[LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2

[Sean Smith]

   The battle of Jannequin traditionally has had a first and second part,
   sequentially.

   On Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 1:00 PM guy_and_liz Smith
   <[1]guy_and_...@msn.com> wrote:

 I've played a lot of Renaissance polyphony in facsimile (on
 sackbut), and in that context, secunda pars means exactly what Ron
 describes. With large numbers of voices, you will sometimes see XYZ
 Vox to indicate a part/voice by number, such as Quinta Vox, but I've
 never seen "pars" used to indicate a part/voice .
 Guy
 -Original Message-
 From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 [mailto:[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ron
 Andrico
 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 12:35 PM
 To: Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.; Jussi-Pekka Lajunen;
 [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2
Sarge, I think you'll find that the term _secunda pars_
 universally
applies to the second section of a composition that was conceived
 in
more than one section, typically setting the continuation of a
 long
poem or another sectional text.
For instance, in Phalese _Luculentum Theatrum Musicum_, 1568,
 you'll
find on f.58v the Secunda pars and Tertia pars of a solo lute
 setting
of Josquin's motet, Benedicta es.   The rubrics indicate that the
 motet
was composed in three sequential sections.   On the following
 page, f.
59, you will find lute duets with the heading,_Sequntur deinceps
carmina, duabus testudinibus accomoda_ ([music] following the
 sacred
songs is accommodated for two lutes).   The two different lute
 parts are
not labeled other than the fact that the primary part carries an
indication that this particular duet is _ad secundum_, or for
 lutes
tuned a step apart, and of course the duet part is printed upside
 down
so both can play from the same book.
There seems to have been no standard convention in labeling the
separate parts of a lute duet but the most typical indication for
different parts was to label them superius, bassus, or tenor,
 such as
found in Pacoloni, 1564.   Nevertheless, _secunda pars_   is not
 likely
an indication for a separate instrumental part.
RA

 __
From: [5]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
<[6]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of Frank A.
 Gerbode,
M.D. <[7]sa...@gerbode.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 3:45 PM
To: Jussi-Pekka Lajunen <[8]jlaju...@gmail.com>;
 [9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
<[10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Numbers in a battle (Eysert), part 2
Oh!   I didn't find that score.   Thanks so much! One approach
 would be
to
intabulate the missing parts from the score, as a second lute
 part
(maybe using red notes) or just to fill them in so a single lute
 could
play the complete piece.
Since the first part does not have gaps or red notes, it, too
 might
have
to be edited (red notes or whatever) to fit the score.
All that is a bit of an undertaking.
Meanwhile, I am soldiering on through the MS.
--Sarge
On 9/9/2020 15:31, Jussi-Pekka Lajunen wrote:
> No, I haven't seen, but the numbers correspond to the duration
 of
> rests in the first choir's part (and the nine semibreve long
 section
> not included in the tablature). If you look at the score[1],
 you can
> see there are rests that last for two semibreves on page 25,
 for five
> semibreves on page 27, for 11 semibreves on pages 30â32, for
 three
> semibreves on page 36, for six semibreves on pages 38â39 and
 for 13
> semibreves on pages 40â42. Then there is a nine semibreve long
section
> on pages 33â34 that is missing from the tablature.
>
> There is no second lute part on the spreads in question
 (neither in
> red notes nor reversed), which is the reason why I thought that
 the
> possible second lute part might not be in the same manuscript.
>
> [1]
>

 [1][11]https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2
 F%2Fks.petruccimusiclibrary.org%2Ffiles%2Fimglnks%2Fusimg%2F4%2F41%2
 FIMSLP145data=02%7C01%7C%7C1d122b2434f14668a1e508d855c0e2c1%7C8
 4df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637353634211155008sda
 ta=WpwxBSNuL32CEyzsR%2F2csoPK5fkznKS2gzIkUs0JqXA%3Dreserved=0
459-WIMA.26bd-battu.pdf
>
> Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. kirjoitti 10.9.2020 klo 0.08:
>> Well, as we have discussed, the red notes are apparently
 

[LUTE] Re: future of the lute

[Sean Smith]

   " . . .   a small
  collection of passionate, dedicated, opinionated, sometimes
   irascible
  lovable misfits with a somewhat spectrum-y devotion to detail and an
  unquenchable appetite for discussion . . . ."
   Sounds like the perfect group to solve crimes on some Tuesday night
   dramedy series. (and, sorry to say, that's probably our best ticket to
   international stardom) Next week's episode: "Murder, she intabulated!"
   Sean

   On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 7:58 PM Christopher Stetson
   <[1]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for asking,   Theo, and hello all.
Judging from what I see on facebook and youtube, there doesn't
 seem to
be a dearth of young (well, young to me) enthusiastic and very
 talented
players, and I suspect the   lute world will go on as it   has,
 a small
collection of passionate, dedicated, opinionated, sometimes
 irascible
lovable misfits with a somewhat spectrum-y devotion to detail and
 an
unquenchable appetite for discussion about whether a completely
incongruous harmony in one measure of a composition in an ancient
 book
represents the radical vision of the composer or a tired
 typesetter's
mistake.I was a minor player in the '70's lute revival, which
 I
would say was a part of, but did not grow out of, the early music
revival.It had its good and not-so-good parts,   though it
 was a
sweet time,   as most times are when you are young.Yes, I
 think we
were inspired by the take-it-to-the-streets, DIY aspect of the
 folk
music revival, but also by the revivalist efforts of predecessors
 from
the '50's like Michael Shaeffer, Konrad Ragossnig, Eugen Dombois,
 and
the above-mentioned Julian Bream, who of course were inspired by
 Arnold
Dolmetsch, Diana Poulton, Joseph Iadone, Walter Gerwig and others
 from
the 1920's and '30's, back to Thomas Mace's irritated attempt to
reawaken faltering interest in the 1670's.And I don't think
 lute
players in general have ever been seen as particularly sizzling
 except,
as Phil Ochs might say, outside of a small circle of friends.
Best to all, stay safe, and keep playing,
Chris.
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 8:19 PM
<[1][2]theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
 Dear luters:
 What does the future hold the lute?
 In the waning days of this wonderful email list (Thanks
 Wayne!!),
  I
 thought I would invite thoughts regarding the future of the
 lute
  and
 the lute community. As I muse, it seems that this present
 lute
  revival
 started in 1960's - 70's largely out of the folk music
 revival
  and
 early music revival. I notice that many of our fellow lute
  enthusiasts
 are growing older (as am I). And with the recent passing of
  Julian
 Bream, I thought it prescient to reflect:
 What will the next 10, 20, or 50 years look like for the
 lute and
  lute
 community?
 Is interest in the lute on the decline, ascendency, or
 moving in
  some
 other direction?
 Is this trajectory different in different countries?
 The internet has revolutionized access to manuscripts,
  publishers, and
 recordings. Will the internet ultimately drive interest to
  diversions
 other than the lute?
 And when will Hollywood finally make a sizzling historical
  romance
 about a lute player and bring the lute back to be a symbol
 of
 seduction, as it should be? (Hopefully the movie won't be
 about
  Mark
 Smeaton.)
 Thoughts?
 theodore jordan
 --
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [2][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
 References
1. mailto:[4]theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
2. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   4. mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: The lute list is retiring soon

[Sean Smith]

   I think I joined about '99 or so and I've watched this list become
   extremely important to the lute community. We've bounced so many ideas
   and facts across the world and we could always rely on this trusted,
   neutral forum, unhindered by outside social corporations. Personally,
   I've met a lot of people--respectable people, at that!--and learned a
   lot about lute music, players, history, and . . . us.
   And, bonus, I found a great lute on your lutes-for-sale page!
   Thank you, Wayne, for your vision, persistence and work which has
   allowed _this_ community to thrive.
   Sean

   On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 12:06 PM Wayne <[1]wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   wrote:

 Hi -
   I have been running this lute mail list since 1998, and it has
 been interesting and fun.   Now I am retiring from my job at
 Dartmouth College, and when I retire the computers that I have run
 will be shut down.   This includes the   mail servers that run the
 lute mail list.   So it is time to retire from running the lute mail
 list too.   I will also be closing my lute web page, my lute
 tablature page, and "Lutes For Sale" web page.
   If someone wants to take up running the lute mail list I suggest
 that they announce it on my list in the next month, while my list is
 still running.   My list runs using software that I wrote, and I
 don't recommend that someone else try to use it.   I don't know the
 last day yet, but I will make an announcement when my list actually
 closes.
Wayne
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

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   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Tablature letters on lines - was Re: e vs c

[Sean Smith]

 modern times
>  because it
>  > was the first facsimile that many of us who were
 involved in
lute
>  music
>  > in those days owned in the Scott edition.
>  > > Best wishes, Denys
>  > >
>  > > Sent from my iPhone
>  > >
>  > >> On 4 Aug 2020, at 00:02, Tristan von Neumann
>  > <[4][4][11]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
>  > >>
>  > >> Good question Sean...
>  > >>
>  > >> I think there's no real development in this.
>  > >>
>  > >> For example, Fuhrmann's Testudo Gallica
 uses
>  "on-line"
>  > fonts,
>  > >> and "c".
>  > >>
>  > >> This is very annoying sometimes if you want to
 play from
the
>  > facsimile...
>  > >>
>  > >> In manuscripts, Marsh Lute Book uses c, it's
 often very
>  confusing
>  > next
>  > >> to the e.
>  > >>
>  > >> French "above line" prints from earlier decades
 (Morlaye,
Le
>  Roy)
>  > also
>  > >> use c but I find those prints very readable.
>  > >>
>  > >> I don't recall "r" in prints, but maybe I missed
 some.
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >>> On 04.08.20 00:56, Sean Smith wrote:
>  > >>>   Dear all,
>  > >>>   There's a long tradition of scribing the
 cipher 'r'
in
>  place
>  > of 'c' in
>  > >>>   manuscripts of lute tablature. It's quick
 and easy
and
>  serves
>  > to
>  > >>>   differentiate a 'c' from an 'e'. My
 question is,
did this
>  > carry over
>  > >>>   into historic printed tablatures with
 standardized
>  typefaces?
>  > Can
>  > >>>   anyone suggest examples? Lute, guitar,
 mandora,
etc?
>  > >>>   I don't recall any in Renaissance
 prints--tho I
could
>  easily
>  > be
>  > >>>   wrong--but I know I don't have enough
 experience
with
>  baroque
>  > >>>   tablatures!
>  > >>>   Tia, Sean
>  > >>>
>  > >>>   --
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>> To get on or off this list see list information
 at
>  > >>>
[5][5][12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>  > >>
>  > Actually, the letter that looks like an "r" is
 actually a
"c" in
>  > English secretary hand. That's probably why the "r"
 is
featured in
>  > English sources.
>  > If you scroll down to the chart of miniscule letters
 here
>  >
>

 [6][6][13]http://morristownnhpmuseum.blogspot.com/2016/10/paleograph
 y-for-e
>  ver
>  > yone-cracking-old.html you'll see various form(s) of
 c.
>  > Tom
>  >
>  > --
>  >
>  > References
>  >
>  > 1. mailto:[7][14]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
>  > 2. mailto:[8][15]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>  > 3. mailto:[9][16]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>  > 4. mailto:[10][17]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
>  > 5.
[11][18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>  > 6.
>

 [12][19]http://morristownnhpmuseum.blogspot.com/2016/10/paleography-
 for-eve
>  ryone-cracking-old.html

[LUTE] Re: e vs c

[Sean Smith]

   Looking back, it was one of my first, too. I confess it's been a while
   since it's seen daylight!

   On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:33 PM Denys Stephens
   <[1]denyssteph...@sky.com> wrote:

 Dear Sean & Tristan, the Robert Dowland âVarietie of lute lessons'
 and Barley's âNew book of tablature' both have âr' for âc' although
 the latter is engraved rather than typeset. I suspect that the
 Varietie of lute lessons may have had an undue influence in modern
 times because it was the first facsimile that many of us who were
 involved in lute music in those days owned in the Scott edition.
 Best wishes, Denys
 Sent from my iPhone
 > On 4 Aug 2020, at 00:02, Tristan von Neumann
 <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
 >
 > Good question Sean...
 >
 > I think there's no real development in this.
 >
 > For example, Fuhrmann's Testudo Gallica uses "on-line"
 fonts,
 > and "c".
 >
 > This is very annoying sometimes if you want to play from the
 facsimile...
 >
 > In manuscripts, Marsh Lute Book uses c, it's often very confusing
 next
 > to the e.
 >
 > French "above line" prints from earlier decades (Morlaye, Le Roy)
 also
 > use c but I find those prints very readable.
 >
 > I don't recall "r" in prints, but maybe I missed some.
 >
 >
 >> On 04.08.20 00:56, Sean Smith wrote:
 >> Dear all,
 >> There's a long tradition of scribing the cipher 'r' in place
 of 'c' in
 >> manuscripts of lute tablature. It's quick and easy and serves
 to
 >> differentiate a 'c' from an 'e'. My question is, did this
 carry over
 >> into historic printed tablatures with standardized typefaces?
 Can
 >> anyone suggest examples? Lute, guitar, mandora, etc?
 >> I don't recall any in Renaissance prints--tho I could easily
 be
 >> wrong--but I know I don't have enough experience with baroque
 >> tablatures!
 >> Tia, Sean
 >>
 >> --
 >>
 >>
 >> To get on or off this list see list information at
 >> [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 >
 >

   --

References

   1. mailto:denyssteph...@sky.com
   2. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: e vs c

[Sean Smith]

   Aha! Thanks, Dmitri!
   One person has privately suggested it's not an 'r' but a 'gamma'.

   On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:17 PM Dmitry Medvedev
   <[1]d.p.medve...@gmail.com> wrote:

 One that comes to mind - Robert Dowland: A Varietie of Lute Lessons.
 Dmitry
 On 8/3/2020 6:56 PM, Sean Smith wrote:
 >  Dear all,
 >  There's a long tradition of scribing the cipher 'r' in place
 of 'c' in
 >  manuscripts of lute tablature. It's quick and easy and serves
 to
 >  differentiate a 'c' from an 'e'. My question is, did this
 carry over
 >  into historic printed tablatures with standardized typefaces?
 Can
 >  anyone suggest examples? Lute, guitar, mandora, etc?
 >  I don't recall any in Renaissance prints--tho I could easily
 be
 >  wrong--but I know I don't have enough experience with baroque
 >  tablatures!
 >  Tia, Sean
 >
 >  --
 >
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:d.p.medve...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: e vs c

[Sean Smith]

   I agree, T., there are certainly prints where I wish they had!

   On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:05 PM Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 Good question Sean...
 I think there's no real development in this.
 For example, Fuhrmann's Testudo Gallica uses "on-line"
 fonts,
 and "c".
 This is very annoying sometimes if you want to play from the
 facsimile...
 In manuscripts, Marsh Lute Book uses c, it's often very confusing
 next
 to the e.
 French "above line" prints from earlier decades (Morlaye, Le Roy)
 also
 use c but I find those prints very readable.
 I don't recall "r" in prints, but maybe I missed some.
 On 04.08.20 00:56, Sean Smith wrote:
 >  Dear all,
 >  There's a long tradition of scribing the cipher 'r' in place
 of 'c' in
 >  manuscripts of lute tablature. It's quick and easy and serves
 to
 >  differentiate a 'c' from an 'e'. My question is, did this
 carry over
 >  into historic printed tablatures with standardized typefaces?
 Can
 >  anyone suggest examples? Lute, guitar, mandora, etc?
 >  I don't recall any in Renaissance prints--tho I could easily
 be
 >  wrong--but I know I don't have enough experience with baroque
 >  tablatures!
 >  Tia, Sean
 >
 >  --
 >
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] e vs c

[Sean Smith]

   Dear all,
   There's a long tradition of scribing the cipher 'r' in place of 'c' in
   manuscripts of lute tablature. It's quick and easy and serves to
   differentiate a 'c' from an 'e'. My question is, did this carry over
   into historic printed tablatures with standardized typefaces? Can
   anyone suggest examples? Lute, guitar, mandora, etc?
   I don't recall any in Renaissance prints--tho I could easily be
   wrong--but I know I don't have enough experience with baroque
   tablatures!
   Tia, Sean

   --


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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Weird instrument depiction in painting

[Sean Smith]

   Looking at the sound holes, I suspect a harp.

   On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:07 AM Sean Smith <[1]lutesm...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   Looking at the sound holes, I suspect a harp.

   On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:04 AM Tristan von Neumann
   <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 I just stumbled upon this painting by Reinhold Timm.
 It supposedly shows the musicians of Christian IV.
 What's the instrument on the left?
 It looks like a Harp seen from a very weird angle...
 The painting is very interesting in general, it looks almost like
 some
 1920s Neorealism.
 [3]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Christian_IV%
 27s_musicians_by_Reinhold_Timm.jpg
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   3. 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Christian_IV's_musicians_by_Reinhold_Timm.jpg
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: LeRoy guiterre tabs

[Sean Smith]

   I agree whole heartedly with 2nd paragraph, Ron, and most of the first
   but, having copied or studied a number of books from the period
   specifically with dots in mind, I have found very few wayward dots. As
   it requires an extra step to add that dot, either with quill or lead,
   I've tried to give the copiest the benefit of the doubt. If it's in an
   odd place, I'll look for further instances within that source for that
   anomaly and I've usually found them.
   Sometimes it occurs on successive treble notes (without bass) moving
   from a higher to the next lower course whether on the beat or not, the
   pattern repeating often enough to show that it is deliberate. I can't
   remember off the top of my head which books but I could do a little dot
   hunting to follow up if you'd like.
   Sometimes in an obvious mistake it is shifted a cipher to the right or
   left but not often.
   Sean

   On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 9:03 AM Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

As usual, I have a different understanding of the use of the
 single dot
in plucked-string tablatures.   The rudimentary interpretation is
 that
the index finger plucks every note with a single dot.   The
 deeper
interpretation considers the single dot in a running passage as a
visual cue to keep track of stong-weak rhythmic articulations,
 and
typically but not necessarily always to be plucked with the index
finger.   Yes, sometimes the dots are misplaced in old prints, so
 don't
always trust them.
Particularly in French tablatures, the single dot under a chordal
 event
indicates a brush or strum, also found in Italian tablatures as
 early
as Spinacino and Capirola.   The brush is usually best
 accomplished with
the index finger but with individual notes not acutely separated,
 and
certainly not strongly articulated. I usually hear a serious
 deficit in
delicacy with people who grossly misinterpret the chordal dot,
 thinking
it indicates a power chord.   Not.
RA

 __
From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
<[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of Leonard
 Williams
<[4]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 2:42 PM
To: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu <[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [LUTE] LeRoy guiterre tabs
   A question about LeRoys tabs for guiterre, recently
 brought to
our
   attention by Rainer:   How "accurate" are the tabs?   I notice
 a lot
of
   odd placement of right-hand fingering dots (for index,
 presumably);
are
   these in error?   Some are under chords, some on first and
 third
beats,
   or on successive notes.
   I'm thinking of introducing a novice uke player to these,
 and
I'd
   rather not offer something full of confusing misprints.
   Thanks and stay well!
   Leonard Williams
   --
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https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link
  11. 
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon

[LUTE] Re: LeRoy guiterre tabs

[Sean Smith]

   Hi Leonard,
   I think we can consider these to be accurate. Adrian LeRoy was his own
   publisher so I'm sure he had the chance to proofread it.
   On single lines his dotting is much as we would expect in most lute
   tab: on the off beats as an indication of the index finger.
   But we also notice it under multinote chords, right? For example, in
   Jay rebours (2nd book with the voice setting) we see in the first two
   events a full C chord followed by a portion of the C chord on the
   middle beat with a dot underneath. This kind of rootless chord in the
   same situation appears frequently in ALR's lute books, Albert de Rippe,
   Castelfranco ms. and many other sources and often with either a dot
   underneath or each cipher dotted to the right.
   This has been interpreted various ways. A brush with the index finger
   has been the easiest interpretation and I see its merits. It could also
   indicate to treat it with less force. It's very easy to over-play that
   rootless chord that way but doing so pulls the accent in the measure
   away from the more important downbeat.
   It could also mean to break up the chord and less as a solid block.
   Again this would help not pull the rhythm off the downbeat and
   distribute the tonality through the measure.
   Personally I think it's a reminder to keep it light _in the sense of_ a
   dotted passage in single notes. It usually appears where we want to
   distribute the chord over a short period but don't want to pull
   attention to the offbeat. It's quite frequent in the accompaniment
   chords in the Castelfranco in that context. And there are many cases
   where the notes are non-adjacent which counter-suggests the brushing of
   the finger. I can't remember if that occurs in the guitar books, tho.
   I'll thumb through them today.
   Sean

   On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 7:43 AM Leonard Williams
   <[1]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

A question about LeRoys tabs for guiterre, recently brought
 to our
attention by Rainer:   How "accurate" are the tabs?   I notice a
 lot of
odd placement of right-hand fingering dots (for index,
 presumably); are
these in error?   Some are under chords, some on first and third
 beats,
or on successive notes.
I'm thinking of introducing a novice uke player to these, and
 I'd
rather not offer something full of confusing misprints.
Thanks and stay well!
Leonard Williams
--
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Le Roy for guitar

[Sean Smith]

   And a ms:
   [1]https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/records/item/3628-redirec
   tion
   Sean

   On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 6:37 AM Rainer <[2]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
   wrote:

 [3]https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3625
 [4]https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3627
 [5]https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3629
 [6]https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3631
 [7]https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3633
 Rainer
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/records/item/3628-redirection
   2. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
   3. https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3625
   4. https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3627
   5. https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3629
   6. https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3631
   7. https://mazarinum.bibliotheque-mazarine.fr/ark:/61562/mz3633
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Terzi and the viola bastarda

[Sean Smith]

   Thank you, Rainer. That's an excellent overview and analysis.
   s

   On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 8:16 AM Rainer <[1]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
   wrote:

 [2]http://vdgs.org.uk/journal/Vol-08.pdf
 Rainer
 Am 02.07.2020 um 23:11 schrieb Sean Smith:
 >  Dear all, I have a question regarding the overlap in
 repertoire between
 >  the viola bastarda and Terzi.
 >  In his second book (1599) he includes Chi farà  fede
 [Striggio] with
 >  the note, "... accommodato à  modo di Viola bastarda per
 suonar in
 >  Concerto con Liutto grande".
 >  I take it to mean that it's 'in the style of' the v.b. and
 not actually
 >  for the v.b. but I was wondering if there were viols with the
 necessary
 >  7th string a 4th below #6 at the time suitable for this rep.
 >  Any thoughts on this? Sean
 >
 >  --
 >
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 >

   --

References

   1. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
   2. http://vdgs.org.uk/journal/Vol-08.pdf
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Terzi and the viola bastarda

[Sean Smith]

   Dear all, I have a question regarding the overlap in repertoire between
   the viola bastarda and Terzi.
   In his second book (1599) he includes Chi farà fede [Striggio] with
   the note, "... accommodato à modo di Viola bastarda per suonar in
   Concerto con Liutto grande".
   I take it to mean that it's 'in the style of' the v.b. and not actually
   for the v.b. but I was wondering if there were viols with the necessary
   7th string a 4th below #6 at the time suitable for this rep.
   Any thoughts on this? Sean

   --


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[LUTE] Re: A strange "error" in Maestro

[Sean Smith]

   I hear ya, Sarge.
   Most pieces connected to Ghiselin in Spinacino aren't for the
   faint-heared. (ditto Kyrie de les armes) I don't know why. Isn't there
   a concordance in the Buxheim Organ book? Maybe make two edits: the
   first faithful and the second with ficta suggestions from the chanson
   settings or Buxheim? There are so many decisions possible and then you
   are left wondering if you're editing for our ears and risk getting
   further from their reality.
   Sean

   On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 12:30 PM Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.
   <[1]sa...@gerbode.net> wrote:

I am working on an edition of Spinacino v.1 (1507) and have run
 across
these 2 extremely dissonant duets.
I am not personally a big fan of gratuitous dissonance (diabolus
 in
musica).   Dissonance that serves a purpose, as in Dowland, yes.
Dissonance as a passing note, yes. Dissonance as a cadential
suspension, yes.   But minor second intervals on downbeats, not
 so much.
 I would like to "correct" these duet parts so they harmonize
 instead
of "cacophonizing" with each other, but have no idea where to
 begin.
Has anyone tried to do this? If I can't find a harmonious
 solution, I
will just leave the duets as is, though I hate to punt like that,
because who will want to play them as written (except maybe
 Schräder,
and he is no longer with us)?
--Sarge
On 10/14/2019 23:48, Alain Veylit wrote:
I cannot read this thread without thinking about Spinacino's
 duets,
particularly the setting of Ghiselin's Jolis amours: are the
 notes
wrong or is it our ears? Yet, I had found a very convincing
 rendition
of that duet a while ago on the Net, played as printed 500 years
 ago
(already!) -- I believe   Karl-Ernst Schrà ¶der was on one of the
 2 lutes
-- Helas, I can no longer find that particular recording on the
Internet any longer. One trick they used to make the half-tone
 clashes
sound better was to play the piece very fast. It works.
Spinacino's "J'ay pris amours" is still there on YouTube but it
 is less
striking as an example of utter dissonance to modern ears - see
[1][1][2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljcq1ETbXkI
 --
 Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([2][3]sa...@gerbode.net)
 11132 Dell Ave
 Forestville, CA 95436-9491
 Home phone:   707-820-1759
 Website:   [3][4]http://www.gerbode.net
 "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."
--
 References
1. [5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljcq1ETbXkI
2. mailto:[6]sa...@gerbode.net
3. [7]http://www.gerbode.net/
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljcq1ETbXkI
   3. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
   4. http://www.gerbode.net/
   5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljcq1ETbXkI
   6. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
   7. http://www.gerbode.net/
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: La rocha il fuso

[Sean Smith]

   Thanks for the probably reference. I've seen Rocha al/el/il Fuso. Of
   the three there a preferred spelling for the article?
   Sean
   On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 12:57 PM Robert Barto <[1]r.ba...@gmx.de>
   wrote:

HI Sarge,
La conocchia o rocca è uno strumento che in coppia col [1]fuso
 serve a
[2]filare.
I'm not really up on "spinning " terminology but apparently the
 fuso is
the spindle and the rocca is the distaff?
There are some wonderful early renaissance paintings of ladies
 spinning
even at court.
Robert
Am 17.05.2020 um 21:02 schrieb Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.:
  Anybody know what "la rocha il fuso" *means*? Just curious.
  --Sarge
  --Sarge
  --
  Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([3][2]sa...@gerbode.net)
  11132 Dell Ave
  Forestville, CA 95436-9491
  Home phone: � 707-820-1759
  Website: � [4][3]http://www.gerbode.net
  "The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [5][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
 References
1. [5]https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuso_(strumento)
2. [6]https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filatura
3. mailto:[7]sa...@gerbode.net
4. [8]http://www.gerbode.net/
5. [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:r.ba...@gmx.de
   2. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
   3. http://www.gerbode.net/
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   5. https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuso_(strumento)
   6. https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filatura
   7. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
   8. http://www.gerbode.net/
   9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: The blemish in question

[Sean Smith]

   Sorry about that, folks. Two email addresses nearly identical. Please
   disregard!
   Sean

   --


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[LUTE] Re: String conversion math question

[Sean Smith]

   As Mr Batov pointed out remember to take the string's stretch into
   account. When a chanterelle is slackened, the point at the nut moves to
   at least the 2nd fret when using nylgut--and sometimes further. That's
   means about 10% or more of the string mass taken away from the
   vibrating length when tuning up. You may see that as decreased diameter
   with calipers when you bring the string up to pitch.
   This factor decreases as you move to larger diameter strings. A roped
   gut bass string only moves at most a few centimeters to get to pitch so
   its mass and diameter change very little when coming up to pitch.
   Is there a list of stretch constants for different materials?
   Sean

   On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:18 AM Karl Ludwig Eggert
   <[1]karl.l.egg...@t-online.de> wrote:

 Dear Ted,
 If you know the density of the string material, you get a factor for
 diam conv. thus:
 from the string equation it follows, that the diameters d1, d2 of
 two
 string substances 1, 2 with density1 and density2   behave as
 d2/d1 = Sqrt (density1/density2) = factor x/nyl   .
 substance   x   nylon 6.12   gut, nylgut,
 sugar nylgut NGE
 carbon/All. KF
 density (kg/m^3) 1070   ca 1300   1220

 ca.1780
 factor x/nylon   1 0,91

 0,94   0,78
 Best wishes
 Karl
 Am 11.05.2020 um 01:30 schrieb
 [2]theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu:
 >  Dear wise luters:
 >  When converting strings from nylon to gut to a synthetic gut,
 are there
 >  simple multiplication factors that one can use to determine
 the
 >  diameter of a replacement string? For example, if I have a
 1mm nylon
 >  string, and I want to replace it with a gut or synthetic gut,
 can one
 >  simply multiply the diameter by a factor -   based on the
 densities of
 >  the material - to find the diameter of the replacement string
 (pitch,
 >  string length, and room temperature being same)?
 >  Sorry for the complicated question; I assume the answer will
 more
 >  simple.
 >  Also, are 'Nylgut' and 'Alliance' strings material the same
 density?
 >  And lastly, Any recommendations for user friendly online
 string
 >  calculators?
 >  Apologies that the questions may have been previously
 addressed in this
 >  group-
 >  Thanks,
 >  ted jordan
 >
 >  --
 >
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:karl.l.egg...@t-online.de
   2. mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: GAC early iltalian renaissance composers

[Sean Smith]

   It sounds like the G. A. Casteliono Diversi Autori of 1536. The Albert
   de Rippe pieces are listed as by Alberto da Mantua.
   Sean

   On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:21 PM Jurgen Frenz
   <[1]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

Hello there,
once again I'm looking at a document "GAC - various early italian
diversi autiori" not knowing what it is. Does anybody know if it
 is a
manuscript and if so what is the name of it? The individual
 pieces are
numbered by folio. Some of the pieces there are identified by an
 author
"Mantua" - but I wonder if that is a person's name or if it is
 just the
location where those pieces came to life.
I'd be glad to know more, thanks a lot in advance,
Jurgen
MataTelinga mail footer.jpg
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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References

   1. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lute Tablature using Finale

[Sean Smith]

   I've used Parallels to open Fronimo on Mac and it works pretty well. My
   only complaint is that Mac updates sometimes would create problems as
   would OS upgrades. Eventually it would work but rarely the same problem
   twice. That was 8 or 9 years ago so that may be water under the bridge.
   Eventually I just got a dedicated Windows machine and all is well. They
   are getting pretty inexpensive and Fronimo doesn't use much in the way
   of computer power.
   One small requirement is an 'insert' key (to enter a space). If you
   don't have one on your mac (or windows keyboard) you'll want to map one
   onto it. I'd be lost without it.
   Sean

   On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:33 PM Mac User <[1]cwiggin...@nc.rr.com>
   wrote:

 Hi all! I've been using Finale as my primary music notation software
 for many years. Recently, I've begun arranging Renaissance and early
 Baroque music for a mixed lute trio (Tenor in G, Alto in A, Soprano
 in D), and while Finale does a fabulous job notating, transposing,
 printing, etc., the one complaint I've had (and have made it myself)
 is the look and function of the font used for the letters when
 notating in the French style. I've tried many fonts available on my
 computer; none seem adequate. Specifically, the letters cover each
 other when two or more notes appear at the same time. A friend
 recommended using Fronimo, but I don't believe that one works on a
 Mac, which I use exclusively. Does anyone here have a
 recommendation?
 Craig Wiggins
 Durham, NC
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:cwiggin...@nc.rr.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Things to play in quarantine

[Sean Smith]

   It's only one chord different from the Antico (Opening chord Romanesca:
   III ; Opening chord Antico: i) and often appears as an Antico alternate
   in many sources. Compare the Dalza with the Valderabano Romanesca for
   similarity. Libro 7 f97.
   Apparently the Romanesca predates the Antico, at least in printed
   sources.
   Sean
   ps, I took the liberty of excising the copied info at the bottom of our
   emails.

   --


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[LUTE] Re: Things to play in quarantine

[Sean Smith]

   Tristan,
   If you're looking for an early passemezo of Spanish character, there is
   a Romanesca in Dalza, f46.
   Sean

   On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 11:50 AM Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

Sorry, I trusted the number Sarge put on his edition.
So it's not from 1520 after all? No problem. That's even more
interesting, because this means that Hans Judenkünig's Spanish
 Dance in
his 1523 book is earlier than any of the actual Spanish sources.
It's similar to the dance in Simancas.
Like Hans Newsidler had the earliest Passamezzo though it's an
 Italian
dance...
On 23.03.20 19:35, Antonio Corona wrote:
We should be careful not to put forward our thoughts as facts.
 Try
Narváez (1538), it even predates the French guitar versions, not
 to
mention the later English lute versions (and it is not a
recommendation).
Cheers
Antonio
On Monday, 23 March 2020, 04:46:37 GMT-6, Tristan von Neumann
[1]<[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
I thought this was the oldest known vihuela tablature?
Feel free to recommend an earlier version!
I'm interested.
On 23.03.20 11:26, Antonio Corona wrote:
> � � How can you be so certain that this is the earliest
 example of
the
> � � Conde Claros?
> � � Best regards to everybody,
> � � Antonio
>
> � � On Sunday, 22 March 2020, 14:25:51 GMT-6, Tristan von
 Neumann
> � � <[2][3]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
> � � For some Condes Claros beginner fun, check out this
 duet (you can
> � � record
> � � the second part and play to it).
> � � It's also the earliest example.
> � �

 [1][3][4]http://gerbode.net/sources/E-SIM_simancas_archivo_general/l
 eg_394
_si
> � �
 mancas_vihuela_ms_1520/pdf/3_contrapunto_sobre_conde_claros.pdf
> � � The best beginner's book (I learned to play with it) is
 certainly
the
> � � one by Hans Newsidler:
> � �
 [2][4][5]http://gerbode.net/sources/HNewsidler/1536_1/pdf/
> � �
 [3][5][6]http://gerbode.net/sources/HNewsidler/1536_2/pdf/
> � � The great thing is that Newsidler carefully progresses,
introducing
> � � just
> � � one new aspect per piece.
> � � Also the first couple of pieces have only two voices,
 the third
can
> � � optionally be sung (it's popular tunes everyone knew
 back then).
> � � Other books like Robinson's School of Music seem too
 difficult
and
> � � unorganized for the beginner.
> � � Though Robinson is nice and the introduction helpful,
 it fails to
> � � create
> � � a learning curve.
> � � On 22.03.20 20:44, Sean Smith wrote:
> � � > � � You're right. It is long and involved 
and
 certainly has its
> � � difficult
> � � > � � bits.
> � � > � � It might be a project for someone with 
time
 on their hands
to
> � � select
> � � > � � bits for easier sections to play. It 
has its
 parallels with
Conde
> � � > � � Claros which went through many personal 
edits
 at the time
so it
> � � would
> � � > � � hardly be anachronistic to edit it to 
one's
 specs. I would
like to
> � � > � � think that there's something in there 
for
 everybody.
> � � > � � Sean
> � � >
> � � > � � On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 3:04 AM Jurgen 
Frenz
> � � > � �
 <[1][4][6][7]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:
> � � >
> � � > � � � if it is for easy pieces to play 
or
 re-work basic
technique I
> � � found
> � � > � � � Lynda Says quarterly advice 
quite useful
 and the higher
numbers
> � � are
> � � > � � � not so easy either:
> � � > � � �
 [2][

[LUTE] Re: Things to play in quarantine

[Sean Smith]

   You're right. It is long and involved and certainly has its difficult
   bits.
   It might be a project for someone with time on their hands to select
   bits for easier sections to play. It has its parallels with Conde
   Claros which went through many personal edits at the time so it would
   hardly be anachronistic to edit it to one's specs. I would like to
   think that there's something in there for everybody.
   Sean

   On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 3:04 AM Jurgen Frenz
   <[1]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

 if it is for easy pieces to play or re-work basic technique I found
 Lynda Says quarterly advice quite useful and the higher numbers are
 not so easy either:
 [2]https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/beginners
 Further there's a list of tentative "grades" of difficulty of lute
 pieces, not everybody feels the same as we all have different
 difficulties but nice to go through
 [3]https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/towards-lute-grades
 Best wishes
 Jürgen
 âââââââ Original Message âââââââ
 On Sunday, March 22, 2020 5:23 AM, Sean Smith
 <[4]lutesm...@gmail.com> wrote:
 > Both faves and we're lucky to have them.
 > I know you like finding hidden things, Tristan. Go to the really
 long
 > [Dump] on f280 in the Marsh. There's a measure missing between 114
 and
 > 115. Put in something you like or steal/adapt a measure from
 elsewhere.
 > Now here's the fun part, record it carefully, then play it against
 the
 > recording with a lag of 4 measures. It's not perfect but it works
 kind
 > of nicely. It will certainly keep you occupied for an afternoon or
 two.
 > ...and it's excellent metronome practice regardless.
 > Whether it was meant that way is hard to say and, depending on
 whom you
 > talk to, even suggesting it is probably irresponsible with a touch
 of
 > 'shame on you!'. There's certainly no indication. It also starts a
 > little abruptly so you might add a few C and G iterations on the
 front
 > end.
 > Sean
 >
 > On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 8:13 PM Tristan von Neumann
 > <[1][5]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
 >
 > Many of you might have more time on their hands than usual.
 > So here's a list of favorite books and manuscripts to play.
 > * Marsh Lute Book. Fun for weeks.
 >
 [2][6]http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms
 .z.
 > 3.2.13_marsh_lute_book/pdf/
 > * Siena Ms. - it never fails to surprise
 >
 [3][7]http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_
 28.
 > B.39_siena_lute_book_1590/pdf/
 > * If you want to concentrate on one piece: this one will keep you
 > busy
 > for a long time.
 >
 [4][8]http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_0
 1.p
 > df
 > * he learned from the best: This book by Paladin is extremely
 > charming
 > and not too difficult
 > [5][9]http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/
 > * in times like these...
 >
 [6][10]http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547
 /v2/
 > pdf/040_corona_de_mas_hermosas.pdf
 > [7][11]gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf
 > Let's hope the best for us all.
 > Enjoy life.
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 > [8][12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 >
 >
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 >
 > References
 >
 > 1.   mailto:[13]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
 > 2.
 [14]http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbi

[LUTE] Re: Things to play in quarantine

[Sean Smith]

   Both faves and we're lucky to have them.
   I know you like finding hidden things, Tristan. Go to the really long
   [Dump] on f280 in the Marsh. There's a measure missing between 114 and
   115. Put in something you like or steal/adapt a measure from elsewhere.
   Now here's the fun part, record it carefully, then play it against the
   recording with a lag of 4 measures. It's not perfect but it works kind
   of nicely. It will certainly keep you occupied for an afternoon or two.
   ...and it's excellent metronome practice regardless.
   Whether it was meant that way is hard to say and, depending on whom you
   talk to, even suggesting it is probably irresponsible with a touch of
   'shame on you!'. There's certainly no indication. It also starts a
   little abruptly so you might add a few C and G iterations on the front
   end.
   Sean

   On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 8:13 PM Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 Many of you might have more time on their hands than usual.
 So here's a list of favorite books and manuscripts to play.
 * Marsh Lute Book. Fun for weeks.
 [2]http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms.z.
 3.2.13_marsh_lute_book/pdf/
 * Siena Ms. - it never fails to surprise
 [3]http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_28.
 B.39_siena_lute_book_1590/pdf/
 * If you want to concentrate on one piece: this one will keep you
 busy
 for a long time.
 [4]http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_01.p
 df
 * he learned from the best: This book by Paladin is extremely
 charming
 and not too difficult
 [5]http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/
 * in times like these...
 [6]http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547/v2/
 pdf/040_corona_de_mas_hermosas.pdf
 [7]gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf
 Let's hope the best for us all.
 Enjoy life.
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. 
http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms.z.3.2.13_marsh_lute_book/pdf/
   3. 
http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_28.B.39_siena_lute_book_1590/pdf/
   4. http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_01.pdf
   5. http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/
   6. 
http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547/v2/pdf/040_corona_de_mas_hermosas.pdf
   7. http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Molinaro 12

[Sean Smith]

   I have your cd, David. It's very nice and always goes in rotation when
   I'm in a Terzi mood.

   On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 9:55 AM David van Ooijen
   <[1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Some years ago I recorded all the Terzi diets and had a good look
 at
his intabulations.Not easy, but not impossible. Here's what I
 wrote
at the time:
[1][2]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com/terzis-intabulations/
Davud
On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 at 17:49, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.
<[2][3]sa...@gerbode.net> wrote:
  That seems right. I have encountered a number of intabulations
 of
  multi-voice (like 5-6) pieces that seem unplayable (and not
 just to
  me),
  and I reached the conclusion that they were conceptual and the
  player
  did the best they could.
  --Sarge
  On 3/16/2020 03:08, Ron Andrico wrote:
  >   I think it is generally accepted that fret positions
 that
  would call
  >   for glued frets on the belly are conceptual.
 Meaning, if
  there was a
  >   fret there, it would be an o.
  >
  >   Molinaro's music is rich in rapid passage work but the
 real
  difficulty
  >   lies in managing the counterpoint.He was an
 organist and
  some of his
  >   lute tablature transcribed into keyboard notation could
 sound
  very well
  >   on an organ.I think he just worked out his lute
  arrangements to the
  >   fullest and expected that the player would aim for that
 ideal
  or modify
  >   as necessary.
  >
  >   RA
  >

 __
  >
  >   From: [3][4]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
  >   <[4][5]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on
 behalf of Sean
  Smith
  >   <[5][6]lutesm...@gmail.com>
  >   Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2020 5:32 PM
  >   To: lute <[6][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
  >   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Molinaro 12
  >
  >  Are we assuming belly frets up there?
  >  s
  >  On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 10:27 AM Christopher Stetson
  >  <[1][7][8]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:
  >   ...or had large hands. Actually, though, I
 don't find
  them more
  >   technically difficult than many of the chanson
  intabulations of
  >earlier
  >   publications.
  >   On Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 1:12 PM Tristan von
 Neumann
  >   <[1][2][8][9]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
  > But seriously, how do you play
  > (pardon my French)
  > o
  > k
  > i
      > ??
  > Molinaro must have played a small lute...
  > On 15.03.20 17:59, Sean Smith wrote:
  > > I foolishly mentioned that to him
 once. In
  his
  >   defense
  >he
  > pointed out
  > > it was his first recording nearly
 30 years
  ago. I'm
  >still
  > pretty
  > > impressed with it.
  > > And then there's his Terzi cd that
 is top
  notch.
  > > Sean
  > >
  > > On Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 11:22 AM
 Jurgen
  Frenz
  > >
  <[1][2][3][9][10]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:
  > >
  > >   what about asking him?
  > >   Some fool (for our free of charge
  pleasure)
  >   uploaded
  >a CD
  > of
  > >   Molinaro pieces played by Paul
 Beier (do
  you happen
  >to know
  > him?).
  > >   Mea culpa I downloaded it - but I
  believe I can
  >   hear
  >how he
  > was
 

[LUTE] Re: Molinaro 12

[Sean Smith]

   Are we assuming belly frets up there?
   s

   On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 10:27 AM Christopher Stetson
   <[1]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:

...or had large hands. Actually, though, I don't find them more
technically difficult than many of the chanson intabulations of
 earlier
publications.
On Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 1:12 PM Tristan von Neumann
<[1][2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
  But seriously, how do you play
  (pardon my French)
  o
  k
  i
  ??
  Molinaro must have played a small lute...
  On 15.03.20 17:59, Sean Smith wrote:
  >   I foolishly mentioned that to him once. In his defense
 he
  pointed out
  >   it was his first recording nearly 30 years ago. I'm
 still
  pretty
  >   impressed with it.
  >   And then there's his Terzi cd that is top notch.
  >   Sean
  >
  >   On Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 11:22 AM Jurgen Frenz
  >   <[1][2][3]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:
  >
  > what about asking him?
  > Some fool (for our free of charge pleasure) uploaded
 a CD
  of
  > Molinaro pieces played by Paul Beier (do you happen
 to know
  him?).
  > Mea culpa I downloaded it - but I believe I can hear
 how he
  was
  > struggling with the playing technique.
  > Best
  > JÃÃÃ ¼rgen
  > à ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢ Original Message à 
¢Ã ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢Ã
 ¢Ã ¢Ã
   ¢
  > On Sunday, March 15, 2020 3:38 PM, Tristan von
 Neumann
  > <[2][3][4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
  > > But No. 12 is certainly one of the most difficult
 pieces
  of the
  > entire
  > > literature.
  > > I guess even Paul O'Dette struggled a lot with it.
  > To get on or off this list see list information at
  >
  [3][4][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  >
  >   --
  >
  > References
  >
  >   1. mailto:[5][6]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
  >   2. mailto:[6][7]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
  >   3.
 [7][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  >
--
 References
1. mailto:[9]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
2. mailto:[10]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
3. mailto:[11]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
4. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
5. mailto:[13]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
6. mailto:[14]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
7. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   3. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
   4. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
   7. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   9. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
  10. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
  11. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
  12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  13. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
  14. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
  15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Molinaro 12

[Sean Smith]

   I foolishly mentioned that to him once. In his defense he pointed out
   it was his first recording nearly 30 years ago. I'm still pretty
   impressed with it.
   And then there's his Terzi cd that is top notch.
   Sean

   On Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 11:22 AM Jurgen Frenz
   <[1]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

 what about asking him?
 Some fool (for our free of charge pleasure) uploaded a CD of
 Molinaro pieces played by Paul Beier (do you happen to know him?).
 Mea culpa I downloaded it - but I believe I can hear how he was
 struggling with the playing technique.
 Best
 Jürgen
 âââââââ Original Message âââââââ
 On Sunday, March 15, 2020 3:38 PM, Tristan von Neumann
 <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
 > But No. 12 is certainly one of the most difficult pieces of the
 entire
 > literature.
 > I guess even Paul O'Dette struggled a lot with it.
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
   2. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Everyone OK?

[Sean Smith]

   Berkeley had its own EM festival planned June w/ lots of Fringe
   concerts by locals that will likely suffer a similar fate.
   Thinking of all the performances cancelled maybe we could pick a week
   and have an informal series from our members on YT and/or Vimeo.

   On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:00 PM David van Ooijen
   <[1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Cancelled concerts in the middle of passion season, so being hit.
 Hard.
David
***
David van Ooijen
[1][2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
[2][3]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
***
On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 at 21:56, Braig, Eugene
 <[3][4]brai...@osu.edu> wrote:
  As well as can be expected.Pretty dramatic measures being
 taken
  to limit risks of group exposures in Ohio, USA, including by my
  university employer.Routines-including performing,
 rehearsing,
  and lecturing-pretty thoroughly disrupted, but justifiably so.
  Looking forward to emergence on the other side, when this
 pandemic
  is only memory.
  Be well out there.
  Eugene
  -Original Message-
  From: [4][5]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
  <[5][6]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of
 Leonard
  Williams
  Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 3:11 PM
  To: [6][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Subject: [LUTE] Everyone OK?
 Things have been rather quiet on the list...I hope everyone
 is OK
 during this stressful period!
 Best regards,
 Leonard Williams
 --
  To get on or off this list see list information at

 [7][8]https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/*wbc/l
 ute

 -admin/index.html__;fg!!KGKeukY!gI-x-fVU7nUwK-VWysP0GZ10Vgu7yNLIfHfX
  cg9xXA0_3P4RcbSkNMgJ1VfA5zw$
--
 References
1. mailto:[9]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
2. [10]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
3. mailto:[11]brai...@osu.edu
4. mailto:[12]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
5. mailto:[13]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:[14]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
7.
 [15]https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/*wbc/lut
 e-admin/index.html__;fg!!KGKeukY!gI-x-fVU7nUwK-VWysP0GZ10Vgu7yNLIfHf
 Xcg9xXA0_3P4RcbSkNMgJ1VfA5zw$

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   3. https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com/
   4. mailto:brai...@osu.edu
   5. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   8. https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/*wbc/lute
   9. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  10. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  11. mailto:brai...@osu.edu
  12. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
  13. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
  14. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  15. 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/*wbc/lute-admin/index.html__;fg!!KGKeukY!gI-x-fVU7nUwK-VWysP0GZ10Vgu7yNLIfHfXcg9xXA0_3P4RcbSkNMgJ1VfA5zw$

[LUTE] Re: Everyone OK?

[Sean Smith]

   Thanks for the note, Leonard. We can indeed get caught up in 'the
   world' and forget our passion.
   I'm editing lute trios for when we can get together again. Did you know
   there are 74 trios in the Phalese Pacolini (yes, his spelling is all
   over the map) books and about 30 more in the Castelfranco ms.? I'm
   about halfway but it will keep me busy for a few more hours. ... and
   then some.
   Sean

   On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 12:12 PM Leonard Williams
   <[1]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

Things have been rather quiet on the list...I hope everyone is OK
during this stressful period!
Best regards,
Leonard Williams
--
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Transposing/transcribing in fronimo.

[Sean Smith]

   I agree with you, Ron, on the uncertainties that creep into the
   automatic transposition. I've used it on relatively easy dances but for
   more complex work, especially any number of vocal parts, I just did it
   by hand--and in 2.1. Now I just do it all in the older version. It only
   takes a little longer (if that) and I know that I've 'overseen' it at
   every step possible. I also learn more about the initial transcription
   into tablature as well as seeing a little into the mind of the
   transcriptionist. And yes, it's been a great program for me, too.
   Sean
   On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:00 AM Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

I use Fronimo constantly and cannot praise Francesco's efforts
 enough
in terms of its usefulness for lute music.   But in transposing
 and
transcribing, please take care that all work is checked
 thoroughly.   I
find that tablature characters are wrongly assigned at times, and
carefully applied slurs simply disappear.   In mensural music,
transposing in Fronimo can be a real mess and I find that all
 rests and
tied notes must be repositioned.   Again, for lute music there is
 no
better program.
RA

 __
From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
<[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of Frank A.
 Gerbode,
M.D. <[4]sa...@gerbode.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 6:31 PM
To: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu <[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [LUTE] Transposing/transcribing in fronimo.
You may already know this, but transcription from one instrument
 (or
tuning) to another can be done pretty easily through fronimo. Say
 you
start with a version for Baroque lute in ton ravissant. If you go
 to
F5/instrument, click on "transpose and transcribe" and then
 change the
tuning to archlute (customized to fit whatever key you are using.
 This
field doesn't use the "b" symbol, so you have to specify, e.g.,
 Eb as
D#, etc.) and hit OK, you will get a new version for the new
instrument.
Looking at the new version, you may need to tweak it a bit to
 make it
playable, but that approach definitely works. I also use this
 strategy
for converting from one sized lute to another. For example,
 suppose you
have a ground written for bass lute in D. To rewrite it for, say,
 a 7
or
8-course or archlute in G, you start with the original version,
 go into
F5/instrument and change the "first course" setting to D (the
 default
setting is G), without hitting "transcribe or "transpose and
transcribe", then hit "apply"; then change "first course" to G
 and
choose "renaissance 7 course" or "renaissance 8-course" or
 "archlute",
hit "transpose and transcribe", then OK, and you will get a new
 version
for lute in G, which, again, you will usually have to tweak a
 bit.
  I use a similar approach to convert pieces where the 6th course
 is
tuned down to F (or where other variant tunings have been used)
 to a
version for 7- or 8-course lute or archlute in standard tuning.
 Under
f5/instrument, I first put in the custom tunings using "modify
 custom
tuning" as necessary to make the piece sound correct when played
 in
fronimo. Then hit "apply". Then change to the tuning or
 instrument you
want to change to, hit "transpose and transcribe", then "OK", and
 you
will get the transposed version, which, again, will probably need
 to be
tweaked to make it more playable.
--Sarge
--
Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. ([7]sa...@gerbode.net)
11132 Dell Ave
Forestville, CA 95436-9491
Home phone:   707-820-1759
Website:   [1][8]http://www.gerbode.net
"The map may not be the territory, but it's all we've got."
To get on or off this list see list information at
[2][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
 References
1. [10]http://www.gerbode.net/
2. [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   2. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
   5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   7. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
   8. http://www.gerbode.net/
   9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  10. http://www.gerbode.net/
  11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: another controversial question (again)

[Sean Smith]

   For the record I still believe Francesco Spinacino's two books are
   indeed cans of worms overflowing with colorful content. I've compared
   all the non-ricercars to their originals (where possible) and am
   certain that a) there are multiple intabulators at work, b) many of the
   pieces are alternately playable on a 5-course lute, and c) many their
   texts are less than faithful either by accident and design.
   a) Some pieces are fairly straightforward such as Haray tre amours
   (Stokem), Isaac's Benedictus, and Comment peult (JdP) where the
   decoration is light, few ficta adjustments and they lie well on a 6-c
   instrument.
   b) This style is very different from the layouts of Allez regrets,
   Fortuna d'un grand tempo (Vincenet), Que vous madame (Agric. & JdP) and
   Nunquam fuit. These, among many others require the matching of ficta to
   their manuscript sources (or maybe the hair-raising clashes are
   acceptable like the sources to L'eure et venu where the clashes are
   baked into the lines). In these pieces, the meandering creativity that
   appears in decorated solo lines continually jumps between voices.
   Then there are pieces like Cent milles ecus, Le Souvenir and La
   Bernadina (solo) that are pretty accurate, contain the many decorated
   lines but sit so awkwardly on the lute. Each of these have full B-flat
   [G-lute] chords and rarely travel below that B-flat. If we play this on
   a 5-c we have nearly the entire piece available on the fretboard. If we
   were to play them on a 6-c they are unnecessarily difficult but moving
   that big B-flat chord to a more open G-chord (which, admittedly, again
   moves a few notes off the fingerboard but we often see that low F moved
   up an octave where the song is often acceptably intabulated). In their
   printed forms Cent milles and Le Souvenir are quite a handful; moved
   down a minor 3rd and their ficta adjusted, they are a relative joy.
   Some pieces remain just plain "Huh?" but I still haven't found many
   ricercars that come close to the inventiveness I find in the
   intabulations. There is an old article in the LSA Q where I compare
   Capirola's Nunquam to Spinacino's and am certain they are by different
   intabulators as are the other intabulations.
   c) Are these "mistakes" by accident or design? Obviously an open
   question but we shouldn't forget that printing lutebooks was a hitherto
   unknown practice and the risks were entirely unfathomable at this scale
   of sale. It may seem logical to us to print the best lutebook possible
   but I don't discount the possibility that the established lute
   professional community with which Spinacino worked may have reserved
   the sale of lessons to unlock this book for the amateur student.
   Basically, I've found a way into this rep and deeply respect and enjoy
   it.
   Sean

   On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 12:45 PM Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

Tristan, I would hesitate to say that Spinacino was a bad
 composer for
the lute.   Quite the contrary, considered in context his work
represented a very high standard of writing for the instrument.
 The
value judgement of Spinacino's work must be weighed against the
position it occupies as the very first instrumental music
 published
with moveable type.   Were there mistakes? Multitudes.   To truly
 judge
the worth of the music in Spinacino's book(s) it is absolutely
essential that one compare the intabulations against the vocal
 models.
I have done this for a large proportion of the intabulations and,
 after
adjustments and replacing missing measures, find Spinacino's
 settings
of vocal music to be quite brilliant.   Likewise, his
 instrumental
recercars must be analyzed as sectional pieces.   There are cases
 where
what amounts to separate sections are strung together without
 fermati
or double bars.   If we adjust for this and deliver a more
 sensitive and
flexible interpretation, the writing can be quite nice.   The
 other
mistake we make is in considering Spinacino's work as marking an
 abrupt
change from plectrum to fingerstyle play.   This is a patently
 absurd
idea that defies practical musical sense.   There was an obvious
unwritten tradition of arranging polyphony for the lute that
 predates
the first publication.
RA

 __
From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
<[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of Tristan
 von
Neumann <[4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 3:52 PM
To: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu <[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [LUTE] another controversial question (again)
After the Milan discussion 

[LUTE] Re: Android OS software

[Sean Smith]

   Thanks, Danny. It appears that PDFs are the new digital printed lingua
   franca, however temporary that may be. s

   On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 4:04 PM DANIEL SHOSKES <[1]dshos...@me.com>
   wrote:

 I'm reading from pdfs. The MobileSheetsPro allows annotations on the
 pdf and gives you the chance to save them. There is an eraser
 feature to remove individual ones after if you want or you can
 revert to the original file.
 It's an E reader so the device also works great with ebooks. Have a
 17.5 hr flight coming up and my wife has already threatened to use
 it herself for the duration.
 Danny
 > On Jan 5, 2020, at 4:55 PM, Sean Smith <[2]lutesm...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 >
 >Interesting thread.
 >I also bought a tablet (Surface 5) for tablet/tab/music stand.
 I chose
 >the Windows environment so I could read and edit Fronimo and
 have it
 >all contained in one box. Unfortunately I can't turn pages in
 Fronimo's
 >Print Preview with my home-made-foot-page turner so will invest
 in a
 >proper foot control. Realistically I don't expect that to
 change but
 >would appreciate a better thought out design than what I came
 up with
 >and hope for the best.[rant: why are they so pricey?
 They're just
 >wireless keyboards w/ two big buttons! :end rant]
 >But I can't add notes with a stylus until I print to PDF. Then
 those
 >notes are erased if I edit the original and "reprint" --but
 that's not
 >unlike a hard copy.
 >Danny, others using the Android: Are you reading from PDFs on
 your
 >tablets?
 >Sean
 >
 >On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 12:40 PM tribioli
 <[1][3]tribi...@arcetri.astro.it>
 >wrote:
 >
 > I've got a reconditioned Surface 4 that I use with
 MobileSheet. I
 >  use
 > it for singing so I wanted a light emitting device to cope
 with
 >  dark
 > environments too, like some churches. E-ink devices are
 probably
 >  better
 > when there is enough light
 > Francesco
 >  Messaggio originale 
 > Da: David van Ooijen <[2][4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
 > Data: 05/01/20 21:31 (GMT+01:00)
 > A: lutelist Net <[3][5]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 > Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: Android OS software
 >Thanks Dan, I saw that video too. Also saw the Gvido
 (double
 >  A4).
 > Too
 >bad that one doesn't survive in the real life reviews.
 There's
 >  an
 >Italian company that makes A4 size e-ink readers you
 can
 >  connect
 > into
 >double A4. Also tempting.
 >Let us know your experienceswith the Max3
 >David
 >***
 >David van Ooijen
 >[1][4][6]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 >[2][5][7]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
 >***
 >On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 21:17, Daniel Shoskes
 > <[3][6][8]kidneykut...@gmail.com>
 >wrote:
 >I ended up getting the Boox Max 3
 >
 >
 [4][7][9]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6wgf4WWS3o=emb_log
 o
 >Tutorial by a pianist for the Boox Max 2
 >[5][8][10]https://youtu.be/U2jBA3lVXWI
 >Happy to send you photos of how music looks on it (both
 >  computer
 >generated and scanned MS) if you are interested.Very
 clear.
 >  Surface
 >actually feels like paper. This version works with
 finger
 >  touch and
 >with a stylus. Pairs with bluetooth pedals for page
 turns.
 >Danny
 >On Jan 5, 2020, at 3:01 PM, David van Ooijen
 ><[6][9][11]davidvanooi...@gmail.com> wrote:
 >   Hi Dan
 >   Can we ask what device you have? I've been looking
 at e-ink
 >  sheet
 >music
 >   readers lately, but I couldn't make my mind up.
 >   David
 >   ***
 >   David van Ooijen
 >   [1][7][10][12]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 >   [2][8][11][13]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
 >   

[LUTE] Re: Android OS software

[Sean Smith]

   Thanks, I'm not sure I want it to save every annotation, especially
   depending on how much I change the music text ... so I'm not sure how
   much of this feature I want or need. But it's useful to know how much
   is available to the user in this or that format.
   s

   On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 2:09 PM David Smith <[1]d...@dolcesfogato.com>
   wrote:

 The nice thing about forScore on an iPad is that the annotations are
 saved when a PDF is updated. Most PDF readers do not have this
 support. Unfortunately it only runs on an iPad.
 I would hope that MobileSheets does nothing like this as well.
 David
 -Original Message-
 From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 <[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Sean Smith
 Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 1:56 PM
 To: lute <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Android OS software
Interesting thread.
I also bought a tablet (Surface 5) for tablet/tab/music stand. I
 chose
the Windows environment so I could read and edit Fronimo and have
 it
all contained in one box. Unfortunately I can't turn pages in
 Fronimo's
Print Preview with my home-made-foot-page turner so will invest
 in a
proper foot control. Realistically I don't expect that to change
 but
would appreciate a better thought out design than what I came up
 with
and hope for the best.[rant: why are they so pricey? They're
 just
wireless keyboards w/ two big buttons! :end rant]
But I can't add notes with a stylus until I print to PDF. Then
 those
notes are erased if I edit the original and "reprint" --but
 that's not
unlike a hard copy.
Danny, others using the Android: Are you reading from PDFs on
 your
tablets?
Sean
On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 12:40 PM tribioli
 <[1][5]tribi...@arcetri.astro.it>
wrote:
 I've got a reconditioned Surface 4 that I use with
 MobileSheet. I
  use
 it for singing so I wanted a light emitting device to cope
 with
  dark
 environments too, like some churches. E-ink devices are
 probably
  better
 when there is enough light
 Francesco
  Messaggio originale 
 Da: David van Ooijen <[2][6]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
 Data: 05/01/20 21:31 (GMT+01:00)
 A: lutelist Net <[3][7]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: Android OS software
Thanks Dan, I saw that video too. Also saw the Gvido
 (double
  A4).
 Too
bad that one doesn't survive in the real life reviews.
 There's
  an
Italian company that makes A4 size e-ink readers you can
  connect
 into
double A4. Also tempting.
Let us know your experienceswith the Max3
David
***
David van Ooijen
[1][4][8]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
[2][5][9]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
***
On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 21:17, Daniel Shoskes
 <[3][6][10]kidneykut...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I ended up getting the Boox Max 3

 [4][7][11]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6wgf4WWS3o=emb_lo
 go
Tutorial by a pianist for the Boox Max 2
[5][8][12]https://youtu.be/U2jBA3lVXWI
Happy to send you photos of how music looks on it (both
  computer
generated and scanned MS) if you are interested.Very
 clear.
  Surface
actually feels like paper. This version works with finger
  touch and
with a stylus. Pairs with bluetooth pedals for page
 turns.
Danny
On Jan 5, 2020, at 3:01 PM, David van Ooijen
<[6][9][13]davidvanooi...@gmail.com> wrote:
   Hi Dan
   Can we ask what device you have? I've been looking at
 e-ink
  sheet
music
   readers lately, but I couldn't make my mind up.
   David
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1][7][10][14]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2][8][11][15]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
   ***
   On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 20:56, Daniel Shoskes
<[3][9][12][16]kidneykut...@gmail.com>
   wrote:
   Thi

[LUTE] Re: Android OS software

[Sean Smith]

   Interesting thread.
   I also bought a tablet (Surface 5) for tablet/tab/music stand. I chose
   the Windows environment so I could read and edit Fronimo and have it
   all contained in one box. Unfortunately I can't turn pages in Fronimo's
   Print Preview with my home-made-foot-page turner so will invest in a
   proper foot control. Realistically I don't expect that to change but
   would appreciate a better thought out design than what I came up with
   and hope for the best.   [rant: why are they so pricey? They're just
   wireless keyboards w/ two big buttons! :end rant]
   But I can't add notes with a stylus until I print to PDF. Then those
   notes are erased if I edit the original and "reprint" --but that's not
   unlike a hard copy.
   Danny, others using the Android: Are you reading from PDFs on your
   tablets?
   Sean

   On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 12:40 PM tribioli <[1]tribi...@arcetri.astro.it>
   wrote:

I've got a reconditioned Surface 4 that I use with MobileSheet. I
 use
it for singing so I wanted a light emitting device to cope with
 dark
environments too, like some churches. E-ink devices are probably
 better
when there is enough light
Francesco
 Messaggio originale 
Da: David van Ooijen <[2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
Data: 05/01/20 21:31 (GMT+01:00)
A: lutelist Net <[3]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: Android OS software
   Thanks Dan, I saw that video too. Also saw the Gvido (double
 A4).
Too
   bad that one doesn't survive in the real life reviews. There's
 an
   Italian company that makes A4 size e-ink readers you can
 connect
into
   double A4. Also tempting.
   Let us know your experiences   with the Max3
   David
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1][4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2][5]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
   ***
   On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 21:17, Daniel Shoskes
<[3][6]kidneykut...@gmail.com>
   wrote:
   I ended up getting the Boox Max 3

 [4][7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6wgf4WWS3o=emb_logo
   Tutorial by a pianist for the Boox Max 2
   [5][8]https://youtu.be/U2jBA3lVXWI
   Happy to send you photos of how music looks on it (both
 computer
   generated and scanned MS) if you are interested.Very clear.
 Surface
   actually feels like paper. This version works with finger
 touch and
   with a stylus. Pairs with bluetooth pedals for page turns.
   Danny
   On Jan 5, 2020, at 3:01 PM, David van Ooijen
   <[6][9]davidvanooi...@gmail.com> wrote:
  Hi Dan
  Can we ask what device you have? I've been looking at e-ink
 sheet
   music
  readers lately, but I couldn't make my mind up.
  David
  ***
  David van Ooijen
  [1][7][10]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  [2][8][11]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com
  ***
  On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 20:56, Daniel Shoskes
   <[3][9][12]kidneykut...@gmail.com>
  wrote:
  This is the year I've committed to reducing paper
 clutter
   throughout
  the house so I've finally bought a dedicated tablet for
 music
  storage and performance. I got a 13.3 inch E ink
 display
which
   is
  friendly to my aging eyes and can fit a lot of music on
 1
page.
   It
  is however the first device I have owned that runs
 Android
(9.0)
  rather than iOS. Settled on MobileSheetsPro for sheet
 music
  management which has a dedicated E ink version (but no
 Mac or
   iOS
  equivalent).
  Would be interested to hear from anyone who uses
 Android
   software
  for lute music purposes on a tablet. Any valuable
 programs
out
  there?
  Thanks
  Danny
  To get on or off this list see list information at

 [4][10][13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  --
   References
  1. [11]mailto:[14]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  2. [12][15]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  3. [13]mailto:[16]kidneykut...@gmail.com
  4.
 [14][17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --
References
   1. mailto:[18]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. [19]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
 

[LUTE] Re: Lute Humor

[Sean Smith]

   If they are playing for other angels dancing on a pin, no rush at all.
   But any human audience eventually needs to go home and feed the little
   humans.

   On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 9:07 PM Alain Veylit
   <[1]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote:

 Only takes her that long because she has funny hands. Most
 (anatomically
 correct) people can do it in a jiffy. It's true. (Besides, if you
 are
 immortal, what's the rush?)
 On 12/6/19 2:15 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
 > I just found this on TwoSetViolin's subreddit:
 >
 >
 > [2]https://i.redd.it/qtufsdsfwz241.jpg
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
   2. https://i.redd.it/qtufsdsfwz241.jpg
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: : Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[Sean Smith]

   Groovy sometimes; nutty others--and only a distant bridge to unite
   them.
   My understanding is that a depth of only half the diameter of the
   string is necessary with radius only slightly larger than the string. I
   prefer a little deeper on the chanterelle of my ren. guitar since it
   loves to pop out but then I get into issues clearing my first fret if
   it's too deep.
   s

   On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 2:04 PM Robert Purrenhage
   <[1]pastimesmu...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

This groovy discussion causes me to ponder:
Should the string grooves at the nut be the full width of the
 string,
or should they be only as deep and wide as required to hold the
 string
in position - prevent it from sliding laterally?
Similarly how deep / wide should the grooves on a Viola da Gamba
 bridge
be?
What do the builders on the list have to say?
Many thanks,
Bob Purrenhage
On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 10:27:11 AM EST, Leonard Williams
<[2]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
  Something I had not thought of--width of groove.   Depth
 should
not
  be a problem; in fact, near the nut the upper surface of the
 octave
  should be lower than the bass. BUT--I had not considered
 looseness
  across the groove.   I'll look into that.
  Thanks for the tip!
  Regards,
  Leonard
  -Original Message-
  From: Anthony Hind <[1][3]agno3ph...@yahoo.com>
  To: Leonard Williams <[2][4]arc...@verizon.net>; daillie
  <[3][5]dail...@club-internet.fr>
  Cc: lute <[4][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
  Sent: Thu, Nov 28, 2019 3:32 am
  Subject: Re : [LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes
  Could it perhaps be   Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at
 5C was
  set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar
 happened
to
  me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4
 with
  equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I
 put
the
  Venices back and the problem went away.
  However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a   similar
 rattle
  appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear
 had
  slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could
 have
  changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend
 said he
  could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's
 dentine.
  This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves
 could
  possibly work for you.
  On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like
 yourself,
I
  have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT
 octave,
but
  I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was
 set up
  for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove
  Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will
 last
a
  lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson.
  Am I wrong about that?
  Best wishes
  Anthony
  [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
  Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams
  <[5][7]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a à ©crit :
I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of
 my 8
course lute.   I tried it several years ago, using an octave
 half
the
diameter of the bass (all in gut).   But, whereas the octave
 g on
6th
blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding
jangly,
almost as though I had a metal string on there.   Perhaps it
 was
poor
(thumb-in in this case) technique?   At any rate, I switched
 back to
unison.
I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion,
 same
stringing.   One thing I paid careful attention to was the
 height of
  the
octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the
bridge,
but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly,
 with
the
octave ringing out quite plainly.   I adjusted the bridge
 knot, what
little I could, and the sound improved somewhat.   Perhaps
 further
  work
with RH technique will further improve the sound.   Or--any
 other
suggestions??
Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving!
Leonard Williams
  --
References
  1. [6][8]https://yho.com/footer0
To get on or off this list see list information at

[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[Sean Smith]

   Would it adhere better to bone (or, shudder, ivory) than a hard plastic
   nut? Wood would be acceptable, too, I suppose.
   It might be that magic material to quickly build up a worn fret, too.
   Carefully done, of course.
   Sean

   On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 3:26 PM John Mardinly
   <[1]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:

Very cool. Dan Erlewine is just so full of cool tricks-he is
 amazing.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
On Nov 28, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Steve Ramey
 <[1][2]stevera...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
Don't know about dentist's "dentine", but here's a trick that may
help.
[2]The baking soda and super glue trick
 [youtube.png]
 The baking soda and super glue trick
"Can a broken nut can be fixed with baking soda and super glue?"
 Lou, a
singer here in Athens, Ohio, brought thi...
HTH,
Steve
On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 05:06:59 PM EST, John Mardinly
<[3][3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
  I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter
strings,
  especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it
 a âv'
  shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some
 sort of
  magic epoxy?
  A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
  On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind
  <[1][4][4]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
Could it perhaps be   Leonard, that the grooves at your nut
 at 5C
was
set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar
 happened
  to
me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on
 F4 with
equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle.
 I put
  the
Venices back and the problem went away.
However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a   similar
 rattle
appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some
 wear had
slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I
 could
have
changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend
 said
he
could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's
dentine.
This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves
 could
possibly work for you.
On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like
yourself,
  I
have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT
 octave,
  but
I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally
 was set
up
for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove
Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string
 will
last
  a
lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson.
Am I wrong about that?
Best wishes
Anthony
[1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams
<[2][5][5]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a à ©crit :
  I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course
 of my 8
  course lute.   I tried it several years ago, using an
 octave half
  the
  diameter of the bass (all in gut).   But, whereas the
 octave g on
  6th
  blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out,
 sounding
  jangly,
  almost as though I had a metal string on there.   Perhaps
 it was
  poor
  (thumb-in in this case) technique?   At any rate, I
 switched back
to
  unison.
  I'm trying octaves again as a result of this
 discussion, same
  stringing.   One thing I paid careful attention to was the
 height
of
the
  octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at
 the
  bridge,
  but enough that I was striking the pair of strings
 unevenly, with
  the
  octave ringing out quite plainly.   I adjusted the bridge
 knot,
what
  little I could, and the sound improved somewhat.   Perhaps
 further
work
  with RH technique will further improve the sound.   Or--any
 other
  suggestions??
  Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving!
  Leonard Williams
  On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz
  <[1][2][3][6][6]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:
Hello there,
I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning
 I'm
"unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I
 changed
  

[LUTE] Re: Arcadelt

[Sean Smith]

   Theoj89294,
   Jacob Arcadelt is wonderful composer to try your hand at transcribing
   vocal works if you don't see them elsewhere. The thinner textured
   French pieces are easier to work with and were even considered
   acceptable on the 4-course guitar. With one of the 4-c intabs of this
   piece and the vocal original you fill it out more thoroughly on the
   lute since there were inevitably some corners cut. Let Adrian, Albert
   and Melchior do the harder 4-part material of Crequillon, Sandrin and
   Rogier but there's a lot to learn from Arcadelt precisely because it's
   easier to work with.
   If it gets too easy why not try filling it out with passaggi, writing a
   second part, or even singing the vocal line? (some other things
   musicians did beside play a composer's notes on the page). The 5th of
   the Adrian LeRoy 4-course guitar books has a lot of Arcadelt set for
   voice and guitar but they are easily transcribed for lute. See also
   Arcadelt's O felici occhi miei in Ortiz 1553 for ideas on decorating a
   Cantus or adding a new line altogether.
   Personally, I find his French pieces a relief after his more difficult
   Italian vocal works. His Italian madrigals can be a handful (See
   Vindella's 1546 work dedicated to JA) but he had a solid lute following
   in any event and pieces like Cosi mi guida were very popular. All I'm
   trying to say is that Arcadelt is a good vocal composer to work with
   for 16th century lutenists, then and now.
   my 2c, Sean

   On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 6:54 AM Rainer <[1]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
   wrote:

 Should be "nous voyons que les hommes".
 According to Brown there are two intabulations for guitar - a bit
 thin for the lute.
 Rainer
 Am 05.11.2019 um 23:42 schrieb
 [2]theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu:
 >  Lutetopia:
 >  Does anyone know if there is an in tabulation of the Arcadelt
 chanson
 >  "nous voyons ques les hommes"? (It is a charming little
 tune). Thanks
 >  trj
 >
 >  --
 >
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 >

   --

References

   1. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
   2. mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Anachronistic playing style - Adriaenssen

[Sean Smith]

   The answer may lie with the undocumented performers and performing
   groups. They improvised and different groups would have varied success
   among tastes of various patrons, situations and other qualifiers.
   Sometimes these techniques would surface in the printed materials, mss,
   accounts or iconography. Some of this survives as we have found.
   Getting back to the passages that your first illustrated, I'm wondering
   if that was a printed way of saying "this is how you can get the most
   sound/volume for these parts, should you need them." It's almost a
   strum but we know that never happened, right? Or suppose you were
   duetting with a cittern player who wanted a solo and you were called on
   to imitate his accompaniment?
   A lot of Adr./Phalese (1563 onwards) is performance-based and the
   all-inclusiveness suggests to me that many of the volumes were meant
   and advertised as "all-you-need" for one's lutering needs, the Adr of
   '84 and '92 being the epitomes of the concept. So I think there are
   examples of everything we need to understand the art of lute playing as
   Adr./Phalese saw it in his time. While they are complete in their way,
   it needs (or wants) the player to expand on it.
   If we played Adr. perfectly then we would be no different than the
   other player (or group) who plays Adr. perfectly. Then, as now, how
   would the player sell himself as better other than bringing something
   new to the table? I'm not suggesting we be anachronistic or bring in
   influence from places that would not have been influential at the time
   by any means but there are enough hints that the printed page is not
   sacrosanct.
   If we improvise there is the pitfall of those rightly saying "but that
   note/passage/instrument/combination wasn't played". On the other hand
   there is the stronger suggestion for lutenists that you must learn to
   improvise in their tradition (notes and instruments). We, in the 21st
   century must thread that needle.
   So, yes: that passage feels anachronistic but only because we --now--
   can't see what possibilities they felt were available to them or the
   demands made of them.
   Sean

   On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 10:25 AM Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 Dear Joachim,
 yes I know, I have played all of those. But really I am interested
 in
 this kind of off-beat figuration that thrives on thirds.
 Dowland and maybe Huwet used those sometimes. Huwet was also from
 the
 Netherlands and I read Dowland befriended Huwet in Wolfenbüttel.
 I don't know who influenced whom, but maybe you know?
 On 11.08.19 18:36, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:
 > Dear Tristan,
 >
 > just in short (I am traveling and I don't have the sources at
 hand): You may not find exactly the same accord arpeggios (another
 anachronism, ;) ), but you will find similar things in different
 sets of variations on Conde Claros and other tunes and models.
 >
 > Best
 >
 > Joachim
 >
 >
 > -Original-Nachricht-
 > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Anachronistic playing style - Adriaenssen
 > Datum: 2019-08-10T12:55:41+0200
 > Von: "Tristan von Neumann" <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
 > An: "[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 >
 > Dear Joachim,
 >
 >
 > I used this term to give the idea for someone who can't just look
 at it,
 > you know this is erbsenzahlery :)
 >
 > And where is the same accuracy when trying to show me an example?
 ;-)))
 >
 > By Condes Claros you mean those of Valderrabano I guess?
 >
 > They are fancy, but not that fancy. I was looking for the exact
 figuration.
 >
 > Trying to explain the figuration by saying that variations need
 > variation (...duh!) doesn't really tell me anything. ;-)
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > On 10.08.19 11:23, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:
 >> Dear Tristan,
 >>
 >> to be truely Alberti one would have to be a bass, ;), and it's
 anachronistic to connect such figurations to Alberti because the
 source precedes the time of Alberti (at least a bit).
 >>
 >> You will find similar things in Spanish variations of e.g. Conde
 claros. I think one could describe what we find there as a possible
 solution to the question how to write (or play or improvise)
 variations on a rather slow moving progression, if you have the
 scale runs already through.
 >>
 >> Best
 >>
 >> Joachim
 >>
 >>
 >> -Original-Nachricht-
 >> Betreff: [LUTE] Anachronistic playing style - Adriaenssen
 >> Datum: 2019-08-09T02:38:53+0200
 >> Von: "Tristan von Neumann" <[5]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
 >> An: "[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 >>
 >> The "Passomeso in Basso" from Adriaenssen's Pratum Musicum 1584
 features
 >> two 

[LUTE] Re: Anachronistic playing style - Adriaenssen

[Sean Smith]

   As far back (at least) as Paladin's 2nd Libro Primo there seems to be a
   tradition(?) of the Galliard Antico switching to a major key for the
   Represse. section. In the Adrianssen it not only switches to major but
   alternates between the I and the V. This interestingly echos the
   Traditorella (see the Munich 266 ms) where the represse alternates
   between I and V.
   Getting back to Adr. there are dozens of variations on the Antico (per
   book!) and I get the idea that if it wasn't to be danced to then it was
   wallpaper music. (V. Gallilei boasts of hundreds in his Intavolatura)
   Rather fancy sometimes but background music in that I can't imagine
   anyone paying attention to all those variations beside the players
   themselves. And unless you can rattle through those passaggi like, say,
   Alan Holdsworth or John McLaughlin, it'll be hard to keep up with a
   spirited galliard dancer. So maybe it was player "fun" or even
   excercises; hard to say. They may even fit together as duets, trios or
   beyond. Once you had the progression memorized and a few tricks up your
   sleeve there's nothing stopping you from playing all night, solo or
   otherwise. So maybe it was "show off" music, too.
   The dances in 266 are a bit easier and I'm sure a good player like P.P.
   Borono or Marco would be able to keep up with even the rowdiest of
   dancers. Add a cittern or two, another lute or three and a gamba and
   you might even make enough noise to compete with the boots, babble and
   brandy. At this point the meantone argument becomes moot.
   And seeing your current note, you're right. I must have been thinking
   of the '92 Adr. The collections of Anticos in Phalese make an
   interesting progression from '63 through the Adriaenssens. You'll find
   yet more overlap between the '71 and the Adr '84. And how about that
   Passemezzo ficta? Is he just messing with us now?
   my slack 2 cents, Sean
   ps And those variations you first mentioned would be a nice texture
   under a gamba or fiddle solo.

   --


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[LUTE] Re: octave strings

[Sean Smith]

   I see what you're getting at--8ve and fundamental reversed--but the
   illustrator has continued the practice through to the 2nd course. I
   doubt it would have an octave on the 4th course at this point in time,
   either. I'm not sure how much faith I should put into this painting.
   Sean

   On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 11:42 AM Lex Eisenhardt
   <[1]lex.eisenha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Anyone tried this method of octave string placement?
[1][2]https://www.thekremercollection.com/theodoor-rombouts/
 (press +
to enlarge)
--
 References
1. [3]https://www.thekremercollection.com/theodoor-rombouts/
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:lex.eisenha...@gmail.com
   2. https://www.thekremercollection.com/theodoor-rombouts/
   3. https://www.thekremercollection.com/theodoor-rombouts/
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Plucking Room

[Sean Smith]

   There's:
   Szz [not worthy of the word]
   Sstain [not quite enough]
   Sustain [just right]
   Sustaaayayayayannn [too much]
   Sustain-Z [electric guitar].
   My understanding is that it's a spectrum and we're a picky, fickle
   bunch.

   On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 1:57 PM Roman Turovsky
   <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:

 aren't lutenists switching to gut out of sustainophobia?
 RT
 On 6/30/2019 3:46 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:
 > I find that sustain is a major factor in the choice of a lute.
 Obviously we are not talking grand piano sustain, but an instrument
 with good sustain makes all the difference, especially for playing
 polyphonic music.
 > Clearly appropriate acoustics can make or break a lute, (however
 good the instrument and the player) but in the right environment the
 sound can also carry astonishingly well.
 >
 > There might actually be a correlation between sustain and the
 amount of dishing. A well respected lutenist, with vast experience
 of teaching internationally, observed that lutes with inordinate
 dishing (a practice which is apparently common in some parts), and
 so with the strings at a significant height above the soundboard,
 frequently lacked sustain.
 >
 > Best,
 > Matthew
 >
 >
 >
 >> On Jun 30, 2019, at 19:51, Ron Andrico <[2]praelu...@hotmail.com>
 wrote:
 >> Sustain does not and probably never did factor into the plucked
 string sound of the lute.   The sound is immediate and rich in
 overtones, but ephemeral and does not travel well.
 >> RA
 >>
 __
 >
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: De Visee

[Sean Smith]

   After I pare my nails I step outside and find a brick sidewalk or wall
   and sweep the back of my hand over it--the opposite direction you'd use
   to scratch your fingers on the blackboard to irritate others. It's a
   crude ceramic abrasive surface but it works. I could spend more time on
   it for perfection, I suppose and it's a technology I and my renaissance
   counterparts have/had available.
   Sean

   On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 1:46 PM John Mardinly <[1]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
   wrote:

Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good
 nail
polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
 would
love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
 lenses
and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
 chamois
stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
 better
in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
 those who
play with nails.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
 <[1][2]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
wrote:
Hahahaha good point!
To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
 remember
you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of years
 to
polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
<[2][3]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
 Dear All:
  Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
 build
  lutes and
 craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to file
 and
  polish
 their nails.
 Jim Stimson
 Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
  Original message 
 From: John Mardinly <[3][4]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
 Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
 To: Roland Hayes <[4][5]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
 Cc: Lute List <[5][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
 More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of the
  modern
 files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly prepared
  nails give
 a terrible result for both sound and playability. My teacher
 back
  in
 1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
 prepared
  his
 nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a
 saw-cut
  slot in
 it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block.
 The
  nail was
 then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot,
 which
  acted as
 a track to guide the nail. When I began to study metallurgy
 and
  the art
 of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
  microstructure,
 I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the nails
 that
  were
 quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
 A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
 > On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes
  <[6][7]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
 wrote:
 >
 >Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as
 I
 understand,
 >but
 >
 >I have always thought his lute pieces were merely
  arrangements of
 >guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we can
 establish
  the
 use
 >of nails.
 >
 >And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then he most
 likely
  played
 >theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails had yet
 to
  arrive on
 the
 >scene.
 >
 >Get [1]Outlook for Android
 >
 >This message is intended only for the use of the
 individual
  or
 entity
 >to which it is addressed, and may contain information
 that is
 >privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure
 under
 applicable
 >law. If the reader of this message is not the intended
  recipient,
 or
 >the employee or agent responsible for delivering the
 message
  to the
 >intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
  dissemination,
 >distribution, or copying of this communication is
 strictly
 prohibited.
 >If you have received this communication in error,
 please
  notify us
 >immediately by telephone and return the 

[LUTE] Adriaensen 1600

[Sean Smith]

   I found in the recent digitization of the LSA microfilm library, a
   second printing of E. Adriansen's Pratum musicum longe 1584 printed in
   1600 with different music. I downloaded it but find it difficult to
   read.
   Is there a digitized facsimile (no microfilm middleman) available?
   Modern edition?? Since it's not in Brown I don't know where the
   original resides.
   Thanks in advance,
   Sean

   --


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[LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines?

[Sean Smith]

   I find this type discussion fascinating. I was just looking at the
   Adriaensen books and noticed Phalese & Bellere's first use of 7th and
   8th course: an open 7th course was -a- (w/ a line going through it
   since P always ciphered "in" the line instead of "in" the space). But
   an open 8th course was --a-- , i.e. a hyphen on either side. For years
   I had never noticed the subtle difference and assumed one was expected
   to change the 7th course as necessary.
   I suspect the Phalese prints from the 1540's through the end of the
   century were fairly popular among at least amateurs. By not requiring
   page turns for the most part after his switch from ottavo to quarto he
   could market to those who didn't feel it necessary to memorize their
   material.
   They were also a digest of the more popular and often easier
   intabulations alongside--or followed in the next publication by--the
   most difficult.   We can also follow many broad evolutions of
   harmonic/ficta trends, intabulation styles and repertory. Food for
   another thread . . . or thesis project.
   Sean

   On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:04 AM Alain Veylit
   <[1]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote:

 Printers were very dependent on the fonts they had - In the Ballard
 book, the bar lines clearly use a single font (i.e. piece of
 metal...)
 with a vertical bar and 6 horizontal dashes extending on both sides.
 In
 Dowland's Book of ayrs, the barlines extend up and down from the
 staff
 in notation, but are too short in the tablature. See:
 [2]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/img/can-she-excuse.png
 It seems to me probable that the printers used at least some of the
 same
 type case for both notation and tablature (i.e. whenever possible
 ...).
 A 5-line tablature staff and a 5-line notation staff are not that
 different, after all. This could considerably reduce the cost of
 production as well as space in the workshop. This is just
 speculation on
 my part, but it could be interesting to look at prints with both
 notation and tablature (Il Fronimo, English books of airs, as well
 as
 Phalese) . Printers fonts were extremely valuable, and if I remember
 correctly could be used for decades if not centuries.
 Note the same "fishbone" pattern for barlines as in Ballard and
 Booke of
 Ayres in notation in Phalese's Luculentum theatrum musicum - that
 extend
 both above and below the staff.
 (facsimile:
 [3]http://rosdok.uni-rostock.de/resolve/id/rosdok_document_00894
 2)
 On 5/4/19 9:06 AM, Denys Stephens wrote:
 > Dear Alain,
 > Thanks! Thanks also for the link to the Ballard print - it really
 is very elegant. Single impression tablature had come a long way
 from Attaingnant's first ground breaking prints. One more point
 about Phalese crossed my mind, which is that in prints such as
 'Hortus Musarum' he pirates pieces from Italian prints and converts
 them from the six line Italian tablature to his own five line
 system, which I think makes it clear that he is deliberately
 choosing the five line format despite   being aware that the Italian
 prints use six. In Hortus Musarum the efficient use of space
 together with its portrait format means that longer pieces can be
 accommodated on one opening of the print. So for example a fantasia
 by Marco Dall'Aquila that requires two page turns in Casteliono fits
 on one and a half pages and still leaves room for another short
 fantasia. From a swift thumb through of my copy, it looks like there
 are no pieces in Hortus Musarum that require a page turn. Very
 player fri!
  endly! This seems to be an intentional improvement by Phalese on
 his earlier lute prints where he used the landscape format commonly
 found in Italian lute prints - this does result in longer pieces
 requiring page turns.
 >
 > Thanks again & best wishes,
 >
 > Denys
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > From: Alain Veylit <[4]al...@musickshandmade.com>
 > Sent: 04 May 2019 01:19
 > To: Denys Stephens <[5]denyssteph...@sky.com>;
 [6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: French tab prints - why 5 lines?
 >
 > Great explanation, Denys :)
 >
 > Paper was the most expensive part of publishing for a long time,
 and I saw somewhere that German tab was appreciated for saving
 vertical space on the page.
 >
 > I am transcribing pieces from Dowland's First booke of Ayres, and
 I find it amazing what those printers managed to do with the tools
 they had.
 > Though, esthetically speaking, Ballard has my preference:
 > [7]https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b52506298g/f15.image .
 It's a work of art as much as the music, and it probably did come
 cheap...
 >
 > By the way, Phalese was Dutch, not French. 

[LUTE] Re: Reymann

[Sean Smith]

   Jo Bringmann"s list of facsimiles lists two sources for the Cythara
   Sacra.
   *[1]http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links

   On Wed, May 1, 2019, 11:28 PM Mathias Rösel
   <[2]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote:

Not easy to read, c and e almost undiscernible at many places.
Digitalised copies would be great help.
There must be facsimile files of Reymann online somewhere,
 though,
because I've g got one.
Mathias

 __
Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
--- Original-Nachricht ---
Von: Susan Price
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Reymann
Datum: 02.05.2019, 4:23 Uhr
An: [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
I see that OMI has a nice facsimile of Reymann for $111.00.
 Should I
purchase?
Susan
 Original message 
From: Dan Winheld <[2][4]dwinh...@lmi.net>
Date: 5/1/19 7:27 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: magnus andersson <[3][5]maan7...@yahoo.com>, Tristan von
 Neumann
<[4][6]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>, [5][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Reymann
Congratulations Tristan and Magnus- you have gotten me interested
 in
getting Reymann's "Noctes"; unfortunately my eyesight has
 degraded to
the point where I can no longer read facsimiles. Are there any
 modern
typeset editions? (Any tab system or pitch notation- just has to
 be
legible to ancient eyes)
Thanks for any leads-
Dan
On 4/26/2019 10:19 PM, magnus andersson wrote:
> Dear Tristan,
>
> I have played some Reymann in concert. His Noctes collection is
indeed
> one of the finest collections of lute music that's come down to
us.
>
> His galliardas are among the the most virtuouso pieces in the
whole
> repertoire.
>
> He must have been a very accomplished musician!
>
> I hope to record some of his music in the future. His Cythara
sacra is
> a great pendant to Noctes. Much more meditative and less
technically
> demanding.
>
> Best,
>
> Magnus
> [1]Skickat frï ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ 
¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½n
 Yahoo Mail
fï ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ 
½Ã¯ ¿ ½r iPhone
>
> Den fredag, april 26, 2019, 10:29 em, skrev Tristan von Neumann
> <[6][8]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>:
>
> Just got my hands on Noctes Musicae 1598 by Matthaeus Reymann.
>
> Has anyone played it?
>
> I am amazed that there is absolutely no recording of this
 amazing
very
>
> original music.
>
> The collection has huge choral and other fantasies with lots of
great
>
> ideas, and especially pavans that rival the fantastic treatment
of
>
> Daniel Batchelar's - these aren't dances anymore, but fantasies
ordered
>
> by the pavan model.
>
> The best thing: the difficulty is not that high compared to the
effect:
>
> the fingering is very logical and doesn't distract from the
beauty of
>
> the pieces.
>
> Huge recommendation.
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
>
> [2][7][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. [8][10]https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
> 2.
 [9][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
--
 References
1.
 [12]https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_an
 droid_sendmail_footer
2. mailto:[13]dwinh...@lmi.net
3. mailto:[14]maan7...@yahoo.com
4. mailto:[15]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
5. mailto:[16]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:[17]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
7. [18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
8. [19]https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
9. [20]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links
   2. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de
   3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
   5. mailto:maan7...@yahoo.com
   6. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   8. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  10. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
  11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  12. 

[LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[Sean Smith]

   Finding one's own "soundspace" within an ensemble is incredibly
   important. To that end, one of the first mixed orchestras, the English
   broken consort, is a marvel of many instruments each contributing but
   rarely occluding.

   On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Robin Irvine <[1]rf...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:

 Yes, I agree with all that. It is may not actually be much louder,
 but I do think that because of all the harmonic effects Sean
 describes it 'cuts through' continuous sounds (e.g. singer(s) or
 viols) better. And if you move your hand nearer the bridge it is
 possible to give the string a much fiercer pluck, so you can
 actually produce more sound.
 I agree with Martin that once the number of strings rises above 8 it
 is easier to play with thumb out, but as has been said by others in
 this stream, most theorbo players today manage fine using thumb
 inside, so I'm not convinced that this was the major factor driving
 this really quite striking change in how the lute was plucked. I
 think it was the different sound that suited better the changing
 role of the instrument.
 My two ha'penny'orth
 Robin
 On 06/03/2019, 21:00, "Sean Smith" <[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 on behalf of [3]lutesm...@gmail.com> wrote:
 Â  Â  Â  Â To say that plucking the string closer to the bridge is
 "louder" opens
 Â  Â  Â  Â a few cans of worms here. To pluck the string at any
 place along its
 Â  Â  Â  Â length from 12th fret to near the bridge is to put the
 same amount of
 Â  Â  Â  Â energy into the string but introduces various overtones
 depending on
 Â  Â  Â  Â where it happens. Introducing higher overtones by
 plucking near the
 Â  Â  Â  Â bridge fools the ear into thinking it's louder - in some
 frequencies,
 Â  Â  Â  Â yes, it is - but at the expense of less energy going into
 the
 Â  Â  Â  Â fundamental note.
 Â  Â  Â  Â Do the experiment: pluck with the same force a single
 bass string from
 Â  Â  Â  Â anywhere from over the twelfth fret to the rose and to
 within
 Â  Â  Â  Â milimeters of the bridge and see how the volume changes
 in relation to
 Â  Â  Â  Â the fundamental to the overtones. As you get right up
 next to the
 Â  Â  Â  Â bridge it's almost impossible to engage the fundamental
 note of any
 Â  Â  Â  Â string while under the 12th it is less complex and
 uninteresting. It's
 Â  Â  Â  Â simply a choice of how much of which.
 Â  Â  Â  Â If you were to sight a high-speed camera up a theorbo
 bass string from
 Â  Â  Â  Â the bridge and pluck close to the bridge you would see
 that overtone
 Â  Â  Â  Â shoot up the string and back and barely engage the
 fundamental
 Â  Â  Â  Â vibration. That overtone is the quickest to dissipate
 into the
 Â  Â  Â  Â instrument and other entropies. When I was a kid hanging
 around
 Â  Â  Â  Â sailboats I made a game of this hitting rigging and
 mooring lines with
 Â  Â  Â  Â a mallet much to my father's dismay.
 Â  Â  Â  Â To be fair, string resistance also plays into where we
 choose to pluck.
 Â  Â  Â  Â There doesn't seem to be enough resistance for at the
 12th while too
 Â  Â  Â  Â near the bridge is all resistance, like strings of iron.
 Â  Â  Â  Â When bass strings were fairly dull (i.e., when large
 diameter
 Â  Â  Â  Â monofilament and earliest roped strings dissipated energy
 quickly and
 Â  Â  Â  Â yielded few overtones) the addition of an octave string
 introduced
 Â  Â  Â  Â overtones making it more palatable. As lengths and string
 tech
 Â  Â  Â  Â grew/improved the octave string could be dismissed as we
 see in the
 Â  Â  Â  Â loss of the 4th octave and later the others. To introduce
 a brighter
 Â  Â  Â  Â sound (more overtones) one played nearer the bridge.
 (Fortunately, the
 Â  Â  Â  Â less complex course, unisons/single string, also afforded
 more hand
 Â  Â  Â  Â positions) But there is a cost here. That bright sound
 that cuts
 Â  Â  Â  Â through the orchestra on the attack will destroy itself
 as the
 Â  Â  Â  Â overtones cause the note to decay quicker or simply rob
 the fundamental
 Â  Â  Â  Â tone of energy in the first place.
 Â  Â  Â  Â Another factor in the decay of the note is the size and
 immobility of
 Â  Â  Â  Â the instrument. A small lute will quickly absorb and
 dissipate the
 Â  Â  Â  Â energy of that string. Clever players found that if you
 don't let the
 Â  Â  Â  Â instrument sympathetically vibrate, the string will ring
 louder and
 Â  Â  Â

[LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[Sean Smith]

   So true, Robert (and Martyn). The loss of thumb-index alternation also
   led to the loss of strong-weak beats within passaggi. Granted both
   thumb and index are expected to engage both strings, it's inevitable
   that one would win out being stronger and on the fundamental side.
   When index-middle played the same strings (and often only one of them)
   that dimension is lost. Eventually the prevailing aesthetic decided
   this was better than before.
   Sean

   On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 9:20 AM Robin Irvine <[1]rf...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:

 There is another important aspect of this shift in hand position,
 and that is the sound. Try playing your lute with thumb under, near
 the rose, and then thumb out near the bridge. With the latter it
 makes a much more penetrating sound which carries better against a
 singer or other instruments, and would also carry better in a larger
 hall/room. This surely is an important part of the change in hand
 position. And it is almost impossible to play thumb/finger runs
 thumb out with octave stringing , so the introduction of unison
 strings on the lower 6 courses might have been a factor - it allows
 this shift in hand position, which was perhaps driven in part by the
 changing uses of the lute, to take place. After all, wasn't the
 original reason for creating the theorbo not least to give the
 instrument more 'welly'? So, as Martin says, playing a theorbo with
 thumb inside kind of defeats the object!
 Robin Irvine
 On 06/03/2019, 16:51, "Martin Shepherd"
 <[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of [3]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
 wrote:
 Robinson recommends thumb-under: "...with your thumb behind your
 fingers". (sig.Bii).
 Waissel (1592) also recommends thumb-under - he says it's
 faster.
 But for what it's worth, I think thumb out was very common by
 1600, and
 easily the most common technique by 1610.   For me, the
 transition seems
 to be driven by the number of courses - it seems OK to play a 7c
 lute
 with either technique, but once you get to 8 or more courses it
 really
 seems to demand thumb out.
 Vallet and ML both give two dots for middle finger, one dot for
 index,
 and in both it is clear that most running passages are played
 alternating the two.   In faster passages, where only single
 dots are
 present, I think we can infer thumb-index alternation but with
 the thumb
 outside, not inside.
 Martin
 On 06/03/2019 17:02, Alain Veylit wrote:
 > Thomas Robinson's Schoole of musicke gives very detailed
 fingering
 > information   and might be interesting to check also on this
 topic.
 >
 > I personally remain convinced that there was a transitional
 period
 > (1600-1610ish)   when both techniques were in use -- possibly
 in the
 > same piece. Single dots on the 5th and 6th course in Vallet or
 Besard
 > or ML could provide some element of proof, perhaps ...
 >
 > Rainer has worked a lot on Vallet recently, may be he can
 share his
 > findings on this topic??
 >
 >
 > On 3/6/19 5:22 AM, Andreas Schlegel wrote:
 >> Dear Ron,
 >>
 >>> Am 06.03.2019 um 13:59 schrieb Ron Andrico
 <[4]praelu...@hotmail.com>:
 >>>
 >>> Perhaps the mis-remembered quotation is a conflation of
 Besard and
 >>> Vallet, who recommended thumb-index for fast passages.
 Nevertheless,
 >>> music from around 1600 forward in time should be played
 with the
 >>> thumb
 >>> out if we are to follow the written advice and the
 iconography.   I
 >>> still see far too may baroque lute and theorbo players
 using
 >>> thumb-under, which is patently absurd given both the
 historical
 >>> precedent and the physical layout of extended bass
 instruments.
 >>> Isn't
 >>> it about time lute players moved forward from the
 guitarist versus
 >>> lutenist nonsense from the 1970s and played according to
 actual
 >>> historical examples?
 >> Thatââ¬â¢s exactly the goal of our summer course in
 Chiavenna (with
 >> Paul Beier, Vinicius Perez and me):
 >>- Understanding historical lute techniques
 >> - Reading original sources and understanding the kinds of
 information
 >> found in them
 >> - Establishing a repertoire illustrative of historical
 techniques
 >> - Studying original lutes and lute construction (with Klaus
 Jacobsen)
 >> - Developing an awareness of our goals as musicians
 >>
 >> See here:
 >> [5]http://www.musico.it/chiavennabaroque/
  

[LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[Sean Smith]

   To say that plucking the string closer to the bridge is "louder" opens
   a few cans of worms here. To pluck the string at any place along its
   length from 12th fret to near the bridge is to put the same amount of
   energy into the string but introduces various overtones depending on
   where it happens. Introducing higher overtones by plucking near the
   bridge fools the ear into thinking it's louder - in some frequencies,
   yes, it is - but at the expense of less energy going into the
   fundamental note.
   Do the experiment: pluck with the same force a single bass string from
   anywhere from over the twelfth fret to the rose and to within
   milimeters of the bridge and see how the volume changes in relation to
   the fundamental to the overtones. As you get right up next to the
   bridge it's almost impossible to engage the fundamental note of any
   string while under the 12th it is less complex and uninteresting. It's
   simply a choice of how much of which.
   If you were to sight a high-speed camera up a theorbo bass string from
   the bridge and pluck close to the bridge you would see that overtone
   shoot up the string and back and barely engage the fundamental
   vibration. That overtone is the quickest to dissipate into the
   instrument and other entropies. When I was a kid hanging around
   sailboats I made a game of this hitting rigging and mooring lines with
   a mallet much to my father's dismay.
   To be fair, string resistance also plays into where we choose to pluck.
   There doesn't seem to be enough resistance for at the 12th while too
   near the bridge is all resistance, like strings of iron.
   When bass strings were fairly dull (i.e., when large diameter
   monofilament and earliest roped strings dissipated energy quickly and
   yielded few overtones) the addition of an octave string introduced
   overtones making it more palatable. As lengths and string tech
   grew/improved the octave string could be dismissed as we see in the
   loss of the 4th octave and later the others. To introduce a brighter
   sound (more overtones) one played nearer the bridge. (Fortunately, the
   less complex course, unisons/single string, also afforded more hand
   positions) But there is a cost here. That bright sound that cuts
   through the orchestra on the attack will destroy itself as the
   overtones cause the note to decay quicker or simply rob the fundamental
   tone of energy in the first place.
   Another factor in the decay of the note is the size and immobility of
   the instrument. A small lute will quickly absorb and dissipate the
   energy of that string. Clever players found that if you don't let the
   instrument sympathetically vibrate, the string will ring louder and
   certainly longer. And so the got more volume and/or longer ring from
   resting it against the table. Durer's sketch of an angel setting his
   lute on a pedestal is using the same trick as the painting of the
   French theorbo player in a group pushing his lute against the table.
   Needless to say, the theorbo and lutes had a hard time competing in
   sound with strings actually incorporated into the table: the
   harpsichord and even heavier (less overtone ridden) pianoforte.
   Sometimes I think we should return the monochord to lute theory.
   my 4 cents; carry on, Sean

   On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 9:20 AM Robin Irvine <[1]rf...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:

 There is another important aspect of this shift in hand position,
 and that is the sound. Try playing your lute with thumb under, near
 the rose, and then thumb out near the bridge. With the latter it
 makes a much more penetrating sound which carries better against a
 singer or other instruments, and would also carry better in a larger
 hall/room. This surely is an important part of the change in hand
 position. And it is almost impossible to play thumb/finger runs
 thumb out with octave stringing , so the introduction of unison
 strings on the lower 6 courses might have been a factor - it allows
 this shift in hand position, which was perhaps driven in part by the
 changing uses of the lute, to take place. After all, wasn't the
 original reason for creating the theorbo not least to give the
 instrument more 'welly'? So, as Martin says, playing a theorbo with
 thumb inside kind of defeats the object!
 Robin Irvine
 On 06/03/2019, 16:51, "Martin Shepherd"
 <[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of [3]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
 wrote:
 Robinson recommends thumb-under: "...with your thumb behind your
 fingers". (sig.Bii).
 Waissel (1592) also recommends thumb-under - he says it's
 faster.
 But for what it's worth, I think thumb out was very common by
 1600, and
 easily the most common technique by 1610.   For me, the
 transition seems
 to be driven by the number of courses - it seems OK to play a 7c
 lute
 with 

[LUTE] Re: Gut Diapasons >180cm

[Sean Smith]

   Edward: Check your string adjacent if possible and see how much stretch
   it actually uses. Roland's advice sounds plausible. At 72cm I have a
   little stretch (and less on the 60cm) but you should have ~3x as much
   at 180cm. That may be all you need.
   Although I don't have an extended neck, I do this all the time with gut
   strings. I've probably saved quite a few dollars over the years. For
   the top 3 courses, it's so gratifying to get two lengths from a 120cm
   string on a 60cm lute.
   It doesn't work quite as well for roped strings but there the secret is
   to not cut a too-long string but to wrap the remainder around the
   pegbox. Later, just reverse the string. (yes, I realize this isn't
   applicable in the giraffes's cases but I hope it is helpful to others)
   Sean
   Sean

   On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 8:42 AM Roland Hayes
   <[1]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org> wrote:

You could try tying a leader to the peg box end and hope that as
 you
bring it to pitch the leader ends up wrapped around the peg and
 the
string makes it over the nut and reaches your pitch.
Get [1]Outlook for Android

 __
From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 on behalf
of Edward C. Yong <[4]edward.y...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 9:41:25 PM
To: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Gut Diapasons >180cm
hi everyone,
where does one find gut strings for diapasons longer than 180 cm?
 a
young friend has diapasons that are 182.5cm, and the Aquila 180cm
strings are too short to fit!
thanks for the help :)
best,
Edward
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[LUTE] Re: Codex carminum gallicorum, Vmhs 87, Uppsala

[Sean Smith]

   Awesome!
   Thanks, everyone!
   Sean

   On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 9:56 PM Dmitry Medvedev
   <[1]d.p.medve...@gmail.com> wrote:

  From RISM (somewhat ordered):
 f.1   Ce n'est rien que de fuir (Anonymus)
 f.1v-2 Super flumina Babylonis (La Fage, Jean de)
 f.2   Je ne me confesseray point (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.2v Si Dieu vouloit pour chose (Janequin, Clément)
 f.2v-3 Plût à Dieu que fusse arondelle (Anonymus)
 f.3   ?E tan bon credit? (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.3   Grâce et vertu (Le Heurteur, Guillaume)
 f.4   Voulant amour sans parler (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.4v Ayant fuy pour aymer (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.5   En lieu du bien (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.5v Une bergère un jour (Marle, Nicolas de)
 f.5v-6 Frisque et gaillard (Clemens non Papa, Jacobus)
 f.6   Nous voyons que les hommes (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.6v Vostra fui e sarò mentre ch'io viva (Berchem,
 Jacquet de)
 f.6v Non ch'io non voglio mai altro pensiero (Arcadelt,
 Jacques)
 f.7   Nova donna m'apparve di beltà tale (Arcadelt,
 Jacques)
 f.7v Quanta beltà quanta grazia e splendore (Arcadelt,
 Jacques)
 f.7v Ahi se la donna mia (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.8   Fa mi pur guerr'amor (Corteccia, Francesco)
 f.8v Comment mes yeux avés vous (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.8v-9 Martin menoit son porceau (Janequin, Clément)
 f.9   Martin menoit son porceau (Janequin, Clément)
 f.9v O bella man (Janequin, Clément)
 f.9v-10   Corro la fresca e mattutina rosa (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.10 Giovane donna sott'un verde lauro (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.10v   Che puoi tu farmi amore (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.10v-11 La rondinella garula leggiera (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.11 Dolor sel mie dolor altri non credo (Ruffo,
 Vincenzo)
 f.11v   Di cocenti sospir l'aria accendea (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.11v-12 Pastorella d'amor (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.12 Non son qual semper fui (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.12v   Pungente dardo (Berchem, Jacquet de)
 f.12v   O le grand bien (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.13v   Lasciar il velo o per sol'o per ombra (Arcadelt,
 Jacques)
 f.13v   Chiare fresch'e dolce acque (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.13v-14 Da bei rami scendea (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.14 S'egli è pur destino (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.14v   Ancor che col partire (Rore, Cipriano de)
 f.14v-15 Deh ferma amor (Rore, Cipriano de)
 f.15 O passi sparsi o pensier (Festa, Sebastiano)
 f.15v   O mort ultimo fin (Gero, Jan)
 f.15v-16 Misera invan mi doglio et mi lamento (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.16 Hor che fugat sol (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.16v   Fiere silvestre (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.17 Non sicuri del ciel (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.17v   Castigh amor costeij (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.18 Ameni colli e voi fioriti campi (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.18v   Ben mille nott' ho già passato (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.18v-19 O fortunato che son altre rime (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.19 Monti selve fontane (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.19v   Igiustissim amor perché sì raro (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.19v-20 S'alcun vi mira fiso (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.20 Alcun non può saper (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.20v   Sì gioioso mi fan i dolor miei (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.20v-21 Tanti fonti in un giorno (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.21 Non è maggior dolor (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.21v   O vuoi che per fuggir il cald'estino (Ruffo,
 Vincenzo)
 f.21v-22 Consumandomi vo per pogg'e valle (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.22 Ma di chi debbo lamentarmi (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.22v   In picciol tempo pass'ogni gran pioggia (Ruffo,
 Vincenzo)
 f.22v-23 Sel sol sa sta e lass i giorni bruj (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.23 Ma perché vola il tempo (Ruffo, Vincenzo)
 f.23v   Pour heur en amour demander (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.23v-24 Dieu des amants qui mon feu (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.24v   Les yeux qui me sçeurent prendre (Arcadelt,
 Jacques)
 f.24v   Tant que mon oeil (Arcadelt, Jacques)
 f.24v-25 De qui plus tôt maintenant (Sandrin)
 f.25v-26 Qui souhaite avoir tout le plaisir (De Bussy)
 f.26 Voulant honeur que de vous je mal sens (Sandrin)
 f.26v-27 Il ne se trouve en amitié (Sandrin)
 f.27 Qual'anim'engniorante (Anonymus)
 f.27v   Con suave parlar (Verdelot, Philippe)
 

[LUTE] Codex carminum gallicorum, Vmhs 87, Uppsala

[Sean Smith]

   I'm not able to read all the titles to the intabulated works. Is there
   a description of the manuscript with a listing of contents available on
   the web?
   It is a recent addition to Jo Bringmann's facsimile page:
   [1]http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links
   Thanks in advance, Sean

   --

References

   1. http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links


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[LUTE] Re: Belly fret height

[Sean Smith]

   I just took off the highest get fret (10th) and found it to be an .85mm
   diameter. I'll bet that's been on there since the beginning.
   I'll replace it with a .58 or so and take those belly frets down to
   whatever they need to be. I don't mind thicker frets near the nut but
   .85 at the tenth just doesn't sound right to me.

   On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 1:20 PM Sean Smith <[1]lutesm...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   I've always been plagued with a bit of fret buzz on my ren. guitar and
   was looking at the belly frets as a culprit. Measuring fret 12 with my
   calipers I found a height of .95 mm. (Belly surface to top of the fret)
   Could I safely bring this down?
   The belly surface-to-midstring diameter is about 3.65mm.
   Would a goal of ~.6mm be better? Higher? Lower? Should I sand with a
   file or scrape with a blade?
   I think the builder was thinking to use a standard size fret (or
   minimal variation) throughout the neck but it doesn't seem to be
   working out.
   Sean

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[LUTE] Belly fret height

[Sean Smith]

   I've always been plagued with a bit of fret buzz on my ren. guitar and
   was looking at the belly frets as a culprit. Measuring fret 12 with my
   calipers I found a height of .95 mm. (Belly surface to top of the fret)
   Could I safely bring this down?
   The belly surface-to-midstring diameter is about 3.65mm.
   Would a goal of ~.6mm be better? Higher? Lower? Should I sand with a
   file or scrape with a blade?
   I think the builder was thinking to use a standard size fret (or
   minimal variation) throughout the neck but it doesn't seem to be
   working out.
   Sean

   --


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[LUTE] Re: The origins of tablature

[Sean Smith]

   (sorry to send it twice, Rainer, but once more for the greater list)
   I would suggest the article by Crawford Young in Vol. 52 #1 of the LSA
   Quarterly:
   "Tablature before 1400? Reflections on Lute-specific notation and
   Boethian roots"
   Sean
   [cleardot.gif]

   On Sun, Oct 7, 2018 at 9:58 AM Rainer <[1]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
   wrote:

 Dear lute netters,
 I have often asked myselfe why lute tablature was invented.
 The "classical" answer seems to be because lutenists started to play
 polyphonic music (or at least music with more than one voice).
 This seems to be a very poor argument since - apart from German
 organ tablature - music for keyboard was NOT notated in tablature.
 Any ideas anybody?
 Rainer
 I seem to remember that MANY years ago somebody claimed to have
 found 14th century French lute tablature which was refuted soon.
 But hasn't this been discussed again recently?
 Somewhere else (where?) somebody mentioned that tablature may have
 been used much earlier in Arabian countries.
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[LUTE] Re: vocal scores

[Sean Smith]

   I can drop by the library on my way home this afternoon ... but I'll
   check this space in the case someone beats me to it.
   Sean

   On Thu, Oct 4, 2018, 2:15 PM Martin Shepherd <[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
   wrote:

 Hi All,
 I don't have access to a library.   Can anyone provide me with
 (modern
 edition) vocal scores for three works by Josquin?   They are:
 Pater noster (Smijers ed., Motteten, Deel III, Bundel 36, p.47.
 Ave Maria (same source, p.54)
 Stabat Mater (same source, p.51)
 (I've looked in all the usual places - IMSLP and Choral Wiki - and
 they're not there).
 Many thanks for any assistance,
 Martin
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[LUTE] Re: Nigel's Francesco vol 2

[Sean Smith]

   Then it would appear I've played a part in the confusion as well. I
   hadn't understood that Ed hadn't heard it. My apologies. Sean

   On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 5:37 AM Edward Martin
   <[1]edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear ones,
I was asked to provide the answer to the list, so here it is:
Nigel plays on both kinds of instrument: approximately 2/3 of the
pieces on lute; the rest on viola da Mano (vihuela).
-- Forwarded message -
From: Christopher Stetson <[1][2]christophertstet...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Nigel's Francesco vol 2
To: Edward Martin <[2][3]edvihuel...@gmail.com>
Edward,
Can you share the answer to the list, for the curious?
Thanks,
Chris.
On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 9:24 PM, Edward Martin
<[3][4]edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote:
 Dear ones,
 My inquiry was answered, thanks to Steven, Steve, and
 Andrew.
  Thanks
 to all 3!
 --
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [4][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
 References
1. mailto:[6]christophertstet...@gmail.com
2. mailto:[7]edvihuel...@gmail.com
3. mailto:[8]edvihuel...@gmail.com
4. [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
   3. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   4. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
   7. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   8. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Nigel's Francesco vol 2

[Sean Smith]

   Thanks, Antonio. You answered my question a long time ago about how the
   vihuela (and lute) appeared in the Don Quixote. Nice to hear from you
   -s

   On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 2:05 PM Antonio Corona
   <[1]abcor...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:


 __
From: Sean Smith <[2]lutesm...@gmail.com>
To: lute <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Sunday, 26 August 2018, 12:41
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nigel's Francesco vol 2
Dear Sean
Don`t worry, Don Quijote de la Mancha couldn't hear a difference
either, back in 1615. When he listened to Sanson Carrasco playing
 in a
forest he told Sancho:
Pero escucha, que a lo que parece templando esta vn laud, o
 viguela, y
segun escupe, y se desembaraà §a el pecho, deue prepararse para
 cantar
algo.
Best.
Antonio
  If we cannot hear the differences between the two instruments
 from a
  recorded performance, what conclusions should we draw? Is the
  difference more apparent when we are in the same room? Should
 we
  suspect they have been mixed (deliberately? inadvertently?) to
 make
  them more similar?
  Sean
--
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:abcor...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com
   3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Nigel's Francesco vol 2

[Sean Smith]

   Fair enough.

   On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 11:20 AM howard posner
   <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:

 > On Aug 26, 2018, at 10:38 AM, Sean Smith <[2]lutesm...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 >
 >   If we cannot hear the differences between the two instruments
 from a
 >recorded performance, what conclusions should we draw? Is the
 >difference more apparent when we are in the same room? Should
 we
 >suspect they have been mixed (deliberately? inadvertently?) to
 make
 >them more similar?
 I might conclude 1) that Nigel's taste in instruments leads him to
 own a vihuela that sounds like his six-course lute,
 2) that Nigel has an ideal sound that he tries to get from both
 instruments, or
 3) My ears aren't refined enough to detect the difference.
 The last seems unlikely, given the time I spend applying
 ear-refining lotion.
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   2. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Nigel's Francesco vol 2

[Sean Smith]

   If we cannot hear the differences between the two instruments from a
   recorded performance, what conclusions should we draw? Is the
   difference more apparent when we are in the same room? Should we
   suspect they have been mixed (deliberately? inadvertently?) to make
   them more similar?
   Sean

   On Sat, Aug 25, 2018, 5:37 AM Edward Martin <[1]edvihuel...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

Dear ones,
I was asked to provide the answer to the list, so here it is:
Nigel plays on both kinds of instrument: approximately 2/3 of the
pieces on lute; the rest on viola da Mano (vihuela).
-- Forwarded message -
From: Christopher Stetson <[1][2]christophertstet...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Nigel's Francesco vol 2
To: Edward Martin <[2][3]edvihuel...@gmail.com>
Edward,
Can you share the answer to the list, for the curious?
Thanks,
Chris.
On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 9:24 PM, Edward Martin
<[3][4]edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote:
 Dear ones,
 My inquiry was answered, thanks to Steven, Steve, and
 Andrew.
  Thanks
 to all 3!
 --
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [4][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
 References
1. mailto:[6]christophertstet...@gmail.com
2. mailto:[7]edvihuel...@gmail.com
3. mailto:[8]edvihuel...@gmail.com
4. [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
   3. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   4. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
   7. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   8. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: More dots

[Sean Smith]

   Thanks, Tristan.

   Which books did you see the Alberto dots in this context?
   The Fezandant publications include right-hand dots frequently in the
   guitar books but I don't recall any running thirds. I don't mind
   looking again, though.
   Sean

   AR's intabulations are nice, too.
   Pardon the weird formatting above.
   Sean

   On Aug 3, 2018 5:37 PM, "Tristan von Neumann"
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 I guess the most logical way is to play the run with index and
 middle
 finger (not dedillo), it's also most convenient. Sounds great if
 played
 with panache.
 Albert de Rippe has some similar dotting in his style and it makes
 sense. For my taste, this gives more control over the brightness and
 clarity of the notes.
 What strikes me more with Rotta's works is the detailed instructions
 which notes to hold, sometimes three notes, which leave you with few
 ways to go to the next chord, or none, if you put the wrong fingers
 on
 them. :)
 His Ricercars are very good practice material for voice leading.

   Am 04.08.2018 um 01:15 schrieb Sean Smith:
   >  Antonio Rota in his first book has a Saltarelo and Piva in the
   Dm
   >  Antico dance cycle that includes the passage (more or less
   similar in
   >  each)
   >  I2 0.2.3.5.7.I
   >  I3 2.3.5.7.8.Ietc.
   >  It may not be clear above but it's a run of thirds where each
   cipher
   >  has a dot following. The passage continues into the 2nd and
   third
   >  courses and the initial downbeat in each measure is undotted. Is
   he
   >  suggesting both notes are
   >  a) played with the index
   >  b) some non-thumb finger
   >  c) something else? brushed? strummed? two-note dedillo? lighter?
   >  AR is quite liberal in his right-of-cipher dottage in this print
   while
   >  the Gardane print (same year) strips them all away.
   >  AR also uses dots beside rootless chords on off-beats, including
   >  non-adjacent strings. I'm suspecting the innocuous dot may have
   other
   >  meanings beside "index finger here" but I'm not sure what.
   Suggestions?
   >  Speculation?
   >  Here is the facsimile link to the book [with thanks to Jo
   Bringmann].
   >  The passages are on 13v and 15r.
   >
   [1][2]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/0007/bsb00071965/images/index
   .ht
   >  ml?id=00071965==193.174.98.30==26
   >  Sean
   >
   >  --
   >
   > References
   >
   >  1.
   [3]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/0007/bsb00071965/images/index.ht
   ml?id=00071965==193.174.98.30==26
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/0007/bsb00071965/images/index.ht
   3. 
http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/0007/bsb00071965/images/index.html?id=00071965==193.174.98.30==26
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] More dots

[Sean Smith]

   Antonio Rota in his first book has a Saltarelo and Piva in the Dm
   Antico dance cycle that includes the passage (more or less similar in
   each)
   I2 0.2.3.5.7.I
   I3 2.3.5.7.8.I   etc.
   It may not be clear above but it's a run of thirds where each cipher
   has a dot following. The passage continues into the 2nd and third
   courses and the initial downbeat in each measure is undotted. Is he
   suggesting both notes are
   a) played with the index
   b) some non-thumb finger
   c) something else? brushed? strummed? two-note dedillo? lighter?
   AR is quite liberal in his right-of-cipher dottage in this print while
   the Gardane print (same year) strips them all away.
   AR also uses dots beside rootless chords on off-beats, including
   non-adjacent strings. I'm suspecting the innocuous dot may have other
   meanings beside "index finger here" but I'm not sure what. Suggestions?
   Speculation?
   Here is the facsimile link to the book [with thanks to Jo Bringmann].
   The passages are on 13v and 15r.
   [1]http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/0007/bsb00071965/images/index.ht
   ml?id=00071965==193.174.98.30==26
   Sean

   --

References

   1. 
http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/0007/bsb00071965/images/index.html?id=00071965==193.174.98.30==26


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: intabulations

[Sean Smith]

   Ed,
   I asked Paul O'Dette at the LSA seminar last month about the general
   ratio between dances, fantasies/ricercars and intabulations in the 16th
   century. He put it at about one third for each.
   Sean

   On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 7:43 AM, Ed Durbrow <[1]edurb...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

 I'm giving a talk on the lute next week and I was searching for a
 statistic about how much of the Renaissance lute repertoire consist
 of intabulations.
 Also, I am looking for statistics (estimates really) of how many
 tabs there are and could have been and how many songs with in
 tabulation there are. I've heard that outside of the piano and
 possibly violin there is more lute music than for any other
 instrument. I want to back that up. If you could point me to some
 research or quotes somewhere on the Internet, I would be much
 obliged.
 Thanks in advance.
 Ed Durbrow
 Saitama, Japan
 [2]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
 [3]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
 [4]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
 --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:edurb...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
   3. https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
   4. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Renaissance Guitar Tuning/Stringing

[Sean Smith]

   Just to add, of the two deRippe fantasies, one of them uses a 4th
   course that's dropped one whole tone. You see this tuning from time to
   time in other pieces but it doesn't need a string change.
   s

   On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:14 AM, Sean Smith <[1]lutesm...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

Hi Tristan,
Nobody's written yet so I'll have a go.
Like most lute objects the ren. guitar has a top string tuned as
 high
and as comfortably as possible. For a 55cm length that translates
 to an
A (415, 450 or nearby). I use the same diameter schedule as the
 top 4
courses on other lutes (with an allowance for the half-step
 higher 3rd
course tho it's hardly necessary).
The observation that it's similar to the inner 4 courses is more
 to
show the interval relationship. By coincidence it's also the 4
 inner
courses of a descant lute with a top string of d.
Sean
On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 5:00 AM, Tristan von Neumann
<[1][2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
  Hi Lustists with Ren-Guitar!
  How would you string a Renaissance Guitar diameter-wise, let's
 say
  55 cm, what are the most common tunings in Morlaye and Le Roy?
 (I'd
  love to play the Albert fantasies too). I see the "middle of a
 6
  course lute" is one possibility, what are others?
  What string diameters would you recommend to enable tuning
 changes
  without changing strings and still have an acceptable
 playability?
  Thanks :)
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [2][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
 References
1. mailto:[4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
2. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   4. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Renaissance Guitar Tuning/Stringing

[Sean Smith]

   Hi Tristan,
   Nobody's written yet so I'll have a go.
   Like most lute objects the ren. guitar has a top string tuned as high
   and as comfortably as possible. For a 55cm length that translates to an
   A (415, 450 or nearby). I use the same diameter schedule as the top 4
   courses on other lutes (with an allowance for the half-step higher 3rd
   course tho it's hardly necessary).
   The observation that it's similar to the inner 4 courses is more to
   show the interval relationship. By coincidence it's also the 4 inner
   courses of a descant lute with a top string of d.
   Sean

   On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 5:00 AM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 Hi Lustists with Ren-Guitar!
 How would you string a Renaissance Guitar diameter-wise, let's say
 55 cm, what are the most common tunings in Morlaye and Le Roy? (I'd
 love to play the Albert fantasies too). I see the "middle of a 6
 course lute" is one possibility, what are others?
 What string diameters would you recommend to enable tuning changes
 without changing strings and still have an acceptable playability?
 Thanks :)
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Pacoloni

[Sean Smith]

   The printed trios are somewhat different from the trios in his hand
   from the Castlefranco ms in that the ms. contains very few errors and
   each part has its own part to play within the trio.
   Sean
   On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 7:54 AM, Mathias Rösel
   <[1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote:

 Dear Jean-Marie,
 not a PhD here, but I've played his trios with friends. There are so
 many runs in parallel fourths and even in parallel fifths that I've
 become suspicious these trios actually are duets with alternative
 second parts.
 Mathias
 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-arc@cs.dartmouth.
 edu] Im Auftrag von Jean-Marie Poirier
 Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Mai 2018 16:47
 An: 'Lute List'
 Betreff: [LUTE] Pacoloni

   Dear collective wisdom,
   Would anyone on this list know of a dissertation or Ph. D. about the
   works of Giovanni Pacoloni, particularly
   his pieces for 3 lutes ?
   Thank you in advance for any help you can give me !
   All the best,
   Jean-Marie Poirier
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de
   2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Fronimo

[Sean Smith]

Dear Wannabe Mac Fronimo users,

I have just opened both Fronimo 2.1 and 3.0 on my Mac using Crossover 17 
running on High Sierra. I have not explored of it yet but I thought I’d post 
this so more experienced Mac users can go through it for its strengths and 
weaknesses. I have a lot of projects going on right now so I can’t explore it 
much.

Their site is:
https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-mac
You will need this address to go to their page to “Install an unknown 
application from a disc or file”
If you have both 2.1 and 3.0 you will need to put each .exe file in their own 
folder.

They have a free trial good for 14 days.
They sell it for $39.95 but I got it through the "BoingBoing Store" for $19
https://boingboing.net/2017/12/13/crossover-17-lets-you-run-wind.html
Contrary to the title of their post it doesn’t run Windows but rather (some?) 
Windows programs under a Wine interface.

I hope this is helpful (and successful!), 
Sean



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Mandolino versus Mandola

[Sean Smith]

Time for a stray thought? Maybe.

I’ve always wondered if by combining a guitar, flute/penny whistle, violin, 
bass and bazouki/mandolin — sometimes all, sometimes less — there wasn’t a 
subconscious effort to recreate the English broken consort? Even in blue grass 
bands one gets something of the same variety. Yet nothing of the sort seems to 
predate the broken consort. Hmmm.

Ok, back to obscurity. Have a nice day. 
Sean



> On Dec 6, 2017, at 3:18 PM, Nancy Carlin  
> wrote:
> 
> yes, very much of a sidestep. That instrument was introduced to Irish music 
> by Andy Irvine and Donnal Lunney something like 20 years ago.
> Nancy
>>And not yet mentioned is the Irish Bouzouki, or the bouzouki proper.
>>But it's perhaps a sidestep...
>>G.
>> 
>>--
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nancy Carlin
> Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
> http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org
> 
> PO Box 6499
> Concord, CA 94524
> USA
> 925 / 686-5800
> 
> www.groundsanddivisions.info
> www.nancycarlinassociates.com
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Rewarding Renaissance Lute repertoire

[Sean Smith]

Hi Rainer,

I haven’t found the page “dead” at all. Some links have been lost however 
and, yes, it could use a serious update but I still find it a useful tool. I 
asked the LSA about it and they report that they are working towards making the 
700+ titles of their entire microfilm library online, for free, for the first 
time ever in totally digital form.  When that is up I believe the LSA will put 
up a reworked Facsimiles Link page to complement it.  

I hope this helps! 
Sean


> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:39 AM, Rainer  wrote:
> 
> On 05.12.2017 12:22, b...@symbol4.de wrote:
>>And I recommend:
>>[3]https://lutesocietyofamerica.wildapricot.org/Tab-Facsimiles
> 
> This page seems to be dead - no updates(?) for almost two years.
> 
> Does anybody know what happened?
> 
> Rainer
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] Re: Rewarding Renaissance Lute repertoire

[Sean Smith]

I’m currently partial to the intabulators who took on the work of Archadelt. 
There's Vindella’s all Acadelt book (1546), the many variations of “Quand’io 
pens’al martir” and even the chansons for voice and renaissance guitar (A. 
LeRoy, Cinqiesme Livre). And Crecquillon, non Papa, Pathie, deRore, Lasso and ….

.. who am I kidding? I enjoy most all the vocal pieces set for lute. Ok, all 
the ones I can play, anyway. Phalese (’63, ’68) and Paladin sometimes stay on 
the stand for months.  

Sean

ps, Tristan, there’s a nice Pathie set by the mysterious B.M. in Siena. 




> On Dec 4, 2017, at 12:18 PM, Tristan von Neumann  
> wrote:
> 
> Here's a poll for Renaissance Lutists -
> 
> what do you consider most rewarding to play in terms of playability combined 
> with beauty?
> So far, I love Francesco da Milano and most anonymous pieces from the Siena 
> Ms., they never get tiresome and lie gently on the hands.
> Also Hans Neusiedler and Luis Milan.
> Not in this category: Albert de Rippe. Amazing music, but honestly, did this 
> guy have six fingers on each hand??
> 
> What are your favourites? Is there any obscure repertoire to discover?
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

[Sean Smith]

I’m glad Frank Spinacino doesn’t work that bar. He’d’ve mangled that Martini.


> On Nov 13, 2017, at 4:28 PM, Stewart McCoy  wrote:
> 
> A lute walks into a bar: "Tonight's programme will be entertaining - we've 
> got to get through 300 bars, and there aren't many rests."
> A lute walks into a bar: "Oops! Sorry, I didn't see you. I thought I was in 
> the Thibault manuscript."
> A lute walks into a bar: "I'd like six courses, and there must be a rose on 
> the table."
> A lute walks into a bar: "I came just in case."
> A lute walks into a bar: "Do you have spare ribs?"
> A lute walks into a bar: "My mate Dowland fancies a Barley wine."
> A lute walks into a bar in Holborne: "Where's the loo?"
> A lute walks into a bar in Germany: "What's up? Are you short of staff?"
> 
> Stewart McCoy
> 
> -Original Message- From: Ron Andrico
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 2:09 PM
> To: lutelist Net
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bad lute music
> 
>   A lute walks into a bar: "I'd like to order a small Frei, please."
>   A lute walks into a bar: "I'm under a lot of tension, I just stopped
>  by to unwind."
>   A lute walks into a bar: "Is this what may be called a loose bar?"
>   A lute walks into a bar: "Don't fret, I'm here to tie one on."
>   A lute walks into a bar: "I'd better stop, I think my table is
>  bulging."
>   A lute walks into a bar: "I'll have a double course."
>__
> 
>  From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
>  of howard posner 
>  Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:26 AM
>  To: Tristan von Neumann
>  Cc: lutelist Net
>  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bad lute music
> 
>  On Nov 12, 2017, at 7:45 PM, Tristan von Neumann
>   wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > Am 11.11.2017 um 18:51 schrieb Alain Veylit:
>  > Anyone with a good ending for: A lute walks into a bar
>  >> ...?
>  >
>  > How about those:
>  >
>  > A lute walks into a bar: "I'll have a large beer please. No mug, I
>  have a bowl."
>  >
>  > A lute walks into a bar. The barkeeper: "Why all those frets?"
>  >
>  > A lute walks into a bar. The barkeeper: "You have the guts to show
>  your face in here?"
>  >
>  > A lute walks into a bar. "Can I have a beer?" - "No way, you already
>  have a loose nut."
>  >
>  > I apologize if they're not good, I'm German. :)
>  Without question, the best lute-walks-into-a-bar jokes I’ve ever read.
>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>  [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>  [2]Lute Mail list technical information
>  www.cs.dartmouth.edu
>  How do I get on the lute mail list? To get on the mail list, send email
>  with a Subject: of "subscribe" to lute-requ...@cs.dartmouth.edu and
>  your name will be added to ...
> 
>  --
> 
> References
> 
>  1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>  2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Guillemette

[Sean Smith]

A texted version (Cantus and Bassus parts included) of “Tant vous allez douce 
Guillemette” is found in Emanuel Adriaensen’s _Pratum Musicum…_, Antwerp, 
1584^6 where it is attributed to Abrahan. Howard Mayer Brown gives RISM 1564^11.

Sean


> On Oct 19, 2017, at 7:31 AM, Isabelle Villey  wrote:
> 
>   Dear Lute list,
>   Working on the different tablature versions of Guillemette, I would be
>   grateful to any of you that could help me to get the Thysius version.(f
>   ° 510, La Guillemette).
>   I don't know where I can find it on the web.
>   I am also looking for some information about the source of this song or
>   dance.
>   Thanks in advance for any help
>   Isabelle
> 
>   --
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Interesting perspective on Spinacino & Petrucci

[Sean Smith]

Right on, Arthur,

The Spinacino book, like the other opening publications by Petrucci, does 
indeed look back to the 15th century and is the largest cache we have of 
Burgundian chansons set for the lute. Interestingly, there seems to be a few 
different styles in their intabulation. Only one rondeau, "Haray tres amours", 
is set fairly straightforwardly (see the original in the Odhecaton A) — the 
rest sucumbing to nearly endless decoration in the countertenor (primarily), 
tenor and cantus lines, ficta experimentation and extreme stylization. Despite 
this, some of them “clean up” nicely after consulting originals and 
variants, e.g., “Tandernaken" in the Segovia and "Nunca fuit pena maior" in 
the Odhecaton and Capirola. 

It’s certainly not the aesthetic we’re used to but who are we to judge?

Sean


> On Oct 7, 2017, at 7:36 AM, Arthur Ness  wrote:
> 
>   Hi Gary!
>   I think you're "right on" with your comments.  Here is the Spinacino
>   print, a unica, thought to
>   have been destroyed in WW_II.
>   http://ks.imslp.net/files/imglnks/usimg/f/f5/IMSLP434841-PMLP706772-spi 
> 
>   nacino_1.pdf
>   I think Wilson's perspective is a few centuries off.  His mention of
>   Pasquini  suggests as much.
>   He is not approaching the music on its own terms, but rather as he
>   thinks it should be.
>   Many ricercars use toccata figuration.  And that is essentially what
>   happens in Spinacino's
>   vocal settings in which the vocal quotation serves as cantus firmus.
>   I listened to his harpsichord "arrangement" of a Spinacino ricercar.
>   It sounds a century off for me as well.
>   Spinacino actually looks backward in his pieces--under the spell of
>   15th-century
>   plectrum ("simplex") lutenist style. Glenn Wilson should listen to our
>   Wilsons,
>   Christopher and Shirley Ramsey: Early Venetian Lute Music (Naxos
>   8.553694).
>   Here's something in that style from the famous Cancionero de la
>   Catedral de Segovia
>   (copied ca. 1498-1502):
>   http://home.planet.nl/~teuli049/RoeDetousbiens%20Half2octaafsleutels.pd 
> 
>   f
>   Lute seems to be he only string instrument from that time capable of
>   playing such a wide range.
>   And so nicely organized with repeated rhythmic and melodic motives to
>   provide uniformity.
>   There are also other similar instrumental pieces around folio 200 in
>   the Cancionero, the last pieces in the
>   Franco-Flemish section.   Six are by Tinctoris.  Arnold den Teuling
>   identifies "Roelkin" (Little Rudolf in
>   Dutch) as Rodolphus Agricola (1444-1485)
>   Thus the Spinacino pieces are written under the spell of plectrum
>   ("simplex") lutenist style of
>   15th-century masters such as Pietrobono da Ferrara, who performed such
>   duos with a tenorista
>   accompanying on viola da mano.
>   Arthur Ness
>   arthurjn...@verizon.net 
>   -Original Message-
>   From: Gary Boye >
>   To: Arthur Ness >
>   Cc: Lutelist >
>   Sent: Thu, Oct 5, 2017 2:29 pm
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Interesting perspective on Spinacino & Petrucci
>   Arthur,
>   Do you agree with his statements about Spinacino?
>   I'm a little uncomfortable about the dismissiveness towards this work.
>   Stanley Boorman's Ottaviano Petrucci: catalogue raisonnà © outlined
>   the unusual history of these early books and noted that the scale of
>   production was quite small--in fact, the Spinacino book had a list of
>   subscribers and probably a run much smaller than later lute books. To
>   say that Petrucci abandoned printing lute tablature because of all the
>   errors ignores the fact that he did continue to print lute tablatures
>   (another Spinacino book, the lost Giovanni Maria Alemani, Dalza,
>   Bossinensis). It also ignores the fact that these are some of the most
>   beautifully printed of all the early lute books, from an aesthetic
>   standpoint, without the awkward lines of movable staff blocks seen in
>   later prints.
>   His comments do a disservice at least to Petrucci, if not to Spinacino
>   as well, who after all was an amateur. Sure there are errors, but there
>   are errors in every printed lute tablature out there (and most of the
>   manuscript ones). And I wonder if some of the "errors" are problems
>   with interpretation of the tablature and with a lack of knowledge of
>   the lute. I don't find them "obviously corrupt" or "disastrous"--at
>   least not to a level I would call "often"--in any case.
>   Just my 2c,
>   Gary
>   On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Arthur Ness
>   <[1][1]arthurjn...@verizon.net > wrote:
>   It is an interesting quest, to seek 

[LUTE] Re: Page two.

[Sean Smith]

Sorry to bother y’all with that. Ignore that and this. Sean



> On Sep 8, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Sean Smith <lutesm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 0
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Page two.

[Sean Smith]

0

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: "Sting Effect" (was Direwolf Hall)

[Sean Smith]

I received a nice gig from the effect. 

Sean


> On Sep 7, 2017, at 1:55 PM, howard posner  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sep 7, 2017, at 1:40 PM, John Mardinly  wrote:
>> 
>> So is there any chance that this will result in archlute themed backpacks, 
>> pencil cases, blankets, pillows or other Disney themed merchandise?
> 
> It’s been 11 years (!) since Sting tackled (as it were) Dowland in Songs from 
> the Labyrinth.  Some of us were speculating about a potential “Sting effect” 
> raising the lute’s profile in the world.  
> 
> Did anyone notice one?
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Wolf Hall

[Sean Smith]

I think it’s safe to say we pay attention to details of movies when they 
overlap our areas of specific interest. When I started doing optics I suddenly 
noticed that every characters' eyeglasses were of neutral power unless thick 
ones were part of the plot. It may not ruin the show but I mentally tally it 
and it always helps erode the Movie Magic. If it were a movie about eyeglasses, 
however related, I’d hope more attention were given. But I’d hardly expect it. 

I know, Suspension of Belief is important but I save that for the “faster than 
light travel” and “against all odds” tropes. 

Sean



> On Sep 6, 2017, at 11:12 AM, Martin Shepherd  wrote:
> 
> It's not just music.  A friend of mine who is something of an expert in 
> historical costume has a thing or two to say about some horrors - though 
> costume is sometimes done very well.  Another friend who makes historical 
> glass will tell you that film makers won't tolerate historical (clear) glass 
> because it is invisible - so incorrectly tinted glass has to be used instead.
> 
> But I agree the music thing is baffling - you'd think that even someone who 
> knew nothing about music could do a bit of research to find music from the 
> period, but apparently they don't bother, I suspect partly because they think 
> of any music pre-1900 as being "medieval" so either they use anything at 
> random from seven centuries of music of they simply use Elgar or Mozart 
> instead.
> 
> Actually I can see that using music which is totally "unhistorical" could be 
> very atmospheric, referencing as it could the "progress" of human 
> civilization - but maybe I'm asking too much here.
> 
> M
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings

[Sean Smith]

I recently saw a hurdy gurdy (19th century?) in an antique shop with some drone 
gut strings that looked (to my eye) about 1.5 - 1.75 mm in diameter. They were 
pretty old. I’ll bet it’s still there with that $3k price tag if anyone wants 
it. A nice old theorbo’d Vandervogl, too, that they had labeled as 18th century 
(early 20th cent. wound strings).

Sean



On Aug 31, 2017, at 9:41 AM, fournierbru  wrote:

>   I still, to this day, dont understand why we have no surviving examples
>   of lute bass strings on all those lutes in museums..surely not every
>   lute was transformed or adapted for post renaissance and baroque
>   playing..
> 
>   Envoyé de mon appareil Samsung de Bell via le réseau le plus vaste au
>   pays.
> 
>    Message d'origine 
>   De : Dan Winheld 
>   Date : 17-08-31 12:18 PM (GMT-05:00)
>   À : Lute List 
>   Objet : [LUTE] Re: KF vs. new Aquila bass strings
> 
>   And not to be forgotten, the great work of Dan Larson of "Gamut"
>   Strings- using real gut subjected to great research & creativity to
>   bring us lute strings- esp. those troublesome basses- that come closer
>   to a "real" thing!
>   Dan
>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 

[LUTE] Re: Source for Guedron, "Aux Plaisirs".

[Sean Smith]

Interesting to see this play out again. I was in exactly the same situation 2 
years ago, scratching my head over this same piece of music that I thought I 
had prepared for. Any others out there?

Ron, I agree, learning about sources is every bit as important as technique, 
instruments and aesthetics. Over the last 20 years I’ve put zillions of files 
together for concerts, organization or study. Many of them might be useful for 
others but to put them up blindly (or even the necessary information) would be 
madness. While once or twice useful, eventually there’s the probability I'd be 
guilty of the same misinformation as our 19th/20th century forbearers. For 
every Howard M. Brown, Colin Slim and A. Ness there are a dozen Flaxlands, 
Durands and me’s.

The beauty of the net is that there’s no editor. The tragic downfall of the net 
is that there’s no editor. 

Sean


On Apr 25, 2017, at 5:28 AM, Ron Andrico  wrote:

>   Christopher, what you have encountered is a 19th-century romantic
>   re-composed version of the air, and is from Échos de France: Recueil
>   des plus célèbres airs, romances, duos, etc., first published in Paris
>   in 1853 by Flaxland, later editions published by Durand.  The
>   re-imagined 19th-century version of Aux plaisirs is from Vol.1
>   (pp.85-87).
> 
>   This is also evidence of the total collapse of facts, truth, and real
>   access to actual cultural landmarks that is a result of the massive
>   uncollated barrage of questionable information disseminated on the
>   internet.  In other words, this is what happens when one innocently
>   surfs for free music.
> 
>   RA
> __
> 
>   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
>   of Christopher Stetson 
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 1:50 AM
>   To: Andreas Schlegel; Lute List
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Source for Guedron, "Aux Plaisirs".
> 
>  So I went to rehearse this song with a singer who said she'd been
>  working on it, and she was surprised as she had been working on this
>  version:
> 
>   [1]http://ks.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/84/IMSLP406285-PMLP305517
>  -Aux_plaisirs__aux_d__lices.pdf
>  Does anyone know the origin of it?
>  Thanks,
>  Chris.
>  On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 7:20 AM, Christopher Stetson
>  <[2]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  Thank you, Andreas.
>  On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 12:49 AM, Andreas Schlegel
>  <[3]lute.cor...@sunrise.ch> wrote:
>  After Guillo
>  [4]https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1875319692
>  3=sortby%3D17%26an%3Dguillo%2Blaurent
>  p. 340:
>  1v et luth: P.Guédron, tabl. G.Bataille: 1614-C
>  1v P.Guédron 1615-B
>  5v P.Guédron 1617-G+
>  Andreas
>  Am 08.04.2017 um 05:29 schrieb Christopher Stetson
>  <[5]christophertstet...@gmail.com>:
>   Hi,
>   Can someone tell me where I can find Pierre Guedron's "Aux
>Plaisirs,
>   aux Delices Bergeres"?I know someone knows off-hand, and I
>don't
>   have  the time to go searching myself.
>   Thanks,
>   Chris.
>   --
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>[6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>  Andreas Schlegel
>  Eckstr. 6
>  CH-5737 Menziken
>  [7]+41 (0)62 771 47 07
>  [8]lute.cor...@sunrise.ch
>  --
>   References
>  1.
>   [1]http://ks.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/84/IMSLP406285-PMLP305517
>   -Aux_plaisirs__aux_d__lices.pdf
>  2. [2]mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
>  3. [3]mailto:lute.cor...@sunrise.ch
>  4.
>   [4]https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=18753196923
>   url=sortby=17=guillo+laurent
>  5. [5]mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
>  6. [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>  7. tel:+41 62 771 47 07
>  8. [7]mailto:lute.cor...@sunrise.ch
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. 
> http://ks.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/84/IMSLP406285-PMLP305517-Aux_plaisirs__aux_d__lices.pdf
>   2. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
>   3. mailto:lute.cor...@sunrise.ch
>   4. 
> https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=18753196923=sortby=17=guillo+laurent
>   5. mailto:christophertstet...@gmail.com
>   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>   7. mailto:lute.cor...@sunrise.ch
> 

[LUTE] Re: Earliest printed tablature with ornaments

[Sean Smith]

Dear Denys, Rainer

I was thinking of the Libro Ottavo, too, but found the same pattern in 
Intabulatura di Lauto del Divino FdM & del eccelente PPB da Milano … Libro 
Secondo, Venice, 1546.

First instance in this book: First pavana, last system of 2nd page (m. 71), the 
third cipher is one too many leading us to believe it is an appogiatura. This 
sort of repitition occurs frequently in the dance settings in this book.

I hope this helps.

Sean



On Mar 6, 2017, at 8:13 AM, Denys Stephens  wrote:

> Dear Rainer, I don't have my books to hand just now, but If I remember 
> correctly I think there is some ornamentation in one or more of the Borrono 
> prints - I will look it up later. Best wishes, Denys
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 10:49, Rainer  wrote:
>> 
>> Dear lute netters,
>> 
>> According to Wikipedia
>> 
>> "According to Frederick Neumann,[2] Vallet may have been among the first to 
>> introduce ornaments into lute tablature."
>> 
>> Of course this is nonsense.
>> 
>> Anyway, does anybody know of printed tablature with ornaments before 1596?
>> 
>> Rainer
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Marsh flavoured Chi Passa

[Sean Smith]

I know the versions and fictas go all over the map but I’d hardly call any 
offensive. Paired up, they get very interesting, of course. I remember a mate 
and I going at them and pairing as many as we could w/ every size lute and 
cittern(s). “Piquant!” “Chewy!” “Clashy!” Never the ‘O’ word, tho.

s



On Mar 2, 2017, at 9:38 AM, Jim Dunn  wrote:

>   Hi Rainer,
>   Sorry, I should have said; the offending Chi Passa has been found.
>   Thanks Rainer, and thanks to all for their help!
>   Jim
> 
>   On 2 Mar 2017, 17:01 +, Rainer , wrote:
> 
> Which one?
> There are several Chis Passas in this source.
> Rainer
> On 24.02.2017 13:09, Jim Dunn wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> Does anybody know where I can get hold of tablature for the version
> of
> Chi Passa in the Marsh Lute Book? My internet searches are drawing a
> blank...
> Thanks in advance!
> Jim
> --
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   --
> 

[LUTE] Re: basses in octaves

[Sean Smith]

> .I would have never thought a string would
>   go flat in higher positions it is usually the opposite.

I’ve seen it happen regularly on my top string or 4th octave when an older 
style nylgut (the white ones) has been on for a long time*. Usually after 7 
months I have to decide whether to move the 5th and 7th frets up for the 
chanterelle or down for the long-in-the-tooth 2nd or 3rd gut courses.

I wonder if over time the plastic stretching eventually increases toward the 
center of the string (or one of the ends) — but the opposite for gut strings.

Sean

* 0.42 mm on a 60cm mensur at G (440) 


On Feb 28, 2017, at 7:05 PM, fournierbru  wrote:

>   Well that would mean I have to slant the frets to make the fundamental
>   sharper and in tune inthose positions ..which will render the octave
>   horribly sharp and the put the tasting below the octave string to lower
>   it...because it is in fact the loaded nylgut fundamental which goes
>   flat as you go up the neck...I would have never thought a string would
>   go flat in higher positions it is usually the opposite.
> 
>   Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
> 
>    Original message 
>   From: Miles Dempster 
>   Date: 2017-02-28 9:48 PM (GMT-05:00)
>   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: basses in octaves
> 
>   Actually there is another solution to this. You'll probably all think
>   that I am crazy, but I'll suggest it anyway since it is used by some
>   guitar makers when crafting the nut, and might be applicable to lutes.
>   On my classical guitar (yes, I confess that I do actually play one
>   occasionally...) I find that the biggest tuning ‘problem' is the 3rd
>   (thickest nylon) string. It's the one that tends to be a little sharp.
>   You get the instrument perfectly in tune for a C major chord only to
>   find that the G sharp of an E major chord is too sharp, and so on as
>   you go up the 3rd string.
>   I solved the problem by putting a small tastino about 1/8th inch in
>   front of the nut. In fact its a bit of a toothpick wedged under the
>   string. What is does is shorten the distance from the nut to the frets,
>   so that all the fretted notes will be flattened slightly (compared to
>   the other strings).
>   On a lute with double courses, you could do the same for the string
>   (whether it be the fundamental or the octave) which goes sharper that
>   the other.
>   Best
>   Miles
>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 8:53 PM, fournierbru 
>   wrote:
>> 
>>  Getting exact same tension between fundamental and octave is next
>   to
>>  impossible and ludicrous.   Of course that wouldn't have been a
>>  possibility In the Renaissance and lutes must certainly have been
>   out
>>  of tune..but our modern ear wants otherwise.   My strings are not
>   THAT
>>  much different in tension..the elasticity of the loaded nylgut is
>   the
>>  main culprit..my options are going back to wound on the courses in
>>  octaves that are on the fingerboard or go for unions and adjust the
>>  frets.
>> 
>>  BRUNO
>> 
>>  Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
>> 
>>   Original message 
>>  From: Dan Winheld 
>>  Date: 2017-02-28 8:07 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>  To: Miles Dempster ,
>   lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>  Subject: [LUTE] Re: basses in octaves
>> 
>>  On 2/28/2017 4:06 PM, Miles Dempster wrote:
>>  "Maybe it could help if the octave is closer in tension to the
>>  fundamental."
>>  Bingo!- Miles wins. It became a custom to string lutes with
>   absurdly
>>  slack octaves early in the lute re-Renaissance, as they were
>>  functionally useless; the overspun basses already being so overly
>   heavy
>>  on the harmonics. Until we started seriously playing with gut
>   basses we
>>  didn't even actually know the true purpose of the octave strings.
>   (I
>>  know I didn't!) We now know that the gut octaves must be the same
>>  tension as the fundamentals for the whole system to work sonically
>   &
>>  intonationally.
>>But if those new ones really are going flat going up the neck,
>   yes
>>  that's a deal breaker on any fingered bass courses. I have not yet
>>  tried the new CD loadeds- it sure seems counter intuitive that the
>>  thick string would go flat as it frets up the fingerboard (if it is
>   not
>>  false!). Too flexible- very interesting- are we stringing to
>   loosely? I
>>  remember attempting to use thick, stiff, low twist harp strings
>   back in
>>  the 1970's for lute basses- what a disaster!
>>  Any other experiences from players using these? Not willing to pull
>   the
>>  trigger yet for 7 B-lute bass strings and 4 10 course lute bass
>   strings
>>  until this is sorted out.
>>  Dan
>>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>>  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: basses in octaves

[Sean Smith]

It’s also possible that the two strings are absorbing moisture at different 
rates. Furthermore they may absorb hand sweat in different areas preventing or 
promoting same.

“It’s way more complicated than we ever imagined!”   

Sean



On Feb 28, 2017, at 5:53 PM, fournierbru  wrote:

>   Getting exact same tension between fundamental and octave is next to
>   impossible and ludicrous.   Of course that wouldn't have been a
>   possibility In the Renaissance and lutes must certainly have been out
>   of tune..but our modern ear wants otherwise.   My strings are not THAT
>   much different in tension..the elasticity of the loaded nylgut is the
>   main culprit..my options are going back to wound on the courses in
>   octaves that are on the fingerboard or go for unions and adjust the
>   frets.
> 
>   BRUNO
> 
>   Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
> 
>    Original message 
>   From: Dan Winheld 
>   Date: 2017-02-28 8:07 PM (GMT-05:00)
>   To: Miles Dempster , lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: basses in octaves
> 
>   On 2/28/2017 4:06 PM, Miles Dempster wrote:
>   "Maybe it could help if the octave is closer in tension to the
>   fundamental."
>   Bingo!- Miles wins. It became a custom to string lutes with absurdly
>   slack octaves early in the lute re-Renaissance, as they were
>   functionally useless; the overspun basses already being so overly heavy
>   on the harmonics. Until we started seriously playing with gut basses we
>   didn't even actually know the true purpose of the octave strings. (I
>   know I didn't!) We now know that the gut octaves must be the same
>   tension as the fundamentals for the whole system to work sonically &
>   intonationally.
> But if those new ones really are going flat going up the neck, yes
>   that's a deal breaker on any fingered bass courses. I have not yet
>   tried the new CD loadeds- it sure seems counter intuitive that the
>   thick string would go flat as it frets up the fingerboard (if it is not
>   false!). Too flexible- very interesting- are we stringing to loosely? I
>   remember attempting to use thick, stiff, low twist harp strings back in
>   the 1970's for lute basses- what a disaster!
>   Any other experiences from players using these? Not willing to pull the
>   trigger yet for 7 B-lute bass strings and 4 10 course lute bass strings
>   until this is sorted out.
>   Dan
>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 

[LUTE] Re: Information of facsimile

[Sean Smith]

Thank you for your hard work. That’s a lot of lute music!

Akemasita omedetoo gozaimasu, 
Sean


On Dec 30, 2016, at 3:53 PM, T.Kakinami  wrote:

> Information of facsimile I knew so far is updated. List is categorized by
> sources and by authors. Sources are from mainly bibliotheques around the
> world. It also includes personal sites that are in like a public one. Table
> of contents gadget is prepared on the right column so can be easily
> searched.
> 
> http://kakitoshilute.blogspot.com/
> 
> Kakinami
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: new video

[Sean Smith]

I never went to the soldering iron either until recently and I’m still 
undecided. For a long time I used the gas stove and a stainless butter knife. I 
could control the knife temp very easily and make a beautiful flat bulb on the 
gut end, too. Often the soldering iron gets too hot for me.

A candle with the knife on a stack of CDs/cassettes can work but be sure you 
have a low-to-zero soot flame or it _will_ get messy. 

Sean


On Oct 23, 2016, at 4:13 PM, Dan Winheld  wrote:

> Thank You Martin- yes, that's how it's done- basically- and Matthew has given 
> us a few good follow up tips as well.  I haven't owned a soldering iron in 
> many, many decades- so it's the old match stick. cig lighter, flame-thrower 
> options for me as well. Nothing like the smell fried gut in the morning!
> 
> Also check- or double check for low spots on the neck, esp. near the 
> fingerboard/body joint. Sometimes there are nasty surprises. On one of my 
> lutes, the highest fret was a toss-up (to the builder) for a tied 9th or the 
> first (optional of course) wooden fret. Came tied, which I prefer- but it's a 
> low spot that requires the thickest fret of all. Straight-edge on the 
> fingerboard and careful sighting in a good light are necessary here.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/23/2016 12:48 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:
>> On 23/10/2016 18:32, Martin Shepherd wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> A new video in the "tips" series - this time some help with tying frets:
>>> 
>>> https://youtu.be/Qs_pXOoBVLU
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Martin
>> 
>> Dear Martin,
>> 
>> Thanks for the video. Without wanting to question anything you demonstrated 
>> I thought I might add a few points which I consider to be important.
>> 
>> I think that it is advisable to have a set of fret gauges for a particular 
>> instrument (often supplied by the maker) rather than just measuring a fret 
>> to be replaced. Very often over time the diameters of frets change 
>> considerably (the gut generally absorbs humidity and becomes thicker) and 
>> even if one measures an old fret on the part that was sitting on the back of 
>> the neck, it is not necessarily the correct gauge for a replacement. It also 
>> imperative to measure thicknesses of new fret gut with a micrometer as they 
>> rarely correspond exactly to what the manufacturers note on the packet 
>> (especially if they have been stored for some time). Once the new fret is in 
>> place it is always good to check that there are no buzzes.
>> 
>> To avoid the issue of scratching a varnished neck (or a plain fruit wood 
>> neck) with a knot, some people suggest using a slither of thin plastic taken 
>> from an old credit card or the like which can be put under the knot as one 
>> slides it into position. Some makers use a hard wood for the fingerboard 
>> edging which overlaps the neck enough to be able to place the knot on and so 
>> avoid damage to the softer wood on the neck. I have also noticed that it is 
>> advisable to put the running end of the fret through the knot in such a way 
>> as it comes out parallel to the burnt end. In this way one makes sure the 
>> knot lies flat and does not gouge a ridge into the neck.
>> 
>> I try to place the new fret as close as possible to the fret below it (or 
>> the nut in the case of the first fret) so that when put into position it 
>> becomes tight enough (you suggest one centimetre lower than its final 
>> position which doesn't seem quite enough to me).
>> 
>> I have never used a soldering iron to burn the ends of fret gut but find 
>> that good quality matches or a lighter with an adjustable flame are 
>> perfectly safe as long as one holds the neck of the lute horizontally so 
>> that the flame is above the part of the fret one wishes to singe and one 
>> proceeds by gentle touches using the base of the flame.
>> 
>> One last thing. When passing the fret gut under the strings, it's good to 
>> check that no strings have been missed out before tying the knot. There is 
>> nothing more annoying than starting to move a fret into position and 
>> realising that a string has escaped your attention and is above the fret 
>> rather than below it!
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Matthew
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Fretting tips

[Sean Smith]

It’s good to bring these things up from time to time to help our new crop of 
players. I took the liberty of changing the subject line for that purpose. Here 
are a few more tips if I might be so bold (after M’s dialogue).

Martin’s video for reference:  https://youtu.be/Qs_pXOoBVLU


Martin: Thanks for your feedback.  I agree with everything you say.  These 
videos are usually done very quickly and without a script, so I'm bound to 
forget something somewhere!  Also the focus is on beginners, and of course 
there are many things which experienced lutenists do differently.  I have 
interspersed some comments with yours:

On 23/10/2016 21:48, Matthew Daillie wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear Martin,
> 
> Thanks for the video. Without wanting to question anything you demonstrated I 
> thought I might add a few points which I consider to be important.
> 
> I think that it is advisable to have a set of fret gauges for a particular 
> instrument (often supplied by the maker) rather than just measuring a fret to 
> be replaced. Very often over time the diameters of frets change considerably 
> (the gut generally absorbs humidity and becomes thicker) and even if one 
> measures an old fret on the part that was sitting on the back of the neck, it 
> is not necessarily the correct gauge for a replacement. It also imperative to 
> measure thicknesses of new fret gut with a micrometer as they rarely 
> correspond exactly to what the manufacturers note on the packet (especially 
> if they have been stored for some time). Once the new fret is in place it is 
> always good to check that there are no buzzes.
MS: The list of fret sizes provided by the maker is a good starting point of 
course, but often makers - particularly those who are not expert players - give 
a rather arbitrary list which may not be the best solution.  And as you say, 
the diameter is often different from the one on the packet.
> 
> To avoid the issue of scratching a varnished neck (or a plain fruit wood 
> neck) with a knot, some people suggest using a slither of thin plastic taken 
> from an old credit card or the like which can be put under the knot as one 
> slides it into position. Some makers use a hard wood for the fingerboard 
> edging which overlaps the neck enough to be able to place the knot on and so 
> avoid damage to the softer wood on the neck. I have also noticed that it is 
> advisable to put the running end of the fret through the knot in such a way 
> as it comes out parallel to the burnt end. In this way one makes sure the 
> knot lies flat and does not gouge a ridge into the neck.
Credit card would be too thick.  The fingerboard should be hard enough at the 
edge, as you say, hence the importance of having the knot right at the top.  
You're absolutely right about the direction of the running end, but this is 
hard to describe and/or demonstrate.
> 
> I try to place the new fret as close as possible to the fret below it (or the 
> nut in the case of the first fret) so that when put into position it becomes 
> tight enough (you suggest one centimetre lower than its final position which 
> doesn't seem quite enough to me).
I find this method of tying allows me to get frets very tight without having to 
pull them a long distance up the taper of the neck.  In fact with a 
colour-varnished neck I have found it useful to tie them in their correct 
position, helped by the fact that the varnish tends to hold them tighter than a 
smooth ebony-veneered neck.
> 
> I have never used a soldering iron to burn the ends of fret gut but find that 
> good quality matches or a lighter with an adjustable flame are perfectly safe 
> as long as one holds the neck of the lute horizontally so that the flame is 
> above the part of the fret one wishes to singe and one proceeds by gentle 
> touches using the base of the flame.
I often use matches - but I thought it was good to recommend a safer 
alternative for general consumption.
> 
> One last thing. When passing the fret gut under the strings, it's good to 
> check that no strings have been missed out before tying the knot. There is 
> nothing more annoying than starting to move a fret into position and 
> realising that a string has escaped your attention and is above the fret 
> rather than below it!
Yep - I thought I mentioned that in the video - but maybe it was in an out-take.

Sean's additions:

I’d rather use a set fret schedule, too, and if I have to measure a previous 
fret (removed) I always measure the bit where the thumb is. Then I measure it 
in a couple of different orientations for an average since they flatten just 
little bit. 

The micrometer Martin uses can work fine. I might suggest placing it in your 
left hand with the knob upright, putting your little finger through the loop 
(back of the loop against the palm) to hold it and moving the knob between the 
thumb and index finger. Then use your other hand to place the string/whatever 
on the anvil. I find it a smidge less awkward. A few years 

[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

[Sean Smith]

But, … doubled gut frets!

I was struck by how classical guitar-like the fretboard was. Then I kept 
thinking the extension would probably have to be longer on a HIP instrument. 
Now I know. Thanks. Hull and spars notwithstanding, am I right in imagining the 
rigging isn’t very different from a harp guitar?

Sean


On Oct 10, 2016, at 11:06 AM, Jarosław Lipski  wrote:

> The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto attiorbato, but a 
> liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric 
> Bellocq and many others use it, however I would be far from saying that this 
> is a historical instrument - see here http://liuto-forte.com/ueb_00_en.html 
>  It’s easier to play and was specially 
> created with guitarists in mind.
> Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque. Having said that, his 
> performance from musical point of view was successful, and I am glad to see 
> people talking about music on this list :)
> Best
> 




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[LUTE] Re: Attaingnant's Preludes, Chansons, and Dances

[Sean Smith]

Hi Michael,

Is this a modern edition? Secourez moi is in Attaignant's "Tres breve et 
familiare…” (1529) but there are no dances in the book. It would require a 
singer as well since most chansons are presented twice — once as 
Cantus-and-lute and again as a lute solo. 

Sean





On Sep 4, 2016, at 8:09 AM, LSA Lute Rental Program  
wrote:

>   Does anyone know if there exists a recording of all the preludes,
>   chansons, and dances contained in Attaignant's Preludes, Chansons, and
>   Dances for Lute (1529-1530)?
>   I know individual pieces from this have been recorded, some innumerable
>   times, but I am wondering if there exists a recording of all the
>   pieces.   For example, I am trying to find a lute only recording of one
>   of the chansons, Secourez moy (No. 22). But I am also interested in
>   recordings of the other pieces, esp. if they exist in one recorded
>   source.
>   Thanks,
>   Michael
> 
>   --
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Fronimo

[Sean Smith]

What is the URL for the latest Fronimo build?

thanks, Sean



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[LUTE] Re: Hm

[Sean Smith]

Howard, tsk tsk tsk. The dolphin whistles the Van Eyck setting while Arion 
accompanies on b.c.

Sean


On Jul 21, 2016, at 5:29 PM, howard posner  wrote:

> 
>> On Jul 20, 2016, at 11:36 AM, Rainer  wrote:
>> 
>> Arion on a Dolphin playing Lachrimae,
> 
> I’ve heard about Arion riding the dolphin many times, but this is the first 
> time I’ve heard that the dolphin was playing Lachrimae; it strikes me as a 
> difficult feat to accomplish with flippers.
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Practice time [was Re: Quick Callus]

[Sean Smith]

I found that even with fewer hours put into practicing my left hand gets more 
wrung out if the gut strings are aged. Consequently I tend use more pressure to 
get a clean note — which, in turn, ages the strings/frets even more. It’s a bad 
cycle. Same goes for frets. When I’m unconsiously fighting for better tone I 
waste a lot of energy. 

When I was practicing for a concert at the Fringe this month, I parsimoniously 
put off replacing strings and refretting till late in the game. When I realized 
the extent of the problem (about two weeks before the event) I had to take 
almost a week off and then no more than an hour and a half of daily play till 
the show. 

Sean


On Jun 26, 2016, at 7:00 PM, Ed Durbrow  wrote:

> 
> On Jun 27, 2016, at 4:11 AM, John Mardinly  wrote:
> 
>> it seems
>>  to take longer to memorize things than it did when I was young, so
>>  there is a second meaning to the phrase “mindless practice"
> 
> +1 on that.
> 
>>  As for how much practice is necessary? I read an interview with Paul
>>  O’Dette in which he stated he practiced 3.5 hours per day, 
> 
> I remember a seminar long ago where Paul said he did a lot of four hour days 
> when he was learning. We had heard about an Australian lutenist who was 
> reputed to practice 16 hours a day and Paul said he couldn’t do that, he 
> loved life to much - as he snuggled a puppy. I ended up rooming with that 
> Australian lutenist in Basel. He wasn’t practicing that much, but he was 
> frightening as a musician. He would come out of his room and play half a 
> piece that he had memorized and then say just a minute, go back in and come 
> out a while later with the whole thing memorized. And I’m talking 
> Gianoncelli! Robert Clancy was his name.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Red string

[Sean Smith]

Thank you, Martin. I shall do my reading up. Thats a very nice lute!

s

> On May 28, 2016, at 10:10 AM, Martin Shepherd <mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> There is an excellent essay on this painting by David Van Edwards in the 
> latest Lute News.
> 
> There are many paintings showing coloured strings (not just basses, where it 
> might be an indication of loading), Dowland mentions them, and I think some 
> strings were just dyed different colours for some reason which escapes us.
> 
> M
> 
>> On 28/05/2016 18:27, Sean Smith wrote:
>> Hmm, too early for a canarios maybe?
>> 
>> I get the feeling she's not a seasoned player so I'm not taking anything 
>> from her playing style.
>> 
>> Sean
>> 
>>> On May 28, 2016, at 8:15 AM, Edward Martin <edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>   What about the bird on her shoulder?
>>> 
>>>   On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:59 AM, G. C. <[1]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>pls. notice the RH nail contact?
>>>On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Sean Smith
>>> <[1][2]lutesm...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>  Good morning all,
>>>  I was impressed this painting:
>>> 
>>> [2][3]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_
>>> de_
>>>  jaren_veertig_4494.cfm
>>>  I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started
>>> zooming
>>>  around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is
>>>  unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn't heard about this
>>> from
>>>  our modern string revivalists so I'm curious. What do you think
>>> it
>>>  might be?
>>>  Sean
>>>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>>>  [3][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>--
>>> References
>>>1. mailto:[5]lutesm...@gmail.com
>>>2.
>>> [6]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_
>>> jaren_veertig_4494.cfm
>>>3. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>> 
>>>   --
>>> 
>>> References
>>> 
>>>   1. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com
>>>   2. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com
>>>   3. http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_
>>>   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>   5. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com
>>>   6. 
>>> http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jaren_veertig_4494.cfm
>>>   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Red string

[Sean Smith]

Hmm, too early for a canarios maybe? 

I get the feeling she's not a seasoned player so I'm not taking anything from 
her playing style. 

Sean

> On May 28, 2016, at 8:15 AM, Edward Martin <edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   What about the bird on her shoulder?
> 
>   On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:59 AM, G. C. <[1]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>pls. notice the RH nail contact?
>    On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Sean Smith
> <[1][2]lutesm...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>  Good morning all,
>  I was impressed this painting:
> 
> [2][3]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_
> de_
>  jaren_veertig_4494.cfm
>  I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started
> zooming
>  around with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is
>  unrealistic the top string was red. I hadn't heard about this
> from
>  our modern string revivalists so I'm curious. What do you think
> it
>  might be?
>  Sean
>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>  [3][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>--
> References
>1. mailto:[5]lutesm...@gmail.com
>2.
> [6]http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_
> jaren_veertig_4494.cfm
>3. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com
>   2. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com
>   3. http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_
>   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>   5. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com
>   6. 
> http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jaren_veertig_4494.cfm
>   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 

[LUTE] Red string

[Sean Smith]

Good morning all,

I was impressed this painting:
http://www.fondationcustodia.fr/ununiversintime/1_meester_van_de_jaren_veertig_4494.cfm

I appreciate that the artist was very attentive so I started zooming around 
with the magnifier. I noticed that while the spacing is unrealistic the top 
string was red. I hadn’t heard about this from our modern string revivalists so 
I’m curious. What do you think it might be?

Sean



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Not really a lute question but...

[Sean Smith]

Apparently I’m still working from an older bookmark. Thank you for supplying 
the more current address.

Sean



On May 9, 2016, at 3:31 PM, Andrew <andywh...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> I just noticed the other day that the Lute Society of America has a new page, 
> and the facsimiles page is here now.
> 
> http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/Tab-Facsimiles
> 
> 
>> On 10 May 2016, at 7:50 AM, Sean Smith <lutesm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Alternatively, most (all? I haven’t checked all the links) library sites 
>> that offer the vihuela books on the web can be found here:
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/links/Digital-Facsimiles.html<http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/links/Digital-Facsimiles.html>
>> 
>> Sean
>> 
>> 
>> On May 9, 2016, at 2:45 PM, Alan Hoyle <adr...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:adr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Not sure about Windows 10, but on Windows 7 this Vihuela CD-ROM can be made 
>>> to function 'properly' if you select 'Run as Administrator'. I did send 
>>> instructions to Chris Goodwin (a few years ago now) - a pity as I can no 
>>> longer find either the CD-ROM or my copy of the complete sequence of steps 
>>> that ends with selecting 'Run as Administrator' - perhaps a more savvy 
>>> reader of this will know what to do.
>>> 
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 9 May 2016 at 22:34, Sean Smith 
>>> <lutesm...@gmail.com<mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Monica,
>>> 
>>> I have this CD of vihuela books and also found the interface less than 
>>> ideal. I opened it as its own folder (Finder in my case although I imagine 
>>> Explore would do it, too) and found the group of images for each book. I 
>>> named a new folder on my desktop for each book/composer and dragged the 
>>> images en masse to the respective folder. At the end of the day (ok, it 
>>> didn’t take that long) I had a folder for each book. To further help keep 
>>> it straight, I duplicated the images of the tables of content and labeled 
>>> them “TOC, chapter ‘X"’ as needed so I could find the pieces as I need 
>>> them. Then I never used the CD again.
>>> 
>>> I took the liberty of responding to the group as well because I’ve seen 
>>> this come up before concerning this CD. I hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> Sean
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 9, 2016, at 11:48 AM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Many thanks for this.  It will take some time to digest and check
>>>> everything you suggest.
>>>> it was upgraded from Windows 7.
>>>> Inadvertently - it just happened.   The CDROM is of the vihuela books
>>>> and the music CD was newish.
>>>> I don't want to take up too much of
>>>> anyone's time so I'll  try what you suggest and see what happens.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks to others who also replied.
>>>> Best
>>>> Monica
>>>> Original Message
>>>> 
>>>> From: tiorbin...@gmail.com
>>>> Date: 09/05/2016 18:45
>>>> To: "mjlhall@tiscali.
>>>> co.uk"<mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
>>>> Subj: Re: [LUTE] Not really a lute
>>>> question but...
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Monica,
>>>> 
>>>> First thing: is this a problem with one CD
>>>> or all of them? (Had to ask.) If
>>>> it is just one, inspect the surface
>>>> (not the label side) with reflected
>>>> light and look for oil, finger-
>>>> grease, scratches, etc. Inspect the label
>>>> side for damage to the inner
>>>> circumference of the metal layer: that's where
>>>> the 'table of contents'
>>>> resides, and if it is damaged, the CD might not be
>>>> recognized.
>>>> 
>>>> A
>>>> couple of needed questions:
>>>> Did you buy this computer with windows 10
>>>> on it, or is this an upgrade?
>>>> Did the computer come with a CD drive?
>>>> 
>>>> (Hey, at least I'm not asking if you turned it off and back on again!)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If it's not a problem with 'legacy hardware' and drivers that aren't
>>>> 
>>>> available for Windows 10', you should be able to play CDs using (I kid
>>>> you
>>>> not) "Groove Music and Movies and TV". This is M

[LUTE] Re: Not really a lute question but...

[Sean Smith]

Alternatively, most (all? I haven’t checked all the links) library sites that 
offer the vihuela books on the web can be found here:
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/links/Digital-Facsimiles.html

Sean


On May 9, 2016, at 2:45 PM, Alan Hoyle <adr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Not sure about Windows 10, but on Windows 7 this Vihuela CD-ROM can be made 
> to function 'properly' if you select 'Run as Administrator'. I did send 
> instructions to Chris Goodwin (a few years ago now) - a pity as I can no 
> longer find either the CD-ROM or my copy of the complete sequence of steps 
> that ends with selecting 'Run as Administrator' - perhaps a more savvy reader 
> of this will know what to do.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> On 9 May 2016 at 22:34, Sean Smith <lutesm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Monica,
> 
> I have this CD of vihuela books and also found the interface less than ideal. 
> I opened it as its own folder (Finder in my case although I imagine Explore 
> would do it, too) and found the group of images for each book. I named a new 
> folder on my desktop for each book/composer and dragged the images en masse 
> to the respective folder. At the end of the day (ok, it didn’t take that 
> long) I had a folder for each book. To further help keep it straight, I 
> duplicated the images of the tables of content and labeled them “TOC, chapter 
> ‘X"’ as needed so I could find the pieces as I need them. Then I never used 
> the CD again.
> 
> I took the liberty of responding to the group as well because I’ve seen this 
> come up before concerning this CD. I hope this helps.
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
> On May 9, 2016, at 11:48 AM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
> 
> >
> > Many thanks for this.  It will take some time to digest and check
> > everything you suggest.
> > it was upgraded from Windows 7.
> > Inadvertently - it just happened.   The CDROM is of the vihuela books
> > and the music CD was newish.
> > I don't want to take up too much of
> > anyone's time so I'll  try what you suggest and see what happens.
> >
> > Thanks to others who also replied.
> > Best
> > Monica
> > Original Message
> >
> > From: tiorbin...@gmail.com
> > Date: 09/05/2016 18:45
> > To: "mjlhall@tiscali.
> > co.uk"<mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> > Subj: Re: [LUTE] Not really a lute
> > question but...
> >
> > Hi Monica,
> >
> > First thing: is this a problem with one CD
> > or all of them? (Had to ask.) If
> > it is just one, inspect the surface
> > (not the label side) with reflected
> > light and look for oil, finger-
> > grease, scratches, etc. Inspect the label
> > side for damage to the inner
> > circumference of the metal layer: that's where
> > the 'table of contents'
> > resides, and if it is damaged, the CD might not be
> > recognized.
> >
> > A
> > couple of needed questions:
> > Did you buy this computer with windows 10
> > on it, or is this an upgrade?
> > Did the computer come with a CD drive?
> >
> > (Hey, at least I'm not asking if you turned it off and back on again!)
> >
> >
> > If it's not a problem with 'legacy hardware' and drivers that aren't
> >
> > available for Windows 10', you should be able to play CDs using (I kid
> > you
> > not) "Groove Music and Movies and TV". This is Microsoft's new
> > jukebox. It
> > should be in the "All Programs" list accessible from the
> > start button.
> >
> > If you prefer something familiar, you can find the
> > Windows Media Player
> > (which is included in Win10) by using the
> > WindowsKey +R combination, then
> > typing
> > wmplayer.exe 
> > When it
> > appears in the search list, right click it and select "Pin to
> > taskbar",
> > then it's easier to find when you need it.
> >
> > That's what you have to do
> > to play a CD if the computer recognizes the CD
> > player.
> >
> > If it doesn't,
> > it gets harder. The default CD/DVD reader/writer drivers in
> > Windows10
> > _should_ work with anything that isn't physically defective. You
> > should
> > be able to buy a USB DVD/CD player (writer, etc) and plug it in and
> > use
> > it without problems.
> >
> > If your problem is that the CD player is not
> > recognized by the computer, it
> > may be that it isn't getting a good
> > connection. On a notebook computer,
> > some CD/DVD drivers can be removed,
> > and if they are not put all the way
> > back in properly, they might not.
> > 

[LUTE] Re: Not really a lute question but...

[Sean Smith]

Hi Monica,

I have this CD of vihuela books and also found the interface less than ideal. I 
opened it as its own folder (Finder in my case although I imagine Explore would 
do it, too) and found the group of images for each book. I named a new folder 
on my desktop for each book/composer and dragged the images en masse to the 
respective folder. At the end of the day (ok, it didn’t take that long) I had a 
folder for each book. To further help keep it straight, I duplicated the images 
of the tables of content and labeled them “TOC, chapter ‘X"’ as needed so I 
could find the pieces as I need them. Then I never used the CD again.

I took the liberty of responding to the group as well because I’ve seen this 
come up before concerning this CD. I hope this helps.

Sean


On May 9, 2016, at 11:48 AM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:

> 
> Many thanks for this.  It will take some time to digest and check 
> everything you suggest.  
> it was upgraded from Windows 7.  
> Inadvertently - it just happened.   The CDROM is of the vihuela books 
> and the music CD was newish.
> I don't want to take up too much of 
> anyone's time so I'll  try what you suggest and see what happens.
> 
> Thanks to others who also replied.
> Best
> Monica
> Original Message
> 
> From: tiorbin...@gmail.com
> Date: 09/05/2016 18:45 
> To: "mjlhall@tiscali.
> co.uk"
> Subj: Re: [LUTE] Not really a lute 
> question but...
> 
> Hi Monica,
> 
> First thing: is this a problem with one CD 
> or all of them? (Had to ask.) If
> it is just one, inspect the surface 
> (not the label side) with reflected
> light and look for oil, finger-
> grease, scratches, etc. Inspect the label
> side for damage to the inner 
> circumference of the metal layer: that's where
> the 'table of contents' 
> resides, and if it is damaged, the CD might not be
> recognized.
> 
> A 
> couple of needed questions:
> Did you buy this computer with windows 10 
> on it, or is this an upgrade?
> Did the computer come with a CD drive?
> 
> (Hey, at least I'm not asking if you turned it off and back on again!)
> 
> 
> If it's not a problem with 'legacy hardware' and drivers that aren't
> 
> available for Windows 10', you should be able to play CDs using (I kid 
> you
> not) "Groove Music and Movies and TV". This is Microsoft's new 
> jukebox. It
> should be in the "All Programs" list accessible from the 
> start button.
> 
> If you prefer something familiar, you can find the 
> Windows Media Player
> (which is included in Win10) by using the 
> WindowsKey +R combination, then
> typing
> wmplayer.exe 
> When it 
> appears in the search list, right click it and select "Pin to
> taskbar", 
> then it's easier to find when you need it.
> 
> That's what you have to do 
> to play a CD if the computer recognizes the CD
> player.
> 
> If it doesn't, 
> it gets harder. The default CD/DVD reader/writer drivers in
> Windows10 
> _should_ work with anything that isn't physically defective. You
> should 
> be able to buy a USB DVD/CD player (writer, etc) and plug it in and
> use 
> it without problems.
> 
> If your problem is that the CD player is not 
> recognized by the computer, it
> may be that it isn't getting a good 
> connection. On a notebook computer,
> some CD/DVD drivers can be removed, 
> and if they are not put all the way
> back in properly, they might not. 
> In that case, taking them out and putting
> them back in works.
> 
> If you 
> have a desktop, and it was worked on recently or went to a shop to
> have 
> the Win10 update, it is possible that the CD was disconnected, and not
> 
> hooked back up. Fixing that requires getting into the box and hooking 
> it
> back up, and usually, if it was because someone serviced it and 
> forgot to
> hook it back up, they should be happy to correct it. (And 
> test it!)
> 
> Beyond that, you really shouldn't have to go searching for 
> CD/DVD drivers,
> unless the drive is very weird and came with its own 
> driver disk. If it
> did, the likelihood of finding drivers for win10 
> that support it is very
> small. If it was very expensive, the 
> manufacturer's web site might have
> updated drivers. It'd make more 
> sense just to replace it (especially
> because the drives have been 
> improved a lot since the days of specialized
> drivers.)
> 
> If you get 
> through all this without success, or have questions, feel free
> to write 
> back, I'll do what I can.
> 
> Best regards,
> Ray
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 
> 12:00 PM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk <
> mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Does 
> anyone know how to play CDs or CDROMS on Windows 10. Does seem to
>> 
> have any drives for this...
>> Best wishes to all.
>> Monica
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To 
> get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute

[Sean Smith]

Dear Zak,

Thankfully this is not about tuning. 

The Libro d’intavolatura is indeed fascinating and deserves greater interest. I 
have a question about your word “circulated”. I was under the impression that 
VG prepared the ms. for publication and it never proceeded further. Since it 
remained in his possession he added to it later.

In Orlando Cristoforetti’s introduction there is no information on the fate of 
the manuscript between the addition of his final pieces and its present 
location. He does note that there are two pieces added in a different hand 
which may indicate another or later owner. Are there pieces that are found in 
other sources or are there other indications of circulation?

Sean



On Jan 28, 2016, at 2:08 PM, zak ozmo  wrote:

>  Dear friends and colleagues,
> 
>  I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new solo lute CD on
>  Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute:
> 
> 
>  [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
> 
> 
>  This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered lute section
>  of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering dances in
>  major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the chromatic
>  scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S. Bachs The
>  Well Tempered Clavier!  I hope the recording will be of interest.
> 
> 
>  With all best wishes,
> 
> 
>  Zak Ozmo
> 
> 
>  [2]www.zakozmo.com
> 
>  [3]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk
> 
> 
>  --
> 
> References
> 
>  1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs
>  2. http://www.zakozmo.com/
>  3. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] El atanbor

[Sean Smith]

Dear vihuelists, guitarists and historians,

The final piece in Valderabanos’ vihuela books is a "para discantar" over a 
one-measure “punto” 'commonly known as “el atanbor”’. 

Is there a meaning to this Atanbor? I’ve never seen in in relation to 
lute/vihuela music before. 

In the final line of the incipit there is the phrase:

“… o en guitarr su tercera en vazio a los vieios con tercera en lleno de la 
vihuela en unisonus.” 

I have negligible spanish skills - could someone translate this for me? I could 
send an image of the incipit to whomever needs it.

Much appreciated in advance, 

Sean





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: El atanbor

[Sean Smith]

Thanks, Daniel.  

As in ’tambourine’. Silly me. 

I do plan on using a ren. guitar in the ensemble for the ‘punto’ so I should 
read the instructions.

Sean


On Jan 18, 2016, at 7:14 PM, Daniel F. Heiman <heiman.dan...@juno.com> wrote:

> Sean:
> 
> El ata~bor = tambor, a drum.  The tilde over a vowel may represent either an
> "n" or an "m," depending on the context.  In fact, the short ostinato does
> sound a bit like a drum.
> 
> The section at the end of the discussion is telling you how to use a guitar
> as a substitute for a vihuela when playing the part.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Daniel
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
> Of Sean Smith
> Sent: 18 January, 2016 18:57
> To: lute list
> Subject: [LUTE] El atanbor
> 
> 
> Dear vihuelists, guitarists and historians,
> 
> The final piece in Valderabanos' vihuela books is a "para discantar" over a
> one-measure "punto" 'commonly known as "el atanbor"'. 
> 
> Is there a meaning to this Atanbor? I've never seen in in relation to
> lute/vihuela music before. 
> 
> In the final line of the incipit there is the phrase:
> 
> ". o en guitarr su tercera en vazio a los vieios con tercera en lleno de la
> vihuela en unisonus." 
> 
> I have negligible spanish skills - could someone translate this for me? I
> could send an image of the incipit to whomever needs it.
> 
> Much appreciated in advance, 
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>