Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: China Opens the Longest Rail Line in the World
It's also about half crap - Richard doesn't know what he's writing about when it comes to chi gung. A little research will show that most of what he wrote here is incorrect - I suspect as others have accused, Richard gets his info from wikipedia. Kung fu is certainly not the parent of qi gong. Chi gung's origins go back to 3 or 4 thousand years and has had at least 4 distinct periods. The origins of qi gong PRE-DATE the birth of Lao Tsu who was the founder of Taoism. He was born around 590 BC. The Taoist phase of qi gong is the first recognized phase of the art. Then came the Buddhist phase that began somewhere around 100 AD or later. Here is a quote from this web site: http://www.easternmartialarts.com/kungfu_history.htm According to one of the oldest books Deng Feng County Recording (Deng Feng Xian Zhi), a Buddhist monk name Batuo, came to China for Buddhist preaching in 464 A.D. Deng Feng was the county where the Shaolin Temple was eventually located. Thirty-one years later, the Shaolin Temple was built in 495 A.D., by the order of Wei Xiao Wen emperor (471-500 A.D.) for Batuo's preaching. Therefore, Batuo can be considered the first chief monk of the Shaolin Temple . However, there is no record regarding how and what Batuo passed down by way of religious Qigong practice. There is also no record of how or when Batuo died. However, the most influential person in this area was the Indian monk Da Mo . Da Mo , whose last name was Sardili and who was also known as Bodhidarma, was once the prince of a small tribe in southern India . He was of the Mahayana school of Buddhism , and was considered by many to have been a bodhisattva, or an enlightened being who had renounced nirvana in order to save others. From the fragments of historical records, it is believed that he was born about 483 A.D. Da Mo was invited to China to preach by the Liang Wu emperor. He arrived in Canton , China in 527 A.D. during the reign of the Wei Xiao Ming emperor (516-528 A.D.) or the Liang Wu emperor (502-550 A.D.). When the emperor decided he did not like Da Mo 's Buddhist theory, the monk withdrew to the Shaolin Temple . When Da Mo arrived, he saw that the priests were weak and sickly, so he shut himself away to ponder the problem. When he emerged after nine years of seclusion, he wrote two classics: Yi Jin Jing (Muscle/Tendon Changing Classic) and Xi Sui Jin (Marrow/Brain Washing Classic. The Yi Jin Jing taught the priests how to build their Qi to an abundant level and use it to improve health and change their physical bodies from weak to strong. After the priests practiced the Yi Jin Jing exercises, they found that not only did they improve their health, but they also greatly increased their strength. When this training was integrated into the Martial Arts forms, it increased the effectiveness of their martial techniques. This change marked one more step in the growth of the Chinese Martial Arts: Martial Arts Qigong. Some sources say the practice of qi gong for martial arts purposes began around 500 or so AD. This lasted till after the so called Cultural Revolution in China when qi gong began to be publicly taught for its health benefits So qi gong pre-dates kung fu by quite a bit. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: China Opens the Longest Rail Line in the World Thanks, Richard, this is a keeper (-: From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:45 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: China Opens the Longest Rail Line in the World Share Long: I meant Tai Chi (-: Authentic T'ai chi ch'uan is a type of Qigong that involves movement, positionng, breathing, and meditation. The main symbol of Qigong is the Dharmachakra Yantra. In Vajrayana Buddhism, the Dharmachakra represents the doctrine of enlightenment, founded by the Buddha Shakya the Muni, the first historical yogin in India. The Buddhist doctrine was introduced to China by Bodhidharma, the founder of the Chan (meditation) sect at Shaolin, of Yogacara, so-called because this Indian sect practiced dhyana (meditation) as instructed by the Buddha. Because his students spent a lot of time in sitting meditation, Bodhi Dharma developed techniques for physical conditioning- Kung Fu, which is the parent of all Qigong. In contrast to the Buddha's spiritual yoga, the Chinese communist government has banned meditation in public in China. If you are caught meditating in China you will be accused of belonging to a deviant cult, arrested and sent to prison. Belief in Buddha or enlightenment is NOT a doctrine supported by the atheistic government of China. In 1999, in response to widespread revival of old traditions of
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
Its nice to have an admirer - thanks Ann! As to nabby's insults, it is consistent with nabby's TMO outlook - look to the future and not to what actually is. I don't blame anyone about anything - if a man walks into a bank and sticks a gun in the teller's face and demands money, takes the bank money and runs off its not blaming to say the man is a crook or robber or thief. He is what he is. Marshy and company did what they did - I don't blame them - but I do say what I think they did and what they acted like. You seem to feel that Curtis, Barry and myself blame the TMO and its leader for our miserable lives. This is simply incorrect. I don't see how you can yourself utterly ignore the reports of people like Mark Landau who were there, who lived it and who reported many things not in keeping with the PR of the Movement. In addition, for myself, I believe in results. I got tired of the TMO telling me that things were gone be better and not seeing advertised results, and instead seeing things that are not supposed to be there, such as people going off the deep end or committing suicide after years of TM. If its such a fabulous practice, if it clears the awareness and replaces stress in the mind, emotions and nervous system with Pure Awareness or even bliss, then such things shouldn't be happening, yet they do. I go by what is, not by what is promised. And yes it sounds judgmental but if a man defrauds millions of people then he is by definition a son of a bitch and that applies to Maharishi and his ilk like Bevan and most of the Rajas (I give an exception to Paul Potter - I worked for him in North Carolina - he was a fine fellow - so spaced out I could hardly believe he could ever tie his own shoes but he was a sattvic guy and a brilliant creative artist.) See even I can end on a positive note. From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:50 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: From: feste37 feste37@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? Â Where does the TM movement say pay no attention to what reality actually is? It's all in the heads of spiritually lazy and (therefore) disappointed posters here who loves to have someone ELSE to blame. Even if you don't like or agree with what MJ has to say you have to give him this: he is consistent in his viewpoint, spent enough time around MIU and the movement to be qualified to say his piece and finally, that he is a fighter with lots of gumption. He knows what he says will not change anyone's mind, he knows he will be censured for his viewpoints but he is willing to get out there and present them anyway. That counts for a lot in my book whether I agree with MJ or not. I admire his spirit and his willingness to come under fire irrespective of his viewpoints. Quality of the human being first, what he believes second.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
Xeno - the last paragraph says it all! From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Beautifully and cogently expressed - yet if these things are true, how do you account for the fact that the behavior of the long term TM practitioners who run and administrate the TM movement does not reflect the energy or essence of the purity of consciousness that is supposedly expressed by the enlightened or near enlightened? How do you account for people like Mark Landau and Rory Goff who report what many would feel are fabulous experience of awareness in essence falling back to a normal waking state of consciousness? I have gotten to the point that I think even just the plain old TM technique doesn't do what it is hyped to do - just my opinion. But I think it is a valid and necessary step to look at the results of a technique or practice in those who do it. The TMO consistently says this is the glory to come, pay no attention to what reality actually is, pay attention to what we SAY reality is. They have always dealt in futures and never delivered promised results. That certainly is a valid criticism. Coming across an 'awakened' TM meditator seems very rare. It seems like those that wake up in a rather short time are those that throw their entire lives into it, and do not sit around waiting for enlightenment to be done for them. These people are curious, they question what is happening in the process all the time, and do not assume it will automatically happen, even if somehow this is the way it actually happens. For example if you focus on getting the experience of transcendental consciousness, and that is it, you are aiming at the bottom of the barrel of enlightenment. Aim for unity right from the start. What is it? Why should I go for it? What do you have to do or not do to get there? Is this the only way? A religion tries to keep you in a straight jacket so you do not vary from the path. But there really is not path. If you are hiking, you can step off the trail and see what happens. I think an experimental attitude is needed. What if things do not seem to be happening. What would happen if I meditated longer? Try and see what happens. I did that and initially the results were not so good. But later on I found I could meditate for much longer times without any ill effect. Things that did not work, I dropped. Spiritual movements tend to have a lot of magical thinking, but it is nuts and bolts thinking that get things done in the world. It seems as if those that end up running a spiritual movement after the 'master' dies (and in some movement when the master is still around) are the ones that like to bask in the glow of the master's presence rather than their own being (not the ego, I should add). You need a certain amount of autonomy - self respect, and self reliance. This is eschewed in hierarchical movements. Being is everywhere the same, no one owns it. It is totally without ownership, so anyone can have it, since from the beginning they do have it. There are no levels to it. We all have some screws loose somewhere in our lives, these are the things that inhibit us in this search. Some of us have lots more loose screws than others. Maybe they gather at the top of the hierarchy, where desire for power and control is given the greatest opportunity for expression. If you look at the technique of TM, and at some mindfulness techniques, the process is to minimise control, to let go as much as possible, finding a way to let go rather than hold on. A spiritual movement, by simply the desire to persist inevitably invites the exact opposite value to that of letting go. It is doomed from the beginning, so to get value from a spiritual movement, you have to get in on its initial surge, and then, probably, get out. And keep seeking as long as the desire to seek persists. Keep curious. I made the mistake of too blindly following recommended instructions for too long. Now, if a person is very innocent and devoted, they might make the 'journey' quickly. I think people like that are kind of rare. There is usually a mix of devotion and ambition and other qualities that make for a really bumpy ride. Once, I was on the MIU campus, and there was an open office door, and two administrators were talking about shakeups in the movement. They were discussing they did not want to be 'left behind', they wanted to at least maintain their position in the movement, or get even a higher position. Some people gravitate to this kind of authority and some do not, but I think those who do are not necessarily about letting go. There is holding on to something. We all have this tendency
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
ok then the TM Movement makes promises that are never kept from the effects of TM to the effects of TM Sidhis to the effects of all the ancillary programs (yagyas, vastu veda, etc) to the promised uses of the donations to the Movement - they tell everyone to believe what the TMO says rather than the evidence of the meditators own experiences and senses and good common sense. If you can't understand that, and it was addressed very well in my previous post which you ignore apparently because you refuse to see the TMO and Marshy in the light of day rather than the golden glow the TMO projects around him and it, if you can't understand that then you must be a schmoe. From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? You wrote a lot of words, but you did not answer my question. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Oh come one, you know this, but if you must ask here goes: 1 - TM reality - Enlightenment in 3 - 6 years      Real Reality †No one we know of has ever gotten enlightened through practicing TM, except Robin and Andy Rhymer according to Marsh-E.  2 - TM Reality †Relationship of body and akasha, Lightness of cotton fibers properly practiced will enable you to levitate  Real Reality †In 38 years of sidhi practice, no one has EVER levitated ( hopping is hopping, not levitation)  3 - TM Reality †Group practice of the “yogic flying� will create peace on earth  Real Reality †War and rumors of war are more prevalent now than when Marshy started the sidhi con game  4 - TM Reality †Group practice of the TM Sidhi programme will result in demonstrable amazing results to create peace and coherence in the geographical location where the flying group is located  Real Reality †In 38 years of group flying no results have been made manifest that are truly incontrovertible. I mean come on, people are not fucking idiots. If it were demonstrated that group practice could create peace, the smaller countries would have every goddamn man, woman and child over the age of 13 doing the practice †the larger countries might not want to since they make so much money off war, but the small countries would all be people by sidhas and rising sidhas.  5 - TM Reality †Practice of TM makes people more efficient, more effective in their jobs  Real Reality †As has been recently discussed, the people who work in the Movement itself have been notorious for decades for their sloth, incompetence and inefficiency. Any of us who ever called the “Course Office� years ago to get on a rounding course can attest to this manifestation of the opposite effect of what was promised from daily TM practice.  6 - TM Reality †Daily practice of TM does not require any lifestyle changes  Real Reality †People who get into TM are highly encouraged to engage in increasingly restrictive, bizarre and utterly absurd lifestyle changes †i.e. †one has to be celibate even if married or they can’t get enlightened, can’t go through a south facing entrance, have to have yagyas for health, etc., and the list goes on and on  7 †TM Reality - Practice of sannyama on friendliness, happiness and compassion develops the qualities to a great degree  Real Reality †The behavior of the TM leaders and mid to low level managers makes that promise an obvious lie since nearly all of these guys demonstrate a high degree of arrogance, inflexibility and an obvious lack of the fundamentals of decent human interaction.  8 †TM Reality †The monies donated to the Movement will be used to create various projects, buildings and groups  Real Reality †Most if not all such projects disappear after a year or two and then Marsh †E would hit everyone up for a more important project, not ever mentioning where the money for the previous project went.  9 †TM Reality - Scientific research has shown the overwhelming evidence of the benefits of the practice of TM and the TM Sidhi programmes.  Real Reality †Most scientists ignore such tripe as tripe and the ones who do look at the studies have real problems with them.  10 †TM Reality - England was denounced as a scorpion nation for supporting America in the Iraq war. TM teachers were told to stop teaching TM in England and to leave England and teach elsewhere.  Real Reality †In addition to being incredibly insensitive to the TM teachers in England, asking or more like ordering them to pick up stakes, move their families, uproot their kids and close their businesses if they had them, one wonders why Marsh-E didn’t inundate the country with yogic flyers to bring overwhelming positive energy and enliven the home of all the laws
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
I agree with most everything you are saying here - I think one of the things that made the TM movement not very spiritual was that race to inner space - the extreme emphasis M put on getting benefits, getting enlightenment as fast as possible - it took what could have been a spiritual movement and made it a grab for gold race. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:17 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Beautifully and cogently expressed - yet if these things are true, how do you account for the fact that the behavior of the long term TM practitioners who run and administrate the TM movement does not reflect the energy or essence of the purity of consciousness that is supposedly expressed by the enlightened or near enlightened? How do you account for people like Mark Landau and Rory Goff who report what many would feel are fabulous experience of awareness in essence falling back to a normal waking state of consciousness? I have gotten to the point that I think even just the plain old TM technique doesn't do what it is hyped to do - just my opinion. But I think it is a valid and necessary step to look at the results of a technique or practice in those who do it. The TMO consistently says this is the glory to come, pay no attention to what reality actually is, pay attention to what we SAY reality is. They have always dealt in futures and never delivered promised results. That certainly is a valid criticism. Coming across an 'awakened' TM meditator seems very rare. It seems like those that wake up in a rather short time are those that throw their entire lives into it, and do not sit around waiting for enlightenment to be done for them. These people are curious, they question what is happening in the process all the time, and do not assume it will automatically happen, even if somehow this is the way it actually happens. For example if you focus on getting the experience of transcendental consciousness, and that is it, you are aiming at the bottom of the barrel of enlightenment. Aim for unity right from the start. What is it? Why should I go for it? What do you have to do or not do to get there? Is this the only way? A religion tries to keep you in a straight jacket so you do not vary from the path. But there really is not path. If you are hiking, you can step off the trail and see what happens. I think an experimental attitude is needed. What if things do not seem to be happening. What would happen if I meditated longer? Try and see what happens. I did that and initially the results were not so good. But later on I found I could meditate for much longer times without any ill effect. Things that did not work, I dropped. Spiritual movements tend to have a lot of magical thinking, but it is nuts and bolts thinking that get things done in the world. It seems as if those that end up running a spiritual movement after the 'master' dies (and in some movement when the master is still around) are the ones that like to bask in the glow of the master's presence rather than their own being (not the ego, I should add). You need a certain amount of autonomy - self respect, and self reliance. This is eschewed in hierarchical movements. Being is everywhere the same, no one owns it. It is totally without ownership, so anyone can have it, since from the beginning they do have it. There are no levels to it. We all have some screws loose somewhere in our lives, these are the things that inhibit us in this search. Some of us have lots more loose screws than others. Maybe they gather at the top of the hierarchy, where desire for power and control is given the greatest opportunity for expression. If you look at the technique of TM, and at some mindfulness techniques, the process is to minimise control, to let go as much as possible, finding a way to let go rather than hold on. A spiritual movement, by simply the desire to persist inevitably invites the exact opposite value to that of letting go. It is doomed from the beginning, so to get value from a spiritual movement, you have to get in on its initial surge, and then, probably, get out. And keep seeking as long as the desire to seek persists. Keep curious. I made the mistake of too blindly following recommended instructions for too long. Now, if a person is very innocent and devoted, they might make the 'journey' quickly. I think people like that are kind of rare. There is usually a mix of devotion and ambition and other qualities that make for a really bumpy ride. Once, I was on the MIU campus, and there was an open office door, and two administrators were talking about shakeups in the movement. They were discussing they did not want to be 'left behind
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
the idea that everyone does it so don't fuss with particular people who do it is the same kind of bullshit mentality that has led to the utterly corrupt practices on Wall Street that has led to a world wide economic crisis - where is your proof of Gandhi clan corruption other than what you have heard and read? I read this comment by an English person commenting on the Mayan flyer articles and I passed it on, much like you are passing on information and judgement about the Gandhis - I don't give damn who else lies, cheats and steals it doesn't make it alright for Maharishi and his family to do it too, especially when they have been taking money under false pretenses for decades and then can't even bring themselves to handle the wealth legitimately Like I have said before, I believe in results and in manifest behavior - the kind of behavior that these people manifest show a low and selfish level of consciousness and the kind of mentality that excuses it for the Marshy family while reviling others in India for doing the same thing reminds me of the character of the Emperor Commodus as depicted in the movie Gladiator. Show me the public information that shows without question that Maha was an honest custodian of the funds he lived off of for nearly 60 years. Back up what you say. I believe people like Mark Landau, Billy Clayton and Barry because what they relate about Maharishi (who by the way does not deserve that title) has the ring of truth AND when you put all the stories together with public statements and actions (like the scorpion nation episode) you see a consistent picture of an egotistical, childishly egotistical, horny, greedy con artist who created a movement dedicated not to the enlightenment of the world nor the betterment of the individual but to making himself an icon and living a high and luxurious life. You are flat out incorrect when you call these things baseless innuendo. Like I said, back up your words - show us the public information showing that Maharishi was an honest custodian of the funds he received for 57 years. All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run them are corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or institutional corruption and dishonesty. From: sri...@ymail.com sri...@ymail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like India's has been for some time then it should come as no surprise that one has to resort to things like smuggling gold into the country. The Gandhi clan is the one that has been single mindedly engaged in self-enrichment and the level of manipulation of all facets of government to their ends and against anyone they imagine to not support those ends is not something that I think you understand. If you were an Indian you would especially given the recent revelations of the miraculous enrichment of a certain person who married into that family. Whatever you claim otherwise is actually based on a lot of baseless innuendo and there is public information to the contrary but you are the sort of person who repeats lies so as to give them credibility. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote: A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the organisation over many years, but had no more to do with it after I got close to an Indian working for the organisation at a senior level. He confided in me that the top people close to Maharishi had asked him to smuggle gold during his trips from Europe and USA back to India!! When he refused they pressured him and made him break down, threatening he would have no future in the organisation if he didn't comply. Thus was back in the 90's when Maharishi was still alive. No wonder the movement in India is rich! http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcastbroadcastid=366529
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
Ann one of these days I am gonna come to Vancouver to visit with you and your husband - but please don't ask me to ride - I know how to feed a horse and clean out the hooves and how to daub that pink goop you put on any cuts or abrasions so flies don't devil them - maybe you don't have to deal with that so far north but here in South Carolina we got lots-a flies in the summer - I have some friends who have called upon me to tend to their horses when they are out of town which is how I know As to getting flack, its mainly from nabby and a couple others - I know it upsets them when they read what I write. As I said before and I honestly mean this we all have that with which we identify. A family, an ethnic group, a car, a career, social status, a sports team. When people identify themselves with at special group that is doing special stuff, that has special knowledge that no one else has, and better yet when people identify themselves with a special person who has specialized knowledge that will actually save the world they cannot entertain even the faintest hint of anything being untoward with this person or group. As long as they identify themselves with the specialness, then they have a safe comfortable and in this case superior to others personal identity, so they can't stand it. Anything less than positive about M and the TMO isn't really about the TMO and Maha, it is interpreted by their mind and ego as a personal attack on the believer him or herself. But their ego is so entrenched in its identification that it will not allow them to even see and acknowledge the identification. From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:51 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: From: feste37 feste37@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? Â Where does the TM movement say pay no attention to what reality actually is? It's all in the heads of spiritually lazy and (therefore) disappointed posters here who loves to have someone ELSE to blame. Even if you don't like or agree with what MJ has to say you have to give him this: he is consistent in his viewpoint, spent enough time around MIU and the movement to be qualified to say his piece and finally, that he is a fighter with lots of gumption. He knows what he says will not change anyone's mind, he knows he will be censured for his viewpoints but he is willing to get out there and present them anyway. That counts for a lot in my book whether I agree with MJ or not. I admire his spirit and his willingness to come under fire irrespective of his viewpoints. Quality of the human being first, what he believes second. Under fire and cencored by whom ? Gosh, lately you keep asking these questions that have obvious answers. But here is the answer just in case you actually need me to explain: MJ gets 'shit', censured, attacked, piled on (whatever term you want to use) by those who feel strongly about supporting the aspects of the TM movement that MJ tries to expose or speak out against. I am not saying he is some martyr or poor guy who can't handle it. I am making the point that he says what he feels IN SPITE of knowing there are many here who strongly disagree. This is no major revelation just an observation on my part. And, to reiterate, I like MJ for his persistence coupled with his credibility and consistency. It doesn't seem like anyone here gets terribly upset by his rants. We've seen it all before, you'll find disgrunteled former members of any organization everywhere. I know this. My point was not to highlight the fact that he riles some people, my comments were emphasizing the qualities I like about Michael. I wasn't talking about his dissenters but we can talk about you now if you like! Internet is full of them :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lincoln
Bbut...wha wha wha what if we had us some visions of our past lives? What do we think then? (Happened to me at MIU - he he!) From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lincoln --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@ no_reply@ wrote: PVR Narasimha Rao says that it looks like Lincoln is re-incarnated right now based on the birth chart of a well-known individual but I would imagine that person does not know it or believe it himself. So then what does it matter? Who says it matters ? Who says, you ask? Why, the people who take the time and trouble to conjecture on such things obviously think it matters. Seems a complete waste of time to me. No one could ever prove something like this and even if someone was Lincoln in one life it has no bearing on who they are currently, what they remember, what they will do in this new body. How does one possibly come up with these theories anyway? Much better to figure out who we are in this lifetime since there isn't even a way to prove we live multiple, reincarnated lives and all we really have is the 'what's happenin' now'. It never ceases to astound me the things people think up to spend their time pursuing. Lincoln, my ass. It's a simply fact that people die and later gets a new body. Same will happen to you, so make hay when the sun shines :-) My God, some of you live in a dream world. Assertions are made and not a hope in Hell of proving anything. Lincoln one day, some bum the next. All in a day's work. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Scorsese in his commentary on Gangs of New York talked about Lincoln not being a popular as our school history books would have made out. Some of those facts come out in the film. Similarly his HBO series Boardwalk Empire mirrors much of the corruption we see in modern day politics. I'll get around to seeing Lincoln probably the way I watched The Dark Night Rises on Bluray as I did last night. First off I was pissed that the was mostly 16:9 instead of 2:35:1. Gives me pause to ever rent another WB title again. Second, the story seemed to telegraph to the audience that it is bad to go up against the rich and be for the people. That seemed to be some social engineering that wasn't needed. Afterward I found a Netflix indie to wash my palette. The incarnation of Lincoln is today a highly developed individual living in Washington DC were he works for the government. I wouldn't be surprised if Scorsese, a long-time TM meditator, interviewed Lincoln.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reflections on Dec 21
I'll let Barry or may Curtis respond to that if they so choose. From: sri...@ymail.com sri...@ymail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:51 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reflections on Dec 21 Crime is declining markedly in all these areas influenced by these groups, and other social indicators like rates of poverty are also showing unprecedented improvement. Its now. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Please tell you friend's friend's friend not to hold their breath till this happens - its the same old TM Movement schtick - hanging on till the Rapture comes, always dealing in futures. Sort of like waiting for Elijah. From: Rick Archer rick@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:34 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Reflections on Dec 21 From the friend of a friend of a friend: Reflections on the events of Dec 12, 2012 As the Global Mother Divine director for Guatemala, I thought I’d pass on some reflections I had from the events on December 21 this year in Monte Alban. I don’t really know that much about it and certainly shouldn’t be taken as an authority. Much of this is just what I have gleaned from glimpses I have gained while trying to keep in touch with it in spare moments over the last few years. The first part is meant to be fact. I hope I’ve got all the details at least mostly right. Many of you may know most of this and more. The Mayans never actually thought that Dec 21 was going to be the end of the world. In fact, until 2010 the Mayans never even talked about the ending of their calendar at all. The Mayans are, in general, quite happy and comfortable to stay to themselves. Not many are welcome into their world and very few ever leave. So there has not been much communication of what they believe or don’t believe, until the last couple of years, with anyone. But more than a decade ago some Mayans apparently did come to the US to college here and mentioned that their calendar ended on Dec 21. They had no idea what that meant or what was going to happen after that. So the Judeo-Christian apocalyptic habit of thinking in this country turned it into the end of the world. And that concept went around the world. EVERYONE around the world, as far as I can tell from my travels and living with so many of other cultures, knew that Dec 21 was ‘The Day’. But 2 years ago, the Mayan elder who is the Prophesy Keeper and Day Keeper, Don Alejandro, did start to talk about the end of the calendar, and in order to quell the fear, he did go as public as possible with the help of new age friends through internet and travels to other countries. His message was, ‘Don’t be afraid! The world is not going to end. It is the end of the current cycle of time and the beginning of a new one.’ The ending cycle started about 5000 years ago, about the time Kali Yuga started. The thing that amazes me was that he describes it in the same way and even with the same words that Maharishi describes the new age he worked towards for so many decades. Don Alejandro said the new time will be Heaven on Earth (those words were used on the internet, at least), a time of peace and harmony, where there will be no sickness or suffering. It will be a time when people will fly through the air like clouds. The world will be without boarders, and everyone will be able to travel anywhere without passports. He described it as a beautiful new time to very much look forward to. He also predicted that the day would be like any other day, like New Years eve. A new year is beginning, but it doesn’t feel immediately any different from the old year. These are prophesies that, as I understand it, have been around for 5000 years, but have been passed on from father to son, or keeper to keeper, silently. The Mayan people didn’t even really know. No one did until 2 years ago. There is no TM Movement in Guatemala, no local teachers. Raja Louis imported two Spanish Governors to teach there a number of years ago, and they have been knocking on doors, and knocking on doors for many years, and for so long found the doors all locked. Finally they found some openings, and finally they reached the Mayan elders. I have no idea how long it took for the elders to ‘get’ what the Governors were saying, but when they finally did, the response was kind of like, ‘Come in! We’re expecting you! This TM will eliminate disharmony in collective consciousness? It will create peace? Please, tell us what to do. You can teach us to fly? All the children should learn? Yes. We will start now.” Once it started, there was no stopping it. Last July, on Guru Purnima some Mayans had learned the practice (I forget, maybe a few thousand
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 2012 -- The Year Of Unnecessary Dread
Wait a minute, how can this be? Srijau says Crime is declining markedly in all these areas influenced by these groups, and other social indicators like rates of poverty are also showing unprecedented improvement. Its now.: Y'all cain't both be right - who do we believe??? From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:56 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 2012 -- The Year Of Unnecessary Dread Bhairitu -- can you give us your estimate of the chances? 50% chance, 80% chance? What? If you do believe this, where are you putting your dollars for a hedge? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: And what will 2013 bring? How about the collapse of the dollar bringing the collapse of the US economy about April? That would bring massive rioting and hence why they want to collect guns now (sorry it has nothing to do with mentally unstable people shooting kids). This is not astrology but the logical progression of events. Time will tell.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
Lord have mercy! That sounds like some thing I would have written - and I agree. From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:48 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks I know very little, but I am certain that many crimes have been committed by the TMO. It's a complete spectrum of silly to evil. On one end is: On my teacher training, some guy had a car accident and they sneaked him out of Spain before the cops could get him. There were many tales of cash being illegally moved to other countries. On the other end: Maharishi is said to told someone to drive fast and not care about the speed limits. Maharishi gave everyone salt and peanuts on the courses even though it was wrong. Think about the mind-set of the MUM officials when that guy stabbed the other guy. THAT'S HOW IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN -- cover the movement's ass and save face AT ANY COST. They all just did what they wanted to do and figured out words for it later. No morality. No righteousness. Just self-serving movement besmirching decisions is all. It is all made-up on the spot. I'll bet Maharishi decided on the first set of mantras in about 10 minutes flat. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@... no_reply@... wrote: there is NO lying cheating or stealing by the people in the movement you are slandering so carelessly, where is your proof? Likewise you defame Maharishi with absolutely no proof of any of the kind of wrongdoing that you parrot from others. The fault is in yourself. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: the idea that everyone does it so don't fuss with particular people who do it is the same kind of bullshit mentality that has led to the utterly corrupt practices on Wall Street that has led to a world wide economic crisis - where is your proof of Gandhi clan corruption other than what you have heard and read? I read this comment by an English person commenting on the Mayan flyer articles and I passed it on, much like you are passing on information and judgement about the Gandhis - I don't give damn who else lies, cheats and steals it doesn't make it alright for Maharishi and his family to do it too, especially when they have been taking money under false pretenses for decades and then can't even bring themselves to handle the wealth legitimately Like I have said before, I believe in results and in manifest behavior - the kind of behavior that these people manifest show a low and selfish level of consciousness and the kind of mentality that excuses it for the Marshy family while reviling others in India for doing the same thing reminds me of the character of the Emperor Commodus as depicted in the movie Gladiator. Show me the public information that shows without question that Maha was an honest custodian of the funds he lived off of for nearly 60 years. Back up what you say. I believe people like Mark Landau, Billy Clayton and Barry because what they relate about Maharishi (who by the way does not deserve that title) has the ring of truth AND when you put all the stories together with public statements and actions (like the scorpion nation episode) you see a consistent picture of an egotistical, childishly egotistical, horny, greedy con artist who created a movement dedicated not to the enlightenment of the world nor the betterment of the individual but to making himself an icon and living a high and luxurious life. You are flat out incorrect when you call these things baseless innuendo. Like I said, back up your words - show us the public information showing that Maharishi was an honest custodian of the funds he received for 57 years. All governments are corrupt - which means the people who run them are corrupt and that is no excuse for personal or institutional corruption and dishonesty. From: srijau@ srijau@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:03 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks  when you are dealing with an utterly corrupt government like India's has been for some time then it should come as no surprise that one has to resort to things like smuggling gold into the country. The Gandhi clan is the one that has been single mindedly engaged in self-enrichment and the level of manipulation of all facets of government to their ends and against anyone they imagine to not support those ends is not something that I think you understand. If you were an Indian you would especially given the recent revelations of the miraculous enrichment of a certain person who married into that family. Whatever you claim otherwise is actually
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 2012 -- The Year Of Unnecessary Dread
as I have said before, I am willing to believe anything under the sun, but not without evidence. I am willing more than willing to have what you are saying to be true. The fact that the TMO says it does not make it anywhere near a reality - they do have a history of fudging the numbers on all sorts of things - I have seen it first hand and so have many others. But for now I am willing to just wait and see. You prediction seems to be the flying numbers rise and life gets better all over the place. My prediction is no matter what the numbers are, the energy trends already in motion will play themselves out, meaning that a whole lot of unpleasant stuff is gonna happen in Latin America especially Mexico in the next year, just because that is what happens down there. And the economic picture all over is going to continue to nosedive. We can revisit this 6 months or a year from now and see who is correct. I still can't get away from thinking that if the ME is real, even tho they have don't have the square root of one percent in Fairfield right now, they surely have the square root of one percent of the population in Iowa, or at least Jefferson county and certainly of Fairfield. That being the case, the markers of the ME should be truly astonishing and obvious in Fairfield, Jefferson County and maybe all of Iowa. That is not the case or we would have heard so by now. I don't understand how the sattvic effect of the ME can bypass the population where the group is flying and not do anything special for them, yet effect national trends? The minimal (in my mind non-existent) ME in the US right now also seems to ignore the fact that there are flying groups all over the US of varying sizes. Why with all these groups is the overall effect not greater at this time? This is why I don't believe in the ME. Its not because I think Maha was a lying fraud, or that the TMO is simply following in his footsteps, it is because the ME just isn't showing itself. But I will make you a promise. If it does become so obvious that no one can ignore it, I will move to Fairfield, live in a vastu ved house, and do program with everyone else. So let's see what is happening in a few months in good old Mexico. From: sri...@ymail.com sri...@ymail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:15 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 2012 -- The Year Of Unnecessary Dread do a little research of the most recent statistics for the areas that have groups, - very recently - Mexico , also Peru , Columbia really the whole north of Latin America has a minimum Maharishi effect as of now. The USA is short of its requirement still. This will be better and better for the USA as the months pass and the numbers in Mexico are more. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Wait a minute, how can this be? Srijau says Crime is declining markedly in all these areas influenced by these groups, and other social indicators like rates of poverty are also showing unprecedented improvement. Its now.: Y'all cain't both be right - who do we believe??? From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:56 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 2012 -- The Year Of Unnecessary Dread  Bhairitu -- can you give us your estimate of the chances? 50% chance, 80% chance? What? If you do believe this, where are you putting your dollars for a hedge? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: And what will 2013 bring? How about the collapse of the dollar bringing the collapse of the US economy about April? That would bring massive rioting and hence why they want to collect guns now (sorry it has nothing to do with mentally unstable people shooting kids). This is not astrology but the logical progression of events. Time will tell.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
In the first place I am not trying to upset anyone with my carefully chosen and always shining with golden truth words and erudite wisdom. Second you are absolutely correct that there are LOTS of former TM'ers who are not happy about the con artist job Marsh and company did on the world and continues to TRY to perpetrate on the world. Which actually gives a great deal of credence to all the Golden Truths I express as a conduit of Pure Awareness myself. The fact that there are so many FORMER TM practitioners gives a lot of weight to the feeling that it ain't all its cracked up to be. If even the basic TM technique worked as advertised everyone in the world would be doing it, and we would already have the proverbial age of enlightenment. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:10 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: From: feste37 feste37@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? Â Where does the TM movement say pay no attention to what reality actually is? It's all in the heads of spiritually lazy and (therefore) disappointed posters here who loves to have someone ELSE to blame. Even if you don't like or agree with what MJ has to say you have to give him this: he is consistent in his viewpoint, spent enough time around MIU and the movement to be qualified to say his piece and finally, that he is a fighter with lots of gumption. He knows what he says will not change anyone's mind, he knows he will be censured for his viewpoints but he is willing to get out there and present them anyway. That counts for a lot in my book whether I agree with MJ or not. I admire his spirit and his willingness to come under fire irrespective of his viewpoints. Quality of the human being first, what he believes second. Under fire and cencored by whom ? It doesn't seem like anyone here gets terribly upset by his rants. We've seen it all before, you'll find disgrunteled former members of any organization everywhere. Internet is full of them :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lincoln
I didn't know what to do with it at the time - it came in a flash one night in my pod room - the room disappeared and I saw like looking at a movie what the past life and death had been then my eyesight cleared and the pod room was back. A few years later I went with a girl friend to a past life regression workshop just cuz she was going and saw some interesting stuff - didn't mean a whole lot but it did explain why I had a life long fear of sharks! From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 1:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lincoln --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Bbut...wha wha wha what if we had us some visions of our past lives? What do we think then? (Happened to me at MIU - he he!) That may be fine but just don't believe anyone else if they tell you they know what your past lives were. Or if they know that John Doe was Mussolini in their last life. Again, even if you have your own personal glimpses of what your former incarnations were, they are still unprovable but if that is what rocks your boat, imagine on! From: Ann awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lincoln  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@ no_reply@ wrote: PVR Narasimha Rao says that it looks like Lincoln is re-incarnated right now based on the birth chart of a well-known individual but I would imagine that person does not know it or believe it himself. So then what does it matter? Who says it matters ? Who says, you ask? Why, the people who take the time and trouble to conjecture on such things obviously think it matters. Seems a complete waste of time to me. No one could ever prove something like this and even if someone was Lincoln in one life it has no bearing on who they are currently, what they remember, what they will do in this new body. How does one possibly come up with these theories anyway? Much better to figure out who we are in this lifetime since there isn't even a way to prove we live multiple, reincarnated lives and all we really have is the 'what's happenin' now'. It never ceases to astound me the things people think up to spend their time pursuing. Lincoln, my ass. It's a simply fact that people die and later gets a new body. Same will happen to you, so make hay when the sun shines :-) My God, some of you live in a dream world. Assertions are made and not a hope in Hell of proving anything. Lincoln one day, some bum the next. All in a day's work. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Scorsese in his commentary on Gangs of New York talked about Lincoln not being a popular as our school history books would have made out. Some of those facts come out in the film. Similarly his HBO series Boardwalk Empire mirrors much of the corruption we see in modern day politics. I'll get around to seeing Lincoln probably the way I watched The Dark Night Rises on Bluray as I did last night. First off I was pissed that the was mostly 16:9 instead of 2:35:1. Gives me pause to ever rent another WB title again. Second, the story seemed to telegraph to the audience that it is bad to go up against the rich and be for the people. That seemed to be some social engineering that wasn't needed. Afterward I found a Netflix indie to wash my palette. The incarnation of Lincoln is today a highly developed individual living in Washington DC were he works for the government. I wouldn't be surprised if Scorsese, a long-time TM meditator, interviewed Lincoln.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
Some of your assertions seem suspect to me. Like crazy people flocking to the supposedly enlightened or as you say those with an oz of charisma. If he were so sattvic and enlightened, no crazy people could get within a mile of him - they wouldn't be able to stand the purity. That's the way it works - so if he said they would flock sounds to me like a fraud knowing what kind of energy he's putting out So going by your example we are to ignore the testimony of the skin boys who witnessed him chasing women right and left and also saw first hand the financial manipulations? Go ahead and keep your fantasy of who you believe he was - he's only been dead a few years - as time goes by more and more truth will surface until only the truly die hard TM fanatics will ever believe he was anything other than a top notch con artist. From: PaliGap compost...@yahoo.co.uk To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:06 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote: A comment on the article about the 8,000 flyers in Mexico I too am a former TM sidha. I gave thousands of pounds to the organisation over many years, but had no more to do with it after I got close to an Indian working for the organisation at a senior level. He confided in me that the top people close to Maharishi had asked him to smuggle gold during his trips from Europe and USA back to India!! When he refused they pressured him and made him break down, threatening he would have no future in the organisation if he didn't comply. Thus was back in the 90's when Maharishi was still alive. No wonder the movement in India is rich! http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=broadcastbroadcastid=366529 No one brought charges against Maharishi for smuggling gold. Hearsay is not proof. Quite so. Something for which we should all be immensely grateful. Ei incumbit probatio, qui dicit, non qui negat; cum per rerum naturam factum negantis probatio nulla sit I live in the UK. Here employment law does not follow this principle. That is quite some shock when you come up against it. As a small business owner/manager you can suddenly find yourself 'in the dock' without this ancient guarantor of your rights (i.e having to *prove* your innocence). Quite disturbing. I once employed a fruitcake who accused me of 'touching her up' (and this person accused others of other dramatic violations, e.g. racist abuse). So now I *really* appreciate the importance and value of innocent until proved guilty. And I'm inclined to thank my lucky stars no one has yet realised what a wonderful guru I could be, and come knocking on my door and putting me on a grand pedestal (as per MMY/MJ?). Crucifixion isn't the half of it. It is a racing certainty that the fruitcakes will gravitate to anyone with an ounce of charisma (like moths to the flame that obscure the light) and create mayhem. My MMY predicted as much. How awful it must be to have to cope with TB fanatical followers and their inevitable disappointment. The burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi) is the obligation to shift the accepted conclusion away from an oppositional opinion to one's own position. The burden of proof is often associated with the Latin maxim semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the best translation of which seems to be: the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges. He who does not carry the burden of proof carries the benefit of assumption, meaning he needs no evidence to support his claim. Fulfilling the burden of proof effectively captures the benefit of assumption, passing the burden of proof off to another party. Wikipedia: Burden of Proof
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
Well that means a lot of other people here on FFL are telling these lies too so I don't feel so lonely - many of the things I have discussed here is based on what I have seen here. But if you want to single me out as the only one who makes such statements be my guest. only it isn't defaming if its true, I find no fault in myself for being willing to face truth and Benjy Creme is about as full of it as it comes From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:08 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@... no_reply@... wrote: there is NO lying cheating or stealing by the people in the movement you are slandering so carelessly, where is your proof? Likewise you defame Maharishi with absolutely no proof of any of the kind of wrongdoing that you parrot from others. The fault is in yourself. The higher you are the more people want to bring you down. -Benjamin Creme
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: China Opens the Longest Rail Line in the World
yep - its just traditional qi gong the specific form I am doing right now is called Eight Piece Brocade From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:13 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: China Opens the Longest Rail Line in the World Thanks, Michael, good info. If you've said before, I've forgotten: do you practice qigong? And if so, what form? Sometimes for specific ailments, I practice Spring Forest Qigong. The other form popular here in FF is called Golden Shield. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: China Opens the Longest Rail Line in the World It's also about half crap - Richard doesn't know what he's writing about when it comes to chi gung. A little research will show that most of what he wrote here is incorrect - I suspect as others have accused, Richard gets his info from wikipedia. Kung fu is certainly not the parent of qi gong. Chi gung's origins go back to 3 or 4 thousand years and has had at least 4 distinct periods. The origins of qi gong PRE-DATE the birth of Lao Tsu who was the founder of Taoism. He was born around 590 BC. The Taoist phase of qi gong is the first recognized phase of the art. Then came the Buddhist phase that began somewhere around 100 AD or later. Here is a quote from this web site: http://www.easternmartialarts.com/kungfu_history.htm According to one of the oldest books Deng Feng County Recording (Deng Feng Xian Zhi), a Buddhist monk name Batuo, came to China for Buddhist preaching in 464 A.D. Deng Feng was the county where the Shaolin Temple was eventually located. Thirty-one years later, the Shaolin Temple was built in 495 A.D., by the order of Wei Xiao Wen emperor (471-500 A.D.) for Batuo's preaching. Therefore, Batuo can be considered the first chief monk of the Shaolin Temple . However, there is no record regarding how and what Batuo passed down by way of religious Qigong practice. There is also no record of how or when Batuo died. However, the most influential person in this area was the Indian monk Da Mo . Da Mo , whose last name was Sardili and who was also known as Bodhidarma, was once the prince of a small tribe in southern India . He was of the Mahayana school of Buddhism , and was considered by many to have been a bodhisattva, or an enlightened being who had renounced nirvana in order to save others. From the fragments of historical records, it is believed that he was born about 483 A.D. Da Mo was invited to China to preach by the Liang Wu emperor. He arrived in Canton , China in 527 A.D. during the reign of the Wei Xiao Ming emperor (516-528 A.D.) or the Liang Wu emperor (502-550 A.D.). When the emperor decided he did not like Da Mo 's Buddhist theory, the monk withdrew to the Shaolin Temple . When Da Mo arrived, he saw that the priests were weak and sickly, so he shut himself away to ponder the problem. When he emerged after nine years of seclusion, he wrote two classics: Yi Jin Jing (Muscle/Tendon Changing Classic) and Xi Sui Jin (Marrow/Brain Washing Classic. The Yi Jin Jing taught the priests how to build their Qi to an abundant level and use it to improve health and change their physical bodies from weak to strong. After the priests practiced the Yi Jin Jing exercises, they found that not only did they improve their health, but they also greatly increased their strength. When this training was integrated into the Martial Arts forms, it increased the effectiveness of their martial techniques. This change marked one more step in the growth of the Chinese Martial Arts: Martial Arts Qigong. Some sources say the practice of qi gong for martial arts purposes began around 500 or so AD. This lasted till after the so called Cultural Revolution in China when qi gong began to be publicly taught for its health benefits So qi gong pre-dates kung fu by quite a bit. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: China Opens the Longest Rail Line in the World Thanks, Richard, this is a keeper (-: From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:45 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: China Opens the Longest Rail Line in the World Share Long: I meant Tai Chi (-: Authentic T'ai chi ch'uan is a type of Qigong that involves movement, positionng, breathing, and meditation. The main symbol of Qigong is the Dharmachakra Yantra. In Vajrayana Buddhism, the Dharmachakra represents the doctrine
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
You are right again! Also I do barely remember the separate bathrooms and drinking fountains - there were some places in the South that took a while to get rid of them - where did you grow up, if I may ask? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 5:13 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote: snippus interruptus So when folks like the current version of myself come along and say hey! Who IS that man behind the curtain the object referral people feel their very soul identity is being called into question. Some people here may find it offensive but drawing on my Southern heritage, the rednecks I was raised with could not imagine a world where white men were not superior to blacks. As my daddy said once, you work with 'em, you tolerate 'em but you don't socialize with them. Any idea of racial equality truly threatened their self identity that depended on belief of whites as a superior race and you could in some places I have been in the past get your ass kicked for offering any other opinion on the subject. I grew up in the South, too, so I can identify with your metaphor. Possibly being older than you, I grew up in an environment in which every restaurant had two water fountains and four bathrooms, one set of each for white and colored. My parents -- bless them -- didn't think this way. They thought more along the lines that your daddy did, and I kinda caught their 'tude from them. I was once thrown off of a city bus at age ten or so for wanting to sit in the back row of the bus. I liked it back there; it was spacious and one could stretch out and enjoy oneself. But I was white. The back of the bus was for coloreds. The driver literally stopped the bus, got up, walked back to the back of the bus and threw me off. The coloreds I'd been having a fine time with waved at me as the bus pulled away. None of the white folks did. I think the metaphor extends to spiritual traditions. People *get used to shit*. Whether that shit is the caste system in India or governors being better than mere meditators, it's all shit. Once they buy into defending the shit, they don't like being told that it's shit.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lincoln
did you have any experience like Unity or God Consciousness or anything like that in the past that at the time led you to believe that the enlightenment thing was real? I am curious. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:33 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lincoln --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Bbut...wha wha wha what if we had us some visions of our past lives? What do we think then? (Happened to me at MIU - he he!) Well, I can speak with some confidence about this, having Been There Done That with past-life recol- lections. I've had dozens of *waking state* (as opposed to dream state during sleep or under the influence of drugs or rounding) flashbacks of myself living in previous eras. In most of them, the trigger or catalyst for the experience was being in the physical location where the supposed past events took place. I'd be walking around a 13th-century walled city in the south of France and the present-day city would just waver and go all hazy and then disappear, and all of the visuals were replaced by the same scene, but 800 years earlier. I'd be *in* my body as of that supposed incarnation, and able to look down and see what I was wearing, what my body type was, etc., and often it would have nothing to do with my present body type or style of dress. Then after a few seconds or minutes the experience would fade, and I'd be back in the present. And? Having had a number of these experiences, I have to describe them as So What? Nice experience, but it no more proves the existence of past lives than simply believing in them does. It could have been Just Another Brain Fart. Similarly, I have had remembered experiences of what it was like to traverse the Bardo between death and rebirth, in full color and 3D. Again, So What? All of this tends to make *me* believe in the possibility of reincarnation, but it doesn't prove shit. These were just my subjective experiences, and as such CANNOT BE TRUSTED. If science has taught us anything, it's that people can convince themselves that they have experienced almost *anything*. This convinced believerism often has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual events that the person can objectively be shown to have experienced. I'm chiming in on this because I think that a *lot* of people here tend to believe that if they experienced something subjectively, then it must be true. I do not believe this, even about my most intense or spiritual experiences. *At the best*, they were only What I Experienced, Subjectively. Nothing more. Truth, they ain't. Reality, they weren't, and will never be. The experiences were -- and will always remain -- subjective, going on only inside my head, or in the synapses of my brain. Bottom line is that my subjective experiences lead me to believe that there may be something to this reincarnation thang. If asked to put it in terms of percentages, or odds, I would bet on this heavily. But I try not to *ever* ASSUME that reincarnation is true, because it might not be. The only time I will be able to attest to its existence or non-existence will be too late -- I'll be dead. At that point, even if my spirit is flying free in some astral Bardo Bordello cavorting with the wraiths of my yet- unresolved lust fantasies, I will be unable to communicate that to anyone who is still living. If, on the other hand, if it turns out to be just as the hard-core atheists believe, and my consciousness and existence just switches OFF when I die, like with the throwing of a light switch, there will be no me present to even be disappointed. So whatever I believe about future lives is basically IRRELEVANT. It has no bearing on this life whatsoever, *unless I choose to give it relevance*. I don't. YMMV. From: Ann awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lincoln --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@ no_reply@ wrote: PVR Narasimha Rao says that it looks like Lincoln is re-incarnated right now based on the birth chart of a well-known individual but I would imagine that person does not know it or believe it himself. So then what does it matter? Who says it matters ? Who says, you ask? Why, the people who take the time and trouble to conjecture on such things obviously think it matters. Seems a complete waste of time to me. No one could ever prove something like this and even if someone was Lincoln in one life it has no bearing on who they are currently, what they remember, what they will do in this new body. How does one possibly come up
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
I understand - I had a friend who feels the same way - we were on MIU staff together - I in kitchen services she was in the fundraising dept. After I left she got her MBA, which somehow the movement paid for, put one of her sons thru high school there, went on TTC that also she got funding for thru the Movement - went on to be center chairman of a center in New England somewhere, then went on Mother Divine for 3 years and after that quit doing TM -she lives in Fairfield and likes Adyashanti I think - she has only good things to say about her Movement years, although she did get tired of the course leaders checking the ladies legs each and every day to make sure they were wearing stockings which was part of the dress code All a long winded way of saying that I certainly understand your point of view and appreciate you sharing the experiences. If you don't mind, what years were you there? From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 6:45 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? I apologize for the unpleasant post. I enjoyed my time in the TMO. I was only full-time in the movement for five years, when I was on faculty at MIU. I never felt cheated or exploited by the movement or the university. They gave me a job when I needed one. They trusted me enough to put me in charge of students. They gave me a lot. Looking back on it, those days were some of the best of my life. I knew what the movement was like, of course, but my little corner of it was fine. I never did anything unethical and was never asked to. We had some terrific students back in those days, and some amazing class discussions (uncensored, I might add). It was intellectually stimulating and emotionally rewarding. I never cared for the excessive bureaucracy or the movement hardliners, but by and large they left me alone to do my thing. As far as promises are concerned, as a TM teacher I taught hundreds of people to meditate and I never promised them enlightenment in 3-6 years. No one ever told me to say that. I never heard it in movement circles, either. And for the promises of levitating, I never thought that was the point of it. What mattered was the bliss that got stirred up when you did the flying siddhi. So I never expected to fly, although I have to say, there is a rush of upward-flowing energy when you do the flying sutra that used to give me a definite feeling of the body wanting to rise up. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote: It might have been all of the above, but it wasn't - I was young and looking for something - TM seemed good and it turned out not to be after a time - so you would revile me for being gullible? Blame the victim so to speak - if Bevan ever advertises for a lackey you would fit the bill. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: You are so full of resentment and anger. If the TM is so bad, how come it took you so long to spot it? You are quick to blame the behavior of others, but what was it about you that fell for it all? You seem to feel you were cheated. What was it about you, then, that made you such an easy target? Were you especially naive? Stupid, perhaps? Wanting a savior? Wanting a father figure who would solve all your problems? When and why did you stop using your own brain? Perhaps if you had exercised a little more common sense and wisdom at the time, you wouldn't feel the need to spew out all this anti-TM venom now. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: In the first place I am not trying to upset anyone with my carefully chosen and always shining with golden truth words and erudite wisdom. Second you are absolutely correct that there are LOTS of former TM'ers who are not happy about the con artist job Marsh and company did on the world and continues to TRY to perpetrate on the world. Which actually gives a great deal of credence to all the Golden Truths I express as a conduit of Pure Awareness myself. The fact that there are so many FORMER TM practitioners gives a lot of weight to the feeling that it ain't all its cracked up to be. If even the basic TM technique worked as advertised everyone in the world would be doing it, and we would already have the proverbial age of enlightenment. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:10 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote
Re: [FairfieldLife] Mahesh Yogi cremated with state honours
Les see, who was it that said the Indian gov'ment was notoriously corrupt? As much bribe money as marshy's nevvies have paid the Indian officials over the years how did you expect them to send him off? From: sri...@ymail.com sri...@ymail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 6:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Mahesh Yogi cremated with state honours http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/UttarPradesh/Mahesh-Yogi-cremated-with-state-honours/Article1-275051.aspx
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?
I Remember that the focus on money was the very first thing I started to wonder about in the years when I thought TM was the best things since sliced bread - speaking of which you would have been there when I was the baker - so if you ever ate in Annapurna you ate my bread and desserts - hope they didn't give you indigestion - speaking of which, when I was at MIU the head cook was an Israeli named Avraham who was adamantly against white sugar because his dad had become diabetic. When his birthday came up I made a huge sheet cake with honey instead of sugar and frosted it with whipped cream sweetened with honey also - I had to hide the fact that I had done so since this was just after ayurveda had been instituted and in the bakery we could not make any kind of fermented products (no sourdough bread) and no using honey as a sweetener since heating honey makes it tamasic. No one gave a flip except for this one guy named Vince who was a real hard core Movement fanatic who took as gospel ANYTHING that come down from any supervisor or was reputed to be official Movement policy. We had a lot of fun with him because he was also fanatical in enforcing the rule that only authorized kitchen personnel were to be in the kitchen EVER. He was like a police attack dog when he saw a stranger in the kitchen area looking for food - he would go over and raise hell with them and try to throw them out - he even did it to some of the security guys who would come in late for dinner. It used to drive the kitchen director crazy because sometimes there would be visiting TM dignitaries who might have come on campus after regular meal hours and were trying to get something to eat - Vince would get up in their face and tell them how their violation of official MIU policy was denigrating the University's efforts to bring enlightenment to the world - it was priceless to see the looks on their faces when he would spout off stuff like that. They had no idea how to respond except to say I am just trying to get something to eat. Avraham and Peter Ligotti used to see people they didn't recognize in the kitchen and sick Vince on them just to have some entertainment. The kitchen director couldn't tell Vince not to enforce the policy because sometimes students tried to come in and swipe hunks of cheese to take to their rooms and that sort of thing, but he had to run interference between TM big wigs and Vince. Anyway, Vince was adamantly against using honey in baking after the ayurvedic pronouncements had come out so I lied and told everyone that Avraham's cake was a regular cake with sugar, whispering to Avi that it was actually made with dark honey that my German buddy Danny had bought from an Amish farmer and had given to me. The cake was a three layer sheet cake about maybe one and a half to two feet tall covered in honey sweetened whipped cream with the design of the Israeli flag on top made with fresh blueberries. The cake attracted a lot of attention including from a number and I mean probably 15 or 20 people who asked for a piece (there was plenty) most of them were governors who I knew were totally on board with all ayurvedic stuff including the prohibition against baking with honey. The next day Avraham and I both thought it was funny as hell because about 7 or 8 of those ayurvedically correct governors came to us and complimented my cake saying it was literally the most delicious they had ever eaten and they felt the good effect as they slept and the next day in program. Nobody else in the kitchen knew what the two of us were laughing so much about. From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:34 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'? I was at MIU from 1981 to 1986 and also taught as adjunct faculty for some years after that, too. I understand your point of view as well. The movement was always slippery with money. Some years ago, I was in a position to donate some money to the university, so I found out from my former department what specific item they needed, bought it myself, transported it to the place where it was to be used, and installed it myself. That way, I knew that the money would be used for the intended purpose. I think that if one is involved in a spiritual organization like the TMO, you need a strong dose of rationality and the ability to guard your own personal integrity. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I understand - I had a friend who feels the same way - we were on MIU staff together - I in kitchen services she was in the fundraising dept. After I left she got her MBA, which somehow the movement paid for, put one of her sons thru high school there, went on TTC that also she got funding for thru the Movement - went on to be center chairman of a center in New
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lincoln
Barry this is very well said and something I needed to hear - thank you for this, I appreciate it. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 3:36 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lincoln --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: did you have any experience like Unity or God Consciousness or anything like that in the past that at the time led you to believe that the enlightenment thing was real? I am curious. Yup. First one was on my TTC course, when I popped into what felt pretty much like CC, and stayed there for a few weeks. Then it faded. So it goes. Since then I've had a number of enlightenment or awakening experiences of the (in TM-speak) CC or UC variety. I possibly skipped the GC stuff because I don't really believe in G. :-) I mention this not to toot my own horn or claim any state of consciousness or anything (the only SoC I claim to be in is NC -- Now Consciousness), but because the coming and going of these experiences was instructive in its own right. I didn't get to get *attached* to any of them, and I was never foolish enough to announce them to the world as if they were permanent. I've known a lot of folks who did that -- claimed to be fully enlightened and all -- and then had their experiences fade and go away, leaving them in the position of having to explain to their new followers that they weren't enlightened after all, or to (more common) pretend that the experiences were still going on, to keep the followers and their attention around. In retrospect, I have to say that I do not believe that ANY of these experiences I had were of higher states of consciousness, merely *different* ones. I don't feel that there was either a qualitative or quantitative betterness or higherness to any of the flashy experiences that made them any more significant than my normal, everyday exper- iences. These days I don't even seek such stuff. I just live my life, and the awakenings continue to come and go, seemingly on their own schedule, not mine. I try to enjoy them when they're around, and not to miss them when they're not, same as I do more ordinary experiences. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:33 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lincoln --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Bbut...wha wha wha what if we had us some visions of our past lives? What do we think then? (Happened to me at MIU - he he!) Well, I can speak with some confidence about this, having Been There Done That with past-life recol- lections. I've had dozens of *waking state* (as opposed to dream state during sleep or under the influence of drugs or rounding) flashbacks of myself living in previous eras. In most of them, the trigger or catalyst for the experience was being in the physical location where the supposed past events took place. I'd be walking around a 13th-century walled city in the south of France and the present-day city would just waver and go all hazy and then disappear, and all of the visuals were replaced by the same scene, but 800 years earlier. I'd be *in* my body as of that supposed incarnation, and able to look down and see what I was wearing, what my body type was, etc., and often it would have nothing to do with my present body type or style of dress. Then after a few seconds or minutes the experience would fade, and I'd be back in the present. And? Having had a number of these experiences, I have to describe them as So What? Nice experience, but it no more proves the existence of past lives than simply believing in them does. It could have been Just Another Brain Fart. Similarly, I have had remembered experiences of what it was like to traverse the Bardo between death and rebirth, in full color and 3D. Again, So What? All of this tends to make *me* believe in the possibility of reincarnation, but it doesn't prove shit. These were just my subjective experiences, and as such CANNOT BE TRUSTED. If science has taught us anything, it's that people can convince themselves that they have experienced almost *anything*. This convinced believerism often has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual events that the person can objectively be shown to have experienced. I'm chiming in on this because I think that a *lot* of people here tend to believe that if they experienced something subjectively, then it must be true. I do not believe this, even about my most intense or spiritual experiences. *At the best*, they were only What I Experienced, Subjectively. Nothing more. Truth, they ain't. Reality, they weren't, and will never be. The experiences were -- and will always remain -- subjective, going on only inside my head
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
When you worked on the first Dome did you meet a guy by the name of Richard Kilmer - big fella with a big booming voice - he was an architect? From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a total of three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, almost everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the verge, from going on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0 Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my TMSP - read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely sum of $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in mid-Winter with no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the *right* posters on the walls though.:-) Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key TMO events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped build the first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment. Attended the Taste of Utopia course in DC. Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described here ad nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the Govs, blatant hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though thankfully, except for my overall income for those three years working for the TMO, I didn't lose money on many courses. So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO and Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths. After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at the time, and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so that any BS in the TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of integrating myself into a normal, successful worldly life. If someone still feels the need to vent about their TMO experiences, and trot out the same old tired stories and accusations, they can go ahead, but when they say stuff like this, they *still* sound kinda dumb: :-) The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than any other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than any other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history. this makes you sound kinda dumb...just sayin'... Not dumb, dear Doctor. Here is the key thing. Many people who appear the most bitter are those who spent the most time, invested much of themselves, in the Movement whether it was in in the form of years, sweat, dedication or belief. This was a cost on some level. When someone has put so much of themselves into something and found it, in the end, wanting it seems to me natural that there is disappointment, bitterness, a foundation for defining/revealing, what went wrong. It is never a valid excuse that something isn't wrong because it happens all the time. Frequency of transgression does not override the seriousness of it. snip
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
or you could stop reading the post you think are a waste of time From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:59 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks Kind of...after thinking about it, I did a lot of the same stuff (no skills, savings, or education, at age 30 - hadn't even ever had a checking account!), due to my allegiance to the TMO for about ten years. Once I left, I had to work-my-ass-off, full-time job and school while starting a family - That went on for awhile. So if someone feels like they pissed away a decade or two, I am a member of that club. I am also a big proponent of sharing personal impressions - However, when does it stop? I have known people in my life who as a result of a significant trauma, which the TMO experiences appear to be for some, have made that their central and defining moment, like wearing a millstone of failure around their necks constantly. It seems like such a waste of time. See a therapist, talk to sympathetic friends, write a letter, make a phone call - something to get out of the cycle, as you suggested. The larger point --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I agree. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a total of three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, almost everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the verge, from going on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0 Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my TMSP - read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely sum of $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in mid-Winter with no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the *right* posters on the walls though.:-) Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key TMO events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped build the first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment. Attended the Taste of Utopia course in DC. Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described here ad nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the Govs, blatant hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though thankfully, except for my overall income for those three years working for the TMO, I didn't lose money on many courses. So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO and Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths. After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at the time, and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so that any BS in the TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of integrating myself into a normal, successful worldly life. I did the same as you. But, I think working for the TMO for 3 years is a lot less time than many people invested. Also, for many back in the 1970's, they were of an age when people go to grad school, or get started in a career, begin to set up an adult life. I know of a few people who felt very angry in retrospect, that they had spent their 20's and early 30's working for the TMO, only to find that they were without credentials or any savings by the time they decided Enuf. Despite this, many got on with their lives and made great successes of things, even if later in life. Some did not and would have benefitted from a more traditional life plan. I did not see tons of young Indians spending their 20's and 30's working for little compensation for the TMO. That would not have been ok with Indian parents, tradition or values. I think one of the problems was that the Westerners tried to have a foot in each camp: householder and devotee, and they often ended up without funds or experience to manage much in the real world as well as lost faith in the guru. I feel really grateful for TM and all my time in it, and I was lucky enough to manage grad school and a career a bit later. But I still get why some might feel that taking a large chunk of time out of the mainstream might have left a mark - that they never caught up. Especially if they are disappointed about the results of TM itself. Then they lost on both counts. If someone still feels the need to vent about their TMO experiences, and trot out the same old tired stories and accusations, they can go ahead, but when they say stuff like this, they *still* sound kinda dumb:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
Just curious - I met him long after in Atlanta - he was a world class architect - I saw some of the homes he designed in Atlanta - made your jaw drop when you say them - some people used to say his homes had a angelic presence about them. Richard claimed to have been the one responsible for getting the wooden hand rail in the men's dome - he said he wanted it there for the senior citizens ability to walk up the stairs - Bevan and some others overruled him on the basis that a curved hand rail was custom work and would be too expensive - so Richard said he went behind their backs, ordered the rail without their knowledge and raided the petty cash fund to pay for it when it was delivered - he and a few others were installing it and the higher ups raised hell with him and threw him off the project, threw him off campus too I think but I am not sure about that. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:03 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks Sorry, I don't remember him - I was on a support crew from the CAE project near Kansas City, so didn't get to know many of the guys doing the design. Probably my biggest regret from those days was while digging the foundation for the CAE near KC, I found a beautiful pre-Colombian axe head (verified by an archeologist on staff). A real treasure. Unfortunately, had no sense back then and gave it away after leaving. Oh well... BTW, last time I google mapped the KC CAE, it is being torn down for scrap. Fun project while it lasted. Unfortunately, didn't survive the sthapatya veda craze, as it had a, gulp, south facing entrance. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: When you worked on the first Dome did you meet a guy by the name of Richard Kilmer - big fella with a big booming voice - he was an architect? From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks  Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a total of three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, almost everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally on the verge, from going on TTC - it wouldn't have been pretty.:-0 Working for the TMO, I went on tons of residence courses, earned my TMSP - read the Gita numerous times, took SCI - and earned the princely sum of $25/mo., slept in an unheated garage, or a run down shack in mid-Winter with no plumbing - in the Midwest and Catskills. Had all the *right* posters on the walls though.:-) Continued TMSP for 13 years, and TM since 1975. Took part in some key TMO events - attended Doug Henning's second wedding in the Dome, helped build the first dome, helped build a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment. Attended the Taste of Utopia course in DC. Got screwed in many of the same ways as have been already described here ad nauseum - Experienced loss of course credit, arrogance of the Govs, blatant hypocrisy, pitiful living and working conditions, though thankfully, except for my overall income for those three years working for the TMO, I didn't lose money on many courses. So, I just don't know what the standard is for investment in the TMO and Maharishi, that continues to leave a bitter taste in so many mouths. After I left in the early 80's, I continued to pursue my own stuff, and continued to carefully peel away the BS from whatever my truth was at the time, and now. Got immersed in the world, family and career, so that any BS in the TMO continued to burn itself out, in the course of integrating myself into a normal, successful worldly life. If someone still feels the need to vent about their TMO experiences, and trot out the same old tired stories and accusations, they can go ahead, but when they say stuff like this, they *still* sound kinda dumb: :-) The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than any other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: The TMO is in my opinion no more corrupt and awful (and no less) than any other spiritual organization or religion or cult in human history. this makes you sound kinda dumb...just sayin'... Not dumb, dear Doctor. Here is the key thing. Many people who appear the most bitter are those who spent the most time, invested much of themselves, in the Movement whether it was in in the form of years, sweat, dedication or belief. This was a cost on some level. When someone has put so much of themselves
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Guy walks into a bar (Was: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?)
Excellent excellent points from both of you! From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 6:03 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Guy walks into a bar (Was: What is the TMO's concept of 'Heaven on Earth'?) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: You know, I've been thinking for years, why the world doesn't just jump on board with the whole TM/TMSP program, since it is just simply logical from a scientific POV. Then I was just thinking how many times i've asked a woman out, or tried to spark up a conversation and simply got the cold shoulder. I could easily come up with a hundred reasons why she shouldn't be so cold and distant. I could potentially be the best thing that ever happened to her. But that is all from a subjective point of view, no subjectivity whatsoever. First, maybe I should take a look at myself. Maybe I dress poorly, maybe my breath stinks, maybe i'm not as good looking as I think I am. Then I also have to check my personality. Maybe i'm coming off the wrong way, perhaps I'm using the same old pickup lines that simply turn women off. Maybe i'm being too aggressive and unnatural in the conversation. Then I also have to consider what this woman has been through. How many times has she had her heart broken by someone who looks and acts just like me? Is she divorced, is she a single mother just trying to make ends meet, has she been abused by men in the past? All these questions have to be asked before I run around with the attitude that this woman is so stupid not to pay attention to how awesome of a guy I am. I look at the TMO the same way. So many TB's simply spout off all the scientific research and how readily every society should just adopt TM immediately. The TMO seems to ask no serious questions of itself in terms of how they are coming off to the mass public. Below are some questions that I think are very important to ask before the TMO continues its campaign: 1. Does our behavior and personality of our TM Governors come off strange to people? 2. Does any of the video footage of our founder, MMY, perhaps scare off people when he praises dictators like Fidel Castro, among others? 3. Does the apparent apathy and sloth of TM/TMSP practitioners cause non TM'ers to doubt the validity of their claims to more effectiveness? 4. Does the TMO possess any similar traits to other cults that have led their members to mass death/suicide? 5. Does the TMO seem to come off too aggressive and unnatural in their plea for government to adopt TM? 6. Do some of the decisions made by the TMO that have screwed up other people's lives cause doubt about their intentions? (ex: a doctor packed up all his belongings and moved his practice to Boone, NC with an agreement to work at Heavenly Mountain, only to be denied at the last minute that his designated building would be utilized for something else, and he was no longer needed) 7. Do the financial dealings of the TMO give people any reason to be suspicious of their honesty (ex: bake sales for MSAE had money sent to India instead of MSAE). 8. Do some of the unreasonable demands of TM/TMSP practitioners in Fairfield cause non-TM'ers to look at them like they're idiots (ex: meditators wanted the city of Fairfield to adjust their garbage collection schedule according to the meditation time) These are only a fraction of questions I think should be asked. Here are a few more: 9. Are these people SO weird that they don't even *know* that they're weird? Are they so out of it that they actually think that they're coming across as normal? 10. Do these people have a tendency to become angry and lash out at anyone who criticizes their organization, its founder, its current leaders, and them? Your asking someone out metaphor is apt, and effective. The clueless guy always blaming his track record of getting shot down by every woman he approaches is in most cases acting from a platform of pure ego and narcissism. He thinks, If they rejected me, they just can't see how wonderful I am the way I can see that in myself. Therefore *they're* the ones at fault here, the ones who are stupid. Not me. Suffice it to say that this is *precisely* the TMO's act as well. It *never* steps back to wonder what IT could be doing wrong to have been so thoroughly rejected by so many people for so many years. There is a simple reason -- they're acting like a cult, and individually, like cultists. People aren't interested in the products they are selling, because *they* are the personi- fication of what those products *produce*. Who on earth would want to be like most of the TB TMers one meets? You'd have to be a pretty big loser to want that.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process of processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have tired also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do so many people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like asses or become completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot do. I appreciate your posting these words. I was re-reading part of Earl Kaplan's letter and want to know what you think of this part: One other important point is that the mechanical repetition of a mantra without meaning or devotion brings no spiritual progress whatsoever. This point is referred to in the yoga sutras and in many discussions of great spiritual teachers. The mechanical repetition of some meaningless word brings no opening of the heart, no love in one's life, and no unfoldment of true spiritual values. Haven't you ever wondered why so many people in the TM movement seemed so heartless, especially the administrators the early courses? It was because their mechanical repetition of a meaningless word was actually closing their heart, not opening it. That is why so many people in the TM movement have suffered a sort of disassociation with so much of their life where they don't have the same feelings they used to. It's not because they are more highly evolved, it is because they are disconnected from their hearts. What do you think about this? From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 10:15 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks What, Richard, what? I don't get to express an opinion? Of course I'm an asshole -- everyone is. And remember these opinions are from a brain that did 30 years of TM, 44,000 hours in the chair, 2,000 taught -- how could TM be such a nothing technique that it didn't even dent my revulsion of the movement's leaders? If I was not improved, and my opinion is for shit, then these leaders are leaders of a movement that is offering a technique that doesn't work -- so they're frauds -- or, as I have said: ASSHOLES! Who doesn't think their thoughts are legit until otherwise persuaded? These Rajas were snobby, prideful, uncaring about the rights of others, dismissive, and on and on. Not always, but often. Not to me personally, so much. as it was to EVERY. ONE. THEY. KNEW. One of these guys was fond of snapping his fingers to get people doing something -- like a Nazi SS. Which reminds me of this time I personally walked over and handed a check for $500 to yet another TM minor-leader, and he too perfunctorily snapped his fingers to get me to give him the check and leave his office. Fuck, eh? The $500 was chicken feed to him. I've know six of the movement's super-rich -- hundreds of millions in net worth each. All of them strutted around like feudal lordsnot even nice to their wives. It's the money -- it corrupts..corrupts everyone. Even a person making $30,000 a year looks down on a homeless person in the streets.like that, the ego glues itself to symbols to make itself real. BAH! And double BAH! on the movement for offering position, access and privilege to the rich -- so that they could be milked dry by Girish et alia. This was two decades ago -- who knows, I have gotten better as a human in that time, so certainly they will have been smacked enough by karma to sand down a lot of their rough spots. Humility can come in an instant, so who knows what they've evolved into by now. The acid test is what they do with their money and how they treat their minions. And those who are rich and fight to remain decent human beings are as if funneled into their personalities by dint of the movement's impoverished masses who relentlessly beg from the rich for loans, gifts, and investment in gonzo business deals. And the movement is knocking on their door for more cash EVERY. DAY. Shit, even I get asked for donations by the TMO at least ten times a year. Simply trying to avoid all that rush for their gold turns the rich into fear-everyone types, and it shows when you try to approach the rich with anything but hey, try the bean casserole. They smell your beggary from 100 feet away. So, on that level, I pity them, because they are always hiding out from the masses, and having to have only people like them to hob nob with. Vicious cycle that. Now-a-days, mostly I see TM as a scam. The technique probably can be used to good effect, but what that is and how it compares to other techniques is just not clear. I'm all for anything that lessens physiological excitation, but I could rattle of a hundred ways to obtain that. I like the idea of the Holy Tradition, but where was it ever honored? Maharishi FORBID any translation of Guru Dev's words, right? Ask L.B., right? The movement has never NEVER NEVER
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
Man that is gorgeous - thanks for posting it and the story - I wish Richard was still around to tell his stories - he passed away in Texas last year - in addition to his design skill he was a hell of a clarinet player till he lost hearing in one ear. If you decide to read his obit here you will note his family said not one word about his former affiliation with the TMO http://www.steedtodd.com/services.asp?page=odetailid=20328locid=18 From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 2:56 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Just curious - I met him long after in Atlanta - he was a world class architect - I saw some of the homes he designed in Atlanta - made your jaw drop when you say them - some people used to say his homes had a angelic presence about them. Richard claimed to have been the one responsible for getting the wooden hand rail in the men's dome - he said he wanted it there for the senior citizens ability to walk up the stairs - Bevan and some others overruled him on the basis that a curved hand rail was custom work and would be too expensive - so Richard said he went behind their backs, ordered the rail without their knowledge and raided the petty cash fund to pay for it when it was delivered - he and a few others were installing it and the higher ups raised hell with him and threw him off the project, threw him off campus too I think but I am not sure about that. Lovely story. I am just an architecture nut, and get off on not only wonderfully-designed spaces, but the often equally wonder- fully-designed stories of how they got that way. In Santa Fe there was the Miraculous Staircase. It was located within a small Catholic chapel, formerly a nunnery, nowadays called the Loretto Chapel. The story goes like this. The order had enough money to build the chapel, and even to build a choir loft overlooking the chapel from which the more tuneful nuns could sing. But they ran out of money before they could build an actual way to *get to* this choir loft. So for years the nuns had to sing from the back pews of the chapel itself. Then one day some long-haired, bearded guy wanders by, leading (no shit) a donkey and carrying a box of carpenter's tools, and asks for a handout. Noticing that the choir loft lacks a staircase leading to it, he offers to build it for them. They take him up on his offer. The staircase to this day befuddles scientists. It is made from wood not native to the area. It is constructed entirely organically, with no nails or artificial elements keeping it together, only pegs carved from the same wood as the stairs, and no apparent central support. And then there's the question of what it fuckin' LOOKS LIKE, which is this (the railing was added much later...the original staircase was just the stairs you see in the photo): Then, as the legend goes, the carpenter who build all of this just fuckin' disappears, without asking for payment. Naturally, the Catholics believe that it was either St. Joseph, or Jesus himself. Me, I think it's a better story if it was just a wandering carpenter, someone who took pride in doing a good job with whatever he built, such that it would bring joy to other people. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:03 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks  Sorry, I don't remember him - I was on a support crew from the CAE project near Kansas City, so didn't get to know many of the guys doing the design. Probably my biggest regret from those days was while digging the foundation for the CAE near KC, I found a beautiful pre-Colombian axe head (verified by an archeologist on staff). A real treasure. Unfortunately, had no sense back then and gave it away after leaving. Oh well... BTW, last time I google mapped the KC CAE, it is being torn down for scrap. Fun project while it lasted. Unfortunately, didn't survive the sthapatya veda craze, as it had a, gulp, south facing entrance. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: When you worked on the first Dome did you meet a guy by the name of Richard Kilmer - big fella with a big booming voice - he was an architect? From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks  Hi WB, I know that, also - I worked for the TM guys, on staff, for a total of three years, and bought into *everything*. Everything. Well, almost everything...my guardian angels stopped me literally
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks
that was hilarious - thanks for that - I needed a laugh today From: raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:52 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth for Marshy's Kin Folks --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote: I have to argue with you on that - first of all I said not all, but a lot. Of course not all long term TM'ers are ineffective in life, just at not all TM teacher turn into unpleasant people like the TMO leaders often do - I have for example praised Jerry Jarvis with whom I had limited interaction but for his status in the Movement at the time he was a real fine fellow - he treated me and the other meditators at the Atlanta Center very well - he was not aloof, arrogant or dismissive of people who were not of his rank within the Movement. On the opposite end of the scale I also had dealings with Gene Speigel, Susan Humphries, Chris Crowell, Greg Wilson and his wife Georgina who were all aloof, arrogant, unpleasant and Georgina W. looked me right dead in my eyes and told me a flat out lie. The behavior of A LOT of long time TM'ers in leadership roles is not what one would expect of ANYONE who did TM if TM had the effect it is advertised to have. As a former MIU faulty member you cannot seriously deny the sloth and inefficiency that existed in that place and in most Movement facilites - the stories of this are legion - I am speaking from experience. I lived and and dealt with it on a daily basis. I acknowledge that there are long time TM'ers who are successful like Seinfeld. I don't know what it is that makes the phenomenon occur of the TM walking dead - but please don't deny it exists. There are too many people who post here who can vouch for the TM brain dead - having said that some of them I like and had good friendships with. MJ: TM does not work as advertized. RD: uh-huh... MJ: I've seen walking dead people. RD: uh-hun...continue... MJ: Stories of their slothfulness are legion. RD: How so? MJ: They are brain dead. RD: gasp I'm starting to get the picture. MJ: Earl Kaplan says they are disconnected from their hearts. RD: I've got it! MJ: Got what? RD: Zombies! You're talking about fucking Zombies! MJ: You're full of shit. RD: No, no, really. Listen, MJ we have to *do* something about this before it's too late. MJ: Too late for what? RD: The Zombie apocalypse. MJ: You're starting to scare me. RD: Don't you get it? Zombies eat brains! MJ: Yes! And TM makes you brain dead! OMG this is worse than I thought. RD: Exactly. MJ: What should we do? RD: Have dinner. MJ: What? RD: I'm thinking Fava beans and a nice Tuscan chianti. But the point is that TM is SUPPOSED to lead to excellence in action it is ADVERTISED to improve life in many respects including ones performance of one's allotted duty so to speak and IF TM were truly the universal balm universally appropriate for everyone with the same effect in everyone them we should expect that everyone should do TM and become as successful as Jerry Seinfeld and Clint Eastwood. TM proponents claim that TM leads to many physiological benefits like lower blood pressure, improved heart functioning and so forth. Is it out of bounds to assume that the mental/emotional and behavioral benefits advertised by the TMO would also be universally seen in all populations that do TM? Yet the benefits are not seen universally therefore I personally have no choice but to conclude that TM does not perform as advertised. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Just a quick reaction to this: just because people stop doing something doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work or isn't doing them good. Exercise is a good example. How many people start exercise programs and discontinue them, even though they know it is good for them? With TM, you do have to make the time for it, and not everyone is willing to do that on a long-term basis. Also, the TM critics here seem to accept the idea that many long-term meditators are ineffective in life (as you put it). I'm not convinced of that at all. Recently Jerry Seinfeld was on ABC talking about his 40-year TM practice. Thousands of other very successful people are long-term TMers, and this association between ineffectiveness and long-term TM seems to me decidedly unproven and most probably untrue. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Wow - there is a lot here - at least for me as I have been in the process of processing my feelings/experiences with TM these last months - I have tired also to make that point that if TM is actually as effective why do so many people quit? Why do so many people who do TM long term act like asses or become completely ineffective in life? Not everyone, but a lot
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Triguna Passes to Turq
I disagree - it is no longer ancient history since the David Lynch Foundation as the front organization for TMO is attempting to re-introduce a sanitized TM back into mainstream society via media blitz and celebrity endorsements - I am opposed to them rooking innocent people looking for meditation into being part of this world - it is a different TMO than when I started in 1974 and now more than ever they look at every potential meditator as a potential cash cow. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Triguna Passes to Turq It was not an official sign by the TMO. There was no they involved. The sign was put up by an anonymous someone on the bulletin board in the coat room of the women's Dome where other life transitions such as births and weddings and birthdays and anniversaries are announced. That person was expressing their own opinion about Triguna's death occurring on Jan 1, the day when many are beginning the traditional week of silence. Yes, I know the world I inhabit. And you do NOT know it, Turq. You merely continue to project onto it your own unresolved stuff. Stuff from decades ago. Ok, I have unresolved stuff too. But at least I have the good sense to recognize it and do something about it that I think is benficial. For God's sake, man, get over the TMO already! It's a new year and all that is ancient history. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 1:07 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Triguna Passes --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: There is a sign up in Bagambhrini Dome saying how auspicious it is that he passed on the first day of silence in the new year. OK, commenting not to be nasty or insulting or anything like that, just to see whether you understand the nature of the world you live in, you DO understand, do you not, that they would have said the same thing if Paul McCartney had died on this day, or David Lynch? It's not about auspiciousness. It's about the TMO trying to co-opt *everything* related to a famous TMer to make it All About Us. Triguna died. The Maharishi-invented days of silence started. There is no relationship between the two events. When someone tries to create one, I think it is justified to ask Why?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
This post shows the elitism that Maha started and that easily took hold on the Fourth Reich mentality all of us have to some degree - in this case that if one is not one of the chosen ones, the TM TB'ers then one is nothing and has nothing of value to contribute. Of course Edg and Turq have covered this but I wanted to give my Never Again TM Self the opportunity to speak. From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators 2013 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Sorting Apostasy and meditators does work on a level. You know, there are meditators and TM-movement meditators and then others. Meditators after all are either for it or against it as apostates. As a conservative meditator I'd just assume delete the fallen away meditator-apostates as non-meditators. That works. Damned apostate meditators anyway. Plainly, I don't understand why non-meditators even get to be members here let alone post here. Let 'em be lurkers but posting members, no. Frankly this list here could be spiritually improved quite a lot if Rick would tighten up and clean-up the membership towards people who are at least actually meditation practitioners. Hasten the day. -Buck in the Dome
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Triguna Passes
the things that have worked well for me have been acupuncture, some ayurvedice herbs, Chinese formulas and TCM (traditional chinese medicine) but you gotta be damn careful where you get the Chinese herbs - I have also seen acupuncture and TCM have a good effect on animals - I would have to include chiropractic with both humans and animals as having good effect - this is from personal experience, chiro on me, and I observed the difference in friend's horses after having a veterinary chiropractor work on them. Oh, one other thing that has worked well with muscle tightness, stiffness or dysfunction of one type or another and that has ben various type of kinesiology (mainly the form called Touch for Health) From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 2:05 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Triguna Passes --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: Pampering for the worried well is what they call alternative medicine over here. When you aren't well is when to drop it. Excellent. My forays into science writing and having to delve into the verifiable scientific support for different treatment options (and all too often the utter lack thereof) have left me with even a worse opinion of alternative medicine than of traditional medicine. This buzzphrase kinda nails the mindset of those who (in my opinion, of course) pay the big bucks to quacks primarily because they pay attention to *them*. Another great buzzphrase I've heard lately from the UK was the description used in the press for some of the WAY upper-class baby birthing clinics in the UK catering to the uber-rich and specializing in pumping them so full of drugs that they are barely conscious of the actual birth -- Too posh to push.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Happy New Year FFL!!!
He might have been referring to me as I have made several references to M and Company riding around in Bentlys which was meant as a metaphor for begging for money to fund all these big important projects and spending it on themselves. Evidently he requires statement of facts in everyone's posts - which is why I am so impressed that he has shared with us the incontrovertible fact that lots of folks are popping into CC all the time on another post - I laughed out loud when I read it. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 4:44 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Happy New Year FFL!!! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Dear Dr.; there are actually also quite a lot of people here in Fairfield invibed in these very same retirement values. Have Come about it in the same way through the movement and meditating. Most meditators are spiritual and not Rajas. Of course the monied people got all the attention over the years. But the real story is these quiet people living rich lives otherwise. Fairfield that way is an incredibly easy place to live a very good low overhead high quality intentional spiritual life. There is quite a large community of people living quite intentionally like you that way here. You don't actually see them cause they don't necessarily show it. like your Jag in the lean-to. M kept his Bentley's hidden most of the time too. I wonder why the Buddhist keep insisting that Maharishi had Bentley's. It's as if they learned from Goebbels that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes a truth to the ignorant. Maharishi never had a Bentley or RR, never. Not one. Although it is a lot like coals to Newcastle to point out Nabby's bigotry, fear, elitism, and hatred, I shall do so, for the record. Unless Buck has somehow become a Buddhist overnight, I don't think any Buddhist on this forum has ever suggested that Maharishi had a Bentley. That's Nabby's paranoid fantasy, the same one that causes him to see Big Bad Buddhists lurking behind every bush, working diligently to diss the oh-so-superior Maharishi. While invoking the name of fellow German Goebbels, he ACTS LIKE HIM by repeating yet again yet another lie. What kind of abject fear and elitism could cause some- one to *think* like this? How much conditioning and brainwashing were necessary to turn some German twit living in Norway -- who in all likelihood has never met an actual Buddhist in his life -- to fear them so much, to look down on them so much, and to put his bigotry on display for all to see? It almost blows one's mind. On the other hand, I think that Nabby has probably single-handedly done more to turn people OFF of TM and Maharishi than any person ever posting to FFL. *Anyone* with half a brain can see that he is a fanatic, and a rather nasty one at that. His elitism is a classic example of the very WORST that Maharishi ever had to offer, as is the wearing-blinders vision he has of Maharishi, TM, and their relative importance in the cosmic scheme of things. In reality, we all know that -- because of his Off The Program activities with an even *bigger* charlatan than Maharishi, Benjamin Creme, Nabby would never be allowed within a hundred yards of an official TM flying dome. He's FAR more Off The Program than Doug (Buck) ever was. I honestly don't know whether his hateful approach comes from his many years of being subjected to MMY's closeted bigotry, or whether it's just a product of being German. It's a mystery. But wherever it came from, I give thanks for Nabby and his presence here, because NO ONE ON EARTH could read what he writes and come away from it with a positive view of either TM and what it produces in its followers, or of Maharishi and what he produced in his extreme cultists. He's a one-man army, doing battle to turn people away from the very thing he thinks he's promoting. As I've explained to him many times, and has he has *still* failed to understand, I'M NOT EVEN A BUDDHIST. Neither was Vaj, although both of us have studied with Buddhist teachers. But Nabby will have none of it. He's so convinced of the validity of the word Buddhist he uses the same way a Southern bigot uses the word Nigger that he'll keep using it. He's equally convinced that the Dalai Lama has so little to do that he trains people to go out and get TMers. This is a level of paranoia and self- importance that is difficult to fathom. And (other than the German thang), it seems to ALL be the result of a lifetime of indoctrination in Maharishi's teach- ings and example. What a legacy, eh?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Triguna Passes to Turq
I know I can't post this for several days but Oh My God - here is the king of accusing people of making statements with no facts to back them up claiming that people are popping into Cosmic Consciousness from long practice of TM??? You must be popping pills along with your daily TM - what are they peyote? Mescaline? psilocybin tea? From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 6:18 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Triguna Passes to Turq --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Yes, I know the world I inhabit. And you do NOT know it, Turq. You merely continue to project onto it your own unresolved stuff. Stuff from decades ago. Ok, I have unresolved stuff too. But at least I have the good sense to recognize it and do something about it that I think is benficial. For God's sake, man, get over the TMO already! It's a new year and all that is ancient history. He can't get over Maharishi, simply can't. Even more than 40 years since he did a stint in the Movement, even studying with other teachers and becoming a Buddhist cannot erase the memory of the TMO and Maharishi to such a extent that he still today, decades after he last saw a video of Maharishi uses the majority of his 50 alotted posts here to try to trash the only real Saint he was ever within a mile of. What an everlasting impression Maharishi must have done to this poor soul ! Well, now you know how TM transforms a person's life! You can add it to the list of movement successes. This is actually a very important observation. Why do a proportion of people who practice TM end up doing what turquoiseb does? Interesting question. 0.1 % ? His hate is unique. Perhaps, and this is only a theory ofcourse; the success of the Movement in countries formerly dominated by Buddhism is one factor. Another is that people obviously are popping in to CC due to long-term practise of TM. The Turq is no fool even though he behaves like one, he is aware of this success and it reminds him that his life was wasted in wasting time making him an angry and bitter old man. Add to the support for David Lynch from a galaxy of Hollywood celebrities and famous directors (many of whom have not yet stepped forward) and the salt is just being rubbed into his open wounds. And I haven't even mentioned the 8000 school-children now doing YF in Central America with perhaps as many as 29000 will practise within the end of this year... The organisation seems to studiously avoid follow-up of its programs to find out how it actually works out with everyone. The only study I have seen that followed up indicated that only 20% of learners meditated regularly, and a similar proportion on occasion, and the rest stopped. Perhaps, perhaps not. Noone really studied this probably because it is far more interesting to focus on the possibilities and new, younger generations. There will always be people who stop TM, like stopping any other practise, for a zillion of reasons. In my case I did not stop, but lately, the last two or three years or so, due to the changes in the quality of my experience, the structure of my meditations has been spontaneously morphing so that, in the strictest sense of its process, I am not doing TM that much anymore, but I still meditate. Perhaps something good is happening ? If you doubt what is happening why not consult someone you trust. There is a Dr.Dumbass here who seems to be pretty much in the know of many things pertaining to the growth of higher states of consciousness, why not discuss it with him ?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The real armageddon....
It's my guess that if that hunk of rock comes crashing down on Earth the Men's Dome will be right in its cross hairs - isn't comforting to know, Buck that you will be feeling Maharishi's Bliss going up your spine as you bounce across the Dome just as the asteroid slams into and flattens everything around you??? From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 7, 2013 7:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The real armageddon It would be real nice to get the Dome numbers of people meditating up before this happens. **!The sky is Falling!** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: I can say with a high degree of confidence that this is how the world ends, maybe not with this particular asteroid, this particular time but someday. For a start, it's happened before - a good many times and with a great deal of mass extinction. Sure, every time a big one hits there's one less big one *to* hit but just in my life there have been several instances of previously unknown asteroids crossing between the Earth and Moon. In 1989 one that, had it been travelling one millionth of a mile an hour slower, would have hit in the middle of the atlantic and set off every volcano and earthquake faultline on earth, not to mention swamping Europe, Africa and the America's with the resulting tsunami. Hardly a rare occurrence then but something to loose sleep over? Not for me but just think, there were three in the last century that struck land, one in Siberia, one in Arabia and one in south America. No known casualties but there was massive destruction in each case. Millions of felled trees in Tunguska, a desert melted into glass in Arabia. I often wonder what would have happened at the height of the cold war if, say, New York or Moscow had been suddenly vapourised by an incoming comet. Would the powers that be been able to stop themselves retaliating against the mistaken foe? Most of these things are unknown before they flash by close enough to part our hair, cosmically speaking, without us being aware of their existence - except this one. Anyway, it's all just something to help keep life in perspective Apophis – a 'potentially hazardous' asteroid – flies by Earth on Wednesday Asteroid Apophis arrives this week for a close pass of Earth. This isn't the end of the world but a new beginning for research into potentially hazardous asteroids [A computer generated image of a near Earth asteroid] A computer-generated image of a near-Earth asteroid. Astronomers will get a close-up view of Apophis on Wednesday. Photograph: Planetary Resources/EPA Apophis hit the headlines in December 2004. Six months after its discovery, astronomers had accrued enough images to calculate a reasonable orbit for the 300-metre chunk of space rock. What they saw was shocking. There was a roughly 1 in 300 chance of the asteroid hitting Earth during April 2029. Nasa issued a press release spurring astronomers around the world to take more observations in order to refine the orbit. Far from dropping, however, the chances of an impact on (you've guessed it) Friday 13 April 2029 actually rose. By Christmas Day 2004, the chance of the 2029 impact was 1 in 45 and things were looking serious. Then, on 27 December astronomers had a stroke of luck. Looking back through previous images, they found one from March on which the asteroid had been captured but had gone unnoticed. This significantly improved the orbital calculation and the chances of the 2029 impact dropped to essentially zero. However, the small chance of an impact in 2036 opened up and remains open today . While there is no cause for alarm, similarly there is no room for complacency either. Apophis remains on the list of Potentially Hazardous Asteroids compiled by the International Astronomical Union's Minor Planet Center. Although most asteroids are found in the belt of space between Mars and Jupiter, not all of them reside there. Apophis belongs to a group known as theAten family . These do not belong to the asteroid belt and spend most of their time inside the orbit of the Earth, placing them between our planet and the sun. That makes them particularly dangerous because they spend the majority of their orbit close to the sun, whose overwhelming glare obscures them to telescopes on Earth – rather like a second world war fighter ace approaching out of the sun. Having crossed outside Earth's orbit, Apophis will appear briefly in the night-time sky. Wednesday 9 January will afford astronomers the rare opportunity to bring a battery of telescopes to bear: from optical telescopes to radio telescopes to the European Space Agency's Infrared Space Observatory Herschel. Two of the biggest unknowns that remain to
Re: [FairfieldLife] MSAE graduate on youtube
This guy is whacked out - again, Marshy's energy - there have been and continue to be guru wannabes who start with TM and go off to start their own schtick. Learn from a demagogue, become a demagogue. Follow a huckster, become a huckster. From: laughinggull108 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 2:57 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] MSAE graduate on youtube From TMFree, apparently a graduate of MSAE who's got his own little thing going. Thoughts anyone? http://youtu.be/T1V_JD9rODk
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MSAE graduate on youtube - the guy's probably sincere
Yeah the fact that he was brain buzzed by thousands of hours of exposure to the most successful con man of the 20th century filled him with desire to follow in his footsteps - he is as much of a huckster as Marshy was. From: mainstream20016 mainstream20...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MSAE graduate on youtube - the guy's probably sincere Matthew is probably the son of Walter Reifslager, Jr., a long-time TMer, and grandson of a Walter, Sr., a recently deceased very community-minded and honorable Psychiatrist in Austin. Or a close relative thereof of those two gentlemen. Until proven to be otherwise, or to harm someone, he deserves the opportunity to expound that which he sincerely believes, even if he's deceived himself. Exponents of a new version of reality regularly pay a heavy price. Of course, it's not ironic that FFL's sets such a high threshold for acceptance. If he is an MSAE grad, he's had thousands of hours of exposure to MMYs discourses. IMHO he's contributing to creation of new knowledge. I'm not drawn to it, but may he be given room to try to 'splain it as he sees it. -Mainstream --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote: He's doing a take-off on some new agish types, right? This is a joke, right? No, it's not a joke. From what I've heard, it's a very messed up cult trip where the guy controls people by telling them, Divine Mother says..., even to the point of people going into debt to support him financially. I watched some of the video, and I'm creeped out by it. There's a sucker born every minute. These creepy gurus are laughing all the way to the bank and man are they getting off on the adulation, big time. Anyone want to go crash the party? It could be a riot. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 wrote: From TMFree, apparently a graduate of MSAE who's got his own little thing going. Thoughts anyone? http://youtu.be/T1V_JD9rODk
Re: [FairfieldLife] A FFL Meditator Survey
I suggest you read Anita Moorjani's Dying to Be Me from cover to cover and see what her perspective might do for your perspective. From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 9:16 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] A FFL Meditator Survey Posit, For where two or three (or more) have come together in meditation, the transcendence is there amidst them. That, Over 600 scientific research studies conducted during the past 35 years at more than 250 independent universities and research institutes in thirty-three countries have shown that the practice of transcending benefits all areas of individual life—mind, body, behavior, and society. Included in this research is compelling evidence that even a small group of practitioners of the Transcendental Meditation program—as few as 1% of a population—create a positive influence on society reducing crime, accidents and other negative trends. This overall increase of positivity in societal trends arises from the increasing purity in collective consciousness of the entire population created by hundreds of individuals experiencing the pure silence and peace of Transcendental Consciousness. This phenomenon, first discovered by scientists in 1974, was named the Maharishi Effect in honor of Maharishi who had predicted it more than a decade earlier. The discovery of the Maharishi Effect by modern science established a new formula for the creation of an ideal peaceful society, free from crime and problems. Experientially, For Practicing transcending meditators who post to or lurk here on FFL, Agree: [This is my experience]. Disagree: [This is not my experience]. To respond to this survey, hit 'reply', answer, ' send': 49 doctordumbass@..., non-meditator 36 Emily Reyn non-meditator 34 Carol 33 Share Long 30 turquoiseb Disagree 29 Ann 26 authfriend 21 salyavin808 Agree 21 nablusoss1008 Agree 20 Buck 15 Bhairitu 13 card 12 raunchydog 12 Alex Stanley 9 obbajeeba 7 Bob Price 6 Susan 6 Jason 5 Xenophaneros Anartaxius 5 Duveyoung non-meditator 5 emilymae.reyn 4 feste37 4 John 3 wgm4u 3 seventhray27 3 seekliberation 3 merudanda Agree 3 merlin 2 emptybill 2 azgrey non-meditator 2 Ravi Chivukula 2 Richard J. Williams 1 laughinggull108 1 Rick Archer Agree 1 martin.quickman Agree 1 Dick Mays
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Triguna Passes
I have to admit I agree with you on this, although I have received benefit from some ayurvedic herbs - actually not formulas but single herbs that have helped me with both diabetes and kidney stones - I know that folks are lionizing Triguna and I had no personal experience of him but when I read the stories of people who did like telling Chopra to look at the moon I am thinking this guy was some sort of health wizard?!?!? If he was then Marshy used him to give credibility to the TMO. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 11:33 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Triguna Passes --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Trigunaji 1916- 1 Jan 2013 In honor of Trigunaji's passing, Interesting start to a story that seems to underline the whole ayurveda story to me. It doesn't work. Triguna's herbs were bitter. I managed to get the herbs past my taste buds by mixing them with a small shot of tea, bolting it down and then chasing it with a big cup of tea. Never drink anything is India that isn't boiled. Anyway, the herbs didn't seem to work and I ended up taking Western medicine, which knocked out the bug in my bad bowel. Taking western medicine Raunchy, very shrewd. I've always thought that experimenting with auyrveda (and all alternative health scams) was fine *as long as there is nothing wrong with you* I know people that would still be alive if they hadn't swallowed, hook line and stinker, the whole perfect science of health bit that Marshy via Triguna was plugging. In fact I know someone who is very seriously ill because he eschewed anti-biotics in favour of stone age hopefulness. Upon becoming ill he took himself off to Marshy's favourite ayurveda clinic where, after a predictably large fortune had been spent -and a cure not forthcoming- he was told there must be some doubt in you. Good medicine! Still, there's always the yagya programme to fall back on. Throwing good money after bad IMO but when you truly believe this stuff what else can you do? The TMO abandoned common sense a long time ago, leave it in the hands of the gods! Might as well as spend any more money on ayurveda . My friend will probably die a long slow miserable death and everyone will rationalise it in the usual way and blame it on his planets or rakshasas or something similarly untestable. Sometimes I think a crime is being committed but maybe it's just the crime of stupidity. After all we are intelligent people who are free to make choices based on evidence or beliefs. Seems a shame that an org like the TMO with its proclaimed belief in science has such a shaky superstitious core lying just beneath the surface, they might be in a position to help people by recommending they go to a proper doctor instead of clinging to the dream that they have all the answers by taking your pulse and telling you to stare at the moon. So why all the reverence? Would you really want to live in a world where ayurveda was the only method of healthcare? Anyone? Jai Guru Dev, Trigunaji, rest in peace.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MSAE graduate on youtube - the guy's probably sincere
I wasn't able to post since I had used up my post allotment last week From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:37 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MSAE graduate on youtube - the guy's probably sincere Hey MJ, you're on quite a roll. You must be feeling much better letting go of that pent up angst. How many more saved up posts do you reckon you have? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Yeah the fact that he was brain buzzed by thousands of hours of exposure to the most successful con man of the 20th century filled him with desire to follow in his footsteps - he is as much of a huckster as Marshy was. From: mainstream20016 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:11 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MSAE graduate on youtube - the guy's probably sincere  Matthew is probably the son of Walter Reifslager, Jr., a long-time TMer, and grandson of a Walter, Sr., a recently deceased very community-minded and honorable Psychiatrist in Austin. Or a close relative thereof of those two gentlemen. Until proven to be otherwise, or to harm someone, he deserves the opportunity to expound that which he sincerely believes, even if he's deceived himself. Exponents of a new version of reality regularly pay a heavy price. Of course, it's not ironic that FFL's sets such a high threshold for acceptance. If he is an MSAE grad, he's had thousands of hours of exposure to MMYs discourses. IMHO he's contributing to creation of new knowledge. I'm not drawn to it, but may he be given room to try to 'splain it as he sees it. -Mainstream --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote: He's doing a take-off on some new agish types, right? This is a joke, right? No, it's not a joke. From what I've heard, it's a very messed up cult trip where the guy controls people by telling them, Divine Mother says..., even to the point of people going into debt to support him financially. I watched some of the video, and I'm creeped out by it. There's a sucker born every minute. These creepy gurus are laughing all the way to the bank and man are they getting off on the adulation, big time. Anyone want to go crash the party? It could be a riot. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 wrote: From TMFree, apparently a graduate of MSAE who's got his own little thing going. Thoughts anyone? http://youtu.be/T1V_JD9rODk
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re- John M Knapp - Johnny Profane + TV reviews
I was only there once for the fist block of my sidhis course - Bevan and John Cowhig, TM Sidhi administrators I can't remember the year - it was in the winter and there had just been a big snow/ice storm a few days before - lots of pipes had frozen and supposedly one well pump had been knocked out by lightning - it was one of those snow storms that had thunder and lightning - the staff place 50 gallon drums with water inthem so we could use buckets to dip water to fill the toilet tank to flush the toilet This was the course where when I first walked into the lobby of the facility there was the big poster of Sidha man - the one that no one else seems to remember - with a Superman looking guy replete with blue and red uniform and a big yellow S on his chest (for Sidha-man) and the caption at the bottom saying Be a Superman - Be a Sidhaman! From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re- John M Knapp - Johnny Profane + TV reviews Oh, yes. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Are you talking about the Livingston Manor facility? From: doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2013 12:23 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re- John M Knapp - Johnny Profane + TV reviews  I do not know if it still exists. Beautiful scenery, though the place was already a dump when I lived there in 1978, just after it was turned into a men's facility. There was one functional wing, and that was reserved for the Governors. I lived first in a vermin infested shack, through the snow, down by the lake, then later in a leaky and cold dorm room. We had electricity but no hot water, and for awhile there was no plumbing at all in the entire facility for flushing toilets (except in the functional wing) - awesome smell! The roofs leaked everywhere. There were big rats in the kitchen where all the course food was prepared. The office building was really shaky - three stories tall, and about a hundred years old at the time. I was on the printing crew, and sometimes had to manipulate a forklift with faulty brakes around the basement, careful not to knock any support beams out of place, and bring the building down on top of me. The benefits: Saw the Northern Lights many, many times, and deer also abounded on the property. I also did residence courses (4x4) every month, and rounded 2x2 the rest of the time, so it served its purpose for me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: I recall this one, rare, time when some bigwigs were coming into La Guardia airport in NYC, and I was on staff at a TM facility in the Catskills. There were a couple of limos there, should Maharishi come to visit, though he never did - Anyway, I was decked out in my khakis and got picked for driver duty, for one of the limos. We were about 2 or 3 hours out from NYC, and probably got a late start, so the director, Tim, riding in the back by himself, told me he was going to do his [meditation] program, and instructed me to drive as fast as I wanted, because, Nature will support. 85 to 90 mph, all the way in - lot's of fun!! And yet, all teachers had been told not to have someone in the car meditating since their transcending could pull the driver's awareness off the road!! This info was also given out in 3 days' checking, I think. All in all, working in the Catskills might have had some benefits and fun times. The place became a mold infested, toxic place once the roof gave way and water leaks were not repaired. I think the town officials literally sealed off sections of the buildings. Is it still there? Driving Movement vehicles was always a blast, like when I'd take this big box truck into the Bowery, or some nearly deserted warehouse in Brooklyn, to drop off copies of the Movement magazine. Could pretty much drive any which way I wanted to, running lights, double parking, as that was the local custom. Helped make up for the $5 a week I made, cash.:-) -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Carol wrote: Ha! Well, it's nice to be in the younger crowd. hehe I was a cherry picker and dish washer in The Way. :D I seldom got the higher assignments to rub really close shoulders with the higher and more spiritual leadership. But I didn't see the hypocrisy, like you did in the TMO. The hypocrisy was there in The Way, but some I didn't see because it went on behind closed doors and the times I did see what *might be an apparent* (barf) hypocrisy, I chose to rationalize it. After all, the leadership knew
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
After much thought, I think I would still recommend something other than TM for PTSD relief. TM was always marketed as the be all and end all of meditations and it is not, so with so many alternatives out there that do not carry the blemishes of Marshy, TMO and known unpleasant effects (unstressing) I prefer to see them doing something else. Also from a personal point of view, although some here say they always did TM for the extra rest, or that it made them feel better TM from 1955 to the late 70's, early 80's was always marketed as a way to achieve fullness of life - by gaining enlightenment. I no longer believe that anyone will ever gain enlightenment through practicing TM, there has never been anyone who has that I have ever heard of - those who claim to have been seem to either create their own self aggrandizing cults or become real basket cases. Those who report strong experiences of what came to, in TM speak, be called CC, GC or UC seem to have fallen out of those states after a time. Some teachers like Adyashanti and Eckhart Tolle say that no one will ever become enlightened through ANY kind of meditation since what we consider as the state of enlightenment is our natural state of being, so if the original reason to do TM is not going to happen, why run around shouting TM is good from the rooftops? From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:34 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Unstressing as I understand it is the release of stress from the physiology and mind/emotions in an amount or to such a degree that the release is uncomfortable and/or results in unpleasant and sometimes inappropriate manifestation of mental/emotional states and behavior that is detrimental to the individual. That's how the term unstressing is commonly used, but in my understanding, technically it refers to what happens during TM practice automatically. Thoughts that arise in meditation are said to be release of stress, even if they're pleasant. People with PTSD are already in the midst of such non-TM unstressing with flashbacks, intrusive thoughts and nightmares, they don’t need a technique that creates more unstressing. I agree. Let me ask you a hypothetical question, though. If TM were to be taught to PTSD sufferers by an independent group of folks trained as TM teachers but no longer loyal to the TMO, just as a mental technique without all the frills, and they had special training in how to minimize uncomfortable unstressing (reducing meditation time, etc.--down to zero, if necessary)--*and* using whatever other techniques had been shown to be helpful--would you be as adamantly opposed?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
You know what, I had not thought of it before but you are right, a lot of the markers of PTSD are indications of vata derangement - thank you for suggesting that line of treatment. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD On 01/12/2013 01:30 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: After much thought, I think I would still recommend something other than TM for PTSD relief. As would I, having done a bit of research on PTSD in the past year. The condition or syndrome known as post-traumatic stress disorder revolves around an inability to get over experiences and impressions from the past, and live in the present, as if these impressions were no longer a ruling factor. Nothing I have seen in my over-46-year-experience with TM suggests to me that it enables people to do this. To the contrary, I find that most long-term TMers are more locked into and ruled by impressions from the past than normal, everyday, non-meditators. Recent research has shown that there is a one-to-one link between people displaying neurotic behavior and their risk of developing PTSD. Neurotic behavior is defined as a type of personality behavior in which people experience high degrees of anxiety in response to everyday events, and thus tend to overreact to those ordinary events. That seems to me to be almost a definition of the long-term cultic TMer, at least in my experience. How is *cultivating* this behavioral pattern supposed to help those already victimized by it? I personally suspect that PTSD can be best treated by something that enables its sufferers to be as present in each present moment as possible, with as few trigger points reminding them of the past as possible. If TM worked as it was described in its marketing brochures, it would help to do this. But all one has to do to tell whether the marketing brochures were telling the truth or not is to watch what long-term TMers tend to *focus* on. Is it the present, or the past? I rest my case. We all get impressions from stressful situations. War and battle is particularly stressful. Back in the 1950s people called it shell shock and I had teachers with it. In yoga (i.e. TM) we call these samskaras. They need to be burned out or unstressed. They shouldn't remain in the system or only as at a distant memory. Meditation should be good at doing this and it wouldn't be limited just to TM, of course. TM has no exclusivity over dissolving stress. The best way to deal with this would be to meditate as soon as possible after the stressful event. Neurotic behavior is recognized in ayurveda as vata so some treatments for that imbalance may be useful.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Operation Wellness Tour
How bout a guy who starts the day seig heiling Marshy every day? From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 6:39 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Operation Wellness Tour Who do you find more convincing; a neurotic redneck, a narccistic Buddhist living in The Netherlands or these veterans : Overcoming PTSD: WWII fighter pilot Jerry Yellin The Wound of PTSD: Veterans Who Have Found A Way To Cope http://dlf.tv/2011/oww-tour/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
I wrote it because you asked me why I didn't like the idea of TM for PTSD folks and I told you - evidently you aren't willing to pay attention to anything I say unless I have an MD in PTSD treatment behind my name. The TMO is reason enough to stay away from TM, especially for these at risk people. It is time (but I know it ain't gonna happen) that people stop saying that TM is good, we just have to ignore or excuse the TMO and its people's behavior and energy. I am not willing to see veteran's with PTSD used as experimental subjects - IF, IF , IF TM had lived up to its hype, lived up to the claims made for it and its ancillary programs made through its questionable scientific research, I would be more than willing to see TM taught on the battlefield itself, but given the fact that TM research across the board from the early stuff to the laughable Maharishi Effect stuff, it isn't likely that TM will show itself to be efficacious for treatment of PTSD. How many years will people stop saying Oh, well, nothing's been proven yet, but let's just give it another 60 years, I know Marshy will be proven right one day. From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 4:53 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD Hey Michael, Thanks for your very thorough reply. I commend you for your efforts to come up with treatments for the PTSD, and I hope that you succeed in getting your ideas implemented. In my opinion, that is where I would focus my attention. I can't say that you come across as any kind of authority of what the efficacy of TM would be in this situation, but I would assume that whatever benefits or detriments that would result from the practice of TM for PTSD would be become apparant and based on that, the program would be continued,or expanded or curtailed or discontinued. Why not the results, or non results speak for themselves? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Bottom line, TM simply is not the best meditation for these folks with PTSD.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
Thought I would offer this for purposes of discussion. These are my own beliefs at this time: From the teachings or musings if you will of people like Eckhart Tolle and Anita Moorjani, Adyashanti one has to believe that the whole thing about enlightenment and the whole schtick that goes with it is complete made up bullshit. Some meditation teachers like to teach that enlightenment is something that is achievable in this lifetime, but in truth it is already here, covered over by egoic perception. Maharishi was particularly prone to promulgate this idea that enlightenment was something to precious and rare that needed to be pursued, to be chased, and he and teachers like him do that to be able to get more people to buy their nosturms. But evidently what we have called “enlightenment” is our natural state must by virtue of being, just by being. You don’t have to go anywhere or do anything to become this “state” of awareness or being, but just be. It must mean that meditation and seeking will never lead to the experience of enlightenment, and when most people talk about their enlightenment they are referring to a fluctuating experience of consciousness. This to me also means that the old Hindu stuff about having to spend countless lifetimes as plants, bugs, animals and so forth until you “merit” a human body is also complete made up bullshit. Why would the Infinite Magnificence, the Unlimited Love that we are choose to do that? I can’t think of a reason. Any thoughts folks?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
Like I said, the research the TMO has touted for decades is iffy at best, especially research on anything after TM, meaning the sidhis on down to the present moment, given the lack of proof that TM and TM related programs have a desirable effect, it is unlikely that TM will have a greater beneficial effect than other meditations or other modalities for PTSD veterans. Since I am unfortunately not in a position to stop TM being introduced into the population, the experiment is going ahead whether I like it or not. But in the end who do you think will be claiming TM is the very best thing for PTSD? The TMO, and its front organizations and people like David Lynch and former military men who WORK FOR THE TMO. Some of my objections do stem from objection to the TMO - It is not in my ability to discern why people think it is a good thing to teach a technique that has the effect of creating people who behave like leaders of the TMO - do you not see the link, the connection? If it did what TMO says it would do, Bevan, Tony, Neil etc etc etc would all be saints who would actually be leading society instead of CLAIMING to lead society. I have heard a number of people who have taught TM for many years speak about the numbers of their initiates who didn't even finish the 3 days checking - how about it, all you TM teachers who post here? What would you say are the numbers you taught and how many of them lasted even a year? I would really like to know if that number is over the 10% a couple of former teachers have mentioned here. The point being if TM is as fine as fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, how come so many people don't do it very long, or quit after a few years? But being that the TM for PTSD is ongoing, let's see the results. If PTSD treatment professionals embrace it across the board, I am willing to reverse my statements here on FFL - but I can tell you from having rubbed elbows with some of these veterans, if they knew the jack asses who were in charge of the TMO wore gold hats and claimed to be kings, they would throw those TM teachers out on their ears. From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD Hey Michael, I just wrote a rather lengthy reply to this, but it got eaten. I reread your (lengthy) response about why you feel that TM should not be used for the treatment of PTSD. And your realize that much of it has nothing to do with the actual treatment, but rather the fact that you do not like the TMO, it's leaders or its claims. And you offer only pure speculation on why it would not be an appropiate treatment. And finally, you seem to be saying that since I don't agree with what you wrote that I am in denial in some way. You invent this notion that I don't respect your opinion because you aren't specifically credentialled in this way. You laid out your reasons. They appear well thought out. I am sorry if I remain unconvinced. I wish you the best in putting forth you agenda for dealing with this issue. My position remains the same. Let the results speak for themselves. That appears to be the last thing you want to consider. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: I wrote it because you asked me why I didn't like the idea of TM for PTSD folks and I told you - evidently you aren't willing to pay attention to anything I say unless I have an MD in PTSD treatment behind my name. The TMO is reason enough to stay away from TM, especially for these at risk people. It is time (but I know it ain't gonna happen) that people stop saying that TM is good, we just have to ignore or excuse the TMO and its people's behavior and energy. I am not willing to see veteran's with PTSD used as experimental subjects - IF, IF , IF TM had lived up to its hype, lived up to the claims made for it and its ancillary programs made through its questionable scientific research, I would be more than willing to see TM taught on the battlefield itself, but given the fact that TM research across the board from the early stuff to the laughable Maharishi Effect stuff, it isn't likely that TM will show itself to be efficacious for treatment of PTSD. How many years will people stop saying Oh, well, nothing's been proven yet, but let's just give it another 60 years, I know Marshy will be proven right one day. From: seventhray27 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 4:53 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD  Hey Michael, Thanks for your very thorough reply. I commend you for your efforts to come up with treatments for the PTSD, and I hope that you succeed in getting your ideas implemented. In my opinion, that is where I would focus my attention. I can't say thatÂ
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
I love it! From: Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:59 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment A saw a healer, who I didn't realize was Hindu-based at the time and told me that if I didn't do my spiritual work, I'd reincarnate as a lower life form. I asked her for an example - she said cat. I said, I'm O.K. with that. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:12 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment Thought I would offer this for purposes of discussion. These are my own beliefs at this time: From the teachings or musings if you will of people like Eckhart Tolle and Anita Moorjani, Adyashanti one has to believe that the whole thing about enlightenment and the whole schtick that goes with it is complete made up bullshit. Some meditation teachers like to teach that enlightenment is something that is achievable in this lifetime, but in truth it is already here, covered over by egoic perception. Maharishi was particularly prone to promulgate this idea that enlightenment was something to precious and rare that needed to be pursued, to be chased, and he and teachers like him do that to be able to get more people to buy their nosturms. But evidently what we have called “enlightenment” is our natural state must by virtue of being, just by being. You don’t have to go anywhere or do anything to become this “state” of awareness or being, but just be. It must mean that meditation and seeking will never lead to the experience of enlightenment, and when most people talk about their enlightenment they are referring to a fluctuating experience of consciousness. This to me also means that the old Hindu stuff about having to spend countless lifetimes as plants, bugs, animals and so forth until you “merit” a human body is also complete made up bullshit. Why would the Infinite Magnificence, the Unlimited Love that we are choose to do that? I can’t think of a reason. Any thoughts folks?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment WELL STATED BUCK
Ummm, I am not sure what people you are talking about, do you mean people who think TM won't get youto enlightenment, or people like Eckhart, Adyashanti, Ramana Maharishi etc. who think no kind of meditation will lead to enlightenment? From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment WELL STATED BUCK Yes, well we know their outlook,and the view of life they mention, and which they think is the result of their own mental efforts, is the one held by the majority of people, and is the invariable fruit of pride, indolence, and ignorance. Forgive me but if I had not known it I should not have addressed this here. Their view of life is a regrettable delusion. -Buck in the Dome --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WLeed3@... wrote: Thanks for this reply Buck a host of Ur other reply's here in polite respect to YOU all here in this form! In a message dated 1/13/2013 8:25:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Buck writes: Oh you fellows just assume no paths lead toward an awakening for people nor continue on and that it is not self evident along the ways of a path. That is your experience and what poor experience. It is blasphemous rattle and argue what you are saying the way you contend it and having to denigrate the awakened you see as your opponents as you go. Yours is a sad commentary here on your selves. However, every day we are learning more about the benefits of meditation: physical and mental well-being, compassion, patience, calming, a more flexible mind, strengthened immune system, sharper memory-it;'s extraordinary. Meditation. First ecstasy, then the laundry. Git to it, -Buck in the Dome --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Thought I would offer this for purposes of discussion. These are my own beliefs at this time: From the teachings or musings if you will of people like Eckhart Tolle and Anita Moorjani, Adyashanti one has to believe that the whole thing about enlightenment and the whole schtick that goes with it is complete made up bullshit. Not necessarily. There are other explanations for the concept of a path to enlightenment that don't require us to think ill of those who proposed one. If for no other reason, humans have a tendency to need explanations or reasons for things that Just Happen. So *something* happens -- something unknown, and probably unknowable -- and someone pops into the state of attention that they have previously been told is enlightenment, or at the very least enlightenment-like. As for *HOW* it happened, or *WHY*, the most human tendency is to think, What was I doing before it happened? That must have had something to do with it happening. If I figure out what that was, I can tell others about this thing that I did and they can do it, too, and experience what I am experiencing. The trouble with this, of course, is that no thing they did had anything to do with them realizing their always- already-present enlightenment. But if they associate it with meditating just before they realized it, they might create a path based on meditation. If they flashed out shortly after thinking fondly of their teacher, they might come up with a path based on bhakti and devotion. If they realized their enlightenment while having sex, they might even come up with a path based on sex. The trouble is that there was never any path for them, and so anything they come up with won't really work for anyone else, either. Some meditation teachers like to teach that enlightenment is something that is achievable in this lifetime, but in truth it is already here, covered over by egoic perception. Maharishi was particularly prone to promulgate this idea that enlightenment was something to precious and rare that needed to be pursued, to be chased, and he and teachers like him do that to be able to get more people to buy their nosturms. This part I agree with. Once having bought into the path presented to them -- probably by *their* teacher -- they continue to sell it. When the selling starts to make them money, and puff up their egos, they sell it even harder, to perpetuate the attention feed. And to sell a path, one pretty much has to glorify the supposed goal or end point of the supposed path. But evidently what we have called enlightenment is our natural state must by virtue of being, just by being. You don't have to go anywhere or do anything to become this state� of awareness or being, but just be. While this is true, if someone had told it to you, would that have WORKED for you, to get you
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment
Thanks for your thoughts on this Barry. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 3:32 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Thought I would offer this for purposes of discussion. These are my own beliefs at this time: From the teachings or musings if you will of people like Eckhart Tolle and Anita Moorjani, Adyashanti one has to believe that the whole thing about enlightenment and the whole schtick that goes with it is complete made up bullshit. Not necessarily. There are other explanations for the concept of a path to enlightenment that don't require us to think ill of those who proposed one. If for no other reason, humans have a tendency to need explanations or reasons for things that Just Happen. So *something* happens -- something unknown, and probably unknowable -- and someone pops into the state of attention that they have previously been told is enlightenment, or at the very least enlightenment-like. As for *HOW* it happened, or *WHY*, the most human tendency is to think, What was I doing before it happened? That must have had something to do with it happening. If I figure out what that was, I can tell others about this thing that I did and they can do it, too, and experience what I am experiencing. The trouble with this, of course, is that no thing they did had anything to do with them realizing their always- already-present enlightenment. But if they associate it with meditating just before they realized it, they might create a path based on meditation. If they flashed out shortly after thinking fondly of their teacher, they might come up with a path based on bhakti and devotion. If they realized their enlightenment while having sex, they might even come up with a path based on sex. The trouble is that there was never any path for them, and so anything they come up with won't really work for anyone else, either. Some meditation teachers like to teach that enlightenment is something that is achievable in this lifetime, but in truth it is already here, covered over by egoic perception. Maharishi was particularly prone to promulgate this idea that enlightenment was something to precious and rare that needed to be pursued, to be chased, and he and teachers like him do that to be able to get more people to buy their nosturms. This part I agree with. Once having bought into the path presented to them -- probably by *their* teacher -- they continue to sell it. When the selling starts to make them money, and puff up their egos, they sell it even harder, to perpetuate the attention feed. And to sell a path, one pretty much has to glorify the supposed goal or end point of the supposed path. But evidently what we have called enlightenment is our natural state must by virtue of being, just by being. You don't have to go anywhere or do anything to become this state� of awareness or being, but just be. While this is true, if someone had told it to you, would that have WORKED for you, to get you to realize this state yourself? I doubt that it would. Whatever was preventing you from realizing it before (*NOT* MMY''s idea of stress, which I think is bullshit) is still in place, and until you drop that you can't realize the always- already-present nature of yourself. But does that make paths BAD? I don't think so. They give people *something to do*, something that they believe is leading them in a better direction. The fact that these things they're doing that they consider sadhana will probably not have much effect on their own realization may *be* a fact, but it keeps people off the streets. :-) It must mean that meditation and seeking will never lead to the experience of enlightenment, and when most people talk about their enlightenment they are referring to a fluctuating experience of consciousness. I wouldn't go so far as to say that meditation and seeking will never lead to them experiencing enlightenment. It might. On a deeper level, these things won't have caused the enlightenment, but at the same time they kept the person busy, and gave them something to pursue. This to me also means that the old Hindu stuff about having to spend countless lifetimes as plants, bugs, animals and so forth until you merit a human body is also complete made up bullshit. Why would the Infinite Magnificence, the Unlimited Love that we are choose to do that? I can't think of a reason. It's just made-up explanations that people come up with to convince themselves they know what's happening, and How The Universe Works. It's just what humans DO. Any thoughts folks? Mine are above. I'll add to them that, while based on my own personal experience I tend to agree with the no-path, enlightenment-is-always-already-present thang, I *wouldn't* have believed that if I hadn't had
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
Susan thank you for your feedback on the numbers you taught, I really am interested in knowing - Bob Roth and the TMO like to imply that 6 million have learned and are still meditating, and others have said maybe 10% of those who were taught continued - I guess the actual figure is somewhere in between. From: Susan waybac...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Like I said, the research the TMO has touted for decades is iffy at best, especially research on anything after TM, meaning the sidhis on down to the present moment, given the lack of proof that TM and TM related programs have a desirable effect, it is unlikely that TM will have a greater beneficial effect than other meditations or other modalities for PTSD veterans. Since I am unfortunately not in a position to stop TM being introduced into the population, the experiment is going ahead whether I like it or not. But in the end who do you think will be claiming TM is the very best thing for PTSD? The TMO, and its front organizations and people like David Lynch and former military men who WORK FOR THE TMO. Some of my objections do stem from objection to the TMO - It is not in my ability to discern why people think it is a good thing to teach a technique that has the effect of creating people who behave like leaders of the TMO - do you not see the link, the connection? If it did what TMO says it would do, Bevan, Tony, Neil etc etc etc would all be saints who would actually be leading society instead of CLAIMING to lead society. I have heard a number of people who have taught TM for many years speak about the numbers of their initiates who didn't even finish the 3 days checking - how about it, all you TM teachers who post here? What would you say are the numbers you taught and how many of them lasted even a year? I would really like to know if that number is over the 10% a couple of former teachers have mentioned here. Almost everyone I taught came for all 3 days of checking. I taught well over 1500 people. Don't know how many stuck with it - I think it depended on why they had started, how busy they were, and if it felt good to meditate. People we had health issues like high bp, anxiety, insomnia, were always more serious about giving TM a good long try. The point being if TM is as fine as fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, how come so many people don't do it very long, or quit after a few years? But being that the TM for PTSD is ongoing, let's see the results. If PTSD treatment professionals embrace it across the board, I am willing to reverse my statements here on FFL - but I can tell you from having rubbed elbows with some of these veterans, if they knew the jack asses who were in charge of the TMO wore gold hats and claimed to be kings, they would throw those TM teachers out on their ears. Michael, many of the same concerns that you have expressed come up when thinking about TM in schools - only you worry that parents will scream and object once they get wind of the crowns and murky finances of the organization, all of which are now so readily found on the internet. I wonder if you have read Transcendence by Norman Rosenthal, MD, the psychiatrist working with PTSD vets near Washington DC? I have not read it, and I have no idea if Rosenthal is still enamored of TM, but it might be interesting for you to get his point of view. Seems I heard he was really enthusiastic about how TM helped the vets. From: seventhray27 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD  Hey Michael, I just wrote a rather lengthy reply to this, but it got eaten. I reread your (lengthy) response about why you feel that TM should not be used for the treatment of PTSD. And your realize that much of it has nothing to do with the actual treatment, but rather the fact that you do not like the TMO, it's leaders or its claims. And you offer only pure speculation on why it would not be an appropiate treatment. And finally, you seem to be saying that since I don't agree with what you wrote that I am in denial in some way. You invent this notion that I don't respect your opinion because you aren't specifically credentialled in this way. You laid out your reasons. They appear well thought out. I am sorry if I remain unconvinced. I wish you the best in putting forth you agenda for dealing with this issue. My position remains the same. Let the results speak for themselves. That appears to be the last thing you want to consider.  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: I wrote it because you asked
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment WELL STATED BUCK
I have not noticed that the extreme narrow mindedness, prejudices and pettiness have ever fallen away from the TMO managers and leaders ever, in nearly 60 years of TM practice, I saw and experienced a ton of it at MIU from most of the people in charge from Bevan on down, but since their extreme narrow mindedness, prejudices and pettiness serve the cause of TM dom, meaning TM dominated world, I guess its ok. Holy Jack Boots, Batman! I think I just ferreted out Nabby's motivation for loving Marsh-hee and the good old TMO - he wants a Fourth Reich governed by Gold Crown Rajas and if we get one, every Gold Crown Country will be invincible!!! That gives me a great money making idea - what if the TMO came up with an ayurvedic cigarette? Call 'em Gold Crown Cigarettes. Buy a carton of Gold Crowns today, the Raja's choice, made of Maharishi Raja's Choice tobacco, the finest, most sattvic non-GMO tobacco in the world today. (All Maharishi Raja's Choice Tobacco is grown on land owned by the Shrivastava family, proud owners of the Maharishi TMO) From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:18 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment WELL STATED BUCK --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: Funny, but I think Buck and his attitudes and platitudes would keep me from ever embracing TM and its philosophies more than even the crown-wearing Rajas. No, no that's a mistake ! You should most definately start TM. In that way your extreme narrowmindedness, predjuices and pettiness might fall away. Just do it, unless you love yourself as you are today ofcourse :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution
Please tell us who this lady was who left Marshy - I wanna read some of her books, please! From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:56 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution As you can probably tell, I have fairly strong views on the problem of rape and the subjugation of women. This 'tude was largely created as a result of being good friends with a number of very strong women in the Rama trip. Rama -- whatever his failings in many areas -- was a strong proponent of women's rights. He had all of his students -- male and female -- study martial arts, and work on their careers, such that they didn't have to be the victims of anyone, whether it be an employer or a criminal. As a result, many of the women I studied with -- and often worked with and went to dojos with as well -- turned into what I'd call real feminists. They didn't whine. They didn't *blame* men. Instead they became more successful than the men, made more money than the men, and kicked more ass than the men. One of my good friends from this period worked with me down on Wall Street, and one night as she left work late, four guys decided to try to rape her. As Ahnold said so well in Predator, Bahd idea. She was a third-degree karate black belt, and sent them first to the hospital, and then to jail. Compare and contrast to women who fly off the handle and scream Misogyny over the use of a word they don't like, or over some man treating the women he encounters *the same way he treats the men he encounters*. The real feminists I knew didn't *expect* to be treated any differently than the men around them, and so they weren't. No one cut them breaks, and no one treated them any differently than they did the guys. Many of these women are now the heads of companies that still contain other women employees complaining that they're being discriminated against, women who had *exactly* the same chance to advance in those companies as my friends did. Complaining and bitching never changed anything. DOING something is what changes things. My friends took responsibility for their own careers, and their own safety, and it *worked* for them. They would be as turned off by the sari-wearing, walk-several-paces- behind-their-Raja-husbands women we see in the TMO as I am. I still remember the day when a female friend of mine in the TM movement stood up in a lecture when Maharishi asked for Good news, and informed him that she had just been granted her *second* Ph.D. Maharishi's response was, Very good. That will make you a better conversationalist for your husband. She left that lecture -- and the TMO -- immediately after hearing that. She now has three Ph.D.'s, a shitload of books and published articles under her belt, and -- still -- no husband. She never needed one. I never heard *her* bitch and whine about men and male chauvinism and misogyny, either, even though she had ample cause to do so. She put her efforts into more productive pursuits, namely, Success is the best revenge.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD
I am aware of it, and would like to read it - I am a little skeptical as he has been doing TM for years and is working with the TMO to promote it - but I am certainly willing to see what he thinks about it all. From: Susan waybac...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:09 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD Michael, I am not sure if you saw the second part of my post. Did you read the book Transcendence by Norman Rosenthal, MD who is working with vets and TM? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Susan thank you for your feedback on the numbers you taught, I really am interested in knowing - Bob Roth and the TMO like to imply that 6 million have learned and are still meditating, and others have said maybe 10% of those who were taught continued - I guess the actual figure is somewhere in between. From: Susan To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Like I said, the research the TMO has touted for decades is iffy at best, especially research on anything after TM, meaning the sidhis on down to the present moment, given the lack of proof that TM and TM related programs have a desirable effect, it is unlikely that TM will have a greater beneficial effect than other meditations or other modalities for PTSD veterans. Since I am unfortunately not in a position to stop TM being introduced into the population, the experiment is going ahead whether I like it or not. But in the end who do you think will be claiming TM is the very best thing for PTSD? The TMO, and its front organizations and people like David Lynch and former military men who WORK FOR THE TMO. Some of my objections do stem from objection to the TMO - It is not in my ability to discern why people think it is a good thing to teach a technique that has the effect of creating people who behave like leaders of the TMO - do you not see the link, the connection? If it did what TMO says it would do, Bevan, Tony, Neil etc etc etc would all be saints who would actually be leading society instead of CLAIMING to lead society. I have heard a number of people who have taught TM for many years speak about the numbers of their initiates who didn't even finish the 3 days checking - how about it, all you TM teachers who post here? What would you say are the numbers you taught and how many of them lasted even a year? I would really like to know if that number is over the 10% a couple of former teachers have mentioned here. Almost everyone I taught came for all 3 days of checking. I taught well over 1500 people. Don't know how many stuck with it - I think it depended on why they had started, how busy they were, and if it felt good to meditate. People we had health issues like high bp, anxiety, insomnia, were always more serious about giving TM a good long try. The point being if TM is as fine as fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, how come so many people don't do it very long, or quit after a few years? But being that the TM for PTSD is ongoing, let's see the results. If PTSD treatment professionals embrace it across the board, I am willing to reverse my statements here on FFL - but I can tell you from having rubbed elbows with some of these veterans, if they knew the jack asses who were in charge of the TMO wore gold hats and claimed to be kings, they would throw those TM teachers out on their ears. Michael, many of the same concerns that you have expressed come up when thinking about TM in schools - only you worry that parents will scream and object once they get wind of the crowns and murky finances of the organization, all of which are now so readily found on the internet. I wonder if you have read Transcendence by Norman Rosenthal, MD, the psychiatrist working with PTSD vets near Washington DC? I have not read it, and I have no idea if Rosenthal is still enamored of TM, but it might be interesting for you to get his point of view. Seems I heard he was really enthusiastic about how TM helped the vets. From: seventhray27 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Steve, About PTSD  Hey Michael, I just wrote a rather lengthy reply to this, but it got eaten. I reread your (lengthy) response about why you feel that TM should not be used for the treatment of PTSD. And your realize that much of it has nothing to do with the actual treatment, but rather the fact that you do not like the TMO, it's leaders or its claims. And you offerÂÂ
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution
What martial arts have you studied? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote: Barry, I think you have mentioned this before - about how Rama really encouraged women to become independent and strong. This good. And things are changing so for young girls these days at least in the West. But the fact remains that many men are indoctrinated by their culture to treat women poorly, to keep them in lower wage positions, to ignore their needs, and to pay them less for similar work. It is great that some women refuse to accept all this, but it takes lots of effort to do this, to go against the cultural norms (many of which are really subtle and go unnoticed). Women often have to work harder, put more time and energy in, and get pushy just to get equal rights in any area of life. It is tiring and not possible for some people especially if they are raising children and must put their energies there, too. I agree with everything you have said. It is not easy, and not for some types of people in particular, introverts and such. Also, some women, like men, are not all that talented, they just want fair treatment for what they do at work and in life, too. they wob't be president of a company, ever, nor should they have to push for that just to be treated fairly. I hope my point was that these women I knew were treated fairly because they refused to entertain the idea of *not* being treated fairly. Rather than dwell on the obvious -- that misogyny and discrim- ination exist -- they focused on what they could personally do to not be affected by it. True, that is not everyone's path in life, but I confess to being more impressed by those who just get all Nike on misogyny's ass and Just Do It, rather than talking about it. *Admittedly*, somebody's got to talk about it, to get it before the eyes of a dumb public so they'll become more aware of the problems. But you'll have to excuse me if I believe that a few good *examples* of women bucking the system and succeeding *anyway* possibly does more to resolve the problems than bitching about the system. So great for your women friends, and I agree success is the best remedy for the women and for society. But let's recognize that it would help and is not being whiny or demanding on the part of women if they want society and men to behave differently. It should not be a burden only on women to succeed in spite of the unfairness around them. Society should help out, too. Agreed. And I hope that it does so. At the same time, I cannot help but applaud my friends who found a way to step out from under that burden and succeed anyway, long before society got clueful enough to help them out. I'm in the peculiar position of helping to raise a four-year-old girl in this world. The other people in my extended family are in charge of teaching her genteel manners and other things, but we've all pretty much agreed that I'm going to be the one to teach her martial arts. Starting early. If I do a good enough job, she will never have to use them to defend herself in her entire life. But they'll teach her balance, in many ways. And knowing that she *could* defend herself will IMO add greatly to her self confidence and her ability to find her own way in life, safely and successfully. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: As you can probably tell, I have fairly strong views on the problem of rape and the subjugation of women. This 'tude was largely created as a result of being good friends with a number of very strong women in the Rama trip. Rama -- whatever his failings in many areas -- was a strong proponent of women's rights. He had all of his students -- male and female -- study martial arts, and work on their careers, such that they didn't have to be the victims of anyone, whether it be an employer or a criminal. As a result, many of the women I studied with -- and often worked with and went to dojos with as well -- turned into what I'd call real feminists. They didn't whine. They didn't *blame* men. Instead they became more successful than the men, made more money than the men, and kicked more ass than the men. One of my good friends from this period worked with me down on Wall Street, and one night as she left work late, four guys decided to try to rape her. As Ahnold said so well in Predator, Bahd idea. She was a third-degree karate black belt, and sent them first to the hospital, and then to jail. Compare and contrast to women who fly off the handle and scream Misogyny over the use of a word they don't like, or over some man treating the women he encounters
[FairfieldLife] Another point of view about TM for PTSD vets, students, prison inmates, etc.
Alright especially for Steve and Buck - even though Bob Roth says the TMO has a modest income let's say the Indian English newspapers got it right when they reported last summer that the Indian arm of the TMO alone is worth over 1 billion, 114 million US dollars. Now if TM and all its other programs are the royal gift and sovereign remedy for PTSD sufferers, at risk students and prison inmates (as well as everyone else in the world) why does the TMO through the David Lynch Foundation continue to beg the public to fund its efforts? Why, if TM is as royal a gift as they claim does the TMO not have a dedicated team of 200 teachers go all over this country teaching TM to these populations and anyone else who wants it and fund this teaching effort themselves? If the TMO gave each of these 200 teachers $50,000.00 per year, plus expenses the total cost of salaries would be 10 million per year. Then adding in expenses, let's say another 5 million a year. 15 million a year total costs for teaching, well I don't know how many people a teacher can initiate in one day, but let's say 7 initiations per teacher per day. Let's say that 150 teachers actually initiate and the other 50 have support roles of some kind. In one week, that would be 1,050 people per week learning TM, assuming one course per week being taught. Time off for the teacher for 2 weeks per year vacation, plus no courses on Christmas, Thanksgiving, Fourth of July and so on. Let's postulate the teachers have 6 weeks per year off for vacation and holidays. So in one year there would be 46 courses of 1,050 people initiated for a total of 48,300 people learning TM every year. In the course of 10 years, there would be an additional 483,000 TM'ers on planet earth at a cost of 150 million dollars which if the funds were taken from the Indian branch of the TMO would leave them with nearly 1 billion dollars US. The numbers of new initiates could be higher if 2 courses were taught per week or more TM teachers were paid to do it. If there was really anything to the idea that the mantra won't work unless there is dakshina or an offering of fruit, flowers and money, the initiates could each give 5 dollars as dakshina, this would fulfill the requirements of dakshina, and give the TMO teachers $241,500 per year to use as petty cash and help pay expenses. This would also mean that there would be potentially nearly half a million new sidhas each year in the US able to do group program together. If the TMO would also fund local centers and pay maybe four TM teachers per center to run things, have advanced lectures, checking and of course organize local group flying. Let's say the cost of this would equal new initiations each year, so at the end of 10 years the TMO would have paid out another 150 million dollars. This would leave the TMO with over 500 million dollars in assets (assuming the Indian TMO is funding things) and more than enough yogic flyers to tip the balance from negative energy to positive energy all over the world. If the Maharishi Effect is real, this would create world peace in 10 years for real. Now tell me why the TMO doesn't do this? My answer is several fold. One: The TMO always existed to fund Maharishi and the Shrivastava boys. Now it just goes to the Shrivastava boys. Two: The TMO has made sure for nearly 60 years that it does not pay, it gets paid. Three: Tony Nader, Bevan and all the other raja's are also clearly on the TMO payroll and want to get paid, not pay out. Three: Laying out the numbers as I have here, it is clear to me that if the Maharishi Effect is real and verifiable, and that world peace, prosperity, safety and a good life for all is dependent on large numbers of people practicing TM and TM Sidhis program, then there can only be two conclusions one can logically reach which are: Conclusion number one - the Shrivastava boys and the rajas don't give a rat's ass about the well being of the world - if they did care, and the TM and TM Sidhi Superradiance Effect is real, they should do it now. Conclusion number two - the Shrivastava boys and the rajas know damn good and well the programs they claim will bring enlightenment and world peace won't do it, so they won't fund them to be proven liars, hucksters and frauds. If they keep CLAIMING it works, they can keep getting funding for what is gonna happen - selling futures that never arrive. So have at it FFL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution
Well there you go FFL, now you know why Barry is Barry - he got a TBI from facing Chuck Norriss - thank you for tell me that - I was wondering somehow if you have studied aikido. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:50 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: What martial arts have you studied? Many, never to the black belt level, although I was a brown belt in karate and was once in a match against Chuck Norris the year he first became World Karate Champion, before he got into being a bad actor. He whupped my ass so badly I don't even want to discuss it. :-) But along the way, without really mastering any of them, I studied Judo, Karate, Aikido, Iado, and Kenjutso. I'll probably try to teach Maya a few Judo falls and throws to see if she's interested, and if so, then steer her to good kids' Judo or Aikido classes. I really *do* believe that learn- ing the martial arts improves balance and self- confidence. From: turquoiseb To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote: Barry, I think you have mentioned this before - about how Rama really encouraged women to become independent and strong. This good. And things are changing so for young girls these days at least in the West. But the fact remains that many men are indoctrinated by their culture to treat women poorly, to keep them in lower wage positions, to ignore their needs, and to pay them less for similar work. It is great that some women refuse to accept all this, but it takes lots of effort to do this, to go against the cultural norms (many of which are really subtle and go unnoticed). Women often have to work harder, put more time and energy in, and get pushy just to get equal rights in any area of life. It is tiring and not possible for some people especially if they are raising children and must put their energies there, too. I agree with everything you have said. It is not easy, and not for some types of people in particular, introverts and such. Also, some women, like men, are not all that talented, they just want fair treatment for what they do at work and in life, too. they wob't be president of a company, ever, nor should they have to push for that just to be treated fairly. I hope my point was that these women I knew were treated fairly because they refused to entertain the idea of *not* being treated fairly. Rather than dwell on the obvious -- that misogyny and discrim- ination exist -- they focused on what they could personally do to not be affected by it. True, that is not everyone's path in life, but I confess to being more impressed by those who just get all Nike on misogyny's ass and Just Do It, rather than talking about it. *Admittedly*, somebody's got to talk about it, to get it before the eyes of a dumb public so they'll become more aware of the problems. But you'll have to excuse me if I believe that a few good *examples* of women bucking the system and succeeding *anyway* possibly does more to resolve the problems than bitching about the system. So great for your women friends, and I agree success is the best remedy for the women and for society. But let's recognize that it would help and is not being whiny or demanding on the part of women if they want society and men to behave differently. It should not be a burden only on women to succeed in spite of the unfairness around them. Society should help out, too. Agreed. And I hope that it does so. At the same time, I cannot help but applaud my friends who found a way to step out from under that burden and succeed anyway, long before society got clueful enough to help them out. I'm in the peculiar position of helping to raise a four-year-old girl in this world. The other people in my extended family are in charge of teaching her genteel manners and other things, but we've all pretty much agreed that I'm going to be the one to teach her martial arts. Starting early. If I do a good enough job, she will never have to use them to defend herself in her entire life. But they'll teach her balance, in many ways. And knowing that she *could* defend herself will IMO add greatly to her self confidence and her ability to find her own way in life, safely and successfully. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: As you can probably tell, I have fairly strong views on the problem of rape and the subjugation of women. This 'tude was largely created
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment NOT SO WELL STATED BUCK
I appreciate everything everyone had to say - I was just curious as to how everyone looks at these things so I started the discussion. One or two points: I am not unhappy with my situation regarding TM and TMO and meditation in general. Having seen and experienced a whole lot of New Age stuff after leaving TM, I have also gotten to where I take most stuff with a grain of salt - I still am moved an inspired by some things like the book Dying to be Me by Anita Moorjani - her take on reality as she had her NDE is really something to look at. I do not feel I am being negative in my assessment of TM - if a man walks into a bank and sticks a gun in the tellers face and tells her to give him all the money and he gets away, it is neither negative nor judgmental to say he is a crook, robber, thief or whatever you want to call him if you don't do it with the emotional feeling of anger or judgment. You are just calling him what he was being int that moment of time. I have said before that Marshy had some amazing energy and qualities. He may have actually loved some of the women he had sex with. He may have had genuine good qualities sometimes. He was also a liar, a con artist and took money under false pretenses. His nephews did and do the same, and the TMO people when they behave like jack asses or lie and take money under false pretenses it is neither negative nor judgmental to say so. It is merely mentioning what is. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 3:07 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment NOT SO WELL STATED BUCK Buck, I think you have misinterpreted this discussion badly, though you have a decent intent. I think what Barry wrote in response to Michael Jackson was point on. In this discussion Barry was being helpful to MJ. MJ seems to me to be in a kind of negative space. I went through one of these. You can be pissed off at a spiritual movement for some time, especially if it seems to 'not be working'. Except for a few very clear souls, enlightenment is not a clean break to wisdom, it is a messy affair, with a lot of misunderstandings, grief, and rough experience. My own experience with the movement was I tended to forget why I was doing what I was doing. The intellectual environment did not encourage genuine curiosity and inquiry. Blasphemy, Buck, is a population control device from a more ignorant age, and unfortunately it still persists, even in the TMO, and you. Everyone is in the natural state all the time, but obstacles prevent its recognition. I was traveling, south to be exact, out of my home state (NY), and I had the opportunity, rather rare in my case, to visit a TM centre and see a portion of the January 12th celebrations. Tony Nader talked a bit about the natural state and that the only reason we do not experience it because of obstacles, and once removed the natural state is experienced. He was in good form, seems coming along well, and shows few of the peculiarities that infect Bevan, or Hagelin. He was charming, innocent and playful. I think Maharishi made a good choice, considering what he had to pick from. The path is a fiction, but you cannot know that for sure until awakening, particularly in a movement that glorifies the path, traditions, and significant characters associated with that path. Whatever you do before awakening is a dream, and the dream can persist partially, sometimes getting the upper hand, for some time after awakening too. If you takes MMY's TC CC GC UC BC benchmarks, these do not always apply to everyone, they are just an average - for example Krishnamurti just seemed to pop into UC early in life, as did Ekhart Tolle. Adyashanti on the other hand went through a lot of hell, basically failed at everything he tried, and then he woke up, and then went through more hell until he had a more complete awakening. The teachers that know the pitfalls one can go through have a tendency to be better guides. I think Maharishi's 'sweet speech', candy-coated, expurgated vision of reality was a big mistake, but it works well with the dreamers, but it is hard to overcome getting caught up in a religious coma. As a result, if an individual so numbed actually awakens, and it has happened, they may doubt their sanity, because an awakening is never what you expect. Everything before the UC is a complete and utter dream, but starting with UC the dream starts to unravel. MMY said GC takes on the flavour of what a person believes, so its characteristics take on the parameters of your own personal delusions and misunderstandings about the nature of reality. The real nature of awakening is just that ordinary experience is all there is. The whole shebang is on the surface, in full view, all the time. There is no deep profound knowledge beyond what is going on now. Everything is connected
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another point of view about TM for PTSD vets, students, prison inmates, etc.
If the Army and other branches do their will research one hopes they will make use of what they find - experience however shows the wheels of the government including the military grind very slowly. The Pentagon has been studying alternative healing methods since 2008 and have yet to make wide use of them. There is a woman teaching yoga here at Ft. Jackson who is trained in yoga for PTSD through the Yoga Warriors out of Boston, MA http://www.yogawarriors.com/ And they have the two programs at Ft. Hood and Ft. Bliss. From what I recall of what Dr. Jerry Wesch told me, the Ft Hood program has been running for 5 years now and the Ft. Bliss program was in existence about a year or so before the Ft Hood program. The results coming out of both programs show tremendous results, yet the army has not instituted the programs nation wide. So they know it works, but they don't expand it. You offer to challenge me to back up my statements. So challenge me on this. I will be very plain. With TM and the sidhis, either it works or it doesn't work. If it does work, and the TMO has as much money as they appear to, then it is criminal for them not to initiate a program such as I outlined in this previous post. If they have the money and can save the world, why are they not doing it. Back that up. From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 4:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another point of view about TM for PTSD vets, students, prison inmates, etc. Hey Michael, Why are you asking me this question? Why don't you ask the parties you have mentioned below. I've only said that the TM technique should be judged on whether it shows results for the treatment of PTSD, or does not show results. I presume that the military will conduct their own research and come to some conclusion about it. You delight in tying every inquiry to your set of pet peeves about the TMO. I get that by now. You claim to have a program which you feel will benefit vets suffering from PTSD, but all I've seen are rants about why TM should not be used for problem. You say you have made grant proposals that incorporate your treatment modalities for PTSD. Did you actually submit any proposals? Would you care to share them, or the broad outlines of such? If you are asking me to defend the corruption or dysfunctionality of the TMO, I will do no such thing. But I will challenge you to back up your statements, or at least try to keep the discussion centered on facts and results, not speculations and personality issues. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Alright especially for Steve and Buck - even though Bob Roth says the TMO has a modest income let's say the Indian English newspapers got it right when they reported last summer that the Indian arm of the TMO alone is worth over 1 billion, 114 million US dollars. Now if TM and all its other programs are the royal gift and sovereign remedy for PTSD sufferers, at risk students and prison inmates (as well as everyone else in the world) why does the TMO through the David Lynch Foundation continue to beg the public to fund its efforts? Why, if TM is as royal a gift as they claim does the TMO not have a dedicated team of 200 teachers go all over this country teaching TM to these populations and anyone else who wants it and fund this teaching effort themselves? If the TMO gave each of these 200 teachers $50,000.00 per year, plus expenses the total cost of salaries would be 10 million per year. Then adding in expenses, let's say another 5 million a year. 15 million a year total costs for teaching, well I don't know how many people a teacher can initiate in one day, but let's say 7 initiations per teacher per day. Let's say that 150 teachers actually initiate and the other 50 have support roles of some kind. In one week, that would be 1,050 people per week learning TM, assuming one course per week being taught. Time off for the teacher for 2 weeks per year vacation, plus no courses on Christmas, Thanksgiving, Fourth of July and so on. Let's postulate the teachers have 6 weeks per year off for vacation and holidays. So in one year there would be 46 courses of 1,050 people initiated for a total of 48,300 people learning TM every year. In the course of 10 years, there would be an additional 483,000 TM'ers on planet earth at a cost of 150 million dollars which if the funds were taken from the Indian branch of the TMO would leave them with nearly 1 billion dollars US. The numbers of new initiates could be higher if 2 courses were taught per week or more TM teachers were paid to do it. If there was really anything to the idea that the mantra won't work unless there is dakshina or an offering of fruit, flowers and money, the initiates could each give 5 dollars as dakshina
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another point of view about TM for PTSD vets, students, prison inmates, etc.
Yes we are working on the grant proposals, none of them have yet been submitted to any of the philanthropic institutions we are approaching for funding - what difference does that make anyway? And if you can't understand that having something good taught by people who are not examples of the good of that technique perhaps you should learn something about logic and critical thinking. From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:55 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another point of view about TM for PTSD vets, students, prison inmates, etc. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: You offer to challenge me to back up my statements. So challenge me on this. I will be very plain. With TM and the sidhis, either it works or it doesn't work. If it does work, and the TMO has as much money as they appear to, then it is criminal for them not to initiate a program such as I outlined in this previous post. If they have the money and can save the world, why are they not doing it. Back that up. Hey Michael, Why don't you try listening to what I said. I said TM can be judged by the results or lack of results in treating PTSD. I didn't say anything about the sidhis or whether TM produces world peace or any other claim. But you are so locked into your mindset that evidently you are unable to examine this one application without bringing in all your other peeves. That's fine, but it doesn't factor into whether TM helps PTSD or not and it doesn't pertain to the point I was bringing up. As for me, personally, I got results. I got results on the practical level and the spiritual level. And as for backing up claims, it was you that said you were working on grant proposals. Do you understand that? Those were your words, your claim. I asked how that was going and if you actually submitted any proposals. I guess you haven't. I guess that was just something to give you cover as you launch your usual rant.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kumbh Mela Streams
Now you know you are gonna upset Nabby and company by making such statements - and you know the Marshy family prefers Bentlys From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 6:42 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kumbh Mela Streams So let me get this straight. The Maharishi Effect is real, but 100,000,000 praying sadhus are SO WRONG in how they meditate and pray that there is no discernible effect on world events? This is how haughty the TMO was/is, and I bought into it 100% for at least a few years of my life. Zero effect, and yet we all went out there and put up posters about how we'd figured out THE METHOD for FORCING GOD TO BE NICE TO US. And it only costs $2500. (What's the price today? Better ask Girish if he needs another Rolls.) Three Kumbh Melas ago, I was already invested in TM to the tune of having given it EVERYTHING for five years. After five years of TMO, I still thought that ALL THE PEOPLE OF INDIA WUT EVER WUZ missed the bigass secret. Unimaginable power of denial -- that's the only thing BIG about being in the TMO. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: The last Kumbh Mela was 12 years ago and is on again this week. This time I was thinking that they should have live streams of the event and apparently will be some. When they're up I'll post the links. http://www.mahakumbhfestival.com/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another point of view about TM for PTSD vets, students, prison inmates, etc.
I will suggest that you pay attention to the posts I have already made - I already told you that some of the therapists are already offering their modalities to victims of trauma of various kinds including PTSD - some of the people who have come are veterans and some are non-veterans. You are incorrect in your assumption Ok, you don't like the people who are in charge of the program I don't dislike the people who actually teach TM, it is the people like David Lynch and Bob Roth who talk up TM on all the talk shows, continuing the effort to sanitize the image of TM. It is really that I don't like the way they behave, rather than disliking the people themselves. This is also not quite correct: you feel they should be prevented from implementing the program I don't feel they should be prevented - I just wish the world could see the real TMO instead of the toothy smiling one they present to the world. I would like the veteran's organizations, school officials and people in general to see and hear the white robe gold crown wearing men who give no authority to women, talking in that nutty TM speak affectation and refusing to walk through a south facing entrance. This dose of reality in itself would cause a good many of the people thy are approaching to slam the door in their mood making faces. As to how that philosophy is working for me, not very well since I and others like me do not have the public's eye and ear the way Oprah and other TM celebrities do, nor do I own or work in a leadership capacity for ABC news like George Stephanopoulos and Soledad O'Brien, nor do I own or have any authority at the Huffington Post like whoever the hell sees to it that the Huff Post is forever putting those I love TM articles in their magazine. Were I to be in such a position, I would have a plethora of stories or articles about the seamy side of TM, and from all I have seen, experienced and heard, much of it here on FFL, when you look at the whole picture of the history of Marshy and the TMO, it is a pretty sordid tale. If the people whom Lynch and associates are courting could see interviews with people like Edg and Barry, Mark Landau, Judith Borque, Ned Wynn, Billy Clayton, Are Holen and match them up with the interviews of celebs like Oprah and others who praise TM - then they could make their own choice. That would be my preference. Until such a thing happens I still don't like frauds and liars and that includes the TMO and its founder and its current leadership and if you don't like it, tough. You act as if it is a given that TM is the BEST treatment for PTSD which it is not, and given the fact there are other meditations that can also be of benefit to vets with PTSD there is no reason to use TM given its baggage. In closing it would be useful to remember that whether PTSD folks meditate or not, there are other more useful in the moment and more necessary modalities that have to be used in a PTSD treatment program for best results, much more important that TM or any other meditation. You can't just use TM or any meditation and expect it to magically dissolve all the markers of PTSD. From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another point of view about TM for PTSD vets, students, prison inmates, etc. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Yes we are working on the grant proposals, none of them have yet been submitted to any of the philanthropic institutions we are approaching for funding - what difference does that make anyway? You expressed an intent to help those suffering from PTSD. I was wondering what progress you had made toward that end. And if you can't understand that having something good taught by people who are not examples of the good of that technique perhaps you should learn something about logic and critical thinking. Ok, you don't like the people who are in charge of the program and so you feel they should be prevented from implementing the program. How's that philosophy working for you? I really have a problem with my banking representative at US Bank. I feel she is unresponsive and arrogant. Do you think I should begin a campaign to have her fired, or should I just find a different bank? (and so I did. find a different bank) From: seventhray27 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:55 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another point of view about TM for PTSD vets, students, prison inmates, etc. Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: You offer to challenge me to back up my statements. So challenge me on this. I will be very plain. With TM and the sidhis, either it works or it doesn't work. If it does work, and the TMO has as much money
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another point of view about TM for PTSD vets, students, prison inmates, etc.
Not batty - its merely irritating From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 10:45 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another point of view about TM for PTSD vets, students, prison inmates, etc. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: You act as if it is a given that TM is the BEST treatment for PTSD which it is not, and given the fact there are other meditations that can also be of benefit to vets with PTSD there is no reason to use TM given its baggage. Honestly, it must be driving you absolutely batty that TM is getting this kind of play. It is no wonder that you have made this exposing of TM such a priority in your life. Do you lie awake at night, thinking, what can I do to make more people aware of this fraud that is TM? It sort of sounds that way. Well, keep banging your drum and maybe you will get the results you are looking for. Or, partner with the parties you've mentioned before and keep working on getting your own treatments implemented. But it looks like we are withdrawing from the conflicts which are causing the cases of PTSD, so maybe the whole thing is winding down anyway.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kumbh Mela Streams
We are joking dummy, it was never meant to be taken seriously From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kumbh Mela Streams From: Duveyoung To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 6:42 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kumbh Mela Streams And it only costs $2500. (What's the price today? Better ask Girish if he needs another Rolls.) Last time I saw Girish in a car he was sitting in a President. Maharishi never had Rolls or Bently either. Why this silly campaign to try to convince everybody about this nonsense ?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another point of view about TM for PTSD vets, students, prison inmates, etc.
Wait a minute, I thought I was an Apostate Non-Meditator!! I vote that MUM secede from the TMO and put Bevan out to pasture, take the fences down from around the pundits compound so they can go get a Coca-cola (or Co-cola as they are called around here), put Buck in charge of Dome recruitment and maybe even of the University in general and hire guards to keep Nabby out. I appreciate your message Buck. From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:51 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another point of view about TM for PTSD vets, students, prison inmates, etc. Dear MJ, I believe 7Ray27 is riding you a little too personally and too hard here. He don't live here. A lot of people here feel the same way you do about the bad behavior and actually shy away from going to the Domes because of the past poor ways of some still around. That is not uncommon here in Fairfield. Even with good people 'inside' of things there is a frustration reconciling this all. On the one hand It all has the potential to be so good but no one seems able to declare that 'we' are not that bad behavior of the past and move forward. Mostly they move forward as hostage to the past in a way hoping no one will notice the past around their nekcs and they'll get beyond it before anyone says anything. I spoke with a person, a long time movement meditator/teacher/purusha person the other day who had recently stopped going to the Dome meditation and now goes satellite places elsewhere to meditate because of these things generally. You are in fact doing a splendid job of critically and morally laying out the problems with a new voice. It is fresh because it comes from inside with an outside perspective. Yes it is a type of an indictment that makes some people uncomfortable. As people up there really do not freely dialogue about these things for fear this becomes as good a place to discuss these problems towards airing them out. People deal with it all differently, bit by bit things have got reconciled by people, and a lot of people have gone away. It is a pretty small group anymore with quite a lot of people having left. There evidently is still more work to do. Frankly from the top down there is quite a lot of a waiting game for Bevan going on for everyone. Kindly, -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: I will suggest that you pay attention to the posts I have already made - I already told you that some of the therapists are already offering their modalities to victims of trauma of various kinds including PTSD - some of the people who have come are veterans and some are non-veterans. You are incorrect in your assumption Ok, you don't like the people who are in charge of the program I don't dislike the people who actually teach TM, it is the people like David Lynch and Bob Roth who talk up TM on all the talk shows, continuing the effort to sanitize the image of TM. It is really that I don't like the way they behave, rather than disliking the people themselves. This is also not quite correct: you feel they should be prevented from implementing the program I don't feel they should be prevented - I just wish the world could see the real TMO instead of the toothy smiling one they present to the world. I would like the veteran's organizations, school officials and people in general to see and hear the white robe gold crown wearing men who give no authority to women, talking in that nutty TM speak affectation and refusing to walk through a south facing entrance. This dose of reality in itself would cause a good many of the people thy are approaching to slam the door in their mood making faces. As to how that philosophy is working for me, not very well since I and others like me do not have the public's eye and ear the way Oprah and other TM celebrities do, nor do I own or work in a leadership capacity for ABC news like George Stephanopoulos and Soledad O'Brien, nor do I own or have any authority at the Huffington Post like whoever the hell sees to it that the Huff Post is forever putting those I love TM articles in their magazine. Were I to be in such a position, I would have a plethora of stories or articles about the seamy side of TM, and from all I have seen, experienced and heard, much of it here on FFL, when you look at the whole picture of the history of Marshy and the TMO, it is a pretty sordid tale. If the people whom Lynch and associates are courting could see interviews with people like Edg and Barry, Mark Landau, Judith Borque, Ned Wynn, Billy Clayton, Are Holen and match them up with the interviews of celebs like Oprah and others who praise TM - then they could make their own choice. That would be my preference. Until such a thing happens I still don't like frauds and liars
Re: [FairfieldLife] Megan and shakti called kuNDalinii?
Now if Megan told me TM was good, I would start meditatin' like a son of a bitch - I'd go to the Domes every day if she tolt me to! From: card cardemais...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:41 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Megan and shakti called kuNDalinii? http://www.esquire.com/features/megan-fox-photos-interview-0213-4 It feels like a lot of energy coming through the top of your head — I'm going to sound like such a lunatic — and then your whole body is filled with this electric current. And you just start speaking, but you're not thinking because you have no idea what you're saying. Words are coming out of your mouth, and you can't control it. The idea is that it's a language that only God understands. It's the language that's spoken in heaven. It's called 'getting the Holy Ghost.' Read more: Megan Fox Cover Interview - Megan Fox Sexy Photos - Esquire http://www.esquire.com/features/megan-fox-photos-interview-0213-4#ixzz2I4i0jQ3a
[FairfieldLife] Marshy Water
If true, its the first time they ever gave anything away for free in the history of the TMO Ganga water reaches faithful across worldBy Mrigank Tiwari, TNN | Jan 14, 2013, 02.47 AM IST ALLAHABAD: Since before plastic containers began to carry water of the Ganga far and wide, disciples of spiritual guru Maharishi Mahesh Yogi have been reaching it as blessings from India. As far back as in 1992, members of the math (trust) have been packing Ganga jal into tamra-paatra (copper urns) of 1 to 4 liters capacity for disciples in the West in around 120 countries. Sharing details with TOI, Dr T C Pathak national spokesperson of the trust said Ganga and Vedic philosophy had always drawn the Western world towards Indian culture, so Maharishiji (Mahesh Yogi) came up with the proposal in 1992 to export Gangajal to his disciples in the West. Water of the holy river was collected simultaneously from Sangam and Uttarkashi in Uttarakhand, the originating point of holy Ganga by functionaries of the trust and later packed in tamra-kalash (copper containers) of different sizes varying from 1 litre to 4 litres and shipped across to disciples at various centres across the world in around 120 countries with the message Blessings of India to the world inscribed on the containers. The Gangajal was sent as a complimentary gift along with religious text and scriptures translated by the Guru and distributed free. The practice continued till the death of Mahesh Yogi in 2008, said Pathak.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office!
Do you see any difference between Bernie Madoff and Marshy? From: seekliberation seekliberat...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office! I predict a 20+ trillion debt after he leaves office too. But we, voters, are just as much to blame, as well as Republicans. Who was the last Republican president to balance the budget? I'm not sure...but I think it was Eisenhower. Moreover, Republican candidate Mitt Romney didn't really indicate to me, as a voter, that he had any magic plans to fix the economy. Paul Ryan, however, did propose a balanced budget.only to be ridiculed publicly by Obama. And so people voted for Obama. The idea of a budget that involves taking any benefits away is unacceptable by most people. Bottom line, Americans expect more than what the government can offer. We are so used to so many benefits that we will revolt once they are gone. It is like a stuck-up child turning 18 and experiencing shock as a result of thier discovery of how hard it really is to earn what they've been given all their lives. But if someone insists on blaming a specific political party, be my guest. Regardless of who's fault it is, people are going to discover what a hard life truly is as things get worse. I'm not sure exactly how people define greed. I know Conservatives are a scapegoat for this quality. But I personally consider greed to be any form of expectation without sacrifice to be 'greed'. And sacrifice has become a 4-letter word in our modern America. I don't see much difference between someone like Bernie Madoff and someone on welfare (excluding the mentally and physically disabled). The only difference to me is in the number of people screwed by their efforts. But the psychology and ideology are the exact same. I want 'stuff' and I don't want to sweat for it. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wrote: Ah, no big deal! And jeepers, what a great legacy he will leave behind. (How sad for America, and the world.)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy Water
Really? It cost me $3,000.00 for sidhis, plus about $1500.00 for the sidhi preps - that is a pretty good entrance fee. From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:26 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy Water Going to the Domes is free. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: If true, its the first time they ever gave anything away for free in the history of the TMO Ganga water reaches faithful across worldBy Mrigank Tiwari, TNN | Jan 14, 2013, 02.47 AM IST ALLAHABAD: Since before plastic containers began to carry water of the Ganga far and wide, disciples of spiritual guru Maharishi Mahesh Yogi have been reaching it as blessings from India. As far back as in 1992, members of the math (trust) have been packing Ganga jal into tamra-paatra (copper urns) of 1 to 4 liters capacity for disciples in the West in around 120 countries. Sharing details with TOI, Dr T C Pathak national spokesperson of the trust said Ganga and Vedic philosophy had always drawn the Western world towards Indian culture, so Maharishiji (Mahesh Yogi) came up with the proposal in 1992 to export Gangajal to his disciples in the West. Water of the holy river was collected simultaneously from Sangam and Uttarkashi in Uttarakhand, the originating point of holy Ganga by functionaries of the trust and later packed in tamra-kalash (copper containers) of different sizes varying from 1 litre to 4 litres and shipped across to disciples at various centres across the world in around 120 countries with the message Blessings of India to the world inscribed on the containers. The Gangajal was sent as a complimentary gift along with religious text and scriptures translated by the Guru and distributed free. The practice continued till the death of Mahesh Yogi in 2008, said Pathak.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Megan and shakti called kuNDalinii?
Not me, when I saw her in Transformers, I knew there was a God - I don't care what anyone else says about her - matter of fact, I think I am gonna fire up the DVD player and get the Transformer movies a-playin'! From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Megan and shakti called kuNDalinii? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Now if Megan told me TM was good, I would start meditatin' like a son of a bitch - I'd go to the Domes every day if she tolt me to! Dude, you might SO want to reconsider this. :-) http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/this-interview-with-megan-fox-is-the-worst-thing-ever-written-esquire From: card To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:41 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Megan and shakti called kuNDalinii? http://www.esquire.com/features/megan-fox-photos-interview-0213-4 It feels like a lot of energy coming through the top of your head †I'm going to sound like such a lunatic †and then your whole body is filled with this electric current. And you just start speaking, but you're not thinking because you have no idea what you're saying. Words are coming out of your mouth, and you can't control it. The idea is that it's a language that only God understands. It's the language that's spoken in heaven. It's called 'getting the Holy Ghost.' Read more: Megan Fox Cover Interview - Megan Fox Sexy Photos - Esquire http://www.esquire.com/features/megan-fox-photos-interview-0213-4#ixzz2I4i0jQ3a
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office!
Well I do see a difference - Marshy got away with it and over time was a much more successful con artist than Bernie - and Marshy never went to jail. Blindness has many flavors - religious zealotry is one of them. From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:29 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office! Yes. And if you don't, you are a fool, blinded by your own resentments. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Do you see any difference between Bernie Madoff and Marshy? From: seekliberation To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office! Â I predict a 20+ trillion debt after he leaves office too. But we, voters, are just as much to blame, as well as Republicans. Who was the last Republican president to balance the budget? I'm not sure...but I think it was Eisenhower. Moreover, Republican candidate Mitt Romney didn't really indicate to me, as a voter, that he had any magic plans to fix the economy. Paul Ryan, however, did propose a balanced budget.only to be ridiculed publicly by Obama. And so people voted for Obama. The idea of a budget that involves taking any benefits away is unacceptable by most people. Bottom line, Americans expect more than what the government can offer. We are so used to so many benefits that we will revolt once they are gone. It is like a stuck-up child turning 18 and experiencing shock as a result of thier discovery of how hard it really is to earn what they've been given all their lives. But if someone insists on blaming a specific political party, be my guest. Regardless of who's fault it is, people are going to discover what a hard life truly is as things get worse. I'm not sure exactly how people define greed. I know Conservatives are a scapegoat for this quality. But I personally consider greed to be any form of expectation without sacrifice to be 'greed'. And sacrifice has become a 4-letter word in our modern America. I don't see much difference between someone like Bernie Madoff and someone on welfare (excluding the mentally and physically disabled). The only difference to me is in the number of people screwed by their efforts. But the psychology and ideology are the exact same. I want 'stuff' and I don't want to sweat for it. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wrote: Ah, no big deal! And jeepers, what a great legacy he will leave behind. (How sad for America, and the world.)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy Water
Dunno - its got spiritual properties I reckon From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:46 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy Water --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 wrote: If true, its the first time they ever gave anything away for free in the history of the TMO Is someone supposed to drink this water?! I think it might be safer to drink ditchwater. No wonder it's free. If it's from the source of that great river, however, then I can get the same by drinking water melted from the mountains and glaciers here in British Columbia. What is this water supposed to do? Ganga water reaches faithful across world By Mrigank Tiwari, TNN | Jan 14, 2013, 02.47 AM IST ALLAHABAD: Since before plastic containers began to carry water of the Ganga far and wide, disciples of spiritual guru Maharishi Mahesh Yogi have been reaching it as blessings from India. As far back as in 1992, members of the math (trust) have been packing Ganga jal into tamra-paatra (copper urns) of 1 to 4 liters capacity for disciples in the West in around 120 countries. Sharing details with TOI, Dr T C Pathak national spokesperson of the trust said Ganga and Vedic philosophy had always drawn the Western world towards Indian culture, so Maharishiji (Mahesh Yogi) came up with the proposal in 1992 to export Gangajal to his disciples in the West. Water of the holy river was collected simultaneously from Sangam and Uttarkashi in Uttarakhand, the originating point of holy Ganga by functionaries of the trust and later packed in tamra-kalash (copper containers) of different sizes varying from 1 litre to 4 litres and shipped across to disciples at various centres across the world in around 120 countries with the message Blessings of India to the world inscribed on the containers. The Gangajal was sent as a complimentary gift along with religious text and scriptures translated by the Guru and distributed free. The practice continued till the death of Mahesh Yogi in 2008, said Pathak.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy Water
I know - just kiddin' around - although that has not always been true - as I recall there have been times when governors, sidhas had to pay, I believe it was called a Superradiance fee to do daily program in the Domes From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:34 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy Water That was the fee you paid to learn the technique. Participation in the Dome program is free. The movement covers all the expenses of running the dome: building maintenance, cleaning, heating and cooling. That's a considerable expense, and no charge is made for it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Really? It cost me $3,000.00 for sidhis, plus about $1500.00 for the sidhi preps - that is a pretty good entrance fee. From: feste37 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:26 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy Water  Going to the Domes is free. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: If true, its the first time they ever gave anything away for free in the history of the TMO Ganga water reaches faithful across worldBy Mrigank Tiwari, TNN | Jan 14, 2013, 02.47 AM IST ALLAHABAD: Since before plastic containers began to carry water of the Ganga far and wide, disciples of spiritual guru Maharishi Mahesh Yogi have been reaching it as blessings from India. As far back as in 1992, members of the math (trust) have been packing Ganga jal into tamra-paatra (copper urns) of 1 to 4 liters capacity for disciples in the West in around 120 countries. Sharing details with TOI, Dr T C Pathak national spokesperson of the trust said Ganga and Vedic philosophy had always drawn the Western world towards Indian culture, so Maharishiji (Mahesh Yogi) came up with the proposal in 1992 to export Gangajal to his disciples in the West. Water of the holy river was collected simultaneously from Sangam and Uttarkashi in Uttarakhand, the originating point of holy Ganga by functionaries of the trust and later packed in tamra-kalash (copper containers) of different sizes varying from 1 litre to 4 litres and shipped across to disciples at various centres across the world in around 120 countries with the message Blessings of India to the world inscribed on the containers. The Gangajal was sent as a complimentary gift along with religious text and scriptures translated by the Guru and distributed free. The practice continued till the death of Mahesh Yogi in 2008, said Pathak.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office!
Good analysis Barry - if one can believe the memories of Joyce Collin Smith, Maha might have been legit from the 50's till he hit the West. The following is from her obit in the Guardian - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/8317131/Joyce-Collin-Smith.html Perhaps inevitably, in the early 1960s Joyce moved on to the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who initiated her into the practice of Transcendental Meditation (TM) in his early days in the West. Feeling that she had finally found a genuine master – a Guru, she spent about eight years with the Maharishi and also served as his driver. After a while, however, she began to feel that the guru was beginning to lose his cleanness of intent. She noted that he was becoming rather ruthless in the use of his spiritual power, showing no concern when people began breaking down as a result of practising TM (she herself was once driven to the brink of suicide as a result of overindulging in the practice), demanding big fees for spiritual benefits, and discarding those followers who could not pay. It was the beginning of her disillusionment with him. The final straw was the arrival of the Beatles From: wgm4u no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 10:20 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 20+ trillion debt when Obama leaves office! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Do you see any difference between Bernie Madoff and Marshy? Yes, Madoff was a criminal possessed by Greed and MMY was a Hindu fundamentalist with a Messiah complex. (At least MMY has done some good.) For the record, I agree with BillyG's distinction here. I think his short description of Maharishi is somewhat accurate, and that -- unlike Bernie Madoff -- he was driven in his early years by a genuine desire to save the world. As the years progressed, and he got more and more attention from his followers and the press, I believe that desire shifted to save the world, as long as *I* get the credit for saving it. Towards the end of his days, I suspect that his desire shifted again to save India, get the rest of the world to pay for it, and gather as much money as I can towards that end so that after my death *I* will still get credit for it in India, the only place that matters. Unlike some, I don't believe that he set out to be a charlatan. I believe instead that -- like so many other teachers who ignored the advice of *their* teachers and began to teach before they were ready to handle the pressures of doing so, that he was taken out along the way by ego, by his own previously sublimated desires, and finally by believing his own PR, meaning that he began to believe the projections of near-godhood beamed at him by his naive Western followers and some of his Indian ones. I have a good friend who went to India, studied there for a long time, and began to teach as well, *but* making it perfectly clear in *every* talk that he gave that he was *not* enlightened, *not* a guru, and *not* anything more than an enthusiastic guy wanting to spread what he felt was uplifting knowledge. He loved India and wanted to stay there, but he finally had to leave because the Indians were having none of it. They would call him guru despite his protestations, they would show up at his door at all hours of the night seeking darshan, and they finally made his life there untenable, so he left. I feel that this is a *very* wise decision on the part of my friend, and I commend him for it. He, like me, has seen many teachers who *succumbed* to this level of attention, projected onto them by their followers, and allowed it to inflate their egos and turn them into something that they themselves would have abhorred in the early days of their teaching. My friend didn't want that to happen to him, so he beat feet. Wise man. My honest assessment of Maharishi, in one word, is naive. He didn't believe it when Guru Dev suggested that he was not ready to teach, and did it anyway. He thought he could handle it. Same with the Rama guy I studied with for a while...he very much thought that he could handle it. Neither could. Both changed a great deal over the course of their teaching careers, and not in positive ways. In other words, Michael, I'm again presenting a different way of looking at the same scenario to avoid the temptation of seeing it in completely black-and-white terms. I don't see Maharishi as an evil guy, or even one motivated entirely by money, like Bernie Madoff. I see him instead as a pretty normal guy with narcissistic tendencies, tendencies which were amplified over the years to become Class-A Narcissism. And yes, as BillyG suggests, along the way he did some good *anyway
Re: [FairfieldLife] Maharishi School of The Age of Enlightenment - Special Education class
I wish you could have heard how loud and long I laughed when I read this! And this is my 50th post, I believe - so see y'all Saturday - damn that was funny! From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 1:14 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Maharishi School of The Age of Enlightenment - Special Education class Maharishi stands at the front of the class, pointing at a bubble diagram on the blackboard, reciting, Knowledge is structured in consciousness (for the millionth time...) Bevan sits in the front row, listening attentively, sneaking cookies from inside his desk constantly. Hagelin sits up straight, beside Bevan, nose buried in a book. Curtis is two seats down by himself, by the window, meditating ceaselessly. Emily Levin sits behind him, twanging a rubber band to different sounds and humming. Barry and MJ sit in the back row, each with their eyes tightly closed, fingers in their ears, saying loudly, what's that? Mister Marshy - We Can't Hear You!! Maharishi flashes a sidelong glance to Guru Dev,who is standing nearby, witnessing the proceedings, and whispers, See what I'm dealing with?? Guru Dev nods gravely, and reminds him, True, but just remember, its not gunna last forever.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Today's my birthday
Ravi, I had posted out so couldn't wish you a happy birthday on the day itself - my wish for you is that however good your birthday was, everyday be that good for you. If I may ask, what is the black string around the wrist for? Happy Birthday one day late MJ From: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Today's my birthday On Jan 19, 2013, at 11:08 PM, emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Hope you have a good birthday, Ravioli. Your extended family looks very entertaining. When you get some time tell us how birthdays are celebrated there. Does your mom drag you to the temple? Do you perform a nine-graha puja? How many lifetimes before you no longer need a human body such a this to celebrate surfing on the ocean of prana - awake and unfettered? Thank you Empty baby for your wishes. My nephews got me cake, candles, coke and celebrated my birthday Western style :-). I got 2 new outfits from my sisters my mom. My mom is used to my irreverent ways and didn't insist on any temples - she made a half hearted attempt and after I excitedly remarked that the Gods would be happy to have my darshan abandoned it. She just tied a black string on my wrist, put some vibhuti/kumkum and oil on my head earlier this morning. Only one lifetime for me Empty. Devi sends her love, but your rebellious ways guarantee multiple lifetimes for you. Love, Ravi. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Please don't feel shy and pass along your wishes. I celebrated at 12:00 AM India time with my family. Love, Ravi
Re: [FairfieldLife] About Gandhi (Re: Light therapy with gems in Maharishi Ayurveda)
Somehow with Yahoo not performing well, I missed this post too Edg - A very telling story and I appreciate your sharing it - there are die-hards all over who still identify themselves with an enlightened man and an oh so special Movement that is saving the world - even with all the stories and blatant evidence that Maha was the most successful con artist in the 20th Century and the fact that the Movement has never delivered on a single one of its promises they still cling to the idea that its all true - this is because if they admit M was not enlightened and that TM and alll the TM money making programs are just that, designed to make money for the Movement and the Srivastavas boys, they would then have to look inside and begin to figure out who they themselves are, rather than making their personal identity a little Maharishi and a world saver. From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 7:37 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] About Gandhi (Re: Light therapy with gems in Maharishi Ayurveda) Duv, I missed this one [2009]. This is one of those eye-witness posts that ought to go in the 'Indx'. Thanks for the context. -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: Boo, Hey, I've got most of the story for you. I was running the Napa, Ca center when things got out of hand. This jyotishi, Gandhi, was giving readings in the Sacramento area and was very popular. Why? Because he was promoted as Maharishi's astrologer, and that Ghandi had been given a mission-permission FROM MAHARISHI to do this service. God-Conscious Judy Robinson was one of the marketers (working for commission?) who attested to Gandhi's status, so it all seemed valid since she was at the top of her marketing oomph then and commonly thought to be a high profile and true devotee of Maharishi. And she got some fees out of me doing her own junior version readings while we waited for a spot in Gandhi's schedule to open up. She pushed homeopathics, read your previous incarnations, sold beads, etc. Well, I went to Gandhi, paid my $60 (1973 dollars) and got his reading. He was marketing gems, and also slabs of silver with yantras on them, and other what-nots. The gems were the nine vedic gems -- something like that. And they were mounted in various settings that let the light go through them so's to get to the skin, natch. Costs were about $125 for, say, a Christian cross with the gems mounted on it, but the quality of the gems was for shit even to the naked eye, but THEY'D BEEN BLESSED BY GANDHI donchaknow. And so, many of the initiators were making this guy into their more accessible guru, and it began to stink, because Gandhi was telling folks (me for instance) that if there was a problem, then, don't bother Maharishi with it, pray to me instead. Yep, pray to him for favors. That's when I backed off the guy. It was easy cuz I was sold out to Maharishi, and, those fucking yantras were clunky, ugly, and a big chore to haul around and keep on your person. Plus, living in the center and driving a $200 car, where was I going to get the bucks to keep seeing this guy? So, tapped out, distraught by the prayer request, I was finished with the guy, but not-so for most others. The pot finally boiled over cuz new meditators were being shunted to Gandi by the initiators in the Sacramento center, and I guess Maharishi finally heard about it, and a call from Maharishi to the Sacramento Center was arranged. On the phone call, (I was told about it only) at some point Maharishi got fed up with whomever was defending Gandhi, and said, (something like) Those who would go with Gandhi can go to hell. Whatever else he said, don't know, but the bottom line was you're all fired if I hear even another titch about this fucker who's STEALING MY MONEY. It was the first time for me to have ever heard Maharishi swear, so it was a doozy for me. And, yeah, like SSRS, Andy Rymer, et al, Gandhi was a rustler grabbing the livestock. Maharishi could have done us a solid when the rustlers hit FF and started rebranding us. Should have called us in the dome and told us to tar and feather these outlaws -- something like that. But, SSRS never had an alert about him, nor did I ever hear any MUM official naming him specifically as an outlander. Pete, can you tell us how SSRS' group was politically handled in his early days in FF? I believe a few initiators left and became Gandhi's devotees, but after the call, that was it, and until Maharishi introduced the siddhis and the AV stuff, we initiators were all back to doing, get this, 20 mins twice a day and SCI courses -- just like ordinary meditators -- the shame of it, eh? Remember back then when even initiators were not openly told to do more than 20 X 2? But every initiator I knew as doing at least an hour
Re: [FairfieldLife] About Gandhi (Re: Light therapy with gems in Maharishi Ayurveda)
I have found over the years from talking to people who are really into TM, especially those I knew and still know in Fairfield, most of the really good feelings/memories of their time in TM (that they associate with TM) are actually good feelings /memories of their friends and shared experiences not necessarily connected to TM. From: Susan waybac...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 5:24 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] About Gandhi (Re: Light therapy with gems in Maharishi Ayurveda) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote: Edge you are an incredible writer, and have an interesting story to tell as well. Pulling yousrelf roots and all out of Ffld - how excruciating to lose the community and connections you had developed over all those years. You were known there. So, like any human, you looked for another, something, anything. Once we had all been thru TTC and the tight community of that experience, nothing else compared. It is so special and comforting and I think what humans are wired to have. Maybe not centered around a guru, but a culture and community that we just don't find in this current type of life. We can work really hard to build it, but it won't compare to TCC and those days in Ffld. With all due respect to both your opinion and Edg's, Susan, I think you are repeating the cult programming that we were all fed for so long. Do you not remember the times when we were told how BAD it would be if we were to stray from the 'highest path,' and the terrible, terrible thing that would happen to us if we did? Do you not remember all the stories that those still in the cult would gather around and warm their hands over, talking almost gleefully about the horrible things that had happened (mythically, and almost never in real life) to those who walked away? I do. When I walked away from the TMO, it was with a sense of *relief*, not regret. I have never had a moment's regret in the many years since. Admittedly, I did not stick around long enough to get enmeshed in the cult mindset of Fairfield, and having one's entire identity become intertwined with the group delusion and group identity, but I understand how powerful that can be, and the levels of fear that some people can develop about ever leaving that protective -- but restrictive -- womb. But it was *always* a lie, one IMO with a singular intent. That is, to keep people on the hook, and On The Program, contributing their money on a regular basis to any half-assed project paraded before them as worthy. If I may suggest it -- not wishing to be mean or anything, just telling it like it is -- if you feel that those days that you spent on TM TTC or while in the throes of True Believerism were something you can't or won't ever find anything to compare with, you just haven't been out much. The world is FULL of more wonderful experiences than those, and with a much lower pricetag, or free. The type of community thing I was talking about needing is not the TM or cult thing at all, but just the sense of belonging and being known over a long period of time and sharing cultural values with a group, again over a long time. Just psychologically, I think humans are programmed to live like this. You know, sitting around the village campfire in the evening, telling stories, knowing the same people over a lifetime (have you read Laurens Vander Post's A Story Like the Wind?). It has its down side, for sure - especially for members who are different, want to see more, just don't fit in. But for average folk, I do think this community is good for one's well-being. I might be speaking from my own needs here, since my father was transferred by his corporation several times as I was growing up. I adjusted every time but the last one (high school). The place I loved the most was the summer place we vacationed each summer since I had friends and families there over many years as I grew up. NOw I hate moving around. As I recall, you moved a lot too. Wasn't your father in the Air Force? And yet you seen to thrive in moving. So the whole TM TTC and going to ATR courses met a need in me, gave me a community. I think the belief system was secondary, but who knows. My point was that this same feeling and need is normal and that in these modern times, it is not easy or automatic to get. Some real effort and time need to be invested. For me, the TM community was a good thing on many levels. You could tease apart the aspects that were not healthy, but I think some recent research is showing that people involved in a church are healthier. Could it be the belief itself, or the belonging to a community that is the key? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Somehow
[FairfieldLife] I agree with what she says
BEFORE MY Near Death Experience, PROBABLY BECAUSE OF MY CULTURE, I used to think that the purpose of life was to attain nirvana—that is, to evolve beyond the reincarnation cycle of birth and death, striving never to come back into the physical. If I’d grown up completely immersed in Western culture, maybe I would have been trying to get to heaven. This is actually a fairly common goal, regardless of culture—to live in such a way as to secure a perfect afterlife. But after my NDE, I feel differently. Even though I know I’ll go on living beyond this plane, and I don’t fear physical death anymore, I’ve lost my desire to be anywhere but the place I am now. Interestingly, I’ve become more grounded and focused on seeing the perfection of life in this moment, rather than focusing on the other realm. This is primarily because the concept of reincarnation in its conventional form of a progression of lifetimes, running sequentially one after the other, wasn’t supported by my NDE. I realized that time doesn’t move in a linear fashion unless we’re using the filter of our physical bodies and minds. Once we’re no longer limited by our earthly senses, every moment exists simultaneously. I’ve come to think that the concept of reincarnation is really just an interpretation, a way for our intellect to make sense of all existence happening at once. We think in terms of “time passing,” but in my NDE, it felt as though time just is, and we’re moving through it. This means that not only do all points of time exist simultaneously, but also that in the other realm, we can go faster, slower, or even backward and sideways. I believe that when someone has a glimpse of what have previously been interpreted as “past lives,” they’re actually accessing parallel or simultaneous existences, because all time exists at once. And because we’re all connected, it’s possible to achieve states of consciousness where glimpses of others’ reality seep through into our present moment, entering our consciousness as though they were memories. My new perspective has made me wonder about our focus and purpose, if reincarnation and time itself don’t exist the way that so many of us were raised to believe. What if all our goals are the wrong way around? What if heaven or nirvana is actually here in physical expression, and not there in the afterlife? I SENSE THAT WE CHOOSE TO INCARNATE into a physical body in order to express love, passion, and the full range of other human emotions not available to us separately in the state of pure awareness and Oneness. What if this life on this planet is the main show, where the action is, and where we wanted to be? This reality is a playground of expression. It looks as though we aren’t here to learn or gather experiences for the afterlife. There doesn’t seem to be much purpose in that because we don’t need any of it there. Rather, we’re here to experience and evolve this physical universe and our own lives within it. I made my decision to return when I realized that life here was the most desirable state for me at this time. We don’t have to wait until we die to experience nirvana. Our true magnificence exists right now! The reason why humans are so vulnerable and fearful around this subject is because we create our ideas of the afterlife and our gods in human terms. We assign to these concepts the same physical properties and fallible values that we posses and are vulnerable to—values such as fear, retribution, judgment, and punishment. And then we project all our strength and power onto our own creations. But if all time and experience exist right now, and we’re simply moving through it as we express our magnificence in a physical world, then we have nothing to fear. We don’t have to live in anxiety about what comes next. We can recognize the energy that we’re already a part of, and we can be love in every aspect of our lives. It’s unfortunate that we keep searching outside ourselves for answers—in religion, medicine, scientific study, books, and other people. We think the truth is somewhere out there, still elusive. Yet by doing this, we’re only getting more and more lost, appearing to move away from who we truly are. The entire universe is within us. Moorjani, Anita (2012-03-01). Dying to Be Me: My Journey from Cancer, to Near Death, to True Healing
Re: [FairfieldLife] Cop Mentality / Cult Mentality
What sane individual would lie to Swiss authorities about the nature of suicides taking place on courses in Swiss hotels? I have never heard of this Turq - what is it all about? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 4:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Cop Mentality / Cult Mentality It's been a fascinating juxtaposition, watching Olivier Marchal's French TV cop drama Braquo while reading FFL. Braquo is a classic story of cop loyalty gone wrong -- a senior member of an elite police squad does something wrong (goes WAY overboard while interrogating a rapist) but then is accused of something even worse, raping the rapist. The cop is arrested, sees his entire life, pension, and reputation about to go down the drain, and commits suicide. The rest of his team vows to clear his name, and sets about doing that, and then the shit hits the fan. They step over the line, performing one fairly minor illegal act, which suddenly goes wrong and turns majorly illegal. And then it all escalates very quickly, turning the ostensible good guys into the very bad guys the rest of the police force and Internal Affairs are chasing. It's a good watch, if you like that sort of thing (I do), and as I've said before reminds me of the American series The Shield. But what I've been noticing while watching it is the all-pervasive buddy culture of gotta protect your fellow cops, which, with its intense feelings of loyalty both to one's fellow cops and the whole idea of being a cop, can quickly get out of hand. And I'm finding that it reminds me of the cult mentality we see in many organized spiritual groups. As I read the revelations of Paul Haggis and Lawrence Wright's new book on $cientology, I see the same phenomenon. The stories they tell about the outrages perpetrated by the Co$ do *not* strike me as the evil workings of psychopaths (well...maybe Hubbard's were) but the result of a gradual, step-by-step eradication of univerally-accepted ethics in the service of an idea of GROUP, and of an ideal of loyalty to that GROUP. In $cientology, of course, being founded on the inarguably paranoid ravings of L. Ron Hubbard, GROUP is everything. Anyone who criticizes one member of the GROUP criticizes the whole GROUP. And any criticism is perceived as an attack, and met with the full force that $cientologists can bring to bear on the offending critic, both legal and illegal. $cientology goons have perpetrated attempted murder and possibly actual murder in what *they* think of as an attempt to protect their religion. Their programmed loyalty to the GROUP somehow overrides any ethical values they learned earlier in life, and they become willing to lie, cheat, steal, slander, and even perpetrate acts of violence in an attempt to protect the GROUP. Of course I saw similar behavior in the TMO. What sane individual would agree to carry briefcases full of cash across international borders because their spiritual teacher or his representatives asked them to? What sane individual would lie to Swiss authorities about the nature of suicides taking place on courses in Swiss hotels? What sane individual would make up stories about TM critics and feed them to the press or to the Internet, just to smear the critics' names and thus hopefully deflect attention from the criticism itself? But all these things happened, and continue to happen to some extent, and I think it's all because of this GROUP thang. People get suckered into identifying more with the GROUP than they do with being a human being. Protecting the GROUP and the GROUP's reputation becomes more important than right action. In a very real sense, for the GROUP True Believer, protecting the GROUP *becomes* their definition of right action. But of course it's not just the cops, or $cientology, or the TMO. This same dynamic appears in almost all religions (just think of the Catholic Church and the era of the Borgia Popes), and in politics and in many corporations. I think it sucks. It makes me glad that I walked away from identification with *any* GROUP years ago, and never looked back.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
The sides are fighting for customers That is the essence of it right there. From: Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 10:56 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130120/us-meditation-fight/?utm_hp_ref=styleir=style
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
You make excellent points! From: salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 1:48 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: salyavin: I don't know of any who left the TMO to make money out of teaching, it was all to do with freedom from the excessive rules and stupidity like the Scorpionland debacle. And they are endlessly being threatened with legal action. TM must be the most fraught relaxation technique ALL the so-called independents I know do so because they want to keep the initiation-fee for themselves. Without exception. They are motivated by greed and I certainly hope they will be sued from A-Z and back unless the give what they teach a different name. Um, they already have given it a different name. It was the first thing they had to do to avoid the lawsuits... And they aren't so-called independents they *are* independents as they teach independently of the TMO, and I don't know any who didn't leave the TMO because of the way it was run. For instance, one guy left because Marshy said it was imperative to teach more people in order to save the world, and then he tripled the price - thus putting most TM teachers out of work and undermining what the whole thing is supposed to be about. Most teachers just took all the stupidness of the TMO for fear of rocking the boat but a few didn't and left to carry on what they saw as their mission in life, and if they are doing what the TMO failed to do because of off-putting high prices and high weirdness, how can any TB's actually complain?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
And we see how peaceful the world is don't we? Kinda like Geo Bush announcing the war is over From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 7:35 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: When did Maharishi (yes, that's his name, in case you forgot) say that, in the 70's ? These people have not been listening, if in fact they ever did. Already in 1980 Maharishi (yes, that's his name) said we need NO MORE MEDITATORS because the Sidha's and Governors had created World Peace. I'm quite sure the independents knew about this but it somehow didn't fit into their moneymaking and egoperpetuating schemes. Um, Nabs, David Lynch?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the same way, just under a different name From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: salyavin: I don't know of any who left the TMO to make money out of teaching, it was all to do with freedom from the excessive rules and stupidity like the Scorpionland debacle. And they are endlessly being threatened with legal action. TM must be the most fraught relaxation technique ALL the so-called independents I know do so because they want to keep the initiation-fee for themselves. Without exception. They are motivated by greed and I certainly hope they will be sued from A-Z and back unless the give what they teach a different name. Um, they already have given it a different name. It was the first thing they had to do to avoid the lawsuits... Some are using different names and stay away from using TM-research. That's fine an noone bothers about them. But some are not, and they are simply greedy. Why should people stay away from using TM research to promote the benefits of learning? As the TMO like to say the research is mostly carried out independently, the results are, like all science, in the public domain to be studied, added to or criticised in the hope of gaining greater understanding. That is what science is for. Well, this is true, especially if the research was funded by a grant of some sort. It may be that you are left to try to differentiate your technique as the original, or something like that. But as I said previously, there is the technique, and then the context in which it is taught. That context, or 7 Step Program , definitely has propietary aspects. On the other hand, your independant teacher will likely be offering a very hands on experience. On the other hand, he will likely sponge off all the concepts in the three days checking. That, in my opinion, would be infringement. If you are treating it as an advertising technique then you may get fed up when other people reference your work, or in this case other peoples work, using your technique. But if they are teaching the same thing as you you won't legally have a leg to stand on as far as the science goes because the benefits will be the same no matter who teaches it. I'm sure an independent research centre won't care whether the meditation techniques they study are official or not or whether ono-official meditation teachers reference their work to sell the same thing. I'd certainly raise my eyebrows in bemusement at all these lawsuits flying about amongst these relaxed, enlightened people
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
Yes you are right - ignorant plain old meditators and sidhas are too ignorant to make such assessments, even non-recertified TM teachers are not able to make such assessments. Only legal, recertified authentic and in good standing with Bevan, King Tony and of course the illustrious Neal Patterson and all the rajas will be able to make such assessments. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy-SWJ4G-U - video of Thom Knowles And I e-mailed one of the Vedic Meditation teachers and asked about puja - am waiting on her reply From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the same way, just under a different name In what way have you looked at it, Michael, if I may ask? The Web site isn't that informative about how it's taught. Do they do the puja? Seems to me you'd have to be a regulation TM teacher and actually take the courses to know for sure whether there were any differences, wouldn't you? From: seventhray27 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: salyavin: I don't know of any who left the TMO to make money out of teaching, it was all to do with freedom from the excessive rules and stupidity like the Scorpionland debacle. And they are endlessly being threatened with legal action. TM must be the most fraught relaxation technique ALL the so-called independents I know do so because they want to keep the initiation-fee for themselves. Without exception. They are motivated by greed and I certainly hope they will be sued from A-Z and back unless the give what they teach a different name. Um, they already have given it a different name. It was the first thing they had to do to avoid the lawsuits... Some are using different names and stay away from using TM-research. That's fine an noone bothers about them. But some are not, and they are simply greedy. Why should people stay away from using TM research to promote the benefits of learning? As the TMO like to say the research is mostly carried out independently, the results are, like all science, in the public domain to be studied, added to or criticised in the hope of gaining greater understanding. That is what science is for. Well, this is true, especially if the research was funded by a grant of some sort. It may be that you are left to try to differentiate your technique as the original, or something like that.  But as I said previously, there is the technique, and then the context in which it is taught. That context, or 7 Step Program ,  definitely has propietary aspects. On the other hand, your independant teacher will likely be offering a very hands on experience. On the other hand, he will likely sponge off all the concepts in the three days checking. That, in my opinion, would be infringement. If you are treating it as an advertising technique then you may get fed up when other people reference your work, or in this case other peoples work, using your technique. But if they are teaching the same thing as you you won't legally have a leg to stand on as far as the science goes because the benefits will be the same no matter who teaches it. I'm sure an independent research centre won't care whether the meditation techniques they study are official or not or whether ono-official meditation teachers reference their work to sell the same thing. I'd certainly raise my eyebrows in bemusement at all these lawsuits flying about amongst these relaxed, enlightened people
[FairfieldLife] Thom Knowles - Vedic Meditation
Please oh please all of you read this bio of Thom Knowles and see what you think - it is mighty interesting and should prove good fodder for all sort of views and comments! http://thomknoles.com/about-thom
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
Oh and if my earlier reply wasn't plain enough - its the same old TM-y stuff including rounding, advanced techniques and sidhis packaged under a different name and taught by what appears to be another 'I am so wise and enlightened and a maharishi guy. From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the same way, just under a different name In what way have you looked at it, Michael, if I may ask? The Web site isn't that informative about how it's taught. Do they do the puja? Seems to me you'd have to be a regulation TM teacher and actually take the courses to know for sure whether there were any differences, wouldn't you? From: seventhray27 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: salyavin: I don't know of any who left the TMO to make money out of teaching, it was all to do with freedom from the excessive rules and stupidity like the Scorpionland debacle. And they are endlessly being threatened with legal action. TM must be the most fraught relaxation technique ALL the so-called independents I know do so because they want to keep the initiation-fee for themselves. Without exception. They are motivated by greed and I certainly hope they will be sued from A-Z and back unless the give what they teach a different name. Um, they already have given it a different name. It was the first thing they had to do to avoid the lawsuits... Some are using different names and stay away from using TM-research. That's fine an noone bothers about them. But some are not, and they are simply greedy. Why should people stay away from using TM research to promote the benefits of learning? As the TMO like to say the research is mostly carried out independently, the results are, like all science, in the public domain to be studied, added to or criticised in the hope of gaining greater understanding. That is what science is for. Well, this is true, especially if the research was funded by a grant of some sort. It may be that you are left to try to differentiate your technique as the original, or something like that.  But as I said previously, there is the technique, and then the context in which it is taught. That context, or 7 Step Program ,  definitely has propietary aspects. On the other hand, your independant teacher will likely be offering a very hands on experience. On the other hand, he will likely sponge off all the concepts in the three days checking. That, in my opinion, would be infringement. If you are treating it as an advertising technique then you may get fed up when other people reference your work, or in this case other peoples work, using your technique. But if they are teaching the same thing as you you won't legally have a leg to stand on as far as the science goes because the benefits will be the same no matter who teaches it. I'm sure an independent research centre won't care whether the meditation techniques they study are official or not or whether ono-official meditation teachers reference their work to sell the same thing. I'd certainly raise my eyebrows in bemusement at all these lawsuits flying about amongst these relaxed, enlightened people
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
Beautifully put, Sal! From: salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:09 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: On the contrary, I like a bit of competition. The independents all charged much less than the TMO and perhaps it was this need to get people through the door that forced TMO to lower the price? eventually it became almost sensible and if you care about that sort of thing Of course. Competition is good, and it has that effect. Just don't infringe on others propietary trademarks or research. But I agree that it will be interesting how they sort out the case. I mean you can essentially make identical sneakers as long as you have a different brand. But to piggy back of someone elses research when you are using the same technique, just calling it something different-that would be interesting. As I keep saying, most of the research is independently conducted. Therefore, to reference it in relation to the same meditation technique isn't anything that anyone, even the TMO, could possibly get annoyed about. Even the research that the TMO paid for itself cannot be claimed as private, science never is. As long as someone is using the same technique any results will apply equally. It's the TMO that uses science as an advertising tool and it's one of the best it's got, unfortunately you can't copyright the results themselves. Much as people would want to. The only hope they've got of winning on those grounds is to prove that the techniques aren't the same. And I'm sure we all know they are. Maybe they'll be reading out mantras lists in court and how they are chosen? Can you see that happening? Not really, so it will come down to trademarks and suchlike though I suppose the TMO could claim the teachers swore to always teach within the TMO and are therefore in breach of contract. But I know one independent teacher who used the defence that it was the TMO who broke the contract by tripling the price and therefore putting him out of business. He still teaches TM but calls it transcendental vedic mumbling or something, still references research and still thinks it's going to create a better world. As I always say, it didn't work for us why do we think it's going to change the world? The more legal cases there are, the less convincing the whole thing sounds don't you think? I guess the angle is, I am teaching this age old meditation technique. It is the same technique taught by the TMO. In fact I was trained by MMY who founded the TMO. You can look at the research conducted by the TMO to see the benefits of this meditation, that is, the same meditation I teach. That's what they all say and it isn't a lie to say they were trained by the TMO. The TMO OTOH claims that independent teachers have changed the technique and you aren't getting the same thing anymore. Is that true do you think? I suspect not. The indies I know are just as devoted to Marshy as they always were and think they are doing his will by teaching as many as possible. Would they risk undermining what they see as someone's birthright by messing with the technique? I know one guy who held courses for anyone who did TM regardless of whether they were taught officially he said it was a real pleasure to have new meditators who weren't aware of the TMO politics and stupidity and didn't spend the whole course moaning about governors and how crap the whole thing was and where the money went, or being too terrified to have an opinion about anything in case they got blacklisted. So maybe the indies have done a lot of people a big favour in sparing them from movement politics? Perhaps it will hinge on whether TM was marketed by the TMO as an age old technique lost, and brought back by MMY. On the other hand, there is the technique, which may be age old, and then the course in which it is administered. And certainly that course has propietary componets. I would be inclined to come down on the side of the TMO on this basis alone. Proprietary parts of the learning course you mean? I can't think of anything you could get legal over, probably why they are taking the attack they are
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
I think Salyavin addressed all these issues better than I can - but reading the Thom Knowles bio is very revealing to me. And the whole thing really challenges the TMO to an opportunity to either come out of the closet or be honest for a change. Meaning - if all or most of the scientific research has been truly conducted by non-TM practicing independent researchers on the mantra practice we cal TM, and Knowles and his teachers teach the same mantras, taught in exactly the same way, then the research applies to Vedic meditation too. If the three days checking, puja and so forth are part of the Holy Tradition that Marshy got from his Guru Dev, then it really can't be trademarked or copyrighted. If on the other hand, it is something that M made up, then it can be copyrighted and trademarked and proves that the Big M was a liar. And so on and so forth with regards to rounding course which the Vedic meditation teachers also offer, sidhis instruction and so on - so I bet it will be interesting to see what the outcome of the legal deal will be. I have never met Thom, but from his video and his advertising materials he seems to fit the profile that I have mentioned here on FFL before - that a some of the former TM teachers who strike out on their own set themselves up as little Maharishis - Knowles in fact calls himself Maharishi - wonder if Rick will interview him on BATGAP? From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Yes you are right - ignorant plain old meditators and sidhas are too ignorant to make such assessments, even non-recertified TM teachers are not able to make such assessments. Only legal, recertified authentic and in good standing with Bevan, King Tony and of course the illustrious Neal Patterson and all the rajas will be able to make such assessments. Oh, come on, Michael, it's a perfectly reasonable question, and I asked it politely. There's no need to get snarky. Plus which, the folks who would actually be learning how to meditate from the course wouldn't even be TM practitioners. I'm a long-term practitioner of TM and the TM-Sidhis but not a TM teacher, and while I could certainly spot many types of differences, I'm not sure I'd notice subtle ones. Seems to me it's akin to the difference between, say, a first-year medical student and an experienced M.D. evaluating a patient's condition. What inspired my question was that I was wondering how the TMO would make its legal case if there were differences with regard to some of the more esoteric aspects of TM, the puja in particular, that the TMO felt were significant but that a judge would simply snort at. E.g., could there be, in the TMO's mind, some interference with the purported link to the Holy Tradition established by the puja if it wasn't performed under MMY's auspices? (Yes, I know he's dead and all. I'm talking esoteric here.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy-SWJ4G-U - video of Thom Knowles Well, I can't see anything obviously wrong with this explanation in terms of principles, but then of course I'm already very familiar with what it's describing. I do have the sense it's not presented quite as it would be in the TM (TMO) context, but I'm not really sure, nor could I say it would make any difference if it wasn't. (I'm turned off by him personally--especially the pretentiousness of his trilling the R in mantra--but that's just me. I'd find it just as annoying if a regulation TM teacher did it.) And I e-mailed one of the Vedic Meditation teachers and asked about puja - am waiting on her reply Great. From: authfriend To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the same way, just under a different name In what way have you looked at it, Michael, if I may ask? The Web site isn't that informative about how it's taught. Do they do the puja? Seems to me you'd have to be a regulation TM teacher and actually take the courses to know for sure whether there were any differences, wouldn't you?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
Looks as good as Marshys From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:22 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony My guess is that he is teaching plain old TM, exactly as it was taught to him, but calling it something different. In his bio he sounds rather full of himself, and I also think that his wife (if he has one) should tell him to get rid of the dreadful straggly beard. (If that was the best I could do for a beard, I would shave every day so that no one knew.) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Yes you are right - ignorant plain old meditators and sidhas are too ignorant to make such assessments, even non-recertified TM teachers are not able to make such assessments. Only legal, recertified authentic and in good standing with Bevan, King Tony and of course the illustrious Neal Patterson and all the rajas will be able to make such assessments. Oh, come on, Michael, it's a perfectly reasonable question, and I asked it politely. There's no need to get snarky. Plus which, the folks who would actually be learning how to meditate from the course wouldn't even be TM practitioners. I'm a long-term practitioner of TM and the TM-Sidhis but not a TM teacher, and while I could certainly spot many types of differences, I'm not sure I'd notice subtle ones. Seems to me it's akin to the difference between, say, a first-year medical student and an experienced M.D. evaluating a patient's condition. What inspired my question was that I was wondering how the TMO would make its legal case if there were differences with regard to some of the more esoteric aspects of TM, the puja in particular, that the TMO felt were significant but that a judge would simply snort at. E.g., could there be, in the TMO's mind, some interference with the purported link to the Holy Tradition established by the puja if it wasn't performed under MMY's auspices? (Yes, I know he's dead and all. I'm talking esoteric here.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy-SWJ4G-U - video of Thom Knowles Well, I can't see anything obviously wrong with this explanation in terms of principles, but then of course I'm already very familiar with what it's describing. I do have the sense it's not presented quite as it would be in the TM (TMO) context, but I'm not really sure, nor could I say it would make any difference if it wasn't. (I'm turned off by him personally--especially the pretentiousness of his trilling the R in mantra--but that's just me. I'd find it just as annoying if a regulation TM teacher did it.) And I e-mailed one of the Vedic Meditation teachers and asked about puja - am waiting on her reply Great. From: authfriend To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the same way, just under a different name In what way have you looked at it, Michael, if I may ask? The Web site isn't that informative about how it's taught. Do they do the puja? Seems to me you'd have to be a regulation TM teacher and actually take the courses to know for sure whether there were any differences, wouldn't you?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
Are you saying the non-recertified Governors wouldn't have the expertise to know??? And the only definitive way for you and Judy to be satisfied would be for a recertified governor to take the Vedic meditation course itself to be really sure and in what universe is that gonna happen - so I will re-iterate that it certainly appears that they are teaching exactly the same thing. On second thought, people who used to teach TM and now teach Vedic Meditation would be in a position to know, but unless they were recertified governors I guess it would not count for reasons I cannot fathom. I will point out, not that it is definitive proof, that Thom Knowles on his bio says point blank thatHe learned Vedic Meditation from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who became Thom’s personal mentor and his predominant spiritual and educational influence over the next two decades. He also claims to have played a key role in teaching meditation in the Philippines - how bout it? Anyone here on FFL who was part of the Philippines project remember him? From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony I agree with Judy, Michael, it is a reasonable question. Only a recertified gov would know if all of Thom's procedures, checking, etc. are the same as the TMOs. These I think should be covered by copyright if they aren't already. But I also think that the research should be considered in the public domain. Otherwise what a kafufel to sort out what was paid for by government grant and which wasn't. I also think it's a good point about maintaining the connection to the Holy Tradition. Since I'm not a gov I'm not sure how that is maintained or lost or if the latter is even possible. Anyway, Michael, I did read the info you posted about Thom. I've heard of others who have taken a similar path. I've heard positive results from such. But I'm staying with the one who brung me (-: From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 9:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Yes you are right - ignorant plain old meditators and sidhas are too ignorant to make such assessments, even non-recertified TM teachers are not able to make such assessments. Only legal, recertified authentic and in good standing with Bevan, King Tony and of course the illustrious Neal Patterson and all the rajas will be able to make such assessments. Oh, come on, Michael, it's a perfectly reasonable question, and I asked it politely. There's no need to get snarky. Plus which, the folks who would actually be learning how to meditate from the course wouldn't even be TM practitioners. I'm a long-term practitioner of TM and the TM-Sidhis but not a TM teacher, and while I could certainly spot many types of differences, I'm not sure I'd notice subtle ones. Seems to me it's akin to the difference between, say, a first-year medical student and an experienced M.D. evaluating a patient's condition. What inspired my question was that I was wondering how the TMO would make its legal case if there were differences with regard to some of the more esoteric aspects of TM, the puja in particular, that the TMO felt were significant but that a judge would simply snort at. E.g., could there be, in the TMO's mind, some interference with the purported link to the Holy Tradition established by the puja if it wasn't performed under MMY's auspices? (Yes, I know he's dead and all. I'm talking esoteric here.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy-SWJ4G-U - video of Thom Knowles Well, I can't see anything obviously wrong with this explanation in terms of principles, but then of course I'm already very familiar with what it's describing. I do have the sense it's not presented quite as it would be in the TM (TMO) context, but I'm not really sure, nor could I say it would make any difference if it wasn't. (I'm turned off by him personally--especially the pretentiousness of his trilling the R in mantra--but that's just me. I'd find it just as annoying if a regulation TM teacher did it.) And I e-mailed one of the Vedic Meditation teachers and asked about puja - am waiting on her reply Great. From: authfriend To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the same way, just under a different name
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Obama's Inauguration Speech
He wasn't scared - he took big big money from a lot of the guys who were running wild on Wall Street From: Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Obama's Inauguration Speech I absolutely loved this. And the fact that he is of Cuban descent and gay supported a couple of key points the president made as well. It was a beautiful complement to the president's speech, which I thought, did absolutely nothing for the extreme GOP agenda, and was a complete in your face kind of a speech in terms of rhetoric. On a completely separate topic, Obama should never have let the bankers get away with what they did - that, of all his decisions, is the on I have the hardest time with, but he was scared and listened to Timothy Geithner the way I look at it. From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:05 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Obama's Inauguration Speech I thought the poem was pretty good. Touched a lot of bases. One Today by Richard Blanco One sun rose on us today, kindled over our shores, peeking over the Smokies, greeting the faces of the Great Lakes, spreading a simple truth across the Great Plains, then charging across the Rockies. One light, waking up rooftops, under each one, a story told by our silent gestures moving behind windows. My face, your face, millions of faces in morning's mirrors, each one yawning to life, crescendoing into our day: pencil-yellow school buses, the rhythm of traffic lights, fruit stands: apples, limes, and oranges arrayed like rainbows begging our praise. Silver trucks heavy with oil or paper - bricks or milk, teeming over highways alongside us, on our way to clean tables, read ledgers, or save lives- to teach geometry, or ring-up groceries as my mother did for twenty years, so I could write this poem. All of us as vital as the one light we move through, the same light on blackboards with lessons for the day: equations to solve, history to question, or atoms imagined, the I have a dream we keep dreaming, or the impossible vocabulary of sorrow that won't explain the empty desks of twenty children marked absent today, and forever. Many prayers, but one light breathing color into stained glass windows, life into the faces of bronze statues, warmth onto the steps of our museums and park benches as mothers watch children slide into the day. One ground. Our ground, rooting us to every stalk of corn, every head of wheat sown by sweat and hands, hands gleaning coal or planting windmills in deserts and hilltops that keep us warm, hands digging trenches, routing pipes and cables, hands as worn as my father's cutting sugarcane so my brother and I could have books and shoes. The dust of farms and deserts, cities and plains mingled by one wind - our breath. Breathe. Hear it through the day's gorgeous din of honking cabs, buses launching down avenues, the symphony of footsteps, guitars, and screeching subways, the unexpected song bird on your clothes line. Hear: squeaky playground swings, trains whistling, or whispers across cafe tables, Hear: the doors we open for each other all day, saying: hello, shalom, buon giorno, howdy, namaste, or buenos dias in the language my mother taught me - in every language spoken into one wind carrying our lives without prejudice, as these words break from my lips. One sky: since the Appalachians and Sierras claimed their majesty, and the Mississippi and Colorado worked their way to the sea. Thank the work of our hands: weaving steel into bridges, finishing one more report for the boss on time, stitching another wound or uniform, the first brush stroke on a portrait, or the last floor on the Freedom Tower jutting into a sky that yields to our resilience. One sky, toward which we sometimes lift our eyes tired from work: some days guessing at the weather of our lives, some days giving thanks for a love that loves you back, sometimes praising a mother who knew how to give, or forgiving a father who couldn't give what you wanted. We head home: through the gloss of rain or weight of snow, or the plum blush of dusk, but always - home, always under one sky, our sky. And always one moon like a silent drum tapping on every rooftop and every window, of one country - all of us - facing the stars hope - a new constellation waiting for us to map it, waiting for us to name it - together. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog wrote: Obama delivered a beautiful, inspirational speech at his inauguration today. It had a progressive hint of FDR that made me tear up feeling plugged into national pride, hope, patriotism. American symbolism, flag, mom, small children, Gold Medal Olympians, unions, dogs and underdogs, tug at my heartstrings. Obama began
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
OK if they sent it to me I will - I just emailed one Vedic Meditation teacher - if she doesn't respond I will try to contact others - I'm interested to see if they do puja like the TM teachers From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:34 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: And I e-mailed one of the Vedic Meditation teachers and asked about puja - am waiting on her reply Great. What they SAY has no meaning, at this stage they would probably say anything that pleases. Show me in written the excact words they use and a picture of their puja-table.
[FairfieldLife] Speaking of puja
I am wondering what the deal is on puja anyway. This is what good old Tom Ball, Re-certified Governor of North Carolina says on his blog and website about TM: But doesn't the Transcendental Meditation instruction ceremony involve offerings? The TM instruction ceremony derives from and retains many elements of the traditional Vedic custom of guest reception: offering a bath, fresh garments, food, etc. — all done symbolically during puja as gestures of respect. The puja used in TM instruction recites the names of the tradition of teachers and honors them, most prominently acknowledging the latest representative of that tradition, Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Saraswati, or Guru Dev (great teacher). There is no offering to gods or any such thing. It's more like giving an apple to your teacher — very simple and natural. I heard that the TM instruction ceremony mentions names of gods? The secular-type puja performed during Transcendental Meditation instruction uses the traditional Sanskrit language of honor and respect that's indigenous to the ancient Vedic culture. Although it may sound foreign to Western ears, the formal language is used ceremoniously and not religiously. For example, in this Vedic performance, when Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Sarasvati, is metaphorically compared to a traditional deity of that culture, Brahma, the deity itself is not appealed to or acknowledged one way or another. If you say someone is Christ-like, it's a way of expressing high adoration and appreciation. It doesn't mean that you are engaged in worship or even believe in Christ. There are others like former TM teacher Bob Fickes who say the puja ceremony helps to refine the awareness of the initiator and gives the mantra its potency. He has said without the puja the mantra won't have the proper vibration or potency. Still others, specifically Raja Badgett Rogers has said that the mantra doesn't work unless there is the offering or dakshina of the fruit, flowers and money, and it is the offering, the gift, that makes the mantra work and of course the flowers and fruit are part of the puja. So to all you TM teachers or former TM teachers, what is the puja actually for of the above possibilities or is it something different altogether? Or a combo of the above?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis
What a great story! Do you remember how many quid she had to put up for the session? Was it an official Marshy Jyotish reading or was he just Marshy's fav and therefore got a lot of TM business? From: salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 4:58 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I have known some TM'ers who have been told by jyotish-s there in Fairfield that they have the yoga for enlightenment - they are even told what year enlightenment will strike - they are among the most un-enlightened people I have known. They are also told their health problems will clear up and they are among the sickest people I have known. Ha ha, I've had all that as well. My only trip to a jyotishee was when a girlfriend wanted a compatability chart done and offered to pay ( I refused to hand any cash over - which could maybe have told her something important about me) I reasoned that if she didn't know if we were suitable how the hell would Jupiter? But she went ahead and got my chart read and it was crap, I'm going to get enlightened and win loads of money and me and this girl would stay together forever yada yada. This guy was supposed to be Marshy's favourite jyotishee and it was the usual load of vague crap that could apply to anyone. Except for me winning loads of money - that's going to come true this week I'm certain. I never saw the girl again either. Bloody planets, you can't trust them From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 3:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Hey! FF-Lifers ... Wake up and clarify yer data. Tula lagna or Libra rising? Western or Jyotish charts? When I was born there were some stars a long, long way off and some planets in the same place they always are, just going round the sun, same for you and me and everyone that ever lived. But it's OK to pretend the Earth is the centre of the solar system and the stars are actually connected in some way in their constellations and that astrological houses are real and that it all means something (*anything*) to our lives depending on what time we were born. But then I've got my moon in capricorn so I'm bound to be sceptical I have my moon in Fresno and gall rising, so I guess that accounts for me, too. :-) Seriously, the reason I made my snippy phrenology comment is that THAT is how this whole discussion strikes me. Really. I bailed from the TMO *long* before Jyotish or any other form of astrology got the thumbs up from the Rish. Therefore I never invested more than a few minutes of my time in examining it as if it were a rational system. I honestly believe that -- to some extent - the degree to which people defend astrology (of any form) on this forum depends to some extent on that very *investment* I mention above. They were told it was meaningful, and so they dived into it and learned about it (as much as one *can* learn about a total pseudoscience), and the more time and energy they invested in it, the more they became defenders of astrology. In other words, it's the same phenomenon we see in TMers who still defend Maharishi. *I* spent a lot of time and energy on this, and *I* could not possibly have been wrong or deluded or taken in, so therefore it *has* to have merit. Astrology strikes me now -- and always has -- as a pseudoscience aimed at those who believe that the infinite complexity of human behavior can be explained by a simplistic system. I give humans -- and Nature -- far more credit than to be able to believe that.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis
don't the jyotish folk leave out the outer planets in their calculations? If the heavenly bodies have an influence, how can some just be ignored? From: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis Your argument here doesn't hold any water here salyavin. The calculations are the only part of astrology that are mathematical, it is geocentric - from the POV of the observer on earth. The positions of planets have precise calculations so now you have softwares which churn out the charts, as Bhairitu has commented certainly Indians didn't believe earth was the center and astronomy could have been developed to cater to astrology. There are other valid arguments against astrology - it's mystical origins and philosophical arguments against it. That it doesn't capture the essence, beauty of life - life which is a dynamic, living, in the moment - but then most philosophical ideas don't and creative pursuits such as music, poetry reflect the beauty, vulnerability of life. More arguments against - Something you yourself addressed in a subsequent post of yours - the personal subjectivity of astrologer creeping in, which of course taints everyone - including yours here where the scientific salyavin comes across as very unscientific. Arguments against the scope, validity of astrology are also equally valid. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 11:51 AM, salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Hey! FF-Lifers ... Wake up and clarify yer data. Tula lagna or Libra rising? Western or Jyotish charts? When I was born there were some stars a long, long way off and some planets in the same place they always are, just going round the sun, same for you and me and everyone that ever lived. But it's OK to pretend the Earth is the centre of the solar system and the stars are actually connected in some way in their constellations and that astrological houses are real and that it all means something (*anything*) to our lives depending on what time we were born. But then I've got my moon in capricorn so I'm bound to be sceptical So far I think only Judy has confirmed which one. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: How many Libra (Tula) rising do we have on FFL? On 06/08/2013 05:58 PM, emptybill wrote: Ravioli Shitviscrewyou - So inspiring that you can do this. It's almost like yer a real brahmana instead of a Western-sucking Injun psychophant. Western astrologers weren't so good with rahu/ketu or as they used to call 'em - north node/south node or new karma/old karma. Got to see Injun jyotish first hand 'cause I have Rahu in Aries in 7th. Wife lasted 7 years before being struck down by Kaaladeva. P.S. ... ain't no GuruDevi gonna save yer asssets from them notches on the karmic clock. Like them Buddhists say ... karma rules all - fuck God. How're them martinis comin' along? Still calling them Soma to your admirers? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Dear LGG (ji) Thank you very much. It's all self-learned, self-taught - free of cost, everything on the Internet (I'm a product of the internet era, all my philosophical pursuits online including FFL of course), nothing from actual books since 1998 - and also from the various astrology characters that were mentioned here in the past few days - the likes of Das Goravani, Sanjay Rath, PVR Narasimha Rao and many others. I don't study astrology anymore - stopped for the last 5-10 years now. Like I told Obba - if I ever need to refresh my memory I head on down to cafeastrology.com run by a lady named Annie Heese apparently. (Except she uses the wrong zodiac and wrong interpretation of nodes - she reverses it, one could read her all other interpretations and safely transfer it to the sidereal zodiac/Jyotish chart) OMG I wasn't looking to spend half of my posts on astrology, anyway I have only myself to blame and perhaps Ann for her post on Das and for accepting my impulsive, spontaneous offer :-) Anyway I have an un-influenced blemish-less Mercury in 1st in Sagittarius, so I'm always learning, curious, eager - if you have something to teach I will learn and then make fun of you. Mercury is un-aspected hence my learning is never tainted by my beliefs or subjectivity. Because Jupiter is the lord and in 12th, it's all in the areas of religion and philosophy, truth. When my Saturn dasha started in Jan 2010 I started magically talking (I was extremely introverted all my life, hesitant, unsure, nerdy, geeky till then) and
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis
Man oh man - I missed all that - by all that I mean the TM money making ploy to send shills to rounding courses to drain course participants money from their pockets whilst rounding - so much for don't make decisions when rounding - what a bunch of hood-winking bastards they were and are - and yes that includes Marshy himself, the penultimate side show barker - the P.T. Barnum of vedic vibes. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 10:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: What a great story! Do you remember how many quid she had to put up for the session? Was it an official Marshy Jyotish reading or was he just Marshy's fav and therefore got a lot of TM business? I don't remember how much it was, it only cost me a cup of tea and a straight face, but judged in terms of accurate results, very expensive indeed. But you never know I might get enlightened and win loads of money still, if I do I will doff my cap to Jupiter. We were on a big course and international were sending all sorts of people down to rip us off - sorry tempt us with vedic wonders - and it was not long after the jyotishee that the vedaland PR guy came for a visit and gave us his once in a lifetime opportunity pitch. But he was Marshy's fave astrologer and everyone on the course was excited until I started pointing out inconvenient facts like he was telling everyone the same thing. As we all have the same basic needs I got the impression his job was to tell us what we wanted to hear with a few warnings about being nicer to people etc. Which seems a good summation of how it all works anyway. But I want it to be true. I heard a quote from Marshy about astrology that I liked: Everything is set, but everything that's set can be reset Marvellous. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 4:58 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: I have known some TM'ers who have been told by jyotish-s there in Fairfield that they have the yoga for enlightenment - they are even told what year enlightenment will strike - they are among the most un-enlightened people I have known. They are also told their health problems will clear up and they are among the sickest people I have known. Ha ha, I've had all that as well. My only trip to a jyotishee was when a girlfriend wanted a compatability chart done and offered to pay ( I refused to hand any cash over - which could maybe have told her something important about me) I reasoned that if she didn't know if we were suitable how the hell would Jupiter? But she went ahead and got my chart read and it was crap, I'm going to get enlightened and win loads of money and me and this girl would stay together forever yada yada. This guy was supposed to be Marshy's favourite jyotishee and it was the usual load of vague crap that could apply to anyone. Except for me winning loads of money - that's going to come true this week I'm certain. I never saw the girl again either. Bloody planets, you can't trust them From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 3:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Hey! FF-Lifers ... Wake up and clarify yer data. Tula lagna or Libra rising? Western or Jyotish charts? When I was born there were some stars a long, long way off and some planets in the same place they always are, just going round the sun, same for you and me and everyone that ever lived. But it's OK to pretend the Earth is the centre of the solar system and the stars are actually connected in some way in their constellations and that astrological houses are real and that it all means something (*anything*) to our lives depending on what time we were born. But then I've got my moon in capricorn so I'm bound to be sceptical I have my moon in Fresno and gall rising, so I guess that accounts for me, too. :-) Seriously, the reason I made my snippy phrenology comment is that THAT is how this whole discussion strikes me. Really. I bailed from the TMO *long* before Jyotish or any other form of astrology got the thumbs up from the Rish. Therefore I never invested more than a few minutes of my time in examining it as if it were a rational system. I honestly
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis
Well he was second - I said that once before - the Ultimate Indian Con Man was Mithilesh Kumar Srivastava, better known as Natwarlal - I bet Marshy, Girish and all the rest were jealous as hell of that guy. http://www.timescrest.com/opinion/nuts-about-natwarlal-5243 From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 11:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Man oh man - I missed all that - by all that I mean the TM money making ploy to send shills to rounding courses to drain course participants money from their pockets whilst rounding - so much for don't make decisions when rounding - what a bunch of hood-winking bastards they were and are - and yes that includes Marshy himself, the penultimate side show barker - the P.T. Barnum of vedic vibes. Remember, penultimate means second to last. Everyone gets that confused because it sounds like penultimate should be the ultimate ultimate. Maybe somebody needs to change the meaning. Who's in charge of that sort of thing? From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 10:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: What a great story! Do you remember how many quid she had to put up for the session? Was it an official Marshy Jyotish reading or was he just Marshy's fav and therefore got a lot of TM business? I don't remember how much it was, it only cost me a cup of tea and a straight face, but judged in terms of accurate results, very expensive indeed. But you never know I might get enlightened and win loads of money still, if I do I will doff my cap to Jupiter. We were on a big course and international were sending all sorts of people down to rip us off - sorry tempt us with vedic wonders - and it was not long after the jyotishee that the vedaland PR guy came for a visit and gave us his once in a lifetime opportunity pitch. But he was Marshy's fave astrologer and everyone on the course was excited until I started pointing out inconvenient facts like he was telling everyone the same thing. As we all have the same basic needs I got the impression his job was to tell us what we wanted to hear with a few warnings about being nicer to people etc. Which seems a good summation of how it all works anyway. But I want it to be true. I heard a quote from Marshy about astrology that I liked: Everything is set, but everything that's set can be reset Marvellous. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 4:58 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: I have known some TM'ers who have been told by jyotish-s there in Fairfield that they have the yoga for enlightenment - they are even told what year enlightenment will strike - they are among the most un-enlightened people I have known. They are also told their health problems will clear up and they are among the sickest people I have known. Ha ha, I've had all that as well. My only trip to a jyotishee was when a girlfriend wanted a compatability chart done and offered to pay ( I refused to hand any cash over - which could maybe have told her something important about me) I reasoned that if she didn't know if we were suitable how the hell would Jupiter? But she went ahead and got my chart read and it was crap, I'm going to get enlightened and win loads of money and me and this girl would stay together forever yada yada. This guy was supposed to be Marshy's favourite jyotishee and it was the usual load of vague crap that could apply to anyone. Except for me winning loads of money - that's going to come true this week I'm certain. I never saw the girl again either. Bloody planets, you can't trust them From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 3:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ann's astrological analysis  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Hey! FF-Lifers ... Wake up and clarify yer data. Tula lagna or Libra rising? Western or Jyotish charts? When I was born there were some stars a long, long way off and some planets in the same place they always are, just going round the sun, same
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Invitation: July 7-21 Governors Assembly at MUM Fairfield
would it be okay to rub elbows with the saints Benjy Creme has vetted? From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 8:37 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Invitation: July 7-21 Governors Assembly at MUM Fairfield --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: Nabby, the truth is that the no saint policy came directly from MMY. It was his very own and clear directive all along. Indeed. But it was nowhere as rigorusly enforced as in the USA. It may be that a decision will be made to loosen up on that policy. Which would be a big mistake. Because True Believers like Nabby could get cooties from people who have been seeing saints. :-) The problem lies in that fact that the definition of Saint is rather vague, to say the least. Today any woo-woo lama could turn up in Fairfield wearing a funny hat, doing his sing-song and claim to be some sort of saint. In times like these unfortunately many would believe such nonsense. Even a simple ex-pat should understand that we would not want such a character, nor his gullible followers, in the Domes.
