[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] Point being, whatever MMY actually thought, he never gave Robin any reason to believe MMY didn't support him fully--until the MIU court case and the recorded affidavit. The story I heard was that there was a lot of stuff going on that Robin doesn't mention, such as Robin's followers buzzing the Domes with a helicopter, dropping leaflets, and riding a jeep over the flowerbeds in order to track people down and confront them. This lead to a lawsuit where Robin was banned from setting foot on the MIU campus. I assume the counter lawsuit is the one he talks about. L. Robin Carlson was on some kind of 'Ego Trip' back then... I didn't know how destructive he was at first, but later when he really went of the 'Deep End' it was a very bad scene... He was sueing Maharishi in Court; not sure what it was about; All I know is, a short time after this action, the Court tried to serve Maharishi with Court Papers, and Lenny Goldberg, a M.I.U. attorney got them to turn back... Why oh why would someone want to cause harm to Maharishi? What did Maharishi do to him.. Maybe he as so jealous that he didn't have that kind of following... I remember someone saying something about following leaders, especially a person that 'Curses an Enlightened Sage'...very aweful and ugly, to say the least..! Robert
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: snip MMY asked Robin to describe his valid experiences of Unity to some people is all that I have heard that MMY ever said on the topic of Robin's valid experiences of Unity. Dunno where you got the idea that MMY told Robin that he was enlightened. FWIW, here's Robin's account: ...It was at the point of my uttering the words 'About six days ago, Maharishi, I awoke from the spell of ignorance, and I have been living the simple life of Unity ever since' that I received the full grace of the Master, the grace seemingly beyond the grace of Unityas Maharishi responded 'Congratulations, you are the first governor of the Age of Enlightenment, we'll talk about it later when the cameras are here' (several days later) ...I approached the microphone, this time standing right beside the couch upon which Maharishi sat cross-legged, and began my description of the change that had taken place since I last had announced to him my awakening into Unity. As the words flowed out Maharishi responded with warmth and joviality, smiling, laughing, then listening in rapt silence as I distinguished between the fragility of Unity--the delicacy and quietness my nervous system and personality felt in relation to this new dimension of wholeness--and the robustness of a warrior. I also added how utterly natural and normal the whole experience of Unity and 'Unity plus' (the name I coined to categorize my recent experience) seemed, and, being played as I was for the benefit of the whole group as well as within the special relationship that exists between the enlightened disciple and his Master, I asked 'Where am I now, Maharishi?' The reply 'Oh, somewhere within the layers of wholeness' conveyed with the utter blessing and confirmational tone that would satisfy the most doubtful person in the audience that I was indeed established in God. (Maharishi several months later added the word 'established' in answer to a question regarding my status.)... --The Sunnyside Drama: The First Three Years of Enlightenment And then, according to Robin, for the next seven years as Robin was running around being the enlightened man and gathering followers (mostly TM initiators), MMY kept close tabs on what he was doing--including a personal phone call and interactions between Robin and MMY's advisers (at one point MMY even sent a representative to stay in the local TM center and monitor Robin's activities) --and never once suggested Robin wasn't in the state he believed himself to be in. Point being, whatever MMY actually thought, he never gave Robin any reason to believe MMY didn't support him fully--until the MIU court case and the recorded affidavit. When Maharishi commented on Carlsons experience, I think it really went to Carlson's head...it got so big and puffed up... I think there were some people in those days, who were experiencing the first glimpses of 'Enlightenment'... And the notion of 'Established Enlightenment' was obviously an embellished version of the reality of his real state of consciousness... There are some people in the Dome, on the 'Invincible America Course'... Who, when Maharishi was alive and calling to the Dome(s)... He mentioned several times to several people, that they were exeriencing Enlightenment, when they shared their experience... There are several people now in the Domes, that are experiening 'Brahman Consciousness' , but they are very humble about it, less they lose their status... One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... The ego must be continually subdued, as the power of the enlightened individual can become dangerous if it is not tempered with a deep reverence of one's teacher and one's purpose on earth... Check out the story of Jesus Christ, if you need to 'see' a man who was enlightened and who had completely transcended the 'ego'... J.G.D. Robert
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] Point being, whatever MMY actually thought, he never gave Robin any reason to believe MMY didn't support him fully--until the MIU court case and the recorded affidavit. The story I heard was that there was a lot of stuff going on that Robin doesn't mention, such as Robin's followers buzzing the Domes with a helicopter, dropping leaflets, and riding a jeep over the flowerbeds in order to track people down and confront them. Cultmania. This lead to a lawsuit where Robin was banned from setting foot on the MIU campus. Ah yes, in the vicinyi of yog negative tendencies decrease. What a bunch of fuckwits. I assume the counter lawsuit is the one he talks about. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@... wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... There's nothing rotten in that, but he's Carlsen, with an 'e', and thus *perhaps* Danish or Norwegian ancestry, not Swedish... :D
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... There's nothing rotten in that, but he's Carlsen, with an 'e', and thus *perhaps* Danish or Norwegian ancestry, not Swedish... :D Yeah, so who cares?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] Point being, whatever MMY actually thought, he never gave Robin any reason to believe MMY didn't support him fully--until the MIU court case and the recorded affidavit. The story I heard was that there was a lot of stuff going on that Robin doesn't mention, such as Robin's followers buzzing the Domes with a helicopter, dropping leaflets, and riding a jeep over the flowerbeds in order to track people down and confront them. Cultmania. This lead to a lawsuit where Robin was banned from setting foot on the MIU campus. Ah yes, in the vicinyi of yog negative tendencies decrease. What a bunch of fuckwits. What you say is what an asshole would say, that doesn't know what he's talking about... What about that 'Yogi' Jessus... He was able to hold off the Roman Barbarians with their very painful and terrroristic method of death and torture... What about that? Wasn't Jesus at least considered to be a 'Yogi'? Just because one is enlightened doesn't mean that all the evil of this world is destroyed in one fell sweep... The 'Evil One' has been at this game for a long time... This 'entity' wants to destroy everything which is good and Holy about Life... Donald Trump, works for this one... All the bankers and controllers of money on Wall St. work for the same guy... So, wake the F up and smell the coffee, sir! Robert
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... There's nothing rotten in that, but he's Carlsen, with an 'e', and thus *perhaps* Danish or Norwegian ancestry, not Swedish... :D Yeah, so who cares? At least all of us correct spelling freaks... ;D As an example from Sanskrit: shastra2 n. knife, dagger, sword, weapon i.g. shAstran. instruction, precept, rule, theory, a scientific or canonical work.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... There's nothing rotten in that, but he's Carlsen, with an 'e', and thus *perhaps* Danish or Norwegian ancestry, not Swedish... :D Norwegian ancestry? Now that explains a lot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkcRZSdc8us
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@... wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... The ego must be continually subdued, as the power of the enlightened individual can become dangerous if it is not tempered with a deep reverence of one's teacher and one's purpose on earth... Bingo! I think, an opening is being created, and a lot of astral beings come in through it, the one's Carlsen thought to be the 'vedic gods'. These beings can look very powerful to the ordinary human. They sort of start playing football with you, empower you, just to let you fall in the end. A strong ego and an over eagerness to get/be enlightened, not checked properly by a master, is the sure source of a downfall.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... The ego must be continually subdued, as the power of the enlightened individual can become dangerous if it is not tempered with a deep reverence of one's teacher and one's purpose on earth... Bingo! I think, an opening is being created, and a lot of astral beings come in through it, the one's Carlsen thought to be the 'vedic gods'. These beings can look very powerful to the ordinary human. They sort of start playing football with you, empower you, just to let you fall in the end. A strong ego and an over eagerness to get/be enlightened, not checked properly by a master, is the sure source of a downfall. So he joined the Dark Side of the Force.. ;-) * http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=ensa=Xbiw=1251bih=692tbm=ischprmd=\ imvnstbnid=TjyvPUOQH4S8FM:imgrefurl=http://www.theforce.net/kids/corus\ cant/probe_droid/interview_palpatine.htmdocid=jhBfwLCsG_57gMimgurl=htt\ p://www.theforce.net/kids/coruscant/probe_droid/palpatine.jpgw=400h=30\ 0ei=tJvhT6CfDozvsgbGh5xxzoom=1
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] Point being, whatever MMY actually thought, he never gave Robin any reason to believe MMY didn't support him fully--until the MIU court case and the recorded affidavit. The story I heard was that there was a lot of stuff going on that Robin doesn't mention, such as Robin's followers buzzing the Domes with a helicopter, dropping leaflets, and riding a jeep over the flowerbeds in order to track people down and confront them. This lead to a lawsuit where Robin was banned from setting foot on the MIU campus. I assume the counter lawsuit is the one he talks about. L. 10. That the behavior of attorney, Vincent P. McCarthy, was unprofessional at best and at times bordered on the bizarre. This court can understand the behavior of Carlsen because of his interest in obtaining converts but it is difficult to understand how a member of the Bar could end up planning helicopter drops and other non-sensical methods of attempting to circumvent an agreement he negotiated and drafted. http://ia.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19860129_0042341.IA.htm/qx
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... The ego must be continually subdued, as the power of the enlightened individual can become dangerous if it is not tempered with a deep reverence of one's teacher and one's purpose on earth... Bingo! I think, an opening is being created, and a lot of astral beings come in through it, the one's Carlsen thought to be the 'vedic gods'. These beings can look very powerful to the ordinary human. They sort of start playing football with you, empower you, just to let you fall in the end. A strong ego and an over eagerness to get/be enlightened, not checked properly by a master, is the sure source of a downfall. With all due respect, I see any attempt to blame bad behavior and bad decisions on entities or the Dark Side or astral beings or being possessed as just the person in question being unwilling to take respon- sibility for being either crazy, or an asshole, or both. Crazy is a simpler, and thus more likely, explanation. Feeling as if one is not the author of one's actions? Nothing but psychological dissociation. Hearing voices or feeling as if one is being guided? Even more crazy. Treating people badly? Being an asshole.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
LOVE ly This Bird Has Flowniranitea-my Chinese teapot is shaking MZ wasn't a chair? What kind of fire did he light?(What fight did he fight?) How much of the song had been written in the Swiss Alps? [;)] I once had a girl(MMY), or should I say, she(MMY) once had me? [:D] she asked me to stay [:D] What was the Beatle song called in August 1965? HELP I need somebody Run For Your Life.Hide your head in the sand little girl iranitea:You could find better things to do, than to break my Heart again I'll Be BackAfter recovering from laughter and I'll Follow The Sunafter here in reality an earthquake being in the midst of second taiphoon and when in reality all the rain are gone good night [:D] sweet dream, too --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... There's nothing rotten in that, but he's Carlsen, with an 'e', and thus *perhaps* Danish or Norwegian ancestry, not Swedish... :D Norwegian ancestry? Now that explains a lot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkcRZSdc8us
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] Point being, whatever MMY actually thought, he never gave Robin any reason to believe MMY didn't support him fully--until the MIU court case and the recorded affidavit. The story I heard was that there was a lot of stuff going on that Robin doesn't mention, such as Robin's followers buzzing the Domes with a helicopter, dropping leaflets, and riding a jeep over the flowerbeds in order to track people down and confront them. This lead to a lawsuit where Robin was banned from setting foot on the MIU campus. I assume the counter lawsuit is the one he talks about. L. 10. That the behavior of attorney, Vincent P. McCarthy, was unprofessional at best and at times bordered on the bizarre. This court can understand the behavior of Carlsen because of his interest in obtaining converts but it is difficult to understand how a member of the Bar could end up planning helicopter drops and other non-sensical methods of attempting to circumvent an agreement he negotiated and drafted. http://ia.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19860129_0042341.IA.htm/qx So, he's not the messiah he's just a very naughty boy!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
I can see how they're similar: Knowledge cuts through ignorance. From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... There's nothing rotten in that, but he's Carlsen, with an 'e', and thus *perhaps* Danish or Norwegian ancestry, not Swedish... :D Yeah, so who cares? At least all of us correct spelling freaks... ;D As an example from Sanskrit: shastra 2 n. knife, dagger, sword, weapon i.g. shAstra n. instruction, precept, rule, theory, a scientific or canonical work.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
That's possible, but my bet is they are just near homonyms like for instance English 'father' and 'farther', or 'be' and 'bee'... :o --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I can see how they're similar:Â Knowledge cuts through ignorance. From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... There's nothing rotten in that, but he's Carlsen, with an 'e', and thus *perhaps* Danish or Norwegian ancestry, not Swedish... :D Yeah, so who cares? At least all of us correct spelling freaks... ;D As an example from Sanskrit: shastra 2 n. knife, dagger, sword, weapon i.g. shAstra n. instruction, precept, rule, theory, a scientific or canonical work.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
I wonder if it's more like familiar and family, coming from the same root. From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:52 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... That's possible, but my bet is they are just near homonyms like for instance English 'father' and 'farther', or 'be' and 'bee'... :o --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I can see how they're similar:Â Knowledge cuts through ignorance. From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... There's nothing rotten in that, but he's Carlsen, with an 'e', and thus *perhaps* Danish or Norwegian ancestry, not Swedish... :D Yeah, so who cares? At least all of us correct spelling freaks... ;D As an example from Sanskrit: shastra 2 n. knife, dagger, sword, weapon i.g. shAstra n. instruction, precept, rule, theory, a scientific or canonical work.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...ques to carde
How do you pronounce the capital A in shAstra? ahhh? From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:52 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... That's possible, but my bet is they are just near homonyms like for instance English 'father' and 'farther', or 'be' and 'bee'... :o --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I can see how they're similar:Â Knowledge cuts through ignorance. From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... There's nothing rotten in that, but he's Carlsen, with an 'e', and thus *perhaps* Danish or Norwegian ancestry, not Swedish... :D Yeah, so who cares? At least all of us correct spelling freaks... ;D As an example from Sanskrit: shastra 2 n. knife, dagger, sword, weapon i.g. shAstra n. instruction, precept, rule, theory, a scientific or canonical work.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: With all due respect, I see any attempt to blame bad behavior and bad decisions on entities or the Dark Side or astral beings or being possessed as just the person in question being unwilling to take respon- sibility for being either crazy, or an asshole, or both. With all due respect, there are legal terms for when a person can be held accountable or not. Ask Mrs. Stein about that, before a certain time, RC was in a delusional state of UC, and may be excused for everything that happened at this time. We have posted a surveillance camera outside the Golden Domes to view what is really going on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nFXIPdseQA Crazy is a simpler, and thus more likely, explanation. Feeling as if one is not the author of one's actions? Nothing but psychological dissociation. Hearing voices or feeling as if one is being guided? Even more crazy. Treating people badly? Being an asshole.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: The point is he wanted MMY to certify his 'enlightened state'. Right. And so...? That's the whole point. I think Xeno or IraniTea or Salyawin can elaborate on it. No, they couldn't. Or if they could, they'd just be telling you what I go on to tell you below. I always find it consoling if other people answer on my behalf, or know what I can elaborate or not. I can sit back and be just lazy. Good to have an editor (or wait, she's just a proofreader)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: With all due respect, I see any attempt to blame bad behavior and bad decisions on entities or the Dark Side or astral beings or being possessed as just the person in question being unwilling to take respon- sibility for being either crazy, or an asshole, or both. With all due respect, there are legal terms for when a person can be held accountable or not. Ask Mrs. Stein about that, before a certain time, RC was in a delusional state of UC, and may be excused for everything that happened at this time. Hard to tell from iranitea's busted syntax, but it seems he's claiming that I think Robin should be excused for his behavior when he was doing his enlightened man thing. If so, iranitea is not telling the truth. Whatever bad behavior Robin engaged in, he's fully responsible for, entities or no entities. (And this, of course, is what Robin believes too, as he's explained in his posts. He spent 25 years repenting for that behavior.) The question is whether iranitea feels he, iranitea, is responsible for his own bad behavior on FFL. Since he's one of Barry's groupies, and Barry, as we all know, takes no responsibility whatsoever for his bad behavior, I'm guessing iranitea doesn't either. The interesting thing is to compare Robin's behavior now, on FFL, with that of Barry and iranitea. Just for starters, compare the number of nasty posts the latter two have made about the Robin (including falsehoods) with the number Robin has made about anybody. We have posted a surveillance camera outside the Golden Domes to view what is really going on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nFXIPdseQA Crazy is a simpler, and thus more likely, explanation. Feeling as if one is not the author of one's actions? Nothing but psychological dissociation. Hearing voices or feeling as if one is being guided? Even more crazy. Treating people badly? Being an asshole.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: With all due respect, I see any attempt to blame bad behavior and bad decisions on entities or the Dark Side or astral beings or being possessed as just the person in question being unwilling to take respon- sibility for being either crazy, or an asshole, or both. With all due respect, there are legal terms for when a person can be held accountable or not. Ask Mrs. Stein about that, before a certain time, RC was in a delusional state of UC, and may be excused for everything that happened at this time. A good point, and I stand corrected. Silly me, I was thinking of a world in which people *wanted* to take responsibility for their own actions. I hadn't con- sidered the alternative, in which those who buy RC's It wasn't my fault, I was in a delusional state of consciousness thang are already thinking ahead to their OWN defense, when the authorities finally come for *them*. It wasn't my fault. I was misled by a cult. They told me it was enlightened to act this way. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: The question is whether iranitea feels he, iranitea, is responsible for his own bad behavior on FFL. Since he's one of Barry's groupies, and Barry, as we all know, takes no responsibility whatsoever for his bad behavior, I'm guessing iranitea doesn't either. It's always more easy for you to lump us together, Barry, me and don't forget Vaj, the axis of evil on FFL, because you don't have to change your attitude, and apply the same tactics and recycled accusation you do towards him since decades to me. You can simply project the same hatred and obsession you have for him to me. How convenient. The interesting thing is to compare Robin's behavior now, on FFL, with that of Barry and iranitea. Just for starters, compare the number of nasty posts the latter two have made about the Robin (including falsehoods) with the number Robin has made about anybody. It is very well known that all of RC's post have only one topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDHwVM-PJI Now, that could be the reason.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] Point being, whatever MMY actually thought, he never gave Robin any reason to believe MMY didn't support him fully--until the MIU court case and the recorded affidavit. The story I heard was that there was a lot of stuff going on that Robin doesn't mention, such as Robin's followers buzzing the Domes with a helicopter, dropping leaflets, I guess you missed Robin's discussion here of the helicopter leaflet drop over the domes, huh? (He wasn't *in* the helicopter, but it was all his idea; he planned it.) See, for example: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/280991 and riding a jeep over the flowerbeds in order to track people down and confront them. This lead to a lawsuit where Robin was banned from setting foot on the MIU campus. Well, I'm not sure either the helicopter drop or the flowerbeds had anything to do with it. I assume the counter lawsuit is the one he talks about. He's talked about both lawsuits, actually. As I understand it, he brought the first one, claiming MIU authorities were harassing his students and interfering with his business, and MIU brought the countersuit asking that he be barred from campus. The whole legal thing was very complicated. Probably best not to go with the story I heard. There were lots of stories, some more accurate than others. Robin might be willing to tell you more if you asked him rather than repeating rumors. In any case, this was supposed to be relevant to what I said that you were commenting on exactly how? But, you know, as long as we're telling stories, the one Peter Sutphen told (you remember him, right?) was that Bevan had said MMY had told him to ignore Robin. But Bevan didn't take MMY's advice, and then was sorry later on because it created such a mess and upheaval on campus: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/201812 Did you hear that story, Lawson? Oh, yes, you did, actually, from Peter, in another post. You must have forgotten about it, otherwise you'd surely have mentioned it in this context, right? I mean, you wouldn't want anyone to think it was MMY who told Bevan to go after Robin when you knew otherwise, would you?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...ques to carde
I'd say 'a' in 'father' is quite close, and for short Sanskrit a-sound, (shastra) IMO, 'o' in 'mother', as they are pronounced in translate.google.com. I guess for many people, 'A' looks more elegant than, say, 'aa'. (Short 'a' is the only reduced, i.e., not pure, vowel in Sanskrit...) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: How do you pronounce the capital A in shAstra? ahhh? From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:52 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...  That's possible, but my bet is they are just near homonyms like for instance English 'father' and 'farther', or 'be' and 'bee'... :o --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: I can see how they're similar:àKnowledge cuts through ignorance. From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... There's nothing rotten in that, but he's Carlsen, with an 'e', and thus *perhaps* Danish or Norwegian ancestry, not Swedish... :D Yeah, so who cares? At least all of us correct spelling freaks... ;D As an example from Sanskrit: shastra 2 n. knife, dagger, sword, weapon i.g. shAstra n. instruction, precept, rule, theory, a scientific or canonical work.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: The question is whether iranitea feels he, iranitea, is responsible for his own bad behavior on FFL. Since he's one of Barry's groupies, and Barry, as we all know, takes no responsibility whatsoever for his bad behavior, I'm guessing iranitea doesn't either. It's always more easy for you to lump us together, Barry, me and don't forget Vaj, the axis of evil on FFL, because you don't have to change your attitude, and apply the same tactics and recycled accusation you do towards him since decades to me. You can simply project the same hatred and obsession you have for him to me. How convenient. Well, since the three of you all misbehave in the same way-- all three of you tend to be sadistically mean, and all three of you have no compunctions about distorting the facts and telling blatant falsehoods (including in the post I was commenting on, which you've carefully deleted)--I don't know how it could be otherwise, do you? I'd be careful, if I were you, about claiming *I* have an obsession with *you*. Anyone who's been reading the traffic here knows it's the other way around, and they're just going to snicker at you. The interesting thing is to compare Robin's behavior now, on FFL, with that of Barry and iranitea. Just for starters, compare the number of nasty posts the latter two have made about the Robin (including falsehoods) with the number Robin has made about anybody. It is very well known that all of RC's post have only one topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDHwVM-PJI Now, that could be the reason. See what I mean about falsehoods? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/312241 And BTW, if you were to stop constantly attacking him and instead engage him in conversation about other topics, you might see even fewer posts from him about himself.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: It is very well known that all of RC's post have only one topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDHwVM-PJI Now, that could be the reason. See what I mean about falsehoods? Yep. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/312241 Oh, Judy, there you really got me! He is actually not writing about himself, and the post is a typical 4 lines long! And BTW, if you were to stop constantly attacking him and instead engage him in conversation about other topics, you might see even fewer posts from him about himself. Why should I engage him in conversation? I am just discussing with friends, how I interpret certain things that are being said here. And I am sort of upfront about it. If you call this attacking, it is your call. I actually have little interest in what he thinks for reasons I have already explained.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
It is very well known that all of RC's post have only one topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDHwVM-PJI Now, that could be the reason. See what I mean about falsehoods? Yep. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/312241 --- iranitea no_reply@... wrote: Oh, Judy, there you really got me! He is actually not writing about himself, and the post is a typical 4 lines long! --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: And BTW, if you were to stop constantly attacking him and instead engage him in conversation about other topics, you might see even fewer posts from him about himself. --- iranitea no_reply@... wrote: Why should I engage him in conversation? I am just discussing with friends, how I interpret certain things that are being said here. And I am sort of upfront about it. If you call this attacking, it is your call. I actually have little interest in what he thinks for reasons I have already explained. IraniTea, look what he has written below. I think he sub-consciously suppressed these feelings while he was with Maharishi all these years and they are popping out now. --- maskedzebra no_reply@ wrote: I wish your friend well; if I may be permitted to say it, I think him infinitely better off returning to Christianity than remaining at MIU. For I think Christianity (Roman Catholicism) ONCE was the Truth. It's just that God has withdrawn himself from his Church. Which is why and how the Eastern gods invaded the West with impunity. They couldn't do this on such a massive scale before. But I have gone beyond what you have asked me.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...ques to carde
thank you, fun to encounter Sanskrit here along with everything else. FFL is quite the buffet (-: From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...ques to carde I'd say 'a' in 'father' is quite close, and for short Sanskrit a-sound, (shastra) IMO, 'o' in 'mother', as they are pronounced in translate.google.com. I guess for many people, 'A' looks more elegant than, say, 'aa'. (Short 'a' is the only reduced, i.e., not pure, vowel in Sanskrit...) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: How do you pronounce the capital A in shAstra? ahhh? From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:52 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...  That's possible, but my bet is they are just near homonyms like for instance English 'father' and 'farther', or 'be' and 'bee'... :o --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: I can see how they're similar: Knowledge cuts through ignorance. From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@ wrote: One of the 'Downfalls' of the path to Enlightenment... Is that the ego, in it's last desperate attempt to remain control, gets completely out of hand, and the individual can fall to the 'Dark Side' attacking others, and bringing a lot of negagive attention to oneself...I assume this is what happened to Carlson... There's nothing rotten in that, but he's Carlsen, with an 'e', and thus *perhaps* Danish or Norwegian ancestry, not Swedish... :D Yeah, so who cares? At least all of us correct spelling freaks... ;D As an example from Sanskrit: shastra 2 n. knife, dagger, sword, weapon i.g. shAstra n. instruction, precept, rule, theory, a scientific or canonical work.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
Oy what to do? I enjoy some of the posts from each of the evil axis. And I'm in the Dome! oy oy oy... From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: The question is whether iranitea feels he, iranitea, is responsible for his own bad behavior on FFL. Since he's one of Barry's groupies, and Barry, as we all know, takes no responsibility whatsoever for his bad behavior, I'm guessing iranitea doesn't either. It's always more easy for you to lump us together, Barry, me and don't forget Vaj, the axis of evil on FFL, because you don't have to change your attitude, and apply the same tactics and recycled accusation you do towards him since decades to me. You can simply project the same hatred and obsession you have for him to me. How convenient. The interesting thing is to compare Robin's behavior now, on FFL, with that of Barry and iranitea. Just for starters, compare the number of nasty posts the latter two have made about the Robin (including falsehoods) with the number Robin has made about anybody. It is very well known that all of RC's post have only one topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDHwVM-PJI Now, that could be the reason.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: IraniTea, look what he has written below. I think he sub-consciously suppressed these feelings while he was with Maharishi all these years and they are popping out now. --- maskedzebra no_reply@ wrote: I wish your friend well; if I may be permitted to say it, I think him infinitely better off returning to Christianity than remaining at MIU. For I think Christianity (Roman Catholicism) ONCE was the Truth. It's just that God has withdrawn himself from his Church. Which is why and how the Eastern gods invaded the West with impunity. They couldn't do this on such a massive scale before. But I have gone beyond what you have asked me. Yep, I have seen it. I also saw when he was discouraging Emily last year to take up TM. He clearly has some feelings of revenge toward Maharishi, especially, when he has heard Maharishi's voice in the court case. That's when he finally awoke to what is going on. What do you do when something like this happens? He turned elsewhere, but where to go? I think here it backfires that he hasn't had exposure to any other eastern spiritual paths, so whatever he knows about Indian spirituality is sort of limited to the TM view, which he started to reject. What do people do then? He took recourse to his childhood religion, Christianity, and the rest of the story is well known. What is obvious, is that he had to redress his rejection of everything TM/eastern into a whole rejection of a world view, something truly on a cosmic scale. Same with his ultimate rejection of Catholicism. It's not just that he found RCC personally empty after some time, but it had to be a bombastic event of a cosmic dimension, where God withdrew his spirit from the Church.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: It is very well known that all of RC's post have only one topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDHwVM-PJI Now, that could be the reason. See what I mean about falsehoods? Yep. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/312241 Oh, Judy, there you really got me! He is actually not writing about himself, and the post is a typical 4 lines long! Hands, please. How many here think iranitea missed the much longer post from Robin quoted below the four lines? And how many think iranitea is desperately hoping nobody else will notice it? And BTW, if you were to stop constantly attacking him and instead engage him in conversation about other topics, you might see even fewer posts from him about himself. Why should I engage him in conversation? I am just discussing with friends, how I interpret certain things that are being said here. No, that isn't what you're doing. You're viciously going after Robin because you hate me and you know I'm a fan of his. Remember, you posted the 30-year-old Khomeini quote in response to some complimentary things I'd said about Robin's posts. And you attempted to suggest it should raise red flags about him now because--wait for it!-- the writing style was similar. Since he had unsubscribed back in January, you assumed he wouldn't see what you had posted and wouldn't be able to defend himself from your attack. Luckily he did see it and resubscribed to provide an accurate perspective on what he'd written in 1982, i.e., that he strongly rejects the view of Khomeini he'd held then. (Your pal Barry piled on, not having bothered to read Robin's response, suggesting that Robin was comfortable with Khomeini's thousands of executions and fatwah against Salman Rushdie.) In reply to Robin, you told an amazing series of falsehoods about what had inspired you to post the Khomeini quote, making claims about what I had said to you that you knew were not true. You also insisted Robin was wrong to blame you for posting the quote, *as if he had done so*, when in fact he had done nothing of the kind (he'd have been fully justified if he had, IMHO, but he chose not to). Moreover, you claimed you had no agenda against him, a ridiculous assertion on its face. You and Barry have done nothing but attack him since then. The very worst he's said about the two of you is that you don't really believe what you're saying about him. I agree. You are both compulsively driven by an inexplicably negative reaction to him personally. This time around the fact that he's received such a warm welcome from a number of people here is really freaking you out. Other people respond positively to Robin because he's a generous, loving, witty, thoughtful, empathetic, extremely intelligent individual, regardless of how strange his metaphysical ideas may seem. But for some reason this makes you insane with rage (perhaps because subconsciously you realize how lacking you are in such qualities). And I am sort of upfront about it. If you call this attacking, it is your call. Yes, of course it's attacking. Everybody here recognizes this. I actually have little interest in what he thinks for reasons I have already explained. Fine. My point, as you know, is that a person's responses to personal attacks are likely to involve talking about themselves, to correct falsehoods and misrepresentations. But obviously it's not true to say you have little interest in what he thinks. You're *fascinated* by what he thinks because it gives you an excuse to attack him. I'll repeat what I said earlier: your and Barry's behavior toward Robin tells us far more about your mental health problems than any he might have. This is my last post for the week. I'm sure you'll see fit to continue attacking and misrepresenting me while I'm not able to post, malicious coward that you are, but you can count on my responding when I return Friday evening.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- authfriend jstein@... wrote: No, that isn't what you're doing. You're viciously going after Robin because you hate me and you know I'm a fan of his. Other people respond positively to Robin because he's a generous, loving, witty, thoughtful, empathetic, extremely intelligent individual, regardless of how strange his metaphysical ideas may seem. But for some reason this makes you insane with rage (perhaps because subconsciously you realize how lacking you are in such qualities). I'll repeat what I said earlier: your and Barry's behavior toward Robin tells us far more about your mental health problems than any he might have. This is my last post for the week. I'm sure you'll see fit to continue attacking and misrepresenting me while I'm not able to post, malicious coward that you are, but you can count on my responding when I return Friday evening. It's these kind of posts that worry me. Robin in one post seemed to imply that he was controlled by cosmic intelligence, and in another post seamed to imply that this intelligence had nothing to do with his actions. I fell asleep and couldn't continue the interaction with her. Anyway, coming to this post the accusations are quite serious. The allegation is Barry and IraniTea attack Robin because they hate her.!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: No, that isn't what you're doing. You're viciously going after Robin because you hate me and you know I'm a fan of his. Other people respond positively to Robin because he's a generous, loving, witty, thoughtful, empathetic, extremely intelligent individual, regardless of how strange his metaphysical ideas may seem. But for some reason this makes you insane with rage (perhaps because subconsciously you realize how lacking you are in such qualities). I'll repeat what I said earlier: your and Barry's behavior toward Robin tells us far more about your mental health problems than any he might have. This is my last post for the week. I'm sure you'll see fit to continue attacking and misrepresenting me while I'm not able to post, malicious coward that you are, but you can count on my responding when I return Friday evening. It's these kind of posts that worry me. Robin in one post seemed to imply that he was controlled by cosmic intelligence, and in another post seamed to imply that this intelligence had nothing to do with his actions. I fell asleep and couldn't continue the interaction with her. Anyway, coming to this post the accusations are quite serious. The allegation is Barry and IraniTea attack Robin because they hate her.! Jason, I agree with you. Or maybe Judy defends Robin because she hates Barry and iranitea :-) Robins' story is so complicated if you have to read his many and lengthy posts, that I think only Judy and he know the details. Atman and Brhaman tried to get Robin to confirm the sequence of some events in his life yesterday, but I see no reply. Robin's story, foe me, is kind of like quoting the bible - you can find something to support a number of different positions depending on what you quote and how you interpret it. But then I am not an expert on his life and never was interested enough to delve into his posts. Not knowing Robin, I have wondered sometimes if his posts here are a joke, and an attempt to stir up some controversy and attention. He seems quite capable of defending himself, not sure why Judy feels she has to go to bat for him. Anyway, I have reached saturation point with this topic
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
Judy, I don't know you but I love you. I couldn't have said it better! Bravo. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: It is very well known that all of RC's post have only one topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvDHwVM-PJI Now, that could be the reason. See what I mean about falsehoods? Yep. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/312241 Oh, Judy, there you really got me! He is actually not writing about himself, and the post is a typical 4 lines long! Hands, please. How many here think iranitea missed the much longer post from Robin quoted below the four lines? And how many think iranitea is desperately hoping nobody else will notice it? And BTW, if you were to stop constantly attacking him and instead engage him in conversation about other topics, you might see even fewer posts from him about himself. Why should I engage him in conversation? I am just discussing with friends, how I interpret certain things that are being said here. No, that isn't what you're doing. You're viciously going after Robin because you hate me and you know I'm a fan of his. Remember, you posted the 30-year-old Khomeini quote in response to some complimentary things I'd said about Robin's posts. And you attempted to suggest it should raise red flags about him now because--wait for it!-- the writing style was similar. Since he had unsubscribed back in January, you assumed he wouldn't see what you had posted and wouldn't be able to defend himself from your attack. Luckily he did see it and resubscribed to provide an accurate perspective on what he'd written in 1982, i.e., that he strongly rejects the view of Khomeini he'd held then. (Your pal Barry piled on, not having bothered to read Robin's response, suggesting that Robin was comfortable with Khomeini's thousands of executions and fatwah against Salman Rushdie.) In reply to Robin, you told an amazing series of falsehoods about what had inspired you to post the Khomeini quote, making claims about what I had said to you that you knew were not true. You also insisted Robin was wrong to blame you for posting the quote, *as if he had done so*, when in fact he had done nothing of the kind (he'd have been fully justified if he had, IMHO, but he chose not to). Moreover, you claimed you had no agenda against him, a ridiculous assertion on its face. You and Barry have done nothing but attack him since then. The very worst he's said about the two of you is that you don't really believe what you're saying about him. I agree. You are both compulsively driven by an inexplicably negative reaction to him personally. This time around the fact that he's received such a warm welcome from a number of people here is really freaking you out. Other people respond positively to Robin because he's a generous, loving, witty, thoughtful, empathetic, extremely intelligent individual, regardless of how strange his metaphysical ideas may seem. But for some reason this makes you insane with rage (perhaps because subconsciously you realize how lacking you are in such qualities). And I am sort of upfront about it. If you call this attacking, it is your call. Yes, of course it's attacking. Everybody here recognizes this. I actually have little interest in what he thinks for reasons I have already explained. Fine. My point, as you know, is that a person's responses to personal attacks are likely to involve talking about themselves, to correct falsehoods and misrepresentations. But obviously it's not true to say you have little interest in what he thinks. You're *fascinated* by what he thinks because it gives you an excuse to attack him. I'll repeat what I said earlier: your and Barry's behavior toward Robin tells us far more about your mental health problems than any he might have. This is my last post for the week. I'm sure you'll see fit to continue attacking and misrepresenting me while I'm not able to post, malicious coward that you are, but you can count on my responding when I return Friday evening.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: I would not call Robin the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. I haven't been following anything that led up to someone saying this, but that's the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Robin is *completely dependent* on both TM and Maharishi. His entire story would be meaningless without both of them. He still praises Maharishi and calls him enlightened because if he didn't, and MMY was a nobody, then Robin's *entire claim to fame* is worthless; a nobody once hinted that he (Robin) was enlightened. Besides, Robin depends, for his entire audience, on people who revolve around Maharishi. No one else would pay any attention to him or consider him worth listening to or reading. His exploits in the 80s depend *entirely* on having either Maharishi or MIU to react against. Whoever said what Susan is responding to is an idiot. Robin couldn't go five minutes when trying to impress TMers or former TMers without mentioning Maharishi. He is more dependent on the man than anyone who has ever appeared on Fairfield Life. Maharishi is in a very literal sense Robin's crutch, and will always be.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- Susan wayback71@ wrote: I would not call Robin the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. --- turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: I haven't been following anything that led up to someone saying this, but that's the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Robin is *completely dependent* on both TM and Maharishi. His entire story would be meaningless without both of them. He still praises Maharishi and calls him enlightened because if he didn't, and MMY was a nobody, then Robin's *entire claim to fame* is worthless; a nobody once hinted that he (Robin) was enlightened. Besides, Robin depends, for his entire audience, on people who revolve around Maharishi. No one else would pay any attention to him or consider him worth listening to or reading. His exploits in the 80s depend *entirely* on having either Maharishi or MIU to react against. Whoever said what Susan is responding to is an idiot. Robin couldn't go five minutes when trying to impress TMers or former TMers without mentioning Maharishi. He is more dependent on the man than anyone who has ever appeared on Fairfield Life. Maharishi is in a very literal sense Robin's crutch, and will always be. Are you implying that he is a cunning, calculative, publicity seeking and attention seeking hound.? I now get a feeling that he tries to hide his illogical points tucked inside inside his voluminious post and further tries to hide it behind rare bombastic words. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: If Maharishi posted something on FFL at, I say, at the height of his powers and influence and prestige *we would recognize that this postereven if we didn't know who he was was, in his discussion and analysis of enlightenment, providing the most potent metaphysical subtext of anyone posting on FFL*. Well, then, I had better realize this, shouldn't I, else my irony sensibiity has atrophied something serious since I gave up this enlightenment business. But more than this, it is not the intelligence which created the universe which has created this state of consciousness; nor does the intelligence which created the universe have anything to do with the actions of the enlightened person I mean in the sense of being the direct and specific cause of those actions, In this sense the cosmic in cosmic consciousness is not cosmic at all. It certainly is a metaphysical power, and perhaps even is being controlled by very powerful intelligences; but those intelligences would be Maharishi's Vedic gods, or personal gods, or impulses of creative intelligence. --- curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote It was a pretty strongly worded FU to him, so he must have gotten some of your attention. I ignore plenty of people here without having to tell them I am ignoring them. I believe you have a little more skin in the game than you are claiming. I think he got to you in the same way some posters have gotten to me. I think you may be missing his intent and POV in his responses.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:22 AM, Robin Carlsen wrote: I have never had a problem being understood. First off, when someone uses absolutes in this way (never, always, etc.), it's rarely true. I seriously doubt that the majority of World Teacher Seminarians really understood your writings but rather shrugged them off as being from an Enlightened TM poster boy and therefore legit and of value. I suspect you leave quite a few people scratching their heads - esp. with unusual idiosyncratic beliefs like the Ruach Ha-Kodesh leaving the RC church after a monastery in an obscure Italian village was bombed or transcendental demons overtaking innocent MIU students or enlightenment-as-a-delusion/hallucination you can recover from. The major thing that has not changed is that there's always some glaring idiosyncratic element in your belief system, whether it be spirit-barren catholic churches or HR Giger meets MIU, that makes your writing hard to swallow, but often still entertaining. Placed against the background of trance channelling TM sidhas, fringe healers and questionable investment schemes that seem to form the background of the sidha social scene it's actually a belief system that's slightly more tenable. But when placed outside that context, it loses the whacky gestalt that hid the zebra in the first place.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:22 AM, Robin Carlsen wrote: I have never had a problem being understood. --- Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: First off, when someone uses absolutes in this way (never, always, etc.), it's rarely true. I seriously doubt that the majority of World Teacher Seminarians really understood your writings but rather shrugged them off as being from an Enlightened TM poster boy and therefore legit and of value. I suspect you leave quite a few people scratching their heads - esp. with unusual idiosyncratic beliefs like the Ruach Ha-Kodesh leaving the RC church after a monastery in an obscure Italian village was bombed or transcendental demons overtaking innocent MIU students or enlightenment-as-a-delusion/hallucination you can recover from. The major thing that has not changed is that there's always some glaring idiosyncratic element in your belief system, whether it be spirit-barren catholic churches or HR Giger meets MIU, that makes your writing hard to swallow, but often still entertaining. Placed against the background of trance channelling TM sidhas, fringe healers and questionable investment schemes that seem to form the background of the sidha social scene it's actually a belief system that's slightly more tenable. But when placed outside that context, it loses the whacky gestalt that hid the zebra in the first place. I think he said something like only on FFL he had problems getting understood.! In that case why the heck he filed a suit against MMY? Could it be that MMY didn't understand him.?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. (snip) Robert: During the 3rd Reich... And, this has what to do with Vaj and Barry and iranitea? Don't Follow Leaders! Watch the Parking Meters!'... You are not making any sense - anymore than Bob made any sense when he wrote this. LoL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. (snip) Robert: During the 3rd Reich... --- Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: And, this has what to do with Vaj and Barry and iranitea? Robert: Don't Follow Leaders! Watch the Parking Meters!'... --- Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: You are not making any sense - anymore than Bob made any sense when he wrote this. LoL! He suddenly decided that catholicism is true. But still wanted a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity which is why he filed a suit. Sure from that POV he is still dependent on TM and MMY. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: For me, Lawson, he delivered everything he promised, but then, in a moment that was definitive for me I realized: Hey, Robin: what you are experiencing cannot, if Catholicism is true, represent a perfect correspondence with reality. You are deceived. And gradually, Lawson, I began to see all the incontrovertible evidence for this. And I spent twenty-five years getting de-enlightened, which was longer than it took me to get enlightened. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: snip He suddenly decided that catholicism is true. But still wanted a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity which is why he filed a suit. Sure from that POV he is still dependent on TM and MMY. Uh, no, Jason. His conversion to Catholicism happened years later. I'm not positive, but I believe MIU brought a suit against Robin, and Robin countersued. Robin's suit was not filed to get a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity. Whether MMY considered Robin enlightened was not the issue in Robin's suit; MMY's tape-recorded affidavit was a piece of evidence in the suit. Robin had fully expected MMY to support him against MIU and was astonished when he did not. And Robin wasn't asking for a certificate; he was asking for *certification*--i.e., via MMY's audiotaped affidavit--that he was enlightened and that MMY approved of Robin's modifications of MMY's teaching (including the TM-Sidhis sutras).
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip He suddenly decided that catholicism is true. But still wanted a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity which is why he filed a suit. Sure from that POV he is still dependent on TM and MMY. Uh, no, Jason. His conversion to Catholicism happened years later. I'm not positive, but I believe MIU brought a suit against Robin, and Robin countersued. Robin's suit was not filed to get a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity. Whether MMY considered Robin enlightened was not the issue in Robin's suit; MMY's tape-recorded affidavit was a piece of evidence in the suit. Robin had fully expected MMY to support him against MIU and was astonished when he did not. And Robin wasn't asking for a certificate; he was asking for *certification*--i.e., via MMY's audiotaped affidavit--that he was enlightened and that MMY approved of Robin's modifications of MMY's teaching (including the TM-Sidhis sutras). Erm, surely if Robin was enlightened the nature would have spontaneously supported his every wish? Just sayin
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip He suddenly decided that catholicism is true. But still wanted a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity which is why he filed a suit. Sure from that POV he is still dependent on TM and MMY. Uh, no, Jason. His conversion to Catholicism happened years later. I'm not positive, but I believe MIU brought a suit against Robin, and Robin countersued. Robin's suit was not filed to get a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity. Whether MMY considered Robin enlightened was not the issue in Robin's suit; MMY's tape-recorded affidavit was a piece of evidence in the suit. Robin had fully expected MMY to support him against MIU and was astonished when he did not. And Robin wasn't asking for a certificate; he was asking for *certification*--i.e., via MMY's audiotaped affidavit--that he was enlightened and that MMY approved of Robin's modifications of MMY's teaching (including the TM-Sidhis sutras). Erm, surely if Robin was enlightened the nature would have spontaneously supported his every wish? Just sayin Not necessarily. Not quite that simple.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip He suddenly decided that catholicism is true. But still wanted a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity which is why he filed a suit. Sure from that POV he is still dependent on TM and MMY. --- authfriend jstein@... wrote: Uh, no, Jason. His conversion to Catholicism happened years later. I'm not positive, but I believe MIU brought a suit against Robin, and Robin countersued. Robin's suit was not filed to get a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity. Whether MMY considered Robin enlightened was not the issue in Robin's suit; MMY's tape-recorded affidavit was a piece of evidence in the suit. Robin had fully expected MMY to support him against MIU and was astonished when he did not. And Robin wasn't asking for a certificate; he was asking for *certification*--i.e., via MMY's audiotaped affidavit--that he was enlightened and that MMY approved of Robin's modifications of MMY's teaching (including the TM-Sidhis sutras). The point is he wanted MMY to certify his 'enlightened state'. I suppose this happened after he became the Shankaracharya of North America.?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:22 AM, Robin Carlsen wrote: I have never had a problem being understood. First off, when someone uses absolutes in this way (never, always, etc.), it's rarely true. I seriously doubt that the majority of World Teacher Seminarians really understood your writings but rather shrugged them off as being from an Enlightened TM poster boy and therefore legit and of value. I suspect you leave quite a few people scratching their heads - esp. with unusual idiosyncratic beliefs like the Ruach Ha-Kodesh leaving the RC church It wouldn't have been the *Jewish* version of the Holy Spirit leaving the RC Church, actually. That would indeed be confusing (and of course was never what Robin said). And this particular belief was not a WTS doctrine. Robin developed it well after WTS days. after a monastery in an obscure Italian village was bombed Just for the record, this was a highly significant event of World War II. or transcendental demons overtaking innocent MIU students or enlightenment-as-a-delusion/hallucination you can recover from. The issue is not whether one is puzzled by what Robin says but whether one can cite it accurately, as Vaj knows but is pretending not to. On FFL it's like a game of Telephone. If he's said once, for example, he's said dozens of times that he has rejected Catholicism, yet you still find people claiming he's Catholic. The difference from Telephone is that the originals of what Robin has said are not just vague memories of hearing something muttered in one's ear; they're down in black and white where everyone can read them. The major thing that has not changed is that there's always some glaring idiosyncratic element in your belief system That's certainly true, Robin has quite a few idiosyncratic beliefs. But there's no reason to *misrepresent* those beliefs, as has so often has happened on FFL.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: snip Are you implying that he is a cunning, calculative, publicity seeking and attention seeking hound.? I now get a feeling that he tries to hide his illogical points tucked inside inside his voluminious post and further tries to hide it behind rare bombastic words. Did you have trouble understanding what he wrote that you quote, Jason? --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: If Maharishi posted something on FFL at, I say, at the height of his powers and influence and prestige *we would recognize that this postereven if we didn't know who he was was, in his discussion and analysis of enlightenment, providing the most potent metaphysical subtext of anyone posting on FFL*. Well, then, I had better realize this, shouldn't I, else my irony sensibiity has atrophied something serious since I gave up this enlightenment business. Oops, Jason, you didn't note that you made a big snip between the above two paragraphs. That's a no-no. But more than this, it is not the intelligence which created the universe which has created this state of consciousness; nor does the intelligence which created the universe have anything to do with the actions of the enlightened person I mean in the sense of being the direct and specific cause of those actions, In this sense the cosmic in cosmic consciousness is not cosmic at all. It certainly is a metaphysical power, and perhaps even is being controlled by very powerful intelligences; but those intelligences would be Maharishi's Vedic gods, or personal gods, or impulses of creative intelligence. I wonder why Jason included this quote from a much earlier post of Curtis's, since it has nothing to do with the current discussion. It's interesting, though, in and of itself; it comes from a post in which Curtis was defending Robin from Barry's criticisms (this was from before Robin and Curtis had their big falling-out, but I doubt Curtis would disavow what he said in this post even today). http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/284791 --- curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote It was a pretty strongly worded FU to him, so he must have gotten some of your attention. I ignore plenty of people here without having to tell them I am ignoring them. I believe you have a little more skin in the game than you are claiming. I think he got to you in the same way some posters have gotten to me. I think you may be missing his intent and POV in his responses. Another unmarked snip above.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip He suddenly decided that catholicism is true. But still wanted a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity which is why he filed a suit. Sure from that POV he is still dependent on TM and MMY. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Uh, no, Jason. His conversion to Catholicism happened years later. I'm not positive, but I believe MIU brought a suit against Robin, and Robin countersued. Robin's suit was not filed to get a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity. Whether MMY considered Robin enlightened was not the issue in Robin's suit; MMY's tape-recorded affidavit was a piece of evidence in the suit. Robin had fully expected MMY to support him against MIU and was astonished when he did not. And Robin wasn't asking for a certificate; he was asking for *certification*--i.e., via MMY's audiotaped affidavit--that he was enlightened and that MMY approved of Robin's modifications of MMY's teaching (including the TM-Sidhis sutras). The point is he wanted MMY to certify his 'enlightened state'. Right. And so...? I suppose this happened after he became the Shankaracharya of North America.? I don't know if became is the right word. I think he appointed himself to that position, presumably with the concurrence of his followers. I'm not sure, but I believe that would have been before the lawsuit.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip I now get a feeling that he tries to hide his illogical points tucked inside inside his voluminious post and further tries to hide it behind rare bombastic words. --- authfriend jstein@... wrote: Did you have trouble understanding what he wrote that you quote, Jason? --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: If Maharishi posted something on FFL at, I say, at the height of his powers and influence and prestige *we would recognize that this postereven if we didn't know who he was was, in his discussion and analysis of enlightenment, providing the most potent metaphysical subtext of anyone posting on FFL*. Well, then, I had better realize this, shouldn't I, else my irony sensibiity has atrophied something serious since I gave up this enlightenment business. --- authfriend jstein@... wrote: Oops, Jason, you didn't note that you made a big snip between the above two paragraphs. That's a no-no. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: But more than this, it is not the intelligence which created the universe which has created this state of consciousness; nor does the intelligence which created the universe have anything to do with the actions of the enlightened person I mean in the sense of being the direct and specific cause of those actions, In this sense the cosmic in cosmic consciousness is not cosmic at all. It certainly is a metaphysical power, and perhaps even is being controlled by very powerful intelligences; but those intelligences would be Maharishi's Vedic gods, or personal gods, or impulses of creative intelligence. He contradicts himself again and again. He now states that 'the intelligence which created the universe, has nothing to do with the actions of an enlightened person.' Read it youself above.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip He suddenly decided that catholicism is true. But still wanted a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity which is why he filed a suit. Sure from that POV he is still dependent on TM and MMY. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Uh, no, Jason. His conversion to Catholicism happened years later. I'm not positive, but I believe MIU brought a suit against Robin, and Robin countersued. Robin's suit was not filed to get a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity. Whether MMY considered Robin enlightened was not the issue in Robin's suit; MMY's tape-recorded affidavit was a piece of evidence in the suit. Robin had fully expected MMY to support him against MIU and was astonished when he did not. And Robin wasn't asking for a certificate; he was asking for *certification*--i.e., via MMY's audiotaped affidavit--that he was enlightened and that MMY approved of Robin's modifications of MMY's teaching (including the TM-Sidhis sutras). --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: The point is he wanted MMY to certify his 'enlightened state'. Right. And so...? That's the whole point. I think Xeno or IraniTea or Salyawin can elaborate on it. Why would an 'enlightened man' need certification from another person or org? --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: I suppose this happened after he became the Shankaracharya of North America.? I don't know if became is the right word. I think he appointed himself to that position, presumably with the concurrence of his followers. I'm not sure, but I believe that would have been before the lawsuit.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip I now get a feeling that he tries to hide his illogical points tucked inside inside his voluminious post and further tries to hide it behind rare bombastic words. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Did you have trouble understanding what he wrote that you quote, Jason? --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: If Maharishi posted something on FFL at, I say, at the height of his powers and influence and prestige *we would recognize that this postereven if we didn't know who he was was, in his discussion and analysis of enlightenment, providing the most potent metaphysical subtext of anyone posting on FFL*. Well, then, I had better realize this, shouldn't I, else my irony sensibiity has atrophied something serious since I gave up this enlightenment business. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Oops, Jason, you didn't note that you made a big snip between the above two paragraphs. That's a no-no. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: But more than this, it is not the intelligence which created the universe which has created this state of consciousness; nor does the intelligence which created the universe have anything to do with the actions of the enlightened person I mean in the sense of being the direct and specific cause of those actions, In this sense the cosmic in cosmic consciousness is not cosmic at all. It certainly is a metaphysical power, and perhaps even is being controlled by very powerful intelligences; but those intelligences would be Maharishi's Vedic gods, or personal gods, or impulses of creative intelligence. He contradicts himself again and again. He now states that 'the intelligence which created the universe, has nothing to do with the actions of an enlightened person.' That isn't a contradiction, Jason. You may *disagree* with him, and that's fine. But he's made a clear distinction above between the intelligence which created the universe and the power or intelligences that control the enlightened person's actions. Read it youself above.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip He suddenly decided that catholicism is true. But still wanted a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity which is why he filed a suit. Sure from that POV he is still dependent on TM and MMY. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Uh, no, Jason. His conversion to Catholicism happened years later. I'm not positive, but I believe MIU brought a suit against Robin, and Robin countersued. Robin's suit was not filed to get a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity. Whether MMY considered Robin enlightened was not the issue in Robin's suit; MMY's tape-recorded affidavit was a piece of evidence in the suit. Robin had fully expected MMY to support him against MIU and was astonished when he did not. And Robin wasn't asking for a certificate; he was asking for *certification*--i.e., via MMY's audiotaped affidavit--that he was enlightened and that MMY approved of Robin's modifications of MMY's teaching (including the TM-Sidhis sutras). --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: The point is he wanted MMY to certify his 'enlightened state'. Right. And so...? That's the whole point. I think Xeno or IraniTea or Salyawin can elaborate on it. No, they couldn't. Or if they could, they'd just be telling you what I go on to tell you below. Why would an 'enlightened man' need certification from another person or org? In this case, because Robin's authority to teach his modifications of MMY's programs was being challenged by MIU. So it would need to be on the legal record that MMY approved of what Robin was doing and that he had the credentials (i.e., enlightenment) to do it. Robin had no doubt he was enlightened, nor did his followers. He fully expected MMY to put his stamp of approval on his activities and credentials. MMY did not. Robin was astonished. He's said all this in his posts, Jason.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip I now get a feeling that he tries to hide his illogical points tucked inside inside his voluminious post and further tries to hide it behind rare bombastic words. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Did you have trouble understanding what he wrote that you quote, Jason? --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: If Maharishi posted something on FFL at, I say, at the height of his powers and influence and prestige *we would recognize that this postereven if we didn't know who he was was, in his discussion and analysis of enlightenment, providing the most potent metaphysical subtext of anyone posting on FFL*. Well, then, I had better realize this, shouldn't I, else my irony sensibiity has atrophied something serious since I gave up this enlightenment business. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Oops, Jason, you didn't note that you made a big snip between the above two paragraphs. That's a no-no. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: But more than this, it is not the intelligence which created the universe which has created this state of consciousness; nor does the intelligence which created the universe have anything to do with the actions of the enlightened person I mean in the sense of being the direct and specific cause of those actions, In this sense the cosmic in cosmic consciousness is not cosmic at all. It certainly is a metaphysical power, and perhaps even is being controlled by very powerful intelligences; but those intelligences would be Maharishi's Vedic gods, or personal gods, or impulses of creative intelligence. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He contradicts himself again and again. He now states that 'the intelligence which created the universe, has nothing to do with the actions of an enlightened person.' --- authfriend jstein@... wrote: That isn't a contradiction, Jason. You may *disagree* with him, and that's fine. But he's made a clear distinction above between the intelligence which created the universe and the power or intelligences that control the enlightened person's actions. Read what he wrote below. BTW, talking to you is like talking to a bot. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: By definition Unity Consciousness means the individual intention for one's actions does not start with oneself. It starts with cosmic intelligence. This was very much my experience. So, unless cosmic intelligence decided to make accomplishing the flying sidhi the criterion for Unity Consciousness; that is, cosmic intelligence, in a given moment decided to make someone fly through the flying sidhi, the mere demand that one prove one's enlightenment by being able to fly, well it is absurd. Because it suggests that one's behaviour becomes subject to the control and command of another person. Each and every action of some one who is enlightened is determined by cosmic intelligence, not individual intention separate from this cosmic intelligence.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip I now get a feeling that he tries to hide his illogical points tucked inside inside his voluminious post and further tries to hide it behind rare bombastic words. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Did you have trouble understanding what he wrote that you quote, Jason? --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: If Maharishi posted something on FFL at, I say, at the height of his powers and influence and prestige *we would recognize that this postereven if we didn't know who he was was, in his discussion and analysis of enlightenment, providing the most potent metaphysical subtext of anyone posting on FFL*. Well, then, I had better realize this, shouldn't I, else my irony sensibiity has atrophied something serious since I gave up this enlightenment business. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Oops, Jason, you didn't note that you made a big snip between the above two paragraphs. That's a no-no. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: But more than this, it is not the intelligence which created the universe which has created this state of consciousness; nor does the intelligence which created the universe have anything to do with the actions of the enlightened person I mean in the sense of being the direct and specific cause of those actions, In this sense the cosmic in cosmic consciousness is not cosmic at all. It certainly is a metaphysical power, and perhaps even is being controlled by very powerful intelligences; but those intelligences would be Maharishi's Vedic gods, or personal gods, or impulses of creative intelligence. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He contradicts himself again and again. He now states that 'the intelligence which created the universe, has nothing to do with the actions of an enlightened person.' --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: That isn't a contradiction, Jason. You may *disagree* with him, and that's fine. But he's made a clear distinction above between the intelligence which created the universe and the power or intelligences that control the enlightened person's actions. Read what he wrote below. BTW, talking to you is like talking to a bot. If you only *paid attention*, Jason, you wouldn't get so confused. Below he's explaining *MMY's* definition of Unity Consciousness, and his experience of it while he was enlightened. He no longer believes in what MMY said about it; that's what he explained above. Get it now? --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: By definition Unity Consciousness means the individual intention for one's actions does not start with oneself. It starts with cosmic intelligence. This was very much my experience. So, unless cosmic intelligence decided to make accomplishing the flying sidhi the criterion for Unity Consciousness; that is, cosmic intelligence, in a given moment decided to make someone fly through the flying sidhi, the mere demand that one prove one's enlightenment by being able to fly, well it is absurd. Because it suggests that one's behaviour becomes subject to the control and command of another person. Each and every action of some one who is enlightened is determined by cosmic intelligence, not individual intention separate from this cosmic intelligence.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip He suddenly decided that catholicism is true. But still wanted a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity which is why he filed a suit. Sure from that POV he is still dependent on TM and MMY. Uh, no, Jason. His conversion to Catholicism happened years later. I'm not positive, but I believe MIU brought a suit against Robin, and Robin countersued. Robin's suit was not filed to get a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity. Whether MMY considered Robin enlightened was not the issue in Robin's suit; MMY's tape-recorded affidavit was a piece of evidence in the suit. Robin had fully expected MMY to support him against MIU and was astonished when he did not. And Robin wasn't asking for a certificate; he was asking for *certification*--i.e., via MMY's audiotaped affidavit--that he was enlightened and that MMY approved of Robin's modifications of MMY's teaching (including the TM-Sidhis sutras). Erm, surely if Robin was enlightened the nature would have spontaneously supported his every wish? Just sayin Not necessarily. Not quite that simple. Not necessarily? It's a complete load of bollocks. I was sending up the belief *taught* by Maharishi. If M teaches one thing, tells someone they are enlightened and it ends up in court, something has gone wrong. Whichever way you look at it. I agree. So what went wrong in this instance, and how do you know?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip I now get a feeling that he tries to hide his illogical points tucked inside inside his voluminious post and further tries to hide it behind rare bombastic words. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Did you have trouble understanding what he wrote that you quote, Jason? --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: If Maharishi posted something on FFL at, I say, at the height of his powers and influence and prestige *we would recognize that this postereven if we didn't know who he was was, in his discussion and analysis of enlightenment, providing the most potent metaphysical subtext of anyone posting on FFL*. Well, then, I had better realize this, shouldn't I, else my irony sensibiity has atrophied something serious since --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Oops, Jason, you didn't note that you made a big snip between the above two paragraphs. That's a no-no. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: But more than this, it is not the intelligence which created the universe which has created this state of consciousness; nor does the intelligence which created the universe have anything to do with the actions of the enlightened person I mean in the sense of being the direct and specific cause of those actions, In this sense the cosmic in cosmic consciousness is not cosmic at all. It certainly is a metaphysical power, and perhaps even is being controlled by very powerful intelligences; but those intelligences would be Maharishi's Vedic gods, or personal gods, or impulses of creative intelligence. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He contradicts himself again and again. He now states that 'the intelligence which created the universe, has nothing to do with the actions of an enlightened person.' --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: That isn't a contradiction, Jason. You may *disagree* with him, and that's fine. But he's made a clear distinction above between the intelligence which created the universe and the power or intelligences that control the enlightened person's actions. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Read what he wrote below. BTW, talking to you is like talking to a bot. --- authfriend jstein@... wrote: If you only *paid attention*, Jason, you wouldn't get so confused. Below he's explaining *MMY's* definition of Unity Consciousness, and his experience of it while he was enlightened. He no longer believes in what MMY said about it; that's what he explained above. Get it now? But, he says 'it was very much his experience'. Line number three below. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: By definition Unity Consciousness means the individual intention for one's actions does not start with oneself. It starts with cosmic intelligence. This was very much my experience. So, unless cosmic intelligence decided to make accomplishing the flying sidhi the criterion for Unity Consciousness; that is, cosmic intelligence, in a given moment decided to make someone fly through the flying sidhi, the mere demand that one prove one's enlightenment by being able to fly, well it is absurd. Because it suggests that one's behaviour becomes subject to the control and command of another person. Each and every action of some one who is enlightened is determined by cosmic intelligence, not individual intention separate from this cosmic intelligence.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip I now get a feeling that he tries to hide his illogical points tucked inside inside his voluminious post and further tries to hide it behind rare bombastic words. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Did you have trouble understanding what he wrote that you quote, Jason? --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: If Maharishi posted something on FFL at, I say, at the height of his powers and influence and prestige *we would recognize that this postereven if we didn't know who he was was, in his discussion and analysis of enlightenment, providing the most potent metaphysical subtext of anyone posting on FFL*. Well, then, I had better realize this, shouldn't I, else my irony sensibiity has atrophied something serious since --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Oops, Jason, you didn't note that you made a big snip between the above two paragraphs. That's a no-no. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: But more than this, it is not the intelligence which created the universe which has created this state of consciousness; nor does the intelligence which created the universe have anything to do with the actions of the enlightened person I mean in the sense of being the direct and specific cause of those actions, In this sense the cosmic in cosmic consciousness is not cosmic at all. It certainly is a metaphysical power, and perhaps even is being controlled by very powerful intelligences; but those intelligences would be Maharishi's Vedic gods, or personal gods, or impulses of creative intelligence. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He contradicts himself again and again. He now states that 'the intelligence which created the universe, has nothing to do with the actions of an enlightened person.' --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: That isn't a contradiction, Jason. You may *disagree* with him, and that's fine. But he's made a clear distinction above between the intelligence which created the universe and the power or intelligences that control the enlightened person's actions. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Read what he wrote below. BTW, talking to you is like talking to a bot. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: If you only *paid attention*, Jason, you wouldn't get so confused. Below he's explaining *MMY's* definition of Unity Consciousness, and his experience of it while he was enlightened. He no longer believes in what MMY said about it; that's what he explained above. Get it now? But, he says 'it was very much his experience'. Line number three below. See line numbers two ad three of my paragraph above. And then read the sentence above that beginning If you only *paid attention*... --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: By definition Unity Consciousness means the individual intention for one's actions does not start with oneself. It starts with cosmic intelligence. This was very much my experience. So, unless cosmic intelligence decided to make accomplishing the flying sidhi the criterion for Unity Consciousness; that is, cosmic intelligence, in a given moment decided to make someone fly through the flying sidhi, the mere demand that one prove one's enlightenment by being able to fly, well it is absurd. Because it suggests that one's behaviour becomes subject to the control and command of another person. Each and every action of some one who is enlightened is determined by cosmic intelligence, not individual intention separate from this cosmic intelligence.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip He suddenly decided that catholicism is true. But still wanted a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity which is why he filed a suit. Sure from that POV he is still dependent on TM and MMY. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Uh, no, Jason. His conversion to Catholicism happened years later. I'm not positive, but I believe MIU brought a suit against Robin, and Robin countersued. Robin's suit was not filed to get a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity. Whether MMY considered Robin enlightened was not the issue in Robin's suit; MMY's tape-recorded affidavit was a piece of evidence in the suit. Robin had fully expected MMY to support him against MIU and was astonished when he did not. And Robin wasn't asking for a certificate; he was asking for *certification*--i.e., via MMY's audiotaped affidavit--that he was enlightened and that MMY approved of Robin's modifications of MMY's teaching (including the TM-Sidhis sutras). --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: The point is he wanted MMY to certify his 'enlightened state'. Right. And so...? That's the whole point. I think Xeno or IraniTea or Salyawin can elaborate on it. No, they couldn't. Or if they could, they'd just be telling you what I go on to tell you below. Why would an 'enlightened man' need certification from another person or org? In this case, because Robin's authority to teach his modifications of MMY's programs was being challenged by MIU. So it would need to be on the legal record that MMY approved of what Robin was doing and that he had the credentials (i.e., enlightenment) to do it. Robin had no doubt he was enlightened, nor did his followers. He fully expected MMY to put his stamp of approval on his activities and credentials. MMY did not. Robin was astonished. I can tell you with great certainty that anyone in the TMO back in those days knew very well that MMY would not give someone else approval to modify his teachings and then go out and teach them. MMY was big big big on purity of the teaching. Further, MMY would not go against MIU in a legal battle, given that the university was his own. The fact that Robin was astonished at any of this is troubling. He's said all this in his posts, Jason.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip I now get a feeling that he tries to hide his illogical points tucked inside inside his voluminious post and further tries to hide it behind rare bombastic words. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Did you have trouble understanding what he wrote that you quote, Jason? --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: If Maharishi posted something on FFL at, I say, at the height of his powers and influence and prestige *we would recognize that this postereven if we didn't know who he was was, in his discussion and analysis of enlightenment, providing the most potent metaphysical subtext of anyone posting on FFL*. Well, then, I had better realize this, shouldn't I, else my irony sensibiity has atrophied something serious since --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Oops, Jason, you didn't note that you made a big snip between the above two paragraphs. That's a no-no. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: But more than this, it is not the intelligence which created the universe which has created this state of consciousness; nor does the intelligence which created the universe have anything to do with the actions of the enlightened person I mean in the sense of being the direct and specific cause of those actions, In this sense the cosmic in cosmic consciousness is not cosmic at all. It certainly is a metaphysical power, and perhaps even is being controlled by very powerful intelligences; but those intelligences would be Maharishi's Vedic gods, or personal gods, or impulses of creative intelligence. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He contradicts himself again and again. He now states that 'the intelligence which created the universe, has nothing to do with the actions of an enlightened person.' --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: That isn't a contradiction, Jason. You may *disagree* with him, and that's fine. But he's made a clear distinction above between the intelligence which created the universe and the power or intelligences that control the enlightened person's actions. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Read what he wrote below. BTW, talking to you is like talking to a bot. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: If you only *paid attention*, Jason, you wouldn't get so confused. Below he's explaining *MMY's* definition of Unity Consciousness, and his experience of it while he was enlightened. He no longer believes in what MMY said about it; that's what he explained above. Get it now? --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: But, he says 'it was very much his experience'. Line number three below. --- authfriend jstein@... wrote: See line numbers two ad three of my paragraph above. And then read the sentence above that beginning If you only *paid attention*... The point is it *was* his experience. Now he says this intelligence has nothing to do with the actions of an enlightend man. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: By definition Unity Consciousness means the individual intention for one's actions does not start with oneself. It starts with cosmic intelligence. This was very much my experience. So, unless cosmic intelligence decided to make accomplishing the flying sidhi the criterion for Unity Consciousness; that is, cosmic intelligence, in a given moment decided to make someone fly through the flying sidhi, the mere demand that one prove one's enlightenment by being able to fly, well it is absurd. Because it suggests that one's behaviour becomes subject to the control and command of another person. Each and every action of some one who is enlightened is determined by cosmic intelligence, not individual intention separate from this cosmic intelligence.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: Erm, surely if Robin was enlightened the nature would have spontaneously supported his every wish? Just sayin Not necessarily. Not quite that simple. Not necessarily? It's a complete load of bollocks. I was sending up the belief *taught* by Maharishi. If M teaches one thing, tells someone they are enlightened and it ends up in court, something has gone wrong. Whichever way you look at it. I agree. So what went wrong in this instance, and how do you know? First off, enlightenment aint all it's cracked up to be *or* MMY wasn't enlightened and therefore couldn't judge Robin adequately who couldn't have been enlightened even by Ms standard or he wouldn't have needed or even cared about a court case. I think I was right the first time though: enlightenment aint what we've been taught. And certainly nothing to do with the rest of nature and thus having no effect on it. The whole TMO story seems like a disaster compared to the legend about how great it is to be in the supreme state of consciousness. It must be a great trip but that's all it is I think, and every high has its come down. Look at the last few years of MMYs life and read Robins story, neither of them sell the big E to me but somehow the myths get perpetuated and we're all so needy for it that we take these people at their word that we too can gain the promised land when it isn't really that at all.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: Not necessarily? It's a complete load of bollocks. I was sending up the belief *taught* by Maharishi. If M teaches one thing, tells someone they are enlightened and it ends up in court, something has gone wrong. Whichever way you look at it. MMY asked Robin to describe his valid experiences of Unity to some people is all that I have heard that MMY ever said on the topic of Robin's valid experiences of Unity. Dunno where you got the idea that MMY told Robin that he was enlightened. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
All generalizations are false, including this one. Mark Twain From: Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:12 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:22 AM, Robin Carlsen wrote: I have neverhad a problem being understood. First off, when someone uses absolutes in this way (never, always, etc.), it's rarely true. I seriously doubt that the majority of World Teacher Seminarians really understood your writings but rather shrugged them off as being from an Enlightened TM poster boy and therefore legit and of value. I suspect you leave quite a few people scratching their heads - esp. with unusual idiosyncratic beliefs like the Ruach Ha-Kodesh leaving the RC church after a monastery in an obscure Italian village was bombed or transcendental demons overtaking innocent MIU students or enlightenment-as-a-delusion/hallucination you can recover from. The major thing that has not changed is that there's always some glaring idiosyncratic element in your belief system, whether it be spirit-barren catholic churches or HR Giger meets MIU, that makes your writing hard to swallow, but often still entertaining. Placed against the background of trance channelling TM sidhas, fringe healers and questionable investment schemes that seem to form the background of the sidha social scene it's actually a belief system that's slightly more tenable. But when placed outside that context, it loses the whacky gestalt that hid the zebra in the first place.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Not necessarily? It's a complete load of bollocks. I was sending up the belief *taught* by Maharishi. If M teaches one thing, tells someone they are enlightened and it ends up in court, something has gone wrong. Whichever way you look at it. MMY asked Robin to describe his valid experiences of Unity to some people is all that I have heard that MMY ever said on the topic of Robin's valid experiences of Unity. Dunno where you got the idea that MMY told Robin that he was enlightened. General tenor of the conversation old chap, but I don't really care about whether he was or wasn't or whether Marshy was or wasn't because if they were I will be giving it a miss. I never found Marshy to be an impressive speaker or thinker, in fact it seemed to me like he was making it up as he went along most of the time. Woolly, superstitious, deluded and churning out a bunch of endlessly reinvented buzzwords to persuade the dwindling flock they were on the verge of a breakthrough (and to keep writing the cheques). L
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip He suddenly decided that catholicism is true. But still wanted a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity which is why he filed a suit. Sure from that POV he is still dependent on TM and MMY. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Uh, no, Jason. His conversion to Catholicism happened years later. I'm not positive, but I believe MIU brought a suit against Robin, and Robin countersued. Robin's suit was not filed to get a certificate from MMY that he is in Unity. Whether MMY considered Robin enlightened was not the issue in Robin's suit; MMY's tape-recorded affidavit was a piece of evidence in the suit. Robin had fully expected MMY to support him against MIU and was astonished when he did not. And Robin wasn't asking for a certificate; he was asking for *certification*--i.e., via MMY's audiotaped affidavit--that he was enlightened and that MMY approved of Robin's modifications of MMY's teaching (including the TM-Sidhis sutras). --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: The point is he wanted MMY to certify his 'enlightened state'. Right. And so...? That's the whole point. I think Xeno or IraniTea or Salyawin can elaborate on it. No, they couldn't. Or if they could, they'd just be telling you what I go on to tell you below. Why would an 'enlightened man' need certification from another person or org? In this case, because Robin's authority to teach his modifications of MMY's programs was being challenged by MIU. So it would need to be on the legal record that MMY approved of what Robin was doing and that he had the credentials (i.e., enlightenment) to do it. Robin had no doubt he was enlightened, nor did his followers. He fully expected MMY to put his stamp of approval on his activities and credentials. MMY did not. Robin was astonished. I can tell you with great certainty that anyone in the TMO back in those days knew very well that MMY would not give someone else approval to modify his teachings and then go out and teach them. MMY was big big big on purity of the teaching. Further, MMY would not go against MIU in a legal battle, given that the university was his own. The fact that Robin was astonished at any of this is troubling. It was troubling THEN. You still don't seem to understand that this was 30 years ago and that he's no longer in that weird state. He finds what he did back then as appalling as any of the rest of us. At the time he believed he was favored by Maharishi and that Maharishi would go along with what he wanted to do.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip I now get a feeling that he tries to hide his illogical points tucked inside inside his voluminious post and further tries to hide it behind rare bombastic words. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Did you have trouble understanding what he wrote that you quote, Jason? --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: If Maharishi posted something on FFL at, I say, at the height of his powers and influence and prestige *we would recognize that this postereven if we didn't know who he was was, in his discussion and analysis of enlightenment, providing the most potent metaphysical subtext of anyone posting on FFL*. Well, then, I had better realize this, shouldn't I, else my irony sensibiity has atrophied something serious since --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: Oops, Jason, you didn't note that you made a big snip between the above two paragraphs. That's a no-no. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: But more than this, it is not the intelligence which created the universe which has created this state of consciousness; nor does the intelligence which created the universe have anything to do with the actions of the enlightened person I mean in the sense of being the direct and specific cause of those actions, In this sense the cosmic in cosmic consciousness is not cosmic at all. It certainly is a metaphysical power, and perhaps even is being controlled by very powerful intelligences; but those intelligences would be Maharishi's Vedic gods, or personal gods, or impulses of creative intelligence. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He contradicts himself again and again. He now states that 'the intelligence which created the universe, has nothing to do with the actions of an enlightened person.' --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: That isn't a contradiction, Jason. You may *disagree* with him, and that's fine. But he's made a clear distinction above between the intelligence which created the universe and the power or intelligences that control the enlightened person's actions. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Read what he wrote below. BTW, talking to you is like talking to a bot. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: If you only *paid attention*, Jason, you wouldn't get so confused. Below he's explaining *MMY's* definition of Unity Consciousness, and his experience of it while he was enlightened. He no longer believes in what MMY said about it; that's what he explained above. Get it now? --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: But, he says 'it was very much his experience'. Line number three below. --- authfriend jstein@ wrote: See line numbers two ad three of my paragraph above. And then read the sentence above that beginning If you only *paid attention*... The point is it *was* his experience. Now he says this intelligence has nothing to do with the actions of an enlightend man. Right. And so...? --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: By definition Unity Consciousness means the individual intention for one's actions does not start with oneself. It starts with cosmic intelligence. This was very much my experience. So, unless cosmic intelligence decided to make accomplishing the flying sidhi the criterion for Unity Consciousness; that is, cosmic intelligence, in a given moment decided to make someone fly through the flying sidhi, the mere demand that one prove one's enlightenment by being able to fly, well it is absurd. Because it suggests that one's behaviour becomes subject to the control and command of another person. Each and every action of some one who is enlightened is determined by cosmic intelligence, not individual intention separate from this cosmic intelligence.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: Erm, surely if Robin was enlightened the nature would have spontaneously supported his every wish? Just sayin Not necessarily. Not quite that simple. Not necessarily? It's a complete load of bollocks. I was sending up the belief *taught* by Maharishi. If M teaches one thing, tells someone they are enlightened and it ends up in court, something has gone wrong. Whichever way you look at it. I agree. So what went wrong in this instance, and how do you know? First off, enlightenment aint all it's cracked up to be Robin would agree with you. *or* MMY wasn't enlightened and therefore couldn't judge Robin adequately who couldn't have been enlightened even by Ms standard or he wouldn't have needed or even cared about a court case. Not necessarily the case. As I said, it's more complicated than that. I think I was right the first time though: enlightenment aint what we've been taught. And certainly nothing to do with the rest of nature and thus having no effect on it. The whole TMO story seems like a disaster compared to the legend about how great it is to be in the supreme state of consciousness. It must be a great trip but that's all it is I think, and every high has its come down. Look at the last few years of MMYs life and read Robins story, neither of them sell the big E to me but somehow the myths get perpetuated and we're all so needy for it that we take these people at their word that we too can gain the promised land when it isn't really that at all. Well, that wouldn't include *Robin's* word. He now thinks the whole business is a snare and a delusion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: snip MMY asked Robin to describe his valid experiences of Unity to some people is all that I have heard that MMY ever said on the topic of Robin's valid experiences of Unity. Dunno where you got the idea that MMY told Robin that he was enlightened. FWIW, here's Robin's account: ...It was at the point of my uttering the words 'About six days ago, Maharishi, I awoke from the spell of ignorance, and I have been living the simple life of Unity ever since' that I received the full grace of the Master, the grace seemingly beyond the grace of Unityas Maharishi responded 'Congratulations, you are the first governor of the Age of Enlightenment, we'll talk about it later when the cameras are here' (several days later) ...I approached the microphone, this time standing right beside the couch upon which Maharishi sat cross-legged, and began my description of the change that had taken place since I last had announced to him my awakening into Unity. As the words flowed out Maharishi responded with warmth and joviality, smiling, laughing, then listening in rapt silence as I distinguished between the fragility of Unity--the delicacy and quietness my nervous system and personality felt in relation to this new dimension of wholeness--and the robustness of a warrior. I also added how utterly natural and normal the whole experience of Unity and 'Unity plus' (the name I coined to categorize my recent experience) seemed, and, being played as I was for the benefit of the whole group as well as within the special relationship that exists between the enlightened disciple and his Master, I asked 'Where am I now, Maharishi?' The reply 'Oh, somewhere within the layers of wholeness' conveyed with the utter blessing and confirmational tone that would satisfy the most doubtful person in the audience that I was indeed established in God. (Maharishi several months later added the word 'established' in answer to a question regarding my status.)... --The Sunnyside Drama: The First Three Years of Enlightenment And then, according to Robin, for the next seven years as Robin was running around being the enlightened man and gathering followers (mostly TM initiators), MMY kept close tabs on what he was doing--including a personal phone call and interactions between Robin and MMY's advisers (at one point MMY even sent a representative to stay in the local TM center and monitor Robin's activities) --and never once suggested Robin wasn't in the state he believed himself to be in. Point being, whatever MMY actually thought, he never gave Robin any reason to believe MMY didn't support him fully--until the MIU court case and the recorded affidavit.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
See correction to my previous response below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip Why would an 'enlightened man' need certification from another person or org? In this case, because Robin's authority to teach his modifications of MMY's programs was being challenged by MIU. So it would need to be on the legal record that MMY approved of what Robin was doing and that he had the credentials (i.e., enlightenment) to do it. Robin had no doubt he was enlightened, nor did his followers. He fully expected MMY to put his stamp of approval on his activities and credentials. MMY did not. Robin was astonished. I can tell you with great certainty that anyone in the TMO back in those days knew very well that MMY would not give someone else approval to modify his teachings and then go out and teach them. MMY was big big big on purity of the teaching. Further, MMY would not go against MIU in a legal battle, given that the university was his own. The fact that Robin was astonished at any of this is troubling. It was troubling THEN. You still don't seem to understand that this was 30 years ago and that he's no longer in that weird state. He finds what he did back then as appalling as any of the rest of us. Appalling is probably the wrong word here. Here's how Robin has characterized this particular series of events: Those questions put to Maharishi (and the sounds he made in answer to them) are part of an incredibly complicated legal and dramatic conflict between MIU and the Movement I was creating. When (as it were) a gun was put to Maharishi's head, he refused pointblank to endorse my tampering with the Sidhis by acknowledging my enlightenment. The questions were designed to extort from Maharishi a response which would have meant the destruction of the purity of The Teaching. By his perfunctory answers (to speak euphemistically) he gave expression to his extreme unhappiness that I by my sincere but quixotic actions had created in him. The tape of his responsesplayed in court by Bevan Morriswas strangely and inexplicably unsatisfactory. Nevertheless, the questionsall about my putative enlightenment and my right to amend the sidhiswere answered (if one can count audible short grunts as answers) in the negative. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/280381 At the time he believed he was favored by Maharishi and that Maharishi would go along with what he wanted to do.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
I feel you have exposed me for who I really am, for what I am really up to. Would you just answer one question: How was it I was able to keep everyone else from realizing I was so dependent on Maharishi (and using him shamelessly to enhance my own prestige) whereas you saw right through me and have left me powerless to defend myself? Because all that I can say is: Barry, you're wrong; but I can't provide any proof of this because you have a hold of the truth about me. It feels good, Barry; it really does. This is why Catholicism worked for me for awhile: God likes a broken and contrite heart. I promise from here on in to leave Maharishi out of it, and see whether I can rebuild my reputation upon some other more legitimate foundation. Only excuse I have, Barry, is that I thought Maharishi the most beautiful and impressive and holiest human I had ever met, and I thought if I followed his teaching conscientiously I might achieve what he held out as the most glorious goal of all: enlightenment. He delivered on this promise and he remains the most important person in my lifeas he was for you too for all those years, until you found Frederick Lenz. I think Maharishi will remain the most important person in my life, even as I have unreservedly rejected him as my Master, and even as a human being who was in possession of the truth, let alone the embodiment of truth. But he was Christ for me. I think, for good or for evil, Maharishi the most remarkable human being of the twentieth century, and maybe the most significant human being since Christ. But my only reason for my obsession with him is to tantalize my readers at FFL and keep them hanging on my every word. I love you for being this truthful, Barry, and when I am a big enough man I will prove to you that I can survive without ever mentioning Maharishi again. Please do not give up on me, and know how powerfully you have thus affected me with this post. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: I would not call Robin the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. I haven't been following anything that led up to someone saying this, but that's the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Robin is *completely dependent* on both TM and Maharishi. His entire story would be meaningless without both of them. He still praises Maharishi and calls him enlightened because if he didn't, and MMY was a nobody, then Robin's *entire claim to fame* is worthless; a nobody once hinted that he (Robin) was enlightened. Besides, Robin depends, for his entire audience, on people who revolve around Maharishi. No one else would pay any attention to him or consider him worth listening to or reading. His exploits in the 80s depend *entirely* on having either Maharishi or MIU to react against. Whoever said what Susan is responding to is an idiot. Robin couldn't go five minutes when trying to impress TMers or former TMers without mentioning Maharishi. He is more dependent on the man than anyone who has ever appeared on Fairfield Life. Maharishi is in a very literal sense Robin's crutch, and will always be.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
Green tinted Soma, pressed between the boards has been let loose, like a chariot-horse, upon the straining-cloth-- the courser steps out on the Fairyfield welcome the gods at our FFL exchange rite and overcome the demons and make us happy. Drive off in abundant might our demon foes Congratulations, you are the first governor of the Age of Enlightenment, MZ by constantly hand raising trying to grasp the Universal Self beautifully described in The Story of King Ashvapati reaching out to Satyaloka , ignoring the refine intimate private Mahavakyautterance the gentle-stroke-finger-tip-touch of knowledge described by MMY so beautiful years early after a discussion of the checking point design and revisions presented by the appointed group . As fire is concealed by ashes, sword by the scabbard, sun by the clouds, fetus by the amnion, rubies by the earth, mattress by the bed sheet, so also, Brahman is concealed by flesh and bones in MZ. May all you awake from the spell of ignorance, and are living the simple life of Unity ever after, now. Filled to the brim with the White and Black Stripes of Being, and the radiance of his presence. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: snip MMY asked Robin to describe his valid experiences of Unity to some people is all that I have heard that MMY ever said on the topic of Robin's valid experiences of Unity. Dunno where you got the idea that MMY told Robin that he was enlightened. FWIW, here's Robin's account: ...It was at the point of my uttering the words 'About six days ago, Maharishi, I awoke from the spell of ignorance, and I have been living the simple life of Unity ever since' that I received the full grace of the Master, the grace seemingly beyond the grace of Unityas Maharishi responded 'Congratulations, you are the first governor of the Age of Enlightenment, we'll talk about it later when the cameras are here' (several days later) ...I approached the microphone, this time standing right beside the couch upon which Maharishi sat cross-legged, and began my description of the change that had taken place since I last had announced to him my awakening into Unity. As the words flowed out Maharishi responded with warmth and joviality, smiling, laughing, then listening in rapt silence as I distinguished between the fragility of Unity--the delicacy and quietness my nervous system and personality felt in relation to this new dimension of wholeness--and the robustness of a warrior. I also added how utterly natural and normal the whole experience of Unity and 'Unity plus' (the name I coined to categorize my recent experience) seemed, and, being played as I was for the benefit of the whole group as well as within the special relationship that exists between the enlightened disciple and his Master, I asked 'Where am I now, Maharishi?' The reply 'Oh, somewhere within the layers of wholeness' conveyed with the utter blessing and confirmational tone that would satisfy the most doubtful person in the audience that I was indeed established in God. (Maharishi several months later added the word 'established' in answer to a question regarding my status.)... --The Sunnyside Drama: The First Three Years of Enlightenment And then, according to Robin, for the next seven years as Robin was running around being the enlightened man and gathering followers (mostly TM initiators), MMY kept close tabs on what he was doing--including a personal phone call and interactions between Robin and MMY's advisers (at one point MMY even sent a representative to stay in the local TM center and monitor Robin's activities) --and never once suggested Robin wasn't in the state he believed himself to be in. Point being, whatever MMY actually thought, he never gave Robin any reason to believe MMY didn't support him fully--until the MIU court case and the recorded affidavit.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: [...] Point being, whatever MMY actually thought, he never gave Robin any reason to believe MMY didn't support him fully--until the MIU court case and the recorded affidavit. The story I heard was that there was a lot of stuff going on that Robin doesn't mention, such as Robin's followers buzzing the Domes with a helicopter, dropping leaflets, and riding a jeep over the flowerbeds in order to track people down and confront them. This lead to a lawsuit where Robin was banned from setting foot on the MIU campus. I assume the counter lawsuit is the one he talks about. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: ...is apparently indistinguishable from random word strings: http:// www.wisdomofchopra.com/ Perceptual reality is the path to reckless facts - Wisdom of Chopra Ha! That is seriously priceless, I got: Perceptual reality arises and subsides in cosmic reality Lawson, Judy and Robin will be arguing the veracity of that all night if we don't tell them where it came from.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: ...is apparently indistinguishable from random word strings: http:// www.wisdomofchopra.com/ Perceptual reality is the path to reckless facts - Wisdom of Chopra The ego is the wisdom of an expression of joy Interdependence projects onto your own possibilities Orderliness arises and subsides in unbridled opportunities My God, that's brilliant! All they need to do now is make coin-operated animatronic Chopras and place them strategically in various wooville locales, like Santa Fe, Sedona, Fairfield, Asheville NC, etc.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: ...is apparently indistinguishable from random word strings: http:// www.wisdomofchopra.com/ Perceptual reality is the path to reckless facts - Wisdom of Chopra Ha! That is seriously priceless, I got: Perceptual reality arises and subsides in cosmic reality Lawson, Judy and Robin will be arguing the veracity of that all night if we don't tell them where it came from. Greatness transcends quantum facts The unpredictable is inherent in visible knowledge Wholeness is the continuity of total sensations It's almost *too* uncanny to be false.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
On Jun 18, 2012, at 1:38 PM, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: ...is apparently indistinguishable from random word strings: http:// www.wisdomofchopra.com/ Perceptual reality is the path to reckless facts - Wisdom of Chopra Ha! That is seriously priceless, I got: Perceptual reality arises and subsides in cosmic reality Lawson, Judy and Robin will be arguing the veracity of that all night if we don't tell them where it came from. Quantum physics explains unique experiences
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
On Jun 18, 2012, at 1:52 PM, salyavin808 wrote: Greatness transcends quantum facts I've always said that. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: ...is apparently indistinguishable from random word strings: http://www.wisdomofchopra.com/ Perceptual reality is the path to reckless facts - Wisdom of Chopra Ha! That is seriously priceless, I got: Perceptual reality arises and subsides in cosmic reality Lawson, Judy and Robin will be arguing the veracity of that all night if we don't tell them where it came from. It *would* have been much funnier if the first person to discover this site had simply posted the quotes themselves, followed by - The Wisdom Of Chopra. Brilliant idea for a parody. Curtis would just love it. All that you need in the New Age community to pass for wisdom is a bunch of buzzwords, strung together at random. My quote, cosmically enough, was The world requires ephemeral sexual energy. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: ...is apparently indistinguishable from random word strings: http://www.wisdomofchopra.com/ Perceptual reality is the path to reckless facts - Wisdom of Chopra Ha! That is seriously priceless, I got: Perceptual reality arises and subsides in cosmic reality Lawson, Judy and Robin will be arguing the veracity of that all night if we don't tell them where it came from. It *would* have been much funnier if the first person to discover this site had simply posted the quotes themselves, followed by - The Wisdom Of Chopra. Brilliant idea for a parody. Curtis would just love it. All that you need in the New Age community to pass for wisdom is a bunch of buzzwords, strung together at random. My quote, cosmically enough, was The world requires ephemeral sexual energy. :-) I got this: Unless what he was referring to was mistakes *from the cosmic perspective*, not the human perspective. Oh no wait, that was Judy from earlier.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: ...is apparently indistinguishable from random word strings: http://www.wisdomofchopra.com/ Perceptual reality is the path to reckless facts - Wisdom of Chopra Ha! That is seriously priceless, I got: Perceptual reality arises and subsides in cosmic reality Lawson, Judy and Robin will be arguing the veracity of that all night if we don't tell them where it came from. It *would* have been much funnier if the first person to discover this site had simply posted the quotes themselves, followed by - The Wisdom Of Chopra. Brilliant idea for a parody. Curtis would just love it. All that you need in the New Age community to pass for wisdom is a bunch of buzzwords, strung together at random. My quote, cosmically enough, was The world requires ephemeral sexual energy. :-) I got this: Unless what he was referring to was mistakes *from the cosmic perspective*, not the human perspective. Oh no wait, that was Judy from earlier. It's easy to get confused. You know those Synopsize programs that are available to parse a long report or text and render it down to the shortest possible version for busy executives? There's even one built into Microsoft Word, and it's fun to run various texts through it to see what you get. I haven't tried running a long block of Chopra text through it, but I did paste in one of Robin's 1,500- word treatises, and what it gave me as a synopsis was, What I thought was enlightenment really wasn't, except that it really was, or I wouldn't have thought it. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
On Jun 18, 2012, at 2:37 PM, turquoiseb wrote: I haven't tried running a long block of Chopra text through it, but I did paste in one of Robin's 1,500- word treatises, and what it gave me as a synopsis was, What I thought was enlightenment really wasn't, except that it really was, or I wouldn't have thought it. :-) God, you should read The Discovery of Grace then. It sounds like someone put SCI and Wittgenstein into a blender and then pasted it into a book.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jun 18, 2012, at 2:37 PM, turquoiseb wrote: I haven't tried running a long block of Chopra text through it, but I did paste in one of Robin's 1,500- word treatises, and what it gave me as a synopsis was, What I thought was enlightenment really wasn't, except that it really was, or I wouldn't have thought it. :-) God, you should read The Discovery of Grace then. It sounds like someone put SCI and Wittgenstein into a blender and then pasted it into a book. Let me guess. The whole book is one long paragraph, right? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jun 18, 2012, at 2:37 PM, turquoiseb wrote: I haven't tried running a long block of Chopra text through it, but I did paste in one of Robin's 1,500- word treatises, and what it gave me as a synopsis was, What I thought was enlightenment really wasn't, except that it really was, or I wouldn't have thought it. :-) God, you should read The Discovery of Grace then. It sounds like someone put SCI and Wittgenstein into a blender and then pasted it into a book. That would be one of the books Robin now says were so bad they should be burned, I believe. Funny Vaj doesn't mention that, isn't it? I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. Why is it that they go after him for having been a TB decades ago rather than congratulating him for having seen the light and rejected it all, as they would any other disillusioned former TMer who showed up here? It's really quite mysterious.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
Maybe it's a guy thing (-: From: authfriend jst...@panix.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 2:13 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jun 18, 2012, at 2:37 PM, turquoiseb wrote: I haven't tried running a long block of Chopra text through it, but I did paste in one of Robin's 1,500- word treatises, and what it gave me as a synopsis was, What I thought was enlightenment really wasn't, except that it really was, or I wouldn't have thought it. :-) God, you should read The Discovery of Grace then. It sounds like someone put SCI and Wittgenstein into a blender and then pasted it into a book. That would be one of the books Robin now says were so bad they should be burned, I believe. Funny Vaj doesn't mention that, isn't it? I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. Why is it that they go after him for having been a TB decades ago rather than congratulating him for having seen the light and rejected it all, as they would any other disillusioned former TMer who showed up here? It's really quite mysterious.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Maybe it's a guy thing (-: I think it's because Interdependence arises and subsides in humble opportunities From: authfriend jstein@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 2:13 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jun 18, 2012, at 2:37 PM, turquoiseb wrote: I haven't tried running a long block of Chopra text through it, but I did paste in one of Robin's 1,500- word treatises, and what it gave me as a synopsis was, What I thought was enlightenment really wasn't, except that it really was, or I wouldn't have thought it. :-) God, you should read The Discovery of Grace then. It sounds like someone put SCI and Wittgenstein into a blender and then pasted it into a book. That would be one of the books Robin now says were so bad they should be burned, I believe. Funny Vaj doesn't mention that, isn't it? I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. Why is it that they go after him for having been a TB decades ago rather than congratulating him for having seen the light and rejected it all, as they would any other disillusioned former TMer who showed up here? It's really quite mysterious.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
I think it's because Life Is Always Helping Us Live The Reality That We Are (-: From: salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 3:43 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Maybe it's a guy thing (-: I think it's because Interdependence arises and subsides in humble opportunities From: authfriend jstein@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 2:13 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jun 18, 2012, at 2:37 PM, turquoiseb wrote: I haven't tried running a long block of Chopra text through it, but I did paste in one of Robin's 1,500- word treatises, and what it gave me as a synopsis was, What I thought was enlightenment really wasn't, except that it really was, or I wouldn't have thought it. :-) God, you should read The Discovery of Grace then. It sounds like someone put SCI and Wittgenstein into a blender and then pasted it into a book. That would be one of the books Robin now says were so bad they should be burned, I believe. Funny Vaj doesn't mention that, isn't it? I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. Why is it that they go after him for having been a TB decades ago rather than congratulating him for having seen the light and rejected it all, as they would any other disillusioned former TMer who showed up here? It's really quite mysterious.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I think it's because Life Is Always Helping Us Live The Reality That We Are (-: I'm so happy that, after all these years, we've found a use for Deepak Chopra. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 3:43 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Maybe it's a guy thing (-: I think it's because Interdependence arises and subsides in humble opportunities From: authfriend jstein@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 2:13 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra... ÃÂ --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jun 18, 2012, at 2:37 PM, turquoiseb wrote: I haven't tried running a long block of Chopra text through it, but I did paste in one of Robin's 1,500- word treatises, and what it gave me as a synopsis was, What I thought was enlightenment really wasn't, except that it really was, or I wouldn't have thought it. :-) God, you should read The Discovery of Grace then. It sounds like someone put SCI and Wittgenstein into a blender and then pasted it into a book. That would be one of the books Robin now says were so bad they should be burned, I believe. Funny Vaj doesn't mention that, isn't it? I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. Why is it that they go after him for having been a TB decades ago rather than congratulating him for having seen the light and rejected it all, as they would any other disillusioned former TMer who showed up here? It's really quite mysterious.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. Why is it that they go after him for having been a TB decades ago rather than congratulating him for having seen the light and rejected it all, as they would any other disillusioned former TMer who showed up here? It's really quite mysterious. I can't speak for Vaj and Barry here, but you force me another time to respond to you in a thread. I am NOT an anti-TMer. I am not anti Maharishi. Vis a vis Robin, Maharishi is a shining light of clarity. Maharishi was a trickster, yes, he used deception, but I believe whatever he did, he deemed it necessary at the time, and he succeeded in making meditation popular, in putting so many people on the path, I also think that TM ultimately is a good technique - and you should know this, didn't I tell you that I recently initiated? So, with all critique, I see him in an overall way on the positive side. I think he was 'enlightened', yes, but I cannot prove it, and I don't think he was the most enlightened person of this century or history, nor that TM is the fastest way, or the best meditation technique. I just think that it is A technique, not the fastest, there indeed is no fastest path. There is no doubt at all, that I don't see the eastern path, Vedanta, or any of the related paths, as delusional. These statements are delusional, and I cannot imagine how anybody seriously involved on the path of Vedanta, could even give room to them. I can only congratulate Xeno for the brilliant exposition he just gave to Robin. There is nothing to be added to what he just said. This is true wisdom as against some pseudo-intellectual imposition. I will never understand, how you could fall for this stupidity.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. Why is it that they go after him for having been a TB decades ago rather than congratulating him for having seen the light and rejected it all, as they would any other disillusioned former TMer who showed up here? It's really quite mysterious. I can't speak for Vaj and Barry here, but you force me another time to respond to you in a thread. I am NOT an anti-TMer. I am not anti Maharishi. I did not say you were either an anti-TMer or anti-Maharishi, iranitea. Try reading what you're commenting on, eh? And no, I didn't force you to respond to me. It was entirely your choice. snip I can only congratulate Xeno for the brilliant exposition he just gave to Robin. There is nothing to be added to what he just said. This is true wisdom as against some pseudo- intellectual imposition. I will never understand, how you could fall for this stupidity. horselaugh
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. I would not call Robin the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. I think he got totally overwhelmed by and maybe even frightened by the powerful, heady, incredible and strange experiences he was having. He calls it Unity, altho I would guess it was not quite that but had a flavor of that and - given that he was totally devoted to meditation and MMY- he saw life and his new experiences thru that lens and labeled it Unity/Enlightenment. It did not help that apparently some people working with MMY went along with that for a while. Logically (altho who am I to know what is right) I think what was needed at that time was for MMY to help Robin deal with what was happening to him and to guide him back to a balanced and stable state, if at all possible. But people having difficulties rarely if ever got direction from Maharishi. Maybe MMY could not help him calm down and integrate what was going on. Maybe no one could, and Robin just had to go thru it before it ended. People do have experiences similar to those Robin has described, and they don't label it Unity because they never heard of the term. Robin could certainly speak for himself, but I don't see him as anti-TM in the same way, say, Vaj is . I See Robin as still wondering about, in awe of, missing the excitement and rush of seeming to know everything - but relieved to be more steady and himself. I can understand why he has fled anything Vedic or Indian and embraced Christianity as safer and more true for him. Amazing as they were, his possibly TM-induced experiences were cutting him off from his sanity and a normal life. So, from what I have seen, the TM critic agenda for most folks on FFL has to do with money, sex, feeling used or betrayed, discomfort with the politics of the organization, wondering about the validity of the lineage and the techniques. I don't think Robin cares about those issues. He just knows that if TM leads to the experience he calls Unity, then watch out, folks. The bliss and energy and aliveness and love for MMY were not, in the end, worth it. Why is it that they go after him for having been a TB decades ago rather than congratulating him for having seen the light and rejected it all, as they would any other disillusioned former TMer who showed up here? It's really quite mysterious. I can't speak for Vaj and Barry here, but you force me another time to respond to you in a thread. I am NOT an anti-TMer. I am not anti Maharishi. I did not say you were either an anti-TMer or anti-Maharishi, iranitea. Try reading what you're commenting on, eh? And no, I didn't force you to respond to me. It was entirely your choice. snip I can only congratulate Xeno for the brilliant exposition he just gave to Robin. There is nothing to be added to what he just said. This is true wisdom as against some pseudo- intellectual imposition. I will never understand, how you could fall for this stupidity. horselaugh
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. Susan, I don't know where to start with this. From what Robin himself has described on FFL, your account is so NOT what he experienced. Hopefully he'll set you straight shortly, but in the meantime let me just make a few factual points: As far as he was concerned, he was not having any difficulties, not until near the very end of the 10 years. He didn't embrace Catholicism because it made him feel safer but because it appeared to him to be truer to reality. Only over time, as I understand it, did he come to believe that metaphysical forces preside over TM that do not have humankind's best interests at heart. And he rejected Catholicism a few years after he embraced it. Complaints about money, sex, feeling used or betrayed, discomfort with the politics of the organization, wondering about the validity of the lineage and the techniques are nowhere near as extreme as Robin's indictment of TM. Gonna stop here and let Robin take over when he shows up, make any necessary corrections to what I've said, and help you form a more accurate picture. I would not call Robin the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. I think he got totally overwhelmed by and maybe even frightened by the powerful, heady, incredible and strange experiences he was having. He calls it Unity, altho I would guess it was not quite that but had a flavor of that and - given that he was totally devoted to meditation and MMY- he saw life and his new experiences thru that lens and labeled it Unity/Enlightenment. It did not help that apparently some people working with MMY went along with that for a while. Logically (altho who am I to know what is right) I think what was needed at that time was for MMY to help Robin deal with what was happening to him and to guide him back to a balanced and stable state, if at all possible. But people having difficulties rarely if ever got direction from Maharishi. Maybe MMY could not help him calm down and integrate what was going on. Maybe no one could, and Robin just had to go thru it before it ended. People do have experiences similar to those Robin has described, and they don't label it Unity because they never heard of the term. Robin could certainly speak for himself, but I don't see him as anti-TM in the same way, say, Vaj is . I See Robin as still wondering about, in awe of, missing the excitement and rush of seeming to know everything - but relieved to be more steady and himself. I can understand why he has fled anything Vedic or Indian and embraced Christianity as safer and more true for him. Amazing as they were, his possibly TM-induced experiences were cutting him off from his sanity and a normal life. So, from what I have seen, the TM critic agenda for most folks on FFL has to do with money, sex, feeling used or betrayed, discomfort with the politics of the organization, wondering about the validity of the lineage and the techniques. I don't think Robin cares about those issues. He just knows that if TM leads to the experience he calls Unity, then watch out, folks. The bliss and energy and aliveness and love for MMY were not, in the end, worth it. Why is it that they go after him for having been a TB decades ago rather than congratulating him for having seen the light and rejected it all, as they would any other disillusioned former TMer who showed up here? It's really quite mysterious. I can't speak for Vaj and Barry here, but you force me another time to respond to you in a thread. I am NOT an anti-TMer. I am not anti Maharishi. I did not say you were either an anti-TMer or anti-Maharishi, iranitea. Try reading what you're commenting on, eh? And no, I didn't force you to respond to me. It was entirely your choice. snip I can only congratulate Xeno for the brilliant exposition he just gave to Robin. There is nothing to be added to what he just said. This is true wisdom as against some pseudo- intellectual imposition. I will never understand, how you could fall for this stupidity. horselaugh
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
Judy, I admit to not having followed all of Robin's history. From what I have gleaned by reading parts of some of his posts, my take was what I wrote. But if I am wrong, no offense is taken by me. I thought Robin stlll aligned himself with Catholicism/Christianity. And I still sense some affection for Maharishi from him. I wondered if he isn't ambivalent about his entire experience rather than genuinely anti-TM. But if you are right that he feels metaphysical forces preside over TM that are not in the best interests of humankind, well that is a huge indictment of TM. In that case, what I have thought was ambivalence is probably just nostalgia for the good things in the past. As you say, Robin can set the record straight. Or maybe he feels he already has done so here many times. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. Susan, I don't know where to start with this. From what Robin himself has described on FFL, your account is so NOT what he experienced. Hopefully he'll set you straight shortly, but in the meantime let me just make a few factual points: As far as he was concerned, he was not having any difficulties, not until near the very end of the 10 years. He didn't embrace Catholicism because it made him feel safer but because it appeared to him to be truer to reality. Only over time, as I understand it, did he come to believe that metaphysical forces preside over TM that do not have humankind's best interests at heart. And he rejected Catholicism a few years after he embraced it. Complaints about money, sex, feeling used or betrayed, discomfort with the politics of the organization, wondering about the validity of the lineage and the techniques are nowhere near as extreme as Robin's indictment of TM. Gonna stop here and let Robin take over when he shows up, make any necessary corrections to what I've said, and help you form a more accurate picture. I would not call Robin the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. I think he got totally overwhelmed by and maybe even frightened by the powerful, heady, incredible and strange experiences he was having. He calls it Unity, altho I would guess it was not quite that but had a flavor of that and - given that he was totally devoted to meditation and MMY- he saw life and his new experiences thru that lens and labeled it Unity/Enlightenment. It did not help that apparently some people working with MMY went along with that for a while. Logically (altho who am I to know what is right) I think what was needed at that time was for MMY to help Robin deal with what was happening to him and to guide him back to a balanced and stable state, if at all possible. But people having difficulties rarely if ever got direction from Maharishi. Maybe MMY could not help him calm down and integrate what was going on. Maybe no one could, and Robin just had to go thru it before it ended. People do have experiences similar to those Robin has described, and they don't label it Unity because they never heard of the term. Robin could certainly speak for himself, but I don't see him as anti-TM in the same way, say, Vaj is . I See Robin as still wondering about, in awe of, missing the excitement and rush of seeming to know everything - but relieved to be more steady and himself. I can understand why he has fled anything Vedic or Indian and embraced Christianity as safer and more true for him. Amazing as they were, his possibly TM-induced experiences were cutting him off from his sanity and a normal life. So, from what I have seen, the TM critic agenda for most folks on FFL has to do with money, sex, feeling used or betrayed, discomfort with the politics of the organization, wondering about the validity of the lineage and the techniques. I don't think Robin cares about those issues. He just knows that if TM leads to the experience he calls Unity, then watch out, folks. The bliss and energy and aliveness and love for MMY were not, in the end, worth it. Why is it that they go after him for having been a TB decades ago rather than congratulating him for having seen the light and rejected it all, as they would any other disillusioned former TMer who showed up here? It's really quite mysterious. I can't speak for
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
Judy, I note in reading through your posts today that you seem to have an objective understanding of what I am saying. It's like you translate me accurately; and yet there are all these other reactions, which seem to me to have virtually no correspondence to what I write. I don't seek a favourable judgment of my posts; but I do expect some coherent and truthful reading of just what I am saying. You, it seems, are attempting to understand me. And inside that understanding were you to say: You are wrong, Robin; I disagree with you; I would be sympathetic to you. But the interpretations of me, of my writing, of my posts, of my history by some others here at FFL just seems perverse, even if in some cases it may be innocent. I have never had a problem being understood. But since I came back onto FFL the misreading of my posts seems incomprehensible to me. Meanwhile you seem to want to understand me. And I appreciate your attempts to edify other persons who simply get me wrong. Like my Simone Weil post: a person could form a true estimate of my entire philosophyand to come extent even the kind of person I amfrom that one post. But this is my fate, I suppose. You must be an editor or something, because you attempt to discern what the writer is really saying. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jun 18, 2012, at 2:37 PM, turquoiseb wrote: I haven't tried running a long block of Chopra text through it, but I did paste in one of Robin's 1,500- word treatises, and what it gave me as a synopsis was, What I thought was enlightenment really wasn't, except that it really was, or I wouldn't have thought it. :-) God, you should read The Discovery of Grace then. It sounds like someone put SCI and Wittgenstein into a blender and then pasted it into a book. That would be one of the books Robin now says were so bad they should be burned, I believe. Funny Vaj doesn't mention that, isn't it? I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. Why is it that they go after him for having been a TB decades ago rather than congratulating him for having seen the light and rejected it all, as they would any other disillusioned former TMer who showed up here? It's really quite mysterious.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
R --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. Susan, I don't know where to start with this. From what Robin himself has described on FFL, your account is so NOT what he experienced. Hopefully he'll set you straight shortly, but in the meantime let me just make a few factual points: As far as he was concerned, he was not having any difficulties, not until near the very end of the 10 years. He didn't embrace Catholicism because it made him feel safer but because it appeared to him to be truer to reality. Only over time, as I understand it, did he come to believe that metaphysical forces preside over TM that do not have humankind's best interests at heart. And he rejected Catholicism a few years after he embraced it. Complaints about money, sex, feeling used or betrayed, discomfort with the politics of the organization, wondering about the validity of the lineage and the techniques are nowhere near as extreme as Robin's indictment of TM. Gonna stop here and let Robin take over when he shows up, make any necessary corrections to what I've said, and help you form a more accurate picture. Susan: I would not call Robin the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. I think he got totally overwhelmed by and maybe even frightened by the powerful, heady, incredible and strange experiences he was having. Robin: The clarity, the intelligence, the coherence, the perfection, the grace, the love, and the rightness of the experience of going into Unity, Susan, and functioning from that level of consciousness made me appear to be, and I was, based upon my own experience, the most stable and well-adjusted person I have ever met, Maharishi excepted. Nothing strange about it at allexcept it was so very different from ordinary waking state. Ignorance. But I experienced I was playing a Stradivarius from morning to night. And so did others. It was a form of creativity, resourcefulness, strength, and lovingness that I have never encountered in anyone except Maharishi, and his way of being enlightened was very different. But at root it was the same. It is true that once I determined my enlightenment was false to reality there were problems. But throughout the entire time that I acted out my enlightenment I never found a situation which I was not equal to, and my overwhelming experience was one of complete command and integrity and joy. Susan:He calls it Unity, altho I would guess it was not quite that but had a flavor of that and - given that he was totally devoted to meditation and MMY- he saw life and his new experiences thru that lens and labeled it Unity/Enlightenment. It did not help that apparently some people working with MMY went along with that for a while. Robin: Until I tried to marry Catholicism with Hinduism, everything was fine. And no one had any doubts. Not one person who spent time in my presence while I was enlightened, Susan, found any problem relating to me, nor in recognizing the naturalness and spontaneity and appropriateness of my behaviour. Now once inside a seminar where the theatre of individuation began to be acted out, then it became very intense, controversial, and powerful. But always there was a sense of intelligence and truth and reality inside what I was doing. Until the pressure of reality against the reality of my enlightenment started to create a conflict of experience. But I have discussed all this in some detail with Curtis and others. It seems only Judy Stein is willing to follow my posts and give them a fair reading. Susan: Logically (altho who am I to know what is right) I think what was needed at that time was for MMY to help Robin deal with what was happening to him and to guide him back to a balanced and stable state, if at all possible. Robin: My enlightenment was infinitely stable, Susan. Right up to the end when I began to challenge it according to an ontology which was at odds with the very idea of enlightenment. But anyone who knew me in those ten years of my enlightenment, not one person had any doubts about my stability, my sanity, nor my integrity. Not at least to make them seriously doubt the truthfulness of my experience, nor the way I acted out my enlightenment. Until things began to bust up through a whole constellation of factors. My sanity was not one of them. Susan:But people having difficulties rarely if ever got direction from
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Wisdom of Chopra...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I think it may also be time for a reminder to readers that, given their TM-critic agenda, one would think Vaj and Barry and iranitea would heartily *approve* of Robin, since he's the most radically anti-TM person who's ever been on FFL. (snip) During the 3rd Reich, the Nazis used to have these 'Little Contests'...to see who could come up with the best torture... This unleashed a whole hornets nest of evil doings... One particularly humiliating torture, was having the man disrobe, and have him stand in a hole, that was dug so he was in the ground, up to his neck, and so he could see all 'round, Nazis laughing and ridiculing him... They would watch him freeze to death, slowly, as it was a bitter winter in Poland...like below zero quite a lot... So, there are different games people play with each other, that seem to create a lot of 'Ego Drama'... To say, 'I am saved by Jesus' or to say, 'I am saved by Maharishi'...is in essence the 'Same Thing!' Don't Follow Leaders! Watch the Parking Meters!'... Robert
