Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
John Romero wrote: I worked on it with my friend Lane Roathe. Lane did the 256-byte RWTS routine (the low-level) and I did the high-level code that supported the disk structure and API. There's an easter egg in there too. :) Here's a link to it: http://hometown.aol.com/graemecree/infobugs/infonote.htm OT: This document is full of cool info, but he's blatantly wrong on Amnesia. Here's a copy of the letter I wrote him: ---quote begin--- In your excellent Infonotes document, you write that you can't believe that Amnesia required you to reboot the machine to exit the game. I can't believe it either, because what you were playing was a pirated version converted to DOS. It never existed commercially in that form. The original game is bootable, meaning it had a custom OS and booted directly from the floppy disk. While rare for the IBM PC, over 100 of these PC bootable disks were created during the first decade of the IBM PC's life. You can get a list of all the PC bootable games we have documented at MobyGames here: http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/a,4/?o=a1 If you'd like to verify my information, check out the rap sheet on Amnesia here: http://www.mobygames.com/game/sheet/p,4/gameId,1775/ Specifically, check out the diskette label here: http://www.mobygames.com/game/covers/gameCoverId,14584/gameId,1775/ which clearly says IBM PC/XT/etc. and boot this side. So now that you know it's bootable, the request to reboot the machine to exit the game is no more unreasonable than bootable games on other platforms. So could you be fair to the poor, always-picked-on-as-a-gaming-platform IBM PC and adjust your note about Amnesia? I don't think it should be judged on the converted pirated copy you got a hold of :-) quote end -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
A few questions about InfoDOS... - I'm assuming it was written from scratch. What did it have that DOS/ProDOS didn't? Smaller footprint, faster, no Apple royalties :)? - How long did it take to write? - Last, were you pretty much on your own writing it (here's a buncha requirements, get us something in X weeks) or more interactive? The company I work for is big on processes (more than I'd prefer at times). You can't change a 3 to a 4 for a bug fix without notifying 10 people and spending an hour filling out forms. Sigh. On Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 01:54 AM, John Romero wrote: Ah, my fault. I forgot some of my Apple ][ history. I had forgotten how easy it for people to write their own OSes for the A2. Did you do anything different for the IIGS or was InfoDOS just targeted to the II+/e/c Apples? I never worked with the IIGS so I'm curious if much game development was done for or on the IIGS itself. I never did any //gs games...neither did many other people as the Apple II had started to wane in 1986... So, InfoDOS was really only for the II+/e/c series. - John -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Greetings
- I'm assuming it was written from scratch. What did it have that DOS/ProDOS didn't? Smaller footprint, faster, no Apple royalties :)? Yeah, it was VERY small - that was the major requirement. It took up $D000-$D3FF, which is 1k. I gave it a ProDOS-like API so it was easy to use, but it was a very limited API because the memory was limited. I had pathnames, file open, read, write, close, etc. though. - How long did it take to write? It took 2 weeks to write. :) - Last, were you pretty much on your own writing it (here's a buncha requirements, get us something in X weeks) or more interactive? I worked on it with my friend Lane Roathe. Lane did the 256-byte RWTS routine (the low-level) and I did the high-level code that supported the disk structure and API. There's an easter egg in there too. :) Here's a link to it: http://hometown.aol.com/graemecree/infobugs/infonote.htm Just doing a Google of: infodos romero will get you there. - John -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Greetings
Ah, my fault. I forgot some of my Apple ][ history. I had forgotten how easy it for people to write their own OSes for the A2. Did you do anything different for the IIGS or was InfoDOS just targeted to the II+/e/c Apples? I never worked with the IIGS so I'm curious if much game development was done for or on the IIGS itself. I never did any //gs games...neither did many other people as the Apple II had started to wane in 1986... So, InfoDOS was really only for the II+/e/c series. - John -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Friday, February 7, 2003, at 01:41 AM, John Romero wrote: Speaking of Zork, y'all might not care (or you might think it's neat), but I co-created Infocom's InfoDOS that was the OS for Zork Zero, Arthur 2 other Infocom titles. Back in the 80's. :O I love the old Infocom games. Zork is one of my favorite series and I was glad to see the games were available on the Apple II to the very end. Was it difficult to fit that version of the ZCode interpreter onto an Apple II? Did you have to make any compromises from the other versions? How was it working with Infocom (Activision?) at that time? On an unrelated note, there's something I'm curious about. I remember reading in an old issue of CGW that when you guys came to name Wolf3D you did a search for the then-current owner of Silas Marner's Castle Wolfenstein. CGW claimed that the copyright had somehow lapsed in the many changes of hands CW went through (someone was supposedly still selling copies from their garage). Is that story true or did you just buy the existing CW copyright? -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Friday, February 7, 2003, at 07:15 PM, John Romero wrote: [Snip] The ZCode stuff was external to the OS - I just did the OS part. Ah, my fault. I forgot some of my Apple ][ history. I had forgotten how easy it for people to write their own OSes for the A2. Did you do anything different for the IIGS or was InfoDOS just targeted to the II+/e/c Apples? I never worked with the IIGS so I'm curious if much game development was done for or on the IIGS itself. [Snip] Wolf3D-wise, yes the copyright had lapsed on Castle Wolfenstein. Muse Software went out of business in 1985 so seven years later when we were looking for the owner of the copyright it ended up that someone bought their inventory and was selling that from their house, but didn't keep up any of the copyrights so we just registered it and got it. Thanks for the info. Given the current climate of hanging onto any and all intellectual property I just wondered if the CGW story was accurate. -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Greetings
Speaking of Zork, y'all might not care (or you might think it's neat), but I co-created Infocom's InfoDOS that was the OS for Zork Zero, Arthur 2 other Infocom titles. Back in the 80's. :O - John -Original Message- From: Feldhamer, Stuart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:37 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Greetings Why do I have a feeling that if this hobby ever goes the way of other ones, with a price guide and stuff like that, my collection is going to be worth nothing? (Let's see, a NM Zork Trilogy is worth $500, but a F Zork Trilogy is $5. Too bad.) Stuart -Original Message- From: C.E. Forman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings I'd downgrade to Fine myself, but that's just me. If I see NM (S) anywhere I will know what it means. - Original Message - From: Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Jim Leonard stated: I agree that NM (S) is possible if there is one extremely minor defect, but the box is still sealed. I will modify the main page at mobygames to reflect this if there are none opposed. Anyone? Just try to spell out what extremely minor means. What are people's beliefs regarding Near Mint. Do you think if it has any defect whatsoever (e.g. bent corner), it's downgraded to Fine? Do you think if it (part of the contents) looks like it did when it came out of the package, it's Near Mint, despite any minor dings that occurred during shipping? I suspect I was very strict in my recent auctions and listed things as Fine others might have said were Near Mint. I'd rather be accused of being overly strict than overly lax. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale. CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such. Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in any client accounts (i) will not be insured by the FDIC, (ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, (iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and (iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal in! vested. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail- [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Alexander Zoller wrote: Jim, how many people have subscribed to the list so far? I'm curious if there are a lot of lurkers :) Over 30 and under 40. Can't give exact numbers because I'm on the train right now and can't check it :-) -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Hugh Falk wrote: Where the conditions are listed, it clearly states that NM is no defects, no wrap, but you mentioned that NM can have the modifier of (S)? I certainly understand the need for NM (S), but perhaps you should modify that page a bit to clear things up? Good point. Anyone else? Jim? I agree that NM (S) is possible if there is one extremely minor defect, but the box is still sealed. I will modify the main page at mobygames to reflect this if there are none opposed. Anyone? -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
CcomputerGameCollector wrote: I figured I'd take a look around the web for a type of clear plastic case (kind of like an oversized VHS case or something like that) that would fit most computer games, and buy a bunch bulk, and start putting all of my collection in them. It seemed like a good idea. However, after searching all corners of the net I've came up completely empty. I must have seen every plastic case imaginable except one that would suite the task of housing a computer game. Has anyone thought about this, or come across a place that sells a plastic box of sorts that would serve this purpose? I'm figuring an 8x10x1.5 would fit most games barring a few. Has this issue been revisited for newer small boxes? (SmallBoxes? :-) BTW, I will never get used to the current crop of DVD-style boxes. Small boxes were one thing for euro software, but the current crop of we need more space on the shelves for console games small boxes still brings a tear to my eye. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
C.E. Forman wrote: I would request that we not expand the Mobyscale. It was designed to be flexible so individual collectors can tailor it to their individual needs. I concur. Verbiage and examples I have no problem modifying, but the main grades and concepts are very solid. However, as this is obviously a reply to an old message, and I fear I don't have time to examine in detail every message on this subject, could someone let me know if any major decisions were made during this topic to have things added to the MobyScale? -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Jim Leonard stated: I agree that NM (S) is possible if there is one extremely minor defect, but the box is still sealed. I will modify the main page at mobygames to reflect this if there are none opposed. Anyone? Just try to spell out what extremely minor means. What are people's beliefs regarding Near Mint. Do you think if it has any defect whatsoever (e.g. bent corner), it's downgraded to Fine? Do you think if it (part of the contents) looks like it did when it came out of the package, it's Near Mint, despite any minor dings that occurred during shipping? I suspect I was very strict in my recent auctions and listed things as Fine others might have said were Near Mint. I'd rather be accused of being overly strict than overly lax. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
I'd downgrade to Fine myself, but that's just me. If I see NM (S) anywhere I will know what it means. - Original Message - From: Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Jim Leonard stated: I agree that NM (S) is possible if there is one extremely minor defect, but the box is still sealed. I will modify the main page at mobygames to reflect this if there are none opposed. Anyone? Just try to spell out what extremely minor means. What are people's beliefs regarding Near Mint. Do you think if it has any defect whatsoever (e.g. bent corner), it's downgraded to Fine? Do you think if it (part of the contents) looks like it did when it came out of the package, it's Near Mint, despite any minor dings that occurred during shipping? I suspect I was very strict in my recent auctions and listed things as Fine others might have said were Near Mint. I'd rather be accused of being overly strict than overly lax. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Greetings
Why do I have a feeling that if this hobby ever goes the way of other ones, with a price guide and stuff like that, my collection is going to be worth nothing? (Let's see, a NM Zork Trilogy is worth $500, but a F Zork Trilogy is $5. Too bad.) Stuart -Original Message- From: C.E. Forman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings I'd downgrade to Fine myself, but that's just me. If I see NM (S) anywhere I will know what it means. - Original Message - From: Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Jim Leonard stated: I agree that NM (S) is possible if there is one extremely minor defect, but the box is still sealed. I will modify the main page at mobygames to reflect this if there are none opposed. Anyone? Just try to spell out what extremely minor means. What are people's beliefs regarding Near Mint. Do you think if it has any defect whatsoever (e.g. bent corner), it's downgraded to Fine? Do you think if it (part of the contents) looks like it did when it came out of the package, it's Near Mint, despite any minor dings that occurred during shipping? I suspect I was very strict in my recent auctions and listed things as Fine others might have said were Near Mint. I'd rather be accused of being overly strict than overly lax. -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ Information in this message reflects current market conditions and is subject to change without notice. It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. Details provided do not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to prior sale. CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, may have a position in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment banker or advisor to such. Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC), it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products recommended, purchased, or sold in any client accounts (i) will not be insured by the FDIC, (ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, (iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and (iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal in! vested. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings from The Origin Museum
Heah Joe, nice to have you on board :) Perhaps you remember me, Marco from infocom-if.org. You were one of the first people that ever visited my site. Marco Origin Museum schrieb: I was told about this board some time ago, but I finally got the time to join--YAY! I know most of the people here, but for those who don't remember me, I'm Joe Garrity, and I (along with my wife, Paula) run a website called The Origin Museum. We specialise in old computer games and artifacts from Origin. Our domain name was hijacked a few days ago (while I was on vacation), but we're still available thru this link: http://originmuseum.solsector.net Almost all of the people that I see on this board have been incredibly nice to us in the past, and I'd like to take this time to personally thank them for all the help, conversations, and fun that you've given Paula and me. Thanks for letting us contribute to the board, and we hope to hear from you very soon! -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect;oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 03:15 AM, Pedro Quaresma wrote: [Snip] I'm sorry to hear about your wife. I hope you two find the miracle you seek. Thank you. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 02:33 PM, Marco Thorek wrote: [Snip] I am a bit late about it, but all the best to your wife, Ed! Thank you very much. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect;oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Edward Franks schrieb: On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 06:58 AM, C.E. Forman wrote: Sure, it'd be great to have someone in the industry who's also a serious collector. I'll second that. In my (limited) dealings with John I've always had a pleasant experience with him. Very well. I cordially invited John to the list. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect;oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Edward Franks schrieb: Thank you. Both my wife and I have been touched by everyone's support. It is a big boost to us to see all the support from our fellow collectors despite any past clashes. Helping other enthusiasts is what got both of us into collecting and trading the old games in the first place. I am a bit late about it, but all the best to your wife, Ed! Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect;oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Sorry to here that bro. A group of fund-type auctions were surely help. I'm sure. As far as promoting, there are many ways. Eli Thomlinson would gladly put a link on his page, I would put one on CGC, as I'm sure just about anyone else you contact would. Ditto YOIS, just let me know what your plans are when you decide. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
The late George Alec? When did he die? What a bummer -- I would have helped him had I known. I loved his work, especially his Budayeen series. No wonder I never found any new releases from him during every visit to a BN or Borders. Do you recall his e-mail address? Was it [EMAIL PROTECTED] or something similar? C.E. Forman wrote: I am, unfortunately, in the position of looking at some serious medical bills. At this point if I could sell Drash for enough to make a dent in those bills I would (it wouldn't be worth it for any thing less -- I have enough minor stuff I can sell/auction off). Aw man, sorry to hear that, Fortran. Nothing terminal, I hope. I agree with Alexander's advice. Sell your lesser stuff first if you have to. You can always find another big-box Ultima II, but that Drash is pretty irreplaceable. If you're auctioning stuff, let the other Dragons know, and mention in your listings that it's for medical expenses: You might be surprised by how generous people are. I remember when (the late) George Alec Effinger when auctioning stuff to pay for his hospital bills, the fans really came out to help him. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 08:57 PM, C.E. Forman wrote: [Snip] Definitely a good one, in the sense that you'd be sparing the winner from being harrassed with requests for image copies. But do offer to e-mail an HTML version of the final auction page after close (with the winning bidder's info edited out of course) so people can at least check on the other bidders and get assurance that you're not using shilling to drive the price up. (Then again, you have a good rep as one of the Dragons, hopefully this wouldn't be necessary. But it never hurts to be proactive and assure your public.) Hmm. I'm not sure about that. Letting everyone know who bid, except for the winning bidder seems to me to be killing the idea of a private auction. Maybe if I gave the list to the winning bidder since they are the one who would be most vulnerable to shills. I'll need to ponder your idea for a bit from the perspective of a buyer. [Snip] Talk to Eli Tomlinson. He seems to have done a good job of promoting his quarter-million games auction. (Even though it didn't sell, it sure got a lot of attention.) Thanks. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 09:08 PM, Lee K. Seitz wrote: [Snip] I'm very sorry to hear about that. Makes my continuing unemployment seem trivial in comparison. I wish you both the best in getting through it. I guess I shouldn't tell you how long I've been out of work. I think my life has decided to give me a annus horribllus instead of the usual mid-life crisis. ;-) Thanks of the kind thoughts. It is much appreciated. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 06:12 AM, CcomputerGameCollector wrote: [Snip] Sorry to here that bro. A group of fund-type auctions were surely help. I'm sure. As far as promoting, there are many ways. Eli Thomlinson would gladly put a link on his page, I would put one on CGC, as I'm sure just about anyone else you contact would. One of my problems is that a fair number of the more valuable games my wife and I have are ones we gave each other. (It was through trying to help people find Ultima games that we first started talking with each other.) So a number of things we might sell have a sentimental value. On the pragmatic hand, given the economy, people just aren't paying the prices they used to for most of the stuff we collected (Ultima, Infocom). Infocom folios, for example, just aren't fetching what they used to and Origin seems to have done an excellent job of killing the Ultimas. :-( All of this is a long-winded way of saying I think you have an excellent idea, but I'll have to figure out which games I have that would work well with your idea. Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 06:57 AM, C.E. Forman wrote: [Snip] Ditto YOIS, just let me know what your plans are when you decide. Thank you. Both my wife and I have been touched by everyone's support. It is a big boost to us to see all the support from our fellow collectors despite any past clashes. Helping other enthusiasts is what got both of us into collecting and trading the old games in the first place. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 06:58 AM, C.E. Forman wrote: If it's ok with you guys I'll try to contact him and invite him to the list. Sure, it'd be great to have someone in the industry who's also a serious collector. I'll second that. In my (limited) dealings with John I've always had a pleasant experience with him. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Hey, I'm in the industry, too! Okay, so he might have more press releases with his name on it, but does he have a completely amateurish site dedicated to game collecting? I didnt think so! :-) Hugh On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:58:15 -0500 C.E. Forman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it's ok with you guys I'll try to contact him and invite him to the list. Sure, it'd be great to have someone in the industry who's also a serious collector. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
The late George Alec? When did he die? What a bummer -- I would have helped him had I known. I loved his work, especially his Budayeen series. No wonder I never found any new releases from him during every visit to a BN or Borders. April 27th, this year, from a heart attack. He was actually working on the fourth Budayeen novel. He'd had medical problems for years (recurring terminal cancer), and emotional issues from his estranged family and the murder of a couple of close friends when he lived in New Orleans. (When Gravity Fails was actually based on the first of these.) He hit rock bottom for awhile and started turning his life back around, and then this happened. Do you recall his e-mail address? Was it [EMAIL PROTECTED] or something similar? It was for awhile, yeah. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Sunday, October 6, 2002, at 08:07 AM, Alexander Zoller wrote: [Snip] It's obviously futile to debate the value of this game. I'd call it a safe bet though it would fetch a princely sum on eBay. Personally I wouldn't hesitate to put down serious money myself, I'm actually keeping some substantial funds aside for the day a Drash should come along. I am, unfortunately, in the position of looking at some serious medical bills. At this point if I could sell Drash for enough to make a dent in those bills I would (it wouldn't be worth it for any thing less -- I have enough minor stuff I can sell/auction off). -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
That's a delicate situation. I'd highly recommend to sell some of your lesser items before you part with a prize collectible. Always a bad idea to let go off a conversation piece for quick cash. Since I don't have the money right now (moving to a new appartment) I couldn't make an offer in the 'serious' region anyway. Perhaps you want to list it on eBay with a ridiculous reserve, just to see how much it's worth to certain folks. Would be the first Drash on eBay, too. /Alexander -Original Message- From: Edward Franks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings On Sunday, October 6, 2002, at 08:07 AM, Alexander Zoller wrote: [Snip] It's obviously futile to debate the value of this game. I'd call it a safe bet though it would fetch a princely sum on eBay. Personally I wouldn't hesitate to put down serious money myself, I'm actually keeping some substantial funds aside for the day a Drash should come along. I am, unfortunately, in the position of looking at some serious medical bills. At this point if I could sell Drash for enough to make a dent in those bills I would (it wouldn't be worth it for any thing less -- I have enough minor stuff I can sell/auction off). -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
I am, unfortunately, in the position of looking at some serious medical bills. At this point if I could sell Drash for enough to make a dent in those bills I would (it wouldn't be worth it for any thing less -- I have enough minor stuff I can sell/auction off). Aw man, sorry to hear that, Fortran. Nothing terminal, I hope. I agree with Alexander's advice. Sell your lesser stuff first if you have to. You can always find another big-box Ultima II, but that Drash is pretty irreplaceable. If you're auctioning stuff, let the other Dragons know, and mention in your listings that it's for medical expenses: You might be surprised by how generous people are. I remember when (the late) George Alec Effinger when auctioning stuff to pay for his hospital bills, the fans really came out to help him. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 05:42 PM, C.E. Forman wrote: I am, unfortunately, in the position of looking at some serious medical bills. At this point if I could sell Drash for enough to make a dent in those bills I would (it wouldn't be worth it for any thing less -- I have enough minor stuff I can sell/auction off). Aw man, sorry to hear that, Fortran. Nothing terminal, I hope. Nothing less than something terminal would get me to part with Drash. ;-) Seriously, my wife has been diagnosed with stage IV lung cancer. Barring a miracle, the lung cancer is basically incurable. I feel awkward bringing it up, but I'm interested in getting all the advice I can about selling Drash. I agree with Alexander's advice. Sell your lesser stuff first if you have to. You can always find another big-box Ultima II, but that Drash is pretty irreplaceable. If you're auctioning stuff, let the other Dragons know, and mention in your listings that it's for medical expenses: You might be surprised by how generous people are. I remember when (the late) George Alec Effinger when auctioning stuff to pay for his hospital bills, the fans really came out to help him. I've thought about running a reserve price auction on Drash. I know as a buyer reserves are annoying, but if I can't reach my reserve it wouldn't be worth selling the game. I've also thought about making the auction 'private' in the sense you wouldn't know who would be bidding on the game. Do you all think that this would be a good idea or a bad one? I thought about posting the auction and the whys of the auction to the appropriate newsgroups. I could also email some collectors/Ultima people such as John Romero or even Richard Garriott himself. If I do this I would want to make a real production of it (for obvious reasons). Any suggestions are welcome. :) -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Edward Franks spake thusly into the ether: Seriously, my wife has been diagnosed with stage IV lung cancer. Barring a miracle, the lung cancer is basically incurable. I feel awkward bringing it up, but I'm interested in getting all the advice I can about selling Drash. I'm very sorry to hear about that. Makes my continuing unemployment seem trivial in comparison. I wish you both the best in getting through it. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Edward Franks schrieb: I've always wondered what John Romero would pay for one (assuming he doesn't have one already). :) He's a big time Ultima and Apple ][ fan. I think he would be a great member of this list if he isn't already. A while ago I started to receive a good number of hits from www.johnromero.com and checking there saw he had linked to me, mentioning Infocom in a tidbit how he and Lane Roathe did some contract work for them in the late 80s. I contacted him about it and we had a quick email exchange. He didn't really answer my question on what exactly the work done for Infocom was, but from what he wrote on his homepage I guess he and Lane did the Apple II Z-Machine conversions for Z-Code 6 games. If it's ok with you guys I'll try to contact him and invite him to the list. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Hey all, Just and update on CGC; I've pretty much completed the collection importer, but I've decided to hold off on making it public. The masterlist simply is not expansive enough for it to be effective. So, I'm just concentrating on building the masterlist, and when I feel it's large enough to make the importer effective, I will make it available at that point. Building the masterlist by hand is something of a task (to say the least). Alot of games have multiple box designs, so finding scans maker/year information can be time consuming. For instance, there are 32 entries for Scott Adams Classic Adventures, because Adventureland had at least 4 differing box types, 3 for Voodoo Castle, etc. You get he picture. The list has nearly 700 entries as of today. One of my personal goals for doing this is to learn everything I can about the history of computer gaming; and I've already learned boat loads as a result! I'm determined to add to the list maticulously, even it takes a very long time. I think the end result will be worth it. - I'm adding games to the best of my ability with the information available to me (the internet). Of course, something might be inaccurate, such as a year, or missing box design, so if you see anything inaccurate, please, let me know with corrective information. - Also if you have box scans of any games that don't currently have box scans, email those too. Front, and back (optional). - Lastly, if you want to help; If you have an expertise in a particular company, game, genre etc and are confident you can help the list grow responsibly and accurately, drop me a line and I can give you permissions to add to the masterlist on the website. Thanks for reading, Brad http://www.computergamecollector.com -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Good point about (S) (T). I agree it's redundant. (T) alone works. What about (C)? The original reason that we had (C) was for a game that was sealed, but had become compressed due to the air getting sucked out of the shrink. However, the current wording for MobyScale could also use (C) for any crushed box -- sealed or not. Should (C) be used in place of (S), or should it be used for any crushed box? Hmm, I must have missed this part of the discussion. The wording on Jim's page says C = crushed so that's how I've been using it. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
I also think NM (S) is still valid. What if you have a defect on the shrink other than a tear (like writing)? I wouldn't call it MS. Ah, good point. NM (S) could indeed apply if there's a defect on the wrap, but not the game package. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Why was it designed to be flexible so individual collectors could tailor it to individual needs? I might be mistaken, but wasn't the scale designed to be universal? Being able to tailor anything universal creates confusion, no? Because different collectors have slightly different needs. The ratings all mean the same thing (i.e. they are universal) but how people employ them can very slightly, as we've seen in this discussion. Really? would it be that hard? What type of datafield(s) are you using for the mobyscale condition? Enum for the conditions, set for the modifiers. It's not that it'd be that hard, it's just that it'd take a lot of time to recode, TEST, etc., time I don't have at the moment. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Because different collectors have slightly different needs. The ratings all mean the same thing (i.e. they are universal) but how people employ them can very slightly, as we've seen in this discussion. Yea I understand. I guess I misinterpreted the reasoning behind inventing the Mobyscale. My understanding was that it was created to fill all needs for classifying games so there would be no need for people to adjust the scale individually. - Original Message - From: C.E. Forman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Why was it designed to be flexible so individual collectors could tailor it to individual needs? I might be mistaken, but wasn't the scale designed to be universal? Being able to tailor anything universal creates confusion, no? Because different collectors have slightly different needs. The ratings all mean the same thing (i.e. they are universal) but how people employ them can very slightly, as we've seen in this discussion. Really? would it be that hard? What type of datafield(s) are you using for the mobyscale condition? Enum for the conditions, set for the modifiers. It's not that it'd be that hard, it's just that it'd take a lot of time to recode, TEST, etc., time I don't have at the moment. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Well, I'm all for having a standard usage for the scale, which would be how 90% of everyone should use it. Of course people can deviate, but that is their choice, and hopefully they would call attention to it and reasons why on their site. I think I could conform my collection to any scale, and just put specifics in the notes. Jim, you haven't weighed in on any of these discussions yet. Are you around? Since, Jim is the keeper of the scale, we won't get very far without his input. Hugh On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:52:08 -0400 CcomputerGameCollector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because different collectors have slightly different needs. The ratings all mean the same thing (i.e. they are universal) but how people employ them can very slightly, as we've seen in this discussion. Yea I understand. I guess I misinterpreted the reasoning behind inventing the Mobyscale. My understanding was that it was created to fill all needs for classifying games so there would be no need for people to adjust the scale individually. - Original Message - From: C.E. Forman To: Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Why was it designed to be flexible so individual collectors could tailor it to individual needs? I might be mistaken, but wasn't the scale designed to be universal? Being able to tailor anything universal creates confusion, no? Because different collectors have slightly different needs. The ratings all mean the same thing (i.e. they are universal) but how people employ them can very slightly, as we've seen in this discussion. Really? would it be that hard? What type of datafield(s) are you using for the mobyscale condition? Enum for the conditions, set for the modifiers. It's not that it'd be that hard, it's just that it'd take a lot of time to recode, TEST, etc., time I don't have at the moment. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
IM modifier: if the box is missing you obviously can't grade its condition, so ED would be misleading just like you said. Perhaps IM should represent a modifier _and_ condition, at least as far as the packaging is concerned. If you only have the floppy in flawless shape the correct grading should be IM/NM(IM,MMC). Of course this still doesn't indicate it's just the floppy unless you add a short description. It might make more sense to create a new condition for just the software, to avoid this lengthy construction. /Alexander -Original Message- From: Hugh Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 8:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Greetings Hey guys, Brad and I have been working on this import feature for his site, and one of the things that is coming out of it is a list of every possible combination of condition and modifier. And, wow, there are a lot! While editing the list a couple of issues came up that I would like your opinions on. Pleae see below and weigh in. Thanks One thing that might make the list shorter...I've never used IM and MMC modifiers for the same game. Although this certainly could be the case for a single gamefor example, it could be missing the manual (IM) and the warranty card (MMC). However, I think the spirit of these two modifiers is that MMC isn't necessary if IM is already used. MMC is used when you just want to note that something very minor is missing (so it would let a potential buyer/trader know it isn't QUITE complete). Where as IM is obviously worse and would imply potentially many items missing (including minor items). In either case, all missing items should be described in the notes. I will put this one by the group to see what they say on the subject. Another issue. I may have been doing this wrong, but again I'll pose it to the group. When all I have is the floppy disk (and everything else is missing) I put IM/IM (meaning that the box is missing and part of the contents are missing). Then I put floppy only in the notes. Maybe I should use ED/ED (IM)instead of IM/IM, but that is misleading I think. Why do I say IM/IM might be wrong? Well IM is a modifier and not actually a condition and therefore shouldn't stand on it's own. Thoughts? Hugh -Original Message- From: CcomputerGameCollector [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 10:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Where the conditions are listed, it clearly states that NM is no defects, no wrap, but you mentioned that NM can have the modifier of (S)? I certainly understand the need for NM (S), but perhaps you should modify that page a bit to clear things up? Brad - Original Message - From: Hugh Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 1:36 AM Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Greetings We were working under the premise that no opened game truly mint. Mint is too often used and abused by sellers, and different people have different levels of detail when determining mint status. Therefore, if it has ever been opened, NM is the best it gets. NM (S) is also possible if there is one extremely minor defect, but the box is still sealed. NM (S)(T) is also common for a game that simply has a tear in the shrinkwrap but is otherwise new looking. Hugh -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
IM modifier: if the box is missing you obviously can't grade its condition, so ED would be misleading just like you said. Perhaps IM should represent a modifier _and_ condition, at least as far as the packaging is concerned. If you only have the floppy in flawless shape the correct grading should be IM/NM(IM,MMC). Of course this still doesn't indicate it's just the floppy unless you add a short description. It might make more sense to create a new condition for just the software, to avoid this lengthy construction. /Alexander Agreed, a simple MO for Media Only would clear this all up. Brad -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
At first I agreed that MO is a good idea, but it doesn't clear up the entire issue. What if you have a floppy and its disk sleeve? What if you have a floppy and manual only (but not the map). These would still be vaild uses of IM/IM, with a note as to what you have or what is missing. I still prefer this to MO. I like the first suggestion of allowing IM to be a condition, but this would require an update to MobyScale. IM would be a condition and (MMC) would be a modifier. So examples would be: IM/IM IM/VG (MMC) F/IM But you would never need: IM/IM (MMC) or F/IM (MMC). In other words, (MMC) should never be used in conjunction with an IM used to describe contents. Hugh On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 07:40:29 -0400 CcomputerGameCollector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IM modifier: if the box is missing you obviously can't grade its condition, so ED would be misleading just like you said. Perhaps IM should represent a modifier _and_ condition, at least as far as the packaging is concerned. If you only have the floppy in flawless shape the correct grading should be IM/NM(IM,MMC). Of course this still doesn't indicate it's just the floppy unless you add a short description. It might make more sense to create a new condition for just the software, to avoid this lengthy construction. /Alexander Agreed, a simple MO for Media Only would clear this all up. Brad -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Disk sleeves: I think the only workaround would be to add even more conditions and modifiers to the MobyScale. It's just too abridged to convey this kind of detail. Nothing can replace a short, insightful description. I could actually live with a MobyScale that is imperfect in this respect. It was tailored to accurately grade and describe packages that are more or less complete, not single materials. I agree that the MMC note is negligible in case important components are missing. I would leave it to the seller though if they want to include this or not. /Alexander -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 7:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings At first I agreed that MO is a good idea, but it doesn't clear up the entire issue. What if you have a floppy and its disk sleeve? What if you have a floppy and manual only (but not the map). These would still be vaild uses of IM/IM, with a note as to what you have or what is missing. I still prefer this to MO. I like the first suggestion of allowing IM to be a condition, but this would require an update to MobyScale. IM would be a condition and (MMC) would be a modifier. So examples would be: IM/IM IM/VG (MMC) F/IM But you would never need: IM/IM (MMC) or F/IM (MMC). In other words, (MMC) should never be used in conjunction with an IM used to describe contents. Hugh On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 07:40:29 -0400 CcomputerGameCollector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IM modifier: if the box is missing you obviously can't grade its condition, so ED would be misleading just like you said. Perhaps IM should represent a modifier _and_ condition, at least as far as the packaging is concerned. If you only have the floppy in flawless shape the correct grading should be IM/NM(IM,MMC). Of course this still doesn't indicate it's just the floppy unless you add a short description. It might make more sense to create a new condition for just the software, to avoid this lengthy construction. /Alexander Agreed, a simple MO for Media Only would clear this all up. Brad -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
One thing that might make the list shorter...I've never used IM and MMC modifiers for the same game I'm already set up to use both modifiers. It may be a bit superfluous, but I prefer it simply because it's more accurate at a glance. If you look at a modifier of IM your first thought would be it's missing at least one prop. But if you saw both IM and MMC, you'd immediately know it's missing both a prop *and* at least one minor item. On a similar topic, I notice in a previous message that you gave an example using NM (S)(T). Here I never include both modifiers, only the T. In this case the S is redundant, since you can't have torn wrap if you don't have wrap. Why do I say IM/IM might be wrong? Well IM is a modifier and not actually a condition and therefore shouldn't stand on it's own. Thoughts? When I have a single loose prop or disk (or a completely empty box), I grade it with only only one Mobyscore based on its condition. When I have multiple loose pieces from the same game, I Mobyscore the props together and use IM as the box score (and another IM as a modifier if it's not a complete set of loose props). To me, IM is a box rating or a modifier (or both), but never a props rating. I've never used NM (S), either. If it's mint and sealed it's MS. If it's sealed but with a minor defect it's F (S). The only sealed modifier I use with NM is T, for sealed but with torn wrap (so it can't be truly mint). As for disk sleeves, I treat them as a minor component, so MMC would apply if the sleeve is not the original. I would request that we not expand the Mobyscale. It was designed to be flexible so individual collectors can tailor it to their individual needs. For me, all possible conditions of an item can already be described using the current notations. Due to the time required to recode YOIS to accept new modifiers, I would not be implementing them. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Good point about (S) (T). I agree it's redundant. (T) alone works. What about (C)? The original reason that we had (C) was for a game that was sealed, but had become compressed due to the air getting sucked out of the shrink. However, the current wording for MobyScale could also use (C) for any crushed box -- sealed or not. Should (C) be used in place of (S), or should it be used for any crushed box? I think it should be used in place of (S). A crushed (not not sealed) box could simply be downgraded (for example -- ED). Hugh On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:30:07 -0500 C.E. Forman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing that might make the list shorter...I've never used IM and MMC modifiers for the same game I'm already set up to use both modifiers. It may be a bit superfluous, but I prefer it simply because it's more accurate at a glance. If you look at a modifier of IM your first thought would be it's missing at least one prop. But if you saw both IM and MMC, you'd immediately know it's missing both a prop *and* at least one minor item. On a similar topic, I notice in a previous message that you gave an example using NM (S)(T). Here I never include both modifiers, only the T. In this case the S is redundant, since you can't have torn wrap if you don't have wrap. Why do I say IM/IM might be wrong? Well IM is a modifier and not actually a condition and therefore shouldn't stand on it's own. Thoughts? When I have a single loose prop or disk (or a completely empty box), I grade it with only only one Mobyscore based on its condition. When I have multiple loose pieces from the same game, I Mobyscore the props together and use IM as the box score (and another IM as a modifier if it's not a complete set of loose props). To me, IM is a box rating or a modifier (or both), but never a props rating. I've never used NM (S), either. If it's mint and sealed it's MS. If it's sealed but with a minor defect it's F (S). The only sealed modifier I use with NM is T, for sealed but with torn wrap (so it can't be truly mint). As for disk sleeves, I treat them as a minor component, so MMC would apply if the sleeve is not the original. I would request that we not expand the Mobyscale. It was designed to be flexible so individual collectors can tailor it to their individual needs. For me, all possible conditions of an item can already be described using the current notations. Due to the time required to recode YOIS to accept new modifiers, I would not be implementing them. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Okay, so back to my original questions, what do you do if the box is missing and the map is missing, but you have the disk and manual? You say: When I have a single loose prop or disk (or a completely empty box), I grade it with only only one Mobyscore based on its condition. Can you give a specific example of how this works? If you use only one grade, how do you know at a glance if the box or the contents is the IM? I also think NM (S) is still valid. What if you have a defect on the shrink other than a tear (like writing)? I wouldn't call it MS. Hugh On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:30:07 -0500 C.E. Forman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing that might make the list shorter...I've never used IM and MMC modifiers for the same game I'm already set up to use both modifiers. It may be a bit superfluous, but I prefer it simply because it's more accurate at a glance. If you look at a modifier of IM your first thought would be it's missing at least one prop. But if you saw both IM and MMC, you'd immediately know it's missing both a prop *and* at least one minor item. On a similar topic, I notice in a previous message that you gave an example using NM (S)(T). Here I never include both modifiers, only the T. In this case the S is redundant, since you can't have torn wrap if you don't have wrap. Why do I say IM/IM might be wrong? Well IM is a modifier and not actually a condition and therefore shouldn't stand on it's own. Thoughts? When I have a single loose prop or disk (or a completely empty box), I grade it with only only one Mobyscore based on its condition. When I have multiple loose pieces from the same game, I Mobyscore the props together and use IM as the box score (and another IM as a modifier if it's not a complete set of loose props). To me, IM is a box rating or a modifier (or both), but never a props rating. I've never used NM (S), either. If it's mint and sealed it's MS. If it's sealed but with a minor defect it's F (S). The only sealed modifier I use with NM is T, for sealed but with torn wrap (so it can't be truly mint). As for disk sleeves, I treat them as a minor component, so MMC would apply if the sleeve is not the original. I would request that we not expand the Mobyscale. It was designed to be flexible so individual collectors can tailor it to their individual needs. For me, all possible conditions of an item can already be described using the current notations. Due to the time required to recode YOIS to accept new modifiers, I would not be implementing them. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
It would seem to me that while the mobyscale grades and modifiers were normalized, the usage of them was not. I do have a couple of questions though. I would request that we not expand the Mobyscale. It was designed to be flexible so individual collectors can tailor it to their individual needs. Why was it designed to be flexible so individual collectors could tailor it to individual needs? I might be mistaken, but wasn't the scale designed to be universal? Being able to tailor anything universal creates confusion, no? the current notations. Due to the time required to recode YOIS to accept new modifiers, I would not be implementing them. Really? would it be that hard? What type of datafield(s) are you using for the mobyscale condition? Brad - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Okay, so back to my original questions, what do you do if the box is missing and the map is missing, but you have the disk and manual? You say: When I have a single loose prop or disk (or a completely empty box), I grade it with only only one Mobyscore based on its condition. Can you give a specific example of how this works? If you use only one grade, how do you know at a glance if the box or the contents is the IM? I also think NM (S) is still valid. What if you have a defect on the shrink other than a tear (like writing)? I wouldn't call it MS. Hugh On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:30:07 -0500 C.E. Forman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing that might make the list shorter...I've never used IM and MMC modifiers for the same game I'm already set up to use both modifiers. It may be a bit superfluous, but I prefer it simply because it's more accurate at a glance. If you look at a modifier of IM your first thought would be it's missing at least one prop. But if you saw both IM and MMC, you'd immediately know it's missing both a prop *and* at least one minor item. On a similar topic, I notice in a previous message that you gave an example using NM (S)(T). Here I never include both modifiers, only the T. In this case the S is redundant, since you can't have torn wrap if you don't have wrap. Why do I say IM/IM might be wrong? Well IM is a modifier and not actually a condition and therefore shouldn't stand on it's own. Thoughts? When I have a single loose prop or disk (or a completely empty box), I grade it with only only one Mobyscore based on its condition. When I have multiple loose pieces from the same game, I Mobyscore the props together and use IM as the box score (and another IM as a modifier if it's not a complete set of loose props). To me, IM is a box rating or a modifier (or both), but never a props rating. I've never used NM (S), either. If it's mint and sealed it's MS. If it's sealed but with a minor defect it's F (S). The only sealed modifier I use with NM is T, for sealed but with torn wrap (so it can't be truly mint). As for disk sleeves, I treat them as a minor component, so MMC would apply if the sleeve is not the original. I would request that we not expand the Mobyscale. It was designed to be flexible so individual collectors can tailor it to their individual needs. For me, all possible conditions of an item can already be described using the current notations. Due to the time required to recode YOIS to accept new modifiers, I would not be implementing them. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
CcomputerGameCollector spake thusly into the ether: I figured I'd take a look around the web for a type of clear plastic case (kind of like an oversized VHS case or something like that) that would fit most computer games, and buy a bunch bulk, and start putting all of my collection in them. It seemed like a good idea. However, after searching all corners of the net I've came up completely empty. Maybe you could get your hands on the boxes I've seen Toys R Us use for security on new computer games. They're big (perhaps too big) and clear. I don't remember many other details. I don't recall if I've seen them since the new, smaller boxes have come in. -- Lee K. Seitz * [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Drash copies: IIRC Tom owns both a complete copy and some spare parts, but this may no longer be the case. Plus Keith Zabalaoui owns a complete one! It's obviously futile to debate the value of this game. I'd call it a safe bet though it would fetch a princely sum on eBay. Personally I wouldn't hesitate to put down serious money myself, I'm actually keeping some substantial funds aside for the day a Drash should come along. As for the Computerland Aks, I'm not so sure anymore if there really are more around than Drashs. Only if you count those Akalabeths assembled recently from parts, and their number will increase further as Richard is handing them out in exchange for small favors ;) In any case, Drash must be worth less than one of the Twelve Akalabeths, with just a few copies of both titles around it's the significance that counts, not their exact number. I'd say Akalabeth had a _slightly_ greater impact on the history of computer games. /Alexander -Original Message- From: Edward Franks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 2:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 03:12 PM, CcomputerGameCollector wrote: [Snip] With CGC, I don't plan on representing an exact value, which is why I use the range approach. (I.E. $20 - $40) And given human nature people will focus on the high end of your range. :-D After all, that means their game is worth more money. [Snip] Wether there is a price guide price or not, people have an idea about what a game is worth. For many games, yes. For some, no. For example, what is the worth of one of Richard Garriott's twelve Computerland Akalabeths? The sample size is just too small to determine a fair market value for one of them. It is too easy for someone to fall in love with the idea of owning one and paying 'whatever it takes' for someone to assign a reasonable value/worth to one. It gets even worse if a game hasn't been seen yet. Mr. Falk once stated in an article that Mt. Drash might be worth over $2,000 if one was found. He was only off by nearly an order of magnitude from what my only known complete copy was purchased for. ;-) I mean, just what *is* Mt. Drash worth? There is only one complete one and one partial one known (to me) to exist. There are more RG Computerland Akalabeths around than known Mt Drashs. Does this make Mt. Drash worth more than Akalabeth? And how would one determine the worth of my complete copy of an Apple II Personal Software Zork still in 95% shrinkwrap (only the top of the shrinkwrap/box is open)? Zork 1 is certainly a much more important and seminal game than Akalabeth! (I say that as a big time Ultima fan, by the way.) On the other hand, take a grey box Zork 1 with everything in good shape. There are enough of these around that one can look at the overall sales/auction prices and figure what, on average, it is worth. This is not to say a price guide is worthless. I think one would be doable for many games. My mine problem with them is educating potential buyers and sellers to all the caveats and assumptions behind the numbers. Too many people take any number they see written down as gospel. :sigh: In the comics world many people will check several different price guides and take the highest one they find. And this is after 20+ years of trying to educate the market. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
*stares* A decent price, really ;) I have a definite (and highly self-seeking) interest in playing down the value of Drash, because settling it in the $2000 area would put it out of reach (for the time being anyway). Nonetheless it's probably correct to say at least a half dozen collectors would consider paying several times the amount you offered. Btw, I believe that only a fraction of the Ultima collectors is actually regarding Drash as something special and ultra-collectible. To many, it's merely an obscure and poorly designed offshoot that can only claim Ultima fame and value by its title. /Alexander -Original Message- From: Edward Franks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 5:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 07:39 PM, Hugh Falk wrote: Do you mind giving a range for what you paid for Drash? :-) :chuckle: I paid exactly what I offered for three years in comp.sys.cbm. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
I remember the guy that runs the Origin Museum claiming that there are four of the original twelve currently known to exist. Since that is one of his specialties I see no reason to doubt him. I certainly don't mean to doubt this claim either, Joe Garrity is probably the most knowledgeable person on the subject. I've been talking to him several times but never got around to ask him about the Computerland Akalabeths, so I didn't know that he confirmed this many copies. My understanding has been that only one copy was verified to exist. Looks like research has since yielded a few more. I know that Byron Blystone has been launching an investigation into Akalabeth recently, and dug up some more details in the process. Joe and Byron are two more guys that really ought to be on this list! Jim, how many people have subscribed to the list so far? I'm curious if there are a lot of lurkers :) /Alexander -Original Message- From: Edward Franks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 5:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings On Sunday, October 6, 2002, at 08:07 AM, Alexander Zoller wrote: [Snip] It's obviously futile to debate the value of this game. I'd call it a safe bet though it would fetch a princely sum on eBay. Personally I wouldn't hesitate to put down serious money myself, I'm actually keeping some substantial funds aside for the day a Drash should come along. I've always wondered what John Romero would pay for one (assuming he doesn't have one already). :) He's a big time Ultima and Apple ][ fan. I think he would be a great member of this list if he isn't already. As for the Computerland Aks, I'm not so sure anymore if there really are more around than Drashs. Only if you count those Akalabeths assembled recently from parts, and their number will increase further as Richard is handing them out in exchange for small favors ;) I remember the guy that runs the Origin Museum claiming that there are four of the original twelve currently known to exist. Since that is one of his specialties I see no reason to doubt him. In any case, Drash must be worth less than one of the Twelve Akalabeths, with just a few copies of both titles around it's the significance that counts, not their exact number. I'd say Akalabeth had a _slightly_ greater impact on the history of computer games. No, if you said Ultima III or IV, I would agree with you. However, Akalabeth is only important in that it lead to Ultima. It was the Ultimas that everyone tried to imitate. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Greetings
We were working under the premise that no opened game truly mint. Mint is too often used and abused by sellers, and different people have different levels of detail when determining mint status. Therefore, if it has ever been opened, NM is the best it gets. NM (S) is also possible if there is one extremely minor defect, but the box is still sealed. NM (S)(T) is also common for a game that simply has a tear in the shrinkwrap but is otherwise new looking. Hugh -Original Message- From: CcomputerGameCollector [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 9:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Here's a question I've been meaning to ask: There is something about the mobyscale I noticed a while back, and I figured since I'm in touch with the people who made it, I should ask now. The grades MS and NM are confusing. By definition, MS stands for no defects in original factory shrinkwrap. NM stands for no defects, not sealed. My question is, why aren't the 2 grades simple M with the option of an S modifier (or M and NM, though not nec.)? The fact that those first 2 grades insinuate shrink or no shrink is redundent as far as the modifiers go, no? It's just something that has confused me about the mobyscale from the start. Brad -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Where the conditions are listed, it clearly states that NM is no defects, no wrap, but you mentioned that NM can have the modifier of (S)? I certainly understand the need for NM (S), but perhaps you should modify that page a bit to clear things up? Brad - Original Message - From: Hugh Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 1:36 AM Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Greetings We were working under the premise that no opened game truly mint. Mint is too often used and abused by sellers, and different people have different levels of detail when determining mint status. Therefore, if it has ever been opened, NM is the best it gets. NM (S) is also possible if there is one extremely minor defect, but the box is still sealed. NM (S)(T) is also common for a game that simply has a tear in the shrinkwrap but is otherwise new looking. Hugh -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Greetings
Hey guys, Brad and I have been working on this import feature for his site, and one of the things that is coming out of it is a list of every possible combination of condition and modifier. And, wow, there are a lot! While editing the list a couple of issues came up that I would like your opinions on. Pleae see below and weigh in. Thanks One thing that might make the list shorter...I've never used IM and MMC modifiers for the same game. Although this certainly could be the case for a single gamefor example, it could be missing the manual (IM) and the warranty card (MMC). However, I think the spirit of these two modifiers is that MMC isn't necessary if IM is already used. MMC is used when you just want to note that something very minor is missing (so it would let a potential buyer/trader know it isn't QUITE complete). Where as IM is obviously worse and would imply potentially many items missing (including minor items). In either case, all missing items should be described in the notes. I will put this one by the group to see what they say on the subject. Another issue. I may have been doing this wrong, but again I'll pose it to the group. When all I have is the floppy disk (and everything else is missing) I put IM/IM (meaning that the box is missing and part of the contents are missing). Then I put floppy only in the notes. Maybe I should use ED/ED (IM)instead of IM/IM, but that is misleading I think. Why do I say IM/IM might be wrong? Well IM is a modifier and not actually a condition and therefore shouldn't stand on it's own. Thoughts? Hugh -Original Message- From: CcomputerGameCollector [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 10:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Where the conditions are listed, it clearly states that NM is no defects, no wrap, but you mentioned that NM can have the modifier of (S)? I certainly understand the need for NM (S), but perhaps you should modify that page a bit to clear things up? Brad - Original Message - From: Hugh Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 1:36 AM Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Greetings We were working under the premise that no opened game truly mint. Mint is too often used and abused by sellers, and different people have different levels of detail when determining mint status. Therefore, if it has ever been opened, NM is the best it gets. NM (S) is also possible if there is one extremely minor defect, but the box is still sealed. NM (S)(T) is also common for a game that simply has a tear in the shrinkwrap but is otherwise new looking. Hugh -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
(Sorry I'm jumping in late here. Busy week, and I'm just getting caught up now.) Price guide: many of us are reluctant to work with fixed prices. It tends to take some of the fun out of collecting if everyone knows what they can expect for an item. Cruel as it may sound, I prefer to deal with the occasional uneducated buyer or seller at times :) That and bulk lots. With a price guide, someone can go through every game they have, add up the prices, and there's no shot at a bargain. (Worse, they'll pick the good stuff out and sell it separately.) I don't like to rip people off, but I do like to get bargains. If we reach a price where they're happy and I'm happy, that's great. A price guide would pull the two sides in different directions, making that difficult to achieve. Without doubt eBay has a very strong influence on the market and tends to set the values for high-profile items (examples being the Kilrathi Saga, The price on Kilrathi Saga never ceases to astound me. It seems they may finally be coming down, though. I think the last one went for $120. They were $200+ a couple of years ago. I just wouldn't define this as the 'real' value of an item. This is entirely dependent on the subjective judgement of every single collector. Agreed. eBay is so prone to flukes (two newbies bid a Microsoft Adventure up over $120) and misses (a game sells for far less than most people would offer because it's poorly described, or a clueless seller used a low BuyItNow) that I'm reluctant to use it as a price guide for anything outside of common items you see multiple copies of every week. Just a suggestion of course, and not even a very good one perhaps, as we would have to update the values in a regular fashion. And that's never fun. You have to follow the market and track supply and demand. Stuff depreciates too, when there's a lot of it being offered at once. One of the Software Reruns in Jim and Tom's area never gets around to lowering their prices and they don't sell much software as a result. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Definitely. The hobby is still in its infancy, by the number of active collectors at least. The more people are participating, the more serious this will become. We could get some actual media coverage, take to the expos, etc. I'm trying to get the CGE in Vegas to open up more to software collectors, maybe even take on a former Implementor as a guest speaker. It has one downside though - beginners will find it increasingly difficult to get started, as the initial investment may become a real problem for some. I'm mainly noticing this as an Ultima collector - the way certain titles have increased in value is quite intimidating for the newcomer. Yeah, especially with the Big Three: Ultima, Infocom and Sierra. The rare stuff, when you can even find it, is getting harder to acquire without laying out a huge block of cash. Fortunately the common stuff is starting to really emerge from the woodwork, making bargains possible. (Even more so if you don't care about platform.) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Around here, in Germany, it was 12-18 months ago. EA was the first to announce that cardboard boxes are outdated and subsequently published new games only in DVD cases. Others followed shortly after. I noticed this, when I was over in Germany in April. There was a store in France that had some older stuff in boxes (got two European variations of Zork Nemesis for $8 apiece), but all the new stuff was in DVD cases. The Simon the Sorcerer 3D I ordered from U.K. was the same way. Interestingly, although the manufacturing costs for manuals and packaging probably dropped considerably after this strategy, the prices for games stayed the same and with the introduction of the Euro even increased by roughly $5. That's the worst part of it. They decrease their costs but don't pass any savings on to us. (Same way movie theaters piss me off by showing 10 commercials before a flick while ticket prices remain constant.) God, I sound just like my dad. B-) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
What I think I'll eventually do for softwarecollecting.org is make it a portal of sorts, where a software collecting FAQ can exist, with pictures (explaining the different types of shrinkwrap, how to spot fakes, good shrinkwrap holes vs. bad ones, illustrated examples of the various grades of the MobyScale, etc.) I've got a sample FAQ we can build from. Started working on it when Sarinee (of Underdogs) and I were planning gameprops.com, a site that would list everything that's supposed to be in a particular game package, so you'd know for certain if yours was complete. It never got off the ground, though. Let me see if I can find it and I'll post it here, we can go from there. This should be a collaborative effort based on everyone's knowledge and experience of the hobby. Where do you house 600 games? Against a wall on bookshelves, although Hugh Falk has an awesome California Closets getup. Same here, $30 shelves you can buy at K-Mart. I have 5 right now, and they're starting to overflow. (1200+ items, but I collect box variations. See my page at http://www.yois.biz/vault for pics and a complete list.) Brad, you've got some nice pieces in your set. Lots of RPGs, reminds me of TomMage's. Lots of SSI, some Sierra, shrinked Castle Wolfenstein and Beyond...7 -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 01:10 PM, C.E. Forman wrote: [Snip] That's the worst part of it. They decrease their costs but don't pass any savings on to us. (Same way movie theaters piss me off by showing 10 commercials before a flick while ticket prices remain constant.) I imagine their development costs have sky-rocketed to the point that they are just breaking even or making a small increase in profit. An example: One of the reasons Origin was sold to EA is that the price to create an Ultima shot up tremendously, but the total sales of each Ultima had remained flat since Ultima III. In the decade since that happened the situation has gotten far worse. The then unimaginable $14 million costs of Wing Commander III look fairly reasonable these days. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
C.E. Forman wrote: Interestingly, although the manufacturing costs for manuals and packaging probably dropped considerably after this strategy, the prices for games stayed the same and with the introduction of the Euro even increased by roughly $5. That's the worst part of it. They decrease their costs but don't pass any savings on to us. (Same way movie theaters piss me off by showing 10 commercials before a flick while ticket prices remain constant.) Not entirely true: Virgin specifically said that *all* of their new games now cost exactly $19.99. Which is true... ..except that all of them really, really suck! They used the box switch as a ploy, IMO, to think the consumer was getting professional games at half the cost. The move to smallbox packaging saved companies about a buck, if that. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious PC games project? Drop by http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.demodvd.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 01:04 PM, C.E. Forman wrote: [Snip] That and bulk lots. With a price guide, someone can go through every game they have, add up the prices, and there's no shot at a bargain. (Worse, they'll pick the good stuff out and sell it separately.) I don't like to rip people off, but I do like to get bargains. If we reach a price where they're happy and I'm happy, that's great. A price guide would pull the two sides in different directions, making that difficult to achieve. The other difficulty with price guides is that they don't reflect regional (or national) variations in prices. One price does *not* fit all. Also, I would second your comments on buyers determining the values of their games. Most people look at the high end prices if there is a price guide and assume that is the going rate for whatever they have. They 'bond' with that price and tend to be unhappy if their stuff doesn't fetch that amount. If someone was going to keep a price guide I'd like to be able to see the data behind it. Knowing how many data points make up that price (and who the buyer was) is crucial. I personally wouldn't accept any number as reliable until it was backed up by at least a 100 sales/auctions over the course of a couple of years. For example, one shrinkwrapped Apple II Starcross saucer driven up to $2,000 in an auction isn't a number with any relevance to long term collectibility. This is where it would be invaluable for eBay to make the results all of its past auctions available. :sigh: -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 10:54 PM, Hugh Falk wrote: [Snip] However, the news for me is that I don't have it anymore :-(. I've moved from Florida to California, and I couldn't take my house with me (which is unfortunate since houses are so expensive out here). I'm renting right now, but when I buy, there will be another room with another set of similar shelves. One of the things we did was to buy the stackable, collapsable wooden bookshelves. You can stack two together and have a nice bookshelf for odd (small) sections of the wall or put them side by side in a spare room's closet. Our problem is that we have far more books than we do games, so our bigger bookshelves are needed for books :) (including the huge living room one that is built into the wall -- think of a large bookcase 12 feet high and 11 feet wide). -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, at 05:12 PM, CcomputerGameCollector wrote: [Snip] Let's hope that the number of people collecting computer games is growing though. That's what we all want, isn't it? The more people who get into collecting classic computer games, the funner, and more valuable everything will become. Only then will long-time collectors benifit from being in on the ground level so to speak. The main goal of my website is to promote all facets of collecting classic computer games, be it by trading, buying, selling or auctioning, and provide basic information about box types releases. It's all done with hopes that the community will grow as a result. Ya know? The downside is that you can attract the speculators who buy up anything that is shrinkwrapped or vaguely collectible. The speculators can really create a boom/bust cycle for those casual people that just want to have fun picking up and/or trading some old games they have fond memories about. (The speculators damned near killed the comics market because Marvel tried harder and harder to make their mass produced comics appear collectible. The two feed each other in an ugly parasitical relationship.) Without the casual collectors game collecting in general will stay pretty static. For me, the fun is in picking up a complete copy of old games that I can _play_. Though I have a few only-copy-I-know-of games, most of my stuff is fairly common. I want to enjoy my games, not look at them unable to examine the actual contents. YMMV. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, at 03:18 PM, CcomputerGameCollector wrote: [Snip] I think what computer software packaging has become is disguisting. Tiny boxes, and NEVER shrinkwrapped. It's sad, esp. in a time where some of the coolest boxes could probably be created. Was there an offical cut off time where the packaging of games changed so much? I mean, I've always visited the computer stores over the years, and noticed the slow change, but I just suddenly realized that a computer game shelf doesn't look anything like it used to.. Part of that is because it costs big bucks to buy that shelf space in stores like Wal-Mart or Best Buy. Smaller boxes means you can put more SKUs on the shelf and hopefully means more money (from the companies' viewpoint). Just be glad that we aren't at the stage of the console games where all you get is a CD and jewel case. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
The other difficulty with price guides is that they don't reflect regional (or national) variations in prices. One price does *not* fit all. Definitely true. Complete non-PC Infocom greys can still command a high price in Europe, as they never really made it over there until the Mastertronic reissues in the late 1980s. Americans tend to be PC-oriented, Germans love their Amigas and Atari STs, the Japanese are fanatics about Apple II. If someone was going to keep a price guide I'd like to be able to see the data behind it. Knowing how many data points make up that price (and who the buyer was) is crucial. I personally wouldn't accept any number as reliable until it was backed up by at least a 100 sales/auctions over the course of a couple of years. For example, one shrinkwrapped Apple II Starcross saucer driven up to $2,000 in an auction isn't a number with any relevance to long term collectibility. Exactly. That was (to my knowledge) the first shrinked saucer ever listed, and it created quite a stir. The last one, IIRC, fetched around $600 - $800 which is a bit more reasonable, though still more than I'd go. It's hard to set a good price on items you rarely if ever see up for sale. (Wonder what the going rate for Mt. Drash would be.) This is where it would be invaluable for eBay to make the results all of its past auctions available. :sigh: Good luck there. I doubt they've even kept data going back that far. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
The downside is that you can attract the speculators who buy up anything that is shrinkwrapped or vaguely collectible. The speculators can really create a boom/bust cycle for those casual people that just want to have fun picking up and/or trading some old games they have fond memories about. (The speculators damned near killed the comics market because Marvel tried harder and harder to make their mass produced comics appear collectible. The two feed each other in an ugly parasitical relationship.) Without the casual collectors game collecting in general will stay pretty static. For me, the fun is in picking up a complete copy of old games that I can _play_. Though I have a few only-copy-I-know-of games, most of my stuff is fairly common. I want to enjoy my games, not look at them unable to examine the actual contents. YMMV. If I want to play any of the old games, they are relatively easy to acquire these days over the net. I agree that it is cool to see the contents of the boxes, but it's also very cool to own an old piece with it's original wrap on it. I'm not sure what your point was with the speculators though. brad -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
All the images on your page seem broken btw! Which page? -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
The other difficulty with price guides is that they don't reflect regional (or national) variations in prices. One price does *not* fit all. With CGC, I don't plan on representing an exact value, which is why I use the range approach. (I.E. $20 - $40) Also, I would second your comments on buyers determining the values of their games. Most people look at the high end prices if there is a price guide and assume that is the going rate for whatever they have. They 'bond' with that price and tend to be unhappy if their stuff doesn't fetch that amount. Wether there is a price guide price or not, people have an idea about what a game is worth. If someone was going to keep a price guide I'd like to be able to see the data behind it. Knowing how many data points make up that price (and who the buyer was) is crucial. I personally wouldn't accept any number as reliable until it was backed up by at least a 100 sales/auctions over the course of a couple of years. For example, one shrinkwrapped Apple II Starcross saucer driven up to $2,000 in an auction isn't a number with any relevance to long term collectibility. There are too many variables with sales/auctions; for instance, a poorly presented auctions might fetch a low-ball amount for a certain game and bring down the average, and over the course of 2 years the value would in part represent how many times the item was poorly and well presented in a sense. This is of course, assuming a fleet of people could be assembled to watch Ebay for years and build the initial price guide. Not gonna happen. So does everyone think I should pull the mint sealed price column from CGC? It was never meant to be controversal, twas merely a 'fun' guideline if that, to promote the fact that old games are worth money and to encourage growth. I'll pull it if everyone wants it gone though. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 02:59 PM, CcomputerGameCollector wrote: [Snip] If I want to play any of the old games, they are relatively easy to acquire these days over the net. Unfortunately that's true. As a programmer I tend to view piracy (or abandonware for those too delicate to pirate ;-)) in a very negative light. Abiding by the law you want to protect you and all that. I agree that it is cool to see the contents of the boxes, but it's also very cool to own an old piece with it's original wrap on it. Yes, it is. Just realize that not everyone values a game in shrinkwrap as a being worthy of a premium. Another thing to affect a potential price guide... I'm not sure what your point was with the speculators though. When you talk about more people becoming collectors and thus making peoples' collections more valuable you are opening the door to the speculators to potentially have a strong negative affect on prices. I remember a number of Ultima fans complaining that the prices had gone crazy for the older games when people were trying to by them as some sort of quick money machine. People that just wanted a modest copy of the seminal Utimas were frozen out of the market for a time. This seems to have corrected itself since the death of the Ultima series, but I wonder how many potential collectors never bothered trying to pick up old favorites because the Ultima they remembered and loved wasn't available at a sane price? Note: I'm making a distinction between someone that speculates on games or even tries to artificially keep the prices up and a collector that buys and sells their games at a profit (for fun or to pay for their own collection). A fair and healthy profit is a Good Thing for collectors as a whole because it keeps a steady supply of quality games on the market. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 03:12 PM, CcomputerGameCollector wrote: [Snip] With CGC, I don't plan on representing an exact value, which is why I use the range approach. (I.E. $20 - $40) And given human nature people will focus on the high end of your range. :-D After all, that means their game is worth more money. [Snip] Wether there is a price guide price or not, people have an idea about what a game is worth. For many games, yes. For some, no. For example, what is the worth of one of Richard Garriott's twelve Computerland Akalabeths? The sample size is just too small to determine a fair market value for one of them. It is too easy for someone to fall in love with the idea of owning one and paying 'whatever it takes' for someone to assign a reasonable value/worth to one. It gets even worse if a game hasn't been seen yet. Mr. Falk once stated in an article that Mt. Drash might be worth over $2,000 if one was found. He was only off by nearly an order of magnitude from what my only known complete copy was purchased for. ;-) I mean, just what *is* Mt. Drash worth? There is only one complete one and one partial one known (to me) to exist. There are more RG Computerland Akalabeths around than known Mt Drashs. Does this make Mt. Drash worth more than Akalabeth? And how would one determine the worth of my complete copy of an Apple II Personal Software Zork still in 95% shrinkwrap (only the top of the shrinkwrap/box is open)? Zork 1 is certainly a much more important and seminal game than Akalabeth! (I say that as a big time Ultima fan, by the way.) On the other hand, take a grey box Zork 1 with everything in good shape. There are enough of these around that one can look at the overall sales/auction prices and figure what, on average, it is worth. This is not to say a price guide is worthless. I think one would be doable for many games. My mine problem with them is educating potential buyers and sellers to all the caveats and assumptions behind the numbers. Too many people take any number they see written down as gospel. :sigh: In the comics world many people will check several different price guides and take the highest one they find. And this is after 20+ years of trying to educate the market. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 03:13 PM, C.E. Forman wrote: [Snip] Exactly. That was (to my knowledge) the first shrinked saucer ever listed, and it created quite a stir. The last one, IIRC, fetched around $600 - $800 which is a bit more reasonable, though still more than I'd go. It's hard to set a good price on items you rarely if ever see up for sale. (Wonder what the going rate for Mt. Drash would be.) That's the problem. Is Mt. Drash only worth what I paid for it or is it worth more? (See my previous email about my speculations about the problems determining its worth.) [Snip] Good luck there. I doubt they've even kept data going back that far. Oh, I know it is a pipe dream. eBay has decided to chase after the big corporate sellers in order to fuel their growth. The small personal seller and buyer aren't a market that is going to sustain their Wall Street focussed growth. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Greetings
Well, I have to admit that I like the idea of knowing what my collection is worth as a whole...even if it has no basis in reality. I'm thinking in the order of $10 billion :-) Maybe you can put an owner's estimated value field that isn't displayed generally, but would be used to calculate the value of the collection? However, I also wouldn't mind seeing it just go away. Hugh -Original Message- From: CcomputerGameCollector [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 1:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings The other difficulty with price guides is that they don't reflect regional (or national) variations in prices. One price does *not* fit all. With CGC, I don't plan on representing an exact value, which is why I use the range approach. (I.E. $20 - $40) Also, I would second your comments on buyers determining the values of their games. Most people look at the high end prices if there is a price guide and assume that is the going rate for whatever they have. They 'bond' with that price and tend to be unhappy if their stuff doesn't fetch that amount. Wether there is a price guide price or not, people have an idea about what a game is worth. If someone was going to keep a price guide I'd like to be able to see the data behind it. Knowing how many data points make up that price (and who the buyer was) is crucial. I personally wouldn't accept any number as reliable until it was backed up by at least a 100 sales/auctions over the course of a couple of years. For example, one shrinkwrapped Apple II Starcross saucer driven up to $2,000 in an auction isn't a number with any relevance to long term collectibility. There are too many variables with sales/auctions; for instance, a poorly presented auctions might fetch a low-ball amount for a certain game and bring down the average, and over the course of 2 years the value would in part represent how many times the item was poorly and well presented in a sense. This is of course, assuming a fleet of people could be assembled to watch Ebay for years and build the initial price guide. Not gonna happen. So does everyone think I should pull the mint sealed price column from CGC? It was never meant to be controversal, twas merely a 'fun' guideline if that, to promote the fact that old games are worth money and to encourage growth. I'll pull it if everyone wants it gone though. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Greetings
$14 million is still completely unreasonable for a video game. The only games that should come close are seminal titles funded by a hardware manufacturer (Mario and the like). Depending on how conservative you are with your accounting (even taking into account rent, HR, IT and other auxiliary costs) $10 million is A LOT, and a great console game can be produced for half that. PC games shouldn't come anywhere near that if run properly (they have lower dev costs). Of course, games like WarCraft III can get away with it. Does anybody have actual sales data for the Ultima series? That would be some great info to have. Hugh -Original Message- From: Edward Franks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 11:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 01:10 PM, C.E. Forman wrote: [Snip] That's the worst part of it. They decrease their costs but don't pass any savings on to us. (Same way movie theaters piss me off by showing 10 commercials before a flick while ticket prices remain constant.) I imagine their development costs have sky-rocketed to the point that they are just breaking even or making a small increase in profit. An example: One of the reasons Origin was sold to EA is that the price to create an Ultima shot up tremendously, but the total sales of each Ultima had remained flat since Ultima III. In the decade since that happened the situation has gotten far worse. The then unimaginable $14 million costs of Wing Commander III look fairly reasonable these days. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Greetings
I didn't know there was a shrink-wrapped Personal Software version of Zork. My PS Zork is in a magazine-sized ziploc. What kind of box is yours? Do you have a scan? Hugh -Original Message- From: Edward Franks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 5:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 03:12 PM, CcomputerGameCollector wrote: [Snip] With CGC, I don't plan on representing an exact value, which is why I use the range approach. (I.E. $20 - $40) And given human nature people will focus on the high end of your range. :-D After all, that means their game is worth more money. [Snip] Wether there is a price guide price or not, people have an idea about what a game is worth. For many games, yes. For some, no. For example, what is the worth of one of Richard Garriott's twelve Computerland Akalabeths? The sample size is just too small to determine a fair market value for one of them. It is too easy for someone to fall in love with the idea of owning one and paying 'whatever it takes' for someone to assign a reasonable value/worth to one. It gets even worse if a game hasn't been seen yet. Mr. Falk once stated in an article that Mt. Drash might be worth over $2,000 if one was found. He was only off by nearly an order of magnitude from what my only known complete copy was purchased for. ;-) I mean, just what *is* Mt. Drash worth? There is only one complete one and one partial one known (to me) to exist. There are more RG Computerland Akalabeths around than known Mt Drashs. Does this make Mt. Drash worth more than Akalabeth? And how would one determine the worth of my complete copy of an Apple II Personal Software Zork still in 95% shrinkwrap (only the top of the shrinkwrap/box is open)? Zork 1 is certainly a much more important and seminal game than Akalabeth! (I say that as a big time Ultima fan, by the way.) On the other hand, take a grey box Zork 1 with everything in good shape. There are enough of these around that one can look at the overall sales/auction prices and figure what, on average, it is worth. This is not to say a price guide is worthless. I think one would be doable for many games. My mine problem with them is educating potential buyers and sellers to all the caveats and assumptions behind the numbers. Too many people take any number they see written down as gospel. :sigh: In the comics world many people will check several different price guides and take the highest one they find. And this is after 20+ years of trying to educate the market. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Edward Franks wrote: Just be glad that we aren't at the stage of the console games where all you get is a CD and jewel case. But we are: Max Payne is in a DVD case when you open the box. And most of my smallbox games are little more than a CD and jewelcase with manual inside the jewelcase. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious PC games project? Drop by http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.demodvd.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 07:39 PM, Hugh Falk wrote: Do you mind giving a range for what you paid for Drash? :-) :chuckle: I paid exactly what I offered for three years in comp.sys.cbm. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
I remember this auction. Gave up around $300 myself. It's an Apple II version, right? Smaller manual than the TRS-80, which is about the size of an Infocom folio. This is the only boxed PS Zork I've ever seen, though I have a loose disk and manual. Wonder how the heck it ended up in the U.K. - Original Message - From: Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 10:33 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 07:37 PM, Hugh Falk wrote: I didn't know there was a shrink-wrapped Personal Software version of Zork. My PS Zork is in a magazine-sized ziploc. What kind of box is yours? Do you have a scan? Here you go http://homepage.mac.com/fortranamid/PhotoAlbum1.html. Given the fragility of the box it is in pretty good shape for something that was sold in a United Kingdom software store. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Greetings
Good to know...thanks. -Original Message- From: Edward Franks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 8:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 07:37 PM, Hugh Falk wrote: I didn't know there was a shrink-wrapped Personal Software version of Zork. My PS Zork is in a magazine-sized ziploc. What kind of box is yours? Do you have a scan? Here you go http://homepage.mac.com/fortranamid/PhotoAlbum1.html. Given the fragility of the box it is in pretty good shape for something that was sold in a United Kingdom software store. -- Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
CcomputerGameCollector wrote: collectors. The end-all site that was the standard for game collecting. If Yes, I was poised to create one in a year or so ;-D But I'm glad someone else did it since I'm very tied up right now. You and I have the same mentality (make something useful that *needs* to exist). What I think I'll eventually do for softwarecollecting.org is make it a portal of sorts, where a software collecting FAQ can exist, with pictures (explaining the different types of shrinkwrap, how to spot fakes, good shrinkwrap holes vs. bad ones, illustrated examples of the various grades of the MobyScale, etc.) and other neat stuff (CEForman's awesome -- and a bit scary at times -- YOIS articles, getting older games to run on modern machines, etc.) Give me a year and I'll have time. Where do you house 600 games? Against a wall on bookshelves, although Hugh Falk has an awesome California Closets getup. Methinks now is a good time to post pictures of collections... everyone agree? ;-) I'll post mine tomorrow night. Keep it to 1024x768 or below for those of us with modems, please.. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Greetings
Well, to keep you dial-ups happy, here's a link instead of a picture: http://www.classicgaming.com/gotcha/wantlist.htm Old timers on the list have already seen this picture. We had a discussion about the custom shelving I put in and where you can get it. Details should be in the archive, but let me know if you need it repeated. However, the news for me is that I don't have it anymore :-(. I've moved from Florida to California, and I couldn't take my house with me (which is unfortunate since houses are so expensive out here). I'm renting right now, but when I buy, there will be another room with another set of similar shelves. Hugh -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings CcomputerGameCollector wrote: collectors. The end-all site that was the standard for game collecting. If Yes, I was poised to create one in a year or so ;-D But I'm glad someone else did it since I'm very tied up right now. You and I have the same mentality (make something useful that *needs* to exist). What I think I'll eventually do for softwarecollecting.org is make it a portal of sorts, where a software collecting FAQ can exist, with pictures (explaining the different types of shrinkwrap, how to spot fakes, good shrinkwrap holes vs. bad ones, illustrated examples of the various grades of the MobyScale, etc.) and other neat stuff (CEForman's awesome -- and a bit scary at times -- YOIS articles, getting older games to run on modern machines, etc.) Give me a year and I'll have time. Where do you house 600 games? Against a wall on bookshelves, although Hugh Falk has an awesome California Closets getup. Methinks now is a good time to post pictures of collections... everyone agree? ;-) I'll post mine tomorrow night. Keep it to 1024x768 or below for those of us with modems, please.. -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
CcomputerGameCollector wrote: I don't think my collection is that impressive yet; it is approaching 70 pieces, maybe 55 different titles. I have to ask, then, why go through the trouble of creating the website? Still entranced by this new budding hobby, or some other reason? :-0 I say this because many of the people on this list either buy/sell/trade software for a living (hi Tom!) or have collections in excess of 400 titles -- I would have expected one of them to have broken down by now. Your story sounds very much like mine, just shifted ahead four years. I got into computer games in 1980 when a friend's mom who worked for ATT brought home an Osborne CPM machine and it had Adventure on it. I'm mostly a PC person because the first computer my family personally owned was a PC in 1985, but I've dabbled in Mac, Amiga, Commodore, and various Apple flavors (II+, IIe, IIgs) before and since. My collection is almost 600 titles of wildly varying quality and genre, half of which I purchased to eventually enter into MobyGames (I'm co-founder). About 100 of these are treasured by me (or others; I don't particular crave RPGs, but I own a few). Like you, I am of the rare breed that collections/enjoys action titles for the PC (not considered a collectable by most collectors, but that doesn't stop me). For example, I was pleased to see we own both own Death Sword and Techno Cop :-). All of my titles are PC, with the exception of 100 unboxed C64 disks (NTSC, not PAL). Some of my highlights in terms of rarity (hate that term) include Murder on the Zinderneuf, Timothy Leary's Mind Mirror, and Ulysses and the Golden Fleece. (All for PC, which is what gives them that extra rare punch.) Other items treasured by me but probably not by many others include Pinball Construction Set, Music Construction Set, Bank Streem Music Writer (with PC hardware board), Tass Times in Tonetown, Wibarm, Mean Streets, Martian Memorandum, Countdown, World Class Leader Board, Hoverforce, Test Drive 3, Tunnels of Armageddon, Starflight, various Accolade games from 1987-1990 (Bar Games, Gunboat, Blue Angels, Altered Destiny, many others), Wizardry (2nd edition), and finally my favorite RPG of all time, Wasteland (with cluebook!). -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Jim, Whenever I get into something; in this case computer game collecting, I always try to look at the big picture, and then evaluate what's missing, and what could make my experience better as a whole. After my internet research, that brought me to sites such as yours (which is a fantastic resource), and others such as gamesTZ (which I, personally, think is a big mess only marginally useful) plus many others that deal with tributes to specific games or platforms. What I didn't see, however, was a hub for collectors. The end-all site that was the standard for game collecting. If there had been one I found, I wouldn't have made CGC, but I wanted to see functionalities that I didn't see on any website; such as allowing me to post games for sale, or for trade indefinately instead of ebay being the only option; or just a website devoted strictly to computer game collecting, and nothing else. Death Sword is one of my all-time favorites. It had to be the quickest round-robin type of game me and my friends ever played. The head shots were the best. The main computers I ever played computer games on was an IBM PC and Amiga. I had a PC very early on too (84ish), so the only time I checked out commodores such was as friends houses. Where do you house 600 games? Hehe, I'm running out of room already, and just keep the ones that don't fit in my case in boxes until I find something. Barrister bookcases are often quite costly, unless you get a cheapass Sauder one. Brad - Original Message - From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings CcomputerGameCollector wrote: I don't think my collection is that impressive yet; it is approaching 70 pieces, maybe 55 different titles. I have to ask, then, why go through the trouble of creating the website? Still entranced by this new budding hobby, or some other reason? :-0 I say this because many of the people on this list either buy/sell/trade software for a living (hi Tom!) or have collections in excess of 400 titles -- I would have expected one of them to have broken down by now. Your story sounds very much like mine, just shifted ahead four years. I got into computer games in 1980 when a friend's mom who worked for ATT brought home an Osborne CPM machine and it had Adventure on it. I'm mostly a PC person because the first computer my family personally owned was a PC in 1985, but I've dabbled in Mac, Amiga, Commodore, and various Apple flavors (II+, IIe, IIgs) before and since. My collection is almost 600 titles of wildly varying quality and genre, half of which I purchased to eventually enter into MobyGames (I'm co-founder). About 100 of these are treasured by me (or others; I don't particular crave RPGs, but I own a few). Like you, I am of the rare breed that collections/enjoys action titles for the PC (not considered a collectable by most collectors, but that doesn't stop me). For example, I was pleased to see we own both own Death Sword and Techno Cop :-). All of my titles are PC, with the exception of 100 unboxed C64 disks (NTSC, not PAL). Some of my highlights in terms of rarity (hate that term) include Murder on the Zinderneuf, Timothy Leary's Mind Mirror, and Ulysses and the Golden Fleece. (All for PC, which is what gives them that extra rare punch.) Other items treasured by me but probably not by many others include Pinball Construction Set, Music Construction Set, Bank Streem Music Writer (with PC hardware board), Tass Times in Tonetown, Wibarm, Mean Streets, Martian Memorandum, Countdown, World Class Leader Board, Hoverforce, Test Drive 3, Tunnels of Armageddon, Starflight, various Accolade games from 1987-1990 (Bar Games, Gunboat, Blue Angels, Altered Destiny, many others), Wizardry (2nd edition), and finally my favorite RPG of all time, Wasteland (with cluebook!). -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
RE: [SWCollect] Greetings
Hey Brad, Sorry to get picky, but since that coin holds such an important place in your childhood and football success, I thought I'd make a minor correction. The coin is from Ultima V. Ultima IV has an Ankh. I don't remember if I ever told my story here...I probably did...so I won't do it again. Maybe it's time for a refresher on everyone? Hey that would be a good feature to add to your site, BradYou have a user list. Let people put a little bio about themselves on their user page. Hugh -Original Message- From: CcomputerGameCollector [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 2:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Jim, Whenever I get into something; in this case computer game collecting, I always try to look at the big picture, and then evaluate what's missing, and what could make my experience better as a whole. After my internet research, that brought me to sites such as yours (which is a fantastic resource), and others such as gamesTZ (which I, personally, think is a big mess only marginally useful) plus many others that deal with tributes to specific games or platforms. What I didn't see, however, was a hub for collectors. The end-all site that was the standard for game collecting. If there had been one I found, I wouldn't have made CGC, but I wanted to see functionalities that I didn't see on any website; such as allowing me to post games for sale, or for trade indefinately instead of ebay being the only option; or just a website devoted strictly to computer game collecting, and nothing else. Death Sword is one of my all-time favorites. It had to be the quickest round-robin type of game me and my friends ever played. The head shots were the best. The main computers I ever played computer games on was an IBM PC and Amiga. I had a PC very early on too (84ish), so the only time I checked out commodores such was as friends houses. Where do you house 600 games? Hehe, I'm running out of room already, and just keep the ones that don't fit in my case in boxes until I find something. Barrister bookcases are often quite costly, unless you get a cheapass Sauder one. Brad - Original Message - From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings CcomputerGameCollector wrote: I don't think my collection is that impressive yet; it is approaching 70 pieces, maybe 55 different titles. I have to ask, then, why go through the trouble of creating the website? Still entranced by this new budding hobby, or some other reason? :-0 I say this because many of the people on this list either buy/sell/trade software for a living (hi Tom!) or have collections in excess of 400 titles -- I would have expected one of them to have broken down by now. Your story sounds very much like mine, just shifted ahead four years. I got into computer games in 1980 when a friend's mom who worked for ATT brought home an Osborne CPM machine and it had Adventure on it. I'm mostly a PC person because the first computer my family personally owned was a PC in 1985, but I've dabbled in Mac, Amiga, Commodore, and various Apple flavors (II+, IIe, IIgs) before and since. My collection is almost 600 titles of wildly varying quality and genre, half of which I purchased to eventually enter into MobyGames (I'm co-founder). About 100 of these are treasured by me (or others; I don't particular crave RPGs, but I own a few). Like you, I am of the rare breed that collections/enjoys action titles for the PC (not considered a collectable by most collectors, but that doesn't stop me). For example, I was pleased to see we own both own Death Sword and Techno Cop :-). All of my titles are PC, with the exception of 100 unboxed C64 disks (NTSC, not PAL). Some of my highlights in terms of rarity (hate that term) include Murder on the Zinderneuf, Timothy Leary's Mind Mirror, and Ulysses and the Golden Fleece. (All for PC, which is what gives them that extra rare punch.) Other items treasured by me but probably not by many others include Pinball Construction Set, Music Construction Set, Bank Streem Music Writer (with PC hardware board), Tass Times in Tonetown, Wibarm, Mean Streets, Martian Memorandum, Countdown, World Class Leader Board, Hoverforce, Test Drive 3, Tunnels of Armageddon, Starflight, various Accolade games from 1987-1990 (Bar Games, Gunboat, Blue Angels, Altered Destiny, many others), Wizardry (2nd edition), and finally my favorite RPG of all time, Wasteland (with cluebook!). -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
CcomputerGameCollector wrote: Starting to think nobody got my last email? Either that or this email list is awefully quiet! I think we're still debating what to talk about regarding the website. :-) If you check the archives (details should be at the bottom of this message), there is some discussion already on how we discovered it and what we think of it. Answering these might be a good place to start :-) -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Dan Chisarick wrote: Also, all the game stores around here are displacing PC titles with console titles. Its almost to the point where the PC gets one shelf, and consoles get the rest of the store. Compound that with PC games now being published in boxes slightly larger than a paperback novel. Several times I've flat out missed new releases because the boxes were so small (better get my eyes checked or something). I think what computer software packaging has become is disguisting. Tiny boxes, and NEVER shrinkwrapped. It's sad, esp. in a time where some of the coolest boxes could probably be created. Was there an offical cut off time where the packaging of games changed so much? I mean, I've always visited the computer stores over the years, and noticed the slow change, but I just suddenly realized that a computer game shelf doesn't look anything like it used to.. Brad -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
CcomputerGameCollector wrote: I think what computer software packaging has become is disguisting. Tiny boxes, and NEVER shrinkwrapped. It's sad, esp. in a time where some of the coolest boxes could probably be created. Was there an offical cut off time where the packaging of games changed so much? I mean, I've always visited the computer stores over the years, and noticed the slow change, but I just suddenly realized that a computer game shelf doesn't look anything like it used to.. The cutoff was about 6 months ago; I haven't seen anything large since that time. I really, really hated the small box decision -- more than you know. But if you want to look at it in a positive light, most small boxes are completely useless for manuals, so it prompts more companies to produce a Collector's Edition with trinkets/feelies, maps, manuals, and unique packaging. (Whether or not these intentionally-mass-produced versions are more collectable than the standard ones is a subject for another debate :-) -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Hi, thanks for responding to our concerns one by one :) Price guide: many of us are reluctant to work with fixed prices. It tends to take some of the fun out of collecting if everyone knows what they can expect for an item. Cruel as it may sound, I prefer to deal with the occasional uneducated buyer or seller at times :) If this were strictly an eBay thing, however, (typical 'going rate' an item fetches on eBay, and perhaps the highest price ever paid) I would accept this feature with alacrity. Without doubt eBay has a very strong influence on the market and tends to set the values for high-profile items (examples being the Kilrathi Saga, Roberta Williams Anthology, or talkie versions of LucasArts adventures), some of which have remained stable for months. I for one would welcome a feature that enables me to check what I would have to pay for an item on eBay, or what I could get for it. Not to mention looking up prices simply because I'm curious! I just wouldn't define this as the 'real' value of an item. This is entirely dependent on the subjective judgement of every single collector. It's a bit different with eBay, you may not like the prices, but they exist, and I'd sure like to know about them. Just a suggestion of course, and not even a very good one perhaps, as we would have to update the values in a regular fashion. /Alexander -Original Message- From: CcomputerGameCollector [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Feedback for issues regarding http://computergamecollector.com What I will never be able to agree to, however, are the availability ratings. Most of what has been added so far is very common IMHO, or uncommon at best. It's typically listed as extremely rare though. Wouldn't be sad if that column were removed completely. Agreed. The merit of such a thing is certainly debatable. If no one wants this sort of information, I'll gladly remove this column from the DB. It would also be nice, for someone like me (and I'm guessing like most of us on the list), to upload a comma delimited file (in the format specified by the site) that can automatically convert your collection...or at least give you a huge head start. Working on a collection importer/exporter as we speak. It's pretty much done, but want to do some more testing before I unleash it. At the moment I'm reluctant to do much with CGC because it doesn't support bulk uploads. If there were a way to load my entire collection at once (as well as bulk-suggest additions to the master list -- I have a lot of obscure stuff), I'd post it in an instant. This seems to be many people's concern; I'm working on it :) Interjection: it seems pretty useless to me to be creating yet another master list of games when Moby already exists. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a SOAP service or some other web API that people could use to access the information from Moby, perhaps for some sort of licensing fee? Since there's so much in the DB already (complete with screenshots, box shots, etc.), it seems foolish to me to duplicate the effort. As was mentioned, Moby covers a limited number of systems, hence certain box releases of certain games, and games never released on pc compats are not represented. I realize Moby's is an unmatched resource, and I'm not looking to replace that at all. While Moby's is based mostly on providing information (to my knowledge), my site serves additional functionality. I'd probably know his eBay ID if I see it. Site is employing a price guide for mint sealed games, this ought to create some controversy. Does anyone find this controversal? It's not meant to be, and is far from an ironclad value. If I see a new classic game that sells on ebay, I enter the mint sealed price in a $20 range or so. If nothing else, it's an estimate of the most recent copies that were sold on ebay. Of course it will be a very gradual thing for all the values to be filled up if ever. Thanks for the interest guys let me know what you think, Brad - Original Message - From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings CcomputerGameCollector wrote: Starting to think nobody got my last email? Either that or this email list is awefully quiet! I think we're still debating what to talk about regarding the website. :-) If you check the archives (details should be at the bottom of this message), there is some discussion already on how we discovered it and what we think of it. Answering these might be a good place to start :-) -- http://www.MobyGames.com/ The world's most comprehensive gaming database project. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Aye, perhaps I have not made it abundently clear, but that's basically what it is. What else could it be really? The going rate is the value pretty much. Fair enough, thanks for explaining this again. Let's hope that the number of people collecting computer games is growing though. That's what we all want, isn't it? Definitely. The hobby is still in its infancy, by the number of active collectors at least. The more people are participating, the more serious this will become. We could get some actual media coverage, take to the expos, etc. The more people who get into collecting classic computer games, the funner, and more valuable everything will become. Only then will long- time collectors benifit from being in on the ground level so to speak. It has one downside though - beginners will find it increasingly difficult to get started, as the initial investment may become a real problem for some. I'm mainly noticing this as an Ultima collector - the way certain titles have increased in value is quite intimidating for the newcomer. It's all done with hopes that the community will grow as a result. Ya know? Truly a noble goal :) /Alexander -Original Message- From: CcomputerGameCollector [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings If this were strictly an eBay thing, however, (typical 'going rate' an item fetches on eBay, and perhaps the highest price ever paid) I would accept this feature with alacrity. Aye, perhaps I have not made it abundently clear, but that's basically what it is. What else could it be really? The going rate is the value pretty much. Sure it's worth more to some and less to other, but at most, it would just serve as a rough estimate of current worth of an item. It's all pretty subjective stuff and can only be gauged so accurately. Let's hope that the number of people collecting computer games is growing though. That's what we all want, isn't it? The more people who get into collecting classic computer games, the funner, and more valuable everything will become. Only then will long-time collectors benifit from being in on the ground level so to speak. The main goal of my website is to promote all facets of collecting classic computer games, be it by trading, buying, selling or auctioning, and provide basic information about box types releases. It's all done with hopes that the community will grow as a result. Ya know? Brad - Original Message - From: Alexander Zöller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Hi, thanks for responding to our concerns one by one :) Price guide: many of us are reluctant to work with fixed prices. It tends to take some of the fun out of collecting if everyone knows what they can expect for an item. Cruel as it may sound, I prefer to deal with the occasional uneducated buyer or seller at times :) If this were strictly an eBay thing, however, (typical 'going rate' an item fetches on eBay, and perhaps the highest price ever paid) I would accept this feature with alacrity. Without doubt eBay has a very strong influence on the market and tends to set the values for high-profile items (examples being the Kilrathi Saga, Roberta Williams Anthology, or talkie versions of LucasArts adventures), some of which have remained stable for months. I for one would welcome a feature that enables me to check what I would have to pay for an item on eBay, or what I could get for it. Not to mention looking up prices simply because I'm curious! I just wouldn't define this as the 'real' value of an item. This is entirely dependent on the subjective judgement of every single collector. It's a bit different with eBay, you may not like the prices, but they exist, and I'd sure like to know about them. Just a suggestion of course, and not even a very good one perhaps, as we would have to update the values in a regular fashion. /Alexander -Original Message- From: CcomputerGameCollector [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Greetings Feedback for issues regarding http://computergamecollector.com What I will never be able to agree to, however, are the availability ratings. Most of what has been added so far is very common IMHO, or uncommon at best. It's typically listed as extremely rare though. Wouldn't be sad if that column were removed completely. Agreed. The merit of such a thing is certainly debatable. If no one wants this sort of information, I'll gladly remove this column from the DB. It would also be nice, for someone like me (and I'm guessing like most of us on the list), to upload a comma delimited file (in the format specified by the site) that can automatically convert your collection...or at least give you a huge
Re: [SWCollect] Greetings
Jim Leonard schrieb: The cutoff was about 6 months ago; I haven't seen anything large since that time. Around here, in Germany, it was 12-18 months ago. EA was the first to announce that cardboard boxes are outdated and subsequently published new games only in DVD cases. Others followed shortly after. Boxes around here were never as fancy as those in the US, but now it is at the point where I have to seriously question the advantage of buying an original versus downloading a game from the net, esp. considering that mostly inadequate tiny manuals are cramped into the case. Even with most complicated games like Operation Flashpoint. Interestingly, although the manufacturing costs for manuals and packaging probably dropped considerably after this strategy, the prices for games stayed the same and with the introduction of the Euro even increased by roughly $5. I really, really hated the small box decision -- more than you know. Heh, at least you still get boxes! :-) But if you want to look at it in a positive light, most small boxes are completely useless for manuals, so it prompts more companies to produce a Collector's Edition with trinkets/feelies, maps, manuals, and unique packaging. (Whether or not these intentionally-mass-produced versions are more collectable than the standard ones is a subject for another debate :-) Although the collector's editions usually cost considerably more. If we take into light that that was just about what Infocom did for *regular* games, which as well provided them with a neat copy protection, it is a little ironic where things end up now. Marco -- http://www.pp-forum.de/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/swcollect@oldskool.org/
