. At
Idealab (Pasadena, CA - tech incubator), we used electrical tape to
lightly ground sections of a proto RF PCBA we were developing. Doing
this snubbed out some parasitic oscillation that we never really
understood.  One of our grad student techs found this by accident.

Murphy acts in strange ways, sometimes.

73,
matt W6NIA

On Sun, 04 May 2014 09:35:32 -0400, you wrote:

Dale,

That is an old problem often referred to as WAOF (Weird At One Frequency).
That frequency region is where the PLL frequency and the VFO frequencies 
cross.  Those two signals can couple together producing the condition 
that you observe.  The fix is to reduce the opportunity for those 
signals to couple together.

Make certain that C88 on the bottom of the RF board soldered between 
pins 12 and 13 of U4 is on the correct pins and has the shortest 
possible leads.  Also the length of the leads for RFC15 and C91 should 
be as short as possible at the connection point with U4 pin 16.

If that does not take care of it, flush cut all pins and component leads 
in the vicinity of U4 and U6 including the R-paks to eliminate anything 
that could act as an antenna.  Also above the board make certain the 
varactors and capacitors in the VFO and PLL area are seated completely 
down on the board - long leads will cause the signals to couple together.

The last gentleman who had this problem reported that the above efforts 
did not stop it entirely, but when he covered the U4 area with 
electrical tape, the problem went away.  Now, I can't explain why the 
electrical tape would have that effect, but give it a try.

73,
Don W3FPR


On 5/4/2014 9:11 AM, d...@k4eq.net wrote:
 I completed my K2 earlier this week and everything seems to be working
 great. However, I have discovered one problem. Received SSB signals from
 7180 to 7185 kHz are garbled even with the NB and preamp off. Thus far I
 haven't observed this problem on any other frequency. Any ideas what may be
 causing this?


__
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Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
www.elecraft.com
831-763-4211  x129


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Kit Wisdom

2014-05-04 Thread Fred Smith

IMHO there is only one Perfect WayDon't buy a kit let Elecraft
build it, burn it in, do setup.

Then I open the box when I get it and in less than 5 min. I'm on the air. Oh
yes I've been studying the manuals both the build one and operating one
(downloaded printed in 3 ring binder with sheet protectors) like every piece
of gear I own.

I did build my K2 and KPA500 that is the reason I like Elecraft the option
to do so, some things I just want them to do they are very reasonable. The
big plus you have more time to operate instead of building.


73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser # 6730--KX3 # 5210--K2/100 # 6470-KAT100
P3/SVGA--KAT500--W2
Amps Elecraft KPA500 HF/6m--Alpha's 9500 HF--87A HF--Mirage B-5030-G
300+w--(2) B-5016-G's 165w 2m




-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerome
Sodus
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 8:55 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Kit Wisdom

To be on the safe side, wear only cotton clothing; no wool or synthetic
clothes.
Cotton will be least likely to pick-up any charges.
73 Jerry KM3K   KX3 #6088 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don
Wilhelm
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 8:28 PM
To: John, 9H5G; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Kit Wisdom

John,

As for the advice about screwdrivers, yes, get yourself a quality, new
#1 phillips.  I like the ones from Ace Hardware with the blue handles (Pro
Series), and I like the 8 inch length, just because I learned to use that
length many, many years ago - pick whatever length you are comfortable
with,but do buy a quality screwdriver from a reputable supplier - a bargain
bin screwdriver tip is usually not cut with adequate precision.  If you can
see shiny spots on the corners of the tip, it is not adequate for the task,
it will slip and strip your screwheads.  My method of judging a phillips tip
driver is if it does not hold a 3/16 inch phillips head screw when it is
held horizontally, it is time for that screwdriver to be replaced.

I take issue with the suggestion to use magnetic holders and the insert
bits.  I prefer not to have any magnetic tools at my electronics workbench,
they attract stray bits of cutoff component leads and other things stick to
the tools.  YMMV on that one - take your pick.  I use several magnetic
holders to great benefit in the woodworking shop, but never at the
electronics workbench.

As for anti-static, yes take measures - a wrist strap is a minimum, if you
have an anti-static mat at the workbench, work on that surface, especially
when handling unmounted boards.  Do NOT work on a completely conducting
surface such as a bare metal desktop or cookie sheet, or aluminum foil or
whatever - fully conductive surfaces can also create static damage when they
contact that fully conductive surface and are a safety hazard if there are
live power sources anywhere near.  Newspapers misted with a spray of water
in addition to the wrist strap can be more effective than a fully conducting
surface.  If you have no other alternative, cut open one of the black
anti-static bags that the boards are packed in, connect it to a 1 megohm
resistor with a clip lead, and ground the far end of the 1 megohm resistor
to the center screw on an AC receptacle cover plate (your wrist strap can
ground to the same place).

As has been said about the egg cartons, stay away from most plastic
containers for sorting because plastics and foam stuff attracts a static
charge.  If you need to sort the hardware into the various sizes, use metal
tins (Altoids tins?) or paper cups.  If you are adept at spotting a screw
size and length 'by eye', you can just dump all the hardware into a large
box and pick the right ones from there.  Those having long term experience
with woodworking measurements or metalworking will have that ability.
Make such judgements based on what you know about your abilities.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/3/2014 3:51 PM, John, 9H5G wrote:
 Gentlemen,

 Thank you for a fantastic list of hints and tips so far!

 As Gary, KI4GGX, pointed out I should have mentioned the options that 
 I
have coming. It's a K3/100 with a KRX3 and a handful of filters. Simple but
very effective, I'm sure.



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[Elecraft] K3 Kit Wisdom (or experience, anyway)

2014-05-04 Thread Dauer, Edward

One other tool I found essential - and I don¹t recall if anyone has
mentioned this yet - is a hand-held magnifying glass with built-in
illumination.

There are at least two kinds of occasions when this could be important.
One is those few places in which the soldered leads on a small board have
to be nibbled down to avoid contact with an overlying metallic part (the
instructions specify these points.)  The glass helps greatly in assuring
that the clearance actually exists.  The other are the more numerous
places in which the boards and other components are connected with
multi-pin connector blocks, at least some of which could be (I think)
connected with sideways displacement, or not fully inserted at all.  I
used the glass to inspect every one of them from every possible angle
before going on.  Once the whole assembly is complete it would be annoying
at best to identify an error like that.

In my experience (loaded K3, KPA500, KAT500, P3 and KX3) the only step I
found really difficult was inserting the K3¹s sub receiver.  Three hands
with fingers 2 mm wide and eight inches long would have helped.  I have
but two, shorter and stubbier than that.  What I found worked best was,
after unsuccessful attempt number five, quit for the night and have a
drink.

Ted, KN1CBR

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Re: [Elecraft] MDS practical measuring?

2014-05-04 Thread Alan Bloom

I have always disliked the term Minimum Discernable Signal (MDS), 
because it really is a misnomer.  Obviously different people can discern 
a signal at different levels, and what does it mean to discern a 
signal anyway?


The technical definition of MDS is simply the effective noise level in 
the receiver.  It is typically measured by injecting a low-level CW 
carrier.  When the signal plus noise is 3 dB (twice the power) compared 
to the noise alone, then the signal level equals the noise level, which 
is the MDS.


A receiver's MDS is a strong function of bandwidth.  If you increase the 
bandwidth by 10x, the MDS goes up (gets worse) by 10 dB.  The standard 
bandwidth for receiver testing is 500 Hz.


Since an SSB receiver is nothing more than a frequency translator from 
radio to audio frequencies, you can measure the signal to noise level at 
the audio output.  However, theoretically you need a true RMS voltmeter 
to do an accurate measurement.  A typical multimeter reads the average 
voltage of the rectified AC waveform, which is a little different from 
the RMS value.  The error is small, however.  You can correct for it by 
adjusting the signal generator for a 3.2 dB increase (1.445 voltage 
ratio) instead of 3.0 dB.


A bigger source of possible error is the automatic gain control in the 
receiver.  Disable it if possible to make sure it doesn't affect the 
measurement.


Recent editions of the ARRL Handbook (2012 or later) have a thorough 
explanation of how to measure MDS, in Section 25.5 Receiver Measurements.


Alan N1AL (author of Chapter 25)


On 05/04/2014 05:34 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:

It was time to drag out the test gear and give my older K3 a going over.

One thing of interest was Minimum Detectible Signal.

There is a WIKI definition for it but the equation doesn't help me a bit.

I just thought I'd attach a calibrated signal generator and keep
reducing the level (for a 500 Hz bandwidth) until I couldn't hear it.
That doesn't seems subjective since the signal generator is a constant
tone and not information to decode.

Then I tried looking at Spectrogram and defining a minimum S/N ratio
which would define MDS.  The MDS values derived this way were much lower
for a 6 dB S/N ratio.  In fact, I couldn't hear the signal at this S/N
ratio!  The integration time constant used for averaging clearly was
helping with detection.  So what time constant would be appropriate for
normal CW?

How indeed is MDS measured quantitively?

73 de Brian/K3KO


-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3722/6937 - Release Date: 05/03/14

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Re: [Elecraft] Garbled K2 SSB Signals

2014-05-04 Thread dale

Thanks again Don. I shortened one lead on C88 and made certain that
everything around U4 and U6 was as tightly flush cut as possible. Also, I
put electrical tape all over the U4 area. There's not much activity up here
on 40 meters now, but fortunately there was a weak station around 7182, the
offending area. Unfortunately, he was garbled. Back to the fortunate thing .
. . I don't work much SSB and rarely in the 7180-7185 area, so this won't
bother me a whole lot. Nevertheless, if you or anyone have other
suggestions, I'm open. Gracias.  --Dale, K4EQ

-Original Message-
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 9:17 AM
To: 'd...@w3fpr.com'
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Garbled K2 SSB Signals

Thank you so much Don, Those are excellent suggestions and I will get right
on it today. I feel some comfort in knowing it isn't just my radio. In other
words, misery loves company.  :-)  --Dale

-Original Message-
From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:w3...@embarqmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 8:36 AM
To: d...@k4eq.net; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Garbled K2 SSB Signals

Dale,

That is an old problem often referred to as WAOF (Weird At One Frequency).
That frequency region is where the PLL frequency and the VFO frequencies
cross.  Those two signals can couple together producing the condition that
you observe.  The fix is to reduce the opportunity for those signals to
couple together.

Make certain that C88 on the bottom of the RF board soldered between pins 12
and 13 of U4 is on the correct pins and has the shortest possible leads.
Also the length of the leads for RFC15 and C91 should be as short as
possible at the connection point with U4 pin 16.

If that does not take care of it, flush cut all pins and component leads in
the vicinity of U4 and U6 including the R-paks to eliminate anything that
could act as an antenna.  Also above the board make certain the varactors
and capacitors in the VFO and PLL area are seated completely down on the
board - long leads will cause the signals to couple together.

The last gentleman who had this problem reported that the above efforts did
not stop it entirely, but when he covered the U4 area with electrical tape,
the problem went away.  Now, I can't explain why the electrical tape would
have that effect, but give it a try.

73,
Don W3FPR


On 5/4/2014 9:11 AM, d...@k4eq.net wrote:
 I completed my K2 earlier this week and everything seems to be working 
 great. However, I have discovered one problem. Received SSB signals 
 from
 7180 to 7185 kHz are garbled even with the NB and preamp off. Thus far 
 I haven't observed this problem on any other frequency. Any ideas what 
 may be causing this?


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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Kool Aid

2014-05-04 Thread Jeff Cathrow

Elecraft Kool Aid contains a high percentage of Elcohol; hence that fellow's 
misspelling/poor grammar ( Crag's List,  have drank) that detracted from my 
otherwise humorous enjoyment of his post.

Jeff, NH7RO  (fellow Elcoholic since 2010)

 
 

  
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Re: [Elecraft] MDS practical measuring?

2014-05-04 Thread Lyle Johnson

Of course one of the nice features of the K3 and KX3 is that a true RMS 
audio voltmeter is built in to the radio.


Lyle KK7P
... However, theoretically you need a true RMS voltmeter to do an 
accurate measurement.  A typical multimeter reads the average voltage 
of the rectified AC waveform, which is a little different from the RMS 
value...

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Re: [Elecraft] 2013 World Wide DX Contest SSB results

2014-05-04 Thread Chester Alderman

Not Bad is a poor description of your accomplishment Keith. 'Damn GOOD' is
closer to it!! Really nice work Keith...

73,
Tom - W4BQF



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
XE3/K5ENS via Elecraft
Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:22 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] 2013 World Wide DX Contest SSB results

My personal best!
 
1st. place Mexico. 
5th. place North America.  
8th place World Wide.
 
SOAB low power
 
Not bad for a *Elecraft K3/100* with a Tri-bander and dipoles.
 
 
Keith, XE3/K5ENS



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Re: [Elecraft] Possible bad KREF or K144XV Ref Lock or ???

2014-05-04 Thread Harry Yingst via Elecraft

Thank you for the insight.

Last night I pulled the K3 back over to the workbench and probed the
lines coming to and from the ref lock board with a oscilloscope.
What I discovered is that the rear of the jack had pushed back out of the 
socket.
Once I corrected that everything worked fine.


On a side note: I have a nice Down east Microwave Transverter I built last 
fall. 
Since I wanted to reduce the clutter so I went with the internal transverter.





 From: Vic Goncharsky us...@yahoo.com
To: Harry_Yingst hlyin...@yahoo.com 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Possible bad KREF or K144XV Ref Lock or ???
 

Hi Harry,
Hope the info that follows will be useful.
I have made some research of how to make the internal K144XV Elecraft 
transverter be useful in contests. 
Originally it was almost useless due to many parasitics all across the band 
even from S9 signals.
The stronger – the worse and there were a lot of them even here in KN29AU. 
So in July, last year, during IARU R1 3-rd subregional VHF contest, the band 
was full of clones. HI HI.

Comparying the schematics of both internal and external Elecraft 144 
transverters shows three major differences that could have caused the different 
dynamic performance of the internal one.
Firstly - the usage of three diode switching components in the Front-End chain 
up to the ADEX mixer.
Secondly - usage of MMIC instead of BFR96 in the LO amplifier stage.
Thirdly - the K144XV PHASE LOCK BOARD

Here are some findings and possible solutions.
1.Remove (do NOT install) the K144XV PHASE LOCK BOARD!
In this case transverter is using just its own Xtal generator and spirious 
signals caused, possibly, by leakage from the synthesizer are gone. 
2. Bypass the input diode T/R input switch by using separate receiving path. 
Remove the shorting block from pin1-2 of the P3 connector and connect separate 
coax to pin2 – RF, pin3 – ground.
This requires adding some front-end filtering and RF relays in PA, LNA or 
wherever you like.
(I would have prefer to get rid of all diode switching in RX RF path but have 
no idea of RF relays small enough to fit into K144XV box).
I have tested this setup in September during IARU R1 VHF championship and 
compared to July's event it looked like day and night.

-- 
73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, EO90WF in 2014)
UARL Technical Committee
DXCC card checker (160 meters).


On Sat, 5/3/14, Harry_Yingst via Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net wrote:

Subject: [Elecraft] Possible bad KREF or K144XV Ref Lock or ???
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Date: Saturday, May 3, 2014, 8:57 PM

I have a recent K3 (2 months old)
that has the KX144XV Two meter module
and the KXV144 Ref Lock. Today I installed the KBPF3 and
some filters.

After installation I attempted to calibrate the TX Gain and
it kept failing
on 60 meters.

Through testing what I found is that if I connect the KSYN3
directly to the
KREF3 and
not through the K144XV Ref Lock it will calibrate and
appears to function
correctly.

I am let to believe that either the KREF board is not
putting out
enough signal or the KXV144 Ref Lock is loading the line to
much.

Has anyone else seen this issue?


Thank you





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[Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Hello all, I just passed my Tech license and I am looking for a mobile
station to mount on my motorcycle (BMW F700GS)

I spoke with my Uncle Chuck Wood, WD6APP in San Diego, and he praised the
KX3 as radio, said buy one for the house, but thought it was not suitable
for a motorcycle. 

His advice gives me pause as to if this is a suitable use for the radio, but
wanted to get the opinion of someone who has maybe mounted this unit on a
motorcycle and has personal experience.

I plan to mount it inside a Ram Mount Large Box, which is water resistant,
and then on to the handlebars, which are on anti-vibration mounts. It still
vibrates, but not as much as a straight connection.

I would have about 1/2 inch on all sides to put some anti vibration
standoffs, to isolate it some more.

Also, how forgiving is the unit of voltage? The CANBUS on the BMW does a
great job of regulating the voltage, but there is still going to be some
variation. Thinking of using an external battery, charge the battery off the
bike if needed, just to stabilize the power supply.

In case you were wondering what I would do with it... most of the road
captains are HAMs too, so we are using FRS at the moment, but want to move
to 6m/2m operations for co-ordinating rider leader/wingman/tailgunners
actions during riders. We have up to 4 groups of 15 per ride, covering 150
to 300+ miles per ride.
All day operation is a requirement, not a lot of chatter, maybe 15:1 rx/tx
ratio at max.





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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Kit Wisdom (or experience, anyway)

2014-05-04 Thread WILLIS COOKE via Elecraft

I would agree, but I prefer a bifocal magnifier head band with an external 
light.  I have two, one with an extra magnifying loop..  You definitely need 
some kind of magnifier unless you are very young with great eyesight or have a 
pet hawk or eagle to help.  Seeing eye dogs don't help much as they have great 
hearing which does not help unless you have power on and draw an arc.
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ  Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
On Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:10 AM, Dauer, Edward eda...@law.du.edu wrote:
 
One other tool I found essential - and I don¹t recall if anyone has
mentioned this yet - is a hand-held magnifying glass with built-in
illumination.

There are at least two kinds of occasions when this could be important.
One is those few places in which the soldered leads on a small board have
to be nibbled down to avoid contact with an overlying metallic part (the
instructions specify these points.)  The glass helps greatly in assuring
that the clearance actually exists.  The other are the more numerous
places in which the boards and other components are connected with
multi-pin connector blocks, at least some of which could be (I think)
connected with sideways displacement, or not fully inserted at all.  I
used the glass to inspect every one of them from every possible angle
before going on.  Once the whole assembly is complete it would be annoying
at best to identify an error like that.

In my experience (loaded K3, KPA500, KAT500, P3 and KX3) the only step I
found really difficult was inserting the K3¹s sub receiver.  Three hands
with fingers 2 mm wide and eight inches long would have helped.  I have
but two, shorter and stubbier than that.  What I found worked best was,
after unsuccessful attempt number five, quit for the night and have a
drink.

Ted, KN1CBR

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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Phil Kane

On 5/4/2014 9:20 AM, rgconner wrote:

 In case you were wondering what I would do with it... most of the road
 captains are HAMs too, so we are using FRS at the moment, but want to move
 to 6m/2m operations for co-ordinating rider leader/wingman/tailgunners
 actions during riders. 

My own opinion - use a VHF 6m/2m mobile made for such an environment.
If the distances involved are small, a  5 watt hand held on a
belt/chest mount will do.  A lot cheaper than the KX3 - and save the KX3
for home /portable use.  No need to bash a $1500+ radio on a bike!
My own opinion.
-- --
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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[Elecraft] K1 test problem

2014-05-04 Thread Leroy Bellefeuille

I am a first time K1 builder and am having a very difficult  time getting the 
proper voltage measurements for the test on page 46 of the manual.  
Test point J7 pin 8 should be 3.8vdc  I get 0
The test points on Diodes D9,D10,D11,D13, all measure 0
Any suggestions as to how to go about troubleshooting these problems?  I have 
had no problems up to this point, but this has me stumped.  

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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

 ...I just passed my Tech license and I am looking for a mobile
 station to mount on my motorcycle (BMW F700GS)

 I spoke with my Uncle Chuck Wood, WD6APP in San Diego, and he praised the
 KX3 as radio, said buy one for the house, but thought it was not suitable
 for a motorcycle. 

 ...most of the road captains are HAMs too, so we are using FRS at the 
 moment, but want to move to 6m/2m operations for co-ordinating...

Your uncle is one thousand percent on the money.

The KX3 is primarily an MF/HF rig, and a sophisticated high performance one
at that.  It is gross overkill for an application that is most appropriate
using VHF/UHF handie-talkies.  Buy a bushel-basket full of cheap Chinese
Baofeng UV-5R HTs or something similar instead.  Although they are very far
from being perfect ham HTs, they will perfectly serve your application much
much *better* than a KX3 or other M/HF rig, and be disposable as well. :-)
See: http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/10349 and
 http://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-UV-5R-136-174-400-480-Dual-Band/dp/B007H4VT7A

OTOH, if you wish to operate portable HF in various modes on your trips,
perhaps after the day's riding is done, the KX3 is an excellent choice to
carry in addition to the VHF/UHF HT.

Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Harry Yingst via Elecraft

I would full agree

I briefly considered a putting a KX3 in my Jeep, but then figured it would 
probably
be distracting and not get used that much (because of being distracting)

I used to ride years ago and would not want the added distraction on a 
motorcycle.






 From: Phil Kane k2...@kanafi.org
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?
 

On 5/4/2014 9:20 AM, rgconner wrote:

 In case you were wondering what I would do with it... most of the road
 captains are HAMs too, so we are using FRS at the moment, but want to move
 to 6m/2m operations for co-ordinating rider leader/wingman/tailgunners
 actions during riders. 

My own opinion - use a VHF 6m/2m mobile made for such an environment.
If the distances involved are small, a  5 watt hand held on a
belt/chest mount will do.  A lot cheaper than the KX3 - and save the KX3
for home /portable use.  No need to bash a $1500+ radio on a bike!
My own opinion.
-- --
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

You might get a few ideas by looking here:
http://www.elecraft.com/manual/Rev-B1-1.6-KX3-Mobile-Owners.pdf

There are ideas for mounts, power options, antennas, etc.  The guide
is really for four-wheel vehicles, but some of the concepts may apply
to your BMW two-wheel installation.

On the KX3's manual page
(http://www.elecraft.com/K2_Manual_Download_Page.htm#KX3), you'll also
find a reference to http://www.k0bg.com/ .  I believe the web site
also contains a number of articles on mobile installation and
operation, but might be less specific to the KX3.

73,
matt W6NIA

On Sun, 4 May 2014 09:20:45 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

Hello all, I just passed my Tech license and I am looking for a mobile
station to mount on my motorcycle (BMW F700GS)

I spoke with my Uncle Chuck Wood, WD6APP in San Diego, and he praised the
KX3 as radio, said buy one for the house, but thought it was not suitable
for a motorcycle. 

His advice gives me pause as to if this is a suitable use for the radio, but
wanted to get the opinion of someone who has maybe mounted this unit on a
motorcycle and has personal experience.

I plan to mount it inside a Ram Mount Large Box, which is water resistant,
and then on to the handlebars, which are on anti-vibration mounts. It still
vibrates, but not as much as a straight connection.

I would have about 1/2 inch on all sides to put some anti vibration
standoffs, to isolate it some more.

Also, how forgiving is the unit of voltage? The CANBUS on the BMW does a
great job of regulating the voltage, but there is still going to be some
variation. Thinking of using an external battery, charge the battery off the
bike if needed, just to stabilize the power supply.

In case you were wondering what I would do with it... most of the road
captains are HAMs too, so we are using FRS at the moment, but want to move
to 6m/2m operations for co-ordinating rider leader/wingman/tailgunners
actions during riders. We have up to 4 groups of 15 per ride, covering 150
to 300+ miles per ride.
All day operation is a requirement, not a lot of chatter, maybe 15:1 rx/tx
ratio at max.
Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
--
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will
spend the first four sharpening the axe. -A. Lincoln
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Re: [Elecraft] K1 test problem


You have no voltage coming into the T/R switch from the 6T voltage rail.
Do you have the 6T voltage anywhere?  Do a TUNE and check the voltage at 
P1 pin 7 - it should be near 6 volts.  If OK there, you can go on, but 
if nothing there, you will have to backtrack to the Front Panel Board - 
the voltage comes from the MCU FP U1 pin 7 - check to see if there is 
voltage there.


If you did have 6 volts at P1 pin 7, all is good on the Front Panel, so 
go on to the RF Board.  Check the ends of R38.  If you have voltage at 
one end, but not the other, check the R38 soldering.
R38 OK, then go on to check RFC3 - same thing, check for voltage at both 
ends - check soldering if you have voltage at only one end.  If 
soldering is OK, check the resistance of RFC3 - it should be quite low.


If RFC3 is fine and has voltage at both ends, check the orientation and 
soldering of the diodes, particularly D9.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/4/2014 1:01 PM, Leroy Bellefeuille wrote:

I am a first time K1 builder and am having a very difficult  time getting the 
proper voltage measurements for the test on page 46 of the manual.
Test point J7 pin 8 should be 3.8vdc  I get 0
The test points on Diodes D9,D10,D11,D13, all measure 0
Any suggestions as to how to go about troubleshooting these problems?  I have 
had no problems up to this point, but this has me stumped.  
  



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Kit Wisdom (or experience, anyway)

2014-05-04 Thread Harry Yingst via Elecraft

I picked up a Magnifying Headband years ago when I built my K2.

It has been extremely handy over the years, and practically a necessity when 
building kits.



Items I would say that are good to have in general are:

Patience (don't rush, enjoy the build)
A good set of screwdrivers (Craftsmen).

A quality set of Nippy cutters.

A Magnifying visor (I also have a lighted hand held magnifying glass for 
inspecting surface mount).
Good Lighting.
A good static mat.
A pencil to check of the steps.
Plastic divided boxes to organize the hardware.


I also bring up the PDF file of the manual on my computer to zoom in on the 
photos.



 



 From: WILLIS COOKE via Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net
To: Dauer, Edward eda...@law.du.edu; elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Kit Wisdom (or experience, anyway)
 

I would agree, but I prefer a bifocal magnifier head band with an external 
light.  I have two, one with an extra magnifying loop..  You definitely need 
some kind of magnifier unless you are very young with great eyesight or have a 
pet hawk or eagle to help.  Seeing eye dogs don't help much as they have great 
hearing which does not help unless you have power on and draw an arc.
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ  Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
On Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:10 AM, Dauer, Edward eda...@law.du.edu wrote:

One other tool I found essential - and I don¹t recall if anyone has
mentioned this yet - is a hand-held magnifying glass with built-in
illumination.

There are at least two kinds of occasions when this could be important.
One is those few places in which the soldered leads on a small board have
to be nibbled down to avoid contact with an overlying metallic part (the
instructions specify these points.)  The glass helps greatly in assuring
that the clearance actually exists.  The other are the more numerous
places in which the boards and other components are connected with
multi-pin connector blocks, at least some of which could be (I think)
connected with sideways displacement, or not fully inserted at all.  I
used the glass to inspect every one of them from every possible angle
before going on.  Once the whole assembly is complete it would be annoying
at best to identify an error like that.

In my experience (loaded K3, KPA500, KAT500, P3 and KX3) the only step I
found really difficult was inserting the K3¹s sub receiver.  Three hands
with fingers 2 mm wide and eight inches long would have helped.  I have
but two, shorter and stubbier than that.  What I found worked best was,
after unsuccessful attempt number five, quit for the night and have a
drink.

Ted, KN1CBR

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Re: [Elecraft] K1 test problem

 I am a first time K1 builder and am having a very difficult
 time getting the proper voltage measurements for the test on
 page 46 of the manual.  
 Test point J7 pin 8 should be 3.8vdc  I get 0
 The test points on Diodes D9,D10,D11,D13, all measure 0

Are you sure you performed this step correctly, just before taking the
voltage readings:

Place the transmitter in TUNE mode (key-down), by holding
the W P M + and W P M - switches simultaneously.

Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] Garbled K2 SSB Signals

2014-05-04 Thread Fred Jensen


Be aware that most black electrical tape is very slightly conductive.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

On 5/4/2014 6:35 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:


The last gentleman who had this problem reported that the above efforts
did not stop it entirely, but when he covered the U4 area with
electrical tape, the problem went away.  Now, I can't explain why the
electrical tape would have that effect, but give it a try.



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Re: [Elecraft] K1 test problem

2014-05-04 Thread WILLIS COOKE via Elecraft

I have no direct experience with the K1, but the first think I would look for 
is the diodes installed backward.  The band will be on the output (negative) 
end of the diode.  The next thing to look for is that all the diodes are open.  
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ  Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
On Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:02 PM, Leroy Bellefeuille leeb...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
I am a first time K1 builder and am having a very difficult  time getting the 
proper voltage measurements for the test on page 46 of the manual.  
Test point J7 pin 8 should be 3.8vdc  I get 0
The test points on Diodes D9,D10,D11,D13, all measure 0
Any suggestions as to how to go about troubleshooting these problems?  I have 
had no problems up to this point, but this has me stumped.                      
     
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Kit Wisdom

2014-05-04 Thread Gary K9GS

Elecraft needs to develop a kit-building jumpsuit.  They could use 
static dissipative cloth like we have for our smocks at work.


Maybe have Eric and Wayne's faces silk-screened on the back.

An added option would be a Batman-like utility belt that has a wrist 
strap and the correct screwdrivers.



On 5/4/2014 8:55 AM, Jerome Sodus wrote:

To be on the safe side, wear only cotton clothing; no wool or synthetic
clothes.
Cotton will be least likely to pick-up any charges.
73 Jerry KM3K   KX3 #6088

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don
Wilhelm
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 8:28 PM
To: John, 9H5G; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Kit Wisdom

John,

As for the advice about screwdrivers, yes, get yourself a quality, new
#1 phillips.  I like the ones from Ace Hardware with the blue handles
(Pro Series), and I like the 8 inch length, just because I learned to
use that length many, many years ago - pick whatever length you are
comfortable with,but do buy a quality screwdriver from a reputable
supplier - a bargain bin screwdriver tip is usually not cut with
adequate precision.  If you can see shiny spots on the corners of the
tip, it is not adequate for the task, it will slip and strip your
screwheads.  My method of judging a phillips tip driver is if it does
not hold a 3/16 inch phillips head screw when it is held horizontally,
it is time for that screwdriver to be replaced.

I take issue with the suggestion to use magnetic holders and the insert
bits.  I prefer not to have any magnetic tools at my electronics
workbench, they attract stray bits of cutoff component leads and other
things stick to the tools.  YMMV on that one - take your pick.  I use
several magnetic holders to great benefit in the woodworking shop, but
never at the electronics workbench.

As for anti-static, yes take measures - a wrist strap is a minimum, if
you have an anti-static mat at the workbench, work on that surface,
especially when handling unmounted boards.  Do NOT work on a completely
conducting surface such as a bare metal desktop or cookie sheet, or
aluminum foil or whatever - fully conductive surfaces can also create
static damage when they contact that fully conductive surface and are a
safety hazard if there are live power sources anywhere near.  Newspapers
misted with a spray of water in addition to the wrist strap can be more
effective than a fully conducting surface.  If you have no other
alternative, cut open one of the black anti-static bags that the boards
are packed in, connect it to a 1 megohm resistor with a clip lead, and
ground the far end of the 1 megohm resistor to the center screw on an AC
receptacle cover plate (your wrist strap can ground to the same place).

As has been said about the egg cartons, stay away from most plastic
containers for sorting because plastics and foam stuff attracts a static
charge.  If you need to sort the hardware into the various sizes, use
metal tins (Altoids tins?) or paper cups.  If you are adept at spotting
a screw size and length 'by eye', you can just dump all the hardware
into a large box and pick the right ones from there.  Those having long
term experience with woodworking measurements or metalworking will have
that ability.
Make such judgements based on what you know about your abilities.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/3/2014 3:51 PM, John, 9H5G wrote:

Gentlemen,

Thank you for a fantastic list of hints and tips so far!

As Gary, KI4GGX, pointed out I should have mentioned the options that I

have coming. It's a K3/100 with a KRX3 and a handful of filters. Simple but
very effective, I'm sure.



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--


73,

Gary K9GS

Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org



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Re: [Elecraft] 2013 World Wide DX Contest SSB results

2014-05-04 Thread Wayne Burdick

Congratulations!

Wayne
N6KR

On May 4, 2014, at 7:22 AM, XE3/K5ENS via Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
wrote:

 My personal best!
 
 1st. place Mexico. 
 5th. place North America.  
 8th place World Wide.
 
 SOAB low power
 
 Not bad for a *Elecraft K3/100* with a Tri-bander and dipoles.
 
 
 Keith, XE3/K5ENS
 
 
 
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[Elecraft] RESOVLED Re: Question about Elecraft K3 Utility for Linux Revision 1.14.4.11

2014-05-04 Thread Larry Lopez

Getting a brand new 25-1402 cable
from radio shack made everything work.

It's now showing the installed firmware versions.
The save configuration button is no longer shaded out.
Perhaps my hacked together cable wasn't working right
somehow.

2 RXD_OUT
3 TXD_IN
4 DTR_IN
5 COMMON
7 RTS_IN



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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread David Patino


I would shy away from putting a KX3 on a motorcycle for several reasons:

Heat from direct sunlight
Heat from higher ambient temperature on the road
Possible exposure to water / moisture
Vibration (Even on a 6 cylinder Goldwing this can be an issue)
Attempting to operate the relatively small buttons with gloves on
Attention required to operate the (KX3 or any HF rig) would be better spent not 
getting squished by cagers
 
I would apply the same to almost any HF rig, though if one had a remote 
faceplate allowing you to secure the main unit in a trunk to protect from 
elements / vibration / direct sunlight, it could be possible, though probably 
still not recommended.
 
However I have used 2m/440 on my bikes quite successfully. These typically 
require much less attention to operate, no ATU, no minute tuning to get a 
signal. I usually just us my Kenwood F6a HT on a RAM mount interfaced with a 
helmet headset from RiderComm.
My father uses his Kenwood 710 with a Kennedy system to interface it to the 
stock comms system on his Goldwing.
 
I also have a Yaesu FTM-10R (discontinued now), which was designed for 
'motorsports'. I just haven't actually put it on a bike yet. It's remote head 
wire is what I consider 'backwards'. You disconnect it from the main unit and 
have a 10'+ wire still attached to the head. Makes it a bit impractical since 
you can't easily remove the head unit from your bike. I assume they did this as 
the head unit is waterproof, and having a connector up there would defeat that.
 
As many have mentioned, if this is just shorter range communications, I'd go 
for one of the baofeng radios and a helmet headset (with remote PTT). Depending 
on the bike you could consider a nicer unit like the kenwood 710 which would 
also give you APRS capability.
 
-Dave
N9PBJ
2003 Vulcan Voyager
 
-Original Message-
From: Matt Zilmer mzil...@roadrunner.com
Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:24pm
To: rgconner rgcon...@gmail.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?



You might get a few ideas by looking here:
http://www.elecraft.com/manual/Rev-B1-1.6-KX3-Mobile-Owners.pdf

There are ideas for mounts, power options, antennas, etc.  The guide
is really for four-wheel vehicles, but some of the concepts may apply
to your BMW two-wheel installation.

On the KX3's manual page
(http://www.elecraft.com/K2_Manual_Download_Page.htm#KX3), you'll also
find a reference to http://www.k0bg.com/ .  I believe the web site
also contains a number of articles on mobile installation and
operation, but might be less specific to the KX3.

73,
matt W6NIA

On Sun, 4 May 2014 09:20:45 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

Hello all, I just passed my Tech license and I am looking for a mobile
station to mount on my motorcycle (BMW F700GS)

I spoke with my Uncle Chuck Wood, WD6APP in San Diego, and he praised the
KX3 as radio, said buy one for the house, but thought it was not suitable
for a motorcycle. 

His advice gives me pause as to if this is a suitable use for the radio, but
wanted to get the opinion of someone who has maybe mounted this unit on a
motorcycle and has personal experience.

I plan to mount it inside a Ram Mount Large Box, which is water resistant,
and then on to the handlebars, which are on anti-vibration mounts. It still
vibrates, but not as much as a straight connection.

I would have about 1/2 inch on all sides to put some anti vibration
standoffs, to isolate it some more.

Also, how forgiving is the unit of voltage? The CANBUS on the BMW does a
great job of regulating the voltage, but there is still going to be some
variation. Thinking of using an external battery, charge the battery off the
bike if needed, just to stabilize the power supply.

In case you were wondering what I would do with it... most of the road
captains are HAMs too, so we are using FRS at the moment, but want to move
to 6m/2m operations for co-ordinating rider leader/wingman/tailgunners
actions during riders. We have up to 4 groups of 15 per ride, covering 150
to 300+ miles per ride.
All day operation is a requirement, not a lot of chatter, maybe 15:1 rx/tx
ratio at max.
Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
--
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will
spend the first four sharpening the axe. -A. Lincoln
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

I don't know why it would be any more distracting than any other radio. The
buttons appear bigger and easier to hit than the Beofeng you recommend.
Which I have, and find I got what I paid for. Not being able to adjust mic
gain means most helmet headsets and throat mic's are useless.

I am not using it rag chew. I am using it communicate with the 2 to 6 other
ride leaders to coordinate and keep the ride together. The general rule is
that we do not discuss anything not related to the immediate ride. This is
to keep the riders safe by ensuring we don't miss turns and alert to
dangers, like road hazards, auto's trying to overtake improperly, and god
forbid: someone going down or having a mechanical failure.
Anyway, I asked for radio advice, I have the riding covered, thanks.

General usage would be on a single channel all day long, unless we got
separated, then we would have designated open repeaters to tune to during
the ride.

Programming these right next to each other means using the up/down rocker on
the handset to change memory slots, or pulling over and retuning.

Chuck sent me an email, after remembering that the Kenwood you mentioned is
the same approx size, shape and orientation as the KX3.
And a bit cheaper, although again, you get what you pay for.

I will just have to budget money for the K3 or the KX3 for X-mas or
something.

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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

5w is not enough if we get out of line of site. 

On a recent ride we could not open the designated repeater ~30miles away,
K6IS, with 5w units, an FT-60 and/or the Beofengs. We all run either a
Diamond or Comet antenna, so it was not just ducktails or screw on antenna.

The FT-10 did so easily, at I think 10w. Min power could not open it.

All right in the same spot, all moving around trying to get an open, but
only the FT could, and could from everywhere.

5w on 70cm works great 95% of the time, until we get canyons or lose line of
site.




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[Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?

Dear Elecraft,

Right now there is no currently produced solution for a harsh condition,
i.e. vibration, dust, moisture rated that is more versatile/powerful than a
hand held 2m/70cm 5w unit suitable for mounting on say, handlebars of a
motorcycle or atv.
Please take into consideration cooling issues and variable power supply as
well. 

I would gladly pay the current price + 10% to 20% premium for a hardened
unit. More would depend on the feature set.

Thanks, and maybe I could torture test a unit for you...



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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Thanks for your reply, Matt.

I have looked at all those resources, they are very good. 

My plan for an off-the-shelf solution would be:

http://www.rammount.com/Products/AQUABOX/LargeAQUABOX/tabid/4887/Default.aspx

and then mount on the handlebar in the center. The space around the box that
is not take up by the radio could be filled with some small standoffs to
reduce vibration but not kill circulation. 

Should the weather turn, closing up the box and turning off the unit to
prevent overheating would be the likely course of action.



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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Rich

It sounds like the problems encountered by the Western States 100
between Tahoe and Auburn, or the century bike runs in the coast range of
California. Those problems were solved, IIRC, by mobile repeaters and
even a repeater in the sky (on a light plane) orbiting above the
course. Others can likely relate useful information if that interests you.

Richard Hill
NU6T

On 5/4/2014 1:16 PM, rgconner wrote:

5w is not enough if we get out of line of site.

On a recent ride we could not open the designated repeater ~30miles away,
K6IS, with 5w units, an FT-60 and/or the Beofengs. We all run either a
Diamond or Comet antenna, so it was not just ducktails or screw on antenna.

The FT-10 did so easily, at I think 10w. Min power could not open it.

All right in the same spot, all moving around trying to get an open, but
only the FT could, and could from everywhere.

5w on 70cm works great 95% of the time, until we get canyons or lose line of
site.

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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

That is precisely where we ride when we go east. Or the coastal range around
Napa/marin counties when we go west.

A repeater drone would be awesome... but unlikely.






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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Rich

OK, but you still may want to map the holes in your HT 5W net, and 
consider whether a few mobile repeaters or relays might be able to fill 
the holes for safety purposes.  Clubs local to you may have already 
addressed your problems and may know how to solve them.  They might even 
help out.


Richard Hill
NU6T

On 5/4/2014 1:55 PM, rgconner wrote:

That is precisely where we ride when we go east. Or the coastal range around
Napa/marin counties when we go west.

A repeater drone would be awesome... but unlikely.



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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

IF it gets really bad, we will have resort to cell phones...

*shudder*




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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread mcduffie


Many have given their opinion on this, some with actual experience.  Listen to
them.  I'm not currently doing what you are wanting to do, but did for many
years.

Don't go with a handheld.  They don't have enough power.  Opt for a full power
single or dual band VHF/UHF FM radio.  Even then, you'll have times when the
terrain will separate you enough that it won't work.  I used to run a 30W 2m
mobile with good antenna, and would frequently lose the tail end of the group in
rolling hills.  Having a repeater is fine, if there are any around, but this is
going to depend on where in the country you are riding.  The same goes for
paying attention to what's going on around you.  In a group, you already know
you have to pay attention that someone doesn't do something stupid, but when
spread out it isn't much of a problem and all you have to do is worry about the
4-wheelers around you.  I'm saying this for the non-rider's benefit.  You
already know.

If I was still riding, I'd have an IC706 or IC7000 mounted, along with the
dedicated dual bander.  In our area of the country, it is easy to pay attention
to what is going on around you and still play radio conservatively.  

As for rain, we didn't do much riding in the rain.  Sprinkles weren't a problem,
as the windshield took care of that unless stopped.  Covering it with the rain
cover used at night took care of it then.  Downpours usually meant we didn't
ride anyway, but the rain cover could still be used.

We pulled a trailer behind our XS1100 and our Aspencade.  Never once considered
not running mobile, but we didn't have small HF rigs available at that time for
a reasonable amount of $$.  :o)

I'd go with a good VHF installation and keep cell phones as a backup for out of
range conditions.

Gary - AG0N
Founder ARMC Net
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Sound advice. The Kenwood remote is likely the best option right now...
although if Elecraft wanted to use me as a guinea pig for creating a
hardened rig... I would pay for the privilege.

Right now we are using Jennipeaters, because on a ride, one of the Hams,
Jennifer, was not leading or tailing, but in the middle of the pack.

She was relaying info back and forth. Leader would call Left turn at Scott
Road. and there would be no Left turn at Scott Road, copy from the tail
gunner.

She would relay if tail did not respond in 5 seconds, and relay the answer
back up to the lead. Reverse when the tail called Left turn at Scott Road,
clear (meaning tail/sweep made the left turn as the last rider)

man in the middle relays are now known as jennipeaters




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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

In order to state that this is the wrong radio for this application, one 
must first determine what this application actually is.


If his goal is to work the world directly, without remote stations or 
IRLP, then a KX3 is probably a better option than a VHF/UHF handheld.


If the goal is talk around town, then a good HT is a good choice.

73 -- Lynn

On 5/4/2014 10:05 AM, Mike Morrow wrote:

The KX3 is primarily an MF/HF rig, and a sophisticated high performance one
at that.  It is gross overkill for an application that is most appropriate
using VHF/UHF handie-talkies.


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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

I have already established multiple times that an HT is not cutting it. I
have a Baofeng and a Yaesu Ft-60. Neither is doing what I need it to do.

So what you recommend?




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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle? [KX3-ish discussion]


 I am not using it rag chew. I am using it communicate with the 2 to 6 other
 ride leaders to coordinate and keep the ride together.

 General usage would be on a single channel all day long, unless we got
 separated, then we would have designated open repeaters to tune to during
 the ride.

Explain again, to slow people like me not as wise, why a multi-mode MF/HF
radio would better serve for mobile VHF-FM use...a radio that has only
a few watts output on 6 meters and, as yet, has no 2 meter capability (and
will be **very** power-limited when it becomes available)?  If you use simplex,
and you get parties separated with obstructions between them, a few watts on
VHF may not do the job you need.

 Chuck sent me an email, after remembering that the Kenwood you mentioned is
 the same approx size, shape and orientation as the KX3. 
 And a bit cheaper, although again, you get what you pay for.

I don't know WHO recommended WHAT Kenwood, but nothing that you just wrote is
true about the very best candidates for your application...radios such as the
Alinco DR-135T, Icom IC-2300H, Kenwood TM-281A, or Yaesu FT-1900R.  Thay are
all very small 2 meter mobile radios providing at least 50 watts output with
a street cost of around $150 or less.  You could buy ten of them for every one
well-fitted KX3!  They also provide weather channel and some public service
channel reception, are far more rugged than the KX3, and are much more likely
to survive abuse encountered in mobile installations such as you describe.
They are also extremely simple to use.

You do NOT need multi-band VHF capability for your application.  Trying
to use six meters complicates things like antenna installation.  Two-band
use would be best limited to 2m and 70cm, since the antenna size will not be
grossly affected.  One inexpensive small VHF-FM mobile unit with one simple
mono-band antenna will serve better than a KX3-in-a-box-on-handlebars.

What you have been describing as your rationale for choosing a KX3 is *very* 
bizarre to anyone technically knowledgeable of mobile communications 
applications.
Is there's a back story that isn't being made apparent?  Perhaps you actually
wish to justify purchase of the KX3 for better use later with an upgraded 
license.
In that case...get a KX3.  It's a great choice for sophisticated communications
needs, but it's a terrible choice for what you describe.  Get the KX3 for ham 
use,
but buy a cheap but decent 2 meter FM rig for two-wheeler mobile use.

Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?

2014-05-04 Thread Matt VK2RQ

If you are looking for a 2m/70cm mobile rig with more than 5W output (eg. 50W?)
to stay in touch with your buddies in the convoy, then the KX3 is simply the
wrong solution. Even CB may be a better fit, except for the power/range
requirement. After your ride, if you want to set up camp, throw up an antenna
and work some HF, then the KX3 is great for that. It's about using the right
tool for the right job.

73, Matt VK2RQ

On 5 May 2014, at 4:28 am, rgconner rgcon...@gmail.com wrote:

Dear Elecraft,

Right now there is no currently produced solution for a harsh condition,
i.e. vibration, dust, moisture rated that is more versatile/powerful than a
hand held 2m/70cm 5w unit suitable for mounting on say, handlebars of a
motorcycle or atv.
Please take into consideration cooling issues and variable power supply as
well.

I would gladly pay the current price + 10% to 20% premium for a hardened
unit. More would depend on the feature set.

Thanks, and maybe I could torture test a unit for you...

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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread K8JHR



Now I don't mean to sound critical, but is it somehow different for guys 
on bikes than for guys in cars?  We use 5 watt FRS/GMRS radios for our 
MINI Cooper driving club, and we can easily have thirty or forty cars on 
a tour, and have participated in groups as large as 400.  If cars get 
out of range, then we are either too spread out to be a group, or 
perhaps the group is too large if the front and rear cars cannot 
connect, or we cannot relay info.


I suppose that is where knowing the route in advance plays a helpful 
part.  We don't kibitz at every turn;  we pretty much know where we are 
going in advance ... well... all except for Wrong Way Joan who gets 
lost no matter what we do.


Is it so different for bikes you need such a wide signal range?  We do 
multi state, multi day tours, so it it is not like we don't go anywhere, 
so I am wondering why you need more range than what a 5 watt rig might 
provide.


Again...not being critical, genuinely curious about this.  Might learn 
something to take back to our club!


--  K8JHR 



On 5/4/2014 4:16 PM, rgconner wrote:
 5w is not enough if we get out of line of site.


 5w on 70cm works great 95% of the time, until we get canyons or lose 
line of

 site.


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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Phil Genera

Its much easier to get a useful ground plane in a car, in my experience.

That said, i ran a 5w HT for 4,000 miles summer for APRS and found it
worked mostly fine. Going to do it again on my bike next month.

-- 
Phil
kj6pon


On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 5:51 PM, K8JHR jricha...@k8jhr.com wrote:


 Now I don't mean to sound critical, but is it somehow different for guys
 on bikes than for guys in cars?  We use 5 watt FRS/GMRS radios for our MINI
 Cooper driving club, and we can easily have thirty or forty cars on a tour,
 and have participated in groups as large as 400.  If cars get out of range,
 then we are either too spread out to be a group, or perhaps the group is
 too large if the front and rear cars cannot connect, or we cannot relay
 info.

 I suppose that is where knowing the route in advance plays a helpful part.
  We don't kibitz at every turn;  we pretty much know where we are going in
 advance ... well... all except for Wrong Way Joan who gets lost no matter
 what we do.

 Is it so different for bikes you need such a wide signal range?  We do
 multi state, multi day tours, so it it is not like we don't go anywhere, so
 I am wondering why you need more range than what a 5 watt rig might provide.

 Again...not being critical, genuinely curious about this.  Might learn
 something to take back to our club!

 --  K8JHR 




 On 5/4/2014 4:16 PM, rgconner wrote:
  5w is not enough if we get out of line of site.
 

  5w on 70cm works great 95% of the time, until we get canyons or lose
 line of
  site.
 
 

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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Well, I would say that GPS, maps, turn sheets  etc are much easier to use in
a car. This makes everyone knowing the route much more difficult.

Also, a mechanical failure or fender bender can be far more serious on a
motorcycle than in a car. A flat is very dangerous to a rider, but for a
car? Meh. Wait for AAA.
Us? Pray you can stop before the tire totally fails.

So we are a little more concerned about people getting out of contact.

Also, I don't know the terrain where you are, or if comms span the entire
group from front to back or just car to car.

Scalas and the like do the job for small groups of friends wanting to jabber
on the ride while one or two bikes away, but we are looking for reliable
Command and Control ability.



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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Your passenger, which 95% of do not have, cannot effectively navigate for
you, either.




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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Good luck with it!  Despite others' comments about the KX3's
ruggedness, it's pretty robust.  I've had mine off road a dozen times,
mostly in a jeep mounted to the dash 1 RAM ball.  Seems like all
jeeps have those.  Had it out twice on a mountain bike, but there are
too many situations where vehicle control (lack of it) is a big issue.
I don't do that any more.

Be careful about cooling your KX3 with all five sides enclosed like
it's shown at the NP web site.  The KX3 likes a lot of exposure to
ambient air to stay in its happy temp range.  The KX3 will protect
itself from over-temperature, but you might not like the results all
that much.

You might want to call NP's sales/marketing guys in Seattle.  I used
to work with them all the time on GPS mounts and related accessories.
They may have some ideas for you to try.  They're really innovative
folks there.

73,
matt W6NIA


On Sun, 4 May 2014 13:37:24 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

Thanks for your reply, Matt.

I have looked at all those resources, they are very good. 

My plan for an off-the-shelf solution would be:

http://www.rammount.com/Products/AQUABOX/LargeAQUABOX/tabid/4887/Default.aspx

and then mount on the handlebar in the center. The space around the box that
is not take up by the radio could be filled with some small standoffs to
reduce vibration but not kill circulation. 

Should the weather turn, closing up the box and turning off the unit to
prevent overheating would be the likely course of action.
Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
--
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will
spend the first four sharpening the axe. -A. Lincoln
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

This thread is a good example of using reply and it goes to one 
person, and not to the whole list.


Please reply to the whole list, or reply all and (optionally) remove 
the individuals.


Also, quote the relevant part of the message (only).  Thanks!

I said in an earlier post that you had to know what this application 
was before you determine what is (or isn't) the right radio.


In a post I did not see through the list, we learned that this 
application is for a group of motorcyclists to talk among themselves, 
all on the same channel.


They're out of simplex VHF range, at least for handhelds.

Going to HF means everyone has to go to HF, so it's not a $2000 problem 
(KX3 plus antennas and hardware) but $2000/each.


The first thing I'd probably do is get some really good VHF antennas for 
everyone in the group.  Something at least 6db better than a rubber duckie.


Once I saw a really well designed 2 meter J-pole that mounted on top of 
a Hustler mast.  The owner had no problems getting into repeaters where 
some of us could not because he had just a little bit of height.  It 
wasn't ideal in parking garages, he had to stop and fold the mast.


If antenna alone doesn't work, then 2 meter mobile radios with some 
power could solve the problem.


73 -- Lynn
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Re: [Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?


 Please take into consideration cooling issues and variable power supply as
 well. 
 
 I would gladly pay the current price + 10% to 20% premium for a hardened
 unit. More would depend on the feature set.

Have you any experience with such industrial design?  That generous 20 percent
premium that you offer is laughable.  Try 200 percent...it's much more realistic
for what you ask.

Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?

You must not use CB, or maybe it is just where I live, but if you try and use
any channel on the CB the yahoos drown you out.

REmeber, any yahoo can use CB, but a HAM operator has to pass a test. That
appears to weed out the yahoos.

I am amazed by all the things this radio does, and does well, but it is
apparently a delicate wallflower in everyones opinion.

Maybe it is, I am reluctant to shell out $1000 to prove it right or wrong. 



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[Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Bruce Beford

From what I have read thus far, VHF is still the best bet for this
application. I have not yet heard how far these riders are spread out. If a
5W HT doesn't cut it, then perhaps adding a 30-50W amp would be more
appropriate than going HF. Also, look at the antennas in use on the bikes,
and their placement and adjustment. That means everyone on the ride needs to
understand how to properly install and operate the equipment, and it's
limitations. The bike with the lowest gain antenna/lowest power  would seem
to dictate the effectiveness of what it sounds like you are trying to do.

I still don't think outfitting 'x' number of bikes with HF is the answer.
But, I've been wrong before. It's an interesting problem.

good luck,
Bruce
N1RX


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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Well, there is no reply all, just reply, and I am replying to the mailing
list, so I don't know what else I can do.

And yes, it is going to require an investment for everyone to go to 6m.
But... the serious HAMs that have helped provide this solution already run
6m, and the cost is rather incremental if you are riding a $30K Goldwing,
K1600 or HD bike.
Even on my F700GS, we are talking my cost in tires every year to buy this
radio and a 6Db antenna.

So, please, don't add limitations I have not stated.

Now, someone stated somewhere that 6m is hard to keep attenuated, and that
might be a deal killer. Maybe 10w vas 5w is not worth the gain. Maybe 25w is
the floor.

Again, with all the praise for this unit, it seems odd it is such a wall
flower. *shrug*

When I talked to the techs at the office, they seemed to think it would be
ok, but then they are selling it, they are not going to say it can't do the
job unless it is going to damage their rep if it breaks.

Considering the almost 100% against, I think most people's reaction to a
bad review if it failed on a MC would be dumbass

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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Bill Blomgren (kk4qdz) via Elecraft

as they say oops  -- forgot to do the reply all.  Sorry about that.

KK4QDZ - Now with Extra Class Priv's, and a tiny KX3 to enjoy them!

From: Bill Blomgren (kk4qdz) billblomg...@yahoo.com
To: rgconner rgcon...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Sticking to 6 meters, you might have a chance.  Antennas will be over a meter 
tall, and a ground plane will be a problem.

That said, my experiences with 11 meters was 'iffy' --- even with a huge 
antenna on a large spring.  (Having to ride through a florida thunderstorm, you 
really don't want a pointy metalic object trying to attract millions of volts 
and hundreds of thousands of amps, so in rain in Fla, the antenna was bent over 
under my arm and hooked under a hook on the motor guards to keep it out of the 
way of lightning...)

Then again, that was back in the dark ages of the first year of the 'wing, when 
it was a 1000 cc 4 cyl, and had no reverse or wet bar

KK4QDZ - Now with Extra Class Priv's, and a tiny KX3 to enjoy them!

From: rgconner rgcon...@gmail.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Well, there is no reply all, just reply, and I am replying to the mailing
list, so I don't know what else I can do.

And yes, it is going to require an investment for everyone to go to 6m.
But... the serious HAMs that have helped provide this solution already run
6m, and the cost is rather incremental if you are riding a $30K Goldwing,
K1600 or HD bike.
Even on my F700GS, we are talking my cost in tires every year to buy this
radio and a 6Db antenna.

So, please, don't add limitations I have not stated.

Now, someone stated somewhere that 6m is hard to keep attenuated, and that
might be a deal killer. Maybe 10w vas 5w is not worth the gain. Maybe 25w is
the floor.

Again, with all the praise for this unit, it seems odd it is such a wall
flower. *shrug*

When I talked to the techs at the office, they seemed to think it would be
ok, but then they are selling it, they are not going to say it can't do the
job unless it is going to damage their rep if it breaks.

Considering the almost 100% against, I think most people's reaction to a
bad review if it failed on a MC would be dumbass

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[Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Rick Bates


 Don't forget the power budget is tighter on a motorcycle.  It might not be 
 capable of providing the amps required. 
 
 As for HF, why put a few watts into a grossly reduced efficiency antenna?  To 
 reduce the HF antenna to bike size, lowers the bandwidth as well.   Think 6 
 meters and higher. 
 
 73,
 Rick wa6nhc
 
 Tiny iPhone 5 keypad, typos are inevitable
 
 On May 4, 2014, at 3:26 PM, Bruce Beford bef...@myfairpoint.net wrote:
 
 From what I have read thus far, VHF is still the best bet for this
 application. I have not yet heard how far these riders are spread out. If a
 5W HT doesn't cut it, then perhaps adding a 30-50W amp would be more
 appropriate than going HF. Also, look at the antennas in use on the bikes,
 and their placement and adjustment. That means everyone on the ride needs to
 understand how to properly install and operate the equipment, and it's
 limitations. The bike with the lowest gain antenna/lowest power  would seem
 to dictate the effectiveness of what it sounds like you are trying to do.
 
 I still don't think outfitting 'x' number of bikes with HF is the answer.
 But, I've been wrong before. It's an interesting problem.
 
 good luck,
 Bruce
 N1RX
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?


I don't know the GMail mail client, nor am I referring only to Mr. Conner.

I do know that less than half of this conversation is on-list.

I would not expect 6 meters to do any better than 2 meters.  I do know 
that a 6 meter 1/4 wave antenna is going to be bigger than something for 
2 meters that has a little gain.  I suggested the J-pole because it is 
an end-fed half-wave and doesn't require a ground plane, and you'd want 
one for a 6 meter 1/4 wave.  The normal J-Pole also puts the radiating 
portion at least 19 inches above the mount, and getting antennas up in 
the clear is always good.


You aren't close enough together for a line-of-sight low-power VHF 
signal to work, and you aren't far enough apart to take advantage of 
sky-wave propagation.  Ground-wave might be good, but mobile antennas 
for the low end of HF are impractical, and not in your Technician 
privileges.


We should all find out what problem is being solved and then fit the 
solution to the problem, instead of just changing things until we find 
something that works.


I think effective antennas and power on VHF will work.  I like the idea 
of a good 2m amplifier that can be mounted somewhere out of the weather 
and keeping your handhelds.


Having a KX3 at home, or maybe for extended stops along the ride with 
some good portable wire antenna would be a lot of fun.


73 -- Lynn

On 5/4/2014 3:28 PM, rgconner wrote:

Well, there is no reply all, just reply, and I am replying to the mailing
list, so I don't know what else I can do.


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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

I see it all on the Nabble list.

*shrug* If tech was easy, I would not be able to afford a KX3 =)

Using the Ft-60 with an amp would be awesome. How do I do that? 




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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Mark via Elecraft

RE:  “…with all the praise for this unit, it seems odd it is such a wall 
flower…”




I wouldn’t call it a wall flower.  The radio was designed as a high performance 
trail friendly radio (TFR).  As such, it represents the best there is for that 
mission.  Light weight, small size, self contained are just a few of its 
exceptional characteristics.  Wayne set trail friendly design requirements 
early on in its design, and compromises were made in other areas to be sure it 
met those requirements.  Use in high vibration areas, immersion proofing, and 
high power output were not high priorities. 


In engineering, it is easy to think that you can make things a little better by 
“just adding one more feature”.  We call it “requirements creep”, and it is the 
death of good designs that would have worked well in the environment originally 
specified.  You see this over and over in many military designs where 
government representatives are encouraged to get a little more out of a 
supplier than what he originally agreed to.  Unless this is limited, it kills a 
good design.  In the case of the KX3, Wayne resisted requirements creep and now 
we have an absolutely beautiful TFR.


I spent much of my career taking designs similar to the KX3 through 
environmental testing.  Based on that experience, I so not believe the it is 
the best candidate for high vibration environments due to the compromises (i.e. 
small light-weight components such as No. 2 screws) necessary to meet the TFR 
requirements.  I did, however, select the KX3 for my backpack, 
walk-in-the-park, portable use radio.  It excels for those uses, and makes a 
nice table-top radio as well.


Mark
ars: KE6BB
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?


Don't forget an antenna, try a better antenna first.

The Motorcycle Amateur Radio Club has several pages on antennas. You 
might start here: http://www.marc-hq.org/40.technotes/40-10.htm


They seem to think Comet has the most durable antennas.  I don't ride a 
motorcycle nor have I used their antennas, so I can't say.


Start with the antenna.  You'll need coax with the appropriate connector 
for your FT-60R (BNC??) and whatever connects to the mount you use on 
your bike.


Mount the antenna as high as practical.  Getting the antenna up moves 
the radio horizon farther away.


I don't know the ground plane requirements (if any) for Comet, and it 
may vary from model to model (and from the models MARC used to recommend 
to the ones that Comet makes now).


If your antenna does not work well, adding an amplifier will be far less 
effective.


I've used Mirage amplifiers, but that was a few decades ago.

This is an example of their product: 
http://www.mirageamp.com/Product.php?productid=B-310-G


This will give you 100 watts out.  More than that won't help, and I 
could not find anything that said how much power they draw, or a fuse 
rating, so I don't know how your bike would cope.  I would connect it 
directly to the battery.


There are some details to work out, but just getting better antennas, up 
higher, on all of the bikes in the group could be enough to solve your 
problems.


73 -- Lynn

On 5/4/2014 4:09 PM, rgconner wrote:

Using the Ft-60 with an amp would be awesome. How do I do that?


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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

The KX3 (or any other Elecraft transceiver) is not as fragile as some in
this thread would imply. It is actually has a rather sturdy enclosure,
and the SMD boards are much more sturdy than thru-hole electronics. Put
it in a good mount and it will survive on the handlebars of those
motorcycles that you quoted. It might have a rough time on a dirt bike,
but that is another situation entirely - you are talking of comfortable
riding bikes, some even rivaling the smooth ride of a 4 wheeled luxury
vehicle.

I do think your power level may be the limiting factor, especially if
you are riding in terrain with deep valleys and canyons where
communications may be challenging. You can depend on only 5 watts from
the KX3 because if it is in strong direct sunlight and gets hot, the
power will throttle back to 5 watts. If you can keep it in the shade,
then you can depend on 10 watts.

Since the safety and well-being of everyone in your group is of utmost
concern here, I would suggest 25 watts as your power goal unless you
have tested 5 or 10 watts on 6 meters (or 10 meters) under the most
difficult situations you are likely to encounter.

Having HF capability can solve many problems for communications from
canyons and other places where 6 meter/VHF communications will not be
reliable. 80 meters and a low dipole will provide you communications in
most cases, but that means getting off the bike and putting up that 80
meter dipole, so I don't think that is your main focus (except possibly
in extreme emergency situations). I would recommend that you look into
a 6 meter (or 10 meter) transceiver with 25 to 50 watts output for
reliable communications under the conditions that you have stated.

I would think that an HF transceiver like the KX3 would be a great
choice for HF operation in camp at night, but for the terrain that you
describe it may not be the best choice for your in-route communications.

OTOH, if you have tried the CB band with 5 watt transceivers and it
works OK except for the 'yahoos', the KX3 at 5 watts on either 10 meters
or 6 meters may do the job fine for you.

73,
Don W3FPR

PS: your reply, Reply All problems come from Nabble. Move over to
the main Elecraft reflector with a computer email client (or even
webmail), and those problems will go away.

On 5/4/2014 6:28 PM, rgconner wrote:

Well, there is no reply all, just reply, and I am replying to the mailing
list, so I don't know what else I can do.

So, please, don't add limitations I have not stated.

Now, someone stated somewhere that 6m is hard to keep attenuated, and that
might be a deal killer. Maybe 10w vas 5w is not worth the gain. Maybe 25w is
the floor.

Again, with all the praise for this unit, it seems odd it is such a wall
flower. *shrug*

Considering the almost 100% against, I think most people's reaction to a
bad review if it failed on a MC would be dumbass

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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Well, I thought I mentioned we were all using Comet or Diamond, I think the 
worse is a Db5.1 gain anntena and the Elmer has a SWR meter, and we are all 
losing less than 10% on most of the bands we use. 

If I understand these amp manuals, I just hook my existing antenna wire into 
the amp, then from the amp to the Antenna. Easy peasy.

At $150 to $300 for a starter model, it is worth a try to see if the FT-60 can 
drive it effectively. I doubt the Baofeng would do it.

Ears open if anyone wants to recommend an amp

On May 4, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT 
k...@coldrockshotbrooms.com wrote:

 Don't forget an antenna, try a better antenna first.
 
 The Motorcycle Amateur Radio Club has several pages on antennas. You might 
 start here: http://www.marc-hq.org/40.technotes/40-10.htm
 
 They seem to think Comet has the most durable antennas.  I don't ride a 
 motorcycle nor have I used their antennas, so I can't say.
 
 Start with the antenna.  You'll need coax with the appropriate connector for 
 your FT-60R (BNC??) and whatever connects to the mount you use on your bike.
 
 Mount the antenna as high as practical.  Getting the antenna up moves the 
 radio horizon farther away.
 
 I don't know the ground plane requirements (if any) for Comet, and it may 
 vary from model to model (and from the models MARC used to recommend to the 
 ones that Comet makes now).
 
 If your antenna does not work well, adding an amplifier will be far less 
 effective.
 
 I've used Mirage amplifiers, but that was a few decades ago.
 
 This is an example of their product: 
 http://www.mirageamp.com/Product.php?productid=B-310-G
 
 This will give you 100 watts out.  More than that won't help, and I could not 
 find anything that said how much power they draw, or a fuse rating, so I 
 don't know how your bike would cope.  I would connect it directly to the 
 battery.
 
 There are some details to work out, but just getting better antennas, up 
 higher, on all of the bikes in the group could be enough to solve your 
 problems.
 
 73 -- Lynn
 
 On 5/4/2014 4:09 PM, rgconner wrote:
 Using the Ft-60 with an amp would be awesome. How do I do that?
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Heh. The CB550 has 105 watts, nothing but a hand held there!

The BMW has 450 or so, not a problem.

On May 4, 2014, at 3:53 PM, Rick Bates happymooseph...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 Don't forget the power budget is tighter on a motorcycle.  It might not be 
 capable of providing the amps required. 
 
 As for HF, why put a few watts into a grossly reduced efficiency antenna?  
 To reduce the HF antenna to bike size, lowers the bandwidth as well.   Think 
 6 meters and higher. 
 
 73,
 Rick wa6nhc
 
 Tiny iPhone 5 keypad, typos are inevitable
 
 On May 4, 2014, at 3:26 PM, Bruce Beford bef...@myfairpoint.net wrote:
 
 From what I have read thus far, VHF is still the best bet for this
 application. I have not yet heard how far these riders are spread out. If a
 5W HT doesn't cut it, then perhaps adding a 30-50W amp would be more
 appropriate than going HF. Also, look at the antennas in use on the bikes,
 and their placement and adjustment. That means everyone on the ride needs to
 understand how to properly install and operate the equipment, and it's
 limitations. The bike with the lowest gain antenna/lowest power  would seem
 to dictate the effectiveness of what it sounds like you are trying to do.
 
 I still don't think outfitting 'x' number of bikes with HF is the answer.
 But, I've been wrong before. It's an interesting problem.
 
 good luck,
 Bruce
 N1RX
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Using Mac Mail instead of Nabble, lets see if this works.

Most everyone on an HD or a Goidwing has a CB, because they are sold/installed
from the dealer. No one uses them. Getting a hi frequency “scree” from some
jerk is not conducive to riding.

25 watt it is. I am thinking that the Ft60 with an amp mounted in the top case
is the way to go for the next “step”

The guy with the 25w rig can be heard by everyone 99% of the time. With “call
response” in place, we can pass messages up and down the line if we have enough
25w to 5w users.

we will just have to stop (which has it’s own risks) and use a repeater/cell
phone/smoke signal/flare gun to get the group back together.
On May 4, 2014, at 4:30 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:

The KX3 (or any other Elecraft transceiver) is not as fragile as some in this
thread would imply. It is actually has a rather sturdy enclosure, and the
SMD boards are much more sturdy than thru-hole electronics. Put it in a good
mount and it will survive on the handlebars of those motorcycles that you
quoted. It might have a rough time on a dirt bike, but that is another
situation entirely - you are talking of comfortable riding bikes, some even
rivaling the smooth ride of a 4 wheeled luxury vehicle.

I do think your power level may be the limiting factor, especially if you are
riding in terrain with deep valleys and canyons where communications may be
challenging. You can depend on only 5 watts from the KX3 because if it is in
strong direct sunlight and gets hot, the power will throttle back to 5 watts.
If you can keep it in the shade, then you can depend on 10 watts.

Since the safety and well-being of everyone in your group is of utmost
concern here, I would suggest 25 watts as your power goal unless you have
tested 5 or 10 watts on 6 meters (or 10 meters) under the most difficult
situations you are likely to encounter.

Having HF capability can solve many problems for communications from canyons
and other places where 6 meter/VHF communications will not be reliable. 80
meters and a low dipole will provide you communications in most cases, but
that means getting off the bike and putting up that 80 meter dipole, so I
don't think that is your main focus (except possibly in extreme emergency
situations). I would recommend that you look into a 6 meter (or 10 meter)
transceiver with 25 to 50 watts output for reliable communications under the
conditions that you have stated.

I would think that an HF transceiver like the KX3 would be a great choice for
HF operation in camp at night, but for the terrain that you describe it may
not be the best choice for your in-route communications.

OTOH, if you have tried the CB band with 5 watt transceivers and it works OK
except for the 'yahoos', the KX3 at 5 watts on either 10 meters or 6 meters
may do the job fine for you.

73,
Don W3FPR

PS: your reply, Reply All problems come from Nabble. Move over to the
main Elecraft reflector with a computer email client (or even webmail), and
those problems will go away.

On 5/4/2014 6:28 PM, rgconner wrote:
Well, there is no reply all, just reply, and I am replying to the mailing
list, so I don't know what else I can do.

So, please, don't add limitations I have not stated.

Now, someone stated somewhere that 6m is hard to keep attenuated, and that
might be a deal killer. Maybe 10w vas 5w is not worth the gain. Maybe 25w is
the floor.

Again, with all the praise for this unit, it seems odd it is such a wall
flower. *shrug*

Considering the almost 100% against, I think most people's reaction to a
bad review if it failed on a MC would be dumbass

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Re: [Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?

2014-05-04 Thread Walter Underwood

It isn't a delicate wallflower, but it is a  pretty expensive and complicated 
way to get 3W on 2m FM. And it isn't really designed for general-purpose 2m 
use. Will it have automatic repeater offsets on 2m? Maybe not.

With a dual-band mobile, you can use a high-gain 440 antenna. You'll also have 
at least 10X the power that the KX3 could produce.

A 2M mobile radio is under $200, and a basic dual-band mobile is under $400.

wunder
K6WRU

On May 4, 2014, at 3:17 PM, rgconner rgcon...@gmail.com wrote:

 You must not use CB, or maybe it is just where I live, but if you try and use
 any channel on the CB the yahoos drown you out.
 
 REmeber, any yahoo can use CB, but a HAM operator has to pass a test. That
 appears to weed out the yahoos.
 
 I am amazed by all the things this radio does, and does well, but it is
 apparently a delicate wallflower in everyones opinion.
 
 Maybe it is, I am reluctant to shell out $1000 to prove it right or wrong. 
 
 
 



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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread George Danner

Gold Wing  Harley groups tend use built-in CB radios. CB radios in Gold 
Wings  Harleys predate FRS; so retrofitting to FRS/GMRS can cause 
compatibility issues with older bikes.
The only time that a group of 10 or so bikes loses communications is when 
one of the riders turns down the squelch so far that he can't even hear 
another bike 20' away.
Most of the helmet mounted radios are FRS /or GMRS. As far as I know in 
talking to those riders - they rarely get out of range with each other.
73
George
AI4VZ

-Original Message- 
From: K8JHR
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 5:51 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?


Now I don't mean to sound critical, but is it somehow different for guys
on bikes than for guys in cars?  We use 5 watt FRS/GMRS radios for our
MINI Cooper driving club, and we can easily have thirty or forty cars on
a tour, and have participated in groups as large as 400.  If cars get
out of range, then we are either too spread out to be a group, or
perhaps the group is too large if the front and rear cars cannot
connect, or we cannot relay info.

I suppose that is where knowing the route in advance plays a helpful
part.  We don't kibitz at every turn;  we pretty much know where we are
going in advance ... well... all except for Wrong Way Joan who gets
lost no matter what we do.

Is it so different for bikes you need such a wide signal range?  We do
multi state, multi day tours, so it it is not like we don't go anywhere,
so I am wondering why you need more range than what a 5 watt rig might
provide.

Again...not being critical, genuinely curious about this.  Might learn
something to take back to our club!

--  K8JHR 



On 5/4/2014 4:16 PM, rgconner wrote:
 5w is not enough if we get out of line of site.


 5w on 70cm works great 95% of the time, until we get canyons or lose
line of
 site.


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Re: [Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?

Starting to be sorry I asked.

On May 4, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Walter Underwood wun...@wunderwood.org wrote:

 It isn't a delicate wallflower, but it is a  pretty expensive and complicated 
 way to get 3W on 2m FM. And it isn't really designed for general-purpose 2m 
 use. Will it have automatic repeater offsets on 2m? Maybe not.
 
 With a dual-band mobile, you can use a high-gain 440 antenna. You'll also 
 have at least 10X the power that the KX3 could produce.
 
 A 2M mobile radio is under $200, and a basic dual-band mobile is under $400.
 
 wunder
 K6WRU
 
 On May 4, 2014, at 3:17 PM, rgconner rgcon...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 You must not use CB, or maybe it is just where I live, but if you try and use
 any channel on the CB the yahoos drown you out.
 
 REmeber, any yahoo can use CB, but a HAM operator has to pass a test. That
 appears to weed out the yahoos.
 
 I am amazed by all the things this radio does, and does well, but it is
 apparently a delicate wallflower in everyones opinion.
 
 Maybe it is, I am reluctant to shell out $1000 to prove it right or wrong. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?

Well, I guess that is why the FT-10 failed. $250 dollar handheld in a $500
case? or a $1000 radio in a $500 case?



--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Could-you-make-a-Element-vibration-hardend-VX3-tp7588524p7588558.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread K8JHR


Interesting observations - surely a different driving experience.
Thanks for the uptake.

We drive in Michigan,  Ontario Canada, and down in the Smokey Mountains, 
and mountains of Kentucky, North Carolina, and Tennessee, so some of 
the same terrain considerations apply.


Thanks for the courteous reply.

--- K8JHR ---

On 5/4/2014 6:08 PM, rgconner wrote:

Your passenger, which 95% of do not have, cannot effectively navigate for
you, either.



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Re: [Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?

2014-05-04 Thread Wayne Burdick

It was a perfectly valid question, Russell. Hardening the KX3 would be useful 
for high-vibration applications, but definitely on the expensive side. I'm not 
sure we could justify the engineering time or that we'd have a large enough 
market for it.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On May 4, 2014, at 4:51 PM, Russell Conner rgcon...@gmail.com wrote:

 Starting to be sorry I asked.
 
 On May 4, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Walter Underwood wun...@wunderwood.org wrote:
 
 It isn't a delicate wallflower, but it is a  pretty expensive and 
 complicated way to get 3W on 2m FM. And it isn't really designed for 
 general-purpose 2m use. Will it have automatic repeater offsets on 2m? Maybe 
 not.
 
 With a dual-band mobile, you can use a high-gain 440 antenna. You'll also 
 have at least 10X the power that the KX3 could produce.
 
 A 2M mobile radio is under $200, and a basic dual-band mobile is under $400.
 
 wunder
 K6WRU
 
 On May 4, 2014, at 3:17 PM, rgconner rgcon...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 You must not use CB, or maybe it is just where I live, but if you try and 
 use
 any channel on the CB the yahoos drown you out.
 
 REmeber, any yahoo can use CB, but a HAM operator has to pass a test. That
 appears to weed out the yahoos.
 
 I am amazed by all the things this radio does, and does well, but it is
 apparently a delicate wallflower in everyones opinion.
 
 Maybe it is, I am reluctant to shell out $1000 to prove it right or wrong. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

well, the naysayers have convinced me, the Elecraft is not the radio for me
for this application, and this is the application I need to solve first. A
home station is a year or two away, if ever.

I will just have to find a vendor that has a product that does what I need,
pity it is not this one.


On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:

 The KX3 (or any other Elecraft transceiver) is not as fragile as some in
 this thread would imply.  It is actually has a rather sturdy enclosure, and
 the SMD boards are much more sturdy than thru-hole electronics.  Put it in
 a good mount and it will survive on the handlebars of those motorcycles
 that you quoted.  It might have a rough time on a dirt bike, but that is
 another situation entirely - you are talking of comfortable riding bikes,
 some even rivaling the smooth ride of a 4 wheeled luxury vehicle.

 I do think your power level may be the limiting factor, especially if you
 are riding in terrain with deep valleys and canyons where communications
 may be challenging.  You can depend on only 5 watts from the KX3 because if
 it is in strong direct sunlight and gets hot, the power will throttle back
 to 5 watts.  If you can keep it in the shade, then you can depend on 10
 watts.

 Since the safety and well-being of everyone in your group is of utmost
 concern here, I would suggest 25 watts as your power goal unless you have
 tested 5 or 10 watts on 6 meters (or 10 meters) under the most difficult
 situations you are likely to encounter.

 Having HF capability can solve many problems for communications from
 canyons and other places where 6 meter/VHF communications will not be
 reliable.  80 meters and a low dipole will provide you communications in
 most cases, but that means getting off the bike and putting up that 80
 meter dipole, so I don't think that is your main focus (except possibly in
 extreme emergency situations).  I would recommend that you look into a 6
 meter (or 10 meter) transceiver with 25 to 50 watts output for reliable
 communications under the conditions that you have stated.

 I would think that an HF transceiver like the KX3 would be a great choice
 for HF operation in camp at night, but for the terrain that you describe it
 may not be the best choice for your in-route communications.

 OTOH, if you have tried the CB band with 5 watt transceivers and it works
 OK except for the 'yahoos', the KX3 at 5 watts on either 10 meters or 6
 meters may do the job fine for you.

 73,
 Don W3FPR

 PS: your reply, Reply All problems come from Nabble.  Move over to the
 main Elecraft reflector with a computer email client (or even webmail), and
 those problems will go away.



 On 5/4/2014 6:28 PM, rgconner wrote:

 Well, there is no reply all, just reply, and I am replying to the mailing
 list, so I don't know what else I can do.

 And yes, it is going to require an investment for everyone to go to 6m.
 But... the serious HAMs that have helped provide this solution already run
 6m, and the cost is rather incremental if you are riding a $30K Goldwing,
 K1600 or HD bike.
 Even on my F700GS, we are talking my cost in tires every year to buy this
 radio and a 6Db antenna.

 So, please, don't add limitations I have not stated.

 Now, someone stated somewhere that 6m is hard to keep attenuated, and that
 might be a deal killer. Maybe 10w vas 5w is not worth the gain. Maybe 25w
 is
 the floor.

 Again, with all the praise for this unit, it seems odd it is such a wall
 flower. *shrug*

 When I talked to the techs at the office, they seemed to think it would be
 ok, but then they are selling it, they are not going to say it can't do
 the
 job unless it is going to damage their rep if it breaks.

 Considering the almost 100% against, I think most people's reaction to a
 bad review if it failed on a MC would be dumbass




 --
 View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.
 nabble.com/Could-this-operate-on-a-motorcycle-tp7588505p7588545.html
 Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Your email response reached both my email and the Elecraft reflector 
just fine.  Nabble has gotten 'flaky' recently with the sender 
identified as Elecraft Refector  I use only the Elecraft email list 
and do not monkey with Nabble ond other derivatives of the Elecraft list.


I think your most recent choice is the best for your particular 
situation.  While the KX3 is a great transceiver, it does have power 
limitations for your situation as I understand it.  You are looking for 
reliable communications in difficult propagation areas.  Those who are 
on the Eastern part of the US may not appreciate the radio propagation 
problems from deep valleys and canyons (although some in West Virginia 
may understand).


Since the guy with the 25 watt rig can be heard most of the time, i 
figure that should be your goal.  The other 1 percent can be handled via 
cell phone or other means.


Sorry to deprive Elecraft of the sale of multiple KX3s, but if 5 watts 
is not going to be adequate in potentially life saving events, then one 
must go with whatever will do the job.


Take the KX3 along in your motorcycle trunk (or saddlebags or whatever 
you call the stowage) along with an antenna for HF and enjoy some QSOs 
when you settle down for a good night's rest.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/4/2014 7:43 PM, Russell Conner wrote:

Using  Mac Mail instead of Nabble, lets see if this works.

Most everyone on an HD or a Goidwing has a CB, because they are sold/installed 
from the dealer. No one uses them. Getting a hi frequency “scree” from some 
jerk is not conducive to riding.

25 watt it is. I am thinking that the Ft60 with an amp mounted in the top case 
is the way to go for the next “step”

The guy with the 25w rig can be heard by everyone 99% of the time. With “call 
response” in place, we can pass messages up and down the line if we have enough 
25w to 5w users.

we will just have to stop (which has it’s own risks) and use a repeater/cell 
phone/smoke signal/flare gun to get the group back together.
On May 4, 2014, at 4:30 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:




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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Phil Kane

On 5/4/2014 3:28 PM, rgconner wrote:

 Now, someone stated somewhere that 6m is hard to keep attenuated, and that
 might be a deal killer. Maybe 10w vas 5w is not worth the gain. Maybe 25w is
 the floor.

OK, the 5 w hand-held won't cut it.  For about the third or less of the
price of a KX3 think about a 50-60W VHF mobile - about half the size of
the KX3.  If you can't cut it with 50W mobile, there are serious
problems.  We routinely get 10-15 miles full quieting.
-- --
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Phil Kane

On 5/4/2014 4:29 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

 This will give you 100 watts out.  More than that won't help, and I
 could not find anything that said how much power they draw, or a fuse
 rating, so I don't know how your bike would cope.  I would connect it
 directly to the battery.

Consider the RF Exposure hazard of sitting that close to a 100 watt
antenna!  50 W may even be too much.
-- --
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

It's the wrong radio for this application in the same way a hammer would 
be a poor choice if you need to drive screws.


On 5/4/2014 5:17 PM, Russell Conner wrote:

well, the naysayers have convinced me, the Elecraft is not the radio for me
for this application, and this is the application I need to solve first.


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Re: [Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?

I understand, I have an electronics background too, just like I'd imagine
anyone attracted to your fine product. I can see the time and passion you
put into your product.

You could have come back and said we are working on it or It is most of
the way there, it just is not water resistant or We know someone who has
a modification guide I figured no harm in asking boy was I wrong.

Unfortunately, this thread, and the other thread, have convinced me I have
to pass on your excellent product.

Makes me a very sad HAM.


On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote:

 It was a perfectly valid question, Russell. Hardening the KX3 would be
 useful for high-vibration applications, but definitely on the expensive
 side. I'm not sure we could justify the engineering time or that we'd have
 a large enough market for it.

 73,
 Wayne
 N6KR


 On May 4, 2014, at 4:51 PM, Russell Conner rgcon...@gmail.com wrote:

  Starting to be sorry I asked.
 
  On May 4, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Walter Underwood wun...@wunderwood.org
 wrote:
 
  It isn't a delicate wallflower, but it is a  pretty expensive and
 complicated way to get 3W on 2m FM. And it isn't really designed for
 general-purpose 2m use. Will it have automatic repeater offsets on 2m?
 Maybe not.
 
  With a dual-band mobile, you can use a high-gain 440 antenna. You'll
 also have at least 10X the power that the KX3 could produce.
 
  A 2M mobile radio is under $200, and a basic dual-band mobile is under
 $400.
 
  wunder
  K6WRU
 
  On May 4, 2014, at 3:17 PM, rgconner rgcon...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  You must not use CB, or maybe it is just where I live, but if you try
 and use
  any channel on the CB the yahoos drown you out.
 
  REmeber, any yahoo can use CB, but a HAM operator has to pass a test.
 That
  appears to weed out the yahoos.
 
  I am amazed by all the things this radio does, and does well, but it is
  apparently a delicate wallflower in everyones opinion.
 
  Maybe it is, I am reluctant to shell out $1000 to prove it right or
 wrong.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

LOL, I will have to put a tin foil shield in the Vanson leather jacket!

Bike handles two sets of 105w of heated clothing, 210w total so I suspect
it would be ok.


But I think 25 to 50 would be plenty.


On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Phil Kane k2...@kanafi.org wrote:

 On 5/4/2014 4:29 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

  This will give you 100 watts out.  More than that won't help, and I
  could not find anything that said how much power they draw, or a fuse
  rating, so I don't know how your bike would cope.  I would connect it
  directly to the battery.

 Consider the RF Exposure hazard of sitting that close to a 100 watt
 antenna!  50 W may even be too much.
 -- --
 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
 Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
 Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Jim Brown


On 5/4/2014 5:17 PM, Russell Conner wrote:

well, the naysayers have convinced me, the Elecraft is not the radio for me
for this application, and this is the application I need to solve first. A
home station is a year or two away, if ever.


Hi Russell,

Congratulations on getting your license. The experience and backgrounds 
of those who have offered advice is pretty widely varied -- everything 
from true expert to opinions only to hearsay. Most of us own Elecraft 
rigs, and most have owned lots of other rigs too, over the years. I've 
had nearly 20 in the 60 years I've been a ham. Many of us own and use 2M 
and 440 MHz rigs -- I certainly do -- and I mostly use them on the road.


I agree with the advice that Elecraft does not make a product to do what 
you want on your motorcycle -- for the short distances involved, I'd be 
looking at either a 2M rig if all the guys in your group are hams, or an 
FRS radio if they are not, looking for something you can fit with a 
suitable headset.


As others have noted, the KX3 is a great rig for home, backpacking, and 
travel. That's what it's designed for. When you are ready for a rig like 
that, it's head and shoulders above the rest. Sort of like the 
difference between a Harley and a motor scooter. :)


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle? [KX3-ish discussion]

As I have said, I think that I have been convinced.

If for no other reason, than if I did this, and had some sort of issue,
perhaps unrelated to the environment, the reaction may be We told you so

The bulk of the advice is to say Not the product for you and I am going
to take you all's advice.

Pity, it is such a fine product made by people who have passion for what
they do.



On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Mike Morrow k...@earthlink.net wrote:


  I am not using it rag chew. I am using it communicate with the 2 to 6
 other
  ride leaders to coordinate and keep the ride together.

  General usage would be on a single channel all day long, unless we got
  separated, then we would have designated open repeaters to tune to during
  the ride.

 Explain again, to slow people like me not as wise, why a multi-mode MF/HF
 radio would better serve for mobile VHF-FM use...a radio that has only
 a few watts output on 6 meters and, as yet, has no 2 meter capability (and
 will be **very** power-limited when it becomes available)?  If you use
 simplex,
 and you get parties separated with obstructions between them, a few watts
 on
 VHF may not do the job you need.

  Chuck sent me an email, after remembering that the Kenwood you mentioned
 is
  the same approx size, shape and orientation as the KX3.
  And a bit cheaper, although again, you get what you pay for.

 I don't know WHO recommended WHAT Kenwood, but nothing that you just wrote
 is
 true about the very best candidates for your application...radios such as
 the
 Alinco DR-135T, Icom IC-2300H, Kenwood TM-281A, or Yaesu FT-1900R.  Thay
 are
 all very small 2 meter mobile radios providing at least 50 watts output
 with
 a street cost of around $150 or less.  You could buy ten of them for every
 one
 well-fitted KX3!  They also provide weather channel and some public service
 channel reception, are far more rugged than the KX3, and are much more
 likely
 to survive abuse encountered in mobile installations such as you describe.
 They are also extremely simple to use.

 You do NOT need multi-band VHF capability for your application.  Trying
 to use six meters complicates things like antenna installation.  Two-band
 use would be best limited to 2m and 70cm, since the antenna size will not
 be
 grossly affected.  One inexpensive small VHF-FM mobile unit with one simple
 mono-band antenna will serve better than a KX3-in-a-box-on-handlebars.

 What you have been describing as your rationale for choosing a KX3 is
 *very*
 bizarre to anyone technically knowledgeable of mobile communications
 applications.
 Is there's a back story that isn't being made apparent?  Perhaps you
 actually
 wish to justify purchase of the KX3 for better use later with an upgraded
 license.
 In that case...get a KX3.  It's a great choice for sophisticated
 communications
 needs, but it's a terrible choice for what you describe.  Get the KX3 for
 ham use,
 but buy a cheap but decent 2 meter FM rig for two-wheeler mobile use.

 Mike / KK5F

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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

Hmm. What I think the biggest issue is that I am both a motorcycle
enthusiast and a budding HAM enthusiast... although the shine is coming off
quickly.

Motor scooters come in 600+ cc now, they are as big and fast as half the
motorcycles out there. BMW's C600 will cruise all day long, and you can get
up and 1000 miles again the next day if you want.

This highlights the difficulty: lack of mine and others knowledge of both
spheres in equal depth. I know motorcycles. I don't know HAM as well. You
all know the HAM as well, but there seems to be not an overlap with
motorcycles so much.

And, considering the spec this was designed for: home, backpacking, and
travel. it sounds like another product: cell phones.

And we motorcyclists mount our cellphones to the handlebars all the time,
even small tablets.

So I am surprised those products fair better than the KX3 in the
overlapping home, backpacking, and travel. environment.

I have broken 3 phones packpacking, so I guess the KX3 is out altogether if
it is not as rugged as as say, a Galaxy S phone.

My 2c worth.

On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 5:59 PM, Jim Brown-10 [via Elecraft]
ml-node+s365791n7588568...@n2.nabble.com wrote:

On 5/4/2014 5:17 PM, Russell Conner wrote:
well, the naysayers have convinced me, the Elecraft is not the radio for
me
for this application, and this is the application I need to solve first.
A
home station is a year or two away, if ever.

Hi Russell,

Congratulations on getting your license. The experience and backgrounds
of those who have offered advice is pretty widely varied -- everything
from true expert to opinions only to hearsay. Most of us own Elecraft
rigs, and most have owned lots of other rigs too, over the years. I've
had nearly 20 in the 60 years I've been a ham. Many of us own and use 2M
and 440 MHz rigs -- I certainly do -- and I mostly use them on the road.

I agree with the advice that Elecraft does not make a product to do what
you want on your motorcycle -- for the short distances involved, I'd be
looking at either a 2M rig if all the guys in your group are hams, or an
FRS radio if they are not, looking for something you can fit with a
suitable headset.

As others have noted, the KX3 is a great rig for home, backpacking, and
travel. That's what it's designed for. When you are ready for a rig like
that, it's head and shoulders above the rest. Sort of like the
difference between a Harley and a motor scooter. :)

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?

2014-05-04 Thread Jim Brown


On 5/4/2014 5:41 PM, Russell Conner wrote:

You could have come back and said we are working on it or It is most of
the way there, it just is not water resistant or We know someone who has
a modification guide I figured no harm in asking boy was I wrong.


Russell,

You're being unfair. You got a direct response (and on the weekend, too) 
from Wayne, N6KR, one of the two OWNERS of Elecraft, and who is the 
designer of the KX3. Try that with any other company. His response was 
honest, direct, and not at all unreasonable. He understands the market 
for his products, he understands the cost of a hardened radio, and he 
knows that his customers don't need it and certainly would be unwilling 
to pay the high added cost. I suspect that, with your electronics 
background, if you looked at the radio in question, you would agree.


Elecraft is a small company, they make a small range of products, all 
primarly aimed at the HF ham bands, all are designed and built in the 
US, and they don't sell through dealers that add cost to the consumer.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread K8JHR


Hmmm kinda biting the hand that feeds you, here.  ;-)

Considering your last three posts, you are kinda sound just a little bit 
angry we do not agree with your plan.  You are, of course, free to buy 
the rig and use the radio as you think best, but it may be just a wee 
bit inappropriate to blame us for your disappointment that we do not 
think the rig is the best tool for the given task.


Your condescending remarks are misplaced and tantamount to a lawyer 
impeaching his own witness ... sorry he asked, not because he was out of 
line, or that the question was improper;   but  because he simply did 
not get the answer he wanted!   You impugn our knowledge of the 
application ... but frankly there are many among us who have deep 
insight into, and experience in, the very application you ask about.


Good luck on the project, your club is lucky to have such a staunch 
advocate researching the options.


Just MY take... Happy days, OM.

---  K8JHR  --





On 5/4/2014 9:10 PM, rgconner wrote:

Hmm. What I think the biggest issue is that I am both a motorcycle
enthusiast and a budding HAM enthusiast... although the shine is coming off
quickly.

Motor scooters come in 600+ cc now, they are as big and fast as half the
motorcycles out there. BMW's C600 will cruise all day long, and you can get
up and 1000 miles again the next day if you want.

This highlights the difficulty: lack of mine and others knowledge of both
spheres in equal depth. I know motorcycles. I don't know HAM as well. You
all know the HAM as well, but there seems to be not an overlap with
motorcycles so much.

And, considering the spec this was designed for: home, backpacking, and
travel. it sounds like another product: cell phones.

And we motorcyclists mount our cellphones to the handlebars all the time,
even small tablets.

So I am surprised those products fair better than the KX3 in the
overlapping home, backpacking, and travel. environment.

I have broken 3 phones packpacking, so I guess the KX3 is out altogether if
it is not as rugged as as say, a Galaxy S phone.

My 2c worth.

On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 5:59 PM, Jim Brown-10 [via Elecraft] 
ml-node+s365791n7588568...@n2.nabble.com wrote:


On 5/4/2014 5:17 PM, Russell Conner wrote:

well, the naysayers have convinced me, the Elecraft is not the radio for

me

for this application, and this is the application I need to solve first.

A

home station is a year or two away, if ever.


Hi Russell,

Congratulations on getting your license. The experience and backgrounds
of those who have offered advice is pretty widely varied -- everything
from true expert to opinions only to hearsay. Most of us own Elecraft
rigs, and most have owned lots of other rigs too, over the years. I've
had nearly 20 in the 60 years I've been a ham. Many of us own and use 2M
and 440 MHz rigs -- I certainly do -- and I mostly use them on the road.

I agree with the advice that Elecraft does not make a product to do what
you want on your motorcycle -- for the short distances involved, I'd be
looking at either a 2M rig if all the guys in your group are hams, or an
FRS radio if they are not, looking for something you can fit with a
suitable headset.

As others have noted, the KX3 is a great rig for home, backpacking, and
travel. That's what it's designed for. When you are ready for a rig like
that, it's head and shoulders above the rest. Sort of like the
difference between a Harley and a motor scooter. :)

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

2014-05-04 Thread Walter Underwood

You asked about a specific application, co-ordinating rider
leader/wingman/tailgunners actions during rides. A VHF mobile or VHF/UHF
mobile is perfect for that. They are small, affordable, and the mobile antennas
are efficient.

The issue is not Elecraft, it is using HF for this purpose. HF mobile antennas
are inefficient, often losing 10dB compared to a full-sized antenna. That means
you really need 100W. One reply suggested two 100W HF rigs, the IC-706 and
IC-7000.

The Elecraft 100W amp would work for this, but it raises the cost to around
$2500 per vehicle, which is 10X the cost of a 2m mobile radio. One of the
reasons Elecraft gave for building the 100W amp was to make the KX3 usable
mobile.

6m or 10m do not have much advantage over 2m in this application, so there is
no reason to spend more money to run on those bands. If you did want those
bands, the IC-8900R covers 10m through 70cm with 50W for $400 (35W on 70cm)
(http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/fm_txvrs/0890.html).

I'm a backpacker and I love my KX3. I go lots of places where cell phones don't
work. But I would not recommend it for a motorcycle. I'm driving up to Oregon
next week and I'll try to get on the noontime net with 10W mobile, but I don't
really expect that to work.

wunder
K6WRU
http://observer.wunderwood.org/

On May 4, 2014, at 6:10 PM, rgconner rgcon...@gmail.com wrote:

Hmm. What I think the biggest issue is that I am both a motorcycle
enthusiast and a budding HAM enthusiast... although the shine is coming off
quickly.

Motor scooters come in 600+ cc now, they are as big and fast as half the
motorcycles out there. BMW's C600 will cruise all day long, and you can get
up and 1000 miles again the next day if you want.

And, considering the spec this was designed for: home, backpacking, and
travel. it sounds like another product: cell phones.

And we motorcyclists mount our cellphones to the handlebars all the time,
even small tablets.

So I am surprised those products fair better than the KX3 in the
overlapping home, backpacking, and travel. environment.

I have broken 3 phones packpacking, so I guess the KX3 is out altogether if
it is not as rugged as as say, a Galaxy S phone.

My 2c worth.

On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 5:59 PM, Jim Brown-10 [via Elecraft]
ml-node+s365791n7588568...@n2.nabble.com wrote:

Hi Russell,

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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?


On 5/4/2014 5:30 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

Consider the RF Exposure hazard of sitting that close to a 100 watt
antenna!  50 W may even be too much.
Personally, I'd use some kind of mast, and get the antenna UP so I was 
under the radiation pattern instead of in it, and if the HT on low power 
drove it to 20-30 watts, that's what I'd use most of the time.

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Re: [Elecraft] Could this operate on a motorcycle?

As I have stated many times. 5w is not cutting it.
Sorry, it is not. People saying it is all I need is not changing the facts.
With a 5.1Db gain antenna, the local terrain is killing the signals in
larger than 12 man groups, single file through the hills.

We need more in many cases.


On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 6:29 PM, Walter Underwood wun...@wunderwood.orgwrote:

 You asked about a specific application, co-ordinating rider
 leader/wingman/tailgunners actions during rides. A VHF mobile or VHF/UHF
 mobile is perfect for that. They are small, affordable, and the mobile
 antennas are efficient.

 The issue is not Elecraft, it is using HF for this purpose. HF mobile
 antennas are inefficient, often losing 10dB compared to a full-sized
 antenna. That means you really need 100W. One reply suggested two 100W HF
 rigs, the IC-706 and IC-7000.

 The Elecraft 100W amp would work for this, but it raises the cost to
 around $2500 per vehicle, which is 10X the cost of a 2m mobile radio. One
 of the reasons Elecraft gave for building the 100W amp was to make the KX3
 usable mobile.

 6m or 10m do not have much advantage over 2m in this application, so there
 is no reason to spend more money to run on those bands. If you did want
 those bands, the IC-8900R covers 10m through 70cm with 50W for $400 (35W on
 70cm) (http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/fm_txvrs/0890.html).

 I'm a backpacker and I love my KX3. I go lots of places where cell phones
 don't work. But I would not recommend it for a motorcycle. I'm driving up
 to Oregon next week and I'll try to get on the noontime net with 10W
 mobile, but I don't really expect that to work.

 wunder
 K6WRU
 http://observer.wunderwood.org/

 On May 4, 2014, at 6:10 PM, rgconner rgcon...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hmm. What I think the biggest issue is that I am both a motorcycle
  enthusiast and a budding HAM enthusiast... although the shine is coming
 off
  quickly.
 
  Motor scooters come in 600+ cc now, they are as big and fast as half
 the
  motorcycles out there. BMW's C600 will cruise all day long, and you can
 get
  up and 1000 miles again the next day if you want.
 
  This highlights the difficulty: lack of mine and others knowledge of both
  spheres in equal depth. I know motorcycles. I don't know HAM as well. You
  all know the HAM as well, but there seems to be not an overlap with
  motorcycles so much.
 
  And, considering the spec this was designed for: home, backpacking, and
  travel. it sounds like another product: cell phones.
 
  And we motorcyclists mount our cellphones to the handlebars all the time,
  even small tablets.
 
  So I am surprised those products fair better than the KX3 in the
  overlapping home, backpacking, and travel. environment.
 
  I have broken 3 phones packpacking, so I guess the KX3 is out altogether
 if
  it is not as rugged as as say, a Galaxy S phone.
 
  My 2c worth.
 
  On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 5:59 PM, Jim Brown-10 [via Elecraft] 
  ml-node+s365791n7588568...@n2.nabble.com wrote:
 
  On 5/4/2014 5:17 PM, Russell Conner wrote:
  well, the naysayers have convinced me, the Elecraft is not the radio
 for
  me
  for this application, and this is the application I need to solve
 first.
  A
  home station is a year or two away, if ever.
 
  Hi Russell,
 
  Congratulations on getting your license. The experience and backgrounds
  of those who have offered advice is pretty widely varied -- everything
  from true expert to opinions only to hearsay. Most of us own Elecraft
  rigs, and most have owned lots of other rigs too, over the years. I've
  had nearly 20 in the 60 years I've been a ham. Many of us own and use 2M
  and 440 MHz rigs -- I certainly do -- and I mostly use them on the road.
 
  I agree with the advice that Elecraft does not make a product to do what
  you want on your motorcycle -- for the short distances involved, I'd be
  looking at either a 2M rig if all the guys in your group are hams, or an
  FRS radio if they are not, looking for something you can fit with a
  suitable headset.
 
  As others have noted, the KX3 is a great rig for home, backpacking, and
  travel. That's what it's designed for. When you are ready for a rig like
  that, it's head and shoulders above the rest. Sort of like the
  difference between a Harley and a motor scooter. :)
 
  73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?

2014-05-04 Thread Fred Jensen


On 5/4/2014 2:47 PM, Matt VK2RQ wrote:


After your ride, if you want to set
up camp, throw up an antenna and work some HF, then the KX3 is great
for that. It's about using the right tool for the right job.


I believe he said he had just passed his Technician license, somewhat 
limiting on HF.  I'll agree with all the rest, KX3 is not the 
recommended radio.  A large group of hams provide comm support for the 
Western States Endurance Run and the Tevis Cup Endurance Ride on parts 
of the historic Western States Trail from Sacramento to Salt Lake City 
in the Sierra Nevada.  Very rugged territory, we use a lot of repeaters, 
but simplex VHF works very well with HT's over 5-7 mi ranges.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

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Re: [Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?

Yes, but I have at least 2 Generals and an extra class in the group... I
can give them control of the rig and use their license at camp, yes?


On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Fred Jensen k6...@foothill.net wrote:

 On 5/4/2014 2:47 PM, Matt VK2RQ wrote:

  After your ride, if you want to set
 up camp, throw up an antenna and work some HF, then the KX3 is great
 for that. It's about using the right tool for the right job.


 I believe he said he had just passed his Technician license, somewhat
 limiting on HF.  I'll agree with all the rest, KX3 is not the recommended
 radio.  A large group of hams provide comm support for the Western States
 Endurance Run and the Tevis Cup Endurance Ride on parts of the historic
 Western States Trail from Sacramento to Salt Lake City in the Sierra
 Nevada.  Very rugged territory, we use a lot of repeaters, but simplex VHF
 works very well with HT's over 5-7 mi ranges.

 73,

 Fred K6DGW
 - Northern California Contest Club
 - CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
 - www.cqp.org


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Re: [Elecraft] Could you make a Element/vibration hardend VX3?