Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Peter Morgano]

No need to apologize, hope everyone stays safe today.
On Jul 4, 2012 6:56 PM, "James Warren"  wrote:

> I apologize to Peter for sounding patronizing.
>
> Happy 4th of July, everyone.
>
> -Jim W.
>
> P.S. Just came back from a great sibling/nephew ride in coastal San Diego.
> It was Hillbornian. Details to follow.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 4, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Peter Morgano  wrote:
>
> Haha,  it was just a funny comment to me since it came off so patronizing.
> We all have our perfect bike in our mind and doubtful we would all agree on
> the same thing but it is fun to "discuss"  our difference in opinions.
> On Jul 4, 2012 4:50 PM, "newenglandbike"  wrote:
>
>>
>> "I like how anyone who wants options is like a leper, haha.  "you have
>> eccentric hubs"  Let us eat cake!"
>>
>> LOL!   It's a bike Rivendell might offer, that might have vertical
>> dropouts, or might have horizontal ones. Both afford the user options,
>> both have drawbacks.   Nobody is shunning/oppressing anybody, I don't
>> think!  This is a bicycle forum, so expect some zealotry but don't let
>> it make you feel bad.:)
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 2:35:58 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:
>>>
>>> I like how anyone who wants options is like a leper, haha.  "you have
>>> eccentric hubs"  Let us eat cake!
>>> On Jul 4, 2012 2:06 PM, "James Warren"  wrote:
>>>
 I've had slipping rear wheel problems, it's annoying, and I've even
 heard of some reputable people struggle with it. We're capable of
 functioning with horizontals, but as Steve said, they can be a pain.

 - Jim W.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 4, 2012, at 10:42 AM, Peter Morgano 
 wrote:

  20 years of riding at least 10 different bikes with horizontal
 drops,  never an issue with slipping and again 30 seconds to set up oh and
 I am 240 and rode fixes with horizontal drops, again no slipping. Options
 are nice, especially if they want to get a broad audience.
 On Jul 4, 2012 1:34 PM, "PATRICK MOORE"  wrote:

> I agree that verticals are better for derailleurs, but what about
> buyers who may want to use a ss hub or hub gear? Are they to be
> deprived of the cheapest Rivendell?
>
> Note that this comes from someone who overrode Grant's suggestion of
> horizontals for two customs and ended up fixi-fying them: one with an
> ENO and one with replacement 1010s.
>
> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Seth Vidal  wrote:
> > Heartily agreed, steve.
> >
> > -sv
> >
> > On Jul 4, 2012 1:11 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> >> > +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
> >>
> >> Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users
> of
> >> derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur
> drive
> >> train.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE <
> bertin...@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
> >> > spends high
> >> > $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers
> own,
> >> > along
> >> > with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
> >> > least to
> >> > judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves
> at
> >> > my (as
> >> > rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's
> house.
> >> >
> >> > I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.
> **com .
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com
> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >> http://groups.google.com/**group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en
> .
> >>
> > --
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> Groups
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> *com .
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> .
> > For more options, visit this group at
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> .
>
>
>
> --
> "Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you."
>
> Flannery O'Connor
>
> -
> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
> For professional resumes,

Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[James Warren]

I apologize to Peter for sounding patronizing.

Happy 4th of July, everyone.

-Jim W.

P.S. Just came back from a great sibling/nephew ride in coastal San Diego. It 
was Hillbornian. Details to follow.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 4, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Peter Morgano  wrote:

> Haha,  it was just a funny comment to me since it came off so patronizing. We 
> all have our perfect bike in our mind and doubtful we would all agree on the 
> same thing but it is fun to "discuss"  our difference in opinions.
> 
> On Jul 4, 2012 4:50 PM, "newenglandbike"  wrote:
> 
> "I like how anyone who wants options is like a leper, haha.  "you have 
> eccentric hubs"  Let us eat cake!"
> 
> LOL!   It's a bike Rivendell might offer, that might have vertical dropouts, 
> or might have horizontal ones. Both afford the user options, both have 
> drawbacks.   Nobody is shunning/oppressing anybody, I don't think!  This 
> is a bicycle forum, so expect some zealotry but don't let it make you feel 
> bad.:)
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 2:35:58 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:
> I like how anyone who wants options is like a leper, haha.  "you have 
> eccentric hubs"  Let us eat cake!
> 
> On Jul 4, 2012 2:06 PM, "James Warren"  wrote:
> I've had slipping rear wheel problems, it's annoying, and I've even heard of 
> some reputable people struggle with it. We're capable of functioning with 
> horizontals, but as Steve said, they can be a pain.
> 
> - Jim W.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 4, 2012, at 10:42 AM, Peter Morgano  wrote:
> 
>> 20 years of riding at least 10 different bikes with horizontal drops,  never 
>> an issue with slipping and again 30 seconds to set up oh and I am 240 and 
>> rode fixes with horizontal drops, again no slipping. Options are nice, 
>> especially if they want to get a broad audience. 
>> 
>> On Jul 4, 2012 1:34 PM, "PATRICK MOORE"  wrote:
>> I agree that verticals are better for derailleurs, but what about
>> buyers who may want to use a ss hub or hub gear? Are they to be
>> deprived of the cheapest Rivendell?
>> 
>> Note that this comes from someone who overrode Grant's suggestion of
>> horizontals for two customs and ended up fixi-fying them: one with an
>> ENO and one with replacement 1010s.
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Seth Vidal  wrote:
>> > Heartily agreed, steve.
>> >
>> > -sv
>> >
>> > On Jul 4, 2012 1:11 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
>> >> > +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
>> >>
>> >> Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users of
>> >> derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur drive
>> >> train.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
>> >> > spends high
>> >> > $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own,
>> >> > along
>> >> > with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
>> >> > least to
>> >> > judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at
>> >> > my (as
>> >> > rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's house.
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>> >>
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> "Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you."
>> 
>> Flannery O'Connor
>> 
>> -
>> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
>> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
>> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
>> -
>> 
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
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>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" 

Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[cyclotourist]

I've developed a problem w/ horizontals on one of my bikes. Never had a
problem before or with other bikes, but it's pretty frustrating and
possibly going to be an expensive fix. I foolishly ordered horizontal when
I had it built thinking I wanted the option of riding it SS. Mistakes were
made, lessons learned...

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:06 AM, James Warren wrote:

> I've had slipping rear wheel problems, it's annoying, and I've even heard
> of some reputable people struggle with it. We're capable of functioning
> with horizontals, but as Steve said, they can be a pain.
>
> - Jim W.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 4, 2012, at 10:42 AM, Peter Morgano 
> wrote:
>
> 20 years of riding at least 10 different bikes with horizontal drops,
> never an issue with slipping and again 30 seconds to set up oh and I am 240
> and rode fixes with horizontal drops, again no slipping. Options are nice,
> especially if they want to get a broad audience.
> On Jul 4, 2012 1:34 PM, "PATRICK MOORE"  wrote:
>
>> I agree that verticals are better for derailleurs, but what about
>> buyers who may want to use a ss hub or hub gear? Are they to be
>> deprived of the cheapest Rivendell?
>>
>> Note that this comes from someone who overrode Grant's suggestion of
>> horizontals for two customs and ended up fixi-fying them: one with an
>> ENO and one with replacement 1010s.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Seth Vidal  wrote:
>> > Heartily agreed, steve.
>> >
>> > -sv
>> >
>> > On Jul 4, 2012 1:11 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
>> >> > +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
>> >>
>> >> Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users of
>> >> derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur
>> drive
>> >> train.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
>> >> > spends high
>> >> > $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own,
>> >> > along
>> >> > with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
>> >> > least to
>> >> > judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at
>> >> > my (as
>> >> > rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's
>> house.
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>> .
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>> >>
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you."
>>
>> Flannery O'Connor
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
>> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
>> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
>> -
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>> For more options, visit this group at
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>>
>>  --
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-- 
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

**
“I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America
that’s the America millions of Americans believe in. That’s the America I
love.”

-- 
You received this messa

Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Peter Morgano]

Haha,  it was just a funny comment to me since it came off so patronizing.
We all have our perfect bike in our mind and doubtful we would all agree on
the same thing but it is fun to "discuss"  our difference in opinions.
On Jul 4, 2012 4:50 PM, "newenglandbike"  wrote:

>
> "I like how anyone who wants options is like a leper, haha.  "you have
> eccentric hubs"  Let us eat cake!"
>
> LOL!   It's a bike Rivendell might offer, that might have vertical
> dropouts, or might have horizontal ones. Both afford the user options,
> both have drawbacks.   Nobody is shunning/oppressing anybody, I don't
> think!  This is a bicycle forum, so expect some zealotry but don't let
> it make you feel bad.:)
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 2:35:58 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:
>>
>> I like how anyone who wants options is like a leper, haha.  "you have
>> eccentric hubs"  Let us eat cake!
>> On Jul 4, 2012 2:06 PM, "James Warren"  wrote:
>>
>>> I've had slipping rear wheel problems, it's annoying, and I've even
>>> heard of some reputable people struggle with it. We're capable of
>>> functioning with horizontals, but as Steve said, they can be a pain.
>>>
>>> - Jim W.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 4, 2012, at 10:42 AM, Peter Morgano 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 20 years of riding at least 10 different bikes with horizontal drops,
>>> never an issue with slipping and again 30 seconds to set up oh and I am 240
>>> and rode fixes with horizontal drops, again no slipping. Options are nice,
>>> especially if they want to get a broad audience.
>>> On Jul 4, 2012 1:34 PM, "PATRICK MOORE"  wrote:
>>>
 I agree that verticals are better for derailleurs, but what about
 buyers who may want to use a ss hub or hub gear? Are they to be
 deprived of the cheapest Rivendell?

 Note that this comes from someone who overrode Grant's suggestion of
 horizontals for two customs and ended up fixi-fying them: one with an
 ENO and one with replacement 1010s.

 On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Seth Vidal  wrote:
 > Heartily agreed, steve.
 >
 > -sv
 >
 > On Jul 4, 2012 1:11 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
 >>
 >> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
 >> > +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
 >>
 >> Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users
 of
 >> derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur
 drive
 >> train.
 >>
 >>
 >> >
 >> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE <
 bertin...@gmail.com>
 >> > wrote:
 >> > I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
 >> > spends high
 >> > $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers
 own,
 >> > along
 >> > with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
 >> > least to
 >> > judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves
 at
 >> > my (as
 >> > rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's
 house.
 >> >
 >> > I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> --
 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups
 >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.*
 *com .
 >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
 >> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com
 .
 >> For more options, visit this group at
 >> http://groups.google.com/**group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en
 .
 >>
 > --
 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups
 > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.**
 com .
 > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
 > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com
 .
 > For more options, visit this group at
 > http://groups.google.com/**group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en
 .



 --
 "Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you."

 Flannery O'Connor

 -
 Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
 For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
 http://resumespecialties.com/**index.html
 -

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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[newenglandbike]

"I like how anyone who wants options is like a leper, haha.  "you have 
eccentric hubs"  Let us eat cake!"

LOL!   It's a bike Rivendell might offer, that might have vertical 
dropouts, or might have horizontal ones. Both afford the user options, 
both have drawbacks.   Nobody is shunning/oppressing anybody, I don't 
think!  This is a bicycle forum, so expect some zealotry but don't let 
it make you feel bad.:)


On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 2:35:58 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:
>
> I like how anyone who wants options is like a leper, haha.  "you have 
> eccentric hubs"  Let us eat cake! 
> On Jul 4, 2012 2:06 PM, "James Warren"  wrote:
>
>> I've had slipping rear wheel problems, it's annoying, and I've even heard 
>> of some reputable people struggle with it. We're capable of functioning 
>> with horizontals, but as Steve said, they can be a pain.
>>
>> - Jim W.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 4, 2012, at 10:42 AM, Peter Morgano  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 20 years of riding at least 10 different bikes with horizontal drops,  
>> never an issue with slipping and again 30 seconds to set up oh and I am 240 
>> and rode fixes with horizontal drops, again no slipping. Options are nice, 
>> especially if they want to get a broad audience.  
>> On Jul 4, 2012 1:34 PM, "PATRICK MOORE"  wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that verticals are better for derailleurs, but what about
>>> buyers who may want to use a ss hub or hub gear? Are they to be
>>> deprived of the cheapest Rivendell?
>>>
>>> Note that this comes from someone who overrode Grant's suggestion of
>>> horizontals for two customs and ended up fixi-fying them: one with an
>>> ENO and one with replacement 1010s.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Seth Vidal  wrote:
>>> > Heartily agreed, steve.
>>> >
>>> > -sv
>>> >
>>> > On Jul 4, 2012 1:11 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
>>> >> > +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
>>> >>
>>> >> Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users of
>>> >> derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur 
>>> drive
>>> >> train.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE >> >
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> > I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
>>> >> > spends high
>>> >> > $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers 
>>> own,
>>> >> > along
>>> >> > with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
>>> >> > least to
>>> >> > judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at
>>> >> > my (as
>>> >> > rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's 
>>> house.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups
>>> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> >> To post to this group, send email to 
>>> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> >> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>>> >>
>>> > --
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups
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>>> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>>> .
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > For more options, visit this group at
>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you."
>>>
>>> Flannery O'Connor
>>>
>>> -
>>> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
>>> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
>>> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
>>> -
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>>
>>>  -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Joe Bernard]

People PLEASE. If Grant wants to snag some Surly/SOMA buyers with a cheaper 
Rivendell sold as a complete derailer bike, he's gonna use verticals like 
they do. If any Riv were a candidate for "eccentric dropouts", it would be 
the HS/Rosco/Bosco, which is not intended to have a front derailer. This 
not-for-big-hills cruiser is a better candidate for SS or IGH. 
 
Joe "please produce the Bosco" Bernard
Vallejo, CA. 

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 11:59:55 AM UTC-7, Philip Williamson wrote:

> I'm a giant fan of fixed gear bikes, but I'm tired of horizontal dropouts. 
> If a bike is made for derailleurs, vertical makes more sense. I might 
> prefer verticals all around, and use an eccentric ENO hub. Most of my 
> aspirational bikes come with Phil eccentric bottom brackets to get the 
> advantage of verticality. 
>
>  Philip
>
> Philip Williamson
> www.biketinker.com
>
> On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 11:54:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:39 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote: 
>> > 
>> > * Why would you want to mar, disfigure, upset, compromise, handicap, 
>> > uglify and depreciate a **Rivendell** -- even the cheapest!! -- with a 
>> > (gawd-DAMN!!) derailleur??!! 
>> > 
>>
>> You do realize the bike in question will come delivered with 
>> derailleurs, according to the Riv blog? 
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Philip Williamson]

I'm a giant fan of fixed gear bikes, but I'm tired of horizontal dropouts. 
If a bike is made for derailleurs, vertical makes more sense. I might 
prefer verticals all around, and use an eccentric ENO hub. Most of my 
aspirational bikes come with Phil eccentric bottom brackets to get the 
advantage of verticality. 

 Philip

Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com

On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 11:54:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:39 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote: 
> > 
> > * Why would you want to mar, disfigure, upset, compromise, handicap, 
> > uglify and depreciate a **Rivendell** -- even the cheapest!! -- with a 
> > (gawd-DAMN!!) derailleur??!! 
> > 
>
> You do realize the bike in question will come delivered with 
> derailleurs, according to the Riv blog? 
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[PATRICK MOORE]

The question stands.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:39 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
>>
>> * Why would you want to mar, disfigure, upset, compromise, handicap,
>> uglify and depreciate a **Rivendell** -- even the cheapest!! -- with a
>> (gawd-DAMN!!) derailleur??!!
>>
>
> You do realize the bike in question will come delivered with
> derailleurs, according to the Riv blog?
>
>
>
> --
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Flannery O'Connor

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-

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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:39 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
> 
> * Why would you want to mar, disfigure, upset, compromise, handicap,
> uglify and depreciate a **Rivendell** -- even the cheapest!! -- with a
> (gawd-DAMN!!) derailleur??!!
> 

You do realize the bike in question will come delivered with
derailleurs, according to the Riv blog?



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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[PATRICK MOORE]

I used an ENO on my first (1994) Riv custom and found that the brake
bridge was low enough that my 32 mm tire would rub the fender under
said bridge unless I took the trouble to rotate the hub *downward*
when uptaking chain slack -- an operation that I personally judge to
be 25.97865473% harder than installing a wheel straight into
horizontal dropouts on a derailleur bike. (On another, non-Riv ENO
conversion, I discovered that the ENO's takeup would not extend to
three teeth, while at the same time discovering that it did extend to
marginalizing the rear brake pads unless I fiddled with a compromise
placement.)

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Peter Morgano  wrote:
> I like how anyone who wants options is like a leper, haha.  "you have
> eccentric hubs"  Let us eat cake!
>
> On Jul 4, 2012 2:06 PM, "James Warren"  wrote:
>>
>> I've had slipping rear wheel problems, it's annoying, and I've even heard
>> of some reputable people struggle with it. We're capable of functioning with
>> horizontals, but as Steve said, they can be a pain.
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Peter Morgano]

I like how anyone who wants options is like a leper, haha.  "you have
eccentric hubs"  Let us eat cake!
On Jul 4, 2012 2:06 PM, "James Warren"  wrote:

> I've had slipping rear wheel problems, it's annoying, and I've even heard
> of some reputable people struggle with it. We're capable of functioning
> with horizontals, but as Steve said, they can be a pain.
>
> - Jim W.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 4, 2012, at 10:42 AM, Peter Morgano 
> wrote:
>
> 20 years of riding at least 10 different bikes with horizontal drops,
> never an issue with slipping and again 30 seconds to set up oh and I am 240
> and rode fixes with horizontal drops, again no slipping. Options are nice,
> especially if they want to get a broad audience.
> On Jul 4, 2012 1:34 PM, "PATRICK MOORE"  wrote:
>
>> I agree that verticals are better for derailleurs, but what about
>> buyers who may want to use a ss hub or hub gear? Are they to be
>> deprived of the cheapest Rivendell?
>>
>> Note that this comes from someone who overrode Grant's suggestion of
>> horizontals for two customs and ended up fixi-fying them: one with an
>> ENO and one with replacement 1010s.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Seth Vidal  wrote:
>> > Heartily agreed, steve.
>> >
>> > -sv
>> >
>> > On Jul 4, 2012 1:11 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
>> >> > +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
>> >>
>> >> Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users of
>> >> derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur
>> drive
>> >> train.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
>> >> > spends high
>> >> > $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own,
>> >> > along
>> >> > with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
>> >> > least to
>> >> > judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at
>> >> > my (as
>> >> > rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's
>> house.
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
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>> Groups
>> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>> .
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you."
>>
>> Flannery O'Connor
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
>> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
>> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
>> -
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[James Warren]

I've had slipping rear wheel problems, it's annoying, and I've even heard of 
some reputable people struggle with it. We're capable of functioning with 
horizontals, but as Steve said, they can be a pain.

- Jim W.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 4, 2012, at 10:42 AM, Peter Morgano  wrote:

> 20 years of riding at least 10 different bikes with horizontal drops,  never 
> an issue with slipping and again 30 seconds to set up oh and I am 240 and 
> rode fixes with horizontal drops, again no slipping. Options are nice, 
> especially if they want to get a broad audience. 
> 
> On Jul 4, 2012 1:34 PM, "PATRICK MOORE"  wrote:
> I agree that verticals are better for derailleurs, but what about
> buyers who may want to use a ss hub or hub gear? Are they to be
> deprived of the cheapest Rivendell?
> 
> Note that this comes from someone who overrode Grant's suggestion of
> horizontals for two customs and ended up fixi-fying them: one with an
> ENO and one with replacement 1010s.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Seth Vidal  wrote:
> > Heartily agreed, steve.
> >
> > -sv
> >
> > On Jul 4, 2012 1:11 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> >> > +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
> >>
> >> Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users of
> >> derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur drive
> >> train.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE 
> >> > wrote:
> >> > I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
> >> > spends high
> >> > $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own,
> >> > along
> >> > with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
> >> > least to
> >> > judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at
> >> > my (as
> >> > rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's house.
> >> >
> >> > I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> >>
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> 
> 
> 
> --
> "Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you."
> 
> Flannery O'Connor
> 
> -
> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
> -
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[newenglandbike]

+1 for no problems with horiz. dropouts and QRs. I certainly haven't 
had any issues with slippage on my quickbeam with the stock Suzue QR hub, 
and I've really stomped on the pedals sometimes.  BUT, I do like 
vertical dropouts nonetheless, since they are just that much easier when 
you're fixing a flat or what not since the wheel is aligned as soon as you 
drop it in.If you want to make a SS/fixie, you have eccentric hubs.


On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 1:42:31 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:
>
> 20 years of riding at least 10 different bikes with horizontal drops,  
> never an issue with slipping and again 30 seconds to set up oh and I am 240 
> and rode fixes with horizontal drops, again no slipping. Options are nice, 
> especially if they want to get a broad audience.  
> On Jul 4, 2012 1:34 PM, "PATRICK MOORE"  wrote:
>
>> I agree that verticals are better for derailleurs, but what about
>> buyers who may want to use a ss hub or hub gear? Are they to be
>> deprived of the cheapest Rivendell?
>>
>> Note that this comes from someone who overrode Grant's suggestion of
>> horizontals for two customs and ended up fixi-fying them: one with an
>> ENO and one with replacement 1010s.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Seth Vidal  wrote:
>> > Heartily agreed, steve.
>> >
>> > -sv
>> >
>> > On Jul 4, 2012 1:11 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
>> >> > +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
>> >>
>> >> Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users of
>> >> derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur 
>> drive
>> >> train.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
>> >> > spends high
>> >> > $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own,
>> >> > along
>> >> > with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
>> >> > least to
>> >> > judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at
>> >> > my (as
>> >> > rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's 
>> house.
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups
>> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> .
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>> >>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> "Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you."
>>
>> Flannery O'Connor
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
>> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
>> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
>> -
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Peter Morgano]

20 years of riding at least 10 different bikes with horizontal drops,
never an issue with slipping and again 30 seconds to set up oh and I am 240
and rode fixes with horizontal drops, again no slipping. Options are nice,
especially if they want to get a broad audience.
On Jul 4, 2012 1:34 PM, "PATRICK MOORE"  wrote:

> I agree that verticals are better for derailleurs, but what about
> buyers who may want to use a ss hub or hub gear? Are they to be
> deprived of the cheapest Rivendell?
>
> Note that this comes from someone who overrode Grant's suggestion of
> horizontals for two customs and ended up fixi-fying them: one with an
> ENO and one with replacement 1010s.
>
> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Seth Vidal  wrote:
> > Heartily agreed, steve.
> >
> > -sv
> >
> > On Jul 4, 2012 1:11 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> >> > +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
> >>
> >> Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users of
> >> derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur drive
> >> train.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE 
> >> > wrote:
> >> > I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
> >> > spends high
> >> > $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own,
> >> > along
> >> > with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
> >> > least to
> >> > judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at
> >> > my (as
> >> > rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's house.
> >> >
> >> > I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>
>
> --
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>
> Flannery O'Connor
>
> -
> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
> -
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[PATRICK MOORE]

Steve: First, no one who is competent ever had more than 1/2 second's
drawback putting a derailleur wheel into horizontal dropouts. Second,
as to the argument from who is to suffer for others' convenience, that
is surely a double edged sword and reduces to "I want" versus "they
want."

As to the availability of sturdy, steel internal-cam QRs, if all the
cheap MTB and second bike boom road bike QRs disappear off the market,
Riv can source them from some obscure Shanghai maker and add them to
the build kit for those who (strangely) want derailleurs * for a
sizable premium.

* Why would you want to mar, disfigure, upset, compromise, handicap,
uglify and depreciate a **Rivendell** -- even the cheapest!! -- with a
(gawd-DAMN!!) derailleur??!!

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
> Horizontal dropouts NEVER worked "well."  They worked lousy, and they
> slipped even with the "good" style quick releases -- and these days, the
> good style quick releases are getting scarce.  Why should most of us
> suffer so that a tiny handful have the option to remove the supplied
> drive train on this bargain basement Riv and pay extra to install an
> internal gear hub?

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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[PATRICK MOORE]

I agree that verticals are better for derailleurs, but what about
buyers who may want to use a ss hub or hub gear? Are they to be
deprived of the cheapest Rivendell?

Note that this comes from someone who overrode Grant's suggestion of
horizontals for two customs and ended up fixi-fying them: one with an
ENO and one with replacement 1010s.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Seth Vidal  wrote:
> Heartily agreed, steve.
>
> -sv
>
> On Jul 4, 2012 1:11 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
>> > +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
>>
>> Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users of
>> derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur drive
>> train.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE 
>> > wrote:
>> > I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
>> > spends high
>> > $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own,
>> > along
>> > with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
>> > least to
>> > judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at
>> > my (as
>> > rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's house.
>> >
>> > I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Garth]

I would embrace horizontal dropouts too.   I've never had an issue with one 
since the 70's ... ever .  Vertical I have had issues. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 13:22 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> Bah, horizontal drops worked well for decades and the give the option
> to go SS or internal, why not have options?  Setting a wheel straight
> in a dropout takes about 30 seconds. 

Horizontal dropouts NEVER worked "well."  They worked lousy, and they
slipped even with the "good" style quick releases -- and these days, the
good style quick releases are getting scarce.  Why should most of us
suffer so that a tiny handful have the option to remove the supplied
drive train on this bargain basement Riv and pay extra to install an
internal gear hub?



> 
> On Jul 4, 2012 1:19 PM, "James Warren" 
> wrote:
> Agreed. Verticals are so much nicer on a derailler bike, and
> you never have to worry about wheel slippage when using QR.
> 
> -Jim W.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 4, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Steve Palincsar
>  wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> >> +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
> >
> > Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit
> for users of
> > derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a
> derailleur drive
> > train.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE
> 
> >> wrote:
> >>I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of
> course)
> >>spends high
> >>$ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many
> listers own,
> >>along
> >>with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy
> phones/service, at
> >>least to
> >>judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the
> shelves at
> >>my (as
> >>rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my
> mother's house.
> >>
> >>I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Peter Morgano]

Bah, horizontal drops worked well for decades and the give the option to go
SS or internal, why not have options?  Setting a wheel straight in a
dropout takes about 30 seconds.
On Jul 4, 2012 1:19 PM, "James Warren"  wrote:

> Agreed. Verticals are so much nicer on a derailler bike, and you never
> have to worry about wheel slippage when using QR.
>
> -Jim W.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 4, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> >> +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
> >
> > Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users of
> > derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur drive
> > train.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE 
> >> wrote:
> >>I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
> >>spends high
> >>$ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own,
> >>along
> >>with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
> >>least to
> >>judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at
> >>my (as
> >>rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's house.
> >>
> >>I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Seth Vidal]

Heartily agreed, steve.

-sv
On Jul 4, 2012 1:11 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:

> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> > +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
>
> Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users of
> derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur drive
> train.
>
>
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE 
> > wrote:
> > I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
> > spends high
> > $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own,
> > along
> > with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
> > least to
> > judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at
> > my (as
> > rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's house.
> >
> > I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[James Warren]

Agreed. Verticals are so much nicer on a derailler bike, and you never have to 
worry about wheel slippage when using QR.

-Jim W.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 4, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
>> +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops
> 
> Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users of
> derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur drive
> train.
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE 
>> wrote:
>>I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
>>spends high
>>$ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own,
>>along
>>with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
>>least to
>>judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at
>>my (as
>>rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's house.
>> 
>>I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 11:53 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> +1 on all that, especially horizontal drops

Why?  They're an enormous pain in the a$$ with no benefit for users of
derailleur drive trains, and this bike is coming with a derailleur drive
train.


> 
> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE 
> wrote:
> I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course)
> spends high
> $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own,
> along
> with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at
> least to
> judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at
> my (as
> rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's house.
> 
> I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.




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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Peter Morgano]

+1 on all that, especially horizontal drops

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:

> I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course) spends high
> $ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own, along
> with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at least to
> judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at my (as
> rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's house.
>
> I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.
>
> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Peter Morgano 
> wrote:
> > Unfortunately everyone cant own a Rivendell, it is a bit of a luxury item
> > but one that is beautiful and functional. So unlike a set of earrings or
> a
> > new watch you can actually do something with a 2k Rivendell. This new
> > project will at least lower that cost restriction but it will still be
> > "insane" for the Xmart crowd and those who get 30 year old racing bikes
> for
> > 200 bucks off of CL but if does help to bring them into the fold.
>  Looking
> > at the site they have a complete Simpleone for $1,400 which they said is
> > about thier target on this new bike. I suppose if you used cheaper tubing
> > and did a solid color powdercoat you could get some microshift stuff on
> > there for around the same price point.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Beth H  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:00:45 PM UTC-7, Manuel Acosta wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Beater Rivendell?  I thought all Rivendells are suppose to be ridden to
> >>> the ground?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well, yeah. Which is why some aspects of this development make me
> scratch
> >> my head.
> >>
> >> "Cheap"? $1,400 ain't cheap if you're an hourly-wage worker. It isn't
> even
> >> "affordable". Perhaps find a different word.
> >> "Value-packed", maybe.
> >>
> >> My shop does this with Surly Big Dummy frames. We build them up with a
> >> smart combination of new and used parts to keep the total price under
> >> $2,000. This is how you make bicycle transportation more affordable and
> more
> >> accessible.
> >>
> >> While I applaud RBW's stance on avoiding stuff made in China, I predict
> >> that this will become harder and harder to do -- and in a relatively
> short
> >> time. And when that happens, further developments at RBW will be
> interesting
> >> to watch.
> >>
> >> Off to ride my BGR (Beautiful Green Riv) -- further into the ground.
> >>
> >> Cheers --Beth
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/JtO_wsfK12UJ.
> >>
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> >
> >
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>
>
>
> --
> "Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you."
>
> Flannery O'Connor
>
> -
> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[PATRICK MOORE]

I guess that the Xmart crowd often (not always, of course) spends high
$ on cars and big trucks a lot fancier than many listers own, along
with big TVs, electronic junk and fancy phones/service, at least to
judge by what I see in the parking lot and on the shelves at my (as
rare as possible) trips to the WalMart near my mother's house.

I hope the new bike has horizontal dropouts.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Peter Morgano  wrote:
> Unfortunately everyone cant own a Rivendell, it is a bit of a luxury item
> but one that is beautiful and functional. So unlike a set of earrings or a
> new watch you can actually do something with a 2k Rivendell. This new
> project will at least lower that cost restriction but it will still be
> "insane" for the Xmart crowd and those who get 30 year old racing bikes for
> 200 bucks off of CL but if does help to bring them into the fold.  Looking
> at the site they have a complete Simpleone for $1,400 which they said is
> about thier target on this new bike. I suppose if you used cheaper tubing
> and did a solid color powdercoat you could get some microshift stuff on
> there for around the same price point.
>
> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Beth H  wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:00:45 PM UTC-7, Manuel Acosta wrote:
>>>
>>> Beater Rivendell?  I thought all Rivendells are suppose to be ridden to
>>> the ground?
>>>
>>
>> Well, yeah. Which is why some aspects of this development make me scratch
>> my head.
>>
>> "Cheap"? $1,400 ain't cheap if you're an hourly-wage worker. It isn't even
>> "affordable". Perhaps find a different word.
>> "Value-packed", maybe.
>>
>> My shop does this with Surly Big Dummy frames. We build them up with a
>> smart combination of new and used parts to keep the total price under
>> $2,000. This is how you make bicycle transportation more affordable and more
>> accessible.
>>
>> While I applaud RBW's stance on avoiding stuff made in China, I predict
>> that this will become harder and harder to do -- and in a relatively short
>> time. And when that happens, further developments at RBW will be interesting
>> to watch.
>>
>> Off to ride my BGR (Beautiful Green Riv) -- further into the ground.
>>
>> Cheers --Beth
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/JtO_wsfK12UJ.
>>
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>
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Flannery O'Connor

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Peter Morgano]

Unfortunately everyone cant own a Rivendell, it is a bit of a luxury item
but one that is beautiful and functional. So unlike a set of earrings or a
new watch you can actually do something with a 2k Rivendell. This new
project will at least lower that cost restriction but it will still be
"insane" for the Xmart crowd and those who get 30 year old racing bikes for
200 bucks off of CL but if does help to bring them into the fold.  Looking
at the site they have a complete Simpleone for $1,400 which they said is
about thier target on this new bike. I suppose if you used cheaper tubing
and did a solid color powdercoat you could get some microshift stuff on
there for around the same price point.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Beth H  wrote:

> On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:00:45 PM UTC-7, Manuel Acosta wrote:
>>
>> Beater Rivendell?  I thought all Rivendells are suppose to be ridden to
>> the ground?
>>
>>
> Well, yeah. Which is why some aspects of this development make me scratch
> my head.
>
> "Cheap"? $1,400 ain't cheap if you're an hourly-wage worker. It isn't even
> "affordable". Perhaps find a different word.
> "Value-packed", maybe.
>
> My shop does this with Surly Big Dummy frames. We build them up with a
> smart combination of new and used parts to keep the total price under
> $2,000. This is how you make bicycle transportation more affordable and
> more accessible.
>
> While I applaud RBW's stance on avoiding stuff made in China, I predict
> that this will become harder and harder to do -- and in a relatively short
> time. And when that happens, further developments at RBW will be
> interesting to watch.
>
> Off to ride my BGR (Beautiful Green Riv) -- further into the ground.
>
> Cheers --Beth
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/JtO_wsfK12UJ.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Peter Pesce]

I agree with Jim that a lot of the year is in prototyping. Especially if Grant 
is working with tubes and/or lugs he's not so accustomed to, he'll want to 
build up a couple and make sure they are still Rivs. The last thing he needs is 
to have a bike out there that doesn't live up to the name, no matter what 
price. 

There may certainly be a trip or two to Taiwan in there. And I recall a couple 
of stories where even after all the drawings and meetings and whatnot a 
prototype shows up that's still not right. Best to manage our expectations and 
say a year. 

- Pete in CT

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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-07-03 at 23:51 -0700, pb wrote:
> 
> Ah, I don't think it would take $20,000,000 to bring a bike to
> market.  I suspect that manufacturers in Taiwan are much more nimble
> than that, and I suspect that parts manufacturers will be happy to
> make sales.

The Kogswell P/R came to market, and that was one guy working out of his
home.  I can't imagine he had somehow managed to accumulate twenty
million dollars (even if he'd spent his time sticking up banks or
selling crack!) before he got that project off the ground.



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Re: [RBW] Re: The New Riv

[Cyclofiend]

On Jul 3, 2012, at 11:51 PM, pb wrote:


Riv has had historic alliances with Merry Sales (if I recall correctly
-- weren't they the folks who distributed the Bleriot?  Or was it
QBP?), as well as with Soma.  Any of those could be very helpful in
lining up suppliers and supplies.


QBP handled the Bleriot project.

Merry is the import/wholesale company behind SOMA.

I expect also that the Hillborne, Foy/Gomez, SimpLeone projects all  
developed relationships in Taiwan.


All of which combines to help them work this.  You have to find  
someone who will deliver what you spec, work with you to get it where  
it has to be on time, etc.  These are never trivial negotiations.


Plus I would expect a few prototype sample bikes would be delivered,  
tested and refined. Grant and company won't let a bike show up that  
doesn't ride like a Rivendell.   It certainly isn't just about making  
a bicycle frame with lugs.


I just think it's cool that they've shared that info with us.

- Jim / cyclofiend.com

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