Re: [Elecraft] Feature request K4 ATU - nearest band tuning

[Andrew Moore]

I wonder if the K4 & tuner could a good enough approximation based on RX
signal level or even background noise level.

When I've done this manually, for both outside and within the ham bands,
using the L & C on my external tuner, I can hear the difference and know
generally where a good match is found.

Surely the K4 could do better than my ears. Seems like this would be
possible without even transmitting. Could be a great feature.

73
Andrew NV1B
..


On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 9:50 AM Magnus Danielson via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> So, beyond the fun of doing QSOs, I also listen to intermediary bands.
> Sometimes however it is clear that it would be good to have the ATU tune
> up. So the manual procedure I do is to go to nearest band, tune there,
> and go back. This way I will not transmitt out of band, and the tuning
> is not really perfect for my listening, but I have noticed that
> listening condition becomes better so this approximation kind of works.
> Now, it would be great if just hitting the ATU TUNE would do this for me
> in the background, so hence a feature request.
>
> Technically, one wants to use the mid point f2 = sqrt(f1*f3) where f1 is
> the upper side of lower band and f3 is the lower side of the upper band
> from the frequency fVFO. If fVFO < f2, then tune on the upper side of
> lower band, else tune on the lower side of upper band.
>
> The radio will need to know the legal borders of the bands for the
> country to do this. Also, you most likely want to have a configuration
> variable to enable/disable this feature. When disabled, todays behaviour
> of refusing tuning can be used.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Charlie T]

I used to like that feature with the Icom's, but touch-screens make it
redundant now.

73, Charlie k3ICH




-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2019 1:48 PM
To: Kevin, N4TT ; Elecraft Reflector Reflector

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

Kev and all,

No vote on that dynamic VFO tuning for me.  It would only be suitable for me
if I could turn it off.
I have used a couple transceivers that had that type of tuning and it drove
me nuts.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2019 1:38 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:
> Consider one of the settings for your computer mouse is shifting 
> resolution. This allows you to move the mouse real fast to get from 
> one end of three monitors to the other. And then, when you slow down, 
> the mouse goes into micro-resolution mode and you can be very precise 
> in your movements. This may be a Logitech feature.
> 
> I was thinking the same concept could be used for the VFO. I'm 
> familiar with the Fine/Course and RATE buttons but I was thinking 
> (danger Will
> Robinson) that it would be nice to quickly shift to the next RTTY 
> signal and then automatically switch to the FINE selection based on 
> how fast you turn the VFO.
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Bill Frantz]

I think the P3 center mode has this feature.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 7/20/19 at 10:38 AM, kkinde...@gmail.com (Kevin, N4TT) wrote:

> Consider one of the settings for your computer mouse is shifting
> resolution. This allows you to move the mouse real fast to get from one end
> of three monitors to the other. And then, when you slow down, the mouse
> goes into micro-resolution mode and you can be very precise in your
> movements. This may be a Logitech feature.
> 
> I was thinking the same concept could be used for the VFO. I'm familiar
> with the Fine/Course and RATE buttons but I was thinking (danger Will
> Robinson) that it would be nice to quickly shift to the next RTTY signal
> and then automatically switch to the FINE selection based on how fast you
> turn the VFO.
---
Bill Frantz|The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  |is there are so many to choose| 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |from.   - Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Dick Dievendorff]

KPOD macros could stitch together 50 kHz with of UPn;UPn; or DNn or use direct 
frequency entry with FA for the bottom of the phone and CW band segments for a 
few bands.

What I do in contests is type a frequency into the callsign input area of N1MM; 
the hands stay on the keyboard. I also sometimes slowly tune the radio with up 
and down keyboard keys when I’m using a computer.

When in an assisted contest, you can jump to the next spot you haven’t worked 
in the bandmap with a single keystroke.

I don’t always use a computer for operating, but when I care about the time it 
takes is usually in a contest when I’m using a computer logger.

73 de Dick,  K6KR

> On Jul 21, 2019, at 17:27, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
> There is a similar computer feature called “mouse acceleration”. It has been 
> around for at least 20 years and people still haven’t agreed on whether it is 
> a good or bad thing.
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> 
>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:50 AM, Ignacy  wrote:
>> 
>> Is it a feature of ICOMs?
>> Neat as QSY to a far away frequency can be done without pressing any extra
>> button.
>> On the other hand, band-segment memories and clicking on spots makes
>> long-range QSYing less important.
>> Ignacy, NO9E
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Walter Underwood]

There is a similar computer feature called “mouse acceleration”. It has been 
around for at least 20 years and people still haven’t agreed on whether it is a 
good or bad thing.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:50 AM, Ignacy  wrote:
> 
> Is it a feature of ICOMs?
> Neat as QSY to a far away frequency can be done without pressing any extra
> button.
> On the other hand, band-segment memories and clicking on spots makes
> long-range QSYing less important.
> Ignacy, NO9E
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[KENT TRIMBLE]

Inrad had a mod about 20 years ago for the FT-1000/D which they called a 
"Tuning Upgrader" that provided a slower tuning rate than stock when you 
turned the main knob slower, restored the stock tuning rate when you 
turned the knob faster, and a higher tuning rate (25 KHz) when you spun 
the knob even faster.  It was a great modification which the FT-1000 
needed, but unfortunately is no longer offered.


No enhancements are needed to the K3's tuning rate(s), in my opinion.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV


On 7/21/2019 11:50 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:
 I had an Yaesu satellite-capable HF/VHF/UHF radio for quite 
awhile [FT-847??] that had a spring-loaded ring around the main tuning 
knob that would QSY faster the more you turned it.  Yaesu called it 
the "Jog Ring" or something like that.  Despite how good the concept 
sounds, I found it worse than useless ... it really [really] got in 
the way of using the radio. 


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 7/21/2019 8:47 AM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:

Or, I
could propose a method of changing VFO resolution based on turn rate. I
like proposing things. One out of 100 gets a "hey, not a bad idea" 
comment.

:)



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Fred Jensen]

  I had an Yaesu satellite-capable HF/VHF/UHF radio for quite 
awhile [FT-847??] that had a spring-loaded ring around the main tuning 
knob that would QSY faster the more you turned it.  Yaesu called it the 
"Jog Ring" or something like that.  Despite how good the concept sounds, 
I found it worse than useless ... it really [really] got in the way of 
using the radio. 


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 7/21/2019 8:47 AM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:

Or, I
could propose a method of changing VFO resolution based on turn rate. I
like proposing things. One out of 100 gets a "hey, not a bad idea" comment.
:)



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Don Wilhelm]

Kev,

Since you use the K-Pod, why don't you set CONFIG:VFO OFS to ON, and 
then set CONFIG:VFO CRS for whatever Coarse setting you want (that is a 
per mode setting).


Then on the K-Pod, when you want a fast QSY, just flip the bottom switch 
to the RIT position and move the knob with the coarse steps - it can 
work as long as you do not have RIT or XIT turned on.

Switch the rocker back to VFO A (or B) to finish the fine tuning.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/21/2019 11:47 AM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:

A scenario from yesterday's contest.

I have the P3 set up to view about 3 or more KHz of spectrum. I use a K-pod
to run my way up from low to high. I like the FINE setting to get that
signal right where I want it but would like a course transition up to that
signal. I could push a button to turn off FINE or turn on COARSE, run to
the signal, push a button again to go back to FINE and finish the tuning. I
could set up the macro buttons on the KPOD to do this so I didn't have to
reach for the radio but still have to turn the functions on/off. Or, I
could propose a method of changing VFO resolution based on turn rate. I
like proposing things. One out of 100 gets a "hey, not a bad idea" comment.

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Kevin, N4TT]

A scenario from yesterday's contest.

I have the P3 set up to view about 3 or more KHz of spectrum. I use a K-pod
to run my way up from low to high. I like the FINE setting to get that
signal right where I want it but would like a course transition up to that
signal. I could push a button to turn off FINE or turn on COARSE, run to
the signal, push a button again to go back to FINE and finish the tuning. I
could set up the macro buttons on the KPOD to do this so I didn't have to
reach for the radio but still have to turn the functions on/off. Or, I
could propose a method of changing VFO resolution based on turn rate. I
like proposing things. One out of 100 gets a "hey, not a bad idea" comment.
:)

Options to change rates or even disable rate changes sounds fine to me.
There are features of the radio I don't use or turn off and they don't
affect me while operating. Others find those features useful so I'm all for
them being included. Clicking on spots is a possibility but not often
permitted (or changes class) in contests. I should be clear, the value of
this feature for me is in contesting where I'd prefer to keep my two hands
in place rather than flittering around different controls.

"MENU:VFO CTS will select 100/200/400 steps per revolution of the encoder."
Simply (tongue in cheek) add the option 100/200/400/variable. Maybe the
variable shifts between 100, 200, 400 based on VFO speed.

At any rate, the request stands. I would like to see a variable tuning rate
in the K3s, KX3 and K4HD which I plan to purchase after it is available or
test one out if Elecraft wants to send me one to play with.

Thanks for considering.

73,
Kev N4TT

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 10:52 AM Ignacy  wrote:

> Is it a feature of ICOMs?
> Neat as QSY to a far away frequency can be done without pressing any extra
> button.
> On the other hand, band-segment memories and clicking on spots makes
> long-range QSYing less important.
> Ignacy, NO9E
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Ignacy]

Is it a feature of ICOMs?
Neat as QSY to a far away frequency can be done without pressing any extra
button.
On the other hand, band-segment memories and clicking on spots makes
long-range QSYing less important.
Ignacy, NO9E



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Doug Person]

And yet I find it a valuable feature on my other radios. It takes some 
serious intent to get the tuning rate to shift. Sensitivity can be 
adjustable and the increment value as well. I personally find it 
annoying to have to keep hitting a button to change the tuning rate. It 
would be quite easy to make this an adjustable, customization feature 
with a few menu options - off being one of them. Most current radios 
have this feature.


Doug -- KJ0F

On 7/20/2019 2:50 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
I agree with Don and Joe.   One of my radios some 10 years ago had the 
feature.  It could be turned on or off.  Yet some really didn't like 
it and some thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.    To 
me, my K3S in its present configuration fits ALL of my needs.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 7/20/2019 2:26 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


I agree with Don.  The K3/K3S already supports three tuning rates
depending on the operation of the Fine/Coarse control (HOLD/Coarse =
100 Hz/step, Fine = 10 Hz/step, Double tap Fine = 1 Hz/step). In
addition, MENU:VFO CRS will select 1 KHz or 10 Hz/step and MENU:VFO
CTS will select 100/200/400 steps per revolution of the encoder.

Finally MENU:VFO OFS will allow the RIT control to move the VFO by
the COARSE setting when RIT is OFF.

The K3/K3S is already far more flexible and user friendly than any
variable speed VFO implementation (one reason I have rejected the
Yaesu FTdx101!).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2019-07-20 1:48 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Kev and all,

No vote on that dynamic VFO tuning for me.  It would only be 
suitable for me if I could turn it off.
I have used a couple transceivers that had that type of tuning and 
it drove me nuts.


73,
Don W3FPR 


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73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I agree with Don and Joe.   One of my radios some 10 years ago had the 
feature.  It could be turned on or off.  Yet some really didn't like it 
and some thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.    To me, my 
K3S in its present configuration fits ALL of my needs.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 7/20/2019 2:26 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


I agree with Don.  The K3/K3S already supports three tuning rates
depending on the operation of the Fine/Coarse control (HOLD/Coarse =
100 Hz/step, Fine = 10 Hz/step, Double tap Fine = 1 Hz/step).  In
addition, MENU:VFO CRS will select 1 KHz or 10 Hz/step and MENU:VFO
CTS will select 100/200/400 steps per revolution of the encoder.

Finally MENU:VFO OFS will allow the RIT control to move the VFO by
the COARSE setting when RIT is OFF.

The K3/K3S is already far more flexible and user friendly than any
variable speed VFO implementation (one reason I have rejected the
Yaesu FTdx101!).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2019-07-20 1:48 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Kev and all,

No vote on that dynamic VFO tuning for me.  It would only be suitable 
for me if I could turn it off.
I have used a couple transceivers that had that type of tuning and it 
drove me nuts.


73,
Don W3FPR 


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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

I agree with Don.  The K3/K3S already supports three tuning rates
depending on the operation of the Fine/Coarse control (HOLD/Coarse =
100 Hz/step, Fine = 10 Hz/step, Double tap Fine = 1 Hz/step).  In
addition, MENU:VFO CRS will select 1 KHz or 10 Hz/step and MENU:VFO
CTS will select 100/200/400 steps per revolution of the encoder.

Finally MENU:VFO OFS will allow the RIT control to move the VFO by
the COARSE setting when RIT is OFF.

The K3/K3S is already far more flexible and user friendly than any
variable speed VFO implementation (one reason I have rejected the
Yaesu FTdx101!).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2019-07-20 1:48 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Kev and all,

No vote on that dynamic VFO tuning for me.  It would only be suitable 
for me if I could turn it off.
I have used a couple transceivers that had that type of tuning and it 
drove me nuts.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2019 1:38 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:

Consider one of the settings for your computer mouse is shifting
resolution. This allows you to move the mouse real fast to get from 
one end

of three monitors to the other. And then, when you slow down, the mouse
goes into micro-resolution mode and you can be very precise in your
movements. This may be a Logitech feature.

I was thinking the same concept could be used for the VFO. I'm familiar
with the Fine/Course and RATE buttons but I was thinking (danger Will
Robinson) that it would be nice to quickly shift to the next RTTY signal
and then automatically switch to the FINE selection based on how fast you
turn the VFO.

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Don Wilhelm]

Kev and all,

No vote on that dynamic VFO tuning for me.  It would only be suitable 
for me if I could turn it off.
I have used a couple transceivers that had that type of tuning and it 
drove me nuts.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2019 1:38 PM, Kevin, N4TT wrote:

Consider one of the settings for your computer mouse is shifting
resolution. This allows you to move the mouse real fast to get from one end
of three monitors to the other. And then, when you slow down, the mouse
goes into micro-resolution mode and you can be very precise in your
movements. This may be a Logitech feature.

I was thinking the same concept could be used for the VFO. I'm familiar
with the Fine/Course and RATE buttons but I was thinking (danger Will
Robinson) that it would be nice to quickly shift to the next RTTY signal
and then automatically switch to the FINE selection based on how fast you
turn the VFO.

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

[Mark Musick]

If I remember correctly, my Yaesu FT-1000MP did this.
The faster you turned the VFO knob the higher the incremental change in the VFO 
frequency.

Mark, WB9CIF

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Kevin, N4TT
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2019 17:38
To: Elecraft Reflector Reflector 
Subject: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Shifting VFO

Consider one of the settings for your computer mouse is shifting resolution. 
This allows you to move the mouse real fast to get from one end of three 
monitors to the other. And then, when you slow down, the mouse goes into 
micro-resolution mode and you can be very precise in your movements. This may 
be a Logitech feature.

I was thinking the same concept could be used for the VFO. I'm familiar with 
the Fine/Course and RATE buttons but I was thinking (danger Will
Robinson) that it would be nice to quickly shift to the next RTTY signal and 
then automatically switch to the FINE selection based on how fast you turn the 
VFO.

Just a though.

73,
Kev N4TT
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request

[Mike K2MK]

Hi Dave,

Yes this is the place and that's a great idea. It's called ballistic tuning.
I think it ultimately became the feature that makes the RIT dial a rapid
tuning dial. Check out the 2009 e-mail from Wayne that I pasted below. Maybe
Wayne will update his earlier comment.

73,
Mike K2MK


On May 26, 2009 Wayne wrote:

-This is referred to as "ballistic" tuning. We experimented with it but
-rejected it when we did the K2 design. I haven't tried it on the K3
-yet, but I've added it to my list.
-
-73,
-Wayne
-N6KR 




Dave Kelley wrote
> Greetings!
> 
> I hope this is the place to suggest new features.
> 
> I’d love to see a variable ‘course’ tuning of the VFO based on the speed
> it is tuned.  For example, if I’m in the CW band and want to move to SSB
> I’d like to simply tune quicker than usual and have the VFO switch to
> course tuning until I slow back down or stop.  The Course/Fine button
> would still be used for manual override and default setting.  It would
> save the time of pressing and holding the ‘course’ button, tuning, and
> then tapping that button again to go back to normal tune.
> 
> ICOM and a few other radio makers have had this feature for a long time. 
> And honestly, it’s the ONLY feature I miss on my KX3 and K3S.
> 
> Thanks and 72/73
> 
> Dave
> AI7R





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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: Per antenna ATU mode memorization

[Nr4c]

Check the utilities for the various ATUs as I think some have this feature. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Apr 22, 2017, at 11:28 PM, David Orman  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Would it be possible on the KXPA100/KX3 combo (and K3*) to allow the ATU
> mode to be memorized per antenna? I have a small transmitting loop that is
> remotely tuned on ANT1 so wish to run with the ATU in bypass, but ANT2 is a
> EFHW which I like to have the tuner active (manual mode) for. I am wary
> I'll bump tune while I'm on ANT1 even after clearing match memory, thus not
> alerting me to a bad STL tuning solution, so having it in bypass makes a
> lot more sense, but I do sometimes flip to ANT2 to quickly see if signal is
> better and don't like having to re-enable the ATU.
> 
> Thank you,
> David Orman / K5DJO
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request

[Mike Harris]

Noted, thanks.

Mike VP8NO

On 08/04/2017 15:12, Richard Lamont wrote:

On 08/04/17 18:58, Mike Harris wrote:

I'm losing track here. Am I correct in understanding:

1. SSB Sidetone required when wearing headphones.

2. SSB Sidetone not required when headphones are unplugged and listening
to speaker.

3. SSB Sidetone automatically zeroed upon unplugging headphones.

4. Headphones are just that, not a headset with mic, and are plugged
into the front panel socket otherwise plugging and unplugging would be
inconvenient.


Yes.

73,
Richard G4DYA

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request

[Richard Lamont]

On 08/04/17 18:58, Mike Harris wrote:
> I'm losing track here. Am I correct in understanding:
> 
> 1. SSB Sidetone required when wearing headphones.
> 
> 2. SSB Sidetone not required when headphones are unplugged and listening
> to speaker.
> 
> 3. SSB Sidetone automatically zeroed upon unplugging headphones.
> 
> 4. Headphones are just that, not a headset with mic, and are plugged
> into the front panel socket otherwise plugging and unplugging would be
> inconvenient.

Yes.

73,
Richard G4DYA
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[donovanf]

Hi Bob, 


The Win-Test PTTOff script corrects the unwanted K3 PTT VOX delay! 


Hopefully Elecraft will eventually eliminate the unwanted PTT VOX delay too. 


Thanks 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 



- Original Message -

From: "Bob Wilson [via Elecraft]"  
To: "donovanf"  
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 10:12:16 AM 
Subject: Re: Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior 





donovanf wrote 
Hi Richard, The K3 and external K1EL Winkeyer is a great combination, it 
corrects most of the deficiencies of the internal K3 keyer and PTT VOX delay. 
Hopefully the next next upgrade of the K3 internal keyer will at least make it 
better, if not perfect! The biggest faults are: - VOX delay added to the tail 
of the PTT signal when in VOX mode - inability to use the internal keyer in CW 
PTT mode, it always reverts to QSK 

Hi Frank, 
I haven't followed this entire thread, but I believe there is no need for any 
firmware changes, or a WinKey, to solve this problem. 
The problem of unwanted PTT delay when using the internal keyer with VOX, and 
computer-generated CW/PTT, was already addressed by the improvements to the RX; 
command in K3 firmware 5.46 and later. Sending an RX; command at the end of all 
computer-generated CW messages will immediately open the PTT line no matter how 
long you set the VOX delay, so there will be no delay in receiving when the 
computer-generated message terminates. You will still get the programmed CW VOX 
delay when hand-sending, and the PTT will be held closed for the duration of 
all computer-generated messages, if you follow all of the steps outlined below. 
This is easy to do in Win-Test, which is the contest software I think you are 
using. Other contest loggers have similar features. 
This works best connecting paddles directly to the internal keyer of the K3 and 
avoiding the WinKey entirely. 
First set CONFIG:RTS-DTR PTT-KEY 
Disconnect the WinKey and disable its serial port. 
Tell Win-Test to key CW on the K3 serial port DTR pin, and PTT on the RTS pin 
(under Options | Interface configuration ). Win-Test sends great CW using 
either real serial ports or FTDI USB-to-Serial adapters. Or you may use legacy 
LPT port CW/PTT keying circuits if you prefer (set CONFIG:PTT-KEY OFF-OFF when 
using LPT keying). 
Download K3scripts.zip from my Win-Test LUA script web site, 
https://bit.ly/wtscripts . This contains many useful K3 scripts, including 
PTTOff.wts , which does the following: 
wtRadio:Send("RX;")
return -1 
At the end of every CW message programmed in Win-Test, call this script, like 
this: 
CQ $MYCALL $MYCALL~#PTTOFF
$LOGGEDCALL $RST $STATE~#PTTOFF
TU $MYCALL~$CR~#PTTOFF
$MYCALL~#PTTOFF etc. 
In Win-Test, the "~" character is a macro separator, like a blank, but it sends 
no "space" characters. The macro won't run until the final bit of CW is output. 
Now you may put the K3 in semi-breakin mode, with VOX ON, and set the CW VOX 
delay to whatever works well with your paddling speed (0.21 works pretty well 
at contest speeds). This CW VOX delay will be overridden at the end of all 
computer-generated CW messages (except for Alt-K keyboard CW, but I think 
that's an acceptable exception). 
As a final step, make the Escape key halt any CW in progress and immediately 
open the PTT line too. To do this, assign the following script (name it 
PlayHalt2.wts ), to the Escape key, using the Win-Test Scripts Manager. 
-- If Escape key already halted CW, and we were called back
if wtApp:IsPostKeyProcess() then
   wtRadio:Send("RX;") -- Send "Receive" command to K3 to open 
PTT line
   return -1   -- No further keystroke processing
else   -- Else, first time through
   return 1-- Request normal keystroke processing 
of Escape key, with
   -- callback requested.
end 
Please let me know if this solves all the problems you care about regarding 
unwanted PTT hang delay, Win-Test, and the K3. 
73, 
Bob, N6TV 




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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[Bob Wilson]

donovanf wrote
> Hi Richard, The K3 and external K1EL Winkeyer is a great combination, it
> corrects most of the deficiencies of the internal K3 keyer and PTT VOX
> delay. Hopefully the next next upgrade of the K3 internal keyer will at
> least make it better, if not perfect! The biggest faults are: - VOX delay
> added to the tail of the PTT signal when in VOX mode - inability to use
> the internal keyer in CW PTT mode, it always reverts to QSK 

Hi Frank,
I haven't followed this entire thread, but I believe there is no need for
any firmware changes, or a WinKey, to solve this problem.
The problem of unwanted PTT delay when using the internal keyer with VOX,
and computer-generated CW/PTT, was already addressed by the improvements to
the *RX;* command in K3 firmware 5.46 and later.  Sending an *RX;* command
at the end of all computer-generated CW messages will /immediately/ open the
PTT line no matter how long you set the VOX delay, so there will be no delay
in receiving when the computer-generated message terminates.   You will
still get the programmed CW VOX delay when hand-sending, and the PTT will be
held closed for the duration of all computer-generated messages, /if/ you
follow all of the steps outlined below.
This is easy to do in Win-Test, which is the contest software I think you
are using.  Other contest loggers have similar features.
This works best connecting paddles directly to the internal keyer of the K3
and avoiding the WinKey entirely.
First set *CONFIG:RTS-DTR PTT-KEY*
Disconnect the WinKey and disable its serial port.
Tell Win-Test to key CW on the K3 serial port DTR pin, and PTT on the RTS
pin (under *Options | Interface configuration*).  Win-Test sends great CW
using either real serial ports or FTDI USB-to-Serial adapters.  Or you may
use legacy LPT port CW/PTT keying circuits if you prefer (set CONFIG:PTT-KEY
OFF-OFF when using LPT keying).
Download *K3scripts.zip* from my Win-Test LUA script web site, 
https://bit.ly/wtscripts   .  This contains many
useful K3 scripts, including *PTTOff.wts*, which does the following:
At the end of /every/ CW message programmed in Win-Test, call this script,
like this:
etc.
In Win-Test, the "~" character is a macro separator, like a blank, but it
sends no "space" characters.  The macro won't run until the final bit of CW
is output.
Now you may put the K3 in semi-breakin mode, with VOX ON, and set the CW VOX
delay to whatever works well with your paddling speed (0.21 works pretty
well at contest speeds).  This CW VOX delay will be /overridden/ at the end
of all computer-generated CW messages (except for Alt-K keyboard CW, but I
think that's an acceptable exception).
As a final step, make the *Escape* key halt any CW in progress /and/
*immediately* open the PTT line too.To do this, assign the following script
(name it *PlayHalt2.wts*), to the *Escape* key, using the Win-Test Scripts
Manager.
Please let me know if this solves all the problems you care about regarding
unwanted PTT hang delay, Win-Test, and the K3.
73,
Bob, N6TV



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[Gerald Manthey]

If it were only a chip change to add a winkeyer 3 inside my K3 I would do it in 
a heart beat.  


> On Feb 16, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Kevin  wrote:
> 
> Using the Winkey is not a requirement. It's just a much better keyer than the 
> Elecraft keyer.
> One chip and some extraneous parts...problem gone.
> 
> 
>> On 2/14/2017 9:53 AM, Chester Alderman wrote:
>> First, I admit to not understanding the problem! I do run QSK and VOX during
>> contest and during regular QRQ QSO's. With my K3/Alpha 9500 setup, I can run
>> full QSK CW up to 100 wpm and I have no PTT delay issues? I do not run with
>> PTT asserted and therefore I do not witness the issues other contesters
>> have.. As for N1MM's "poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic", I certainly
>> have to disagree with that comment. During 'normal' contest I operate from
>> 28 to 40 wpm, full QSK and would go nuts if there were any perturbations
>> with my K3's keying.
>> 
>> A so called 'solution' to CW stuttering is to purchase and use the K1EL
>> keyer. The real problem is with Windows op system wherein the CPU is often
>> interrupted to do 'internal chores'; and when this happens, all I/O ports
>> are shut down, which causes the CW stutter. Simply turning off the Windows
>> generated sound, eliminates the stutter issue and the 'requirement' to
>> purchase the K1EL keyer.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Tom - W4BQF
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>> donov...@starpower.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 12:53 AM
>> To: Elecraft Reflector
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT
>> behavior
>> 
>> Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly related
>> to an excellent Elecraft product.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3
>> in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3
>> CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external
>> Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic
>> when the K3 is in CW PTT mode.
>> 
>> 
>> For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode
>> to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the
>> K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted.
>> I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied
>> at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or
>> any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always
>> immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions.
>> 
>> 
>> When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some
>> inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The
>> only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or
>> to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives
>> are unacceptable.
>> 
>> 
>> The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results
>> is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external
>> K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT
>> signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT
>> logic.
>> 
>> 
>> Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to
>> generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3
>> internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode?
>> 
>> 
>> 73
>> Frank
>> W3LPL
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> 
> -- 
> R. Kevin Stover
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> ARRL
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[Kevin]

Using the Winkey is not a requirement. It's just a much better keyer 
than the Elecraft keyer.

One chip and some extraneous parts...problem gone.


On 2/14/2017 9:53 AM, Chester Alderman wrote:

First, I admit to not understanding the problem! I do run QSK and VOX during
contest and during regular QRQ QSO's. With my K3/Alpha 9500 setup, I can run
full QSK CW up to 100 wpm and I have no PTT delay issues? I do not run with
PTT asserted and therefore I do not witness the issues other contesters
have.. As for N1MM's "poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic", I certainly
have to disagree with that comment. During 'normal' contest I operate from
28 to 40 wpm, full QSK and would go nuts if there were any perturbations
with my K3's keying.

A so called 'solution' to CW stuttering is to purchase and use the K1EL
keyer. The real problem is with Windows op system wherein the CPU is often
interrupted to do 'internal chores'; and when this happens, all I/O ports
are shut down, which causes the CW stutter. Simply turning off the Windows
generated sound, eliminates the stutter issue and the 'requirement' to
purchase the K1EL keyer.

73,
Tom - W4BQF



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
donov...@starpower.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 12:53 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT
behavior

Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly related
to an excellent Elecraft product.



For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3
in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3
CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external
Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic
when the K3 is in CW PTT mode.


For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode
to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the
K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted.
I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied
at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or
any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always
immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions.


When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some
inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The
only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or
to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives
are unacceptable.


The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results
is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external
K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT
signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT
logic.


Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to
generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3
internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode?


73
Frank
W3LPL
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SKCC #215
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[donovanf]

Hi Fred, 


You can easily replicate the unwanted PTT delay as follows: 


- Set the K3 to CW mode, 
- Turn VOX on . 
- Set the VOX delay to a fairly large delay so its to observe. 
- Key the PTT line 
- You will observe the unwanted VOX delay after you unkey the PTT line 


You can easily replicate the unwanted K3 internal keyer behavior as follows: 


- Set the K3 to CW mode 
- Turn VOX off 
- Plug a paddle into the K3 
- Operate the paddle. 
- The K3 will switch from transmit to receive and the external amplifier 
key output will deactivate after each Morse element, just like it does in QSK 
mode 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 







- Original Message -

From: "Fred Jensen"  
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 7:07:25 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
behavior 

This is getting harder to understand than organic chemistry was. See 
interspersed questions and results of trying to duplicate. Somehow, 
keying an external amp has come into this, the issue I've been trying to 
duplicate for you was excessive delay in going back to receive. 

On 2/14/2017 10:22 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: 
> Hi Fred, 
> 
> CW PTT is the K3 CW operating mode when VOX is off and 
> QSK is disabled. 
With VOX and QSK off, I can step on the footswitch [or plug the Winkey 
PTT output into the K3 PTT jack] and transmit. When done, either 
reverts to RX essentially instantly. The Winkey may hang just a tiny 
bit, very hard to tell. I will fire up the WK3 Tools program and see if 
there's a delay programmed in. 
> 
> Two distinct categories of messages are sent during CW contests: 
> 
> -- prerecorded messages (CQ, exchange and end of QSO messages) 
> They're usually stored in an external computer so that they can 
> be instantly started and prematurely stopped by the contest 
> logging program if necessary. 
> 
> -- real time operator originated messages, keyboard or paddle sent 
Yes, I operate a lot of CW contests and events, both manually with 
pencil/paper logging [just to add some interest to what otherwise 
becomes mechanical], and with N1MM+ [when I care about a score]. I'm 
somewhat familiar with the protocol. 
> 
> If CW PTT is selected by the operator, unfortunately the K3 
> actually sends the message in QSK mode. If the operator selects 
> CW VOX mode, a very short VOX delay will result in VOX 
> dropouts between every character and word. If the operator 
> increases the VOX delay to at least 250 milliseconds to avoid 
> inter-character and inter-word dropouts, the 100 millisecond 
> transmit-receive switchover for real time messages cannot be 
> achieved because unfortunately the K3 adds a VOX delay to 
> the end of the computer generated PTT when the K3 is in VOX 
> mode. 
I can't make this happen on my K3. VOX off/QSK off, the K3 reverts to 
receive as soon as I release PTT. I use the footswitch on SSB and I've 
used the CW+SSB option occasionally. Works exactly as advertised. 
> 
> A very effective solution is to use an external K1EL Winkeyer 
> and not use the internal K3 keyer because of its unacceptable 
> behavior for contest operation. 
Hmmm ... "unacceptable behavior for contest operation?" There are 
several thousand K3's out there, many in contests, and a number of 
DXpeditions have used them. That's a fairly broad assertion considering 
how common they are and how long the K3 has been around. 
> 
> Perhaps the most desirable solution is to correct the shortcomings 
> of the current K3 internal keyer and eliminate the unwanted 
> VOX PTT delay so that K3 behavior is similar to the Winkeyer. 
When keying the K3 using RTS/DTR from N1MM+, Windows will very 
occasionally lapse into 90 WPM Klingon, almost always at exactly the 
worst time, of course. That's why I went to the WinkeyUSB. I'm 
left-handed but I normally send right. However I have a second paddle on 
the internal K3 keyer on the left and I switch often in a contest 
depending on which hand is free. They seem to work exactly the same for me. 

I thought I might be able to help but that does not seem to be the case 
here. I'll defer to others who understand what's going on better than I do. 

73, 

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW 
Sparks NV DM09dn 
Washoe County 
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[Fred Jensen]

This is getting harder to understand than organic chemistry was.   See 
interspersed questions and results of trying to duplicate. Somehow, 
keying an external amp has come into this, the issue I've been trying to 
duplicate for you was excessive delay in going back to receive.


On 2/14/2017 10:22 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Hi Fred,

CW PTT is the K3 CW operating mode when VOX is off and
QSK is disabled.
With VOX and QSK off, I can step on the footswitch [or plug the Winkey 
PTT output into the K3 PTT jack] and transmit.  When done, either 
reverts to RX essentially instantly.  The Winkey may hang just a tiny 
bit, very hard to tell.  I will fire up the WK3 Tools program and see if 
there's a delay programmed in.


Two distinct categories of messages are sent during CW contests:

-- prerecorded messages (CQ, exchange and end of QSO messages)
They're usually stored in an external computer so that they can
be instantly started and prematurely stopped by the contest
logging program if necessary.

-- real time operator originated messages, keyboard or paddle sent
Yes, I operate a lot of CW contests and events, both manually with 
pencil/paper logging [just to add some interest to what otherwise 
becomes mechanical], and with N1MM+ [when I care about a score].  I'm 
somewhat familiar with the protocol.


If CW PTT is selected by the operator, unfortunately the K3
actually sends the message in QSK mode. If the operator selects
CW VOX mode, a very short VOX delay will result in VOX
dropouts between every character and word. If the operator
increases the VOX delay to at least 250 milliseconds to avoid
inter-character and inter-word dropouts, the 100 millisecond
transmit-receive switchover for real time messages cannot be
achieved because unfortunately the K3 adds a VOX delay to
the end of the computer generated PTT when the K3 is in VOX
mode.
I can't make this happen on my K3.  VOX off/QSK off, the K3 reverts to 
receive as soon as I release PTT. I use the footswitch on SSB and I've 
used the CW+SSB option occasionally.  Works exactly as advertised.


A very effective solution is to use an external K1EL Winkeyer
and not use the internal K3 keyer because of  its unacceptable
behavior for contest operation.
Hmmm ... "unacceptable behavior for contest operation?"  There are 
several thousand K3's out there, many in contests, and a number of 
DXpeditions have used them.  That's a fairly broad assertion considering 
how common they are and how long the K3 has been around.


Perhaps the most desirable solution is to correct the shortcomings
of the current K3 internal keyer and eliminate the unwanted
VOX PTT delay so that K3 behavior is similar to the Winkeyer.
When keying the K3 using RTS/DTR from N1MM+, Windows will very 
occasionally lapse into 90 WPM Klingon, almost always at exactly the 
worst time, of course.  That's why I went to the WinkeyUSB.  I'm 
left-handed but I normally send right. However I have a second paddle on 
the internal K3 keyer on the left and I switch often in a contest 
depending on which hand is free.  They seem to work exactly the same for me.


I thought I might be able to help but that does not seem to be the case 
here.  I'll defer to others who understand what's going on better than I do.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[donovanf]

Hi Richard, 


The K3 and external K1EL Winkeyer is a great combination, it corrects 
most of the deficiencies of the internal K3 keyer and PTT VOX delay. 


Hopefully the next next upgrade of the K3 internal keyer will at least 
make it better, if not perfect! The biggest faults are: 
- VOX delay added to the tail of the PTT signal when in VOX mode 
- inability to use the internal keyer in CW PTT mode, it always reverts to QSK 


Thanks for your wise observations! 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Richard Ferch"  
To: donov...@starpower.net 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:30:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
behavior 


Frank, 


In a nutshell, what you would like is PTT control when the CW comes from the 
computer (via the straight key jack), and VOX when the paddles are used (via 
the paddle jack). 


OK - but it may not be quite as simple as it seems. Not that it cannot be done, 
but it might not be quite so easy to program and debug. 


First off, some users might want VOX from both inputs (in particular, someone 
using QSK probably would). So, this looks like a new configuration option - VOX 
from the paddle input only, but not from the straight key input, vs. the 
standard option with VOX enabled on both inputs. OK so far. 


Suppose you are using the paddle and want to continue directly with a computer 
message. If you hit the function key before the VOX has dropped, the computer 
will assert PTT and the rig will stay in the transmit state, but you will want 
the VOX delay to be disabled for the duration of the computer message, i.e. the 
firmware has to remember not to impose the VOX delay, whereas it would have 
done so if you had not hit the function key. The state machine is getting a bit 
more complicated. 



Now, what happens if the operator wants to interrupt a computer message by 
touching the paddle? Using a Winkey, touching the paddle aborts the 
computer-generated CW. If you want to be able to do this, then touching the 
paddle will have to turn the VOX delay on and temporarily disable the straight 
key CW input. Meanwhile, the computer has no way of knowing what has happened, 
so it has not dropped PTT. If the paddle input plus VOX delay ends before the 
original PC message is finished, the computer will still be asserting PTT and 
toggling the CW line. You will want the rig to continue to ignore the straight 
key input until the computer releases PTT - but in the meanwhile, do you also 
want the rig to be ignoring the hardware PTT from the computer and switching 
back to receive, even while the computer is still "transmitting"? This could 
get messy. Maybe the easier choice would be not to allow paddle input to 
interrupt the computer keying, so you have to hit the Esc key before usin
 g the paddle. Simpler to implement, but not nearly as convenient as using a 
Winkey. 


Add to this the fact that the interaction between CW and PTT in the K3 has 
always been somewhat problematic (witness the CW problems when the TX Delay 
setting is changed from the default 8 ms); throw in the fact that somehow this 
has to work even when computer PTT is done via software commands rather than a 
hardware signal (this has historically been a significant problem area for the 
K3 that was addressed in F/W revision 5.46 after significant testing effort); 
and maybe programming and debugging this might just turn out to be harder than 
it looks. 


Maybe the easiest solution is just to use a Winkey after all! 


73, 
Rich VE3KI 




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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[donovanf]

Hi Vic, 


Yes, if you place your K3 in CW mode with VOX off and QSK off, 
the amplifier key output turns on and off during every Morse element. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Vic Rosenthal"  
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net, donov...@starpower.net 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 6:12:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
behavior 

In other words, you are saying that the AMP KEY output follows keying and not 
PTT? 

W3LPL wrote: The problem is that if 
you use the internal K3 keyer in CW PTT mode, the radio actually 
transmits in QSK mode risking damage to slow amplifier relays. 
-- 
Vic 4X6GP 

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[donovanf]

Hi Fred, 


CW PTT is the K3 CW operating mode when VOX is off and 
QSK is disabled. 



Two distinct categories of messages are sent during CW contests: 


-- prerecorded messages (CQ, exchange and end of QSO messages) 
They're usually stored in an external computer so that they can 
be instantly started and prematurely stopped by the contest 
logging program if necessary. 


-- real time operator originated messages, keyboard or paddle sent 


For pre-recorded messages its important that the transceiver 
switch from transmit to receive in less than the timing for 
one Morse inter-character space (three Morse elements). At 
35 WPM an inter-character space is approximately 100 milliseconds. 


Transmit-to-receive switchover longer than 100 milliseconds will 
frequently result in the receiver not being active when the other 
station is sending the first Morse element of his callsign, 
resulting in a mis-copied callsign or a request for a repeat. 


In order for a K3 to meet the 100 millisecond transmit-receive 
switchover requirement for pre-recorded messages, the K3 can be 
operated in QSK mode, CW PTT mode, or CW VOX mode with 
front panel VOX delay set to near zero. 


For real time operator sent messages (e.g., requests for repeats 
or brief text messages) the transmit-to-receive changeover timing 
isn't as critical and a 200 millisecond VOX delay is usually acceptable. 


Many contest operators prefer to use a paddle to send real time 
messages, some use a computer keyboard. If the internal keyer 
in the K3 is used to send real time messages, only QSK can be 
used with the current K3 implementation of its internal keyer. 


If CW PTT is selected by the operator, unfortunately the K3 
actually sends the message in QSK mode. If the operator selects 
CW VOX mode, a very short VOX delay will result in VOX 
dropouts between every character and word. If the operator 
increases the VOX delay to at least 250 milliseconds to avoid 
inter-character and inter-word dropouts, the 100 millisecond 
transmit-receive switchover for real time messages cannot be 
achieved because unfortunately the K3 adds a VOX delay to 
the end of the computer generated PTT when the K3 is in VOX 
mode. 


One solution is to operate the K3 only in QSK mode, but many 
operators prefer not to use QSK. 


A very effective solution is to use an external K1EL Winkeyer 
and not use the internal K3 keyer because of its unacceptable 
behavior for contest operation. 


Perhaps the most desirable solution is to correct the shortcomings 
of the current K3 internal keyer and eliminate the unwanted 
VOX PTT delay so that K3 behavior is similar to the Winkeyer. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 


- Original Message -

From: "Fred Jensen"  
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 2:42:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
behavior 

Hmmm ... explain what "CW PTT" mode means, that may be the cause of my 
lack of understanding. With VOX enabled, QSK off, and using the 
internal keyer, my K3 reverts to receive on the delay time I have set 
for CW. I tried it with a minimum delay [whatever 0.00 sets] and it 
drops immediately, between letters and sometimes even between code 
elements if I get a bit sloppy with the paddle. 

Obviously, I'm doing this different than you are. 

73, 

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW 
Sparks NV DM09dn 
Washoe County 

On 2/14/2017 5:19 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: 
> Hi Fred, 
> 
> I never operate QSK, my amp relays aren't fast enough and they 
> make too much noise. Like many K3 users, I always use either 
> CW VOX or CW PTT. 
> 
> The K3 works fine in CW VOX mode, except for the odd behavior 
> that after PTT is released the VOX delay continues to keep the 
> transmitter active until the delay set by the Delay pot times out. 
> 
> Its a different story in CW PTT mode (not QSK). PTT is very 
> responsive (the transmitter always releases immediately after PTT 
> is released regardless of delay pot setting). The problem is that if 
> you use the internal K3 keyer in CW PTT mode, the radio actually 
> transmits in QSK mode risking damage to slow amplifier relays. 
> 
> Like many K3 users, I solved the internal keyer problem by using a 
> K1EL Winkeyer connected to the K3 Key and PTT inputs. That 
> solution works exactly the way the K3 should work if the logic for 
> the K3 internal keyer worked as it should. 
> 
> 73 
> Frank 
> W3LPL 
> 
> 
> 
> -------- 
> *From: *"Fred Jensen"  
> *To: *elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 12:33:09 AM 
> *Subject: *Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and 
> CW PTT behavior 
> 
> I'm really confused now [a not uncommon state for me]. I have "mature&q

Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[Vic Rosenthal]

In other words, you are saying that the AMP KEY output follows keying and not 
PTT?

W3LPL wrote: The problem is that if 
you use the internal K3 keyer in CW PTT mode, the radio actually 
transmits in QSK mode risking damage to slow amplifier relays. 
-- 
Vic 4X6GP
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[Fred Jensen]

Hmmm ... explain what "CW PTT" mode means, that may be the cause of my 
lack of understanding.  With VOX enabled, QSK off, and using the 
internal keyer, my K3 reverts to receive on the delay time I have set 
for CW.  I tried it with a minimum delay [whatever 0.00 sets] and it 
drops immediately, between letters and sometimes even between code 
elements if I get a bit sloppy with the paddle.


Obviously, I'm doing this different than you are.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 2/14/2017 5:19 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Hi Fred,

I never operate QSK,  my amp relays aren't fast enough and they
make too much noise.  Like many K3 users, I always use either
CW VOX or CW PTT.

The K3 works fine in CW VOX mode, except for the odd behavior
that after PTT is released the VOX delay continues to keep the
transmitter active until the delay set by the Delay pot times out.

Its a different story in CW PTT mode (not QSK).   PTT is very
responsive (the transmitter always releases immediately after PTT
is released regardless of delay pot setting).   The problem is that if
you use the internal K3 keyer in CW PTT mode, the radio actually
transmits in QSK mode risking damage to slow amplifier relays.

Like many K3 users, I solved the internal keyer problem by using a
K1EL Winkeyer connected to the K3  Key and PTT inputs.  That
solution works exactly the way the K3 should work if the logic for
the K3 internal keyer worked as it should.

73
Frank
W3LPL




*From: *"Fred Jensen" 
*To: *elecraft@mailman.qth.net
*Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 12:33:09 AM
*Subject: *Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and 
CW PTT behavior


I'm really confused now [a not uncommon state for me].  I have "mature"
K3 S/N 642.  The VOX delay is adjustable by holding the SPEED/MIC knob.
There is a separate delay for CW and SSB.  I normally run QSK, but I
just tried semi-breakin now and the two modes have two different
adjustable delays.  I use a Winkey-3.  I used to use the internal K3
keyer, and I don't remember any problems then either.  Before I got the
KPA500, my amp wouldn't do full QSK so I ran semi-breakin all the time.

The subject of the original email doesn't note the Elecraft product, if
it's not a K3 [or K3S I guess] disregard this.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 2/14/2017 3:57 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
> Hi Wayne,
>
>
> I made an error in my original email. PTT releases immediately
> in CW PTT mode regardless of VOX delay.
>
>
> Its only in VOX mode that PTT release is delayed by VOX delay,
> which makes no logical sense to me.
>
>
> tks
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Wayne Burdick" 
> To: donov...@starpower.net
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 6:04:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and 
CW PTT behavior

>
> Is a workaround to simply set the QSK delay to 0 in CW mode even 
when using PTT?

>
>
> On Feb 14, 2017, at 7:39 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
>
>> Hi Brian,
>>
>>
>> The PTT problem I described is that the K3 adds a long delay (the
>> VOX delay, much longer than 5-10 milliseconds) after the external
>> PTT is dropped. I can't explain any rationale for adding VOX delay
>> after PTT is dropped except for a firmware design error. VOX
>> delay is applied to PTT in every operating mode, even in SSB
>> VOX mode.
>>
>>
>> Fortunately VOX delay is not applied when using computer keying
>> via the USB port.
>>
>>
>> 73
>> Frank
>> W3LPL
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>>
>> From: "briancom" 
>> To: donov...@starpower.net
>> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:21:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer 
and CW PTT behavior

>>
>> Frank,
>> Pardon my ignorance on this issue if the below is off target.
>> The asynchronous nature of an external ptt appears to be a problem.
>> Suppose the K3 is in the middle of a long 100 watt dash and the 
external ptt signal is dropped. It clearly takes some time for the RF 
tail to drop to zero. One would seem to need to add some delay time 
for this to happen. To avoid clicks one wants a shaped tail. I dont 
see how the K3 can immediately go to RX.
>> How fast a turn off and go to RX action do you want? Is the normal 
5 ms tail fast enough?

>>
>> Of course if Winkey logic is programmed within the K3 the 
asynchronous problem goes away.

>&

Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[K9ZTV]

The solution for operating full QSK with a non-QSK amp is the QSK-2500 
(http://qsk2500.myfreesites.net/).

See QST Product Review in September 2016 issue.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV



> On Feb 14, 2017, at 7:19 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
> 
> I never operate QSK, my amp relays aren't fast enough and they 
> make too much noise.
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[donovanf]

Hi Fred, 


I never operate QSK, my amp relays aren't fast enough and they 
make too much noise. Like many K3 users, I always use either 
CW VOX or CW PTT. 


The K3 works fine in CW VOX mode, except for the odd behavior 
that after PTT is released the VOX delay continues to keep the 
transmitter active until the delay set by the Delay pot times out. 


Its a different story in CW PTT mode (not QSK). PTT is very 
responsive (the transmitter always releases immediately after PTT 
is released regardless of delay pot setting). The problem is that if 
you use the internal K3 keyer in CW PTT mode, the radio actually 
transmits in QSK mode risking damage to slow amplifier relays. 


Like many K3 users, I solved the internal keyer problem by using a 
K1EL Winkeyer connected to the K3 Key and PTT inputs. That 
solution works exactly the way the K3 should work if the logic for 
the K3 internal keyer worked as it should. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 




- Original Message -

From: "Fred Jensen"  
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 12:33:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
behavior 

I'm really confused now [a not uncommon state for me]. I have "mature" 
K3 S/N 642. The VOX delay is adjustable by holding the SPEED/MIC knob. 
There is a separate delay for CW and SSB. I normally run QSK, but I 
just tried semi-breakin now and the two modes have two different 
adjustable delays. I use a Winkey-3. I used to use the internal K3 
keyer, and I don't remember any problems then either. Before I got the 
KPA500, my amp wouldn't do full QSK so I ran semi-breakin all the time. 

The subject of the original email doesn't note the Elecraft product, if 
it's not a K3 [or K3S I guess] disregard this. 

73, 

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW 
Sparks NV DM09dn 
Washoe County 

On 2/14/2017 3:57 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: 
> Hi Wayne, 
> 
> 
> I made an error in my original email. PTT releases immediately 
> in CW PTT mode regardless of VOX delay. 
> 
> 
> Its only in VOX mode that PTT release is delayed by VOX delay, 
> which makes no logical sense to me. 
> 
> 
> tks 
> 
> 
> 73 
> Frank 
> W3LPL 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> 
> From: "Wayne Burdick"  
> To: donov...@starpower.net 
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector"  
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 6:04:09 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
> behavior 
> 
> Is a workaround to simply set the QSK delay to 0 in CW mode even when using 
> PTT? 
> 
> 
> On Feb 14, 2017, at 7:39 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: 
> 
>> Hi Brian, 
>> 
>> 
>> The PTT problem I described is that the K3 adds a long delay (the 
>> VOX delay, much longer than 5-10 milliseconds) after the external 
>> PTT is dropped. I can't explain any rationale for adding VOX delay 
>> after PTT is dropped except for a firmware design error. VOX 
>> delay is applied to PTT in every operating mode, even in SSB 
>> VOX mode. 
>> 
>> 
>> Fortunately VOX delay is not applied when using computer keying 
>> via the USB port. 
>> 
>> 
>> 73 
>> Frank 
>> W3LPL 
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message - 
>> 
>> From: "briancom"  
>> To: donov...@starpower.net 
>> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector"  
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:21:48 PM 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
>> behavior 
>> 
>> Frank, 
>> Pardon my ignorance on this issue if the below is off target. 
>> The asynchronous nature of an external ptt appears to be a problem. 
>> Suppose the K3 is in the middle of a long 100 watt dash and the external ptt 
>> signal is dropped. It clearly takes some time for the RF tail to drop to 
>> zero. One would seem to need to add some delay time for this to happen. To 
>> avoid clicks one wants a shaped tail. I dont see how the K3 can immediately 
>> go to RX. 
>> How fast a turn off and go to RX action do you want? Is the normal 5 ms tail 
>> fast enough? 
>> 
>> Of course if Winkey logic is programmed within the K3 the asynchronous 
>> problem goes away. 
>> 
>> The adjustable TXDELAY issue where the CW gets QSD with a setting more than 
>> 8 ms is an issue that has existed from day one. People started complaining 
>> about it on day 2. Elecraft has know about it for a long, long time. From 
>> what I am able to glean about the problem is that it may be really difficult 
>> to fix. Apparently the timing has to be fixed in many places in the code to 
>> produce good CW at all values o

Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[Fred Jensen]

I'm really confused now [a not uncommon state for me].  I have "mature" 
K3 S/N 642.  The VOX delay is adjustable by holding the SPEED/MIC knob.  
There is a separate delay for CW and SSB.  I normally run QSK, but I 
just tried semi-breakin now and the two modes have two different 
adjustable delays.  I use a Winkey-3.  I used to use the internal K3 
keyer, and I don't remember any problems then either.  Before I got the 
KPA500, my amp wouldn't do full QSK so I ran semi-breakin all the time.


The subject of the original email doesn't note the Elecraft product, if 
it's not a K3 [or K3S I guess] disregard this.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 2/14/2017 3:57 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Hi Wayne,


I made an error in my original email. PTT releases immediately
in CW PTT mode regardless of VOX delay.


Its only in VOX mode that PTT release is delayed by VOX delay,
which makes no logical sense to me.


tks


73
Frank
W3LPL

- Original Message -

From: "Wayne Burdick" 
To: donov...@starpower.net
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 6:04:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
behavior

Is a workaround to simply set the QSK delay to 0 in CW mode even when using PTT?


On Feb 14, 2017, at 7:39 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:


Hi Brian,


The PTT problem I described is that the K3 adds a long delay (the
VOX delay, much longer than 5-10 milliseconds) after the external
PTT is dropped. I can't explain any rationale for adding VOX delay
after PTT is dropped except for a firmware design error. VOX
delay is applied to PTT in every operating mode, even in SSB
VOX mode.


Fortunately VOX delay is not applied when using computer keying
via the USB port.


73
Frank
W3LPL


- Original Message -

From: "briancom" 
To: donov...@starpower.net
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:21:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
behavior

Frank,
Pardon my ignorance on this issue if the below is off target.
The asynchronous nature of an external ptt appears to be a problem.
Suppose the K3 is in the middle of a long 100 watt dash and the external ptt 
signal is dropped. It clearly takes some time for the RF tail to drop to zero. 
One would seem to need to add some delay time for this to happen. To avoid 
clicks one wants a shaped tail. I dont see how the K3 can immediately go to RX.
How fast a turn off and go to RX action do you want? Is the normal 5 ms tail 
fast enough?

Of course if Winkey logic is programmed within the K3 the asynchronous problem 
goes away.

The adjustable TXDELAY issue where the CW gets QSD with a setting more than 8 
ms is an issue that has existed from day one. People started complaining about 
it on day 2. Elecraft has know about it for a long, long time. From what I am 
able to glean about the problem is that it may be really difficult to fix. 
Apparently the timing has to be fixed in many places in the code to produce 
good CW at all values of TXDELAY. If the fix were a simple one, it would have 
been fixed years ago.
73 de Brian K3KO


On Feb 14, 2017, at 12:52 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly
related to an excellent Elecraft product.



For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3
in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3
CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external
Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic
when the K3 is in CW PTT mode.


For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode
to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the
K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted.
I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied
at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or
any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always
immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions.


When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some
inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The
only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or
to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives
are unacceptable.


The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results
is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external
K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT
signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT
logic.


Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to
generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3
internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode?


73
Frank
W3LPL
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/li

Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[donovanf]

Hi Wayne, 


I made an error in my original email. PTT releases immediately 
in CW PTT mode regardless of VOX delay. 


Its only in VOX mode that PTT release is delayed by VOX delay, 
which makes no logical sense to me. 


tks 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Wayne Burdick"  
To: donov...@starpower.net 
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector"  
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 6:04:09 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
behavior 

Is a workaround to simply set the QSK delay to 0 in CW mode even when using 
PTT? 


On Feb 14, 2017, at 7:39 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: 

> Hi Brian, 
> 
> 
> The PTT problem I described is that the K3 adds a long delay (the 
> VOX delay, much longer than 5-10 milliseconds) after the external 
> PTT is dropped. I can't explain any rationale for adding VOX delay 
> after PTT is dropped except for a firmware design error. VOX 
> delay is applied to PTT in every operating mode, even in SSB 
> VOX mode. 
> 
> 
> Fortunately VOX delay is not applied when using computer keying 
> via the USB port. 
> 
> 
> 73 
> Frank 
> W3LPL 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> 
> From: "briancom"  
> To: donov...@starpower.net 
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector"  
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:21:48 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
> behavior 
> 
> Frank, 
> Pardon my ignorance on this issue if the below is off target. 
> The asynchronous nature of an external ptt appears to be a problem. 
> Suppose the K3 is in the middle of a long 100 watt dash and the external ptt 
> signal is dropped. It clearly takes some time for the RF tail to drop to 
> zero. One would seem to need to add some delay time for this to happen. To 
> avoid clicks one wants a shaped tail. I dont see how the K3 can immediately 
> go to RX. 
> How fast a turn off and go to RX action do you want? Is the normal 5 ms tail 
> fast enough? 
> 
> Of course if Winkey logic is programmed within the K3 the asynchronous 
> problem goes away. 
> 
> The adjustable TXDELAY issue where the CW gets QSD with a setting more than 8 
> ms is an issue that has existed from day one. People started complaining 
> about it on day 2. Elecraft has know about it for a long, long time. From 
> what I am able to glean about the problem is that it may be really difficult 
> to fix. Apparently the timing has to be fixed in many places in the code to 
> produce good CW at all values of TXDELAY. If the fix were a simple one, it 
> would have been fixed years ago. 
> 73 de Brian K3KO 
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2017, at 12:52 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: 
>> 
>> Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly 
>> related to an excellent Elecraft product. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3 
>> in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3 
>> CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external 
>> Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic 
>> when the K3 is in CW PTT mode. 
>> 
>> 
>> For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode 
>> to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the 
>> K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted. 
>> I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied 
>> at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or 
>> any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always 
>> immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions. 
>> 
>> 
>> When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some 
>> inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The 
>> only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or 
>> to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives 
>> are unacceptable. 
>> 
>> 
>> The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results 
>> is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external 
>> K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT 
>> signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT 
>> logic. 
>> 
>> 
>> Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to 
>> generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3 
>> internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode? 
>> 
>> 
>> 73 
>> Frank 
>> W3LPL 
>> __ 
>> Elecraft mailing list 
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/el

Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[donovanf]

Hi Tom, 



The problems I described are unique to the K3's CW PTT mode, 
you wouldn't be aware of them if you use QSK. 


My CW keying is both from Win-Test via the USB port (it works 
perfectly) and into the K3 key and PTT connectors from the K1EL 
Winkeyer (the Winkeyer works perfectly for manual keying from a 
paddle except for the unwanted long VOX delay that the K3 applies 
to the external PTT input). 


When are you coming back to a W3LPL multi-multi DX contest to 
show us how to work hundreds of 80 meter JAs again? :) I'll 
never forget that weekend on 80 meters, its never happened to 
nearly that degree again, and certainly not on both mornings! We're 
still using the same 2 element quad at 170 feet,, but we now have 
a much better receiving antenna, a W8JI/W5ZN 8-circle receiving 
array. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 




- Original Message -

From: "Chester Alderman"  
To: donov...@starpower.net, "Elecraft Reflector"  
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 3:53:30 PM 
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
behavior 

First, I admit to not understanding the problem! I do run QSK and VOX during 
contest and during regular QRQ QSO's. With my K3/Alpha 9500 setup, I can run 
full QSK CW up to 100 wpm and I have no PTT delay issues? I do not run with 
PTT asserted and therefore I do not witness the issues other contesters 
have.. As for N1MM's "poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic", I certainly 
have to disagree with that comment. During 'normal' contest I operate from 
28 to 40 wpm, full QSK and would go nuts if there were any perturbations 
with my K3's keying. 

A so called 'solution' to CW stuttering is to purchase and use the K1EL 
keyer. The real problem is with Windows op system wherein the CPU is often 
interrupted to do 'internal chores'; and when this happens, all I/O ports 
are shut down, which causes the CW stutter. Simply turning off the Windows 
generated sound, eliminates the stutter issue and the 'requirement' to 
purchase the K1EL keyer. 

73, 
Tom - W4BQF 



-Original Message- 
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of 
donov...@starpower.net 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 12:53 AM 
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
behavior 

Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly related 
to an excellent Elecraft product. 



For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3 
in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3 
CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external 
Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic 
when the K3 is in CW PTT mode. 


For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode 
to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the 
K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted. 
I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied 
at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or 
any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always 
immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions. 


When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some 
inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The 
only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or 
to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives 
are unacceptable. 


The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results 
is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external 
K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT 
signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT 
logic. 


Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to 
generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3 
internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode? 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 
__ 
Elecraft mailing list 
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft 
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[Wayne Burdick]

Is a workaround to simply set the QSK delay to 0 in CW mode even when using 
PTT? 


On Feb 14, 2017, at 7:39 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

> Hi Brian, 
> 
> 
> The PTT problem I described is that the K3 adds a long delay (the 
> VOX delay, much longer than 5-10 milliseconds) after the external 
> PTT is dropped. I can't explain any rationale for adding VOX delay 
> after PTT is dropped except for a firmware design error. VOX 
> delay is applied to PTT in every operating mode, even in SSB 
> VOX mode. 
> 
> 
> Fortunately VOX delay is not applied when using computer keying 
> via the USB port. 
> 
> 
> 73 
> Frank 
> W3LPL 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> From: "briancom"  
> To: donov...@starpower.net 
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector"  
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:21:48 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
> behavior 
> 
> Frank, 
> Pardon my ignorance on this issue if the below is off target. 
> The asynchronous nature of an external ptt appears to be a problem. 
> Suppose the K3 is in the middle of a long 100 watt dash and the external ptt 
> signal is dropped. It clearly takes some time for the RF tail to drop to 
> zero. One would seem to need to add some delay time for this to happen. To 
> avoid clicks one wants a shaped tail. I dont see how the K3 can immediately 
> go to RX. 
> How fast a turn off and go to RX action do you want? Is the normal 5 ms tail 
> fast enough? 
> 
> Of course if Winkey logic is programmed within the K3 the asynchronous 
> problem goes away. 
> 
> The adjustable TXDELAY issue where the CW gets QSD with a setting more than 8 
> ms is an issue that has existed from day one. People started complaining 
> about it on day 2. Elecraft has know about it for a long, long time. From 
> what I am able to glean about the problem is that it may be really difficult 
> to fix. Apparently the timing has to be fixed in many places in the code to 
> produce good CW at all values of TXDELAY. If the fix were a simple one, it 
> would have been fixed years ago. 
> 73 de Brian K3KO 
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2017, at 12:52 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: 
>> 
>> Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly 
>> related to an excellent Elecraft product. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3 
>> in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3 
>> CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external 
>> Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic 
>> when the K3 is in CW PTT mode. 
>> 
>> 
>> For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode 
>> to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the 
>> K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted. 
>> I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied 
>> at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or 
>> any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always 
>> immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions. 
>> 
>> 
>> When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some 
>> inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The 
>> only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or 
>> to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives 
>> are unacceptable. 
>> 
>> 
>> The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results 
>> is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external 
>> K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT 
>> signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT 
>> logic. 
>> 
>> 
>> Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to 
>> generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3 
>> internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode? 
>> 
>> 
>> 73 
>> Frank 
>> W3LPL 
>> __ 
>> Elecraft mailing list 
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft 
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>> Message delivered to als...@comcast.net 
> 
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> 

Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[donovanf]

Hi Wayne, 


As Brian pointed out, one of the design issues is that in some 
situations -- foot switch usage comes to mind -- the external PTT 
will be inadvertently un-asserted before the operator stops keying 
or stops speaking in the SSB case. The design must properly 
handle premature external PTT de-assertion. 


I recommend taking a look at the behavior of the K1EL Winkeyer. 
Its user community helped its firmware developer achieve highly 
optimized CW keying and CW PTT behavior. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Wayne Burdick"  
To: donov...@starpower.net 
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector"  
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 3:44:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
behavior 

This is now at the top of our firmware task list. 

Wayne 
N6KR 


On Feb 14, 2017, at 7:39 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: 

> Hi Brian, 
> 
> 
> The PTT problem I described is that the K3 adds a long delay (the 
> VOX delay, much longer than 5-10 milliseconds) after the external 
> PTT is dropped. I can't explain any rationale for adding VOX delay 
> after PTT is dropped except for a firmware design error. VOX 
> delay is applied to PTT in every operating mode, even in SSB 
> VOX mode. 
> 
> 
> Fortunately VOX delay is not applied when using computer keying 
> via the USB port. 
> 
> 
> 73 
> Frank 
> W3LPL 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> 
> From: "briancom"  
> To: donov...@starpower.net 
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector"  
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:21:48 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
> behavior 
> 
> Frank, 
> Pardon my ignorance on this issue if the below is off target. 
> The asynchronous nature of an external ptt appears to be a problem. 
> Suppose the K3 is in the middle of a long 100 watt dash and the external ptt 
> signal is dropped. It clearly takes some time for the RF tail to drop to 
> zero. One would seem to need to add some delay time for this to happen. To 
> avoid clicks one wants a shaped tail. I dont see how the K3 can immediately 
> go to RX. 
> How fast a turn off and go to RX action do you want? Is the normal 5 ms tail 
> fast enough? 
> 
> Of course if Winkey logic is programmed within the K3 the asynchronous 
> problem goes away. 
> 
> The adjustable TXDELAY issue where the CW gets QSD with a setting more than 8 
> ms is an issue that has existed from day one. People started complaining 
> about it on day 2. Elecraft has know about it for a long, long time. From 
> what I am able to glean about the problem is that it may be really difficult 
> to fix. Apparently the timing has to be fixed in many places in the code to 
> produce good CW at all values of TXDELAY. If the fix were a simple one, it 
> would have been fixed years ago. 
> 73 de Brian K3KO 
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2017, at 12:52 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: 
>> 
>> Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly 
>> related to an excellent Elecraft product. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3 
>> in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3 
>> CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external 
>> Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic 
>> when the K3 is in CW PTT mode. 
>> 
>> 
>> For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode 
>> to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the 
>> K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted. 
>> I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied 
>> at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or 
>> any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always 
>> immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions. 
>> 
>> 
>> When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some 
>> inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The 
>> only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or 
>> to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives 
>> are unacceptable. 
>> 
>> 
>> The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results 
>> is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external 
>> K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT 
>> signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT 
>> logic. 
>> 
>> 
>> Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to 
>> generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3 
>> internal keyer wh

Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[Chester Alderman]

First, I admit to not understanding the problem! I do run QSK and VOX during
contest and during regular QRQ QSO's. With my K3/Alpha 9500 setup, I can run
full QSK CW up to 100 wpm and I have no PTT delay issues? I do not run with
PTT asserted and therefore I do not witness the issues other contesters
have.. As for N1MM's "poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic", I certainly
have to disagree with that comment. During 'normal' contest I operate from
28 to 40 wpm, full QSK and would go nuts if there were any perturbations
with my K3's keying. 

A so called 'solution' to CW stuttering is to purchase and use the K1EL
keyer. The real problem is with Windows op system wherein the CPU is often
interrupted to do 'internal chores'; and when this happens, all I/O ports
are shut down, which causes the CW stutter. Simply turning off the Windows
generated sound, eliminates the stutter issue and the 'requirement' to
purchase the K1EL keyer.

73,
Tom - W4BQF



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
donov...@starpower.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 12:53 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT
behavior

Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly related
to an excellent Elecraft product. 



For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3 
in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3 
CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external 
Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic 
when the K3 is in CW PTT mode. 


For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode 
to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the 
K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted. 
I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied 
at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or 
any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always 
immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions. 


When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some 
inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The 
only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or 
to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives 
are unacceptable. 


The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results 
is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external 
K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT 
signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT 
logic. 


Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to 
generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3 
internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode? 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[Wayne Burdick]

This is now at the top of our firmware task list.

Wayne
N6KR


On Feb 14, 2017, at 7:39 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

> Hi Brian, 
> 
> 
> The PTT problem I described is that the K3 adds a long delay (the 
> VOX delay, much longer than 5-10 milliseconds) after the external 
> PTT is dropped. I can't explain any rationale for adding VOX delay 
> after PTT is dropped except for a firmware design error. VOX 
> delay is applied to PTT in every operating mode, even in SSB 
> VOX mode. 
> 
> 
> Fortunately VOX delay is not applied when using computer keying 
> via the USB port. 
> 
> 
> 73 
> Frank 
> W3LPL 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> From: "briancom"  
> To: donov...@starpower.net 
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector"  
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:21:48 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
> behavior 
> 
> Frank, 
> Pardon my ignorance on this issue if the below is off target. 
> The asynchronous nature of an external ptt appears to be a problem. 
> Suppose the K3 is in the middle of a long 100 watt dash and the external ptt 
> signal is dropped. It clearly takes some time for the RF tail to drop to 
> zero. One would seem to need to add some delay time for this to happen. To 
> avoid clicks one wants a shaped tail. I dont see how the K3 can immediately 
> go to RX. 
> How fast a turn off and go to RX action do you want? Is the normal 5 ms tail 
> fast enough? 
> 
> Of course if Winkey logic is programmed within the K3 the asynchronous 
> problem goes away. 
> 
> The adjustable TXDELAY issue where the CW gets QSD with a setting more than 8 
> ms is an issue that has existed from day one. People started complaining 
> about it on day 2. Elecraft has know about it for a long, long time. From 
> what I am able to glean about the problem is that it may be really difficult 
> to fix. Apparently the timing has to be fixed in many places in the code to 
> produce good CW at all values of TXDELAY. If the fix were a simple one, it 
> would have been fixed years ago. 
> 73 de Brian K3KO 
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2017, at 12:52 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: 
>> 
>> Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly 
>> related to an excellent Elecraft product. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3 
>> in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3 
>> CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external 
>> Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic 
>> when the K3 is in CW PTT mode. 
>> 
>> 
>> For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode 
>> to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the 
>> K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted. 
>> I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied 
>> at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or 
>> any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always 
>> immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions. 
>> 
>> 
>> When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some 
>> inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The 
>> only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or 
>> to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives 
>> are unacceptable. 
>> 
>> 
>> The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results 
>> is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external 
>> K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT 
>> signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT 
>> logic. 
>> 
>> 
>> Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to 
>> generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3 
>> internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode? 
>> 
>> 
>> 73 
>> Frank 
>> W3LPL 
>> __ 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[donovanf]

Hi Brian, 


The PTT problem I described is that the K3 adds a long delay (the 
VOX delay, much longer than 5-10 milliseconds) after the external 
PTT is dropped. I can't explain any rationale for adding VOX delay 
after PTT is dropped except for a firmware design error. VOX 
delay is applied to PTT in every operating mode, even in SSB 
VOX mode. 


Fortunately VOX delay is not applied when using computer keying 
via the USB port. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 


- Original Message -

From: "briancom"  
To: donov...@starpower.net 
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector"  
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 2:21:48 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT 
behavior 

Frank, 
Pardon my ignorance on this issue if the below is off target. 
The asynchronous nature of an external ptt appears to be a problem. 
Suppose the K3 is in the middle of a long 100 watt dash and the external ptt 
signal is dropped. It clearly takes some time for the RF tail to drop to zero. 
One would seem to need to add some delay time for this to happen. To avoid 
clicks one wants a shaped tail. I dont see how the K3 can immediately go to RX. 
How fast a turn off and go to RX action do you want? Is the normal 5 ms tail 
fast enough? 

Of course if Winkey logic is programmed within the K3 the asynchronous problem 
goes away. 

The adjustable TXDELAY issue where the CW gets QSD with a setting more than 8 
ms is an issue that has existed from day one. People started complaining about 
it on day 2. Elecraft has know about it for a long, long time. From what I am 
able to glean about the problem is that it may be really difficult to fix. 
Apparently the timing has to be fixed in many places in the code to produce 
good CW at all values of TXDELAY. If the fix were a simple one, it would have 
been fixed years ago. 
73 de Brian K3KO 

> On Feb 14, 2017, at 12:52 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: 
> 
> Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly 
> related to an excellent Elecraft product. 
> 
> 
> 
> For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3 
> in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3 
> CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external 
> Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic 
> when the K3 is in CW PTT mode. 
> 
> 
> For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode 
> to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the 
> K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted. 
> I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied 
> at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or 
> any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always 
> immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions. 
> 
> 
> When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some 
> inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The 
> only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or 
> to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives 
> are unacceptable. 
> 
> 
> The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results 
> is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external 
> K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT 
> signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT 
> logic. 
> 
> 
> Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to 
> generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3 
> internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode? 
> 
> 
> 73 
> Frank 
> W3LPL 
> __ 
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft 
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[briancom]

Frank,
Pardon my ignorance on this issue if the below is off target.
The asynchronous nature of an external ptt appears to be a problem. 
Suppose the K3 is in the middle of a long 100 watt dash and the external ptt 
signal is dropped.  It clearly takes some time for the RF tail to drop to zero. 
 One would seem to need to add some delay time for this to happen.  To avoid 
clicks one wants a shaped tail.  I dont see how the K3 can immediately go to 
RX.  
How fast a turn off and go to RX action do you want?  Is the normal 5 ms tail 
fast enough?

Of course if Winkey logic is programmed within the K3 the asynchronous problem 
goes away. 

The adjustable TXDELAY issue where the CW gets QSD with a setting more than 8 
ms is an issue that has existed from day one.  People started complaining about 
it on day 2.  Elecraft has know about it for a long, long time. From what I am 
able to glean about the problem is that it may be really difficult to fix.  
Apparently the timing has to be fixed in many places in the code to produce 
good CW at all values of TXDELAY.  If the fix were a simple one, it would have 
been fixed years ago.
73 de Brian K3KO

> On Feb 14, 2017, at 12:52 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
> 
> Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly 
> related to an excellent Elecraft product. 
> 
> 
> 
> For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3 
> in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3 
> CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external 
> Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic 
> when the K3 is in CW PTT mode. 
> 
> 
> For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode 
> to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the 
> K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted. 
> I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied 
> at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or 
> any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always 
> immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions. 
> 
> 
> When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some 
> inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The 
> only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or 
> to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives 
> are unacceptable. 
> 
> 
> The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results 
> is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external 
> K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT 
> signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT 
> logic. 
> 
> 
> Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to 
> generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3 
> internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode? 
> 
> 
> 73 
> Frank 
> W3LPL 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP]

If Wayne will be tearing up the code in this area, it might not be hard 
to fix the problem that the internal keyer weighting is much heavier in 
PTT mode than in QSK or semi-QSK VOX.


73,
Vic, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 14 Feb 2017 12:50, Igor Sokolov wrote:

May be Elecraft can also look at the 8 msec PTT delay which cannot be
made longer without distorting CW. Some of the apmplifiers are not that
quick.


73, Igor UA9CDC


14.02.2017 10:52, donov...@starpower.net пишет:

Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly
related to an excellent Elecraft product.



For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3
in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3
CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external
Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic
when the K3 is in CW PTT mode.


For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode
to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the
K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted.
I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied
at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or
any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always
immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions.


When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some
inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The
only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or
to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives
are unacceptable.


The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results
is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external
K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT
signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT
logic.


Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to
generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3
internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode?


73
Frank
W3LPL
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: improved internal keyer and CW PTT behavior

[Igor Sokolov]

May be Elecraft can also look at the 8 msec PTT delay which cannot be 
made longer without distorting CW. Some of the apmplifiers are not that 
quick.



73, Igor UA9CDC


14.02.2017 10:52, donov...@starpower.net пишет:

Okay, lets take Eric's lead and open an interesting thread directly
related to an excellent Elecraft product.



For years many of us have suffered with the odd behavior of the K3
in CW PTT mode. There are at least two inexplicble aspects of K3
CW PTT behavior that have forced many of us to use external
Winkeyers rather than the poorly designed internal K3 keyer logic
when the K3 is in CW PTT mode.


For CW contesters, its necessary to operate the K3 in PTT mode
to avoid unwanted VOX delay. But for some strange reason the
K3 always applies VOX delay after external PTT is unasserted.
I can think of no logical reason why VOX delay should be applied
at the end of the external PTT input when the K3 is PTT mode or
any other mode. When PTT is unasserted, the K3 should always
immediately return to receive mode, no exceptions.


When using the internal K3 keyer when in PTT mode, for some
inexplicable reason the K3 behaves like its in QSK mode. The
only way to avoid this is to use VOX rather than PTT mode or
to use a foot switch when in PTT mode. Both alternatives
are unacceptable.


The band aid solution many contesters use with excellent results
is to avoid using the internal K3 keyer and to use an external
K1EL Winkeyer that generates both a key output and a PTT
signal generated according to well designed Winkeyer CW PTT
logic.


Why can't the K3 implement logic similar to the Winkeyer to
generate the equivalent of "Winkeyer PTT" when using the K3
internal keyer when the K3 is in PTT mode?


73
Frank
W3LPL
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Assert KX3 ACC2 GPIO line on tune

[K22]

I would also be keen to see this feature implemented, with the ability to
invoke TUNE with either High OR Low (selectable). 

I would like to use an LDG Z100-Plus with the KX3, and have the radio
automatically enter TUNE when the Tune button on the Z100-Plus is pressed. I
believe that the Z100-Plus pulls low on Tune?

Without this feature, the user must invoke TUNE on the KX3, THEN activate
the Z100-Plus, THEN turn the carrier off once tuning is complete.

To invoke KX3 TUNE on GPIO Low, and cease KX3 TUNE on GPIO High would solve
this problem. I would be grateful for your thoughts on feasibility and would
be happy to run a beta firmware.

Kind Regards 



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: Mini-banana ground jack for KX3

[Walter Underwood]

Put a BNC grounding lug under the BNC connector and clip to it.

http://www.amphenolrf.com/031-10152-rfx.html 


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On May 19, 2016, at 3:37 PM, Bob N3MNT  wrote:
> 
> I am thinking a simple terminal lug modified with a female mini-bananna plug
> connector that can be secured under one of the four case screws would solve
> this issue. 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Feature-request-Mini-banana-ground-jack-for-KX3-tp7617651p7617652.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: Mini-banana ground jack for KX3

[Bob N3MNT]

I am thinking a simple terminal lug modified with a female mini-bananna plug
connector that can be secured under one of the four case screws would solve
this issue. 



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: ANT2 without ATU for KXPA100

[Rick Robinson]

Sounds like a simple antenna switch is your solution. Esp since you are
using mag loops which do not use a tuner. I just bought a band
decoder($75)from a lady on the group and you would need that and a remote
switch that senses band voltages. Again a lot of investment . BTW your MO
is in the mail.

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, Bruce Nourish  wrote:

> Multiple loops. I could buy a separate switch of course, but the KX3
> integration of the KXPA is sweet.
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 12:12 Phil Wheeler >
> wrote:
>
> > I'm puzzled, Bruce: Why do you need an ANT2 jack
> > at all?
> >
> > Phil W7OX
> >
> > On 4/28/16 11:56 AM, Bruce Nourish wrote:
> > > Hi Elecraft folks,
> > >
> > > I use the ATU on my KX3 all the time with portable antennas, but my
> home
> > > antennas, where I'll be using my KXPA100, are all resonant (mag loops).
> > To
> > > get a second antenna outlet I have to cough up $380 and install the
> > tuner,
> > > which is quite a bit of money for something I mostly won't use. I'd
> > happily
> > > pay $50 or so for a small standalone kit that provided an ANT2 jack,
> and
> > I
> > > suspect I'm not the only one.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Bruce
> > >
> > >
> >
> > __
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> >
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>


-- 
Rick, W8ZT

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: ANT2 without ATU for KXPA100

[Bruce Nourish]

Multiple loops. I could buy a separate switch of course, but the KX3
integration of the KXPA is sweet.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016, 12:12 Phil Wheeler  wrote:

> I'm puzzled, Bruce: Why do you need an ANT2 jack
> at all?
>
> Phil W7OX
>
> On 4/28/16 11:56 AM, Bruce Nourish wrote:
> > Hi Elecraft folks,
> >
> > I use the ATU on my KX3 all the time with portable antennas, but my home
> > antennas, where I'll be using my KXPA100, are all resonant (mag loops).
> To
> > get a second antenna outlet I have to cough up $380 and install the
> tuner,
> > which is quite a bit of money for something I mostly won't use. I'd
> happily
> > pay $50 or so for a small standalone kit that provided an ANT2 jack, and
> I
> > suspect I'm not the only one.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Bruce
> >
> >
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: ANT2 without ATU for KXPA100

[Phil Wheeler]

I'm puzzled, Bruce: Why do you need an ANT2 jack 
at all?


Phil W7OX

On 4/28/16 11:56 AM, Bruce Nourish wrote:

Hi Elecraft folks,

I use the ATU on my KX3 all the time with portable antennas, but my home
antennas, where I'll be using my KXPA100, are all resonant (mag loops). To
get a second antenna outlet I have to cough up $380 and install the tuner,
which is quite a bit of money for something I mostly won't use. I'd happily
pay $50 or so for a small standalone kit that provided an ANT2 jack, and I
suspect I'm not the only one.

Cheers,
Bruce




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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: Command line firmware updater

[Bruce Nourish]

If the firmware update commands were documented, I would already have done
so, but they don't appear to be. I assume they are the "reserved" commands
listed in the programmers references.

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016, 18:58 Phil Wheeler  wrote:

> But perhaps you could write your own updating
> utility, Bruce. While I have an RPi2 running
> Linux, etc. I'm very happy with the OS-dependent
> utilities we have now. Likely a command line
> utility would not be as capable and could cause
> problems if the command line was not just so.
>
> 73, Phil W7OX
>
> On 3/27/16 5:52 PM, Bruce Nourish wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > As the subject suggests, I'd like to put in a feature request, for a
> > simple, command line firmware updater tool, for all applicable Elecraft
> > rigs. To update the firmware on my KX3 and PX3, I need to download and
> set
> > up two separate programs, most of whose functionality I won't ever need.
> >
> > Such a tool would be easy for Elecraft to write and maintain, and would
> be
> > easy to make work on different platforms, which brings me to the next
> part
> > of this feature request. I'd like to be able to run this tool both on my
> > Intel Linux machines, and my Raspberry Pi, which is hooked up to my KX3
> and
> > PX3 whenever my KX3 is home. Cross-compiling such a simple tool should
> also
> > be pretty easy.
> >
> > I'm sure there are other people who're in similar situations, and would
> > appreciate something to address these use cases. Firmware updates are one
> > of the few things where you can't roll-your-own.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: Command line firmware updater

[Phil Wheeler]

But perhaps you could write your own updating 
utility, Bruce. While I have an RPi2 running 
Linux, etc. I'm very happy with the OS-dependent 
utilities we have now. Likely a command line 
utility would not be as capable and could cause 
problems if the command line was not just so.


73, Phil W7OX

On 3/27/16 5:52 PM, Bruce Nourish wrote:

Hi folks,

As the subject suggests, I'd like to put in a feature request, for a
simple, command line firmware updater tool, for all applicable Elecraft
rigs. To update the firmware on my KX3 and PX3, I need to download and set
up two separate programs, most of whose functionality I won't ever need.

Such a tool would be easy for Elecraft to write and maintain, and would be
easy to make work on different platforms, which brings me to the next part
of this feature request. I'd like to be able to run this tool both on my
Intel Linux machines, and my Raspberry Pi, which is hooked up to my KX3 and
PX3 whenever my KX3 is home. Cross-compiling such a simple tool should also
be pretty easy.

I'm sure there are other people who're in similar situations, and would
appreciate something to address these use cases. Firmware updates are one
of the few things where you can't roll-your-own.


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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Implement AN$ command for subrx antenna selection

[Barry N1EU]

That would be an excellent solution!

73, Barry N1EU

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 5:01 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

>
> That would be inconsistent with the use of AN which selects between
> transmit antennas in K3/K3S equipped with a KANT3/KANT3A tuner.
>
> The appropriate solution would be an entirely new command (RXA/RXA$)
> where RXA0; set the Main RX to Main antenna, RX1; set the Main RX to
> the RX Antenna, RXA$0; set the Sub RX to use the currently selected
> Main RX antenna and RXA$1; set the Sub RX to use either Aux or the
> *unused* (non-transmit) port on the KANT3.
>
> In other words, 0 = RX Ant OFF, 1 = RX Ant on based on the user's
> hardware configuration.
>
> 73,
>
>   ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
> On 2/3/2016 7:25 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:
>
>> This is a straightforward feature request:  implement the $ version of the
>> AN command so that AN$1; sets subreceiver to Main Ant and AN$2; sets
>> subreceiver to AUX
>>
>> 73, Barry N1EU
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Implement AN$ command for subrx antenna selection

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

That would be inconsistent with the use of AN which selects between
transmit antennas in K3/K3S equipped with a KANT3/KANT3A tuner.

The appropriate solution would be an entirely new command (RXA/RXA$)
where RXA0; set the Main RX to Main antenna, RX1; set the Main RX to
the RX Antenna, RXA$0; set the Sub RX to use the currently selected
Main RX antenna and RXA$1; set the Sub RX to use either Aux or the
*unused* (non-transmit) port on the KANT3.

In other words, 0 = RX Ant OFF, 1 = RX Ant on based on the user's
hardware configuration.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/3/2016 7:25 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:

This is a straightforward feature request:  implement the $ version of the
AN command so that AN$1; sets subreceiver to Main Ant and AN$2; sets
subreceiver to AUX

73, Barry N1EU
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: Implement AN$ command for subrx antenna selection

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

I'll add my vote to this one. 73, Guy K2AV

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016, Barry N1EU  wrote:

> This is a straightforward feature request:  implement the $ version of the
> AN command so that AN$1; sets subreceiver to Main Ant and AN$2; sets
> subreceiver to AUX
>
> 73, Barry N1EU
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>


-- 
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: SPLIT on different bands

[Oliver Dröse]

Olli,

this is more confusion to "the normal guy" than just pressing A/B once, 
do the QSO, and get back with another A/B button press. I do it all the 
time when SO2V'ing on different bands, works like a charme. We should 
take care not to over complicate things on an already very feature rich 
radio Joe Average already has trouble with at times.


73 from another Olli - DH8BQA

Contest, DX & radio projects: http://www.dh8bqa.de


Am 16.01.2016 um 13:51 schrieb Oliver Großmann:

Hi elecraft team, hi list,

I'm thinking again on improvements for SO2V operation using a K3 with 
sub RX.
In my opinion operating will be much smoother if TX on 2nd VFO is 
possible.


I do know it is technical not possible to transmit on the frequency of 
the sub RX if it is on a different band. Due to the fact the sub RX is 
as powerful as the main RX I do have an idea.


If split is disabled and both VFOs are on different band (normal 
operation) VFOA frequency, mode, filter bw etc. are shown as usual.
If the operator enables split on different bands, swap RF paths like 
pushing the A/B button but dont swap the displayed information on the 
LCD, CAT information and left/right audio and enable the split icon on 
the LCD.
Of course this aren't all points which need to be considered and with 
PC control it is possible to operate like this, but it would be much 
more robust against operator errors if radio and software setting are 
consistent.


Please give a short feedback if you are with my wish or if it is 
against any operating strategy of elecraft.


Thanks Olli,
DH2WQ














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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: SPLIT on different bands

[Doug Turnbull]

Hi All,
 Yes, please be careful about feature upon feature making the menus a
nightmare.   Thank God for a good manual and KE7X books to further keep us
straight.  This is not really a radio one can operate without manuals.
Think of a ham who only has French and thankfully the K3 in not made in
Normandy or I would be in trouble.  The Orion II for a while had a bad
reputation because of what some found overly complicated menus.   The K3 has
a mass market in ham radio terms and this market helps to keep our favourite
radio company producing the best.

73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don
Wilhelm
Sent: 16 January 2016 14:18
To: Oliver Großmann; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: SPLIT on different bands

Olli,

I think something like that would add confusion to the user interface.
In other words, you have a unique situation that is only applicable if 
split is on a different band, but the display will not reflect the 
status of the normal RX and TX parameters when in split.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/16/2016 7:51 AM, Oliver Großmann wrote:
> Hi elecraft team, hi list,
>
> I'm thinking again on improvements for SO2V operation using a K3 with 
> sub RX.
> In my opinion operating will be much smoother if TX on 2nd VFO is 
> possible.
>
> I do know it is technical not possible to transmit on the frequency of 
> the sub RX if it is on a different band. Due to the fact the sub RX is 
> as powerful as the main RX I do have an idea.
>
> If split is disabled and both VFOs are on different band (normal 
> operation) VFOA frequency, mode, filter bw etc. are shown as usual.
> If the operator enables split on different bands, swap RF paths like 
> pushing the A/B button but dont swap the displayed information on the 
> LCD, CAT information and left/right audio and enable the split icon on 
> the LCD.
> Of course this aren't all points which need to be considered and with 
> PC control it is possible to operate like this, but it would be much 
> more robust against operator errors if radio and software setting are 
> consistent.
>

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request: SPLIT on different bands

[Don Wilhelm]

Olli,

I think something like that would add confusion to the user interface.
In other words, you have a unique situation that is only applicable if 
split is on a different band, but the display will not reflect the 
status of the normal RX and TX parameters when in split.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/16/2016 7:51 AM, Oliver Großmann wrote:

Hi elecraft team, hi list,

I'm thinking again on improvements for SO2V operation using a K3 with 
sub RX.
In my opinion operating will be much smoother if TX on 2nd VFO is 
possible.


I do know it is technical not possible to transmit on the frequency of 
the sub RX if it is on a different band. Due to the fact the sub RX is 
as powerful as the main RX I do have an idea.


If split is disabled and both VFOs are on different band (normal 
operation) VFOA frequency, mode, filter bw etc. are shown as usual.
If the operator enables split on different bands, swap RF paths like 
pushing the A/B button but dont swap the displayed information on the 
LCD, CAT information and left/right audio and enable the split icon on 
the LCD.
Of course this aren't all points which need to be considered and with 
PC control it is possible to operate like this, but it would be much 
more robust against operator errors if radio and software setting are 
consistent.




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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: Audio balance control for K3

[Jeff Schmidt]

Ah, could be, Barry, I'll shut up now.  ;^)

For main/main balance, the first thing that comes to mind is running 
line out to either a mixer (like a Behringer XENYX 302USB ~$50 on 
amazon) or sound card and using the pan/balance built in to that device.


Jeff, KC9WSJ

On 12/29/2015 9:59 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:

I think the OP was asking for main/main L/R balance control which SUB
AF will not provide

73, Barry N1EU

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Jeff Schmidt  wrote:

Mike,
CONFIG: SUB AF: bALANCE will do what you want, minus the individual EQ
curve.

Jeff, KC9WSJ

On 12/29/2015 6:10 AM, Mike Keller wrote:

Would it be possible in software to add an audio balance control?
As time has gone by my left ear takes a lot more drive to match the right
and it's probably going to get worse.
In my best of all worlds it would be great to set an Eq curve individually
too.

Tnx
Mike Keller
W1BNC


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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: Audio balance control for K3

[Barry N1EU]

I think the OP was asking for main/main L/R balance control which SUB
AF will not provide

73, Barry N1EU

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Jeff Schmidt  wrote:
> Mike,
> CONFIG: SUB AF: bALANCE will do what you want, minus the individual EQ
> curve.
>
> Jeff, KC9WSJ
>
> On 12/29/2015 6:10 AM, Mike Keller wrote:
>>
>> Would it be possible in software to add an audio balance control?
>> As time has gone by my left ear takes a lot more drive to match the right
>> and it's probably going to get worse.
>> In my best of all worlds it would be great to set an Eq curve individually
>> too.
>>
>> Tnx
>> Mike Keller
>> W1BNC
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: Audio balance control for K3

[Jeff Schmidt]

Mike,
CONFIG: SUB AF: bALANCE will do what you want, minus the individual EQ 
curve.


Jeff, KC9WSJ

On 12/29/2015 6:10 AM, Mike Keller wrote:

Would it be possible in software to add an audio balance control?
As time has gone by my left ear takes a lot more drive to match the right and 
it's probably going to get worse.
In my best of all worlds it would be great to set an Eq curve individually too.

Tnx
Mike Keller
W1BNC


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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: OFS Knob as frequency fast up/dn

[Don Wilhelm]

Bill and all,

I "cheat" - I do have a good memory for things like that, but I don't 
necessarily remember all the details.
I download the latest manual and scan the Firmware Release Notes before 
answering a question like that.
In this case, I did look only at the latest manual menu listings and 
there it was.
I have had my K3 doing rounding for some time now, but I forgot just how 
it was done - the menu listing told me how to do it.


I would encourage everyone to study the menu listing rather than just 
the text of the operating manual.  The menu items will tell you what can 
be changed to make your K3 truly "yours".


73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/17/2015 8:04 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
Hehe and I though I knew the radio fairly well too. I need to bone up 
on the "press a number key" options in the config menues.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/17/15 at 3:26 PM, w3...@embarqmail.com (Don Wilhelm) wrote:


That too "is already there".
Whether or not the frequency is "rounded" depends on the setting in 
the VFO CRS menu item.  Tap [1] to toggle between rounding and no 
rounding.


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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: OFS Knob as frequency fast up/dn

[Bill Frantz]

Hehe and I though I knew the radio fairly well too. I need to 
bone up on the "press a number key" options in the config menues.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/17/15 at 3:26 PM, w3...@embarqmail.com (Don Wilhelm) wrote:


That too "is already there".
Whether or not the frequency is "rounded" depends on the 
setting in the VFO CRS menu item.  Tap [1] to toggle between 
rounding and no rounding.

VFO CRS determines the per mode frequency steps used when you have set VFO OFS 
to ON.


---
Bill Frantz| gets() remains as a monument | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | to C's continuing support of | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | buffer overruns. | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: OFS Knob as frequency fast up/dn

[Don Wilhelm]

Bill,

That too "is already there".
Whether or not the frequency is "rounded" depends on the setting in the 
VFO CRS menu item.  Tap [1] to toggle between rounding and no rounding.
VFO CRS determines the per mode frequency steps used when you have set 
VFO OFS to ON.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/17/2015 4:46 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
I use it more like Don does, as a somewhat channelized tuning knob. 
When I want to go fast, I sometimes change modes to get a faster skew.


What I would like in this are is to have the K3 adopt the KX3's 
behavior of zeroing the low order digits of the frequency. Enough 
radios make it easy to transmit on these frequencies that it is useful 
to easily tune them.


I would not object to being able to select coarser steps, although I 
probably wouldn't use them myself.




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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: OFS Knob as frequency fast up/dn

[Bill Frantz]

I use it more like Don does, as a somewhat channelized tuning 
knob. When I want to go fast, I sometimes change modes to get a 
faster skew.


What I would like in this are is to have the K3 adopt the KX3's 
behavior of zeroing the low order digits of the frequency. 
Enough radios make it easy to transmit on these frequencies that 
it is useful to easily tune them.


I would not object to being able to select coarser steps, 
although I probably wouldn't use them myself.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/17/15 at 4:56 AM, w...@triconet.org (Wes (N7WS)) wrote:

Like Peter I was accustomed to this feature in my Kenwood 
TS-870.  The Elecraft implementation is OK, but I prefer the 5 
KHz steps.  To me this is a course, "get to the other end of 
the band segment in a hurry" control. Two and one-half KHz just 
seems weird to me, as does the different rate for different modes.



On 11/16/2015 6:52 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Peter,

Yes, 2.5kHz is the upper limit, but for SSB I use 0.5 kHz 
because SSB stations are usually on 1 kHz boundaries although 
0.5 boundaries are possible.  For CW I use 0.1 kHz.  2.5kHz is 
typical for FM stations, but too wide for SSB or CW.  To me, 
it is just a quick way of scanning through the band.  If your 
expectations are more than that, then submit your request for 
an additional firmware upgrade.

---
Bill Frantz| If the site is supported by  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | ads, you are the product.| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: OFS Knob as frequency fast up/dn

[Wes (N7WS)]

Like Peter I was accustomed to this feature in my Kenwood TS-870.  The Elecraft 
implementation is OK, but I prefer the 5 KHz steps.  To me this is a course, 
"get to the other end of the band segment in a hurry" control. Two and one-half 
KHz just seems weird to me, as does the different rate for different modes.



On 11/16/2015 6:52 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Peter,

Yes, 2.5kHz is the upper limit, but for SSB I use 0.5 kHz because SSB stations 
are usually on 1 kHz boundaries although 0.5 boundaries are possible.  For CW 
I use 0.1 kHz.  2.5kHz is typical for FM stations, but too wide for SSB or 
CW.  To me, it is just a quick way of scanning through the band.  If your 
expectations are more than that, then submit your request for an additional 
firmware upgrade.


If the coarse tuning does not land you on a 'netted' frequency, a slight 
adjustment of the VFO A knob will bring in the occasional 'off frequency' 
station.
I regard it as a way of scanning the band with the knobs and do not mind fine 
tuning any station of interest with the VFO A knob. YMMV.  I prefer that to 
using computer control of the frequency although I am of the 'old school', and 
old habits die hard.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/16/2015 8:36 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:
The Rounding YES/NO doesn't seem to have any effect. What should I be 
seeing?  2.5Khz is the highest value I can set.


On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Don Wilhelm > wrote:


Peter,

I assume you are talking about the KX3.
It is already there - look at the VFO CRS description on the
manual (see page 40).  Note that this is a per mode setting.  No
firmware change is necessary.

The K3 (and K3S) has something similar but uses the RIT knob if
CONFIG: VFO OFS is set to ON and both RIT and XIT are OFF.

I use that regularly on both my K3 and KX3.

73,
Don W3FPR


On 11/16/2015 8:13 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:

One of the few things I miss from my Kenwood TS-590S is the
Multi/CH knob
that lets you change the VFO frequency up or down 5 KHz for
each encoder
transition. I used this all the time to go quickly to a
frequency within a
band. It was even usually faster than the manual keypad entry.



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: OFS Knob as frequency fast up/dn

[Don Wilhelm]

Peter,

Yes, 2.5kHz is the upper limit, but for SSB I use 0.5 kHz because SSB 
stations are usually on 1 kHz boundaries although 0.5 boundaries are 
possible.  For CW I use 0.1 kHz.  2.5kHz is typical for FM stations, but 
too wide for SSB or CW.  To me, it is just a quick way of scanning 
through the band.  If your expectations are more than that, then submit 
your request for an additional firmware upgrade.


If the coarse tuning does not land you on a 'netted' frequency, a slight 
adjustment of the VFO A knob will bring in the occasional 'off 
frequency' station.
I regard it as a way of scanning the band with the knobs and do not mind 
fine tuning any station of interest with the VFO A knob. YMMV.  I prefer 
that to using computer control of the frequency although I am of the 
'old school', and old habits die hard.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/16/2015 8:36 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:
The Rounding YES/NO doesn't seem to have any effect. What should I be 
seeing?  2.5Khz is the highest value I can set.


On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Don Wilhelm > wrote:


Peter,

I assume you are talking about the KX3.
It is already there - look at the VFO CRS description on the
manual (see page 40).  Note that this is a per mode setting.  No
firmware change is necessary.

The K3 (and K3S) has something similar but uses the RIT knob if
CONFIG: VFO OFS is set to ON and both RIT and XIT are OFF.

I use that regularly on both my K3 and KX3.

73,
Don W3FPR


On 11/16/2015 8:13 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:

One of the few things I miss from my Kenwood TS-590S is the
Multi/CH knob
that lets you change the VFO frequency up or down 5 KHz for
each encoder
transition. I used this all the time to go quickly to a
frequency within a
band. It was even usually faster than the manual keypad entry.






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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: OFS Knob as frequency fast up/dn

[Peter Pauly]

The Rounding YES/NO doesn't seem to have any effect. What should I be
seeing?  2.5Khz is the highest value I can set.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> Peter,
>
> I assume you are talking about the KX3.
> It is already there - look at the VFO CRS description on the manual (see
> page 40).  Note that this is a per mode setting.  No firmware change is
> necessary.
>
> The K3 (and K3S) has something similar but uses the RIT knob if CONFIG:
> VFO OFS is set to ON and both RIT and XIT are OFF.
>
> I use that regularly on both my K3 and KX3.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 11/16/2015 8:13 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:
>
>> One of the few things I miss from my Kenwood TS-590S is the Multi/CH knob
>> that lets you change the VFO frequency up or down 5 KHz for each encoder
>> transition. I used this all the time to go quickly to a frequency within a
>> band. It was even usually faster than the manual keypad entry.
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: OFS Knob as frequency fast up/dn

[Peter Pauly]

No, the K3S.  Amazing that it was already thought of and part of the radio.
Color me impressed!

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> Peter,
>
> I assume you are talking about the KX3.
> It is already there - look at the VFO CRS description on the manual (see
> page 40).  Note that this is a per mode setting.  No firmware change is
> necessary.
>
> The K3 (and K3S) has something similar but uses the RIT knob if CONFIG:
> VFO OFS is set to ON and both RIT and XIT are OFF.
>
> I use that regularly on both my K3 and KX3.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 11/16/2015 8:13 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:
>
>> One of the few things I miss from my Kenwood TS-590S is the Multi/CH knob
>> that lets you change the VFO frequency up or down 5 KHz for each encoder
>> transition. I used this all the time to go quickly to a frequency within a
>> band. It was even usually faster than the manual keypad entry.
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: OFS Knob as frequency fast up/dn

[Don Wilhelm]

Peter,

I assume you are talking about the KX3.
It is already there - look at the VFO CRS description on the manual (see 
page 40).  Note that this is a per mode setting.  No firmware change is 
necessary.


The K3 (and K3S) has something similar but uses the RIT knob if CONFIG: 
VFO OFS is set to ON and both RIT and XIT are OFF.


I use that regularly on both my K3 and KX3.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/16/2015 8:13 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:

One of the few things I miss from my Kenwood TS-590S is the Multi/CH knob
that lets you change the VFO frequency up or down 5 KHz for each encoder
transition. I used this all the time to go quickly to a frequency within a
band. It was even usually faster than the manual keypad entry.




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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request: OFS Knob as frequency fast up/dn

[Ian]

The K3/K3S already does this!  Set Config:VFO OFS to ON.  Adjust rate with
Config:VFO CRS.
73, Ian N8IK 



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Peter
Pauly
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 20:14
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: [Elecraft] Feature request: OFS Knob as frequency fast up/dn

One of the few things I miss from my Kenwood TS-590S is the Multi/CH knob
that lets you change the VFO frequency up or down 5 KHz for each encoder
transition. I used this all the time to go quickly to a frequency within a
band. It was even usually faster than the manual keypad entry.

I propose that through a firmware change, the OFS (RIT/XIT) knob be used for
such a purpose when it it not being used for RIT/XIT (LEDs are off). It
seems to do nothing at the moment when RIT/XIT is not active.

What do you guys think?
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Re: [Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

[Paul Saffren]

HI George,

I made a mistake on the band switching.  The "BN" command takes a 2 
digit argument.  For example to change to 160 meters, use BN00;
I have my keypad now set up for 160 through 10 meters and it works 
really good.  At this rate I may need to allocate more room for more
macros/text messages on the PX3.   Glad  you are taking advantage and 
enjoying it.


Kind regards,

Paul



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Re: [Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

[George via Elecraft]

Hello all
I  thank you for all the help. I programmed it and it worked great. The only 
thing that didn’t seem
to work is the band switching. maybe its my keyboard. I don’t know. 
The power button is most convenient. I love it!

Any other goodies?

George NE2I


On Nov 10, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Paul Saffren N6HZ  wrote:

> And the BN commands must be 2 digits.  (I just added those) So 160 meters is
> BN00; and so on. 
> 
> Also, you can set up a macro to turn both the KX3 and PX3 off with one
> button push on the PX3 front panel.  First program a macro using one of the
> first 8 memory locations with the following: 
> PS0;#PS0;   Map it to a front panel FN key using the Text Menu sub-menu, 
> (see manual). 
> 
> Here's another trick a customer came up with.  Let's say you're working a
> pileup with the PX3, you have it set up for split on CW and you want to
> inject your call sign very quickly.  This can be done by setting up a
> keyboard macro to execute on a FN keypress: 
> 1) Create a macro in one of the first 8 locations so it can be mapped to a
> FN key. 
> 2) We'll use your call sign as an example. For the message body enter:  KY
> NE1I; 
> 3) Now using the Text Menu sub-menu, program that macro to a FN key.  
> 
> Now it's just a matter of using the PX3 VFO Marker to choose a position in
> the pileup, push the encoder to QSY, followed by FN key to quickly send your
> call. 
> 
> -Paul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/feature-request-PX3-keyboard-VFO-control-tp7610210p7610221.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

[Hajo Dezelski]

Hello Paul,

just let everything drop and write a "Px3 Macros for Dummies". I know that
you can do it and it would be a great help for the rest of the folks who
try but do not succeed.

73 de
Hajo (DL1SDZ)

---
Cela est bien dit, ...,mais il fault cultiver notre jardin.
Am 11.11.2015 01:57 schrieb "Paul Saffren N6HZ" :

> And the BN commands must be 2 digits.  (I just added those) So 160 meters
> is
> BN00; and so on.
>
> Also, you can set up a macro to turn both the KX3 and PX3 off with one
> button push on the PX3 front panel.  First program a macro using one of the
> first 8 memory locations with the following:
> PS0;#PS0;   Map it to a front panel FN key using the Text Menu sub-menu,
> (see manual).
>
> Here's another trick a customer came up with.  Let's say you're working a
> pileup with the PX3, you have it set up for split on CW and you want to
> inject your call sign very quickly.  This can be done by setting up a
> keyboard macro to execute on a FN keypress:
> 1) Create a macro in one of the first 8 locations so it can be mapped to a
> FN key.
> 2) We'll use your call sign as an example. For the message body enter:  KY
> NE1I;
> 3) Now using the Text Menu sub-menu, program that macro to a FN key.
>
> Now it's just a matter of using the PX3 VFO Marker to choose a position in
> the pileup, push the encoder to QSY, followed by FN key to quickly send
> your
> call.
>
> -Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/feature-request-PX3-keyboard-VFO-control-tp7610210p7610221.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

[Paul Saffren N6HZ]

And the BN commands must be 2 digits.  (I just added those) So 160 meters is
BN00; and so on. 

Also, you can set up a macro to turn both the KX3 and PX3 off with one
button push on the PX3 front panel.  First program a macro using one of the
first 8 memory locations with the following: 
PS0;#PS0;   Map it to a front panel FN key using the Text Menu sub-menu, 
(see manual). 

Here's another trick a customer came up with.  Let's say you're working a
pileup with the PX3, you have it set up for split on CW and you want to
inject your call sign very quickly.  This can be done by setting up a
keyboard macro to execute on a FN keypress: 
1) Create a macro in one of the first 8 locations so it can be mapped to a
FN key. 
2) We'll use your call sign as an example. For the message body enter:  KY
NE1I; 
3) Now using the Text Menu sub-menu, program that macro to a FN key.  

Now it's just a matter of using the PX3 VFO Marker to choose a position in
the pileup, push the encoder to QSY, followed by FN key to quickly send your
call. 

-Paul







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Re: [Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

[Ken Alexander]

Hi George,

They have a piece of sample code to do what I think you want to do at 
the bottom of page 6 of the K2s & K3 & KX3 Programmers Reference 
document.  You can download the PDF file from the Elecraft website:

http://www.elecraft.com/K2_Manual_Download_Page.htm#KX3

73,

Ken Alexander
VE3HLS


On 2015-11-10 6:53 PM, George via Elecraft wrote:

Hello All
Im playing around with the macros and trying to see if i could control the VFO 
with the keyboard
(left right arrows maybe)
Anyone successful with this using the PX3 Keyboard?

George NE2I


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Re: [Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

[Paul Saffren N6HZ]

I made a mistake, to adjust by 1 Hz it's UP0; and DN0;

-Paul




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Re: [Elecraft] feature request PX3 keyboard VFO control

[Paul Saffren N6HZ]

Hi George, 

You bet you can control the VFO with the PX3 keyboard.  Here's what I have
set up on my PX3: 

I use the UP/Down, Ctrl-Up/Down, Left/Right and Ctrl-Left/Right.   I have
the up/down keys adjust the frequency by 1 Hz, Ctrl-up/down by 10 Hz,
Right/Left arrow by 100 Hz and Ctrl-Right/Left arrow by 1 kHz: 


Up Arrow: UP1;
Down Arrow: DN1;

Ctrl-Up Arrow: UP;
Ctrl-Down Arrow: DN;

Right Arrow: UP8;
Left Arrow: DN8;

Ctrl-Right Arrow: UP4;
Ctrl-Left Arrow: DN4;

If you have a numeric keypad on your keyboard, you can use those keypad keys
as band buttons.  For example, you can map KP0 (keypad 0) to BN0; KP1 to
BN1;  and so on.  Those 10 keys get you from 160 to 10 meters.  Some day
when I have some extra time here at Elecraft I'll put together some tips on
macros. :-)



Kind regards, 

Paul




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Re: [Elecraft] Feature Request

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO]

Yeah, I've envied KX3 users this feature too. Would be nice.

And I still have occasional P3 freezes although the latest firmware 
version is better than the previous one.


On 11 Feb 2015 17:45, Mike Wetzel wrote:

Just playing with a borrowed KX3 and noticed a nice feature on the AFX MD.
You can select off, delay and pitch.  Any chance pitch could be added to the
K3?  In effect the pitch of CW stations maps from left to right.



BTW my P3 does a lot of freezing.



Thanks,



Mike W9RE



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Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - AF/RF knob default behavior

[Mark Petiford]

Mark (K7MJG...this is going to get confusing!),

Re:  <>

Excellent idea!  Sometimes simpler isbetter.
   
I, too, tend to operate with the AF up and use RF gain to control the volume 
any time the band is noisy.  Makes sense in a radio that has an RF amplifier up 
front, but not sure it is as helpful with the KX3 (but I still do it).  I 
haven't really seen a need to control this on a per-band basis, though.  I like 
your idea since it follows the KISS principle, reduces "code bloat", and lets 
me configure my radio with one button press.

The other Mark,
KE6BB
(Told you this was going to get confusing)!
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - AF/RF knob default behavior

[K7MJG]

Wayne,

I've been saying that the AF/RF reverts to AF on "band change", but I
noticed that it reverts to AF upon a memory recall as well, regardless of
whether the recalled frequency is within the current band or not.  So I
suppose that I should adjust my wording to say that anytime the firmware
currently reverts to AF mode should be changed to not revert to AF mode and
just stay in the currently selected mode.

Thanks,
Mark
K7MJG



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - AF/RF knob default behavior

[K7MJG]

Wayne,

Something easier to implement than what I suggested would be to simply *not*
change the AF/RF mode on a band change.  That way, there would be no
additional menu option to implement.  All an operator would have to do is
click the AF/RF button *once* on power up and they would be able to use the
RF-only adjustment for the length of that power up session.  

Furthermore, no documentation would have to change (other than the release
notes).  I checked the KX3 Owner's Manual and no mention is made of AF/RF
mode band switch behavior. (Page 12.)

Mark
K7MJG



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - AF/RF knob default behavior

[Wayne Burdick]

So noted, Mark (and added to the wish list). Thanks.

Wayne
N6KR


On Nov 26, 2013, at 5:38 PM, K7MJG  wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> On power up, and at the switch to a new band, the AF/RF knob controls AF.  I
> can press the knob to control the RF level.  As a matter of operating style
> to reduce noise, I *always* set the AF to 60 (the max) and then use RF to
> control listening levels.  However, as I switch bands, the KX3 switches back
> to AF mode and I have to keep toggling back to RF mode.  I feel like I'm
> going to eventually break the AF/RF knob.  
> 
> I would like the ability to specify in a menu that RF is the default mode
> for the AF/RF knob instead of AF.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark
> 
> K7MJG
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[AD6XY]

Hi Don,

I guess I didn't explain well enough.

What I meant is the K3 has lots of ways to go to TX/ many of which I want to
use/ 

So yes, I do want to go to TX via the voice keyer, or via the internet, or
via the key, memory keyer, tune button or even the microphone ptt switch. I
just don't want it to QSK - that's it - only to disable QSK and only on
bands above 50MHz. 

I have found a work around I listed earlier, its not ideal but its a lot
better.  

Mike



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Ralph, I was raised with vacuum tubes. My first receiver used three type 76
triodes. In school I learned to design with tubes, plot their
characteristics and so forth. I homebrewed a lot of transmitters and
receivers using vacuum tubes as  Ham and I serviced a lot of vacuum tube
gear in my work. 

And then after just a couple of years working as an Technical writer (all
engineering in those pre-computer days) I found myself looking at schematics
of transistors. 

Now, by then, I had read many books on transistors - all about holes and
carriers (in junction devices) - but they still confused me. So, one day, I
bought several devices, dug some pots out of my junk box along with a few
batteries for power and started bread-boarding transistor circuits. It was
only a few hours before the "AHA!" moment that had me watching how the
collector or drain current varied with the base current or gate voltages. 

That was about 1960 and I was hooked on solid state. That was before
integrated circuits. Oh, there was some TTL around, but most of the stuff I
wrote circuit descriptions for were things like J-K flip-flops made out of
junction transistors. 

I still mess with tubes occasionally. I love watching the filaments come up
to temperature and the smell of hot glass. But solid state is something that
can be bread-boarded in minutes with no need to wire filaments. Many of my
breadboards are no board at all, just a big ball of components wired
together in a sort of "rat's nest" of components. That works great for low
frequency and audio stuff. 

As long as you are breathing you are young enough to learn and enjoy new
things. Give it a shot! You might discover a world of fun! 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-


On Aug 29, 2013, at 4:15 PM, Ralph Parker wrote:

>> If you use Joe's solution where PTT is one input into an AND gate, if 
>> PTT is not asserted, your relays will not close. All inputs to the 
>> AND gate must be present for the output to change state.
> 
> I've wanted this 'feature request' since K3 Day 1.
> Don's solution sounds like a reasonable work-around.
> Unfortunately, I'm transistorially challenged.
> Can I build this with a few 12AU7s ?
> 
> Ralph, VE7XF

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[Don Wilhelm]

Certainly you could build it with 12AU7s, but more simply, a 74LS11 (or 
74AC11) will do the job nicely.  That has 3 3 input AND gates, and you 
need only one of the 3.  If you chose that device, you will need 
inverters (74LS04) in addition because PTT is active low, and the inputs 
of the 74LS11 will AND with active high, so you may need to invert some 
inputs, and depending on what you are driving, you may have to invert 
the output of the AND gate.  In addition, you may need some sort of a 
relay driver if the relays cannot be driven from a 5 volt logic source.


A little study into logic devices may be in order - it is not 
complicated, you just have to "follow the rules".


For the 74AC11,  when all 3 inputs are at a high level, the output will 
be at a high level - if any of those inputs are at a low level, the 
output will also be low.  High level for the 74LS family is a voltage of 
2 volts or greater (up to 5 volts) and a voltage of 0.8 volts or lower 
for a "low" voltage.  The "AC" family allows a greater range, but not as 
much noise immunity for voltage between the high and low thresholds.


Joe suggested using a NOR gate which is a little different in that it 
will logically AND the inputs when they are *all* at a low level and the 
output will then be at a high level.  Again, a little study of logic 
gates may be required for those not familiar with digital logic - they 
can do marvelous things if you want some conbination of signals o 
produce a specific output.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/29/2013 7:15 PM, Ralph Parker wrote:

If you use Joe's solution where PTT is one input into an AND gate, if PTT is
not asserted, your relays will not close. All inputs to the AND gate must be
present for the output to change state.

I've wanted this 'feature request' since K3 Day 1.
Don's solution sounds like a reasonable work-around.
Unfortunately, I'm transistorially challenged.
Can I build this with a few 12AU7s ?

Ralph, VE7XF



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[Walter Underwood]

Sure. Start here for vacuum tube logic: 
http://www.neazoi.com/technology/logic.htm

wunder
K6WRU

On Aug 29, 2013, at 4:15 PM, Ralph Parker wrote:

>> If you use Joe's solution where PTT is one input into an AND gate, if PTT is
>> not asserted, your relays will not close. All inputs to the AND gate must be
>> present for the output to change state. 
> 
> I've wanted this 'feature request' since K3 Day 1.
> Don's solution sounds like a reasonable work-around.
> Unfortunately, I'm transistorially challenged.
> Can I build this with a few 12AU7s ?
> 
> Ralph, VE7XF
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[Ralph Parker]

>If you use Joe's solution where PTT is one input into an AND gate, if PTT is
>not asserted, your relays will not close. All inputs to the AND gate must be
>present for the output to change state. 

I've wanted this 'feature request' since K3 Day 1.
Don's solution sounds like a reasonable work-around.
Unfortunately, I'm transistorially challenged.
Can I build this with a few 12AU7s ?

Ralph, VE7XF

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

I guess you need to make a choice - "fast" Key Out if you are
not using semi break-in or PTT to condition KeyOut.  Of course the
other solution is to add external delay to KeyOut (in the sequencer).

KeyOut is /8R (effectively the receiver MUTE line which works no
matter what switching mode - VOX/PTT/Semi break-in - is selected)
in the K3.  There is no processor involvement and no delay which is
*exactly* what I want for driving a QSK PA.  If I want delay, I can
turn on the VOX to select semi break-in.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 8/28/2013 2:08 PM, AD6XY wrote:

Hi Joe,

That's an easy one - I did think about that but rejected the idea as the K3
can go into transmit without a PTT input, in several ways, including the
extremely useful voice keyer but also by PC command, pressing the tune
button, VOX etc.

Mike



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike,

If you use Joe's solution where PTT is one input into an AND gate, if 
PTT is not asserted, your relays will not close.  All inputs to the AND 
gate must be present for the output to change state.


73,
Don W3FPR
On 8/28/2013 2:08 PM, AD6XY wrote:

Hi Joe,

That's an easy one - I did think about that but rejected the idea as the K3
can go into transmit without a PTT input, in several ways, including the
extremely useful voice keyer but also by PC command, pressing the tune
button, VOX etc.

Mike




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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[AD6XY]

Hi Joe,

That's an easy one - I did think about that but rejected the idea as the K3
can go into transmit without a PTT input, in several ways, including the
extremely useful voice keyer but also by PC command, pressing the tune
button, VOX etc.

Mike



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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

In the unlikely event anyone is interested, I use one of WW2R/G4FREs
band selection boards to provide a 12V signal for
4m/2m/70cm/23cm/13cm/9cm/6cm/3cm band. It monitors the K3 RS232 line.
It also provides band by band PTT but I don't use that facility, I
gate a single PTT line via the 12V per band.


Why don't you simply add a second gate?  Gate KeyOut (which you are
using for PTT) by band select *and* the signal you use as the K3 PTT
*input*.  In other words take a NOR gate, connect a diode from one
input to the K3 PTT input (mic jack and rear panel are in parallel),
connect the other input to KeyOut (or KeyOut LP if you are using the
ACC jack) and connect the output of the NOR gate to the PTT Input of
your WW2R/G4FRE board or the current PTT logic.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 8/28/2013 4:59 AM, AD6XY wrote:

Thanks everyone for the most useful suggestions. I have now determined that
the semi break in delay only works when VOX is activated, so if you are
using PTT, which I was, and you press the memory button, there is no delay
and the PTT output rattles up and down. With VOX activated the hang time is
asserted.

Fortunately, VOX is mode sensitive, i.e. CW and SSB are set individually so
one can live with this. I don't understand why you need VOX for Semi break
in to work, but that's how it is.

The TX suppression is a good thing to have, but in my case it is handled in
the transverters. The TX power is only 1mW and it goes straight into the
mixer. At that power level it hardly matters if the input pin diodes or
relays are hot switching. What does matter is the settling of the output
TX/RX relays and this is OK because I switch the PA bias with a 100mS delay
so they don't see power until they have had time to settle.

A rapidly changing PTT out status is a problem for my system because, a lot
is going on in the TX/RX changeover. There are bias supplies and drain
supplies to switch and a rapid on/off could defeat my relatively simple
sequencing logic. This takes about 100mS and if the PTT drops part way
through and then rises again just after, it could result in hot switching.

There is a useful K3 option to delay TX by up to 60mS to allow for
amplifiers to switch. I am using this as well, just in case.

In the unlikely event anyone is interested, I use one of WW2R/G4FREs band
selection boards to provide a 12V signal for
4m/2m/70cm/23cm/13cm/9cm/6cm/3cm band. It monitors the K3 RS232 line. It
also provides band by band PTT but I don't use that facility, I gate a
single PTT line via the 12V per band.

In the shack I have two of W1GHZs miniverters, one for 2m and one for 70cm
which provide the interface to the microwave transverters. These share a VHF
Apollo local oscillator which develops 116 MHz or 404 MHz as required. Some
simple diode/relay logic selects which IF, LO and microwave transverter is
activated depending on the microwave band. It is designed for 23/13/9/6/3cm
but currently only 23/13/9cm are on the mast.

My microwave transverters are located 20m away, at the base of my
lightweight Tenamast to cut down on cable losses. The 12V per band and PTT
signals are decoded with relay/diode logic. I have 1:6 relays at the top and
bottom so I only need one TX and one RX feeder up the mast. This saves much
weight and each feeder is only 10m long. As the pre-amps and band select are
all in a box at the top, I can use a lightweight LMR400 for the RX line. The
TX line is LDF4-50, LDF5-50 would have lower loss but it is not flexible
enough.

Apart from raising the mast, this is all completely automated, (potentially
controllable via the internet if only I had a decent broadband connection)
and it does not interfere with HF/VHF operation.

Mike




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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - K3 RX EQ by mode

[Martin Kratoska]

Many thanks, I must be blind or non-literate.

73,
Martin, OK1RR
K3 #7554
KPA500 #1565
KAT500 #849
P3 #2752

Dne 28.8.2013 13:21, Mike Schultz napsal(a):

They ARE separate. CW rxEQ is separate from voice mode rxEQ, and rxEQ is
disabled in DATA mode.
Mike, KS0T


-Original Message- From: Martin Kratoska
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:11 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Feature request - K3 RX EQ by mode

Hello,

it would be nice to have RX EQ by mode. Separate adjustment for CW
cutting the passband >800 Hz eliminates the fatigue from noise but is
rather impractical while (casually) operating SSB...

73,
Martin, OK1RR
K3 #7554
KPA500 #1565
KAT500 #849
P3 #2752
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - K3 RX EQ by mode

[bill conkling]

It already is.

And it is disabled in Data modes.

...bill nr4c

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Martin Kratoska  wrote:

>Hello,
>
>it would be nice to have RX EQ by mode. Separate adjustment for CW 
>cutting the passband >800 Hz eliminates the fatigue from noise but is 
>rather impractical while (casually) operating SSB...
>
>73,
>Martin, OK1RR
>K3 #7554
>KPA500 #1565
>KAT500 #849
>P3 #2752
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - K3 RX EQ by mode

[Mike Schultz]

They ARE separate. CW rxEQ is separate from voice mode rxEQ, and rxEQ is 
disabled in DATA mode.

Mike, KS0T


-Original Message- 
From: Martin Kratoska

Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:11 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Feature request - K3 RX EQ by mode

Hello,

it would be nice to have RX EQ by mode. Separate adjustment for CW
cutting the passband >800 Hz eliminates the fatigue from noise but is
rather impractical while (casually) operating SSB...

73,
Martin, OK1RR
K3 #7554
KPA500 #1565
KAT500 #849
P3 #2752
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[AD6XY]

Thanks everyone for the most useful suggestions. I have now determined that
the semi break in delay only works when VOX is activated, so if you are
using PTT, which I was, and you press the memory button, there is no delay
and the PTT output rattles up and down. With VOX activated the hang time is
asserted. 

Fortunately, VOX is mode sensitive, i.e. CW and SSB are set individually so
one can live with this. I don't understand why you need VOX for Semi break
in to work, but that's how it is. 

The TX suppression is a good thing to have, but in my case it is handled in
the transverters. The TX power is only 1mW and it goes straight into the
mixer. At that power level it hardly matters if the input pin diodes or
relays are hot switching. What does matter is the settling of the output
TX/RX relays and this is OK because I switch the PA bias with a 100mS delay
so they don't see power until they have had time to settle.

A rapidly changing PTT out status is a problem for my system because, a lot
is going on in the TX/RX changeover. There are bias supplies and drain
supplies to switch and a rapid on/off could defeat my relatively simple
sequencing logic. This takes about 100mS and if the PTT drops part way
through and then rises again just after, it could result in hot switching.
 
There is a useful K3 option to delay TX by up to 60mS to allow for
amplifiers to switch. I am using this as well, just in case.

In the unlikely event anyone is interested, I use one of WW2R/G4FREs band
selection boards to provide a 12V signal for
4m/2m/70cm/23cm/13cm/9cm/6cm/3cm band. It monitors the K3 RS232 line. It
also provides band by band PTT but I don't use that facility, I gate a
single PTT line via the 12V per band. 

In the shack I have two of W1GHZs miniverters, one for 2m and one for 70cm
which provide the interface to the microwave transverters. These share a VHF
Apollo local oscillator which develops 116 MHz or 404 MHz as required. Some
simple diode/relay logic selects which IF, LO and microwave transverter is
activated depending on the microwave band. It is designed for 23/13/9/6/3cm
but currently only 23/13/9cm are on the mast.

My microwave transverters are located 20m away, at the base of my
lightweight Tenamast to cut down on cable losses. The 12V per band and PTT
signals are decoded with relay/diode logic. I have 1:6 relays at the top and
bottom so I only need one TX and one RX feeder up the mast. This saves much
weight and each feeder is only 10m long. As the pre-amps and band select are
all in a box at the top, I can use a lightweight LMR400 for the RX line. The
TX line is LDF4-50, LDF5-50 would have lower loss but it is not flexible
enough.

Apart from raising the mast, this is all completely automated, (potentially
controllable via the internet if only I had a decent broadband connection)
and it does not interfere with HF/VHF operation.

Mike




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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[Edward R Cole]

Interesting discussion.  I use KEY-OUT to control my sequencer so my 
mic or KEY function just like they do on HF.  I utilize  INH to 
prevent RF until the proper time in sequence of change over from Rx to Tx.


BUT, I do not do very much CW on VHF+ with my KEY.  Most CW is 
computer "keyboard" generated so the sw generates a RTS command over 
RS232 to Key the K3 PTT.  This is definitely semi break-in, where the 
radio is held in Tx as long as CW characters are running in the 
computer buffer.


This will be an issue if I send CW manually.  Looks to me adding a 
manual PTT switch which keys PTT on the K3 would be the solution 
(could be a foot switch or toggle switch on the control panel).  I 
assume I would not need to switch off VOX as the PTT input would 
overide the VOX.  Is that true?


I try to configure my station to work nearly automatically when I 
change over from HF to VHF+ so mistakes do not happen.  Thanks to the 
originator of this quesion.


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
dubus...@gmail.com
"Kits made by KL7UW" 


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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike,

I cannot remember all the details in the original discussions, but I am 
"with you"..  I was outvoted.


OTOH, if one is using KEYOUT to initiate the sequencer, if KEYOUT does 
not become active until PTT is asserted, then there is a "cause and 
effect" problem - the sequencer will not start until PTT is asserted 
(because it is started with the KEYOUT signal) and further delays 
(requiring the use of TX INH) will be introduced.


The solution is to start the sequencer with the onset of PTT (from the 
PTT footswitch or other switch) rather than using the K3 KEYOUT, and use 
TX INH to inhibit RF until the sequencer completes its cycle.


That solution eliminates the "chattering relays" situation, and does not 
cause other problems.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/27/2013 6:52 PM, Mike Harris wrote:
It would be interesting to learn under what practical circumstances 
someone might offer that the current arrangement is a desired mode.  I 
can't think of any, however, that could just be lack of imagination on 
my part.


Until convinced otherwise my vote is with N6ML.  CW mode, VOX off, no 
PTT = no Key Out.


Regards,

Mike VP8NO

On 27/08/2013 19:19, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:

It does seem a bit lame that KEY OUT is activated when the K3 is not
transmitting. Maybe there should be an (optional) mode where the CW
key inputs (including memory) are completely ignored when VOX is off
and PTT is not asserted..

73,

 ~iain / N6ML



On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Don Wilhelm  
wrote:

Mike,

I think you mean Keyout rather than PTT -- PTT is an input signal to 
the K3

generated by an external device such as a footswitch..

The use of TX INH does not prevent the Keyout signal from activating 
- it
should click the relays and start your sequencer.  BUT it does 
prevent RF
from being transmitted which will protect your preamps and other 
things that

need to be protected during the sequencer time.
A typical sequencer will complete its cycle in a few tens of 
milliseconds.
If you don't like the Keyout state changing with keying, use 
semi-break-in

and set the delay to whatever time period you desire to keep the Keyout
active between characters, words, etc. - that time will depend on your
keying speed..

73,
Don W3FPR


On 8/27/2013 5:44 PM, AD6XY wrote:


Hi Don,

That doesn't work too well because the PTT signal still bounces up and
down
setting off all the relays. My IC735 used to have a VOX delay which 
you
could set to something long to prevent that - but unless I missed a 
menu I

can't seem to find where you set the CW VOX hang time.

Mike

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[Win Kriegl DK9IP/KH7CD]

Yes and it has been quite disturbing that a K3 locked with TXinh still 
behaves (or "looks") like it´s transmitting, although there is no power 
output.


73, Win DK9IP



Am 28.08.2013 00:52, schrieb Mike Harris:

It would be interesting to learn under what practical circumstances
someone might offer that the current arrangement is a desired mode. I
can't think of any, however, that could just be lack of imagination on
my part.

Until convinced otherwise my vote is with N6ML. CW mode, VOX off, no PTT
= no Key Out.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

On 27/08/2013 19:19, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:

It does seem a bit lame that KEY OUT is activated when the K3 is not
transmitting. Maybe there should be an (optional) mode where the CW
key inputs (including memory) are completely ignored when VOX is off
and PTT is not asserted..

73,

~iain / N6ML



On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Don Wilhelm 
wrote:

Mike,

I think you mean Keyout rather than PTT -- PTT is an input signal to
the K3
generated by an external device such as a footswitch..

The use of TX INH does not prevent the Keyout signal from activating
- it
should click the relays and start your sequencer. BUT it does prevent RF
from being transmitted which will protect your preamps and other
things that
need to be protected during the sequencer time.
A typical sequencer will complete its cycle in a few tens of
milliseconds.
If you don't like the Keyout state changing with keying, use
semi-break-in
and set the delay to whatever time period you desire to keep the Keyout
active between characters, words, etc. - that time will depend on your
keying speed..

73,
Don W3FPR


On 8/27/2013 5:44 PM, AD6XY wrote:


Hi Don,

That doesn't work too well because the PTT signal still bounces up and
down
setting off all the relays. My IC735 used to have a VOX delay which you
could set to something long to prevent that - but unless I missed a
menu I
can't seem to find where you set the CW VOX hang time.

Mike

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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[alexandr.kobranov]

Hi Mike,

if You open some mail-archive You can see a lot of mails concerning this 
behaviour (recognized as strange by some of us) from the first days of K3. 
There is probably no way for solution. So if You have key activated You have
a Key Out activated. There is no real PTT out. Probably this was not 
recognized in design period as a real need and nobody count with some of us 
with more complex systems with VHF/UHF transvertors, premplifiers and a lot 
of relays around :-( 
Yes, there is no RF and You have Inhibit port. But .

73!
Lexa, ok1dst


-- Původní zpráva --
Od: Mike Harris 
Datum: 28. 8. 2013
Předmět: Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

"It would be interesting to learn under what practical circumstances 
someone might offer that the current arrangement is a desired mode. I 
can't think of any, however, that could just be lack of imagination on 
my part.

Until convinced otherwise my vote is with N6ML. CW mode, VOX off, no 
PTT = no Key Out.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

On 27/08/2013 19:19, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:
> It does seem a bit lame that KEY OUT is activated when the K3 is not
> transmitting. Maybe there should be an (optional) mode where the CW
> key inputs (including memory) are completely ignored when VOX is off
> and PTT is not asserted..
>
> 73,
>
> ~iain / N6ML
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>> Mike,
>>
>> I think you mean Keyout rather than PTT -- PTT is an input signal to the 
K3
>> generated by an external device such as a footswitch..
>>
>> The use of TX INH does not prevent the Keyout signal from activating - it
>> should click the relays and start your sequencer. BUT it does prevent RF
>> from being transmitted which will protect your preamps and other things 
that
>> need to be protected during the sequencer time.
>> A typical sequencer will complete its cycle in a few tens of 
milliseconds.
>> If you don't like the Keyout state changing with keying, use semi-break-
in
>> and set the delay to whatever time period you desire to keep the Keyout
>> active between characters, words, etc. - that time will depend on your
>> keying speed..
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>
>> On 8/27/2013 5:44 PM, AD6XY wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Don,
>>>
>>> That doesn't work too well because the PTT signal still bounces up and
>>> down
>>> setting off all the relays. My IC735 used to have a VOX delay which you
>>> could set to something long to prevent that - but unless I missed a menu
I
>>> can't seem to find where you set the CW VOX hang time.
>>>
>>> Mike
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Re: [Elecraft] Feature request - Disable Break In on K3

[Mike Harris]

It would be interesting to learn under what practical circumstances 
someone might offer that the current arrangement is a desired mode.  I 
can't think of any, however, that could just be lack of imagination on 
my part.


Until convinced otherwise my vote is with N6ML.  CW mode, VOX off, no 
PTT = no Key Out.


Regards,

Mike VP8NO

On 27/08/2013 19:19, iain macdonnell - N6ML wrote:

It does seem a bit lame that KEY OUT is activated when the K3 is not
transmitting. Maybe there should be an (optional) mode where the CW
key inputs (including memory) are completely ignored when VOX is off
and PTT is not asserted..

73,

 ~iain / N6ML



On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

Mike,

I think you mean Keyout rather than PTT -- PTT is an input signal to the K3
generated by an external device such as a footswitch..

The use of TX INH does not prevent the Keyout signal from activating - it
should click the relays and start your sequencer.  BUT it does prevent RF
from being transmitted which will protect your preamps and other things that
need to be protected during the sequencer time.
A typical sequencer will complete its cycle in a few tens of milliseconds.
If you don't like the Keyout state changing with keying, use semi-break-in
and set the delay to whatever time period you desire to keep the Keyout
active between characters, words, etc. - that time will depend on your
keying speed..

73,
Don W3FPR


On 8/27/2013 5:44 PM, AD6XY wrote:


Hi Don,

That doesn't work too well because the PTT signal still bounces up and
down
setting off all the relays. My IC735 used to have a VOX delay which you
could set to something long to prevent that - but unless I missed a menu I
can't seem to find where you set the CW VOX hang time.

Mike

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