subject:"Re\: \[Emc\-users\] Olinuxino\/Beagleboard\/bone, Xenomai, SPI\?"

2013/5/30 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com

 5 ns is only one instruction.  Do you think it can read, say, the 3
 signals from 4 encoders
 and keep count, all with only one instruction?  Not possible.  It would
 probably take
 20 -30 instructions for each encoder channel, and possibly quite a bit
 more.
 Assuming one PRU was dedicated to encoders, that would mean sampling the
 encoders at about a 1 MHz rate.  This is still fantastic (if my totally
 off-the cuff
 guess at how many instructions it takes is anywhere near correct) and an
 incredible improvement on reading encoders via the LinuxCNC encoder
 HAL component.  I would not be astonished to find out that it actually
 takes 200 instruction per encoder, reducing the rate to a 4 us sampling
 period.
 Still, not bad at all, and will handle many hobby-level machines.


Talking about encoders, Beaglebone must be good with serial ones.
SPI should not be a problem at all, but what about BISS?
I got a few very nice motors with those encoders, and I'd like to test them
at least.
Anyone knows something about BISS on Beaglebone? (advices on MESA solution
welcome too)

Andrew
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?


Am 30.05.2013 um 09:07 schrieb Andrew parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com:

 Talking about encoders, Beaglebone must be good with serial ones.
 SPI should not be a problem at all, but what about BISS?
 I got a few very nice motors with those encoders, and I'd like to test them
 at least.

can you refer to some reference implementation? 

never heard of it, how widely is that used?

-m

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread Charles Steinkuehler

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 5/29/2013 11:05 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
 Low power should not be a big deal---after all, LinuxCNC is likely
 to drive electric motors rated in kiloWatts.

Low power is important when you put the computer in a sealed box to
keep it from getting sprayed with metal chips and coolant, and you
have no fans to avoid one of the most common parts to fail.

- -- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread jeremy youngs

agreed and any increase in efficiency with no degrade in perfomance is
highly beneficial, also developing this will give us a platform for the
forseeable future. a friend of mine runs a computer recycling facility and
kills at least a hundred desktops a day , they will not be with us forever
, thanx to michael and kent and others whoms name escape me for putting the
time in to develop the appropriate kernels and testing for these boards, i
just wish the manufactureres would give us something with a little bit more
oomph than these bords have . * i am sure though that we will continue to
see very good development in these boards . hopefully the manufacturers
will get to a useable standar for i/o and mainatin an architecture that
will keep us from having to develop every year for new hardware . to me it
seems a though the atom lasted quite a while and a similar bord should be
marketable. but i digress as i know off noone on these lists that is a
manufacturer so i surely must be preaching to the choir :) lol*
*
*


On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:02 AM, Charles Steinkuehler 
char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 5/29/2013 11:05 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
  Low power should not be a big deal---after all, LinuxCNC is likely
  to drive electric motors rated in kiloWatts.

 Low power is important when you put the computer in a sealed box to
 keep it from getting sprayed with metal chips and coolant, and you
 have no fans to avoid one of the most common parts to fail.

 - --
 Charles Steinkuehler
 char...@steinkuehler.net
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

 iEYEARECAAYFAlGnI7sACgkQLywbqEHdNFz/VwCfeUAyJi2u1eW+9XOdLZZ5irUJ
 YPQAoLgOo+6Nk11Zp0MPyxE1AWoFl1hs
 =F94a
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-


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9, 2007



jeremy youngs
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread andy pugh

On 30 May 2013 10:16, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote:

 can you refer to some reference implementation?

http://www.biss-interface.com/files/BiSS_BP1_profile_A4en.pdf

I think there is a Mesa module for them, (but no LinuxCNC driver)
I may even have one, I took a 17-bit multiturn absolute encoder off of
a motor in order to install a resolver recently.
(I don't know if the encoder even works, however)

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

Jeremy,

Am 30.05.2013 um 12:36 schrieb jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com:

  i
 just wish the manufactureres would give us something with a little bit more
 oomph than these bords have . *

there are stronger alternatives

second, and more important: where exactly should that 'oomph' go, and why?

fact is: the realtime part of linuxcnc can run perfectly fine on even the low 
end boards, including the interpreter as we are forced to do now; even more so 
if supported in some way by underlying hardware; I am pretty sure Charles PRU 
stepgen will outperform any soft stepper on a PC eventually, no matter how much 
the operating system is massaged

the drag factor comes in when you run user interfaces like Axis or Gladevcp on 
the very same platform - and as you are forced to, given the current 
architecture - which mandates you run the UI - and pretty fat ones at that - on 
the same CPU as any realtime tasks; in any timings I have taken the UI's have 
been by far the largest consumers of cycles and memory of the whole setup, with 
the notable exception of emcweb (which lacks generalized HAL access though)

Now what is the answer to that question? throwing more 'oomph' at the problem 
is 'more of the same' - but you'd still not able to use alternatives like say 
touchpads or just a web browser to talk to the damn thing

the conclusion 'let's make these embedded boards better PC's so we can continue 
to run LinuxCNC as it forces us to' isnt the one I think which will lead to 
good results in the individual case as well as a prosperous future for the 
project overall - to the contrary I think it is a bit of a doomed strategy like 
tying the project fate to the fate of the desktop PC

for me the conclusion is clear - we need to fix the warts which have crept in 
and revert to a fully distributed setup which enables a more rational 
slice-and-dice of functionality; just as it was in the original design, and 
from which it has decayed into what it is now. A and we better to so quickly, 
not in some years down the road. Any hopes to, say, make inroads into the 3D 
printer community under this angle are just that, I think.

this is also the reason why I do not invest any energy on making the current 
user interfaces perform well on these platforms - the user interfaces shouldnt 
be there to start with, and I take that as an incentive to focus on the effort 
to move them out of the way

--

just to be clear: I'm not at all critisizing you for the desire to have a 
decent platform - everybody does and that wasnt my point; I am just taking your 
note as an opportunity to point to one of the underlying issues to which there 
is more than one answer, and the best one is clearly not business as usual


unfortunately I have the impression this issue is completely off the radar of 
the LinuxCNC developer community, which seems to be largely content to run PC 
boards as long as those are available to run their machines

it might just be the whole effort is mistaken by some to mean 'a LinuxCNC 
desktop, just smaller and cheaper and therefore I dont need to bother' which 
would be missing the bigger picture

- Michael





 i am sure though that we will continue to
 see very good development in these boards . hopefully the manufacturers
 will get to a useable standar for i/o and mainatin an architecture that
 will keep us from having to develop every year for new hardware . to me it
 seems a though the atom lasted quite a while and a similar bord should be
 marketable. but i digress as i know off noone on these lists that is a
 manufacturer so i surely must be preaching to the choir :) lol*
 *
 *
 
 
 On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:02 AM, Charles Steinkuehler 
 char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:
 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 On 5/29/2013 11:05 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
 Low power should not be a big deal---after all, LinuxCNC is likely
 to drive electric motors rated in kiloWatts.
 
 Low power is important when you put the computer in a sealed box to
 keep it from getting sprayed with metal chips and coolant, and you
 have no fans to avoid one of the most common parts to fail.
 
 - --
 Charles Steinkuehler
 char...@steinkuehler.net
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
 
 iEYEARECAAYFAlGnI7sACgkQLywbqEHdNFz/VwCfeUAyJi2u1eW+9XOdLZZ5irUJ
 YPQAoLgOo+6Nk11Zp0MPyxE1AWoFl1hs
 =F94a
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread Dave

On 5/30/2013 8:15 AM, andy pugh wrote:
 On 30 May 2013 10:16, Michael Haberlermai...@mah.priv.at  wrote:


 can you refer to some reference implementation?
  
 http://www.biss-interface.com/files/BiSS_BP1_profile_A4en.pdf

 I think there is a Mesa module for them, (but no LinuxCNC driver)
 I may even have one, I took a 17-bit multiturn absolute encoder off of
 a motor in order to install a resolver recently.
 (I don't know if the encoder even works, however)


BISS and SSI encoders are quite popular for absolute encoders.I have 
used a number of SSI encoders.   BISS is a newer standard.

I have an customer application for an SSI interface (hydraulic 
positioner) and Peter gave me a 7i43 config that will accept the raw SSI 
serial interface but the hostmot2 driver needs to be altered.

I need to look into that but have not had time to do so yet.   I have a 
Balluf linear transducer that has an SSI output on it that I bought to 
complete the interface.

I can bring everything to Wichita if anyone else has some interest in this..

I think this would be a valuable addition to LinuxCNC.

Dave  Cole

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread Eugenio Yime Rodriguez

I think this is off-topic,

but I was thinking in the following configuration for some projects:

- Raspberry PI computer
- A custom made SPI card with 4 DAC and 4 encoder input
 DAC: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/21897a.pdf
 Encoder:
http://www.anaheimautomation.com/products/ics/lsi-csi-item.php?sID=270serID=17pt=itID=159cID=55
- Four analog motor driver, maybe: www.logosolinc.com

I hope some electronics guru encouraged to build the configuration B card,
and its HAL driver.

Thanks,


Eugenio



2013/5/30 Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com

 On 5/30/2013 8:15 AM, andy pugh wrote:
  On 30 May 2013 10:16, Michael Haberlermai...@mah.priv.at  wrote:
 
 
  can you refer to some reference implementation?
 
  http://www.biss-interface.com/files/BiSS_BP1_profile_A4en.pdf
 
  I think there is a Mesa module for them, (but no LinuxCNC driver)
  I may even have one, I took a 17-bit multiturn absolute encoder off of
  a motor in order to install a resolver recently.
  (I don't know if the encoder even works, however)
 
 
 BISS and SSI encoders are quite popular for absolute encoders.I have
 used a number of SSI encoders.   BISS is a newer standard.

 I have an customer application for an SSI interface (hydraulic
 positioner) and Peter gave me a 7i43 config that will accept the raw SSI
 serial interface but the hostmot2 driver needs to be altered.

 I need to look into that but have not had time to do so yet.   I have a
 Balluf linear transducer that has an SSI output on it that I bought to
 complete the interface.

 I can bring everything to Wichita if anyone else has some interest in
 this..

 I think this would be a valuable addition to LinuxCNC.

 Dave  Cole


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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013/5/30 Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at

 can you refer to some reference implementation?

 never heard of it, how widely is that used?


Pretty wide among modern absolute encoders, which are expensive and
therefore not so familiar for hobbyists.

2013/5/30 Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com

 BISS and SSI encoders are quite popular for absolute encoders.I have
 used a number of SSI encoders.   BISS is a newer standard.

 I have an customer application for an SSI interface (hydraulic
 positioner) and Peter gave me a 7i43 config that will accept the raw SSI
 serial interface but the hostmot2 driver needs to be altered.

 I need to look into that but have not had time to do so yet.   I have a
 Balluf linear transducer that has an SSI output on it that I bought to
 complete the interface.

 I can bring everything to Wichita if anyone else has some interest in
 this..

 I think this would be a valuable addition to LinuxCNC.


Absolutely!
LinuxCNC definitely lacks support for modern hardware like SSI and BiSS
absolute encoders, CANopen, EtherCAT drives etc. In fact, step/dir and
+-10V remain the only supported control interfaces for almost 20 years
since EMC was started. It holds the project away from modern industrial
CNC. You can say that those interfaces are not popular amongh LinuxCNC
users. Maybe so, but this is because no one with modern servo drives would
not come to LinuxCNC.

Andrew
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread Eric Keller

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Andrew parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com wrote:
 LinuxCNC definitely lacks support for modern hardware like SSI and BiSS
 absolute encoders, CANopen, EtherCAT drives etc. In fact, step/dir and
 +-10V remain the only supported control interfaces for almost 20 years
 since EMC was started. It holds the project away from modern industrial
 CNC. You can say that those interfaces are not popular amongh LinuxCNC
 users. Maybe so, but this is because no one with modern servo drives would
 not come to LinuxCNC.

Nothing stopping anyone from making any of this stuff work that I can
see.  There isn't a big group of developers sitting around waiting for
jobs to do, that should be obvious.

I am a somewhat disgruntled consumer of so-called modern servo
drives.  My observation from walking around at trade shows is that
the industry doesn't seem to be interested in making devices that are
open enough to control from LinuxCNC.  I have some obsolete drives at
work because the interface is closed source and they got tired of
paying royalties to the real time windows vendors.  Oh, you have
$40k of drives that no longer work?  Plz to be sending money for new,
closed source drives.

I think a lot of +/- 10v drives are still being sold -- for very good
reason.  We have a very precise machine that uses that interface.
Eric

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?


Am 30.05.2013 um 16:46 schrieb Andrew parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com:
 
 
 Absolutely!
 LinuxCNC definitely lacks support for modern hardware like SSI and BiSS
 absolute encoders, CANopen, EtherCAT drives etc. In fact, step/dir and

I agree violently! now go prime your editor and send those patches ;)

as for EtherCAT - read this first, its a license minefield: 
http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2013-May/028597.html

 +-10V remain the only supported control interfaces for almost 20 years
 since EMC was started. It holds the project away from modern industrial
 CNC. You can say that those interfaces are not popular amongh LinuxCNC
 users. Maybe so, but this is because no one with modern servo drives would
 not come to LinuxCNC.
 
 Andrew
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread Peter C. Wallace

On Thu, 30 May 2013, Andrew wrote:

 Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:46:32 +0300
 From: Andrew parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

 2013/5/30 Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at

 can you refer to some reference implementation?

 never heard of it, how widely is that used?

 Pretty wide among modern absolute encoders, which are expensive and
 therefore not so familiar for hobbyists.

 2013/5/30 Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com

 BISS and SSI encoders are quite popular for absolute encoders.I have
 used a number of SSI encoders.   BISS is a newer standard.

 I have an customer application for an SSI interface (hydraulic
 positioner) and Peter gave me a 7i43 config that will accept the raw SSI
 serial interface but the hostmot2 driver needs to be altered.

 I need to look into that but have not had time to do so yet.   I have a
 Balluf linear transducer that has an SSI output on it that I bought to
 complete the interface.

 I can bring everything to Wichita if anyone else has some interest in
 this..

 I think this would be a valuable addition to LinuxCNC.

Theres also a untested BISS interface in HostMot2. I suspect multi-channel 
BISS would be hard to implement well in the PRU because of the deskew 
requirement.

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread Jon Elson

Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
 Low power is important when you put the computer in a sealed box to
 keep it from getting sprayed with metal chips and coolant, and you
 have no fans to avoid one of the most common parts to fail.
   
You can also get completely fan-less systems with the Intel D525MW and later
Atom boards.  I have built a number of D510 and D525 systems at work
in 7 cube cabinets with fanless power supplies.  The Atom chip has a
big heat sink on it and gets a temperature rise of maybe 10C tops,
even with the cabinet closed.  Put a solid state disk in it too, for lower
power and resistance to vibration and dirt.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread jeremy youngs

My thoughts Michael ,
and this is not a strong point of mine so forgive technical ignorance
please.
I think a dual core to handle realtime on one and all other processes would
be wonderful 1.5 or better ghz and iIthink ram is lacking in the bone and
rpi . something like 4 gig would give us a great platform to network a shop
and have adequate response time . Better video processing to help solve the
gui issues and last more i/o for industrial applications , preferably
running on fpga and modular like the mesa cards . Ultimately Michael i
think they are exciting times and Moores law will eventually help us out .
I see your point I think about fixing the warts, ( i have to admit that you
have far more knowledge here than i do ) but yes the gui is agreed to be a
resource hog and in the desktop we can plug in video cards to help. I am
not certain the bbb or rpi have any upgrade able video interfaces. As a
mastercam user I really do not need the axis gui and simply have not worked
with my machine long enough to try others but I should think that the less
graphical ones are going to use far less resources. I am trying to bring my
machine up to a mechanical level that will justify more hardware and
software experimentation . But this project gets addressed when time and
money and lately health ( surgery on tues ) allow . I would like to get
this thing functioning on a production level in a yr. the dell i have
running it will be capable but something i could integrate into the column
would be great. I am in no rush as money will not currently allow a bbb 
upgrade  and i would also want to be assured that it would in fact be an
upgrade. But concession needs to be made to the fact that pc s will not be
around in 5 yrs . so i have to say I appreciate all of the communities
effort moving forward on these issues and the porting to these platforms is
at least showing that we are not standing still. Now the question I have is
what are the other alternatives (with more power ) and what is the status
of porting lcnc to them and where would we stand on the issues you and i
have been discussing . And further i am just a user right now that uses his
machine twice a month or so and Im not desperate for these solutions . iIam
just keeping my ear to the rail so when it is time to leap I will know how
high . Thanx for the input , and thanks to  all for the time, wow i think i
have said enough :)


On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.atwrote:

 Jeremy,

 Am 30.05.2013 um 12:36 schrieb jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com:

   i
  just wish the manufactureres would give us something with a little bit
 more
  oomph than these bords have . *

 there are stronger alternatives

 second, and more important: where exactly should that 'oomph' go, and why?

 fact is: the realtime part of linuxcnc can run perfectly fine on even the
 low end boards, including the interpreter as we are forced to do now; even
 more so if supported in some way by underlying hardware; I am pretty sure
 Charles PRU stepgen will outperform any soft stepper on a PC eventually, no
 matter how much the operating system is massaged

 the drag factor comes in when you run user interfaces like Axis or
 Gladevcp on the very same platform - and as you are forced to, given the
 current architecture - which mandates you run the UI - and pretty fat ones
 at that - on the same CPU as any realtime tasks; in any timings I have
 taken the UI's have been by far the largest consumers of cycles and memory
 of the whole setup, with the notable exception of emcweb (which lacks
 generalized HAL access though)

 Now what is the answer to that question? throwing more 'oomph' at the
 problem is 'more of the same' - but you'd still not able to use
 alternatives like say touchpads or just a web browser to talk to the damn
 thing

 the conclusion 'let's make these embedded boards better PC's so we can
 continue to run LinuxCNC as it forces us to' isnt the one I think which
 will lead to good results in the individual case as well as a prosperous
 future for the project overall - to the contrary I think it is a bit of a
 doomed strategy like tying the project fate to the fate of the desktop PC

 for me the conclusion is clear - we need to fix the warts which have crept
 in and revert to a fully distributed setup which enables a more rational
 slice-and-dice of functionality; just as it was in the original design, and
 from which it has decayed into what it is now. A and we better to so
 quickly, not in some years down the road. Any hopes to, say, make inroads
 into the 3D printer community under this angle are just that, I think.

 this is also the reason why I do not invest any energy on making the
 current user interfaces perform well on these platforms - the user
 interfaces shouldnt be there to start with, and I take that as an incentive
 to focus on the effort to move them out of the way

 --

 just to be clear: I'm not at all critisizing you for the desire

Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013/5/30 Eric Keller
eekel...@psu.eduhttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?view=cmfs=1tf=1to=eekel...@psu.edu


 Nothing stopping anyone from making any of this stuff work that I can
 see.  There isn't a big group of developers sitting around waiting for
 jobs to do, that should be obvious.


2013/5/30 Michael Haberler
mai...@mah.priv.athttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?view=cmfs=1tf=1to=mai...@mah.priv.at


 I agree violently! now go prime your editor and send those patches ;)

 I meant no demands, of course. Just saying from not-so-advanced end user
side.
Last time I wish too often that I could do programming. Is it too late to
learn in late 30s?


 as for EtherCAT - read this first, its a license minefield:
 http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2013-May/028597.html


Everywhere they say open EtherCAT. But looks like producing something
with EtherCAT requires licensing.

Well, EtherCAT and CANopen support might be secondary because of really
expensive hardware.
But support for serial absolute encoders looks very reasonable. No
complicated gantry homing, no rotor homing for BLDC component with 7i39 or
similar hardware.

2013/5/30 Eric Keller
eekel...@psu.eduhttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?view=cmfs=1tf=1to=eekel...@psu.edu


 I am a somewhat disgruntled consumer of so-called modern servo
 drives.  My observation from walking around at trade shows is that
 the industry doesn't seem to be interested in making devices that are
 open enough to control from LinuxCNC.  I have some obsolete drives at
 work because the interface is closed source and they got tired of
 paying royalties to the real time windows vendors.  Oh, you have
 $40k of drives that no longer work?  Plz to be sending money for new,
 closed source drives.


That's the problem. For example, I should give up on some Mechatrolink
drives which otherwise would be great.


 I think a lot of +/- 10v drives are still being sold -- for very good
 reason.  We have a very precise machine that uses that interface.


Can not but agree here.

2013/5/30 Peter C. Wallace
p...@mesanet.comhttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?view=cmfs=1tf=1to=p...@mesanet.com


 Theres also a untested BISS interface in HostMot2.


Then I better start MESAing with 5i25 + 7i77 or 7i76 when I get it. I guess
7i43 is useless for BiSS?

Andrew
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread Eric Keller

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote:
 as for EtherCAT - read this first, its a license minefield: 
 http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2013-May/028597.html

We went through this agonizing process with open source licenses a
while back.  Since that was a basic architecture question, that had to
be done.  In the case of a hal component that uses some badly licensed
interface, I have always wondered if there was a way to do avoid
tainting linuxcnc by having an external interface that allows tainted
components.
Eric

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread jeremy youngs

 We went through this agonizing process with open source licenses a
while back.

yes we did I seem to recall a few weeks of banter about it . where does one
find information to guide himself in thes directions . I wish to cure my
ignorance of these things so as to be able to be a more productive group
member.
thanx


On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Eric Keller eekel...@psu.edu wrote:

 On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at
 wrote:
  as for EtherCAT - read this first, its a license minefield:
 http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2013-May/028597.html

 We went through this agonizing process with open source licenses a
 while back.  Since that was a basic architecture question, that had to
 be done.  In the case of a hal component that uses some badly licensed
 interface, I have always wondered if there was a way to do avoid
 tainting linuxcnc by having an external interface that allows tainted
 components.
 Eric


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-- 
We conclude that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep
and bear arms. That right existed prior to the formation of the new
government under the Constitution and was premised on the private use of
arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being
understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations
of a tyrannical government. - U.S. Court of Appeals, D.C. Circuit, March
9, 2007



jeremy youngs
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread andy pugh

On 30 May 2013 18:22, Andrew parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com wrote:

 Last time I wish too often that I could do programming. Is it too late to
 learn in late 30s?

Probably not. You might even enjoy the process.

 Then I better start MESAing with 5i25 + 7i77 or 7i76 when I get it. I guess
 7i43 is useless for BiSS?

No reason it wouldn't work just as well on the 7i43 as on any other Mesa card.

-- 
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013/5/30 andy pugh
bodge...@gmail.comhttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?view=cmfs=1tf=1to=bodge...@gmail.com


 On 30 May 2013 18:22, Andrew 
 parallel.kinemat...@gmail.comhttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?view=cmfs=1tf=1to=parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Last time I wish too often that I could do programming. Is it too late to
  learn in late 30s?

 Probably not. You might even enjoy the process.

 Otherwise it's not worth trying.

 Then I better start MESAing with 5i25 + 7i77 or 7i76 when I get it. I
 guess
  7i43 is useless for BiSS?

 No reason it wouldn't work just as well on the 7i43 as on any other Mesa
 card.


OK, then I guess I should start from compiling MESA firmware.
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread andy pugh

On 30 May 2013 19:19, Andrew parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com wrote:

 No reason it wouldn't work just as well on the 7i43 as on any other Mesa
 card.

 OK, then I guess I should start from compiling MESA firmware.

That's probably quite a hard place to start, and I guess that Pete
might already have a suitable firmware.

About 3 years ago I decided to learn C to work on the 3-phase PWM
component of Hostmot2.

-- 
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If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread Nikolaus Klepp

Am Donnerstag, 30. Mai 2013 schrieb Eric Keller:
 On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at 
wrote:
  as for EtherCAT - read this first, its a license minefield:
  http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2013-May/028597.html

 We went through this agonizing process with open source licenses a
 while back.  Since that was a basic architecture question, that had to
 be done.  In the case of a hal component that uses some badly licensed
 interface, I have always wondered if there was a way to do avoid
 tainting linuxcnc by having an external interface that allows tainted
 components.

Please forgive me my ignorance, but why would you want to licence EterCAT at 
all? You would not be able to sell/advertise your product under the 
name/brand EterCAT, but that would be all. Or is this a US speciality to 
get licensing problems when you did not sign a licensing contract that gives 
you that licensing problems in the first place?

Nik

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread Robert Shell

Ok folks..   Here is where I am at.. If you want to read the entire thing 
great, but the bottom line, I need SPEED.. What I have tried so far has 
failed.. 

 I am sure there is a easy solution, or at least a doable solution for what I 
am trying to do. This maybe a bit long winded but here goes.

Many, many moons ago.. I used to do some consulting work with Shopbot tools. 
Since then I have been consulting/working in around CNC machines. I have worked 
with/played with many CNC apps.. EMC2, TurboCNC, Shopbot DOS and Windows 
versions, MACH 2, MACH 3 etc.. even played with creating my own stepgen 
apps/code snippets etc via several different languages using the LPT port on a 
regular PC.. so forth and so on, all with great success..  So I have experience 
with many different stepgen applications. 

All of the above is great experiences..

Now for the rest of the story.. My brother owns a small haunted house and it is 
currently growing.. For the last few years he has been using the small micro 
controllers such as PICAXE, Arduino for automation etc... Nice for what he is 
doing when it comes to small props like break beams, switched inputs, floor mat 
switches, turning on fog machine or light etc etc etc.. yadda yadda..  This 
year he comes to me with a project that requires a bit more muscle... Of 
course, I said YES.. I will do it..

This project is basically a small, crude 2 axis CNC machine... Easy enough, 
right? Sure... So I pulled out a pic 18m2 off of the shelf, a stepper motor, 
stepper motor driver, wired it all up.. and we were off to the races.. motor 
spun to the right, to the left as expected... I figured at this point, a few 
trips to the hardware store to pick up some goodies to build the x rails and 
the y gantry and we would be in business...

Then there comes the issues.. Using a 1.8 degree stepper motor, 18 M2 chip , 
the fasted I could turn ONE motor was around 20 to 30 times a minute let alone 
try to enter in a second motor in the equation. ..  ugh..  the math works out 
to be 90 to 100hz... 

So.. Along comes along the Raspberry Pi.. I said, oh yeah.. this will work.. 
Well.. needless to say but.. after many hours of playing around to get the 
GPIO's to produce faster results was NIL


Need a Solution..

I am guessing at this part.. I need to use some additional processing power.. 
Using SPI I guess to off load the signal generation and counting off to another 
process looks like my best bet???  I mean.. I can get many, many gadgets or 
chips or what ever to generate the pulses for me but.. I need to keep track of 
where in the heck the machine is..  

I thought of having something generate the steps and I add encoders to the 
machine but.. Heck if I can not generate the steps.. I am not even sure I can 
read the pulses from the encoder fast enough... 

Some additional information.. the machine does not have to be very accurate.. 
even if I am with in 1/50th of an Inch or so.. I am golden. 

I hope there is a fairly cheap solution out there..

Thanks

Robert I. ShellLead Technical Specialist / Senior Software EngineerGlobal 
Transaction Services / Fund ServicesCiti Group - Columbus OhioCell: (740) 
972-1085

 From: bodge...@gmail.com
 Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 20:05:05 +0100
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?
 
 On 30 May 2013 19:19, Andrew parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  No reason it wouldn't work just as well on the 7i43 as on any other Mesa
  card.
 
  OK, then I guess I should start from compiling MESA firmware.
 
 That's probably quite a hard place to start, and I guess that Pete
 might already have a suitable firmware.
 
 About 3 years ago I decided to learn C to work on the 3-phase PWM
 component of Hostmot2.
 
 -- 
 atp
 If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
 http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
 
 --
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?


Am 30.05.2013 um 19:22 schrieb Andrew parallel.kinemat...@gmail.com:

 I agree violently! now go prime your editor and send those patches ;)
 
 I meant no demands, of course. Just saying from not-so-advanced end user
 side.
 Last time I wish too often that I could do programming. Is it too late to
 learn in late 30s?

30ies..sweet. may you leave home unsupervised already ;-?

not good enough for draft evasion - I'm 56, taught myself Python and C++ over 
the last years or so

(a likely followup by certain inmates will be and it shows ;-)

-m



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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread Eric Keller

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote:


 (a likely followup by certain inmates will be and it shows ;-)

or as a long-gone EMC contributor told me, I've seen your code

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-30 Thread Gene Heskett

On Thursday 30 May 2013 20:32:49 Andrew did opine:

 2013/5/30 Eric Keller
 eekel...@psu.eduhttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?view=cmfs=1tf=1to
 =eekel...@psu.edu
 
  Nothing stopping anyone from making any of this stuff work that I can
  see.  There isn't a big group of developers sitting around waiting for
  jobs to do, that should be obvious.
 
 2013/5/30 Michael Haberler
 mai...@mah.priv.athttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?view=cmfs=1tf=1;
 to=mai...@mah.priv.at
 
  I agree violently! now go prime your editor and send those patches ;)
  
  I meant no demands, of course. Just saying from not-so-advanced end
  user
 
 side.
 Last time I wish too often that I could do programming. Is it too late
 to learn in late 30s?

Not no, but hell no Andrew.  I saw my first micro cpu, an RCA 1802, in the 
spring  of '80 when I was 46.  And at 78 now, I still hack away at both 
gcode, hal files, and 68(3)09 assembly that runs on a TRS-80 Color Computer 
3.

You are a veritable spring chicken at 30. If you have the time to study, 
the need to know how is a very strong incentive.

  as for EtherCAT - read this first, its a license minefield:
  http://www.xenomai.org/pipermail/xenomai/2013-May/028597.html

Scary.  Contagious too.  Could make you hire several very expensive lawyers 
even.
 
 Everywhere they say open EtherCAT. But looks like producing something
 with EtherCAT requires licensing.
 
 Well, EtherCAT and CANopen support might be secondary because of really
 expensive hardware.
 But support for serial absolute encoders looks very reasonable. No
 complicated gantry homing, no rotor homing for BLDC component with 7i39
 or similar hardware.
 
 2013/5/30 Eric Keller
 eekel...@psu.eduhttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?view=cmfs=1tf=1to
 =eekel...@psu.edu
 
  I am a somewhat disgruntled consumer of so-called modern servo
  drives.  My observation from walking around at trade shows is that
  the industry doesn't seem to be interested in making devices that are
  open enough to control from LinuxCNC.  I have some obsolete drives at
  work because the interface is closed source and they got tired of
  paying royalties to the real time windows vendors.  Oh, you have
  $40k of drives that no longer work?  Plz to be sending money for new,
  closed source drives.

Like thats going to happen, but not from this user.
 
 That's the problem. For example, I should give up on some Mechatrolink
 drives which otherwise would be great.
 
  I think a lot of +/- 10v drives are still being sold -- for very good
  reason.  We have a very precise machine that uses that interface.
 
 Can not but agree here.
 
 2013/5/30 Peter C. Wallace
 p...@mesanet.comhttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?view=cmfs=1tf=1to=
 p...@mesanet.com
 
  Theres also a untested BISS interface in HostMot2.
 
 Then I better start MESAing with 5i25 + 7i77 or 7i76 when I get it. I
 guess 7i43 is useless for BiSS?
 
 Andrew
 
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Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-29 Thread Charles Steinkuehler

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 5/28/2013 11:11 PM, Michael Haberler wrote:
 Eric,
 
 Am 29.05.2013 um 00:37 schrieb Eric Keller eekel...@psu.edu:
 
 note that we're not restricted to x86 and ARM; Xenomai builds on 
 Blackfins and ppc as well and then some, and RT-PREEMPT on likely
 an even wider range.

I would also like to point out we are not limited to low-end hardware
for experiments.  I am targeting the BeagleBone primarily because of
my focus on 3D printers.

IHMO, one viable platform investigation would be a mid to high powered
ARM core with PCIe and a Mesa board.  Assuming one can find a board
that already has a working Xenomai kernel among the myriad available
choices, Hostmot2 on PCIe on Xenomai on ARM should just work.

But it would still be awesome to actually see it run.  :)

- -- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-29 Thread Andrew

2013/5/29 Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.nethttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?view=cmfs=1tf=1to=char...@steinkuehler.net

I would also like to point out we are not limited to low-end hardware
for experiments. I am targeting the BeagleBone primarily because of
my focus on 3D printers.

IHMO, one viable platform investigation would be a mid to high powered
ARM core with PCIe and a Mesa board. Assuming one can find a board
that already has a working Xenomai kernel among the myriad available
choices, Hostmot2 on PCIe on Xenomai on ARM should just work.

But it would still be awesome to actually see it run. :)

It sure would be fun, though using $45 BBB with $250 MESA boards set (say
5i25 7i77) looks not so reasonable.
Based on the recent discussions on the list I hope that PRU's could replace
FPGA in some way. While FPGA remains much more universal solution.

I'm building Rostock-like device which I intend to use for both small
milling/engraving and 3D printing. And I have Beaglebone Black.
So I'll be glad to participate in testing and whatever comes about BBB and
LinuxCNC.
Particularly I like the idea of 3D printing with LinuxCNC.

Best regards,
Andrew
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-29 Thread Charles Steinkuehler

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 5/29/2013 5:59 AM, Andrew wrote:
 2013/5/29 Charles Steinkuehler 
 char...@steinkuehler.nethttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?view=cmfs=1tf=1to=char...@steinkuehler.net


 
 I would also like to point out we are not limited to low-end
 hardware for experiments.  I am targeting the BeagleBone
 primarily because of my focus on 3D printers.
 
 IHMO, one viable platform investigation would be a mid to high
 powered ARM core with PCIe and a Mesa board.  Assuming one can
 find a board that already has a working Xenomai kernel among the
 myriad available choices, Hostmot2 on PCIe on Xenomai on ARM
 should just work.
 
 But it would still be awesome to actually see it run.  :)
 
 
 It sure would be fun, though using $45 BBB with $250 MESA boards
 set (say 5i25  7i77) looks not so reasonable. Based on the recent
 discussions on the list I hope that PRU's could replace FPGA in
 some way. While FPGA remains much more universal solution.

The PRU can do a great job with step/dir generation.  Anything that
has encoders should really be running with FPGA hardware and something
like the Mesa boards.

I was just trying to point out that ARM parts and boards are available
that more directly compete with the traditional Atom motherboards
currently popular here (including conventional PCI/PCIe expansion slots!).

IMHO, the 'Bone makes a good low-end solution for things like 3D
printers, while ARM + Mesa boards can compete against the Atom
motherboards in the more traditional LinuxCNC space.  And while
there's not as much need to migrate away from x86 at the upper end,
factors such as power consumption and cooling could make the ARM parts
attractive vs. x86.

 I'm building Rostock-like device which I intend to use for both
 small milling/engraving and 3D printing. And I have Beaglebone
 Black. So I'll be glad to participate in testing and whatever comes
 about BBB and LinuxCNC. Particularly I like the idea of 3D printing
 with LinuxCNC.

...that's where I'm headed, it's just taking a while to get there.  :)

- -- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-29 Thread Przemek Klosowski

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Charles Steinkuehler 
char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:

 The PRU can do a great job with step/dir generation.  Anything that
 has encoders should really be running with FPGA hardware and something
 like the Mesa boards.


Why do you  say so? PRU is running at 200MHz and can read and write GPIO
every 5ns. I think that's close to what the FPGA is capable of. Of course
FPGA can then process these in  parallel using independent hardware units,
but still.


 I was just trying to point out that ARM parts and boards are available
 that more directly compete with the traditional Atom motherboards
 currently popular here (including conventional PCI/PCIe expansion slots!).


As far as I can see, PCI/PCIe is the only differentiating factor, unless
you imply that Atom-class means better quality, or better noise immunity
etc. Low power should not be a big deal---after all, LinuxCNC is likely to
drive electric motors rated in kiloWatts.
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-29 Thread Michael Haberler

Hi Przemek,

Am 30.05.2013 um 06:05 schrieb Przemek Klosowski przemek.klosow...@gmail.com:

 On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Charles Steinkuehler 
 char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:
 
 The PRU can do a great job with step/dir generation.  Anything that
 has encoders should really be running with FPGA hardware and something
 like the Mesa boards.
 
 
 Why do you  say so? PRU is running at 200MHz and can read and write GPIO
 every 5ns. I think that's close to what the FPGA is capable of. Of course
 FPGA can then process these in  parallel using independent hardware units,
 but still.

The 5ns is 'on paper'; since there's more involved than a CPU cycle - the bit 
takes a bit of time to work through to/from the pin , the actual figures are 
slower

Charles has done the mother of all homework on this, see here: 
http://tinyurl.com/oql9uqo (from what I've seen so far, that's the most 
thorough assessment of PRU I/O timing outside of TI ;)

that said, I still think encoder inputs are entirely possible with higher rates 
than the soft encoder; not that I think this will be the prevalent scenario for 
the BB's

as for FPGA-based I/O, the floodgates for all sorts of combinations are open at 
the low end as well:

http://tinyurl.com/pm524v7
http://specialcomp.com/beaglebone/BeagleBone_FPGA.html
http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/embedded/bcc/index.html

-m

 
 
 I was just trying to point out that ARM parts and boards are available
 that more directly compete with the traditional Atom motherboards
 currently popular here (including conventional PCI/PCIe expansion slots!).
 
 
 As far as I can see, PCI/PCIe is the only differentiating factor, unless
 you imply that Atom-class means better quality, or better noise immunity
 etc. Low power should not be a big deal---after all, LinuxCNC is likely to
 drive electric motors rated in kiloWatts.
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-29 Thread Przemek Klosowski

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:24 AM, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.atwrote:

 The 5ns is 'on paper'; since there's more involved than a CPU cycle - the
 bit takes a bit of time to work through to/from the pin , the actual
 figures are slower

 Charles has done the mother of all homework on this, see here:
 http://tinyurl.com/oql9uqo (from what I've seen so far, that's the most
 thorough assessment of PRU I/O timing outside of TI ;)


Thank you for the lesson---it's a good pain when one's ignorance gets
smacked and this group is well staffed for such treatment :)
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-29 Thread Jon Elson

Przemek Klosowski wrote:
 On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Charles Steinkuehler 
 char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:

   
 The PRU can do a great job with step/dir generation.  Anything that
 has encoders should really be running with FPGA hardware and something
 like the Mesa boards.

 

 Why do you  say so? PRU is running at 200MHz and can read and write GPIO
 every 5ns. I think that's close to what the FPGA is capable of. Of course
 FPGA can then process these in  parallel using independent hardware units,
 but still.

   
5 ns is only one instruction.  Do you think it can read, say, the 3 
signals from 4 encoders
and keep count, all with only one instruction?  Not possible.  It would 
probably take
20 -30 instructions for each encoder channel, and possibly quite a bit more.
Assuming one PRU was dedicated to encoders, that would mean sampling the
encoders at about a 1 MHz rate.  This is still fantastic (if my totally 
off-the cuff
guess at how many instructions it takes is anywhere near correct) and an
incredible improvement on reading encoders via the LinuxCNC encoder
HAL component.  I would not be astonished to find out that it actually
takes 200 instruction per encoder, reducing the rate to a 4 us sampling 
period.
Still, not bad at all, and will handle many hobby-level machines.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

Hi Anders,

on the Beaglebone status:

I had prepared an SD image with a 3.2.21 xenomai kernel; literally hours after 
it was out it became apparent there is a fatal bug in the 3.2.21 xenomai patch 
and it will be retracted

by now I do have a working xenomai kernel based on 3.8.13; however the 3.8 
series is a big leap from 3.2 as far as ARN device suppport goes so Charles, 
Ian, Kent and myself are still figuring how to make device tree work for us 
under the boundary condition that we understand why it does or doesnt

that said, the only remaining issue is the usage of the PRU under 3.8.13; I 
need to fix some minor breakage in the userland PRU support, just work; as 
soon as that verifies to work, I'll update the SD image

if you can get along without the PRU code for a few days, the kernels (vanilla 
and xenomai) are here: 
http://static.mah.priv.at/public/beaglebone/starterkit/deploy

Am 28.05.2013 um 08:49 schrieb Anders Wallin anders.e.e.wal...@gmail.com:

 Hi all,
 
 What is the status on small single-board computers like Olinuxino and/or
 BeagleBoard/Bone wrt. Xenomai and LinuxCNC/HAL?
 
 In particular I am looking for a solution with:
 - Xenomai + HAL for real-time PID loops with 1ms thread

that should work fine

 - SPI + GPIO for communication with custom made ADC and DAC boards (HAL
 driver available?)

there is a hal_bb_gpio driver by Ian which I verified to work; I havent seen a 
full configuration both with Charles stepgen and this driver, but I dont expect 
any major problems

as for SPI, there's nothing stock for the BB and LinuxCNC, but the picnc HAL 
driver for the Raspberry would be a good starting point; at the end it's just 
memory-mapped register fiddling and that isnt fundamentally different between 
boards or peripherals for that matter

so GPIO: yes, SPI: a bit of work required

 - Small screen or touch-screen for status display

the BB white supports various LCD capes I have no experience with
the BB black has an HDMI output ontop and I understand the Angstrom image 
supports gnome; however I have rested attempts to build LinuxCNC on the 
Angstrom image because just too many packages were missing; it should be 
possible though
I use Debian wheezy, but I havent explored how to get a X server running on the 
BB black; likely there is

note emcweb is a low-resource use UI, and already in my repo, so a web UI is an 
option too

 - SD-card for datalogging, Ethernet for long-term datalogging to database

well it runs off an SD card root filesystem to start with, and Ethernet is in 
place so yes

 
 So far the most affordable solution seems to be Olinuxino:
 https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A13/

the BB black sells for $45/€45

I would think the total cost should bear in mind peripherals and your own work 
a bit, for instance the minor detail of an actually existing and working RT 
kernel for a given board; I dont know what the Olinuxino story is these days, 
but there are a lot of 'great deals' out there which will make superb doorstops 
as far as LinuxCNC is concerned

- Michael

 
 comments? suggestions?
 
 Anders
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-28 Thread Kent A. Reed

On 5/28/2013 3:50 AM, Michael Haberler wrote:
 well it runs off an SD card root filesystem to start with, and Ethernet is in 
 place so yes

Since Anders mentioned datalogging...

I think I would use the USB port for the purpose because the Beaglebones 
employ microSD cards, not SD cards. Maybe it's just me but the SD 
card/socket seem marginally more robust for frequent changeouts.

As an aside, in its current state, the O/S + LinuxCNC are too big to fit 
into the Beaglebone Black's internal storage so at least some of the 
microSD card capacity is needed for the system itself. I know Michael 
has thought about paring down the size requirement by getting rid of 
desktop dross but I don't think he's done the exercise yet (nudge nudge 
wink wink).

Regards,
Kent



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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?


Am 28.05.2013 um 16:35 schrieb Kent A. Reed kentallanr...@gmail.com:

 On 5/28/2013 3:50 AM, Michael Haberler wrote:
 well it runs off an SD card root filesystem to start with, and Ethernet is 
 in place so yes
 
 Since Anders mentioned datalogging...
 
 I think I would use the USB port for the purpose because the Beaglebones 
 employ microSD cards, not SD cards. Maybe it's just me but the SD 
 card/socket seem marginally more robust for frequent changeouts.
 
 As an aside, in its current state, the O/S + LinuxCNC are too big to fit 
 into the Beaglebone Black's internal storage so at least some of the 
 microSD card capacity is needed for the system itself. I know Michael 
 has thought about paring down the size requirement by getting rid of 
 desktop dross but I don't think he's done the exercise yet (nudge nudge 
 wink wink).

I have tried, but getting the image below 2GB requires IMO a bit too many 
functional compromises, at least using wheezy as a base, and under the 
assumption that a full development system and deep git clone is retained

also I think the idea of ramming a _development_ environment onto the builtin 
flash is an idea of limited usefulness to start with

what would make sense is to export a _production_ environment onto the builtin 
flash once done with the development builds; that surely can be done within the 
confines of 2GB

for that effort I happily defer to the BeagleBone LinuCNC volunteer force ;)

- Michael

 Regards,
 Kent
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-28 Thread W. Martinjak

In spite of myself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ona-RhLfRfc

;)

On 2013-05-28 16:35, Kent A. Reed wrote:
 On 5/28/2013 3:50 AM, Michael Haberler wrote:
 well it runs off an SD card root filesystem to start with, and Ethernet is 
 in place so yes
 Since Anders mentioned datalogging...

 I think I would use the USB port for the purpose because the Beaglebones
 employ microSD cards, not SD cards. Maybe it's just me but the SD
 card/socket seem marginally more robust for frequent changeouts.

 As an aside, in its current state, the O/S + LinuxCNC are too big to fit
 into the Beaglebone Black's internal storage so at least some of the
 microSD card capacity is needed for the system itself. I know Michael
 has thought about paring down the size requirement by getting rid of
 desktop dross but I don't think he's done the exercise yet (nudge nudge
 wink wink).

 Regards,
 Kent



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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-28 Thread Sebastian Kuzminsky

On 5/28/13 09:43 , Michael Haberler wrote:

 Am 28.05.2013 um 16:35 schrieb Kent A. Reed kentallanr...@gmail.com:

 As an aside, in its current state, the O/S + LinuxCNC are too big to fit
 into the Beaglebone Black's internal storage so at least some of the
 microSD card capacity is needed for the system itself. I know Michael
 has thought about paring down the size requirement by getting rid of
 desktop dross but I don't think he's done the exercise yet (nudge nudge
 wink wink).

 I have tried, but getting the image below 2GB requires IMO a bit too many 
 functional compromises, at least using wheezy as a base, and under the 
 assumption that a full development system and deep git clone is retained

 also I think the idea of ramming a _development_ environment onto the builtin 
 flash is an idea of limited usefulness to start with

 what would make sense is to export a _production_ environment onto the 
 builtin flash once done with the development builds; that surely can be done 
 within the confines of 2GB

 for that effort I happily defer to the BeagleBone LinuCNC volunteer force ;)

I'd be happy to help with this.  Any thoughts on what/when you want 
merge with the mainline of LinuxCNC?


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-28 Thread Gregg Eshelman

--- On Tue, 5/28/13, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote:

 what would make sense is to export a _production_
 environment onto the builtin flash once done with the
 development builds; that surely can be done within the
 confines of 2GB

With everything configured for a specific machine, all functioning just right, 
don'ttouchityou'llbreakit.



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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-28 Thread Eric Keller

On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com wrote:

 I'd be happy to help with this.  Any thoughts on what/when you want
 merge with the mainline of LinuxCNC?

I would also like to help.  I need to test the old toolkit to see what
is happening with that.

I keep hoping to hear of some break out board replacement for the BBB
because it would probably be useful to have a target to aim for.
Eric

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-28 Thread Charles Steinkuehler

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 5/28/2013 5:37 PM, Eric Keller wrote:
 I keep hoping to hear of some break out board replacement for the
 BBB because it would probably be useful to have a target to aim
 for. Eric

What sort of break-out board are you wanting to see?

I am looking to use the BeBoPr and/or Replicape boards because I want
to interface to my 3D printer (so I need small-ish stepper drivers and
analog inputs for the thermistors).  If you're just looking to
replicate a parallel port on the 'Bone, that could be done with some
wires, or a few TTL-like buffer chips if you want to keep your 'Bone safe.

I've been considering whipping up something (schematic or circuit
board) if it would be helpful, but I'm not sure who has interest in
using the 'Bone for something that _isn't_ a 3D printer.

- -- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-28 Thread Eric Keller

On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:

 What sort of break-out board are you wanting to see?

Charles,
Basically I just want a printer port output.  I have thought of just
getting one of the proto board capes, but it seems like a BOB
interface would be pretty widely used.  I think you could run a
minimalist 3 axis machine including the gui with a BBB.  I have a
Shapeoko which would be a great application of a BBB.

I hate to admit I don't know how many gpio pins there are available,
but I suspect it's more than one BOB worth even with HDMI.  Can anyone
verify that?
Eric

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-28 Thread Ralph Stirling

Very high on my priority list for this summer is a
good BBB breakout board.  I will be designing for
industrial 24v I/O with opto isolation, and may
include mosfet h-bridges for driving stepper or
servo motors from the TPU's.  I haven't started
studying the BBB yet to come up with an appropriate
design.

-- Ralph

From: Eric Keller [eekel...@psu.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:01 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:

 What sort of break-out board are you wanting to see?

Charles,
Basically I just want a printer port output.  I have thought of just
getting one of the proto board capes, but it seems like a BOB
interface would be pretty widely used.  I think you could run a
minimalist 3 axis machine including the gui with a BBB.  I have a
Shapeoko which would be a great application of a BBB.

I hate to admit I don't know how many gpio pins there are available,
but I suspect it's more than one BOB worth even with HDMI.  Can anyone
verify that?
Eric

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-28 Thread andy pugh

On 28 May 2013 23:45, Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:

 I've been considering whipping up something (schematic or circuit
 board) if it would be helpful, but I'm not sure who has interest in
 using the 'Bone for something that _isn't_ a 3D printer.

Not quite the same thing, but I just ordered a batch of PCBs to
convert RPi IO to 5V.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/IJuvikJNkFbFtG-35Sv_qNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

2013-05-28 Thread Kent A. Reed

On 5/28/2013 11:43 AM, Michael Haberler wrote:
 Am 28.05.2013 um 16:35 schrieb Kent A. Reed kentallanr...@gmail.com:

 On 5/28/2013 3:50 AM, Michael Haberler wrote:
 well it runs off an SD card root filesystem to start with, and Ethernet is 
 in place so yes
 Since Anders mentioned datalogging...

 I think I would use the USB port for the purpose because the Beaglebones
 employ microSD cards, not SD cards. Maybe it's just me but the SD
 card/socket seem marginally more robust for frequent changeouts.

 As an aside, in its current state, the O/S + LinuxCNC are too big to fit
 into the Beaglebone Black's internal storage so at least some of the
 microSD card capacity is needed for the system itself. I know Michael
 has thought about paring down the size requirement by getting rid of
 desktop dross but I don't think he's done the exercise yet (nudge nudge
 wink wink).
 I have tried, but getting the image below 2GB requires IMO a bit too many 
 functional compromises, at least using wheezy as a base, and under the 
 assumption that a full development system and deep git clone is retained

 also I think the idea of ramming a _development_ environment onto the builtin 
 flash is an idea of limited usefulness to start with

 what would make sense is to export a _production_ environment onto the 
 builtin flash once done with the development builds; that surely can be done 
 within the confines of 2GB

 for that effort I happily defer to the BeagleBone LinuCNC volunteer force ;)


After you had made your original comment about shrinking the root 
filesystem, I did some destructive tests, simply ripping out as many 
documentation-oriented packages as seemed likely candidates, using 
aptitude on your distribution in a running BBB. I didn't touch the 
compilers or -dev libraries. I didn't keep good notes but it looked like 
doing just what I did reduced the filesystem nearly 1GB (I didn't see if 
what I had left would actually fit into the 2GB flash). The next time, 
I'll be more methodical and keep better notes.

Regards,
Kent






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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?


Am 29.05.2013 um 02:30 schrieb Kent A. Reed kentallanr...@gmail.com:

 I have tried, but getting the image below 2GB requires IMO a bit too many 
 functional compromises, at least using wheezy as a base, and under the 
 assumption that a full development system and deep git clone is retained
 
 also I think the idea of ramming a _development_ environment onto the 
 builtin flash is an idea of limited usefulness to start with
 
 what would make sense is to export a _production_ environment onto the 
 builtin flash once done with the development builds; that surely can be done 
 within the confines of 2GB
 
 for that effort I happily defer to the BeagleBone LinuCNC volunteer force ;)
 
 
 After you had made your original comment about shrinking the root 
 filesystem, I did some destructive tests, simply ripping out as many 
 documentation-oriented packages as seemed likely candidates, using 
 aptitude on your distribution in a running BBB. I didn't touch the 
 compilers or -dev libraries. I didn't keep good notes but it looked like 
 doing just what I did reduced the filesystem nearly 1GB (I didn't see if 
 what I had left would actually fit into the 2GB flash). The next time, 
 I'll be more methodical and keep better notes.

hm, that'd be interesting. I'm somewhere around 2.1GB and am already pressed to 
choose between nice-to-have-on-board packages. Maybe I've overlooked some 
whoppers.

The biggest win right now would be replacing the git repos by shallow clones 
with just a bit of history should cut out some 300-400MB.

-m




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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?