[Felvtalk] belinda, can you walk folks through adding their vets
to the bemikitties database? thanks, dear! MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Dietary Supplements- Belinda
It's an aluminum binder, its to bind the phosphorus because some CRF kitties have trouble with their phosphorus getting high and if it get too high it causes real problems. When Fred's phosphorus was at 8.1 which for a healthykitty is fine but for a CRF kitty is too high, he wouldn't eat was vomiting bile and just generally didn't feel good. My vet kept telling me that number was OK but after hearing from more than one person on the CRF list that this was too high for a CRF kitty especially if they were having issues with not eating and vomiting I decided to get the binders and give them to Fred, within days he was eating better and no more vomiting. He's been getting them ever since. A CRF cat shouldn't have a phosphorus level above 5, mid 4's is perfect. Same with the potassium, Fred pees too much of his potassium out and as a consequence his potassium was in the low 3's (3.1, 3.2), which is in the normal range. But from the list I learned CRF kitties do best when they maintain a mid 4 range potassium and that is why Fred has lost all of his muscle mass, my vet insisted 3.2 was normal and OK, but Fred kept getting weaker and weaker, so I decided to start him on potassium supplements, by then he had already lost a lot of muscle mass and to this day he can't jump up on anything and I have stairs all over the house so he can get up on his bed and anywhere else he likes to go. Even while getting 1100mg of potassium his potassium went from 4.1 which it took me forever to get it to, to 3.8 so I asked my vet again to let me give it to him in the fluids and she finally agreed, he still gets 550mg orally too and in three weeks it went to 4.1 again. But all the time I was begging her to let me give it in his fluids and he was getting weaker and weaker he also developed a heart murmur and I absolutely believe the heart murmur and severe muscle loss so fast is because of his potassium being so low for so long. I love my vet but sometimes I am not forceful enough but I am getting better, I just wish it hadn't cost Fred so much ... all of this would eventually happen with CRF but it may have taken a lot longer if I would have been more forceful in trying to talk my vet into things I was sure Fred needed. I buy a lot of supplements and vitamins at http://iherb.com, they are quick with shipping and the customer service is great. They have a really good selection of things and many name brands to choose from. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Dietary Supplements- Belinda
Lora, Way back in the 1990's my Skeeter had something, he couldn't pee and I took him in just in time, I can't remember what it was called back then, he would get cyrstals, he had to take a DL Methionine pill everyday, I think he was also on special food for a while too but as long as he got his pill which he loved and would take and eat willingly he could pretty much eat anything he wanted. In fact a few years after he was on the pill, I stored them in a jar with a lid, the lid wasn't tight fitting just sat on top of the jar ... well Skeeter got in the cupboard where I kept them and ate a whole bunch of them. He vomited quite a bit and after that he wasn't so keen on them, guess he found out the hard way too much of a good thing isn't always so good, he still took them, just not quite so happily!! He was on it for years with no problems. The aluminum binder Fred gets is used by most people on the list of over 11,000 members and so far none of the kitties that I know of have ever had a problem with crystals. But I will keep that in mind because on occasion Fred acts like it may be uncomfortable to pee, he always does, buckets but I will keep that in mind if I notice he is acting uncomfortable. I give Fred the cosequin for his arthritis, can't say I have ever heard it mentioned for use with FLUTD, if I remember I'll ask my vet next time Fred goes in or I talk with her ... in fact I need to buy more of it I'm on my last 6 pills. Don't know exactly what D-Mannose is, I think it is a more natural supplement, I haven't had to use it yet but I may seriously think about since Fred does seem to be uncomfortable sometimes when peeing, I think it can go right in the food so that would be good. Guess I'll be doing some more research on that one. Anyone else use it or have more info in it?? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Dietary Supplements- Belinda
PS. I give meds to 3 of my 5 guys now and surprisingly considering the last one that I had to start on meds has never had to take anything, she is very good about it, thank goodness. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Dietary Supplements- Belinda
Belinds, Your Skeeter story is too funny! There is definitely a such thing as too much of a good thing! LOL. Ah! So Skeeter did receive a DL Methionine prescription! Perhaps I should replace my cranberry for this. However, if I do that, I lose the Vitamin C and Vitamin E as the cranberry is a multi-vitamin supplement. That means instead of the standard 4 pills ( L-lysine, C Q 10, Cranberry Fish Oil) that my kids get daily, they will now receive six (L-lysine, C Q 10, fish oil, DL Methionine, Vitamin C Vitamin E.) Is there anyway to combine these supplements i.e. DL Methionine Vitamin E, Vitamin C E, etc.? I suppose I will need to shop around for multi-vitamins. I thought Fred was on a phosphorus binders and not an aluminum binder. Unless the aluminum contains phosphorus there is no potential damage of developing Struvite crystals. Struvite crystals are only made up of magnesium, ammonium and phosphate. Cosequin (or C Q 10) is not for the use of FLUTD. My kids get it for heart health, cell growth and free radical prevention. --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote: Lora, Way back in the 1990's my Skeeter had something. He couldn't pee and I took him in just in time. I can't remember what it was called back then. He would get cyrstals and he had to take a DL Methionine pill everyday. I think he was also on special food for a while too but as long as he got his pill (which he loved and would take and eat willingly) he could pretty much eat anything he wanted. In fact, a few years after he was on the pill, I stored them in a jar with a lid, the lid wasn't tight fitting just sat on top of the jar. Well, Skeeter got in the cupboard where I kept them and ate a whole bunch of them. He vomited quite a bit and after that he wasn't so keen on them. Guess he found out the hard way too much of a good thing isn't always so good. He still took them, just not quite so happily! He was on it for years with no problems. The aluminum binder Fred gets is used by most people on the list of over 11,000 members and so far none of the kitties that I know of have ever had a problem with crystals. But I will keep that in mind because on occasion Fred acts like it may be uncomfortable to pee, he always does, buckets but I will keep that in mind if I notice he is acting uncomfortable. I give Fred the cosequin for his arthritis, can't say I have ever heard it mentioned for use with FLUTD, if I remember I'll ask my vet next time Fred goes in or I talk with her ... in fact I need to buy more of it I'm on my last 6 pills. Don't know exactly what D-Mannose is, I think it is a more natural supplement, I haven't had to use it yet but I may seriously think about since Fred does seem to be uncomfortable sometimes when peeing, I think it can go right in the food so that would be good. Guess I'll be doing some more research on that one. Anyone else use it or have more info in it?? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Dietary Supplements- Belinda
Belinda, Thanks for your reply. You are the only one who did. I sincerely appreciate it. I realize that some cats are more difficult to pill that others. Thank God I have conditioned my kids to take their meds. Granted some do resist, but they have learned that if they do not take their meds, they did not get their wet cat food. Once they realize that, they eventually warm up to the idea. They REALLY want their wet cat food; therefore, the sacrifice is worth the reward. And that is EXACTLY they way I play it off. I reward them with their wet cat food for taking their meds. I call it praise, they call it treats! However, you cannot just spontaneously start pilling a cat, especially if it is an older generic cat who has never been pilled before. You need to slowing introduce the producer to them, otherwise you will risk stressing out the cat and possibly scarring them for life. If pilling the cat becomes a frightening experience for them, they will definitely remember that and the you will most likely never be able to pill them again. I introduced my pilling method to the kids when they were very young; therefore, they have grown up with the idea of being pilled. However, for those who were permanently adopted into our multi-cat household in their later years had to slow warm up to the understanding of being pilled. For these cats, effective pilling was not an immediate over-night success. It took time and loving patience. Cats can be trained, thus the idea of the litter box, therefore, they can be trained to accept pilled medication without fear, stress or discomfort just as long as the pet-guardian realized to take the efforts in stride. Do everything on the cats terms. Never force them. If they refuse their medication, withhold the treat. Do not starve the cat as punishment for not taking their medicating. Instead, withhold their FAVORITE food item. Offer THAT when introducing the pill. They will being to socialize that particular treat with medication and will quickly realize that it is ONLY offered when medication is administered. Cats are extremely quick-minded and fast learners. Eventually they will put two and two together. After the treat method has been completely successful, the pet-guardian can do the bait and switch method with the treat. Gradually ween the cat from its favorite treat to their favorite flavor of wet cat food. Eventually, the pet-guardian will be administering the proper medication during actual meal-time instead of during treat-time. However, if the bait and switch method never successfully works out, and with some cats it won't as most generic cats hate food and/or environmental change, just simply bite the bullet and stick with the treat/med method. Use what works best for your cat. Remember you want the cat to LIKE being pilled; therefore, if the cat is happy with the reward he/she will be happy to be pilled. Belinda, regarding Fred with his potassium supplements and phosphorus binders in his food for his high phosphorus, would that not cause him to be prone to developing Struvite crystals (magnesium, ammonium, phosphate)? I did not know this about cranberries. What is D-Mannose? I have also read that a dietary supplement called D,L-methionine may be used to alter urinary pH. And a dietary supplement called Cosequin® (containing glucosamine) is advocated by some practitioners to reduce pain and inflammation in the bladders of cats with FLUTD. http://drbarchas.com/flutd Do you know anything about this? --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote: Lora, I don't have an positives left, Bailey was my last and I lost him in 2006. I do however have a furkid with HCM and one with CRF a heart murmur. I do know that taurine and CoQ-10 are good for the heart and lysine is good over all for the immune system. My cats aren't great about getting pills, so I only give them what they absolutely need. Joey get benazapril and amlodipine for his HCM. Fred gets the same for his high blood pressure and heart murmur, plus he gets potassium supplements and phosphorus binders in his food for his high phosphorus. All 5 of mine, get a vit b shots once a week too. I can get away with giving them that because that is an injection, not a pill. The only thing I probably wouldn't use is the cranberry. According to the CRF site that I read for answers when Fred is am having problems. This is not a vets site only a person who has been for many years collecting info and who has many years of experience with CRF. Not only her experiences but a CRF group with over 1200 members and another CRF group she is a member of with over 11,000 members, I am a member of both groups. This site is an accumulation of all those years and members experiences. This is a quote from that site about cranberry: *_Cranberry_* You should avoid giving cranberry or food containing cranberry to CRF cats - it is too acidic for CRF cats
Re: [Felvtalk] Dietary Supplements- Belinda
Have you looked at colostrum On Aug 11, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Lora wrote: Belinda, Thanks for your reply. You are the only one who did. I sincerely appreciate it. I realize that some cats are more difficult to pill that others. Thank God I have conditioned my kids to take their meds. Granted some do resist, but they have learned that if they do not take their meds, they did not get their wet cat food. Once they realize that, they eventually warm up to the idea. They REALLY want their wet cat food; therefore, the sacrifice is worth the reward. And that is EXACTLY they way I play it off. I reward them with their wet cat food for taking their meds. I call it praise, they call it treats! However, you cannot just spontaneously start pilling a cat, especially if it is an older generic cat who has never been pilled before. You need to slowing introduce the producer to them, otherwise you will risk stressing out the cat and possibly scarring them for life. If pilling the cat becomes a frightening experience for them, they will definitely remember that and the you will most likely never be able to pill them again. I introduced my pilling method to the kids when they were very young; therefore, they have grown up with the idea of being pilled. However, for those who were permanently adopted into our multi-cat household in their later years had to slow warm up to the understanding of being pilled. For these cats, effective pilling was not an immediate over-night success. It took time and loving patience. Cats can be trained, thus the idea of the litter box, therefore, they can be trained to accept pilled medication without fear, stress or discomfort just as long as the pet-guardian realized to take the efforts in stride. Do everything on the cats terms. Never force them. If they refuse their medication, withhold the treat. Do not starve the cat as punishment for not taking their medicating. Instead, withhold their FAVORITE food item. Offer THAT when introducing the pill. They will being to socialize that particular treat with medication and will quickly realize that it is ONLY offered when medication is administered. Cats are extremely quick-minded and fast learners. Eventually they will put two and two together. After the treat method has been completely successful, the pet- guardian can do the bait and switch method with the treat. Gradually ween the cat from its favorite treat to their favorite flavor of wet cat food. Eventually, the pet-guardian will be administering the proper medication during actual meal-time instead of during treat-time. However, if the bait and switch method never successfully works out, and with some cats it won't as most generic cats hate food and/or environmental change, just simply bite the bullet and stick with the treat/med method. Use what works best for your cat. Remember you want the cat to LIKE being pilled; therefore, if the cat is happy with the reward he/she will be happy to be pilled. Belinda, regarding Fred with his potassium supplements and phosphorus binders in his food for his high phosphorus, would that not cause him to be prone to developing Struvite crystals (magnesium, ammonium, phosphate)? I did not know this about cranberries. What is D-Mannose? I have also read that a dietary supplement called D,L-methionine may be used to alter urinary pH. And a dietary supplement called Cosequin® (containing glucosamine) is advocated by some practitioners to reduce pain and inflammation in the bladders of cats with FLUTD. http://drbarchas.com/flutd Do you know anything about this? --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote: Lora, I don't have an positives left, Bailey was my last and I lost him in 2006. I do however have a furkid with HCM and one with CRF a heart murmur. I do know that taurine and CoQ-10 are good for the heart and lysine is good over all for the immune system. My cats aren't great about getting pills, so I only give them what they absolutely need. Joey get benazapril and amlodipine for his HCM. Fred gets the same for his high blood pressure and heart murmur, plus he gets potassium supplements and phosphorus binders in his food for his high phosphorus. All 5 of mine, get a vit b shots once a week too. I can get away with giving them that because that is an injection, not a pill. The only thing I probably wouldn't use is the cranberry. According to the CRF site that I read for answers when Fred is am having problems. This is not a vets site only a person who has been for many years collecting info and who has many years of experience with CRF. Not only her experiences but a CRF group with over 1200 members and another CRF group she is a member of with over 11,000 members, I am a member of both groups. This site is an accumulation of all those years and members experiences
Re: [Felvtalk] Bloodwork (attn. Belinda)
Hi Belinda, I've been reading your posts about bloodwork, and I've learned a lot. I have a CRF cat I will start on the Nutrived. Thank you for all the valuable information. Lorrie On 07-11, Belinda Sauro wrote: Hi Amy, Petinic doesn't contain folic acid which is also needed to build new blood, Nutrived does ... most vets carry the Petinic and not the Nutrived that is why they recommend it. If you can find the Nutrived I would switch to it, I used to buy it online, I'll see if I can find it. This is the one I used to get: http://www.calvetsupply.com/product/Nutrived_B_Complex_4oz/Veterinary_Nutritional_Supplements When I need to order supplements I order a lot from them. They are a reputable company and have been around for a while: http://www.calvetsupply.com/ Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
Not sure about cosequin for cats, but it's been around for years helping horses. It's one of the most popular supplements for horses out there.? I use Recover EQ for my horses because they have other issues, but many of my horse friends have used?cosequin for years and swear by it. Kathryn -Original Message- From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:17 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda I think the cosequin is supposed to help with phosphorous or potassium or something like that. Mine are pink and white too.? I dont know what the liver values are, but I listed everything that was out of range.? Bob is eating well and?his weight?is fine, ?but he HATES getting fluids.? He will take his norvasc in a pill pocket but he hates taking the cosequin because it's too big for one of those and I have to pill him. ? I checked out the crf site Beth sent and I'm going to look at methods of giving fluids and see if I can't figure out a better way to give them that will work.? I normally can barely get 50 in him at a time, and quite frankly have given up on them until I felt like he really needed them to get by. :( t Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ??? Hi Tonya, ? Lysine as far as I know isn't going to hurt his kidney's, never heard that Cosquin helps them, Fred gets this for his arthritis too.? He gets the pink and white capsules, my vet said I could go with 1 or 2 a day depending on how Fred's arthritis seemed to be.? He currently get 1 because he gets so much stuff now already, that seems to be enough for him.? They really need to be given everyday though, they take up to 6 weeks to make a difference.? I've never seen a BUN that low if it is correct, what are his liver values like? Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN) - Urea, which is normally excreted by the kidney, is a by-product of protein metabolism. High levels of BUN may be the result of a high protein diet, dehydration, ulcers in the digestive tract, kidney disease, or blockage of the normal flow of urine (from a crystal or mucus plug, for example). Low BUN levels can result from a low protein diet or liver disease. I wouldn't worry so much about the low protein diet, my vet said she didn't get them on that until the end stages when they were a lot worse than Bob is, Fred doesn't eat that stuff and he does fine.? He eats Fancy Feast, home cooked or baby food with supplements.? He has been CRF for over 2 years now and his last blood work like I said was really good, almost normal.? Mainly you want to keep the phosphorus under 6, mid 4's if good and the potassium solidly in the mid to high 4's.? Low potassium can cause back leg muscle weakness and isn't good for the heart.? I agree that 100cc of fluid a week is not going to do much good.? If Bob is dehydrated I would give him between 50 and 100cc a day, if he isn't he doesn't need any fluids.? Fred even when his numbers are low is dehydrated and needs 100cc a day. Fred has lost pretty much all the muscle in both back legs now, he still gets around OK just can't use them to scratch or anything else.? He is starting to lose a bit of weight so I have to really keep on him to eat, he is getting lazy and if the food is not right there in front of him he will go without, so I have to remember to make sure he has food wherever he is laying. It's almost time for more blood work, kind of afraid of what it is going to say though, it was really good last time, so I hope it is still good. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.comHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.comForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
Hey Belinda, This has been lost in cyberspace several times. I'm hoping it comes through with the new server. Bob's numbers: creatnine 2.5 bun 16 phosphorus 4.5 potassium 4.1 HCT 37.9 Other numbers that were noted as high were: urea nitrogen 40 cholesterol 269 amylase 1440 we have put him on the new science diet kd canned (it has a better consistency and it is the only one out of about 4 we've tried that he will eat.) 100 mL of fluid per week. and yes, he has high blood pressure and we have him on norvasc 2.5 mg daily plus the vet has recommended cosequin for joints and said it actually helps the kidneys (i can't read the dosage it's written so small on the capsules and i can't find the box. i have a hard time getting them down him though so he doesn't take them with much regularity.) how does all of this sound to you. I need to put lysine in the wet food for sneaker's herpes. the vet said this would not hurt bob's kidneys. what do you think about that? tonya Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are his numbers, specifically his Creatinine, BUN, Phosphorus, Potassium, and his HCT, these are the important ones that tell you how well or not well he is doing? Get them from your vet, they can fax or give you a copy of his last blood work results, you paid for them they are yours. Tell me what they are and I can tell you what my vet would be doing if Fred had those numbers. Also has his blood pressure been checked, CRF cats are notorious for getting high blood pressure, this can be very dangerous and cause blindness if not caught and treated. Several cats on the CRF list have gone blind been put on amlodipine and regained some if not all of their sight. The retinas detach when the blood pressure gets too high, too high can vary for each individual cat but you really don't want the blood pressure higher than 170 or 180 at the vets. Fred's has been as high as 200 to 240 when he was having the episode that I took him in for right away, thankfully his retinas never detached but I got him in right away when his legs were twitching and he kind of looked spacey and fell over. Get the numbers and send them ... does he still get fluids? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
Tonya, is that a typo for Bob's BUN value? Just very low for a CRF kitty with a Crea of 2.6. You will want to read and bookmark Tanya's web site. www.felineCRF.org SubQ fluids are usually given to maintain adequate hydration. Weekly fluids probably don't help much on that score. Usually kitties are no longer able to maintain adequate hydration when the Crea value gets to the high 3's but each kitty is different and requires a unique treatment plan. All of Bob's other values look good. The best food for a CRF kitty is the lowest phosphorus food he'll eat. Sharyl Sissy Rocket and Daisy's babies --- On Tue, 7/15/08, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:15 AM Hey Belinda, This has been lost in cyberspace several times. I'm hoping it comes through with the new server. Bob's numbers: creatnine 2.5 bun 16 phosphorus 4.5 potassium 4.1 HCT 37.9 Other numbers that were noted as high were: urea nitrogen 40 cholesterol 269 amylase 1440 we have put him on the new science diet kd canned (it has a better consistency and it is the only one out of about 4 we've tried that he will eat.) 100 mL of fluid per week. and yes, he has high blood pressure and we have him on norvasc 2.5 mg daily plus the vet has recommended cosequin for joints and said it actually helps the kidneys (i can't read the dosage it's written so small on the capsules and i can't find the box. i have a hard time getting them down him though so he doesn't take them with much regularity.) how does all of this sound to you. I need to put lysine in the wet food for sneaker's herpes. the vet said this would not hurt bob's kidneys. what do you think about that? tonya Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are his numbers, specifically his Creatinine, BUN, Phosphorus, Potassium, and his HCT, these are the important ones that tell you how well or not well he is doing? Get them from your vet, they can fax or give you a copy of his last blood work results, you paid for them they are yours. Tell me what they are and I can tell you what my vet would be doing if Fred had those numbers. Also has his blood pressure been checked, CRF cats are notorious for getting high blood pressure, this can be very dangerous and cause blindness if not caught and treated. Several cats on the CRF list have gone blind been put on amlodipine and regained some if not all of their sight. The retinas detach when the blood pressure gets too high, too high can vary for each individual cat but you really don't want the blood pressure higher than 170 or 180 at the vets. Fred's has been as high as 200 to 240 when he was having the episode that I took him in for right away, thankfully his retinas never detached but I got him in right away when his legs were twitching and he kind of looked spacey and fell over. Get the numbers and send them ... does he still get fluids? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
Tonya -- re the cosequin, we've been giving it to our senior guy Luc for several months now -- we get the capsules and sprinkle it into his wet food. He goes for the juicy part first so we try to get the cosequin powder mostly into the juice. He sucks it right up. ;-) Diane R. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sharyl Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:35 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda Tonya, is that a typo for Bob's BUN value? Just very low for a CRF kitty with a Crea of 2.6. You will want to read and bookmark Tanya's web site. www.felineCRF.org SubQ fluids are usually given to maintain adequate hydration. Weekly fluids probably don't help much on that score. Usually kitties are no longer able to maintain adequate hydration when the Crea value gets to the high 3's but each kitty is different and requires a unique treatment plan. All of Bob's other values look good. The best food for a CRF kitty is the lowest phosphorus food he'll eat. Sharyl Sissy Rocket and Daisy's babies --- On Tue, 7/15/08, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:15 AM Hey Belinda, This has been lost in cyberspace several times. I'm hoping it comes through with the new server. Bob's numbers: creatnine 2.5 bun 16 phosphorus 4.5 potassium 4.1 HCT 37.9 Other numbers that were noted as high were: urea nitrogen 40 cholesterol 269 amylase 1440 we have put him on the new science diet kd canned (it has a better consistency and it is the only one out of about 4 we've tried that he will eat.) 100 mL of fluid per week. and yes, he has high blood pressure and we have him on norvasc 2.5 mg daily plus the vet has recommended cosequin for joints and said it actually helps the kidneys (i can't read the dosage it's written so small on the capsules and i can't find the box. i have a hard time getting them down him though so he doesn't take them with much regularity.) how does all of this sound to you. I need to put lysine in the wet food for sneaker's herpes. the vet said this would not hurt bob's kidneys. what do you think about that? tonya Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are his numbers, specifically his Creatinine, BUN, Phosphorus, Potassium, and his HCT, these are the important ones that tell you how well or not well he is doing? Get them from your vet, they can fax or give you a copy of his last blood work results, you paid for them they are yours. Tell me what they are and I can tell you what my vet would be doing if Fred had those numbers. Also has his blood pressure been checked, CRF cats are notorious for getting high blood pressure, this can be very dangerous and cause blindness if not caught and treated. Several cats on the CRF list have gone blind been put on amlodipine and regained some if not all of their sight. The retinas detach when the blood pressure gets too high, too high can vary for each individual cat but you really don't want the blood pressure higher than 170 or 180 at the vets. Fred's has been as high as 200 to 240 when he was having the episode that I took him in for right away, thankfully his retinas never detached but I got him in right away when his legs were twitching and he kind of looked spacey and fell over. Get the numbers and send them ... does he still get fluids? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. They should be read or retained only by the intended
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
Hi Tonya, Sounds like Bob is having problems very similar to what we are now going through with Will Feral. He began spraying a few weeks ago, blood has been in the urine off and on. X-ray was clear, urinalysis had no crystals, good ph, no blockage. Dx was interstitial cystitis. He did 2 weeks of Clavamox with no improvement. He is now on a glucosamine/chondroitin drug made for cats. It's called Dasuquin, it also has avacado/soybean unsaponifables added to it, probably just something to make it unique and patentable and doubly expensive. I mix 2 capsules with a tablespoon of Fancy Feast every morning and he scarfs it down. Didn't seem to be helping so the vet has added 1 more drug, Elavil (Amitriptyline) 5mg per day by pill popper. It is an anti-depressant but is also supposed to have anti-inflammatory properties. 4 days into it he still had bloody urine, we're at 1 week now, haven't seen any puddles in a couple of days, but he may just be hiding his squatting better. He's still playing fetch with his mouse and eating well. We haven't done the prescription food yet as it is difficult to feed it to just one of 5. I have decreased the amount of dry food they all get and have increased the wet. I also read some good tips somewhere (maybe I got the link here?) on getting them to drink more water. I now leave a bowl on the end table by the couch where he always tries to steal sips from my glass. They all love drinking at that spot now. I put the L-lysine into this water. Here are Will's blood values for comparison: Creatnine - 2.1(0.8-2.4) *HIGH NORMAL Bun - 35 (16-36) *HIGH NORMAL Na - 162 mmol/L (150-165) K - 4 mmol/L (3.5-5.8) Cl - 120 mmol/L (112-129) HCT - 37.4 (30-45) I'll holler if the Elavil, (or anything else) seems to work. Kind regards, Beth, Blue, Moxie. Dash, Scooter, and Will Feral ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
Hi Tonya, Lysine as far as I know isn't going to hurt his kidney's, never heard that Cosquin helps them, Fred gets this for his arthritis too. He gets the pink and white capsules, my vet said I could go with 1 or 2 a day depending on how Fred's arthritis seemed to be. He currently get 1 because he gets so much stuff now already, that seems to be enough for him. They really need to be given everyday though, they take up to 6 weeks to make a difference. I've never seen a BUN that low if it is correct, *what are his liver values like*? * Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN) - Urea, which is normally excreted by the kidney, is a by-product of protein metabolism. 1. High levels of BUN may be the result of a high protein diet, dehydration, ulcers in the digestive tract, kidney disease, or blockage of the normal flow of urine (from a crystal or mucus plug, for example). 2. Low BUN levels can result from a low protein diet or liver disease. I wouldn't worry so much about the low protein diet, my vet said she didn't get them on that until the end stages when they were a lot worse than Bob is, Fred doesn't eat that stuff and he does fine. He eats Fancy Feast, home cooked or baby food with supplements. He has been CRF for over 2 years now and his last blood work like I said was really good, almost normal. Mainly you want to keep the phosphorus under 6, mid 4's if good and the potassium solidly in the mid to high 4's. Low potassium can cause back leg muscle weakness and isn't good for the heart. I agree that 100cc of fluid a week is not going to do much good. If Bob is dehydrated I would give him between 50 and 100cc a day, if he isn't he doesn't need any fluids. Fred even when his numbers are low is dehydrated and needs 100cc a day. Fred has lost pretty much all the muscle in both back legs now, he still gets around OK just can't use them to scratch or anything else. He is starting to lose a bit of weight so I have to really keep on him to eat, he is getting lazy and if the food is not right there in front of him he will go without, so I have to remember to make sure he has food wherever he is laying. It's almost time for more blood work, kind of afraid of what it is going to say though, it was really good last time, so I hope it is still good. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
The doctor recommended 100 cc twice a week or as much as I could do it. Bob is NOT cooperative at all with the fluids. t Sharyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tonya, is that a typo for Bob's BUN value? Just very low for a CRF kitty with a Crea of 2.6. You will want to read and bookmark Tanya's web site. www.felineCRF.org SubQ fluids are usually given to maintain adequate hydration. Weekly fluids probably don't help much on that score. Usually kitties are no longer able to maintain adequate hydration when the Crea value gets to the high 3's but each kitty is different and requires a unique treatment plan. All of Bob's other values look good. The best food for a CRF kitty is the lowest phosphorus food he'll eat. Sharyl Sissy Rocket and Daisy's babies --- On Tue, 7/15/08, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:15 AM Hey Belinda, This has been lost in cyberspace several times. I'm hoping it comes through with the new server. Bob's numbers: creatnine 2.5 bun 16 phosphorus 4.5 potassium 4.1 HCT 37.9 Other numbers that were noted as high were: urea nitrogen 40 cholesterol 269 amylase 1440 we have put him on the new science diet kd canned (it has a better consistency and it is the only one out of about 4 we've tried that he will eat.) 100 mL of fluid per week. and yes, he has high blood pressure and we have him on norvasc 2.5 mg daily plus the vet has recommended cosequin for joints and said it actually helps the kidneys (i can't read the dosage it's written so small on the capsules and i can't find the box. i have a hard time getting them down him though so he doesn't take them with much regularity.) how does all of this sound to you. I need to put lysine in the wet food for sneaker's herpes. the vet said this would not hurt bob's kidneys. what do you think about that? tonya Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are his numbers, specifically his Creatinine, BUN, Phosphorus, Potassium, and his HCT, these are the important ones that tell you how well or not well he is doing? Get them from your vet, they can fax or give you a copy of his last blood work results, you paid for them they are yours. Tell me what they are and I can tell you what my vet would be doing if Fred had those numbers. Also has his blood pressure been checked, CRF cats are notorious for getting high blood pressure, this can be very dangerous and cause blindness if not caught and treated. Several cats on the CRF list have gone blind been put on amlodipine and regained some if not all of their sight. The retinas detach when the blood pressure gets too high, too high can vary for each individual cat but you really don't want the blood pressure higher than 170 or 180 at the vets. Fred's has been as high as 200 to 240 when he was having the episode that I took him in for right away, thankfully his retinas never detached but I got him in right away when his legs were twitching and he kind of looked spacey and fell over. Get the numbers and send them ... does he still get fluids? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
It says BUN/Creatinine Ratio = 16 creatinine=2.5 no plain ole BUN... also platelet count is 199 (low) and says clumps are detected leading to a lower count than is probably accurate. thanks for link. t Sharyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tonya, is that a typo for Bob's BUN value? Just very low for a CRF kitty with a Crea of 2.6. You will want to read and bookmark Tanya's web site. www.felineCRF.org SubQ fluids are usually given to maintain adequate hydration. Weekly fluids probably don't help much on that score. Usually kitties are no longer able to maintain adequate hydration when the Crea value gets to the high 3's but each kitty is different and requires a unique treatment plan. All of Bob's other values look good. The best food for a CRF kitty is the lowest phosphorus food he'll eat. Sharyl Sissy Rocket and Daisy's babies --- On Tue, 7/15/08, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:15 AM Hey Belinda, This has been lost in cyberspace several times. I'm hoping it comes through with the new server. Bob's numbers: creatnine 2.5 bun 16 phosphorus 4.5 potassium 4.1 HCT 37.9 Other numbers that were noted as high were: urea nitrogen 40 cholesterol 269 amylase 1440 we have put him on the new science diet kd canned (it has a better consistency and it is the only one out of about 4 we've tried that he will eat.) 100 mL of fluid per week. and yes, he has high blood pressure and we have him on norvasc 2.5 mg daily plus the vet has recommended cosequin for joints and said it actually helps the kidneys (i can't read the dosage it's written so small on the capsules and i can't find the box. i have a hard time getting them down him though so he doesn't take them with much regularity.) how does all of this sound to you. I need to put lysine in the wet food for sneaker's herpes. the vet said this would not hurt bob's kidneys. what do you think about that? tonya Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are his numbers, specifically his Creatinine, BUN, Phosphorus, Potassium, and his HCT, these are the important ones that tell you how well or not well he is doing? Get them from your vet, they can fax or give you a copy of his last blood work results, you paid for them they are yours. Tell me what they are and I can tell you what my vet would be doing if Fred had those numbers. Also has his blood pressure been checked, CRF cats are notorious for getting high blood pressure, this can be very dangerous and cause blindness if not caught and treated. Several cats on the CRF list have gone blind been put on amlodipine and regained some if not all of their sight. The retinas detach when the blood pressure gets too high, too high can vary for each individual cat but you really don't want the blood pressure higher than 170 or 180 at the vets. Fred's has been as high as 200 to 240 when he was having the episode that I took him in for right away, thankfully his retinas never detached but I got him in right away when his legs were twitching and he kind of looked spacey and fell over. Get the numbers and send them ... does he still get fluids? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
Bob also had a kidney infection at the time and was put on antibiotics. This has since cleared up. tonya Sharyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tonya, is that a typo for Bob's BUN value? Just very low for a CRF kitty with a Crea of 2.6. You will want to read and bookmark Tanya's web site. www.felineCRF.org SubQ fluids are usually given to maintain adequate hydration. Weekly fluids probably don't help much on that score. Usually kitties are no longer able to maintain adequate hydration when the Crea value gets to the high 3's but each kitty is different and requires a unique treatment plan. All of Bob's other values look good. The best food for a CRF kitty is the lowest phosphorus food he'll eat. Sharyl Sissy Rocket and Daisy's babies --- On Tue, 7/15/08, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:15 AM Hey Belinda, This has been lost in cyberspace several times. I'm hoping it comes through with the new server. Bob's numbers: creatnine 2.5 bun 16 phosphorus 4.5 potassium 4.1 HCT 37.9 Other numbers that were noted as high were: urea nitrogen 40 cholesterol 269 amylase 1440 we have put him on the new science diet kd canned (it has a better consistency and it is the only one out of about 4 we've tried that he will eat.) 100 mL of fluid per week. and yes, he has high blood pressure and we have him on norvasc 2.5 mg daily plus the vet has recommended cosequin for joints and said it actually helps the kidneys (i can't read the dosage it's written so small on the capsules and i can't find the box. i have a hard time getting them down him though so he doesn't take them with much regularity.) how does all of this sound to you. I need to put lysine in the wet food for sneaker's herpes. the vet said this would not hurt bob's kidneys. what do you think about that? tonya Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are his numbers, specifically his Creatinine, BUN, Phosphorus, Potassium, and his HCT, these are the important ones that tell you how well or not well he is doing? Get them from your vet, they can fax or give you a copy of his last blood work results, you paid for them they are yours. Tell me what they are and I can tell you what my vet would be doing if Fred had those numbers. Also has his blood pressure been checked, CRF cats are notorious for getting high blood pressure, this can be very dangerous and cause blindness if not caught and treated. Several cats on the CRF list have gone blind been put on amlodipine and regained some if not all of their sight. The retinas detach when the blood pressure gets too high, too high can vary for each individual cat but you really don't want the blood pressure higher than 170 or 180 at the vets. Fred's has been as high as 200 to 240 when he was having the episode that I took him in for right away, thankfully his retinas never detached but I got him in right away when his legs were twitching and he kind of looked spacey and fell over. Get the numbers and send them ... does he still get fluids? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
Found Bun. It is 40. Sharyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Tonya, is that a typo for Bob's BUN value? Just very low for a CRF kitty with a Crea of 2.6. You will want to read and bookmark Tanya's web site. www.felineCRF.org SubQ fluids are usually given to maintain adequate hydration. Weekly fluids probably don't help much on that score. Usually kitties are no longer able to maintain adequate hydration when the Crea value gets to the high 3's but each kitty is different and requires a unique treatment plan. All of Bob's other values look good. The best food for a CRF kitty is the lowest phosphorus food he'll eat. Sharyl Sissy Rocket and Daisy's babies --- On Tue, 7/15/08, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:15 AM Hey Belinda, This has been lost in cyberspace several times. I'm hoping it comes through with the new server. Bob's numbers: creatnine 2.5 bun 16 phosphorus 4.5 potassium 4.1 HCT 37.9 Other numbers that were noted as high were: urea nitrogen 40 cholesterol 269 amylase 1440 we have put him on the new science diet kd canned (it has a better consistency and it is the only one out of about 4 we've tried that he will eat.) 100 mL of fluid per week. and yes, he has high blood pressure and we have him on norvasc 2.5 mg daily plus the vet has recommended cosequin for joints and said it actually helps the kidneys (i can't read the dosage it's written so small on the capsules and i can't find the box. i have a hard time getting them down him though so he doesn't take them with much regularity.) how does all of this sound to you. I need to put lysine in the wet food for sneaker's herpes. the vet said this would not hurt bob's kidneys. what do you think about that? tonya Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are his numbers, specifically his Creatinine, BUN, Phosphorus, Potassium, and his HCT, these are the important ones that tell you how well or not well he is doing? Get them from your vet, they can fax or give you a copy of his last blood work results, you paid for them they are yours. Tell me what they are and I can tell you what my vet would be doing if Fred had those numbers. Also has his blood pressure been checked, CRF cats are notorious for getting high blood pressure, this can be very dangerous and cause blindness if not caught and treated. Several cats on the CRF list have gone blind been put on amlodipine and regained some if not all of their sight. The retinas detach when the blood pressure gets too high, too high can vary for each individual cat but you really don't want the blood pressure higher than 170 or 180 at the vets. Fred's has been as high as 200 to 240 when he was having the episode that I took him in for right away, thankfully his retinas never detached but I got him in right away when his legs were twitching and he kind of looked spacey and fell over. Get the numbers and send them ... does he still get fluids? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
Thanks Beth, Bob has always had problems with his kidneys/bladder. He had surgery for bladder stones at a young age. He tested positive for felv when he was young and then later tested negative. He has constantly had blood in his urine, has had bladder, kidney infections, etc.. his entire life. He's around 15 now. He's my old buddy. We have ALL (up to 15 at times) had to eat prescription diets since Bob had bladderstones. lol. We were all on Royal Canin S/O, but we've recently switched to science diet kd canned and dry (mostly canned). t Beth Noren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tonya, Sounds like Bob is having problems very similar to what we are now going through with Will Feral. He began spraying a few weeks ago, blood has been in the urine off and on. X-ray was clear, urinalysis had no crystals, good ph, no blockage. Dx was interstitial cystitis. He did 2 weeks of Clavamox with no improvement. He is now on a glucosamine/chondroitin drug made for cats. It's called Dasuquin, it also has avacado/soybean unsaponifables added to it, probably just something to make it unique and patentable and doubly expensive. I mix 2 capsules with a tablespoon of Fancy Feast every morning and he scarfs it down. Didn't seem to be helping so the vet has added 1 more drug, Elavil (Amitriptyline) 5mg per day by pill popper. It is an anti-depressant but is also supposed to have anti-inflammatory properties. 4 days into it he still had bloody urine, we're at 1 week now, haven't seen any puddles in a couple of days, but he may just be hiding his squatting better. He's still playing fetch with his mouse and eating well. We haven't done the prescription food yet as it is difficult to feed it to just one of 5. I have decreased the amount of dry food they all get and have increased the wet. I also read some good tips somewhere (maybe I got the link here?) on getting them to drink more water. I now leave a bowl on the end table by the couch where he always tries to steal sips from my glass. They all love drinking at that spot now. I put the L-lysine into this water. Here are Will's blood values for comparison: Creatnine - 2.1(0.8-2.4) *HIGH NORMAL Bun - 35 (16-36) *HIGH NORMAL Na - 162 mmol/L (150-165) K - 4 mmol/L (3.5-5.8) Cl - 120 mmol/L (112-129) HCT - 37.4 (30-45) I'll holler if the Elavil, (or anything else) seems to work. Kind regards, Beth, Blue, Moxie. Dash, Scooter, and Will Feral ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
I think the cosequin is supposed to help with phosphorous or potassium or something like that. Mine are pink and white too. I dont know what the liver values are, but I listed everything that was out of range. Bob is eating well and his weight is fine, but he HATES getting fluids. He will take his norvasc in a pill pocket but he hates taking the cosequin because it's too big for one of those and I have to pill him. I checked out the crf site Beth sent and I'm going to look at methods of giving fluids and see if I can't figure out a better way to give them that will work. I normally can barely get 50 in him at a time, and quite frankly have given up on them until I felt like he really needed them to get by. :( t Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tonya, Lysine as far as I know isn't going to hurt his kidney's, never heard that Cosquin helps them, Fred gets this for his arthritis too. He gets the pink and white capsules, my vet said I could go with 1 or 2 a day depending on how Fred's arthritis seemed to be. He currently get 1 because he gets so much stuff now already, that seems to be enough for him. They really need to be given everyday though, they take up to 6 weeks to make a difference. I've never seen a BUN that low if it is correct, what are his liver values like? Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN) - Urea, which is normally excreted by the kidney, is a by-product of protein metabolism. High levels of BUN may be the result of a high protein diet, dehydration, ulcers in the digestive tract, kidney disease, or blockage of the normal flow of urine (from a crystal or mucus plug, for example). Low BUN levels can result from a low protein diet or liver disease. I wouldn't worry so much about the low protein diet, my vet said she didn't get them on that until the end stages when they were a lot worse than Bob is, Fred doesn't eat that stuff and he does fine. He eats Fancy Feast, home cooked or baby food with supplements. He has been CRF for over 2 years now and his last blood work like I said was really good, almost normal. Mainly you want to keep the phosphorus under 6, mid 4's if good and the potassium solidly in the mid to high 4's. Low potassium can cause back leg muscle weakness and isn't good for the heart. I agree that 100cc of fluid a week is not going to do much good. If Bob is dehydrated I would give him between 50 and 100cc a day, if he isn't he doesn't need any fluids. Fred even when his numbers are low is dehydrated and needs 100cc a day. Fred has lost pretty much all the muscle in both back legs now, he still gets around OK just can't use them to scratch or anything else. He is starting to lose a bit of weight so I have to really keep on him to eat, he is getting lazy and if the food is not right there in front of him he will go without, so I have to remember to make sure he has food wherever he is laying. It's almost time for more blood work, kind of afraid of what it is going to say though, it was really good last time, so I hope it is still good. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.comHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.comForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda
That makes more sense. Here is a link on giving Sub Q fluids that has really helped me. Sophia Gets Her Subcutaneous (Sub Q) Fluids http://www.tinyurl.com/63max Good luck Sharyl --- On Tue, 7/15/08, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 2:58 PM Found Bun. It is 40. Sharyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tonya, is that a typo for Bob's BUN value? Just very low for a CRF kitty with a Crea of 2.6. You will want to read and bookmark Tanya's web site. www.felineCRF.org SubQ fluids are usually given to maintain adequate hydration. Weekly fluids probably don't help much on that score. Usually kitties are no longer able to maintain adequate hydration when the Crea value gets to the high 3's but each kitty is different and requires a unique treatment plan. All of Bob's other values look good. The best food for a CRF kitty is the lowest phosphorus food he'll eat. Sharyl Sissy Rocket and Daisy's babies --- On Tue, 7/15/08, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] crf-Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 10:15 AM Hey Belinda, This has been lost in cyberspace several times. I'm hoping it comes through with the new server. Bob's numbers: creatnine 2.5 bun 16 phosphorus 4.5 potassium 4.1 HCT 37.9 Other numbers that were noted as high were: urea nitrogen 40 cholesterol 269 amylase 1440 we have put him on the new science diet kd canned (it has a better consistency and it is the only one out of about 4 we've tried that he will eat.) 100 mL of fluid per week. and yes, he has high blood pressure and we have him on norvasc 2.5 mg daily plus the vet has recommended cosequin for joints and said it actually helps the kidneys (i can't read the dosage it's written so small on the capsules and i can't find the box. i have a hard time getting them down him though so he doesn't take them with much regularity.) how does all of this sound to you. I need to put lysine in the wet food for sneaker's herpes. the vet said this would not hurt bob's kidneys. what do you think about that? tonya Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are his numbers, specifically his Creatinine, BUN, Phosphorus, Potassium, and his HCT, these are the important ones that tell you how well or not well he is doing? Get them from your vet, they can fax or give you a copy of his last blood work results, you paid for them they are yours. Tell me what they are and I can tell you what my vet would be doing if Fred had those numbers. Also has his blood pressure been checked, CRF cats are notorious for getting high blood pressure, this can be very dangerous and cause blindness if not caught and treated. Several cats on the CRF list have gone blind been put on amlodipine and regained some if not all of their sight. The retinas detach when the blood pressure gets too high, too high can vary for each individual cat but you really don't want the blood pressure higher than 170 or 180 at the vets. Fred's has been as high as 200 to 240 when he was having the episode that I took him in for right away, thankfully his retinas never detached but I got him in right away when his legs were twitching and he kind of looked spacey and fell over. Get the numbers and send them ... does he still get fluids? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Belinda: looking for advice re kitty prozac
Belindajust wanted to clarify. (It was me who started the confusion, using the term prozac!) By prozac (below) stopping it completely, do you mean the fluoxetine that you used--the fluoxetine stopped it completely.? If the foaming issue is easily fixed (as it seems to be in everyone's experience) then it's def worth her trying the fluoxetine again. Thanks again! Kerry That is also what I did with Cody, we started with the most commonly used of the drugs (amytriptaline), we tried 2 or 3 before trying the prozac, they all helped but only the prozac stopped it completely. We had Cody's fluoxetine's compounded into a transdermal gel that we rubbed on the inside of his ear. Belinda From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 7:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: looking for advice re kitty prozac Different drugs have different absorbtion rates. We could not do transdermal prozac wth Peepers because we could not tailor the dose reliabily when given through the skin. If your vet prescribed a certain med, ask the vet at thaty time if transdermal is an option. Laura Mostello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious, can other drugs be made into creams to be used in the ear? I have a 24 pound foster cat with a bad URI, and he had to spend a week at the vet (at a cost of over $300) because I absolutely could not give him oral meds. Can this be done with Clavamox or Baytril? Laura --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Belinda Sauro wrote: From: Belinda Sauro Subject: Re: looking for advice re kitty prozac To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 1:58 PM That is also what I did with Cody, we started with the most commonly used of the drugs (amytriptaline), we tried 2 or 3 before trying the prozac, they all helped but only the prozac stopped it completely. I tried amytriptaline (that's probably spelled wrong!) on Ruben for inappropriate urination.I now believe that it was his first signs that something was wrong with him internally My daughter used the same drug (we had it compounded into a cream we could rub into the ear...pilling was out of the question) on one of her male cats...her cat became more calm, but I'm not sure it completely solved the problem. I have heard people are having great results with the plug ins that release certain pheremones that are calming, but I haven't tried them yet myself. Good luck, it's one of a cat owner's biggest problems!! -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _ IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any tax advice expressed above by Mayer Brown LLP was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by any taxpayer to avoid U.S. federal tax penalties. If such advice was written or used to support the promotion or marketing of the matter addressed above, then each offeree should seek advice from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: Belinda: looking for advice re kitty prozac
Hi Kerry, Yes the flouxetine stopped that all together, he didn't mark while he was on it. I kept him on it for about 6 months then took him off it because he was just laying around, thinking it was the flouxetine that was making him lazy, but come to find out that is just the way Cody is. He does mark on occasion, every few months, nothing like before. He used to mark all over the house several times a day, everyday. The first med made it less often, the second even less often, but the flouxetine stopped the behavior completely. I was told that half the animals using it would go back to marking if taken off, but decided to give it a try. I decided not to put him back on it because I can deal with marking every few months, if it gets worse I would put him back on it. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
RE: Belinda: looking for advice re kitty prozac
Thanks so much again Belinda and everyone! Kerry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 12:28 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Belinda: looking for advice re kitty prozac Hi Kerry, Yes the flouxetine stopped that all together, he didn't mark while he was on it. I kept him on it for about 6 months then took him off it because he was just laying around, thinking it was the flouxetine that was making him lazy, but come to find out that is just the way Cody is. He does mark on occasion, every few months, nothing like before. He used to mark all over the house several times a day, everyday. The first med made it less often, the second even less often, but the flouxetine stopped the behavior completely. I was told that half the animals using it would go back to marking if taken off, but decided to give it a try. I decided not to put him back on it because I can deal with marking every few months, if it gets worse I would put him back on it. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _ IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any tax advice expressed above by Mayer Brown LLP was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by any taxpayer to avoid U.S. federal tax penalties. If such advice was written or used to support the promotion or marketing of the matter addressed above, then each offeree should seek advice from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: Belinda off topic crf
Hi Tonya, Not them but I am now ... -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com
Belinda off topic crf
You around today? t Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tonya, I don't think this is always the case, I had Bailey tested several times in his 11 years of life, at least 4 times and the tests were given years apart and he always tested a light positive. I know it's not scientifically proven, but I believe light positive means recent exposure. Hopefully the cat will fight the virus and turn up negative within a couple of months. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com
Re: crf-Belinda
I took Bob to the vet yesterday, and they are running all his bloodwork again. I go back next week to see results and check blood pressure. He is already on the norvasc and has blood in his urine. This second doctor I saw didn't think his bloodwork showed signs of crf, but wanted to run bloodwork to look for changes since november when it was last run. I will get copies when I go in. He put Bob on amoxy for the blood in his urine and put him on cosequin, which he said can help somehow with either the kidneys or the bladder. I don't recall which. He suggested keeping him on amoxy for a while, because Bob got so sick last time I put him on Baytril. He also suggested probiotics, but wants to wait for all test results first. I will get a copy of the bloodwork from november and from yesterday. Popeye, the last cat I lost was on Norvasc and lost his eyesight. He also had a heart murmur. t Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are his numbers, specifically his Creatinine, BUN, Phosphorus, Potassium, and his HCT, these are the important ones that tell you how well or not well he is doing? Get them from your vet, they can fax or give you a copy of his last blood work results, you paid for them they are yours. Tell me what they are and I can tell you what my vet would be doing if Fred had those numbers. Also has his blood pressure been checked, CRF cats are notorious for getting high blood pressure, this can be very dangerous and cause blindness if not caught and treated. Several cats on the CRF list have gone blind been put on amlodipine and regained some if not all of their sight. The retinas detach when the blood pressure gets too high, too high can vary for each individual cat but you really don't want the blood pressure higher than 170 or 180 at the vets. Fred's has been as high as 200 to 240 when he was having the episode that I took him in for right away, thankfully his retinas never detached but I got him in right away when his legs were twitching and he kind of looked spacey and fell over. Get the numbers and send them ... does he still get fluids? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com
Re: Belinda....interested?mThanking the Monkey need web help 3/9/08
Kel Kyle is the person who designed and put up our shelter website and keeps it up to date. If you want to contact her, here is some information: Greetings Webbed Otter Webbed Hosting Clients, I hope this holiday season finds you and yours safe and well! This is a short email about an important change for all clients. In an effort to equally assist all clients, the Webbed Otter/Webbed Hosting Client Support Helpdesk Phone and Fax number are now toll-free. Please make sure you update your records, effective immediately with the new number: 877-691-6996. The local number of 770-457-3536 is no longer available and there is no fowarding number on it. As always, if you have website maintenance needs or a general question, please open a ticket by sending an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to reply. Thank you! Kel Kyle Integrity: When you do the right thing even though no one is looking. -- Anon. .--. / o\ |o 0).-. | .-;(_/ .-. \ / /)).---._| `\ , WebbedOtter.com WebbedHosting.com '. ' /(( `'-./ _/| Quality Affordable Web Site Design, \ .' ).-.;` / Hosting, Training and much more! '. | `\-' Atlanta, GA with clients world wide '._-'/ Client Support contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ``--`--` Phone/Fax: 1-877-691-6996 All email is scanned by AVG Anti-Virus before leaving my servers. - Original Message - From: catatonya To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 9:26 PM Subject: Belindainterested?mThanking the Monkey need web help 3/9/08 DawnWatch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 16:24:01 -0600 From: DawnWatch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Karen Dawn and DawnWatch/Thanking the Monkey need web help 3/9/08 I need to hire somebody to do some web work for me -- mostly updating the Thanking the Monkey website, putting up new reviews and articles and videos as needed. I can pay a reasonable hourly rate. If you have web skills and are looking for a little extra work, would you send me a note at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? References would, of course, be helpful. Many thanks, Karen Dawn You are subscribed to DawnWatch using the following address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun Mar 9 16:11:01 2008
Belinda....interested?mThanking the Monkey need web help 3/9/08
DawnWatch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 16:24:01 -0600 From: DawnWatch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Karen Dawn and DawnWatch/Thanking the Monkey need web help 3/9/08 I need to hire somebody to do some web work for me -- mostly updating the Thanking the Monkey website, putting up new reviews and articles and videos as needed. I can pay a reasonable hourly rate. If you have web skills and are looking for a little extra work, would you send me a note at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? References would, of course, be helpful. Many thanks, Karen Dawn You are subscribed to DawnWatch using the following address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun Mar 9 16:11:01 2008
Re: crf-Belinda
What are his numbers, specifically his Creatinine, BUN, Phosphorus, Potassium, and his HCT, these are the important ones that tell you how well or not well he is doing? Get them from your vet, they can fax or give you a copy of his last blood work results, you paid for them they are yours. Tell me what they are and I can tell you what my vet would be doing if Fred had those numbers. Also has his blood pressure been checked, CRF cats are notorious for getting high blood pressure, this can be very dangerous and cause blindness if not caught and treated. Several cats on the CRF list have gone blind been put on amlodipine and regained some if not all of their sight. The retinas detach when the blood pressure gets too high, too high can vary for each individual cat but you really don't want the blood pressure higher than 170 or 180 at the vets. Fred's has been as high as 200 to 240 when he was having the episode that I took him in for right away, thankfully his retinas never detached but I got him in right away when his legs were twitching and he kind of looked spacey and fell over. Get the numbers and send them ... does he still get fluids? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com
Re: crf-Belinda
I will get a copy of them and send you the numbers. I've got to speak to the new vet tomorrow about Bob's paperwork and get his prescription filled for the blood pressure. t Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are his numbers, specifically his Creatinine, BUN, Phosphorus, Potassium, and his HCT, these are the important ones that tell you how well or not well he is doing? Get them from your vet, they can fax or give you a copy of his last blood work results, you paid for them they are yours. Tell me what they are and I can tell you what my vet would be doing if Fred had those numbers. Also has his blood pressure been checked, CRF cats are notorious for getting high blood pressure, this can be very dangerous and cause blindness if not caught and treated. Several cats on the CRF list have gone blind been put on amlodipine and regained some if not all of their sight. The retinas detach when the blood pressure gets too high, too high can vary for each individual cat but you really don't want the blood pressure higher than 170 or 180 at the vets. Fred's has been as high as 200 to 240 when he was having the episode that I took him in for right away, thankfully his retinas never detached but I got him in right away when his legs were twitching and he kind of looked spacey and fell over. Get the numbers and send them ... does he still get fluids? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com
Re: crf-Belinda
I will get a copy of them and send you the numbers. I've got to speak to the new vet tomorrow about Bob's paperwork and get his prescription filled for the blood pressure. t Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are his numbers, specifically his Creatinine, BUN, Phosphorus, Potassium, and his HCT, these are the important ones that tell you how well or not well he is doing? Get them from your vet, they can fax or give you a copy of his last blood work results, you paid for them they are yours. Tell me what they are and I can tell you what my vet would be doing if Fred had those numbers. Also has his blood pressure been checked, CRF cats are notorious for getting high blood pressure, this can be very dangerous and cause blindness if not caught and treated. Several cats on the CRF list have gone blind been put on amlodipine and regained some if not all of their sight. The retinas detach when the blood pressure gets too high, too high can vary for each individual cat but you really don't want the blood pressure higher than 170 or 180 at the vets. Fred's has been as high as 200 to 240 when he was having the episode that I took him in for right away, thankfully his retinas never detached but I got him in right away when his legs were twitching and he kind of looked spacey and fell over. Get the numbers and send them ... does he still get fluids? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com
Re: crf-Belinda
I don't have a copy of his bloodwork, but it is in very, very, early stages. The vet wanted to try him on something 'new' and sent a test to Michigan State university. I have had to change vets again. :( so I'm hoping this new vet will follow through with that. She has recommended I start him on fluids weekly only at this time, but he will not stand for them. he also has high blood pressure and is on the amlodipine. I was hoping you knew something about the medication that that the previous vet was talking about (that she sent bloodwork to michigan state for) was something you might know about. I don't know how much you've kept up with my vet saga. But I found a really good vet, BUT she wouldn't do ANY procedures in the room. wanted to take Bob back for EVERYTHING. So I switched to the vet who has a child in my class and guess what? he knew that vet and didn't like her. He said the stuff about not allowing people into the back if they wanted to be with their animals was b.s. and had nothing to do with insurance. hinted that this new vet might not be the nicest behind closed doors. so I switched to him... but he's not as 'cutting edge' on things as she was. also have had a dog with a broken foot going on 8 weeks now, plus sneakers' herpes or whatever it is... so I haven't got Bob back in. t Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tonya, Fred gets, Nutrived which is a liquid for his slight anemia, he gets a potassium supplement (potassium gluconate powder that I put in capsules, he gets 4 a day) and he gets phosphorus binders because his phosphorus was too high, we've got it down again and he gets Marrow Plus (this is for anemia and energy, not sure if this is really doing much, his HCT has stayed at 28%, just low for months so it may be helping) and amlodipine and benazipril for high blood pressure. He just had his last blood work a week ago and all his number were very good, there has been a big improvement. We started him on benazapril in addition to his amlodipine for high blood pressure and his numbers shot up. They are almost normal again and benazapril is known to make the numbers go higher initially when started. He's also been on an antibiotics and eye goop for a urinary tract infection and conguntivitis in his eye this last week. I took him in last week because I could tell he wasn't feeling well. We go in this morning to check on those two things and recheck his blood pressure, forgot last week. My vet is thrilled that his numbers have come down so much. He also gets 150ml of fluid daily. Fred gets pills 5 or 6 times a day and we have it down to a routine now, he is pretty good about it. He doesn't love it but he knows it is going to happen so he just lets me do it, I think he realizes he feels better too, especially after his fluids. Do you have blood work you can send me for your possible CRF kitty? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.comHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.comForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com
Re: crf-Belinda
by the way the previous vet did recommend 150 mL of fluids per week for right now. I've also put him on all wet food. It's a pain not to have someone to call my vet! Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tonya, Fred gets, Nutrived which is a liquid for his slight anemia, he gets a potassium supplement (potassium gluconate powder that I put in capsules, he gets 4 a day) and he gets phosphorus binders because his phosphorus was too high, we've got it down again and he gets Marrow Plus (this is for anemia and energy, not sure if this is really doing much, his HCT has stayed at 28%, just low for months so it may be helping) and amlodipine and benazipril for high blood pressure. He just had his last blood work a week ago and all his number were very good, there has been a big improvement. We started him on benazapril in addition to his amlodipine for high blood pressure and his numbers shot up. They are almost normal again and benazapril is known to make the numbers go higher initially when started. He's also been on an antibiotics and eye goop for a urinary tract infection and conguntivitis in his eye this last week. I took him in last week because I could tell he wasn't feeling well. We go in this morning to check on those two things and recheck his blood pressure, forgot last week. My vet is thrilled that his numbers have come down so much. He also gets 150ml of fluid daily. Fred gets pills 5 or 6 times a day and we have it down to a routine now, he is pretty good about it. He doesn't love it but he knows it is going to happen so he just lets me do it, I think he realizes he feels better too, especially after his fluids. Do you have blood work you can send me for your possible CRF kitty? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.comHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.comForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com
Re: crf-Belinda
Hi Tonya, Fred gets, *Nutrived* which is a liquid for his slight anemia, he gets a potassium supplement (*potassium gluconate powder* that I put in capsules, he gets 4 a day) and he gets *phosphorus binders* because his phosphorus was too high, we've got it down again and he gets *Marrow Plus* (this is for anemia and energy, not sure if this is really doing much, his HCT has stayed at 28%, just low for months so it may be helping) and *amlodipine* and *benazipril* for high blood pressure. He just had his last blood work a week ago and all his number were very good, there has been a big improvement. We started him on benazapril in addition to his amlodipine for high blood pressure and his numbers shot up. They are almost normal again and benazapril is known to make the numbers go higher initially when started. He's also been on an antibiotics and eye goop for a urinary tract infection and conguntivitis in his eye this last week. I took him in last week because I could tell he wasn't feeling well. We go in this morning to check on those two things and recheck his blood pressure, forgot last week. My vet is thrilled that his numbers have come down so much. He also gets 150ml of fluid daily. Fred gets pills 5 or 6 times a day and we have it down to a routine now, he is pretty good about it. He doesn't love it but he knows it is going to happen so he just lets me do it, I think he realizes he feels better too, especially after his fluids. Do you have blood work you can send me for your possible CRF kitty? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://www.bemikitties.com HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://www.hostdesign4u.com ForYouByUs.com [custom printing] http://www.foryoubyus.com
Kelley from Belinda
Kelley, My sincerest apologies for jumping to conclusions, I was completely fooled by a hoarder once and it is a very delicate subject for me. I should have known with Susan telling the story it probably wasn't true, I did view the video and like I said in my email that was taken with a big grain of salt, I know they aren't going to say anything nice about the person they are taking animals away from. I hope you can get this all squared away and the truth come out, I just wish the rumor mongers would get their what they have coming but that probably won't happen. I do believe in the after life though and they will have to face themselves and what they did here there, should be a pretty uncomfortable time for them!! Why in God's name did your vet start all this trouble??? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Kelley from Belinda
So sad, for the cats. Good luck w/ your life, you obviously live it through very thick rose tinted glasses Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED]; MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: Kelley from Belinda Kelley, My sincerest apologies for jumping to conclusions, I was completely fooled by a hoarder once and it is a very delicate subject for me. I should have known with Susan telling the story it probably wasn't true, I did view the video and like I said in my email that was taken with a big grain of salt, I know they aren't going to say anything nice about the person they are taking animals away from. I hope you can get this all squared away and the truth come out, I just wish the rumor mongers would get their what they have coming but that probably won't happen. I do believe in the after life though and they will have to face themselves and what they did here there, should be a pretty uncomfortable time for them!! Why in God's name did your vet start all this trouble??? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: Kelley from Belinda
We all want the very best for ALL the little ones--it is the one thing we share. None of us, including you, have actually seen the AC video and whether true or not, there is no need to become sarcastic or caustic. If this is a true hoarder situation, then we all need to encourage Kelly to get some help. If it is not true, then we all need to help support her struggle. Christiane Biagi 914-632-4672 Cell: 914-720-6888 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART) www.findkpets.org Join Us Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Dubose Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 2:02 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Kelley from Belinda So sad, for the cats. Good luck w/ your life, you obviously live it through very thick rose tinted glasses Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED]; MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: Kelley from Belinda Kelley, My sincerest apologies for jumping to conclusions, I was completely fooled by a hoarder once and it is a very delicate subject for me. I should have known with Susan telling the story it probably wasn't true, I did view the video and like I said in my email that was taken with a big grain of salt, I know they aren't going to say anything nice about the person they are taking animals away from. I hope you can get this all squared away and the truth come out, I just wish the rumor mongers would get their what they have coming but that probably won't happen. I do believe in the after life though and they will have to face themselves and what they did here there, should be a pretty uncomfortable time for them!! Why in God's name did your vet start all this trouble??? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Kelley from Belinda
some people are never bothered by facts. and some folks don't know their anal glands from their whiskers, and a simple perusal of their emails for months back proves it. On Nov 19, 2007 2:11 PM, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We all want the very best for ALL the little ones--it is the one thing we share. None of us, including you, have actually seen the AC video and whether true or not, there is no need to become sarcastic or caustic. If this is a true hoarder situation, then we all need to encourage Kelly to get some help. If it is not true, then we all need to help support her struggle. Christiane Biagi 914-632-4672 Cell: 914-720-6888 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART) www.findkpets.org Join Us Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Dubose Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 2:02 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Kelley from Belinda So sad, for the cats. Good luck w/ your life, you obviously live it through very thick rose tinted glasses Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED]; MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: Kelley from Belinda Kelley, My sincerest apologies for jumping to conclusions, I was completely fooled by a hoarder once and it is a very delicate subject for me. I should have known with Susan telling the story it probably wasn't true, I did view the video and like I said in my email that was taken with a big grain of salt, I know they aren't going to say anything nice about the person they are taking animals away from. I hope you can get this all squared away and the truth come out, I just wish the rumor mongers would get their what they have coming but that probably won't happen. I do believe in the after life though and they will have to face themselves and what they did here there, should be a pretty uncomfortable time for them!! Why in God's name did your vet start all this trouble??? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Belinda--going to do transfusion with CW
CW went to the vet today and got a B12 shot and she and two of her negative buddies were typed to confirm they are compatible for transfusion (I have at least two good donor cats). Since CW is eating great (without any appetite stimulants) and not in any respiratory distress and her overall attitude and appearance is very positive, the vet said we could do the transfusion on Friday once with confirm the blood typing compatibiliy -- although it would be very rare, if the cats were not compatible, we might make things worse. My vet thinks the drop in RBC has been chronic and very gradual and may not dropping as quickly as sometimes since there have been no other symptomsso a wait of 2 days was ok. I am willing to try the epogen and prednisolone provided giving them is not a struggle and stressful to CW. I know this is not a cure, but since her qualitiy of life is still good, I sort of feel that I owe it to her to try and maintain that. I will keep folks posted. I am going to look into the supplement you suggested, too. Thanks, Tracy
Questions for Belinda
In your message below, you talked about using epogen and prenisolone for anemiaone of my other FeLV+ cat's RBC was last tested (2 weeks ago) to be about 8%. CW is a very small cat, about 6-7 years old and has had FeLV+ since she was a kitten. She still acts pretty much the same as always (she always hid alot and still does) and she still has a great appetite. Her only other issue has been some inappropriate elimination issues which intitally lead me to think she had a UTI, etcso we checked her for that and her urine is dilute, but her blood results for the kidney / organ functioning was ok...but that was when the anemia was discovered although we suspected it since her tongue was not as pink as we (vet and I) would have liked. CW is a grey cat with black gums and pads, so it has always been hard to monitor her pinkness...anyway, vet and I briefly dicussed what might be done for CW -- the anemia is NON-regenerative. I have not yet done anything other than watch her closely and make sure she is eating (she is--even has gained weight) and she is doing better on the litter box (this might have been related to a tooth issue from earlier also, tooth was removed--healed nicely). So, all that for the question: the epogen/pernisolone protocal you talked about below, was that for a cat with NON regenerative anemia, too? I don't want to stress CW out with lots of meds, esp. if they are not going to make much difference, but I don't want to give up if there is something else to try. After losing Sylvester this weekend, I panicked about CW and rushed her the ER vet and they said she looked good, other than the pale tongue, and as long as she is eating and NOT open mouth breathing, she is holding her own. Any suggestions welcome. [Original Message] From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: 8/25/2007 3:11:14 PM Subject: Re: Typical course of a dying FELV kitty? long letter- sorry butpleaseindulge I used epogen (same thing as procrit) when my Bailey was anemic along with prenisolone because we suspected the virus was in his bone marrow supressing his immune system and interfering with blood building. We reversed his anemia with this combo. Procrit used in humans is at a much, much higher does and shouldn't scare anyone off from using it with cats that are anemic, any cats with CRF end up using it in the later stages as the kidney disease eventually interferes with the production of erythropoietin which the Epogen, Procrit and the new drug called Aranesp help to produce. In my mind your cat WILL die if the enemia isn't reversed period, so if there is something that may help what have you got to lose?? Below paragraph my opinion (based on what my vet told me when I asked her about this): PS. Has your cat been on a minimum 4 to 6 week course of Doxocycline for possible hemobartonella? Even if he tested negative he should have gotten this (my opinion). Hemo is very hard to test for and many cats tests negative again and again before it is finally found. Though they are never cured of hemo the doxy will put it into remission. If they don't have it it isn't going to hurt to get the doxy but my very well save their life if they have an undiagnosed case of hemo. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony?
I'm so sorry for your loss of Miss Sue. tonya anne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Belinda, Miss Sue was not feline leukemia positive. She was with me for 8 years and was 10 years old. She died suddenly on Friday. I suspect her poor heart as she was obese and although I was working on it with her and thought some progress was being made over the last year, it was very slow going. I suspect she had a metabolic disorder, though, as her coat was always greasy and flecked with dandruff-like particles, ever since I first got her. She was a sweet and never complaining girl, very friendly to humans who visited, which is an oddity in itself at my house. Most of my cats run and hide until the stranger is gone. She always purred when I pet her and loved being combed and watching birds out the window. She was white with tabby-like striped patches. She was loved by all who knew her. Thanks, Belinda, Anne and angels Jimi Too Cool, Simms, Buggsy and Nala, all feline leukemia positive and lots of other fur covered friends in MI, including Sophie, who loves you all here
Re: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony?
Marylyn, Susan, Wendy, Caroline, Diane R., Glenda and family and Tonya, Thank you all for your kind and comforting messages. I am missing my sweet girl so much. Marylyn, I loved the image of Miss Sue actually playing with the birds now. Caroline, my condolences go out to you on the loss of your sweet Monkee. I have not been able to keep up with posts recently, sorry to say, but wanted to read more about the ceremony you had for Monkee. He was truly loved, that much was plain to see just from the topic titles regarding Monkee. Will you take another cat for a friend? That is very much a nice thought about the quiet and peace that came out of Monkee's passing. Susan, the vet never suspected diabetes with Miss Sue and she never exhibited the classic symptoms of excessive thirst and/or peeing and/or weight loss so I think I can safely say that no, she was not diabetic. Thank you all so much, once again. Your support is so appreciated, as always, Anne and Sophie and the other fur covered friends in Michigan along with FeLV angels Jimi Too Cool, Simms, Buggsy and Nala * I am so sorry she had to leave. Remember that now she can play with the birds. Marylyn *** Hi Anne, I am sorry to hear about Miss Sue. Greasy coat, dandruff obese sounds like she was diabetic? Was she diabetic? Susan J. DuBose Anne, I'm really sorry to hear about Miss Sue's passing. I hope you are doing ok. Prayers going out for comfort for you. :) Wendy ** Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony? I also wanted to express my sadness at your kitty's passing. Having just lost my beloved Monkee in the early morning hours of July 16, I can truly say that I feel your pain. And sadly, I had just told my mother that this list serve has been really quiet...literally, since Monkee's passing. That almost all of the topics discussed since he passed have been Off Topic. It made me oddly happy to think that Monkee's passing kind of kicked off a period of peacefulness for the members of this group. It just seemed like no one was really having any crises with their feleuk cats. And, although another member's non-feleuk cat- Keisha- passed just before Monkee on that Sunday, from what I could tell, no one else has lost a cat since Monkee and Keisha-- almost two weeks of quiet. I'm sure that sounds a little out there, but I couldn't help but notice that in the wake of Monkee's death and it just really comforted me to think that no one else was having to go through what I've been going through these past almost two weeks. For me, I realize that by having only Monkee, he was my absolute world and my house has been too quiet and lonely since he's been gone. You have your other babies to focus on and to lean on, so take advantage of that. Best of luck to you and the remainder of your babies. ** Anne, I'm so sorry Miss Sue had to leave you. It sounds like she was a sweetheart. Gentle Bridge vibes to her. Diane R. ** Anne, I'm sorry your little girl, Miss Sue, is gone. She obviously knew she was loved. It sounds like you took very good care of her...It has to be very hard after having her for so long...Glenda and family *** I'm so sorry for your loss of Miss Sue. tonya
Re: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony?
Anne, I'm so sorry to hear about Miss Sue She was loved by you and she loved you too. You had many years together even though it's never enough. I know it will be hard with her being gone. The day will come when you both will be together again. Your in my thoughts and prayers as always. P.S. Long time no hear. I've been wondering how you been doing anyway. Terrie Mohr-Forker TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS SIAMESE COLLIE RESCUE Donations accepted at: _https://www.paypal.com/_ (https://www.paypal.com/) _http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/_ (http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/) _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescue_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescue) _http://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.html_ (http://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.html) _http://www.felineleukemia.org/_ (http://www.felineleukemia.org/) _http://www.hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.html_ (http://www.hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.html) _http://www.petloss.com/_ (http://www.petloss.com/) ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony?
Belinda, Miss Sue was not feline leukemia positive. She was with me for 8 years and was 10 years old. She died suddenly on Friday. I suspect her poor heart as she was obese and although I was working on it with her and thought some progress was being made over the last year, it was very slow going. I suspect she had a metabolic disorder, though, as her coat was always greasy and flecked with dandruff-like particles, ever since I first got her. She was a sweet and never complaining girl, very friendly to humans who visited, which is an oddity in itself at my house. Most of my cats run and hide until the stranger is gone. She always purred when I pet her and loved being combed and watching birds out the window. She was white with tabby-like striped patches. She was loved by all who knew her. Thanks, Belinda, Anne and angels Jimi Too Cool, Simms, Buggsy and Nala, all feline leukemia positive and lots of other fur covered friends in MI, including Sophie, who loves you all here
Re: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony?
I am so sorry she had to leave. Remember that now she can play with the birds. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: anne To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony? Belinda, Miss Sue was not feline leukemia positive. She was with me for 8 years and was 10 years old. She died suddenly on Friday. I suspect her poor heart as she was obese and although I was working on it with her and thought some progress was being made over the last year, it was very slow going. I suspect she had a metabolic disorder, though, as her coat was always greasy and flecked with dandruff-like particles, ever since I first got her. She was a sweet and never complaining girl, very friendly to humans who visited, which is an oddity in itself at my house. Most of my cats run and hide until the stranger is gone. She always purred when I pet her and loved being combed and watching birds out the window. She was white with tabby-like striped patches. She was loved by all who knew her. Thanks, Belinda, Anne and angels Jimi Too Cool, Simms, Buggsy and Nala, all feline leukemia positive and lots of other fur covered friends in MI, including Sophie, who loves you all here
Re: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony?
Hi Anne, I am sorry to hear about Miss Sue. Greasy coat, dandruff obese sounds like she was diabetic? Was she diabetic? Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: anne To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony? Belinda, Miss Sue was not feline leukemia positive. She was with me for 8 years and was 10 years old. She died suddenly on Friday. I suspect her poor heart as she was obese and although I was working on it with her and thought some progress was being made over the last year, it was very slow going. I suspect she had a metabolic disorder, though, as her coat was always greasy and flecked with dandruff-like particles, ever since I first got her. She was a sweet and never complaining girl, very friendly to humans who visited, which is an oddity in itself at my house. Most of my cats run and hide until the stranger is gone. She always purred when I pet her and loved being combed and watching birds out the window. She was white with tabby-like striped patches. She was loved by all who knew her. Thanks, Belinda, Anne and angels Jimi Too Cool, Simms, Buggsy and Nala, all feline leukemia positive and lots of other fur covered friends in MI, including Sophie, who loves you all here
Re: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony?
Anne, I'm really sorry to hear about Miss Sue's passing. I hope you are doing ok. Prayers going out for comfort for you. :) Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ - Original Message From: anne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 3:42:57 PM Subject: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony? Belinda, Miss Sue was not feline leukemia positive. She was with me for 8 years and was 10 years old. She died suddenly on Friday. I suspect her poor heart as she was obese and although I was working on it with her and thought some progress was being made over the last year, it was very slow going. I suspect she had a metabolic disorder, though, as her coat was always greasy and flecked with dandruff-like particles, ever since I first got her. She was a sweet and never complaining girl, very friendly to humans who visited, which is an oddity in itself at my house. Most of my cats run and hide until the stranger is gone. She always purred when I pet her and loved being combed and watching birds out the window. She was white with tabby-like striped patches. She was loved by all who knew her. Thanks, Belinda, Anne and angels Jimi Too Cool, Simms, Buggsy and Nala, all feline leukemia positive and lots of other fur covered friends in MI, including Sophie, who loves you all here Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/
Re: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony?
Anne: I also wanted to express my sadness at your kitty's passing. Having just lost my beloved Monkee in the early morning hours of July 16, I can truly say that I feel your pain. And sadly, I had just told my mother that this list serve has been really quiet...literally, since Monkee's passing. That almost all of the topics discussed since he passed have been Off Topic. It made me oddly happy to think that Monkee's passing kind of kicked off a period of peacefulness for the members of this group. It just seemed like no one was really having any crises with their feleuk cats. And, although another member's non-feleuk cat- Keisha- passed just before Monkee on that Sunday, from what I could tell, no one else has lost a cat since Monkee and Keisha-- almost two weeks of quiet. I'm sure that sounds a little "out there," but I couldn't help but notice that in the wake of Monkee's death and it just really comforted me to think that no one else was having to go through what I've been going through these past almost two weeks. For me, I realize that by having only Monkee, he was my absolute world and my house has been too quiet and lonely since he's been gone. You have your other babies to focus on and to lean on, so take advantage of that. Best of luck to you and the remainder of your babies. -Caroline From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony?Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Anne, I'm really sorry to hear about Miss Sue's passing. I hope you are doing ok. Prayers going out for comfort for you. :) Wendy "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ - Original Message From: anne [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 3:42:57 PMSubject: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony? Belinda, Miss Sue was not feline leukemia positive. She was with me for 8 years and was 10 years old. She died suddenly on Friday. I suspect her poor heart as she was obese and although I was working on it with her and thought some progress was being made over the last year, it was very slow going. I suspect she had a metabolic disorder, though, as her coat was always greasy and flecked with dandruff-like particles, ever since I first got her. She was a sweet and never complaining girl, very friendly to humans who visited, which is an oddity in itself at my house. Most of my cats run and hide until the stranger is gone. She always purred when I pet her and loved being combed and watching birds out the window. She was white with tabby-like striped patches. She was loved by all who knew her. Thanks, Belinda, Anne and angels Jimi Too Cool, Simms, Buggsy and Nala, all feline leukemia positive and lots of other fur covered friends in MI, including Sophie, who loves you all here Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. i'm making a difference. Make every IM count for the cause of your choice. Join Now.
RE: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony?
Anne, I'm so sorry Miss Sue had to leave you. It sounds like she was a sweetheart. Gentle Bridge vibes to her. Diane R. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of anne Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 3:43 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony? Belinda, Miss Sue was not feline leukemia positive. She was with me for 8 years and was 10 years old. She died suddenly on Friday. I suspect her poor heart as she was obese and although I was working on it with her and thought some progress was being made over the last year, it was very slow going. I suspect she had a metabolic disorder, though, as her coat was always greasy and flecked with dandruff-like particles, ever since I first got her. She was a sweet and never complaining girl, very friendly to humans who visited, which is an oddity in itself at my house. Most of my cats run and hide until the stranger is gone. She always purred when I pet her and loved being combed and watching birds out the window. She was white with tabby-like striped patches. She was loved by all who knew her. Thanks, Belinda, Anne and angels Jimi Too Cool, Simms, Buggsy and Nala, all feline leukemia positive and lots of other fur covered friends in MI, including Sophie, who loves you all here
Re: Belinda, please add Miss Sue to the Candlelighting ceremony?
Anne, I'm sorry your little girl, Miss Sue, is gone. She obviously knew she was loved. It sounds like you took very good care of her...It has to be very hard after having her for so long...Glenda and family --- anne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Belinda, Miss Sue was not feline leukemia positive. She was with me for 8 years and was 10 years old. She died suddenly on Friday. I suspect her poor heart as she was obese and although I was working on it with her and thought some progress was being made over the last year, it was very slow going. I suspect she had a metabolic disorder, though, as her coat was always greasy and flecked with dandruff-like particles, ever since I first got her. She was a sweet and never complaining girl, very friendly to humans who visited, which is an oddity in itself at my house. Most of my cats run and hide until the stranger is gone. She always purred when I pet her and loved being combed and watching birds out the window. She was white with tabby-like striped patches. She was loved by all who knew her. Thanks, Belinda, Anne and angels Jimi Too Cool, Simms, Buggsy and Nala, all feline leukemia positive and lots of other fur covered friends in MI, including Sophie, who loves you all here Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545433
RE: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
You're a good mom Caroline!! You made me laugh out loud with your description of feeling weak-kneed. :) Gina Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I talked to Dr. Susan Maier (holistic) yesterday. I was having a lot of trouble myself remaining positive and I was doing a lot of crying this week about Monkee's anemia situation. She said that Monkee's has a really strong life-force and he looks really good and I need to stay positive because the blood transfusion will buy more time for her remedies to work. I asked about reversal of the anemia and asked her to look at the records of the blood results from his CBC on Tuesday at Dr. Daley's. I asked if she could tell if he had regenerative or nonregenerative anemia based on those. She said his regenerative values were all within the normal limits, but that no, she couldn't tell from the blood results. However, she told me if the anemia is brought on by the chemo, it's usually regenerative (and can thus be reversed); if the anemia is brought on by his actual Feline Leukemia, it's usually nonregenerative (and usually irreversible). I said, I guess that is why Dr. Daley talked about doing the bone marrow biopsy, because that would be the only way to really examine the marrow and be able to tell what is going on with the RBC, right? Dr. Maier said yes. I said, of course, we aren't doing a bone marrow biopsy, but now I FINALLY have a better understanding of what is going on. I know Dr. Daley is a good Vet, she's just so clinical, and soo cerebral that I don't think she explains things the way I need things explained to me. And it's not that I am dumb, it's just that this is my first FelV+ cat- and unlike her, I haven't been through this (sadly) a million times with other FelV+ cats. Also, when I am sitting there crying my eyes out at what she is saying to me, I really need her to slow down and talk to me like I am a dumb baby! So, I am kind of having an issue with that right now. Dr. Maier said that I can call her anytime to bounce ideas off of her or ask for clarification about something so I thought that was very refreshing. I have also put a call into Monkee's original Vet, Dr. Jones at the Cat Clinic of Louisville- for him to call me to discuss us returning to him for primary care since Monkee's main problem now is anemia and not cancer. I haven't heard from him yet. But his office is only 5 minutes away, so the stress on Monkee is decreased. Plus, he only treats cats and so the stress of the sound of dogs barking is also eliminated for Monkee. Dr. Jones just has a really good bedside manner that I think Monkee and I both really need right now. Dr. Maier suggested that I feed Monkee raw, lean hamburger meat and chicken livers to help his anemia. I was shocked because I am a vegetarian so I NEVER buy meat, much less handle it, but I had to suppress my disgust and do it for Monkee. Our first foray into this realm was traumatic- for me. The chicken livers really freaked me out. When I was cutting them up the first time, my legs got weak and my knees felt like they might buckle, but Monkee was sitting on the floor looking up at me licking his chops, so I had to pull through, so as not to faint and fall on top of him Needless to say, he LOVES it! I think I gave him too much last night- probably because I was losing my mind while cutting everything up- and I was worried that I overdid it and he couldn't eat it all, but he cleared his plate! The same this morning. It's hilarious to watch him eat the livers because, even though I have been coating the place with paper towels, he will pick up a piece and shake his head around to help break it up (like a dog) and he so he gets blood and liver juice (yuck) everywhere! I swear he's doing it just to freak me out! But he is so happy getting raw food, I think that, in and of itself, is going to increase his life force ten-fold! - From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:46:49 -0700 (PDT) Hi Belinda, In response to your post below, I felt the need to clarify for Caroline's sake. Bailey's situation should be considered a miracle in my book. As we have seen too many times here, most cats do not respond as Bailey did with that type of anemia; it claims the lives of many. While I do not wish to play a part in taking away Caroline's hope, I also want to be completely upfront about non-regenerative anemia. It can be reversed, but not usually. I should have made this statement earlier. So That being said, it may be wise to keep her kitty on Epogen considering Bailey's case, as we never know when a situation might be reversed. Respectfully, Wendy --- Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Great idea about the binder! Gina Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Monkee's HCT was 13% two weeks ago (when we first went to the Vet because I knew something was wrong). That was on a Tuesday. They gave him .3 of Epogen and sent me home with a tiny bottle to give him sub-cu injections of Epogen that Thurs, and Sat. They increased his predisone (which was 5 mg- I think? the little, small pills), every other day, to one every day; his Vet also added the appetite stimulant, 1/2 a pill twice a day. We did the week of Epogen, went back this Tues. and that is when his HCT count was 10% and his Vet told us the options (marrow biopsy, transfusion, etc). We did the blood transfusion on Wed. and they said after it, his count was up to 15%. The instructions were to just continue the pred and the appetite stim. Nothing was said about the Interferon or Epogen and I was too out of it to ask because I was so shocked by the bill from the transfusion (and all I could think was that we can't afford another one). He was, what I call Super Monkee (it speaks for itself) on Wed., after the transfusion. But since then, he's gone down a little bit (not with eating though); but he's defintely less Super Monkee, and he's less bright-eyed. But he is still sleeping better- actual sound sleeping, as opposed to the just laying there and staring into space sleeping. I have printed your emails and I filed them in Monkee's Care Binder- that I have organized with ALL his information and it has dividers and everything. I am going to ask questions from the emails when a Vet ever calls me back! But I decided I need to bring some MAJOR organization to caring for Monkee if I want to do this right, hence the binder! I highly suggest this to anyone who isn't already doing something similar. I take The Monkee Binder with me everywhere. -Caroline - From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:22:31 -0700 PS. If it were me I would either find a vet who knows how to work with epogen or ask your vet to research it, or take research you've done to him and ask him to work with you. Along with the epogen a cat should be getting blood builders, nutrived is a good source for this. It has the iron, vitamin b needed to build blood. Fred's HCT got as low as 24% and the nutrived got him back up to 30%. Nutrived wouldn't be enough for a cat with an HCT of 18% or less. I can't remember what is Monkee's HCT? PS. Bailey had the bone marrow aspirate and that is why we very strongly suspected cancer somewhere. He had Myloid Dysplastic (basically there were pre-cancerous cells there). We did every test we could think of and couldn't find the cancer, even after we got his HCT to normal, he had no energy and wouldn't eat. He succumbed to pancreatic cancer which we found after he passed with a necropsy. I suspected his pancreas was involved because he always was uncomfortable when I fed him through his feeding tube. He was on high doses of prednisolone and was getting doxy just incase his hemobartonella test was a false negative. The pred and the epo are what got his HCT back to normal and stopped the bone marrow surpression by the virus. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com - Picture this share your photos and you could win big! Visit my Tigger Tales site! - Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
How much does he weigh? And what is the strength of epogen did your vet use? I am emailing you the link regarding information on epogen in case you find it helpful. http://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm#treatmentshttp://www.felinecrf.org/anaemia.htm#treatments - Original Message - From: Gina WNmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 3:44 AM Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues Great idea about the binder! Gina Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Monkee's HCT was 13% two weeks ago (when we first went to the Vet because I knew something was wrong). That was on a Tuesday. They gave him .3 of Epogen and sent me home with a tiny bottle to give him sub-cu injections of Epogen that Thurs, and Sat. They increased his predisone (which was 5 mg- I think? the little, small pills), every other day, to one every day; his Vet also added the appetite stimulant, 1/2 a pill twice a day. We did the week of Epogen, went back this Tues. and that is when his HCT count was 10% and his Vet told us the options (marrow biopsy, transfusion, etc). We did the blood transfusion on Wed. and they said after it, his count was up to 15%. The instructions were to just continue the pred and the appetite stim. Nothing was said about the Interferon or Epogen and I was too out of it to ask because I was so shocked by the bill from the transfusion (and all I could think was that we can't afford another one). He was, what I call Super Monkee (it speaks for itself) on Wed., after the transfusion. But since then, he's gone down a little bit (not with eating though); but he's defintely less Super Monkee, and he's less bright-eyed. But he is still sleeping better- actual sound sleeping, as opposed to the just laying there and staring into space sleeping. I have printed your emails and I filed them in Monkee's Care Binder- that I have organized with ALL his information and it has dividers and everything. I am going to ask questions from the emails when a Vet ever calls me back! But I decided I need to bring some MAJOR organization to caring for Monkee if I want to do this right, hence the binder! I highly suggest this to anyone who isn't already doing something similar. I take The Monkee Binder with me everywhere. -Caroline -- From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:22:31 -0700 PS. If it were me I would either find a vet who knows how to work with epogen or ask your vet to research it, or take research you've done to him and ask him to work with you. Along with the epogen a cat should be getting blood builders, nutrived is a good source for this. It has the iron, vitamin b needed to build blood. Fred's HCT got as low as 24% and the nutrived got him back up to 30%. Nutrived wouldn't be enough for a cat with an HCT of 18% or less. I can't remember what is Monkee's HCT? PS. Bailey had the bone marrow aspirate and that is why we very strongly suspected cancer somewhere. He had Myloid Dysplastic (basically there were pre-cancerous cells there). We did every test we could think of and couldn't find the cancer, even after we got his HCT to normal, he had no energy and wouldn't eat. He succumbed to pancreatic cancer which we found after he passed with a necropsy. I suspected his pancreas was involved because he always was uncomfortable when I fed him through his feeding tube. He was on high doses of prednisolone and was getting doxy just incase his hemobartonella test was a false negative. The pred and the epo are what got his HCT back to normal and stopped the bone marrow surpression by the virus. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com Picture this - share your photos and you could win big!http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2740??PS=47575 Visit my Tigger Taleshttp://tiggerwiggins.com/ site! -- Now that's room service! Choose
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
, is going to increase his life force ten-fold! From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:46:49 -0700 (PDT) Hi Belinda, In response to your post below, I felt the need to clarify for Caroline's sake. Bailey's situation should be considered a miracle in my book. As we have seen too many times here, most cats do not respond as Bailey did with that type of anemia; it claims the lives of many. While I do not wish to play a part in taking away Caroline's hope, I also want to be completely upfront about non-regenerative anemia. It can be reversed, but not usually. I should have made this statement earlier. So That being said, it may be wise to keep her kitty on Epogen considering Bailey's case, as we never know when a situation might be reversed. Respectfully, Wendy --- Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everytime I hear this I post this, Bailey's anemia was non regenerative and we DID reverse it. and it is not a good anemia to have. It means the leukemia is probably active in the bone marrow, which is, as far as I know, irreversable. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ _ ___ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best Web mail—award-winning Windows Live Hotmail.
To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Hi Belinda, In response to your post below, I felt the need to clarify for Caroline's sake. Bailey's situation should be considered a miracle in my book. As we have seen too many times here, most cats do not respond as Bailey did with that type of anemia; it claims the lives of many. While I do not wish to play a part in taking away Caroline's hope, I also want to be completely upfront about non-regenerative anemia. It can be reversed, but not usually. I should have made this statement earlier. So That being said, it may be wise to keep her kitty on Epogen considering Bailey's case, as we never know when a situation might be reversed. Respectfully, Wendy --- Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everytime I hear this I post this, Bailey's anemia was non regenerative and we DID reverse it. and it is not a good anemia to have. It means the leukemia is probably active in the bone marrow, which is, as far as I know, irreversable. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
RE: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
I talked to Dr. Susan Maier (holistic) yesterday. I was having a lot of trouble myself remaining positive and I was doing a lot of crying this week about Monkee's anemia situation. She said that Monkee's has a really strong life-force and he looks really good and I need to stay positive because the blood transfusion will buy more time for her remedies to work. I asked about reversal of the anemia and asked her to look at the records of the blood results from his CBC on Tuesday at Dr. Daley's. I asked if she could tell if he had regenerative or nonregenerative anemia based on those. She said his regenerative values were all within the normal limits, but that no, she couldn't tell from the blood results. However, she told me if the anemia is brought on by the chemo, it's usually regenerative (and can thus be reversed); if the anemia is brought on by his actual Feline Leukemia, it's usually nonregenerative (and usually irreversible). I said, I guess that is why Dr. Daley talked about doing the bone marrow biopsy, because that would be the only way to really examine the marrow and be able to tell what is going on with the RBC, right?Dr. Maier said yes. I said, of course, we aren't doing a bone marrow biopsy, but now I FINALLY have a better understanding of what is going on. I know Dr. Daley is a good Vet, she's just so clinical, and soo cerebral that I don't think she explains things the way I need things explained to me. And it's not that I am dumb, it's just that this is my first FelV+ cat- and unlike her, I haven't been through this (sadly) a million times with other FelV+ cats. Also, when I am sitting there crying my eyes out at what she is saying to me, I really need her to slow down and talk to me like I am a dumb baby! So, I am kind of having an issue with that right now. Dr. Maier said that I can call her anytime to "bounce ideas off" of her or ask for clarification about something so I thought that was very refreshing. I have also put a call into Monkee's original Vet, Dr. Jones at the Cat Clinic of Louisville- for him to call me to discuss us returning to him for primary care since Monkee's main problem now is anemia and not cancer. I haven't heard from him yet. But his office is only 5 minutes away, so the stress on Monkee is decreased. Plus, he only treats cats and so the stress of the sound of dogs barking is also eliminated for Monkee. Dr. Jones just has a really good bedside manner that I think Monkee and I both really need right now. Dr. Maier suggested that I feed Monkee raw, lean hamburger meat and chicken livers to help his anemia. I was shocked because I am a vegetarian so I NEVER buy meat, much less handle it, but I had to suppress my disgust and do it for Monkee.Our first foray into this realm was traumatic- for me. The chicken livers really freaked me out. When I was cutting them up the first time, my legs got weak and my knees felt like they might buckle, but Monkee was sitting on the floor looking up at me licking his chops, so I had to pull through, so as not to faint and fall on top of him Needless to say, he LOVES it! I think I gave him too much last night- probably because I was losing my mind while cutting everything up- and I was worried that I overdid it and he couldn't eat it all, but he cleared his plate! The same this morning. It's hilarious to watch him eat the livers because, even though I have been coating the place with paper towels, he will pick up a piece and shake his head around to help break it up (like a dog) and he so he gets blood and liver "juice" (yuck) everywhere! I swear he's doing it just to freak me out! But he is so happy getting raw food, I think that, in and of itself, is going to increase his "life force" ten-fold! From:wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject:To Belinda: Re: Anemia IssuesDate:Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:46:49 -0700 (PDT)Hi Belinda,In response to your post below, I felt the need toclarify for Caroline's sake.Bailey's situationshould be considered a miracle in my book.As we haveseen too many times here, most cats do not respond asBailey did with that type of anemia; it claims thelives of many.While I do not wish to play a part intaking away Caroline's hope, I also want to becompletely upfront about non-regenerative anemia.Itcan be reversed, but not usually.I should have madethis statement earlier.So That being said, it may bewise to keep her kitty on Epogen considering Bailey'scase, as we never know when a situation might bereversed.Respectfully,Wendy--- Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everytime I hear this I post this, Bailey's anemia was non regenerative and we DID reverse it.and it is not a good anemia to have.It means the leukemia is probably active in the bone marrow, which is, as far as I know, irreversable. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
I know that it's not very common - but I did hear from two other people from anemia list who responded to epogen who had non-regenerative anemia but who was not a CRF kitty -- I have my kitty, ayumi who has non regenerative anemia with unknown cause is also suffering from anemia -- she was coping with anemial pretty well, until I started using epogen (though it seems to have worked for a tiny bit --), then she might have developed antibody reaction as her anemia got worse than before she started treatment -- so I stopped epogen therapy completely and she got her first transfusion -- my hope is that, after several weeks, antibody reaction will go away and her PCV will go back to where it was before the therapy... I do however, recommend due to antibody reaction possibility (up to 30% to 50% of cats in some study), using aranesp over epogen... and sometimes, it works among kitties who developed antiboy to epogen, and antibody reaction % is much less than epogen.. if I had researched a bit more regarding the real % of epogen, I would probably have used aranesp over epogen in a heartbeat.. as I feel that she never really got benefit of epogen, but it may have harmed her more -- aranesp is a bit more expensive.. but I am considering using it for ayumi soon. - Original Message - From: wendymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:46 AM Subject: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues Hi Belinda, In response to your post below, I felt the need to clarify for Caroline's sake. Bailey's situation should be considered a miracle in my book. As we have seen too many times here, most cats do not respond as Bailey did with that type of anemia; it claims the lives of many. While I do not wish to play a part in taking away Caroline's hope, I also want to be completely upfront about non-regenerative anemia. It can be reversed, but not usually. I should have made this statement earlier. So That being said, it may be wise to keep her kitty on Epogen considering Bailey's case, as we never know when a situation might be reversed. Respectfully, Wendy --- Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everytime I hear this I post this, Bailey's anemia was non regenerative and we DID reverse it. and it is not a good anemia to have. It means the leukemia is probably active in the bone marrow, which is, as far as I know, irreversable. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.comhttp://bemikitties.com/ Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.comhttp://adopt.bemikitties.com/ FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/clshttp://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.comhttp://hostdesign4u.com/ BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.comhttp://bmk.bemikitties.com/ Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
I am in a very similar boat, Caroline - please stay positive - my first every rescued kitty, ayumi whom I brought from Japan, is fighting against anemial.. like Monkee -- she is not clinically ill, but her PCV went down to 8 last week and she had her first tansfusion -- unless there is a huge treatment difference, please don't put him go through bone marrow biopsy -- that's very stressful for him. I suggested in my previuos email.. but please consdier aranesp for anemia teatment. and you might be already, but if you are not, please join feline anemia list as there are lots of people with experience there as well. - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmannmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 9:17 AM Subject: RE: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues I talked to Dr. Susan Maier (holistic) yesterday. I was having a lot of trouble myself remaining positive and I was doing a lot of crying this week about Monkee's anemia situation. She said that Monkee's has a really strong life-force and he looks really good and I need to stay positive because the blood transfusion will buy more time for her remedies to work. I asked about reversal of the anemia and asked her to look at the records of the blood results from his CBC on Tuesday at Dr. Daley's. I asked if she could tell if he had regenerative or nonregenerative anemia based on those. She said his regenerative values were all within the normal limits, but that no, she couldn't tell from the blood results. However, she told me if the anemia is brought on by the chemo, it's usually regenerative (and can thus be reversed); if the anemia is brought on by his actual Feline Leukemia, it's usually nonregenerative (and usually irreversible). I said, I guess that is why Dr. Daley talked about doing the bone marrow biopsy, because that would be the only way to really examine the marrow and be able to tell what is going on with the RBC, right? Dr. Maier said yes. I said, of course, we aren't doing a bone marrow biopsy, but now I FINALLY have a better understanding of what is going on. I know Dr. Daley is a good Vet, she's just so clinical, and soo cerebral that I don't think she explains things the way I need things explained to me. And it's not that I am dumb, it's just that this is my first FelV+ cat- and unlike her, I haven't been through this (sadly) a million times with other FelV+ cats. Also, when I am sitting there crying my eyes out at what she is saying to me, I really need her to slow down and talk to me like I am a dumb baby! So, I am kind of having an issue with that right now. Dr. Maier said that I can call her anytime to bounce ideas off of her or ask for clarification about something so I thought that was very refreshing. I have also put a call into Monkee's original Vet, Dr. Jones at the Cat Clinic of Louisville- for him to call me to discuss us returning to him for primary care since Monkee's main problem now is anemia and not cancer. I haven't heard from him yet. But his office is only 5 minutes away, so the stress on Monkee is decreased. Plus, he only treats cats and so the stress of the sound of dogs barking is also eliminated for Monkee. Dr. Jones just has a really good bedside manner that I think Monkee and I both really need right now. Dr. Maier suggested that I feed Monkee raw, lean hamburger meat and chicken livers to help his anemia. I was shocked because I am a vegetarian so I NEVER buy meat, much less handle it, but I had to suppress my disgust and do it for Monkee. Our first foray into this realm was traumatic- for me. The chicken livers really freaked me out. When I was cutting them up the first time, my legs got weak and my knees felt like they might buckle, but Monkee was sitting on the floor looking up at me licking his chops, so I had to pull through, so as not to faint and fall on top of him Needless to say, he LOVES it! I think I gave him too much last night- probably because I was losing my mind while cutting everything up- and I was worried that I overdid it and he couldn't eat it all, but he cleared his plate! The same this morning. It's hilarious to watch him eat the livers because, even though I have been coating the place with paper towels, he will pick up a piece and shake his head around to help break it up (like a dog) and he so he gets blood and liver juice (yuck) everywhere! I swear he's doing it just to freak me out! But he is so happy getting raw food, I think that, in and of itself, is going to increase his life force ten-fold! From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
yikes... Dr. Daley may not be familiar with how epogen works, Caroline-- how long ago did Monkee get an epogen? It usually takes two to three weeks for epogen to show any effect --the meantime, his PCV will continue to go down.. but you don't know yet if he was only give a week ago, again, since he is not sure whether epogen works or not, I would so very much recommend that you switch to aranesp from epogen.. again 30% to 50% of cats will develop antibody, once it does, epogen will destroy human erytheipoten (produced by epogen) as well as natural erytheiopoeitn that Monkee produces on his own, and his anemia will become more severe, and it will take two months to a year before antibody reactions goes away from his body --the meantime, you have to give him multiple transfusion to tie his life.. I am advising this to you, that's exactly what happened to ayumi and I regeret that I did not use aranesep -- aranesp works a similar way to epogen, but much less possibility of him getting antibody reactions - lots of vet schools now uses aranesp over epogen due to the risk mentioned earilier. This antibody reaction can be fatal. Epogen needs to be injected in cats three times a week initially and you need to monitor his PCV weekly and also his BP, epogen will cause high BP in cats (hypertension) and will cause a cat to be blind.. my hannibal became blind after one week therapy of epogen due to high BP -- make sure you check his BP now and regularly during epogen therapy, anything over 150 to 160 is high, and he needs to be on norvasc to control hypertension. and pay attention to his pupils to make sure that it does not look dilated.. if it does, you need to take him to emergency to get norvasc, as there is a chance to reversre blindess if you catch it with in 24 to 48 hours or so. thank you. Hideyo - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmannmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues Monkee only had one week's treatment of Epogen. Dr. Daley didn't say anything about continuing Epogen or trying a second dose. When I asked on Tues. if the Epogen helped him at all, she said no, because his red blood cell count was actually lower. So, I don't know if we should try it again (meaning, if I should ASK for Monkee to be able to try it again)? I was also not instructed as to whether or not we should re-start his 7-days-on of Interferon, which would start today? I put a call into Dr. Daley yesterday about that and haven't heard back yet. From: HIDEYO YAMAMOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:03:12 -0600 I know that it's not very common - but I did hear from two other people from anemia list who responded to epogen who had non-regenerative anemia but who was not a CRF kitty -- I have my kitty, ayumi who has non regenerative anemia with unknown cause is also suffering from anemia -- she was coping with anemial pretty well, until I started using epogen (though it seems to have worked for a tiny bit --), then she might have developed antibody reaction as her anemia got worse than before she started treatment -- so I stopped epogen therapy completely and she got her first transfusion -- my hope is that, after several weeks, antibody reaction will go away and her PCV will go back to where it was before the therapy... I do however, recommend due to antibody reaction possibility (up to 30% to 50% of cats in some study), using aranesp over epogen... and sometimes, it works among kitties who developed antiboy to epogen, and antibody reaction % is much less than epogen.. if I had researched a bit more regarding the real % of epogen, I would probably have used aranesp over epogen in a heartbeat.. as I feel that she never really got benefit of epogen, but it may have harmed her more -- aranesp is a bit more expensive.. but I am considering using it for ayumi soon. - Original Message - From: wendymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:46 AM Subject: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues Hi Belinda, In response to your post below, I felt the need to clarify for Caroline's sake. Bailey's situation should be considered a miracle in my book. As we have seen too many times here, most cats do not respond as Bailey did with that type of anemia; it claims the lives of many. While I do not wish to play a part in taking away Caroline's hope, I also want to be completely upfront about non-regenerative anemia. It can be reversed
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Monkee only had one week's treatment of Epogen. Dr. Daley didn't say anything about continuing Epogen or trying a second dose. When I asked on Tues. if the Epogen helped him at all, she said no, because his red blood cell count was actually lower. So, I don't know if we should try it again (meaning, if I should ASK for Monkee to be able to try it again)? I was also not instructed as to whether or not we should re-start his 7-days-on of Interferon, which would start today? I put a call into Dr. Daley yesterday about that and haven't heard back yet. From: "HIDEYO YAMAMOTO" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia IssuesDate: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:03:12 -0600 Iknow that it's not very common - but I did hear from two other peoplefrom anemia list who responded to epogen who had non-regenerative anemia but who was not a CRF kitty -- I have my kitty, ayumi who has non regenerative anemia with unknown cause is also suffering from anemia -- she was coping with anemial pretty well, until I started using epogen (though it seems to have worked for a tiny bit --), then she might have developed antibody reaction as her anemia got worse than before she started treatment -- so I stopped epogen therapy completely and she got her first transfusion -- my hope is that, after several weeks, antibody reaction will go away and her PCV will go back to where it was before the therapy... I do however, recommend due to antibody reaction possibility (up to 30% to 50% of cats in some study), using aranesp over epogen... and sometimes, it works among kitties who developed antiboy to epogen, and antibody reaction % is much less than epogen.. if I had researched a bit more regarding the real % of epogen, I would probably have used aranesp over epogen in a heartbeat.. as I feel that she never really got benefit of epogen, but it may have harmed her more -- aranesp is a bit more expensive.. but I am considering using it for ayumi soon. - Original Message - From: wendy To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:46 AM Subject: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues Hi Belinda,In response to your post below, I felt the need toclarify for Caroline's sake. Bailey's situationshould be considered a miracle in my book. As we haveseen too many times here, most cats do not respond asBailey did with that type of anemia; it claims thelives of many. While I do not wish to play a part intaking away Caroline's hope, I also want to becompletely upfront about non-regenerative anemia. Itcan be reversed, but not usually. I should have madethis statement earlier. So That being said, it may bewise to keep her kitty on Epogen considering Bailey'scase, as we never know when a situation might bereversed.Respectfully,Wendy--- Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everytime I hear this I post this, Bailey's anemia was non regenerative and we DID reverse it. and it is not a good anemia to have. It means the leukemia is probably active in the bone marrow, which is, as far as I know, irreversable. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. Its free.
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Epogen should be given 3 times a week to start *one dose will do nothing*, It sounds like your vet isn't familiar with how to use epogen. It should be given 3 times a week and ONLY once the cat is in the normal range should that number be lowered. Bailey got it 3 times a week for about 8 weeks, then it went to twice a week for a few weeks and then we went to once a week. He was still getting it once a week when he passed from cancer. He had been getting it for about 5 months and his HCT was still normal at 33% when the cancer took him. Like I said *almost ALL* cats will have a drop in their HCT when they start epogen for the first 2 to 5 weeks, it can take 2 to 5 weeks to work, average is 2 or 3 weeks for it to kick in and in that time the HCT almost always drops, many vets will stop the epogen at that point thinking it's an antiboby reaction. But I do know of a cat that took over 5 weeks and the standard starting dose wasn't enough for this cat, luckily her vet figured it out and upped the dose, the cat reversed it's anemia. Another cat I know on the feline lymphoma list who had CRF related anemia problems along with his cancer lived 2 years on epogen before the cancer came out of remission for a 3rd time and took him. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
I am going to talk to Monkee's regular vet (Dr. Jones) about this because I am worried. And I don't like how I was pretty much told to give up on a cat that doesn't look clinically sick! What dying cat eats a human-sized portion of raw hamburger meat and chicken livers (with gusto!)?! And has enough energy to rip the chicken livers to shreds! Come on! Thanks for your insight- both of you. I didn't know there was a feline anemia list serve. I will try that too... -Caroline From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia IssuesDate: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:20:45 -0700  Epogen should be given 3 times a week to start one dose will do nothing, It sounds like your vet isn't familiar with how to use epogen. It should be given 3 times a week and ONLY once the cat is in the normal range should that number be lowered. Bailey got it 3 times a week for about 8 weeks, then it went to twice a week for a few weeks and then we went to once a week. He was still getting it once a week when he passed from cancer. He had been getting it for about 5 months and his HCT was still normal at 33% when the cancer took him.Like I said almost ALL cats will have a drop in their HCT when they start epogen for the first 2 to 5 weeks, it can take 2 to 5 weeks to work, average is 2 or 3 weeks for it to kick in and in that time the HCT almost always drops, many vets will stop the epogen at that point thinking it's an antiboby reaction. But I do know of a cat that took over 5 weeks and the standard starting dose wasn't enough for this cat, luckily her vet figured it out and upped the dose, the cat reversed it's anemia.Another cat I know on the feline lymphoma list who had CRF related anemia problems along with his cancer lived 2 years on epogen before the cancer came out of remission for a 3rd time and took him.-- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. Its free.
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Yes, please please see another vet -- how insulting-- Ayumi is very much the same -- she jumps and eat and she is not clinically ill!! I have heard kitties who were anemic and clinically ill - and I thought anemia killed them -- but now looking at Ayumi, there must be something else besides anemia that killed my babies because PCV 8, and Ayumi does not look ill --- I am so glad that you are not letting this stupid vet convince you about what he is saying --- don't give up, Caroline.. let's fight together for both Monkee and Ayumi.. - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmannmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 11:51 AM Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues I am going to talk to Monkee's regular vet (Dr. Jones) about this because I am worried. And I don't like how I was pretty much told to give up on a cat that doesn't look clinically sick! What dying cat eats a human-sized portion of raw hamburger meat and chicken livers (with gusto!)?! And has enough energy to rip the chicken livers to shreds! Come on! Thanks for your insight- both of you. I didn't know there was a feline anemia list serve. I will try that too... -Caroline From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:20:45 -0700        Epogen should be given 3 times a week to start one dose will do nothing, It sounds like your vet isn't familiar with how to use epogen. It should be given 3 times a week and ONLY once the cat is in the normal range should that number be lowered. Bailey got it 3 times a week for about 8 weeks, then it went to twice a week for a few weeks and then we went to once a week. He was still getting it once a week when he passed from cancer. He had been getting it for about 5 months and his HCT was still normal at 33% when the cancer took him. Like I said almost ALL cats will have a drop in their HCT when they start epogen for the first 2 to 5 weeks, it can take 2 to 5 weeks to work, average is 2 or 3 weeks for it to kick in and in that time the HCT almost always drops, many vets will stop the epogen at that point thinking it's an antiboby reaction. But I do know of a cat that took over 5 weeks and the standard starting dose wasn't enough for this cat, luckily her vet figured it out and upped the dose, the cat reversed it's anemia. Another cat I know on the feline lymphoma list who had CRF related anemia problems along with his cancer lived 2 years on epogen before the cancer came out of remission for a 3rd time and took him. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.comhttp://bemikitties.com/ Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.comhttp://adopt.bemikitties.com/ FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/clshttp://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.comhttp://hostdesign4u.com/ BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.comhttp://bmk.bemikitties.com/ -- Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i'm Initiative now. It's free.http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2755??PS=47575 Emoticon1.gif
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
PS. If it were me I would either find a vet who knows how to work with epogen or ask your vet to research it, or take research you've done to him and ask him to work with you. Along with the epogen a cat should be getting blood builders, nutrived is a good source for this. It has the iron, vitamin b needed to build blood. Fred's HCT got as low as 24% and the nutrived got him back up to 30%. Nutrived wouldn't be enough for a cat with an HCT of 18% or less. I can't remember what is Monkee's HCT? PS. Bailey had the bone marrow aspirate and that is why we very strongly suspected cancer somewhere. He had Myloid Dysplastic (basically there were pre-cancerous cells there). We did every test we could think of and couldn't find the cancer, even after we got his HCT to normal, he had no energy and wouldn't eat. He succumbed to pancreatic cancer which we found after he passed with a necropsy. I suspected his pancreas was involved because he always was uncomfortable when I fed him through his feeding tube. He was on high doses of prednisolone and was getting doxy just incase his hemobartonella test was a false negative. The pred and the epo are what got his HCT back to normal and stopped the bone marrow surpression by the virus. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
again 30% to 50% of cats will develop antibody, I believe this is a very high estimate, where did you get this number Hideyo?? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Hideyo, We both belong to the amenia list and the number when considering how many cats on the list have been on it is nowhere near that high. I have never seen this number anywhere, I have seen 30% quoted but many vets who regularly work with epogen have said in their experience the number is closer to 10%, where are you getting these numbers??? again 30% to 50% of cats will develop antibody, -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Monkee's HCT was 13% two weeks ago (when we first went to the Vet because I knew something was wrong). That was on a Tuesday. They gave him .3 of Epogen and sent me home with a tiny bottle to give him sub-cu injections of Epogen that Thurs, and Sat. They increased his predisone (which was 5 mg- I think? the little, small pills), every other day, to one every day; his Vet also added the appetite stimulant, 1/2 a pill twice a day. We did the week of Epogen, went back this Tues. and that is when his HCT count was 10% and his Vet told us the options (marrow biopsy, transfusion, etc). We did the blood transfusion on Wed. and they said after it, his count was up to 15%. The instructions were to just continue the pred and the appetite stim. Nothing was said about the Interferon or Epogen and I was too out of it to ask because I was so shocked by the bill from the transfusion (and all I could think was that we can't afford another one). He was, what I call "Super Monkee" (it speaks for itself) on Wed., after the transfusion. But since then, he's gone down a little bit (not with eating though); but he's defintely less Super Monkee, and he's less bright-eyed. But he is still sleeping better- actual sound sleeping, as opposed to the justlaying there and staring into space "sleeping." I have printed your emails and I filed them in "Monkee's Care Binder"- that I have organized with ALL his information and ithas dividers and everything. I am going to ask questions from the emails when a Vet ever calls me back! But I decided I need to bring some MAJOR organization to caring for Monkee if I want to do this right, hence the binder! I highly suggest this to anyone who isn't already doing something similar. I take The MonkeeBinder with me everywhere. -Caroline From:Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject:Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia IssuesDate:Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:22:31 -0700PS.If it were me I would either find a vet who knows how to work with epogen or ask your vet to research it, or take research you've done to him and ask him to work with you.Along with the epogen a cat should be getting blood builders, nutrived is a good source for this.It has the iron, vitamin b needed to build blood.Fred's HCT got as low as 24% and the nutrived got him back up to 30%.Nutrived wouldn't be enough for a cat with an HCT of 18% or less.I can't remember what is Monkee's HCT?PS.Bailey had the bone marrow aspirate and that is why we very strongly suspected cancer somewhere.He had Myloid Dysplastic (basically there were pre-cancerous cells there).We did every test we could think of and couldn't find the cancer, even after we got his HCT to normal, he had no energy and wouldn't eat. He succumbed to pancreatic cancer which we found after he passed with a necropsy. I suspected his pancreas was involved because he always was uncomfortable when I fed him through his feeding tube.He was on high doses of prednisolone and was getting doxy just incase his hemobartonella test was a false negative.The pred and the epo are what got his HCT back to normal and stopped the bone marrow surpression by the virus.--Belindahappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kittieshttp://bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.comBMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.com Picture this share your photos and you could win big!
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Hi, Belinda, I posted it on anemia list, I think - but here's the extract from marvistavet site -- In one study 2 out of 3 dogs treated for more than 90 days with human erythropoietin and 5 out of 7 cats treated for more than 180 days with human erythropoietin developed refractory anemia due to anti-erythropoietin antibodies. A more commonly reported statistic is a 30% incidence in development of refractory anemia. After discontinuing erythropoietin, antibodies wane over 2-12 months and the red cell count returns to its pre-treatment level. Blood transfusions may be needed to keep the patient alive during this time. here's the link http://www.marvistavet.com/html/erythropoietin.htmlhttp://www.marvistavet.com/html/erythropoietin.html And Dr. kathy who participated in this study 1998 quoted as follows; Having worked on the Amgen-sponsored clinical trial of Epogen in cats I can clearly say that no, not all cats get antibodies to human-recombinant erythropoietin. Based on the clinical trial, the % varied a little between Ohio State, UC-Davis, and U of MN patients, but it is about 1/3. Because the antibodies, if they form, are cross-reactive to the cat's own endogenous erythropoietin, they are very serious and the anemia that result will be severe (generally requiring multiple transfusions) until the antibodies wear off. We've had cats on Epogen for over 2 years without antibodies, so I think the majorty of cats' immune systems never recognize it as foreign. So, 30% came from 1/3, I believe. I had started on epogen on Ayumi thinking that 5 to 10% stas which is not that bad.. but if I had known that the stats could be as high as 30% - I would have thought more about using epogen, but instead I would have used aranesp instead. __._,_.___ - Original Message - From: Belindamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 12:44 PM Subject: Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues again 30% to 50% of cats will develop antibody, I believe this is a very high estimate, where did you get this number Hideyo?? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.comhttp://bemikitties.com/ Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.comhttp://adopt.bemikitties.com/ FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/clshttp://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.comhttp://hostdesign4u.com/ BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.comhttp://bmk.bemikitties.com/
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Bailey was getting 20mg of pred, 10 twice a day to start once his hct was normal again we weaned him down over the course of several weeks, he was getting 2.5mgs a day when he passed. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: To Belinda: Re: Anemia Issues
Wow that is really interesting because the number of list cats in the anemia group don't support anywhere near that number. I'll have to do some more research on that. Thank you Hideyo. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Belinda ...Giardia information
Thanks very much for the research on Giardia. My vet has sent us Panacur as the Metronidazole did not work and she (MeMe) could not tolerate Drontal. We're taking all the recommended precautions to prevent transmission. It is a really difficult one. I appreciate the time you spent on getting us this information. Jane
Re: Belinda ...Giardia information
FYI, I started using Panacur late last year, I think it was, with a couple of kitties with loose stool and l really ilke it. I didn't have any problem with transmission. Didn't do anything extraordinary, just kept the litter boxes clean. Gloria On Jun 6, 2007, at 7:06 AM, Jane Lyons wrote: Thanks very much for the research on Giardia. My vet has sent us Panacur as the Metronidazole did not work and she (MeMe) could not tolerate Drontal. We're taking all the recommended precautions to prevent transmission. It is a really difficult one. I appreciate the time you spent on getting us this information. Jane
Re: Belinda ...Giardia information
Jane, I just hope she can get over the giardia without too much problem. Prayers for it to work right away and MeMe to start feeling better. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: kitty not eating (Fred - Belinda)
He's a miracle boy all right! Wonderful news. Sending you two power energy to continue to work those miracles. Thanks for the inspiration. Ain't it amazing what love and care can do?? Did you mention to Fred that he had to gain weight or you'd be forced to put the tube in again? I'm so pleased! Nina wendy wrote: I second that! Way to go Fred! So happy to hear this information Belinda. :) Wendy --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow Belinda, I am SO happy Fred is doing so well! He's had a remarkable recovery after that terrible infection he developed. I'm so glad to hear he's doing so well now! Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources
Re: kitty not eating (Fred - Belinda)
Nina, Yes I did and I think the appetite stimulant is helping alot. He is suppose to get it today but I think I'll skip it and see how he does. It won't hurt to not give it, it isn't the kind that needs to build up, it worked within twenty minutes, maybe less the very first time he got it. I also think he likes chicken home cooked right now, but we all know how picky cats can be. I should get one of the cook books I ordered Friday or for sure by next Monday so I can make a variety, so far it's been the same recipe each time pretty much. Although I did add rice this last time. Getting the texture down is the hardest part. Did you mention to Fred that he had to gain weight or you'd be forced to put the tube in again? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: kitty not eating (Fred - Belinda)
You and me both! Wow Belinda, I am SO happy Fred is doing so well! He's had a remarkable recovery after that terrible infection he developed. I'm so glad to hear he's doing so well now! -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: kitty not eating (Fred - Belinda)
I second that! Way to go Fred! So happy to hear this information Belinda. :) Wendy --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow Belinda, I am SO happy Fred is doing so well! He's had a remarkable recovery after that terrible infection he developed. I'm so glad to hear he's doing so well now! Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: kitty not eating (Fred - Belinda)
Wow Belinda, I am SO happy Fred is doing so well! He's had a remarkable recovery after that terrible infection he developed. I'm so glad to hear he's doing so well now! Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources
Re: follow-up point! thanks belinda! Re: an important reminder - sorry, kinda long:)
No apologies necessary, dearie. You and your furkids are so lucky to have such great resources. Taylor Scobie Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Apr 19, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Barb Moermond wrote: My sincerest apologies my dear friends!!! I keep forgetting that not everyone is as lucky as I am. I am incredibly spoiled by the vets I have and their dedication to continuing education and openness to the information I’ve given them from the list. I was speaking from the ideal in my head that all vets are like mine and that vets, having the lengthy education they have, are (supposed to be) equipped to evaluate different therapies and treatments and studies and then be able to make an educated, informed decision WITH the owner as to treatment. Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. - Anonymous - Original Message From: Moermond, Barb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:32:12 PM Subject: an important reminder - sorry, kinda long:) Hey gang, I've noticed some potentially disturbing trends in how information is being presented to the list as a whole; both with various treatments and external resources. I think that the first thing we need to remember is that we are here to help each other and share experiences with the possibility of our past experiences providing more information for a new FeLV+ parent to have in their decision-making arsenal. With the high emotions that come with the territory, sometimes the words that appear on the screen aren't read with the spirit they were written - we're all human and should try not to be condemning of a person dealing with these difficult issues who makes decisions that WE, in all our vast knowledge and skill, would NOT have made. Ultimately, we have to remember that it is each of us individually who has responsibility for his/her own furkid - we're not raising horses (camels!) by committee here ya know. The asking for additional information (experience etc) and advice is NOT a request for the list to make the decision (not that every/anyone posts that way as a rule, but you know what I mean)!! I think that the most important thing this list has done over the years is create this amazing e-family. My Ninja passed in 1998 and my boys are negative and I am still here because I love you guys! AND to share if anything Ninja and I lived through could help someone else. We need to SAY that X is what we tried and it worked for us as opposed to saying X WORKS! We all know that every kit is different and what works for one won't for another and, as with mixing, it has to work for the whole family. For those of us who have dealt withFeLV in the past or have been living with it for a time, we may forget how terrifying the diagnosis can be and how poorly we were initially filtering information. If it isn't said in as many words, personal opinion and experience can be read as FACT and that's not fair to thenewbies. Especially considering that WE ARE NOT VETERINARIANS!!! I remember when I first found out Ninja's positive status and I was DEVASTATED. But I found this list. I found a vet whose own cat was positive. I did a TON of research, but not everybody thinks to do that or can filter through the panic. Because we have experience, we can let newbies know, hey, this is a possible treatment oh, you live in X, I've heard great things about this clinic there etc. But we should also remind everyone (especially new people) that they need to do their own research outside this list and figure out what makes the most sense to them - regardless of what everyone's OPINIONS on here are. Many topics come up that have been covered in great detail in the archives!! Searching the archives for additional information on any number of topics related to our FeLV+ kits should be one of the first things we do - newbies and oldies both. There is a wealth of experience and information available through this group and its members. Also, knowing what an amazing medium of communication the internet is, we have to be particularly careful in what we are saying about external resources, be they shelters or hospitals or clinics or rescue organizations or specific vets etc etc. Negative comments especially need to be framed in the this is MY experience with WXY as opposed to OMG DID YOU HEAR WHAT THEY DO AT WXY AND IT'S THEIR POLICY. So let's all remember to share personal opinion and experience as such. e.g. we tried X and... y didn't work for us, but z did wxy was really helpful (or not) to me when I called for info Further, deponent sayeth not. We now return to your regularly scheduled list-serve.
follow-up point! thanks belinda! Re: an important reminder - sorry, kinda long:)
My sincerest apologies my dear friends!!! I keep forgetting that not everyone is as lucky as I am. I am incredibly spoiled by the vets I have and their dedication to continuing education and openness to the information I’ve given them from the list. I was speaking from the ideal in my head that all vets are like mine and that vets, having the lengthy education they have, are (supposed to be) equipped to evaluate different therapies and treatments and studies and then be able to make an educated, informed decision WITH the owner as to treatment. Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. - Anonymous - Original Message From: Moermond, Barb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:32:12 PM Subject: an important reminder - sorry, kinda long:) Hey gang, I've noticed some potentially disturbing trends in how information is being presented to the list as a whole; both with various treatments and external resources. I think that the first thing we need to remember is that we are here to help each other and share experiences with the possibility of our past experiences providing more information for a new FeLV+ parent to have in their decision-making arsenal. With the high emotions that come with the territory, sometimes the words that appear on the screen aren't read with the spirit they were written - we're all human and should try not to be condemning of a person dealing with these difficult issues who makes decisions that WE, in all our vast knowledge and skill, would NOT have made. Ultimately, we have to remember that it is each of us individually who has responsibility for his/her own furkid - we're not raising horses (camels!) by committee here ya know. The asking for additional information (experience etc) and advice is NOT a request for the list to make the decision (not that every/anyone posts that way as a rule, but you know what I mean)!! I think that the most important thing this list has done over the years is create this amazing e-family. My Ninja passed in 1998 and my boys are negative and I am still here because I love you guys! AND to share if anything Ninja and I lived through could help someone else. We need to SAY that X is what we tried and it worked for us as opposed to saying X WORKS! We all know that every kit is different and what works for one won't for another and, as with mixing, it has to work for the whole family. For those of us who have dealt with FeLV in the past or have been living with it for a time, we may forget how terrifying the diagnosis can be and how poorly we were initially filtering information. If it isn't said in as many words, personal opinion and experience can be read as FACT and that's not fair to the newbies. Especially considering that WE ARE NOT VETERINARIANS!!! I remember when I first found out Ninja's positive status and I was DEVASTATED. But I found this list. I found a vet whose own cat was positive. I did a TON of research, but not everybody thinks to do that or can filter through the panic. Because we have experience, we can let newbies know, hey, this is a possible treatment oh, you live in X, I've heard great things about this clinic there etc. But we should also remind everyone (especially new people) that they need to do their own research outside this list and figure out what makes the most sense to them - regardless of what everyone's OPINIONS on here are. Many topics come up that have been covered in great detail in the archives!! Searching the archives for additional information on any number of topics related to our FeLV+ kits should be one of the first things we do - newbies and oldies both. There is a wealth of experience and information available through this group and its members. Also, knowing what an amazing medium of communication the internet is, we have to be particularly careful in what we are saying about external resources, be they shelters or hospitals or clinics or rescue organizations or specific vets etc etc. Negative comments especially need to be framed in the this is MY experience with WXY as opposed to OMG DID YOU HEAR WHAT THEY DO AT WXY AND IT'S THEIR POLICY. So let's all remember to share personal opinion and experience as such. e.g. we tried X and... y didn't work for us, but z did wxy was really helpful (or not) to me when I called for info Further, deponent sayeth not. We now return to your regularly scheduled list-serve. - Barb Moermond - We don't need lists of rights and wrongs, tables of do's and don'ts: we need books, time, and silence. - Philip Pullman
Re: follow-up point! thanks belinda! Re: an important reminder - sorry, kinda long:)
Barb, I don't think you need to apologize. You made some good points! Whether someone has access to a good vet or not -- it is always good to do your own research. I appreciated your post. We all get carried away sometimes - I know I do. No apology needed. elizabeth On 4/19/07, Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My sincerest apologies my dear friends!!! I keep forgetting that not everyone is as lucky as I am. I am *incredibly * spoiled by the vets I have and their dedication to continuing education and openness to the information I've given them from the list. I was speaking from the ideal in my head that all vets are like mine and that vets, having the lengthy education they have, are (supposed to be) equipped to evaluate different therapies and treatments and studies and then be able to make an educated, informed decision WITH the owner as to treatment. Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. - Anonymous - Original Message From: Moermond, Barb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:32:12 PM Subject: an important reminder - sorry, kinda long:) Hey gang, I've noticed some potentially disturbing trends in how information is being presented to the list as a whole; both with various treatments and external resources. I think that the first thing we need to remember is that we are here to help each other and share experiences with the possibility of our past experiences providing more information for a new FeLV+ parent to have in their decision-making arsenal. With the high emotions that come with the territory, sometimes the words that appear on the screen aren't read with the spirit they were written - we're all human and should try not to be condemning of a person dealing with these difficult issues who makes decisions that WE, in all our vast knowledge and skill, would NOT have made. Ultimately, we have to remember that it is each of us individually who has responsibility for his/her own furkid - we're not raising horses (camels!) by committee here ya know. The asking for additional information (experience etc) and advice is NOT a request for the list to make the decision (not that every/anyone posts that way as a rule, but you know what I mean)!! I think that the most important thing this list has done over the years is create this amazing e-family. My Ninja passed in 1998 and my boys are negative and I am still here because I love you guys! AND to share if anything Ninja and I lived through could help someone else. We need to SAY that X is what we tried and it worked for us as opposed to saying X WORKS! We all know that every kit is different and what works for one won't for another and, as with mixing, it has to work for the whole family. For those of us who have dealt with FeLV in the past or have been living with it for a time, we may forget how terrifying the diagnosis can be and how poorly we were initially filtering information. If it isn't said in as many words, personal opinion and experience can be read as FACT and that's not fair to the newbies. Especially considering that *WE ARE NOT VETERINARIANS!!!* I remember when I first found out Ninja's positive status and I was DEVASTATED. But I found this list. I found a vet whose own cat was positive. I did a TON of research, but not everybody thinks to do that or can filter through the panic. Because we have experience, we can let newbies know, hey, this is a possible treatment oh, you live in X, I've heard great things about this clinic there etc. But we should also remind everyone (especially new people) that they need to do their own research outside this list and figure out what makes the most sense to them - regardless of what everyone's OPINIONS on here are. Many topics come up that have been covered in great detail in the archives!! Searching the archives for additional information on any number of topics related to our FeLV+ kits should be one of the first things we do - newbies and oldies both. There is a wealth of experience and information available through this group and its members. Also, knowing what an amazing medium of communication the internet is, we have to be particularly careful in what we are saying about external resources, be they shelters or hospitals or clinics or rescue organizations or specific vets etc etc. Negative comments especially need to be framed in the this is MY experience with WXY as opposed to OMG DID YOU HEAR WHAT THEY DO AT WXY AND IT'S THEIR *POLICY*. So let's all remember to share personal opinion and experience as such. e.g. we tried X and... y didn't work for us, but z did wxy was really helpful (or not) to me when I called for info Further, deponent sayeth not. We now return to your regularly scheduled list-serve.
Re: To Belinda: Re: Fred Update
Belinda, I'm so sorry that Fred isn't doing so well with eating. That's so stressful (for us). I will be interested to read what the vet list posts about potassium. :) Wendy --- Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Wendy, Sorry for your troubles with Julie. I am almost positive my vet told me when I was in there 2 days ago that when giving oral potassium any they don't need is discarded through their urine which I had never heard before. I posted this question on the vet list I'm on but haven't gotten a reply yet, I'll let you know soon as I do. I do know my other vet told me not to worry about the other cats eating Fred's food with the potassium in it, so who knows. I was worried about that too. Fred is not doing good today, he isn't eating at all and he vomited about 4 hours after he got his meds this morning. He hasn't eaten anything since. I just gave him some pepcid, I have to give him his clavamox at 9PM so I guess I'll have to syringe feed him enough to coat his tummy, we have to get rid of that infection. Looks like as soon as we can, we'll be doing another tube since Fred isn't cooperating. His kidney values are all almost back to normal, I will not sit by and let him slowly starve to death or worse yet get hepatic lipidosis. It's his choice, eat on his own or get a tube so I won't feel bad about it. I'm will assist feed but I've never been good at it so in the 2 or 3 weeks we have to wait before we can do another tube he'll probably be in horrible shape again, that's what upsets me so. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world: Indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail QA for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396546091
To Belinda: Re: Fred Update
Hey Belinda, I called my vet yesterday to ask if he thought that I should start adding potassium to Julie's subQ fluids. She is hyperT, and gets Tapazole/Meth. compounded 2x per day. Her back legs are pretty weak, and after reading about Fred's weak back legs, and that you are supplementing him with potassium, I called to check with my vet. He said not to do that because potassium overdoses are serious and happen often, and that we'd have to take her blood all the time to check the potassium levels. I don't think he looked at her potassium numbers though. My questions are these: 1) When I go home tonight to check her numbers off the last bloodwork she had, which number am I looking for? Is potassium pk? 2) If her numbers are low, do you think it would be wise for me to supplement some considering the weakness in her hind legs? I do agree that I don't want to take her blood more than we already are, about every four months. She's so old and small. 3) If I do supplement, where do I get potassium and how much should I do? Thanks for your advice, Julie and I really appreciate it, :) Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world: Indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Re: To Belinda: Re: Fred Update
Hi Wendy, Sorry for your troubles with Julie. I am almost positive my vet told me when I was in there 2 days ago that when giving oral potassium any they don't need is discarded through their urine which I had never heard before. I posted this question on the vet list I'm on but haven't gotten a reply yet, I'll let you know soon as I do. I do know my other vet told me not to worry about the other cats eating Fred's food with the potassium in it, so who knows. I was worried about that too. Fred is not doing good today, he isn't eating at all and he vomited about 4 hours after he got his meds this morning. He hasn't eaten anything since. I just gave him some pepcid, I have to give him his clavamox at 9PM so I guess I'll have to syringe feed him enough to coat his tummy, we have to get rid of that infection. Looks like as soon as we can, we'll be doing another tube since Fred isn't cooperating. His kidney values are all almost back to normal, I will not sit by and let him slowly starve to death or worse yet get hepatic lipidosis. It's his choice, eat on his own or get a tube so I won't feel bad about it. I'm will assist feed but I've never been good at it so in the 2 or 3 weeks we have to wait before we can do another tube he'll probably be in horrible shape again, that's what upsets me so. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: To Belinda: Re: Fred Update
Sorry Wendy should have read the whole email before I sent. I get the potassium gluconate at the local pharmacy, it's over the counter Nature Made brand and for 100, 550mg tablets it is $4.00 a bottle. Fred weighted 8lbs 9ozs when he started getting it and he was getting 1 and 1/4 tablet twice a day. His potassium got to the normal range 4.5, it was 3.8 when we started, while this is the low end of normal, it is too low for a CRF cat, they should be in the mid 4 range. After he was at 4.5, I lowered his dose to 3/4 tablet twice a day and he dropped back down to 3.8 again so for the last week or so he's been getting 1 and 1/2 tablet twice a day to try and get him up again, haven't done blood work yet to see where we are. * He is a page where it helps you figure what you need as far as a dose:* http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2r6qt/supplies/potassium.htm#PotassiumGluconate *Lots of info here, high phosphorus can also cause back end weakness:* http://www.felinecrf.org/symptoms.htm#minerals * More info:* http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments.htm#low_potassium That whole website is very informational. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Belinda, could you add Laura's Fax to the CLS please?
Hi Belinda--I just wrote to Laura (L. Johnson on our listserve) offlist as I'm way behind with my email and had said she was unsubscribing. Is it possible you could add her her Fax to the CLS (see below). He was put to sleep on February 14. Thanks very much, Kerry Hi Kerry Thanks so much for the kind words. If you want to add my kitty to the list, that would be nice. He came into my life as someone else's throw-away, but his life had great significance for me. His name was Fax. Embarrassing but true. When he showed up at the feeding station one night, he looked just like another feral cat I fed, like a 'fax' of the other cat. It was a goofy name that unfortunately stuck. I'm sorry I didn't give him a more regal name. Fax was put to sleep on Valentine's Day, Feb. 14. There's so much I could say about him. Suffice to say, I will remember and love him always. Thank you Laura --- MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Laura I know you've unsubcribed but just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear your sad news about your little prince. Thank you for all you did for him. At least he knew what it was to be loved and cared for in his all-too-short life. (I don't know if you know about the (free) memorial list that Belinda maintains. She updates it every Monday. I found it a great comfort to see my little furbabes' names posted there after I lost them. (If you like, to save you re-subscribing, I can ask her to do it for you--all you have to do is give me your little furball's name, and the date he passed.) take care, Kerry I've been a lurker on this list for months, just absorbing the knowledge each of you take the time to impart. This list has been my number one resource since a goofy-looking cat showed up last summer within the feral colony I feed. Since the day I had him neutered and got the initial diagnosis of leukemia, I've relied on this list for information and comfort. Yesterday, my little prince died. Before I unsub, though, I wanted to say thank you. Laura Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then (i) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP) of that transaction or matter, and (ii) such taxpayers should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Re: Belinda - What's going on with Fred?
Well that's a pretty good report! So your not having to do the dreaded subq fluids anymore? If you are, has he gotten better about accepting it? I know the murmur is troubling, (how wonderful that your vet can come by the house to recheck), prayers that it's nothing to worry about. Prayers also that he begins to put on more weight. The only thing that I know of to help with nutrient retention is Vita B, is he getting that too? Give him a head bump from me. Well done Belinda. Nina Belinda wrote: Hi Nina, No, no feeding tube yet. He has a heart murmur nos something he didn't have two weeks ago, everything else for the most part has improved. Creatinine is high normal (2.4 was 3.3), BUN very slightly high (40 was 52), potassium a little low (3.7), getting supplements for that, phosphorus normal (3.6 was 8), his extremely high blood pressure is way down from 284 to 173 in about 3 weeks. His sodium is low and chloride is low, so adding salt to his food. My vet is coming by Friday to listen to his heart and see if she still hears the murmur and we'll see how his weight goes, so far he's holding at 8lbs 9oz, was 9lbs about a month or so ago. Poor guy seems like every time I feed him I'm shoving pills down him, he is so good about it. She talked with a feline specialist about the feeding tube for CRF kitties and the specialist said yes she would use it if needed. Reason we were wondering is because at some point in CRF progression, the metabolism changes and a catobolic state occurs, they don't know what causes it or how to stop it, but it basically means they lose weight and muscle wasting happens. My vets cat was eating like a piggy, her words, yet only weighted 4 pounds when she finally euthanized her, she was slowly starving to death because of the catabolic state. Something to do with not absorbing the protein and nutrients in their food if I'm understanding it correctly. We'll see how things go Friday.
Re: Belinda - What's going on with Fred?
Yes he gets 150mls a day, he is pretty good for the most part unless I screw it up. Yesterday I had to poke him 3 times before I got it right, poor guy. He really puts up with a lot! :) -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Belinda - What's going on with Fred?
Yes he gets vit B injection once a week, today in fact. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Belinda - What's going on with Fred?
Belinda, I may have missed the follow up post, what's happening with Fred? Did you decide on the feeding tube? How did his blood work look? I take it you are still having to assist feed him since you were looking into a tube. Please let us know how you guys are doing. Nina
Re: Belinda - What's going on with Fred?
Hi Nina, No, no feeding tube yet. He has a heart murmur nos something he didn't have two weeks ago, everything else for the most part has improved. Creatinine is high normal (2.4 was 3.3), BUN very slightly high (40 was 52), potassium a little low (3.7), getting supplements for that, phosphorus normal (3.6 was 8), his extremely high blood pressure is way down from 284 to 173 in about 3 weeks. His sodium is low and chloride is low, so adding salt to his food. My vet is coming by Friday to listen to his heart and see if she still hears the murmur and we'll see how his weight goes, so far he's holding at 8lbs 9oz, was 9lbs about a month or so ago. Poor guy seems like every time I feed him I'm shoving pills down him, he is so good about it. She talked with a feline specialist about the feeding tube for CRF kitties and the specialist said yes she would use it if needed. Reason we were wondering is because at some point in CRF progression, the metabolism changes and a catobolic state occurs, they don't know what causes it or how to stop it, but it basically means they lose weight and muscle wasting happens. My vets cat was eating like a piggy, her words, yet only weighted 4 pounds when she finally euthanized her, she was slowly starving to death because of the catabolic state. Something to do with not absorbing the protein and nutrients in their food if I'm understanding it correctly. We'll see how things go Friday. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Fwd: Patty's addy for cards and letters/Attn: Belinda(list) all that sent ca...
See? Had to forward 'cause I mistakenly put ATTN: MICHELLE in the address part.. Would be SO nice if my brain was working.. Hugs, Patti ---BeginMessage--- Michelle, Thanks so very much for your condolence for my Corny..ALL members on this list have been so supportive, and VERY caring about my situation (MVA). I'll never be able to show my thanksAnd, believe me, you are all so special I also don't get online like I used to, and when I do, I have TERRIBLE problems reading, due to my eye injury I have my room mate (when available) read me postsSeems there have been TOO many others w/ problems, and he skips over them so it doesn't worsen my depression So, I attempt to keep up and am very behind w/ condolences and prayers(Thank heavens I was a wiz at HS typing, so I can write on PC..).. My dear Puma seems to be doing well, at least well for a 17 year old boy..He is eating(lots), drinking(lots), and sleeping(lots). He does not seem to be in any pain, thank heavens. (I did promise him, and all my other furbabies that I would not let them suffer!) I had a question for his vet he suggested I bring him in. Well, I thought that I would have to make the decision, and I just couldn't or wanted to be faced with that. So, I did refill his clindo and he really seems to be doing ok. And, when/if his time comes, I pray that he passes in his sleep - AT HOME!!! I owe him that much...He is such a dear 'ole boy. And speaking of my ferals, Charity actually (slightly) licked my hand today!!! She has really come a long way.She always appears when I venture outside. She seems to know what I am going to do before me! She actually comes up to house, even when I am out with the dogs! And, she talks so sweetly to me. So now I have made a promise to her Bart that I will check on them every day!!! (It is getting pretty dern cold here I don't want their water freezing.) Also, they know they will get wet food every day..(They are so smart- much smarter than a lot of people!) And yesterday, she got wet food TWICE!! I think she knows she's pulling on my heartstrings...I told Nina Belinda, she just might be my next housecat! And, she is Timmy's mom (think Bart might be his dad), and my dear Timmy has found his permanent home -HERE, w/ me! In fact, the woman who originally was approved for his adoption had to cancel due to serious health problems.She DID contact my friend while I was in hospital, and she DID adopt him! However, he clearly was miserable there, hid in basement, refused to eat, etc. So he was returned. Thank heavens for adoption contracts!!! And, my Timmy gave me the biggest, most loving welcome home.. AWESOME!!! I love that boy! And, as I explained before, I really believe he is my Ethan (passed @ 18 mos., Felv+) come back to me in a healthy body so we can spend our days together.. Well, just was informed by my k-9's that it is dinner time so I have to feed the Motley Crew! (term of endearment!). But thank you ever so much for your concernLike I said before, this group has WONDERFUL members!!! Love, Pati ---End Message---
Re: Patty's addy for cards and letters/Attn: Belinda(list) all that sent cards
Patti, I am behind on emails, and just read about Cornelius. I am so sorry. I lost my dog Chip in the same way-- we were on a walk and she fell over, cried out once, and was gone. They said it must have been a heart problem. It is such a shock, I know. I have not seen any update on Puma. Did I miss one? Sorry you are having such a hard time. I am glad you are able to be at home with your cats, and so the ferals can continue to give you hell for not bringing their wet food on time. Michelle
Re: New member introduction/questions-Belinda
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 06:14:07 -0800 Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He did fine with the surgery which lasted about 45 minutes, they used sevoflurane and fluids before, during and after. Belinda Hi Belinda, Thanks for sharing Bailey's dentistry success story. :-) Shane seems to be eating okay, so I don't know that the weight loss has to do with the state of his mouth, but it certainly could be related. My vet did tell me she would keep Shane on IV fluids before, during and after the procedure as well. I don't think they use sevoflurane, but they use isoflurane, which is also very safe. I'll probably take Shane in to be weighed in about a week and then make a decision about how to proceed. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again! Sue and Shane Jerome, AZ
Re: Belinda
Dear Sherry, I am so sorry for the loss of your furkids. Heaven has some more beautiful little angels. Yvonne In a message dated 12/4/2006 10:34:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hope you are doing well.Could you add a couple of my sanctuary fur kids to the CLS? Dante' fiv Oct 5 Carissa felv Oct. 10 Blaze felv Nov. 22 Thank you.Blessings to you. Sherry
Re: Patty's addy for cards and letters/Attn: Belinda(list) allthat sent cards
PATTI! It's so good to have you check in, we've all been worried about you and wishing you well! I hope this font is big enough that you can read it ok! I'm SO very sorry to hear that Cornelius passed on. I also send my best regards for Puma, and I hope his corona NEVER mutates into FIP. I wish you all the best, and hope you find the answers you are seeking in your health very soon! Phaewryn
Belinda
Hope you are doing well.Could you add a couple of my sanctuary fur kids to the CLS? Dante' fiv Oct 5 Carissa felv Oct. 10 Blaze felv Nov. 22 Thank you.Blessings to you. Sherry - Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
Re: Belinda
I'm sorry about your fur kids Sherry. Gina Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hope you are doing well.Could you add a couple of my sanctuary fur kids to the CLS? Dante' fiv Oct 5 Carissa felv Oct. 10 Blaze felv Nov. 22 Thank you.Blessings to you. Sherry - Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. Visit my Tigger Tales site! - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
Re: Patty's addy for cards and letters/Attn: Belinda(list) all that sent cards
to barn, 'cause she is always there! Cats do have a special sense... And, she NEVER runs away when she sees me coming! In fact, she comes out to greet me!!! Just today she even sniffed my hand! And, with our history, I did not try to touch her. I think she respected me for that too. No hissing, just her sweet, gentle vocalizations. Who knows? Maybe one dayall good things take time, and boy, I have plenty of time!!! Maybe she'll be my next house cat? And Bart, who is super feral non-trusting, also does not run away when I am outside! They know I am NOT a threat...They are so smart. Too bad people can't be that way. I do have some very bad news though... I lost my Cornelius the other day. and he had NEVER been ill. He was up on the counter eating, and, BOOM!, he fell on the floor and that was it. He passed immediately.I rescued him when I was working at vet owner came in to have him euthanized. Improper urination was the reason. His records showed he did have a history of UTI's (Poor food I suppose, also a de-claw). Now get this, he was a pure bred Maine Coon ($'s) and the owner wouldn't even pay the lousy dollars for a urinary test So I got the ok from the vets to talk to her and offer to take him, and she signed him over. Turns out he DID have a UTI, was treated, and I took him home. Never a problem either, in fact, a joy. What a loss.just what I didn't need. So Belinda, would you add my Cornelius to there next CLS??? He passed on November 21. I will send a request, that is, if I remember, to you personally... MORE bad news.my Puma, 17, was diagnosed w/ toxo AND FIP (VERY high titre) For those that remember, I did have FIP in my home when I was fostering. Lost Dusty Odenand did have it confirmed thru necropsies Dusty was an older reformed feral from streets of Baltimore, but Oden was just 2, and I had him since I fostered his whole litter w/ bottle-feeding. At that time, I had all my fosters tested w/ the ELISA FIP test, but since all cats are exposed to FECV, I did not have my personal clan tested.. So Belinda, can you add my Puma to the Prayer List? I guess I should have put the Bad News first, then ended w/ my Good News. Just blame it on the brain thingy.. ( At least now I have an excuse, though I'd rather NOT have this one!) Boy, I just about wrote a book, and there is so much more I want to contribute. But, I PROMISE I will get to that another time. For all those that read this, Thanks. This is a very wonderful group Guess I'll go put on some coffee. Much love to everyone, Patti
