Re: [translate-pootle] BuddyPress translation ?
G'day Dwayne, Henrik, Eric, Chris and everyone Allow me to make some comments about BBpress and Wordpress. 1. BBpress is published by the Wordpress people, and general discussions between translators of BBpress occur on the Wordpress POLYGLOTS mailing list. The Wordpress contact is also the BBpress contact (namely Nikolay Bachiyski). 2. There is between 2% and 5% overlap between Wordpress and BBpress in terms of translatable text. So essentially, BBpress is a completely separate product and the Wordpress translators have no real reason to feel they also have ownership of BBpress. The Danish Wordpress is 100% translated. 3. There is a Danish Wordpress team, with a Danish forum etc: http://codex.wordpress.org/WordPress_in_Your_Language#Danish_-_Dansk_.28da_DK.29 http://codex.wordpress.org/L10n:Localization_Teams#Danish_-_Dansk 4. The chief translator of Danish Wordpress is René Clausen Nielsen: http://svn.automattic.com/wordpress-i18n/da_DK/trunk/messages/da_DK.po 5. There have been attempts to get a Danish BBpress translation off the ground, and René said he would do it: http://comox.textdrive.com/pipermail/wp-polyglots/2007-February/001237.html http://comox.textdrive.com/pipermail/wp-polyglots/2007-September/001474.html http://comox.textdrive.com/pipermail/wp-polyglots/2007-September/001462.html 6. So far there have been *no* PO files submitted for Danish BBpress: http://svn.automattic.com/bbpress-i18n/da_DK/ So, in the light of the above, it would seem that if you contact René and ask him if you can take over the Danish translation of BBpress, he would possibly be keen, and then once we know that we are talking to the new official translator or team leader of the Danish BBpress team, we can add it to Locamotion.org and give the person admin translator rights. Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za -- The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] BuddyPress translation ?
Samuel Murray (Groenkloof) wrote: So, in the light of the above, it would seem that if you contact René and ask him if you can take over the Danish translation of BBpress, he would possibly be keen, and then once we know that we are talking to the new official translator or team leader of the Danish BBpress team, we can add it to Locamotion.org and give the person admin translator rights. So, just to make it clear, if it were up to me to decide when to add BBpress Danish to the Locamotion server, what I would require from Hendrik of Chris would be: * Contact René and try to get his cooperation * Post a message of intent on the Wordpress POLYGLOTS mailing list * Register a username on the Locamotion server and let us know what it is. * When it seems okay, edit the two Wordpress wiki pages to add the details of the new BBpress translation team, and announce the edits on the POLYGLOTS mailing list. Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za -- The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Adding a project to http://pootle.locamotion.org/
Eric Jung wrote: Friedel wrote: I'm curious to hear: what are your main gripes about BabelZilla? I'd rather not do that in a public forum so my comments aren't interpreted as bashing. As I'm more neutral in this discussion, and having used Babelzilla myself, I can say that my biggest gripe with BZ is the confusing and often inoperable login system. In fact, that would be my only gripe -- the fact that I spend more time figuring out and trying various things to log in to my existing account than actually translating. Samuel (translator) -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za -- Crystal Reports #45; New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial Check out the new simplified licensign option that enables unlimited royalty#45;free distribution of the report engine for externally facing server and web deployment. http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Another localization system
Leandro Regueiro wrote: Did you saw this before http://drupal.org/project/l10n_server ?? Interesting. There is one screenshot of it. It was inspired by Launchpad but it doesn't work the same way. As far as I can tell, it is PHP based but it requires an additional PHP module that is not normally installed on vanilla PHP hosting packages. The translation server is not yet complete and translators who want to use it in the mean time can install it on their own, with the understanding that once the server is completed, Drupal will host all translations on their own installation. Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ -- ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] styling of the new translate page
F Wolff wrote: I agree with Alaa that we should try a smaller font for the location comments. I think it is looking large since it uses a monospaced font. The thing is that the screenshot was taken on a screen with a very high resolution viewed at full screen width. This means that there is lots of space. When viewed on a lower resolution (eg a laptop with a more squarish screen) or not in full screen width (eg if the user doesn't maximise his browser windows), the layout is likely to look more crowded. I personally had no problem with the size of the elements here... I noticed that the location comments are in a monospace font, and that is good because it reaffirms the potentially more geeky nature of it, but I did not think that it was too big. In Virtaal we are only showing it if there are no developer comments. I know that one can hide stuff using CSS, but is it possible to build evaluations into a style sheet (i.e. if dev comment = none then set loc comment = do display)? Can we try with a lighter background colour for the source texts? I agree for a slightly lighter background colour. I think I've missed the initial posts of this thread -- is this about creating skins for Pootle or will these styles be hard-coded? Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] styling of the new translate page
Julen wrote: And a third screenshot, with a small change not to give so much importance to the location comments: http://xs137.xs.to/xs137/09132/thick4732.png I prefer this one. Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] So how do I download the Thai Terminology .po files form the Locamotion server?
John Francis Lee wrote: So how do I download the Thai Terminology .po files form the Locamotion server, for instance? To prime the pump, as it were? Three simple steps: 1. Go to http://pootle.locamotion.org/th/terminology/ (the final slash is extremely important, and you won't realise just how important until you try it without the slash and then try the next two steps) 2.1 Click on the mystery link 2.2 Oh, sorry, the mystery link is Show editing functions 3. Click PO file for the file you want to download Alternatively, visit this URLs: http://pootle.locamotion.org/th/terminology/ossglossary.po Good luck! Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ -- Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging. Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Contribution of translation to remote TMs
Leandro Regueiro wrote: In the last days I read some texts about translation and some of them say that the quality in the translation is first achieved having very good glossaries than with good TMs. In my opinion, good glossaries per se aren't important, but what is important is the ability to contribute to a terminology system and the ability to get useful information from it. What I would like to see in Pootle is if a translator of any project can write a glossary entry (with definition) that will be displayed to all languages translating that project. He should be able to tie the entry to a specific word(s), but alternatively also to a specific message (e.g. to explain what that particular message means). In this way, all translators can benefit from the research done by that one translator. It should also be possible to add glossary entries (with short discussions included in them) with suggested translations that are visible to all projects in a particular language. Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ -- Open Source Business Conference (OSBC), March 24-25, 2009, San Francisco, CA -OSBC tackles the biggest issue in open source: Open Sourcing the Enterprise -Strategies to boost innovation and cut costs with open source participation -Receive a $600 discount off the registration fee with the source code: SFAD http://p.sf.net/sfu/XcvMzF8H ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
[translate-pootle] Glossary stuff (was: Re: Frequncy list)
Leandro Regueiro wrote: Another thing is that in a good glossary doesn't appear words. A good glossary has only concepts as entries, and several entries could have the same word (because words could have several meanings). That is fine, from an academic point of view, but the fact is that a glossary function must have the ability to recognise items from the source text that are in the glossary. No program can recognise concepts. Only words can be matched. Therefore, glossaries must be word based. Sometimes could be a good idea having several glossaries, because you don't use the same words in Battle for Wesnoth or in Firefox, for example. Well, I think a super list is not a bad idea. Any project manager can then take the super list and make the changes to it that he thinks is best for his particular project, but the super list remains unchanged. Isn't Martin Benjamin working on such a list via AnLoc? http://africanlocalisation.net/en/terminology A good support (or even only support) for glossaries is a great lack of a lot of CAT programs. In Lokalize there is some support for this http://youonlylivetwice.info/lokalize/lokalize-glossary.htm Well, I think there are four important glossary tasks in CAT tools, namely term recognition, term insertion, term adding and term editing. Term recognition is an automatic process whereby the tool searches existing glossaries for matching terms in the current source text segment. Term insertion is the ability to insert a term's translation into the target field in some easy way. Term adding is the ability to add terms (and their translations) to glossaries used by the term recognition function. Term editing is the ability to make changes to existing glossary entries. Most CAT tools that I know of, offer term recognition. Even if a tool offers only term recognition, it can already benefit greatly from a pre-existing super glossary. For comparison: A CAT tool that offers only term recognition (not the other three) is OmegaT. A CAT tool that offers both term recognition and term insertion, is Pootle. In both OmegaT and Pootle, it is not possible to add terms to the glossary without using a separate program. OmegaT's glossaries are easier to edit (use a text editor) but you must reload the project each time. Pootle's glossaries are more difficult to edit (unless you're running a local Pootle), but new terms are recognised immediately (if I remember correctly). From the presentation, it appears that KBab^H^H^H^HLokalize can do term recognition, term insertion and term adding (and possibly also term editing). A way to judge a CAT tool's term recognition is (a) whether it can do fuzzy matching when doing glossary recognition, and (b) whether one can customise the matching process using techniques like (i) stemming and (ii) setting truncation rules. If I remember correctly, Pootle can do #a but not #b. OmegaT can do neither. Wordfast can do #a, #b1 and #b2. A way to judge a CAT tool's term insertion is (a) whether it can be done using only the keyboard and (b) whether it can make changes to the target text term in the light of the current text (eg (i) if the SL word starts with a capital letter, but the glossary item does not, will the CAT tool insert the target term with a capital letter, or (ii) if the SL word contains an accelerator, can the CAT tool give the inserted translation an accelerator also). Pootle fails on both #a and #b. Wordfast can do #a and #b1 but not #b2. How does Lokalize fare in the light of the above? What other CAT tools were you thinking of when you made your comment? Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Glossary stuff
Leandro Regueiro wrote: Samuel wrote: That is fine, from an academic point of view, but the fact is that a glossary function must have the ability to recognise items from the source text that are in the glossary. No program can recognise concepts. Only words can be matched. Therefore, glossaries must be word based. Since I think glossaries are maintained by humans, the glossaries could be concept based. I'm interested to know how a glossary server would match a concept (from the glossary) to a word (in the source text). Or... were you thinking of having a glossary server that doesn't perform any automatic matching of words from the source text? Isn't Martin Benjamin working on such a list via AnLoc? http://africanlocalisation.net/en/terminology Perhaps. In the last times there are lot of tools for translating, maintaining TM, glossaries... Too much for me. No, the Anloc Terminology project is not a tool -- it is a list. It is a list of 2500 terms, to be translated into many African languages. If one can get one's hands on that list, it could be a useful start for a super list of GUI terms. Martin's list also has nothing to do with TM. Yes, perhaps could do term editing, but if we set up a terminology server, the term editing should be considered term suggestion that must be approved by some user of the terminology server (a human). And this is why such a terminology server will fail. If users who add terms find that their expertise is not respected by the community, and that their contributions are regarded as second-rate until formally approved by some other guy, they will lose interest in participating. A way to judge a CAT tool's term recognition is (a) whether it can do fuzzy matching when doing glossary recognition... Where is exact matching? I think that in TMs fuzzy matching is very important, but in glossaries it isn't so important. I did not mention exact matching because I assumed that exact matching is a given. Fuzzy matching can be important in glossaries if the glossary does not contain all possible permutations of a word from the source text. If the glossary contains file but not files, will the CAT tool give a result if the source text contains files? Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Terms of Services (TOS [ger m.: AGB]) and Data Protection [German: Einwil ligung zur Datenschutzerklärung)
G'day Philip Unfortunatelly, I miss two items in the registratian form and in the activation email. According to the German law, we have to inquire the acceptance of TOS and data protection in the registration procedure. As far as I know, there are not TOS. Do a search on this forum for my threads on a privacy policy (1 September 2008 and so on) -- I think that would come closest to the TOS issue. Then you can see some of the ideas that came up as possible easy solutions to the issue. The most frequent acceptance method is a line above the submit button saying I accept the TOS, with TOS hyperlinked to a page with the TOS, and a tickbox that must be ticked for the submit button to work. Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Adding a permalink button to make linking to string in edit mode easier
Asheesh Laroia wrote: Something that comes up frequently is that we want translators to translate a few particular strings with high urgency. It would be nice to see something like a permalink icon to each string so that we could grab that link and send it to translators. I agree. At present, the best way to get that URL is to move to the next or previous segment, then click the relevant segment itself (to give it focus, may not be necessary, depending on your browser), and then right-click the Edit link that pops up on the right-hand side. Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Frequncy list
G'day Asiri Dear All,If their any possibilities to obtain most frequent used 100 UIs (User Interface) in the software? If their any place to download or collect that resources? Here is one: http://pootle.locamotion.org/projects/terminology/ ...but I'm not sure what the history of that list is. Also, on the Locamotion server, in the Decathlon translation project, I created frequency word lists for each of the projects. See for example: http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/wxdfast ...and click the link for glossary for Pootle (5th link from the top) The way I created the above lists, is described here: http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/guide/clunky_glossary_creation My Objective is collecting above resources, because when localizing SW we usually we do same strings again and again. That is a good idea, but IMO a better idea would be to create such lists for broad categories of software instead. Words that are common in graphical software may not be common in communication software, for example. Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Pootle - Icelandic translations
G'day Helgi How can one become a translator with Pootle? I really would like to participate in the translation of Wordpress, but I can not find Icelandic in the list of languages within the list of Wordpress translations. You're probably referring to the Pootle server at pootle.locamotion.org, right? We did help certain teams translate WordPress using that Pootle server, during our Decathlon project of 2008, but only if the teams themselves asked for it or agreed to it. We are not formally affiliated to WordPress, and if there is an existing WordPress Icelandic team, and if they don't want to use Pootle, then obviously we can't host their translations. As it happens, I did ask Brynjolfur Olason of the Icelandic WordPress team (on 4 June 2008) if they'd like to use Pootle as a means to update and keep up to date their translation, but I got no reply. If you want to help translate WordPress into Icelandic, I think you should visit the Icelandic WordPress pages and fall in with whichever method they're using. http://codex.wordpress.org/WordPress_in_Your_Language#Icelandic_.28is_IS.29 If you want to help translate some of the other programs hosted on our Pootle server into Icelandic, please let me know -- we're a bit short on Icelandic translators :-) Sincerely Samuel -- Samuel Murray sam...@translate.org.za Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Reviewing suggestions at pootle.locamotion.org
Leonardo F. Fontenelle wrote: I tried reviewing suggestions (an uploaded message catalog) in the Pootle main server, but I'm not sure if I have review rights. I can see the View suggestions link, but when I see the suggestions I don't see any button to accept or reject them. I checked and you have full rights to that project, so you should be able to do reviews: http://pootle.locamotion.org/pt_BR/pootle/ 1. Are you logged in? 2. Do you have images enabled? 3. What happens when you click the green check mark? Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
[translate-pootle] Web access to pending files
G'day everyone Do you know if there is an easy, non-insecure way to give Pootle users access to the .pending files? The .pending files contain suggestions. At present, only users with review rights can see suggestions. Users with only suggest rights can't see each other's suggestions. I would like to make it possible for all users to see all the suggestions (without giving them review rights), so that they can discuss the suggestions (also so that the chief translator can discuss it). Thanks Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
[translate-pootle] How to do Pootle-style merge using the Toolkit
G'day everyone Does anyone know what is the corresponding Toolkit command for what happens when a user uploads a PO file to Pootle using the merge option? I mean, if I want to to the same kind of merge operation offline, using the Translate Toolkit, what would the command be? Is it perhaps a reverse pomerge operation? I mean, that in reality Pootle does not merge the uploaded file with the existing file, but the existing file with the uploaded file? (this would explain how the existing file can have priority). For this to work, Pootle has to first remove all untranslated and fuzzy strings from the existing file. Or does Pootle not use the Toolkit for the merge function? I look forward to your response. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Question about admin user adding users
Samuel Murray (Groenkloof) wrote: Samuel Murray (Groenkloof) wrote: Take a look at the attached file. It would help if I attach it (or try, at least). Hmm, zero length. Obviously this isn't going to work. You can find the file here (view source): http://leuce.com/tempfile/users_test.html Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] new to this list
Steve Herrick wrote: I take it this list is primarily for developers, but is it OK to bring user questions/comments here as well? Users and developers both. Ask! :-) Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Dealing with users who forgot password
Israel Saeta Pérez wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Samuel Murray (Groenkloof) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pootle currently requires activation of an account. This is not ideal, IMO, because the user must remember what password he had chosen when he registered. The act of activation does not automatically log in the user. The user must also remember his username. I apologise... I just checked a Pootle registration mail and it appears that the user's username, password and mail address are included in it. I must add that I often get people tell me that they never receive their activation mail, which means I have to activate their accounts manually. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Dealing with users who forgot password
Israel Saeta Pérez wrote: The automated process could be: 1) The user clicks the I've lost my password link and enter his username. 2) A random password reset hash code is generated and associated to the user_id and the current date in a (special) table. 3) The hash code is sent to the user's email. 4) The user access a special URL with the code in it, like http://example.org/passwordrecovery/ahx4bFj84DjunX0hax0r, in less than 24h. 5) The user sets his new password. I have no objection to this method, or any other method, but who would be coding it? The problem with such elegant solutions is that they require extensive coding. This is the reason for my temporary solution -- it requires only a few simple changes to the HTML templates, and perhaps one static HTML file. Pootle currently requires activation of an account. This is not ideal, IMO, because the user must remember what password he had chosen when he registered. The act of activation does not automatically log in the user. The user must also remember his username. This may seem a trivial thing, but looking at the HTTP logs I can tell you that new users often get their usernames wrong the first time they try to log in (and I can only wonder how many users we lose because of that). A common problem is capitalisation (as user names are case-sensitive). If there is going to be extensive coding, perhaps we should look at the whole issue of registration and not just lost passwords. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
[translate-pootle] Dealing with users who forgot password
[resending] G'day everyone At present, there is no mechanism in Pootle for users who have forgotten their passwords, to retrieve it. I think this may be a cause of user loss, if users try to retrieve their passwords and discover that they can't. Not all users would think of e-mailing the server admin to reset the password, and not all who do, can always find the right address. An easy solution to deal with users who want to retrieve their password would be to have a link Lost your password? on the login page, and when a user clicks it, he is redirected to a page telling him the procedure for retrieving the password. At present, this would be send a request to such and such person. Do you think this is a good idea? Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Privacy issues in Pootle: Profile page
Samuel Murray (Groenkloof) wrote: Currently, the registration page and the profile page (options.html) contain fields for the Name, Email, Password and Confirm password. I propose that two extra fields be added to it: * Display Name (used for attribution purposes): [] * Address where other users may contact me: [] When a user registers, the above two fields are filled in automatically (using JavaScript, I think) after the user has typed in his name and e-mail address (although users can change/delete them). I asked a question about this on comp.lang.javascript, and a kind user there wrote me the necessary script. I made come changes, and here it is (hopefully the attachment works). I don't know how to add this to Pootle's source code, though. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Privacy issues in Pootle: Privacy policy
F Wolff wrote: I think each deployment should write its own policy, and we shouldn't pretend to be able to say anything about servers in general, because we can't. We could encourage administrators to include a privacy notice, in the same way we encourage them to put in contact details to the administrators. We can expect Pootle administrators to be experts in server administration and similar technical issues, but we can't expect them to know the issues surrounding privacy issues, copyright issues etc. Therefore I think Pootle should be distributed in such a way that Pootle admins can focus on what they do best, and safely assume that the rest has been taken care of. Few if any Pootle admins will think of writing a privacy policy, and by the time they realise they need one, it'll be mostly too late to implement one. If we can provide a generic privacy, it protects our customers. As Dwayne suggested, let's make it focus on the positives. My proposed privacy policy statement does not contain any negatives. Negative and positive are in the eye of the beholder, I think. The privacy policy is not a marketing document to make the system seem friendly, but a dry, factual statement about how private data is dealt with on the site. Nor do I think one should, as Dwayne suggested, identify aspects that we regard as unpleasant, and bury those in legalese... although I'm all for a more legal sounding privacy policy, and I'm not against rewording. Many people want credit for their work, and they want team communication to work. You're assuming a scenario in which Pootle is specifically touted to translators as a team system and where there are so many translators that they can't help but be aware of each other's presence. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Privacy issues in Pootle: Profile page
Dwayne Bailey wrote: I think we're making this way too complicated for an issue that I think can be got around by the user themselves. If they want to work in secret, register on Pootle as a secret user. If we're going to make assumptions about what users want, we should make those assumptions based on similar situations that a user might find himself in. I can't think of any system where registration is required, in which the registration details (especially the mail address) is shared willy-nilly with everyone else (except perhaps mailing lists). The usual expectation of a user would therefore be that his details are safe. I don't mind if Pootle works differently, but the user must know. And leaving it up to the user is actually what this suggestion will do -- it would be entirely up to the user to decide how and if he wants to be identified. The Pootle server needn't determine what kind of user the user is. All users have the same options. I'm in favour of munging email addresses for people who fear spam. And I think we can simply do that automatically without making many confusing options. Munging only fools automated bots... it doesn't stop spam. I should know, because I have harvested e-mail addresses from PO files myself and I know how easy it is to build a highly targeted spam address list, munging or no munging. My original idea was quite complex, but my latest comment has much simplified it. Pootle doesn't have to do anything with the information yet, as long as it stores it. The idea is that the private and public display names are written to a text file (along with the user's name and/or username), where a server admin or project manager can access it. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Privacy issues in Pootle
Hans F. Nordhaug wrote: Sorry for top-posting, but I'm mainly bumping Samuel's post - it looks like it passed unnoticed. I agree on all four points. Thanks, Hans, for bumping my post. Some members have spoken to me off-list about my list of wishes. Not being a Pootle programmer I cannot tell if a certain wish is easily implementable or not. I was under the impression that the four wishes in my mail would be dead simple to implement, but apparently there are issues :-) I've had contact with quite a few volunteers who prefer to remain anonymous or who would not like it to be publicly known that they contribute work for free. I'm not sure if the GPL permits anonymity, though. Allow me to just clarify this point -- I focus quite a bit on getting professional translators involved with volunteer translation. Some of them prefer that their altruistic endeavours remain secret, for both moral and profession reasons. Perhaps there should be an option on the user's account page that detects if he is an administrator of a project... Apparently this would be more difficult to implement than I had initially thought, so here's a new thought: Let's assume that users would want either no-one to contact them or any other user to contact them. If the user is an admin user but does not want other users to contact him, then that is his decision. I've thought about my four wishes a bit and I'll post a few ideas that may be simpler to implement. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Privacy issues in Pootle: Privacy policy
G'day everyone At the moment, new users are not told how their details will be used and how much of it will be made public. This is actually kinda crucial. Users are not told, for example, that their e-mail addresses will be visible to the public, to anyone who downloads the PO file, or to anyone who encounters the PO file at any stage. It is important that they be told of this. All of this can be written in a privacy policy page that is linked to from every page on Pootle (at the bottom somewhere). The problem is that different Pootle servers have different policies, so I think one should write a policy that is half explanatory so that it can apply to all servers. A better (but more complicated) solution may be that the privacy policy page is generated automatically from options selected in the pootle.prefs file. But let's keep it simple for now. So here's my attempt: == GENERIC PRIVACY POLICY OF POOTLE SERVERS The way a Pootle server deals with privacy, depends on the licence of the translated files and the specific policies of the computer on which the Pootle server is hosted. Pootle was originally designed not for private participation but with public collaboration in mind, and the way it deals with a user's information, reflects that. Typically, a user's name and e-mail address is automatically added to his translation. The owner of this Pootle server has no control over the way the translations (and therefore also the user's name and e-mail address) will eventually be made public. Various pieces of information about a user can be accessed by the public, by other users, by users with administrative privileges, by users of the server with read access rights, and by users of the server with root privileges. Some information that cannot be accessed directly, can be deduced from other information. The only information about a user that is truly private, is his password. All other information submitted by the user, including record of his activities, may be available to a number of people, including members of the public. A user's activities are written to a log that typically cannot be accessed via the web interface and only be accessed by users of the server with read access rights. Whether users of the server may make such logs public depends on the policies of the server itself. For privacy purposes, therefore, users should assume that everything on their profile pages (except the password) can eventually be viewed by any member of the public, and that a log of all of their activities on Pootle can either be viewed or deduced by any member of the public. == So, what do you think? Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Privacy issues in Pootle: Profile page
G'day everyone I wish to address the following three issues from my previous mail: The assumption is that the e-mail address a user uses for contact with Pootle will be the same e-mail address he wants to use for attribution in the PO file (assuming he is aware of the attribution). What's more, many people munge their addresses in PO headers... Another somewhat related problem I have, is that there is no mechanism for users to contact each other. Currently, the registration page and the profile page (options.html) contain fields for the Name, Email, Password and Confirm password. I propose that two extra fields be added to it: * Display Name (used for attribution purposes): [] * Address where other users may contact me: [] When a user registers, the above two fields are filled in automatically (using JavaScript, I think) after the user has typed in his name and e-mail address (although users can change/delete them). The autogenerated display name should contain the user's name and munged mail address. So if his name is Joe Soap and his mail address is [EMAIL PROTECTED], the autogenerated Display Name would be: Joe Soap joe[at]soap[dot]com The autogenerated name where a user wants to be contacted, should be the same as his display name, but not munged (so that it can easily be imported into a mail program): Joe Soap [EMAIL PROTECTED] Of course, the user can remove and/or change these entries if he wants to, but by default they are entered, and if the user clicks Register, he automatically gives permission that the information be used as stated. I don't know what is the best way to store this information, but at least the name/address where a user can be contacted should be stored in a separate file that can easily be downloaded as-is by anyone with read access to the server-side, so that project administrators can use the information (eg to introduce translators to each other, or to send a newsletter to translators). Your thoughts? Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] A few smart answers for a simple question about Pootle..
Urso Wieske wrote: What are usually the procedure to let the release manager of some open source project know that we want to contribute our papiamento translations into their next product release? I think the process is the other way round. First you contact the projects and offer to do Papiamento for them. You're lucky in the sense that PAP is a rare language and with most projects you will not have to deal with existing PAP translators. But the first step would be to contact the project developers, post messages on their forums and mailing lists, and ensure that you are able to follow their l10n systems yourself. This is what I do with Decathlon also... for me it's just more complicated because I often have to deal with existing translators who may not wish to use Pootle and in some cases don't want assistance. It may also be a good idea to periodically send incomplete translations to those projects so that they know you're still there and working. If you are granted submit rights to their CVS or similar, you may be able to set up Pootle with it so that the latest POT file is always on Pootle and the latest PO file is periodically updated in their CVS, automatically. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] I am looking for the Pootle (super)admin.
Urso Wieske wrote: I am looking for the Pootle admin of locamotion. Someone who can grant admin rights to a language. Well, I'm not the super admin but I am one of the minion admins, so I can help you. Probably OpenProj, right? Got it. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
[translate-pootle] Privacy issues in Pootle
G'day everyone Let's talk about privacy in Pootle. At the moment, new users are not told how their details will be used and how much of it will be made public. This is actually kinda crucial. Users are not told, for example, that their e-mail addresses will be visible to the public, to anyone who downloads the PO file, or to anyone who encounters the PO file at any stage. It is important that they be told of this. The assumption is that the e-mail address a user uses for contact with Pootle will be the same e-mail address he wants to use for attribution in the PO file (assuming he is aware of the attribution). But this is a false assumption, I think. Many people have multiple e-mail addresses for different purposes. What's more, many people munge their addresses in PO headers, but with Pootle, there is no such option. Users are forced to have their real e-mail address in the PO file. I've had contact with quite a few volunteers who prefer to remain anonymous or who would not like it to be publicly known that they contribute work for free. I'm not sure if the GPL permits anonymity, though. Another somewhat related problem I have, is that there is no mechanism for users to contact each other. And finally, there is a problem with attribution that I had mention previously, namely that only the last translators is credited in Pootle's PO files. If translator X does 99% of the work, and translator Y logs in and makes one single change, translator Y's name is listed as the translator of that PO file, and translator X is not mentioned at all. For these reasons, I would propose the following: 1. When users register, there should be an additional set of fields for attribution, where the user can fill in his name and e-mail address as he would like it to appear in the PO file. There should be a note informing translators that this information will be available to the public, and that if they prefer to remain anonymous, they should leave the fields empty. 2. There should be two tickboxes in the account page, namely: * Allow other translators in my language to contact me * Allow any other user of this Pootle server to contact me If the user ticks the first option, the administrator would have permission to tell translators of each other and let them contact each other. If the user ticks the second option, it makes it possible for later versions of Pootle to display the user's contact details on the site itself, to any user who has logged in. 3. If a user has administrative privileges in his language and project, it stands to reason that he should be contactable by new users wishing to join his team. Perhaps there should be an option on the user's account page that detects if he is an administrator of a project, and gives an option for him to enter a preferred contact method for each project, which will be displayed to all users who visit the main page of that project. There should be a text field per project per language that he is an administrator user of, so that he can fill in either an e-mail address or an IRC nickname (along with which channel he is frequently found in) or some other way to contact him. 4. The bug in Pootle that adds only the last translator to the PO file needs to be submitted. But first... what is your opinion about it, and how can it best be dealt with? Looking forward to your responses. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Granting rights to users
Dwayne Bailey wrote: Users need to select the language and project in their options before you can administrate them. It would be really great if the administrator could do the selection for them. I often waste time having to write to translators to remind them to select the appropriate options in their profiles before I can give them access, and this wastes valuable time. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Please update translations for upcoming Pootle 1.2
F Wolff wrote: There are some changed strings in the Pootle interface that will need your attention before the release of Pootle 1.2. This is a good opportunity to test the new Pootle before the release. I see jToolkit is still there. I thought there were plans to remove jToolkit from Pootle altogether. What's the latest on that? Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Please update translations for upcoming Pootle 1.2
F Wolff wrote: I forgot to mention - the new feature to display an alternative source language is enabled on the server. Cool, it works beautifully. The function that opens the CD tray still doesn't work, though. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Pootle and XLIFF
G'day Pål I'm not a Pootle server guy but allow me to make some guesses (you can tell me if I'm wrong). Also could anyone please correct me if I say the wrong things. The procedure so far: Created a project, made sure it was set to XLIFF type. Tried uploading a sample XLIFF file using the web interface (1) You can only upload files via the web interface if those files are modified versions of files that are already on the Pootle web server. The purpose the web interface's upload function is for translators to upload translated files, not for project managers to add new files to the project. The project manager puts the untranslated files on the Pootle server manually (by FTP or some similar action). Unless I'm mistaken, the Pootle server must be restarted when new source files are added. So new or a new version of the source text is a separate function that can't be done via the web interface. Also, the project stops working altogether, only giving the error message above. I also sometimes get cases where a project stops working, if I've uploaded something that I shouldn't have. Restarting the server usually works. Personally I think the upload with overwrite function is very dangerous and should only be done by someone who works with the server admin. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Import partial translation
Krzysiek wrote: My problem: I started translate apt-rpm to Polish (apt system port for rpm packages) some strings have already translated in original apt project. All in all - I want 'move' to my apt-rpm.po file in pootle some already translated strings from apt.po, because there're some identical strings (but not all). If you have the Translate Toolkit [1] installed, you can do this: == A. Treats your translations as better than the old translations: 1. Download the PO file from Pootle (yourfile.po) 2. Let's assume the other PO file is called otherfile.po 3. Run this: po2tmx -l pl -i otherfile.po -o pl.tmx 4. Rename yourfile.po to yourfile.pot 5. Run this: pot2po --tm=pl.tmx -i yourfile.pot -o yourfile_final.po 6. Rename yourfile_final.po back to apt-rpm.po and upload it to Pootle. == B. Treats your translations and the old translations as equals: 1. Download the PO file from Pootle (yourfile.po) 2. Download the apt-rpm.POT file from somewhere 3. Let's assume the other PO file is called otherfile.po 4. Put both PO files in a folder named polishfolder 5. Run this: po2tmx -l pl -i polishfolder -o pl.tmx 6. Run this: pot2po --tm=pl.tmx -i apt-rpm.POT -o yourfile_final.po 7. Rename yourfile_final.po back to apt-rpm.PO (not POT) and upload it to Pootle. == Before you run po2tmx, you can also run posegment, which may result in better matches. What posegment does, is it breaks multi-sentence strings into single-sentence strings. Do it like this: 1. Put both yourfile.po and otherfile.po in a folder named polishfolder. 2. Run this: posegent -i polishfolder -o polishfolder2 3. Move polishfolder2 into polishfolder (so that all four PO files are in a single folder) 4. Run this: po2tmx -l pl -i polishfolder -o pl.tmx And you know the rest... == Samuel [1] http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/ -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Pootle feature request - date of the last change
Bastien Guerry wrote: Samuel Murray (Groenkloof) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The real need is the need to see who translated what, who translated when, and who translated. As far as I know, who translated what is currently not logged, but who translated when certainly is... it is logged in the server's HTTP logs. I think all users should have access to the information contained in those logs. I think requiring useful HTTP logs isn't that useful as it puts the burden on the wrong shoulders. I just tried to think how one can get the necessary information without requiring access to Pootle's inner workings. Sure! If each change if a commit in the translation database, then this commit has a date and an author attached to it. Let's make it visible. Unless I'm mistaken, the changes are committed to the translation database without any trace of who did what. In other words, AFAIK, Pootle does not keep log of which segment was translated by which user, and/or when each segment was translated. This is a terrible deficiency in Pootle (a rather unexpected one, too). The Gettext PO format does not support attribution at message level. Translators are acknowledged in the header, that's all. And PO files created by Pootle only acknowledges the last translator. So hey, if you want to know if you're the last translator of a file, just download it from Pootle and check the header if your name is there. But perhaps I'm mistaken... I would love to be corrected in this. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] [Fwd: Pootle - gettext-lint tools project]
Clytie Siddall wrote: On 19/07/2008, at 12:34 AM, Dwayne Bailey wrote: From: João Miguel Neves [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:18:59 +0100 I'm proposing a project of a web interface for gettext-lint tools (what I use for automated QA of the Firefox L10n pt-PT). I received this email from João and said that I would post it here [on the Pootle list] for further discussion. This almost looks like an extension of the pofilter checking functions already available in Pootle. Do we really need a separate tool for these tasks? It would seem to me that some of the items in gettext-lint does indeed overlap with the Toolkit checking tools, but my take on this is this: there must be many different checking tools out there that people use or prefer to use for whatever reasons -- perhaps they're just used to using a certain set of tools and see no reason to move to another set. Well, just imagine how great it would be if these people could continue to use their preferred checking tools even though they're using Pootle. In fact, if there could be a function in Pootle to export its PO files along with URLs to the items in Pootle, then anyone can use his own checking tools online or offline, and still do the updates in the Pootle UI because he just clicks the links in his browser, taking him directly to the item in Pootle. I'd like to comment on Joao's mail a bit, and I'd also like to propose certain methods of accomplishing this. This interface would allow a user to upload gettext files and get several classes of error reports: * Lack of punctuation, shortcuts, variables and other signs. This is already present in the Toolkit, but is it perhaps easier to customise the lint tools for one's own purposes? * Inconsistencies in translations. I don't think this is included in Pootle, although the Toolkit does have something similar. * Spelling errors. This would be great, although the Lint tools currently use a very primitive spell-checking engine that only works for the most basic of languages (its spelling dictionaries consist of a list of words). It would be nice if the Lint tools can use Hunspell dictionaries. * Disrespect of a pre-defined glossary. I think this is one of the todos in the Toolkit, but AFAIK it has not yet been implemented. Glossary QC is part of many CAT tools, and would certainly be a nice thing to have, although it can get complicated. BTW, there is an error in the Lint readme -- it describes PoFileGlossary as something that creates a glossary, not as something that checks against a glossary. And I can't figure out what the glossary format is. Two use cases of the project would be pootle integration: 1) The report would have a direct link to the translation in each error so it would be easy to do the correction. Yes, this is a great idea, except for one small thing... the strings and/or their locations are not referenced in the Pootle page URLs. A page URL in Pootle contains a string number, and that number depends on the actual PO/POT file in Pootle. So the translator running these checks would have to be absolutely sure that his PO file has exactly the same number of strings as the one in Pootle, otherwise the URLs won't work. I can see two possible ways around this: 1. Pootle can be redesigned to accept URLs that contain the file names and message locations. When a Pootle server gets such a URL, it treats the URL as a search, and redirects the user to the result URL. There should be a way to handle searches with multiple results (in other words, when the originating report creates an ambiguous search URL. The advantage of the above is that anyone can zoom in on a string in Pootle even if the PO file used in creating the report is slightly different from the PO file currently in Pootle. It may also be good if Pootle can parse such URLs with the source text instead of the location comments (useful if the PO file is very simple and contains no locations, or if the source texts are all very short and the report generator prefers not to rely on locations). 2. When exporting PO files from Pootle, Pootle can put the URL of each string into the string's comment, in a format which can be parsed by another tool when it wants to create a web page report. The disadvantage of the above is that users running a report would have to first download the enriched PO file from Pootle, but on the other hand it has the advantage of forcing users to interact more closely with Pootle and ensuring that users don't run checks on old files that have already been fixed in Pootle. 2) A pootle server would have a configuration for this web interface, and a user could just push a button and would get redirected to the web interface with a report on the translation. I think being able to see a one-page report of errors instead of having to visit them individually, can be a great feature in Pootle. But I think
Re: [translate-pootle] Dynamic Content in Mozootle
Daniel Schafer wrote: The trigger could be changed to a double-click, though, which would allow highlighting and copying; do you think that would work better? Well, single-click to copy, and double-click to edit, is also how OmegaT works. But OmegaT is not a browser. Your inherent problem is that Pootle is done via a web browser and some users will expect it to behave like a web browser (or to respect the web browser's existing functions). In Opera, for example, double-clicking a word causes it to be highlighted it and it pops up a context menu on which copy is one option, but search Google is another option. This feature is great for people with unsteady click-and-drag skills because it eliminates having to click and drag in a very precise manner. And in Opera, triple clicking selects/highlights the entire line, etc. I'm not sure how this is done in other browsers but seeing that FireFox, Konqueror, Safari and IE keeps copying features from Opera, it may not be long before double-clicking non-linked text may not be such a good way to activate a translate form :-) I can understand that you're trying to make the interface cleaner, but one way might be to have a tiny Edit link above or next to each segment (alternatively, an image link, if you want to remove as much redundant text as possible). The advantage of an image link is that you can have alt-text that explains in more detail what clicking it will do. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW! Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project, along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08 ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] User manual
Dwayne Bailey wrote: On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 22:34 +0200, F Wolff wrote: Please note that we have sort-of halted on working with the Pootle user manual for now - I don't want you to waste your time translating it. I must agree. I apologise -- I was a bit over-eager. I knew there was some reason why I didn't give out more languages for the user manual... now I remember what that reason was. :-) Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW! Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project, along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08 ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Dynamic Content in Mozootle
Daniel Schafer wrote: In progress: * Quick-replace translations: By clicking on a translation in view mode, the text will change to a form element, which can then be edited and immediately submitted How will the web page distinguish between a user who clicks the text because he wants to copy it, and a user who clicks the text because he wants to edit it? Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW! Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project, along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08 ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Dynamic Content in Mozootle
Daniel Schafer wrote: * Hidden login menu: On all pages, the login links have been replaced with a login form, which is revealable using the Login link The fact that the register link is a button made me think that I could register by filling in the login form and clicking the button. A button does, after all, belong to a form. Sadly, when I clicked the register button I was taken to the registration page where I had to fill in my details all over again (okay, only two pieces of details). My opinion is that a button should be tied to a form. Any other function should be a link. For this reason I also believe that the Skip button should not really be a button but a link, because it doesn't do anything to the form (it doesn't submit anything). Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW! Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project, along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08 ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] [d7n] Wordpress: upload has converted some chars to entities
Dwayne Bailey wrote: Regarding the RFE. My concern about treating text more intelligently is that it can create problems. The real solution is to get WordPress to use UTF-8 and we're sorted. I can imagine that it can't be trivial to convert their PO creation tools to change entities to Unicode (in the PO files) and back to entities (from the PO files) again. A quick hack might be to allow a Pootle user to convert the string to proper text, behind the scene we store their translation with entities. I prefer that a user has full control over what he types. For example, I wouldn't want Pootle to convert my apostrophes to quot;. The best solution for now, IMO, is to get the Wordpress people to put explanatory notes in the PO file. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW! Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project, along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08 ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] [d7n] add some project to korean section..
[This mail relates to the Locamotion Pootle server] Choi, JiHui wrote: I'm gathering korean translators. and introducing the decathlon. but in korean project there's a few project- Art of Illusion, Pootle, TuxGuitar and I recommand another projects. gimp : www.gimp.org gimp-gap : http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/Using_GAP/ scribus : http://www.scribus.net/ blender : www.blender.org/ simple backup : http://sourceforge.net/projects/sbackup/ Unfortunately I'm not in charge of deciding which projects are hosted on Locamotion.org's Pootle server, but I hear what you're saying -- you're an experienced user of Pootle and you prefer to use Pootle for all your open source translation needs. We did consider Blender for the Decathlon project at some stage (my last communication with them was 18 February, in fact), but Art of Illusion won in the end, because I didn't get any response from the Blender l10n person. AOI is not a bad choice, though -- it is smaller than Blender (16000 words versus 3200 words) and it has extensive documentation and user support groups. And I suspect one can use much of the AOI translations when translating Blender, since they are similar programs. Do you have contact with the Blender l10n people? Do you know if the POT file is available somewhere? Scribus was also on my really want to do list, but their localisation system uses QT/ts, which the Translate Toolkit doesn't support, and what's more, translators have to generate/compile their own QT files from source (which requires a fair degree of technical know-how). I didn't consider GIMP for the Decathlon because GIMP is part of the Gnome project, and it would have been very cumbersome to integrate the Gnome l10n system with Decathlon's initial goals. I really tried to get other graphics editors. For example, I was quite optimistic about GQView, but then it got forked. Wings 3D looked good, but the Toolkit can't handle its Erlang l10n files :-). Dia showed much potential but unfortunately it is part of the Gnome project. FreeCAD uses QT files. And Sodipodi is pretty much an abandoned project. As I said, I'm not in charge of what is hosted at Locamotion, but if you want to use Pootle for GIMP etc, I think it would be a shame if you can't find hosting somewhere. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW! Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project, along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08 ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] [d7n] FileZilla and Vietnamese
[This mail relates to the Locamotion.org Pootle server] Clytie Siddall wrote: I notice that Vietnamese isn't listed for FileZilla. Actually, we aren't listed for the Pootle User Manual, either. Please add us to both these projects. I've added Vietnamese for the Pootle User Manual on pootle.locamotion.org, and I've made you admin, Clytie. With regard to FileZilla, you'll have to get buy-in from the current Vietnamese translator (Jungle Man). His file is 34% translated and his last entry was made in March this year, so it's fairly recent. The PO file is here: http://filezilla-project.org/locales/vi_VN.po. Speak to Jungle Man and if he agrees, I'll add Vietnamese to FileZilla on the locamotion.org Pootle server. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW! Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project, along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08 ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] [d7n] Terminology files
[This is a reply to a mail by Clytie on the D7N list] Clytie Siddall wrote: Does your Decathlon translation project have a pootle-terminology file? If so, this file has been created deliberately to translate the distinctive vocabulary used in this software. Please translate this file _first_, before starting on any of the other project files. Each terminology file becomes a resource for everyone working on that project. It helps remind all translators of the current vocabulary, and can be reused in the future, or in other projects. You can incorporate it in your compendium. There is also a main pootle-terminology file for all projects. This is the Terminology project on Pootle. You can use the current terminology file for your language, translate it if it is not yet available, and even add new strings or new files to it. I'm not sure if I've written this on this list yet, but the Pootle server at locamotion.org has a general Terminology project with roughly 1000 words, and each software project has its own terminology file as well. The smaller terminology files contain single words that occur frequently in that project (minus very common words). The procedure I used to generate those terminology files are described here: http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/guide/clunky_glossary_creation Just a reminder: If translators translate the terminology file(s) first, Pootle will use it to propose translations of terms in real time, and translations of terms can be inserted into the target text field by clicking them. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW! Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project, along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08 ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] [d7n] add some project to korean section..
[This mail relates to Decathlon and Pootle.locamotion.org] Choi, JiHui wrote: or do we need GNOME project translators's permission for managing gimp po files using decathlon pootle? Well, if there is an existing translator and if he appears to be an active translator, then I don't want to make it appear as if Decathlon or Locamotion.org is trying to hijack his translation project. And if there is more than one translator, it could make things very difficult to coordinate if only some of the translators want to use Pootle. if some project is in decathlon, L10n of them is managed by decathlon, not by each translator? The ideal situation in the Decathlon is that software projects are very closely involved with Decathlon. In such a scenario, all or most of the administration stuff is taken care of by me or someone from the software project. This leaves translators free to translate, and not to worry about committing their translations. This is one of the core goals of Decathlon, namely to take unnecessarily technical stuff out of the hands of the translators (unless they wish to be involved with it), so that they can concentrate on what they do best -- translate. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to secure such cooperation from software developers yet. The projects hosted at Locamotion.org's Pootle server are not officially tied to the Decathlon -- to their developers, Pootle is but another translation system of many. There is an informal arrangement that we would try to get translators for new languages for those projects, but all the admin (including committing translations) have to be done by me (or by tech-savvy translators). I would typically not commit a translation if there are only a few strings translated, but if a translator in Decathlon wants me to commit or prepare a file for him, no matter how much or little he has translated up to that point, if he can't do it himself, he just has to ask. :-) We initially created language pages on pootle.locamotion.org only if a project had no translator in that language yet, but recently we have been more pro-active in encouraging existing translators to make use of Pootle. But I'm open to suggestions -- I'm one person and I can't always think of all the angles :-) Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW! Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project, along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08 ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] [d7n] Wordpress: upload has converted some chars to entities
Clytie Siddall wrote: Samuel, when you helpfully uploaded the merged Wordpress files (thankyou ;), some characters have been converted to entities, e.g. apostrophes: ___ Can#8217;t delete the strong%s/strongcategory: this is the default one Actually, these entities occur in the PO files created by the Wordpress team themselves. I think it's rather silly and I did submit a bug report about it -- I think they should at least mention what the entity stand for, in the string comments. Remember, the PO files are generated from PHP (or... HTML) files, so certain characters will be entitised. There is no need to retain the entity in the translation, of course. This is also an issue with Pootle -- perhaps Pootle should be made to recognise XML based PO files and display the entities as actual characters. Do I smell a Pootle RFE here...? :-) Samuel Related links: http://pootle.locamotion.org/vi/wordpress/ http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/wordpress http://trac.wordpress.org/ticket/7099 -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW! Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project, along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08 ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] [d7n] Please update the translation for FreeMind
G'day Clytie and Trung [this post originally appeared on the d7n announce list by mistake] Decathlon admins, it's important that we maintain the latest templates on Pootle. Do we have any sort of notification set up to let us know when upstream files have changed, so we can update the Pootle files? 1. If the POT files are maintained upstream in a known location (such as SVN or at a certain web address) one can let the server check periodically if the file has been changed. 2. A different work method may be to set the update cycle to 1 month, meaning that the Pootle admin can check the files manually once a month. I did recently update all the files on the Locamotion server to their latest POT versions. One of my earliest efforts in i18n was translating Gaim on Rosetta. Since I was new to the task, it took me a lot more time and effort even than usual. Then I submitted my completed translation to the upstream project, only to find that the Gaim file on Rosetta was way out-of-date. Yes, the fault lies with whoever is responsible with making sure the latest version is available on the web-based translation system. The files on the Locamotion server are all fairly new, so even if a translator is working on an outdated file, it won't be THAT MUCH outdated, unless the software project is very, very active. Let's avoid that kind of situation in Decathlon. :) Well, one thing I can do is to add a small section to the Decathlon wiki pages about where to find out what the latest version is. It is not meant to solve the problem, but it will empower translators who want to check up on the up-to-date-ness of Pootle's files. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW! Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project, along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08 ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] [d7n] SpeedCrunch, TuxPaint
[This mail relates to the Decathlon project, hosted at Locamotion's Pootle server] Clytie Siddall wrote: Please activate Vietnamese for SpeedCrunch and for anything else for which it is not active. If it can be translated, we want to do it. Will do. Remember that SpeedCrunch's main GUI is not on Pootle yet. Only a small section of the help file and the web site is on Pootle. The SpeedCrunch dev team is currently migrating their GUI from QT/ts to Gettext PO, but I'm not sure when the migration will be complete. In the mean time I've been experimenting with various ways to implement TS support on Pootle. One hopeful solution may be XLIFF, but the Toolkit's XLIFF support lacks certain features which makes certain TS files unuseable (notably Psi's TS files). I've recently had some success with Swordfish (and they've just added TS support in their latest public release) so I'll have another look. I notice also that we aren't listed for TuxPaint. We have it fully-translated at the Translation Project, but it's no longer displayed on our team page there. I actually posted a notice on the Tux Paint translators' mailing list to invite any Tux Paint translator to make use of the Locamotion server for their translations. I'm sorry you missed that conversation -- I'll update Tux Paint for Vietnamese. I just don't want to activate Tux Paint for languages if I don't have specific cooperation from the existing translators, hence my caution. Samuel -- Samuel Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Decathlon, for volunteer opensource translations http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/decathlon/ - Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW! Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project, along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08 ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
[translate-pootle] Rename merge/overwrite file
G'day everyone Allow me to run another idea by you. When a user has rights to upload files to Pootle, he has two options, merge and overwrite. I initially made a mistake thinking that these terms mean merge strings and overwrite strings, but in fact they have nothing to do with strings. They relate to files. Now, to help prevent a new user from uploading a completely wrong file with the overwrite option, how about renaming those two options as follows: merge = merge with file overwrite = replace file Your thoughts? Samuel - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Users and speed
Clytie Siddall wrote:
Also, the difference between statistics and checks is unclear. Error
checks are a type of statistic.
I disagree. Yes, there are numbers indicated on the Checks page, but
that's just added value. The primary function of the Statistics page is
to show numbers and cute little graphs -- but the Checks page show
numbers in addition to the other stuff.
Show Errors
Show Summary
The Summary page can then contain other useful info. After all, the
other views also contain the stats, they just don't show them graphically.
Are you suggesting that the Statistics page be renamed Summary?
My problem is that there are both Show and Hide links for Checks, Goals
and Assigns -- but for Editing and Statistics, there is only Show
links, and they are mutually exclusive.
You can have Checks shown or hidden, Goals shown or hidden, and Assigns
shown or hidden, all at the same time, without affecting each other.
But if you show Statistics, you automatically hide Editing. So it
makes sense to me that Editing and Statistics should be made somehow
related to each other, hence Show Editing and Hide Editing.
That's just my opinion.
Hence, rename Show Statistics to Hide Editing, so the list would be:
Show Editing x Hide Editing
Show Checks x Hide Checks
Show Goals x Hide Goals
Show Assigns x Hide Assigns
Yes, and the Show and Hide links would be alternative: you only see one,
not both.
That is the way it is currently also.
Afrikaans - WordPress - admin_edit.po
Works well like this:
Afrikaans WordPress admin_edit.po
No need for the hyphen.
Absolutely. I meant that there should be some kind of arrow symbol.
The bloke over at useit.com says he uses no graphics on his site except
for arrow graphics, which he uses in the bread crumbs.
So you would have:
Home | All projects | All languages | Docs help | About this Pootle
server
or more briefly, just
This Pootle
I thought about this again and I now think that having About this
Pootle server (or similar) at the bottom of the page can also be
useful. If there is a horizontal line above it, it acts as a visual cue
to the user where the page ends.
I realise there is a contact page, but I think that a Contact us or
Contact the administrator link can be placed next to the About this
Pootle server link at the bottom of the page. That link can be either
an e-mail address or a link to a page with just the relevant contact
details on it.
The link name This Pootle doesn't say anything to me. It would imply
that pootle is a common noun, and it would have to be written This
pootle anyway.
A problem I think the locamotion Pootle server has, is that it doesn't
have any branding that distinguishes it from other Pootle servers. I
wonder if the head section of the page shouldn't be redesigned so that
the particular site's own branding is more prominent and the Pootle
brand is smaller (though still present).
356 items (137 translated, 156 blank, 63 fuzzy)
Much better, but strings instead of items.
The word string is a very geeky localisation kind of term. The normal
meaning of string would be a line of characters joined together. I
use the word myself, but I wonder if there might be better, alternative
terms.
The word sentence is not an option, obviously. What about segment?
Or not, perhaps folks from outside the professional translation world
won't know that segment is a chunk of translatable text. Other
options are units (or translation units) and items. In the
Gettext world they speak of messages but that is also jargon, IMO.
That said, I'm not against strings.
This is basic HIG (Human Interface Guidelines), so we should definitely
do this. Pop-up frames to display the Help items.
I agree that the help pages should open in new windows, but my
preference would be that they are normal windows, not the JavaScript
type of resized pop-up window.
How about we do the same thing with the translation commands, and thus
save space and be clearer by displaying...
View strings: Mine | My new/fuzzy | Suggested | New/fuzzy | All
Download this file as: PO | XLF | TS | CSV
Well, I can't offer any good reason why not to, but I can dream up some
excuses. :-) My preference is that the view links are all verbed so
that they form self-contained units even though they are related to each
other, but that the download links use the intro-text as I had
suggested. But that's just my personal feeling -- I can offer no good
reasons.
17. I wonder if we shouldn't move away from the use of the term
account and use the more modern term profile.
Many websites use this link to identify you more strongly with the
product. How about My Pootle?
I have no objection -- and you're quite right about the brand awareness
it creates. But the My {Product} is usually used on static web sites
where the rest of the site offers little or no interaction; Pootle
works different, because the
Re: [translate-pootle] Users and speed
Julen wrote: Although my browser opens new windows in new tabs, personally I hate this behaviour. In my opinion the user should control the way he/she navigates pages, not the other way round. I agree, but we also have to think of users who are less computer savvy and who may not know that you can open multiple windows (or don't know how to do it) and who don't know how to use the Back button to get back to Pootle after they've read the user manual page. Unfortunately one has to take a middle ground that is unliked by the least number of people. My point with using target=_new in standard HTML is that this is the least intrusive way of opening a new tab or a new window. Also, AFAIK the HTML method isn't blocked by most pop-up blockers, and it seems that many modern browsers have some sort of pop-up blocker pre-installed. In fact, I find it funny how web sites using pop-ups go to great length to educate their users on how to recognise a blocked pop-up and how to unblock it :-) It would be fancy to have popups like those displayed in a location on Google Maps, for example. We could make use of the title attribute of the anchor tag. Hey, that's quite useful and nobody uses it! That would display a little explanatory string for the current link. The title attribute is already used in some places. Check out http://pootle.locamotion.org/projects/ and hover your mouse over the project names. The problem with this method is that you have to hover for quite a few seconds before anything is displayed (at least in my browser, Opera). So the fact that links have titles is likely to be discovered only by accident. The cute tooltip/popups used on some blogging sites are more useful because they pop up almost immediate when you put your mouse on the link, but they can also be annoying because they tend to be large and they obscure the text behind them. Also, adding [?] could overload the links and flood the page with question marks, don't you think so? Well, that's why I think it should be possible to turn them off. In fact, a Pootle admin should be able to turn them off by default (then users have to turn them on in their account settings). The way I thought about displaying them was using superscript: pa href=xyzLink here/asupa class=nonU href=abc target=_new[?]/a/sup/p ... with the pseudoclass a:link nonU defined as 50% font size and not underlined. The advantage of this is that a question mark is nearly (?) universally understood, and it will be visible yet unobtrusive. I don't know which wording would be the best but I'd change its position to the top-right edge of the page, and put it between logged in as %s and Log out. Also, I'd replace logged in as %s with %s, it's shorter and keeps its meaning. I have no objection to Logged in as but I agree that the place for the profile settings link is often in the top-right corner along with similar details. If the Logged in as is removed, then perhaps the username can be replaced with Guest if the person is not logged in. == Another thing I'd like to see is to have the login, password and GUI language fields on every page, in the top-right corner, if the user is not logged in. This will help establish the idea with visitors that Pootle is ideally meant to be used with a user account, and it will be a visual reminder for returning users that they need to log in first. So, when not logged in: Login: [field] Password: [field] Change language Not registered? Join now! To save on bandwidth, the option to change the GUI language should not be a dropdown list but instead should be a link called Change language that leads to a page where the user can change the GUI language. The Join now! is also a link. == One can also use the top-right box to teach users other things, for example that they should select languages and projects in their profiles. So, when a user is logged in, the box could have this: Logged in as: (User name) Languages: (list of target languages indicated in their profile) Projects: (list of projects indicated in their profile) ...but if the user hasn't selected any, the box would have: Logged in as: (User name) Languages: No languages selected in your account settings Projects: No projects selected in your account settings == Samuel - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Users and speed
G'day everyone And here are some more ideas. == I think it's great that the title of pages change depending on the page itself, but I think it can be improved. At present, the title of this page: http://pootle.locamotion.org/ar/aoi/index.html?editing=1 is this: Pootle 1.1.0: Project Art of Illusion, Language Arabic ...and I have two comments on it: 1. The words Project and Language are not necessary 2. Put language first, so that it mimicks the bread crumbs on the page itself. 3. I understand that Pootle 1.1.0 is taken from the site's main title, but I think it should be customisable separately, so that an admin can have just Pootle in the page title even though his site's title is Pootle 1.1.0 or whatever. So...: Pootle: Arabic Art of Illusion == Currently, the title of this page: http://pootle.locamotion.org/ar/aoi/aoi.properties.po?translate=1fuzzy=1editing=1blank=1 is this: Pootle 1.1.0: translating Art of Illusion into Arabic: aoi.properties.po But I think it should be simply this: Pootle: Arabic Art of Illusion aoi.properties.po (string #3) == Samuel - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Users and speed
G'day everyone I'm reusing the subject line :-) It is a pity that Pootle can't go directly from the login page to the user options page. The user first goes to his /home/ page, where there is a single link called Change options which must first the clicked before he sees his account settings. Well, I suppose we have to live with it, but then I think we should make the /home/ page appear a little more interesting, with more clickable links to give new users an idea of what can be done from that page. 1. It would never have occurred to me that the Change options link is meant for making changes to the user account settings, and even if it did occur to me, I still might not have visited it because as a new user I have no idea what kinds of options can be set. By new users I also mean a user who doesn't use a particular part of the site very often. I suggest that the various items on the /options.html page be given a name's, and then we could link to each one separately from the /home/ page. This will give users an idea of what options can be changed. The /home/ page can also contain the user's current settings. For example, on the /home/ page it would say the user's name, his e-mail address, his GUI language, which projects he selected, and which languages he selected. At each item is a link Join languages or Join projects (even if technically a user can also use the link to leave languages and leave projects). 2. There are three Save changes buttons on the options.html page. It is not clear (to me) that each button pertains only to the stuff above it. I would have expected each button to save all changes, or... at least the bottom button would save all changes. Also think of a situation where a user changes various options, gets to the bottom of the page, and clicks Save changes. Only his last changes will be saved. I think the three sets of options should be better boxed and separated, so that users realise what they're looking at is actually three options pages on a single page. 2.1 There is a Save changes button underneath My languages but not underneath My projects, yet the layout suggests that the languages and projects are separate sets of settings. Better boxing (framing, bordering, etc) will help clarify which Save button belongs to which set of options. 3. On the options.html page, there are words Option and Current value. Well, these words are pretty meaningless. From a programmer's point of view, the Name and Password are called 'options' and the user's real name is called a 'value', but these terms meaning nothing to ordinary users. In fact... it is *obvious* what the label Name means and that the person's name is written in the little field next to it. 4. On the /home/ page there are two lines of text -- on my screen it says: Quick Links Afrikaans ...which gives me the impression that there are two links (another reason why links should look like links!), but in reality Quick Links is simply a heading. What is the purpose of Quick links anyway? I suspect the idea is that users who log out, can see the quick links when they log in again. Well in my opinion it makes more sense to put these quick links on every page, then... and the names of the links should be a little clearer, eg: Afrikaans mainpage instead of just Afrikaans. In fact, the fact that Afrikaans is bolded on the options.html page also made me think for a moment (until I moused over it) that Afrikaans is not a link but simply a heading. Pootle is guilty of a specific type of mystery meat navigation, in that users are forced to hover their mouse over the various text elements to determine what they are (links, headings, etc). Samuel - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Users and speed
Clytie Siddall wrote: For example Quick Translate doesn't explain what it does. How about Translate blank/fuzzy? Then it would be obvious to the most doc-allergic user. (To make it briefer, if necessary, Edit blank/fuzzy?) I agree completely. My suggestions are: * View all * View untranslated I don't think a link that takes the user to a string that is already translated should be labelled Translate. In countries where sending data through the web can be time consuming, this UI improvement would be great. Sending data asynchronously with AJAX (?) may also help. Is this useful? I said I would pass it on. Saying use Ajax is just another way of saying rewrite everything from scratch... although not all people realise what they're requesting. Ajax is great, but to implement it one would have to rewrite Pootle. But I'm not an Ajax expert. I think there are other ways (HTML ways) to solve the problem of speed. One way is to allow users to edit more than one string on a single page, with a single Submit button at the bottom. Is it possible to let a browser submit form content while at the same time loading the next page? I mean, usually a page loads only once the submitted information has finished submitting, but how about a solution has the option to let Submit open a new page with the next strings, while the previous page keeps sending the submit information in the background? Certainly we need to provide for people with very slow or hideously unreliable Net connections. Pootle is meant to be used by people with fast, always-on internet connections. There's no getting away from that. Samuel - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Users and speed
Clytie Siddall wrote: For example Quick Translate doesn't explain what it does. How about Translate blank/fuzzy? Then it would be obvious to the most doc-allergic user. (To make it briefer, if necessary, Edit blank/fuzzy?) I have a few more ideas for link renaming, etc. Please tell me what you think. Some of my ideas are easier to implement than others. 1. In an effort to save space, the links in the blue box at the top of Pootle are from different functions all mixed into one box. This is confusing because the user can't deduce the various functions available to him by looking at the way the links are classified. At the moment, the links bar looks like this: Show Statistics | Show Checks | Show Goals | Hide Assigns | Translate My Strings | Quick Translate My Strings | View Suggestions | Quick Translate | Translate All | ZIP of folder I think these should be split into separate lines, and the different lines should have different colour backgrounds so the user would know they are separate groups of functions: * Show Statistics | Show Checks | Show Goals | Hide Assigns * Translate My Strings | Quick Translate My Strings | View Suggestions | Quick Translate | Translate All * ZIP of folder Elsewhere, the following occurs, all on one line: Translate My Strings | Quick Translate My Strings | View Suggestions | Quick Translate | Translate All | PO file | XLIFF file | Qt .ts file | CSV file If split by category, they would be: * Translate My Strings | Quick Translate My Strings | View Suggestions | Quick Translate | Translate All * PO file | XLIFF file | Qt .ts file | CSV file But I also think some of those links need to be renamed, and I'll explain in points below. 2. The options Show Editing Functions and Show Statistics are actually two states of the same mode, namely editing functions enabled and editing functions disabled. I think it would be more consistent for users if the toggle-able states all have the same naming scheme. Hence, rename Show Statistics to Hide Editing, so the list would be: Show Editing x Hide Editing Show Checks x Hide Checks Show Goals x Hide Goals Show Assigns x Hide Assigns 3. The bread crumbs on Pootle does not look like bread crumbs to me. In Pootle you'll see this: [ Afrikaans ] [ WordPress ] ...but that is not the way bread crumbs are usually displayed. It looks almost like those two links are two independent links, not a hierarchy of links. So I think it should be renamed to display as follows: Afrikaans - WordPress Them something like this: [ Afrikaans ] [ WordPress ] admin_edit.po would become this: Afrikaans - WordPress - admin_edit.po 4. The link About this Pootle server is visually too close to the Start | Previous 10 | Items 1 to 10 of 356 | Next 10 | End set of links. There should be a separator above it, or *ideally* it should be placed at the top of the page next to Docs help. So you would have: Home | All projects | All languages | Docs help | About this Pootle server 5. I have a problem with the line Start | Previous 10 | Items 11 to 20 of 356 | Next 10 | End. The two items on either side are links, but the text in the middle looks like it could be a link, even though it isn't a link. Actually I think there too many words there. There is a convention on the web to use arrow-quote characters for 'next/previous page' and 'first/last page'. That entire line can be reduced to this: | | | 6. (Related to #5) I agree that user should know where they are in the file, but a better way to do that would be to put string numbers next to each string. I mean, there would be three columns -- one for the string number, one for the source text and one for the target text. This would also make it easier for people to discuss specific strings on a forum, eg Look at item 312 instead of Look at the fourth item from the top on this/that page. The total number of items are already displayed in the blue box. 7. The text in brackets in the following line could create the wrong impression: 137/356 translated (156 blank, 63 fuzzy) Text in brackets usually say something more about that which precedes the brackets. This might make people think that blank and fuzzy are types of translated. One suggestion would be: * 219/356 untranslated (156 blank, 63 fuzzy) or... 356 items (137 translated, 156 blank, 63 fuzzy) 8. There should be a search box somewhere Go to item [ ], so that people can type in the number of the item they want to go to, instead of having to fiddle with the URL in their browser if they want to jump to a particular item. I suggest the Go-to box is placed at the bottom of the page, in a blue ribbon, along with the navigational arrows mentioned in #5 above. This would be easy to implement if there is some way to reference the name of the page and the mode that page is in: http://pootle.locamotion.org/af/wordpress/admin_edit.po?translate=1view=1pofilename=admin_edit.poitem=
Re: [translate-pootle] Users and speed
Samuel Murray (Groenkloof) wrote: 20. How about rewriting Pootle in PHP? Just kidding. Okay, here's a real #20 for you: let Pootle remember that last page a user had visited, so that he can return to it directly when he logs in the next day. Samuel - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Pootle MultiTab
Miklos Vajna wrote: Samuel wrote: http://leuce.com/tempfile/pootle_multitab_test.zip If you can do a diff, that would be appreciated, so that we could see what did you achieved. A diff presupposes that I had changed something :-). This utility (if you can call it that) is simply a single HTML page that opens multiple pages from Pootle simultaneously when the user clicks a link. It is a quickfix to the problem that translators have to wait for the Pootle server to serve the next translatable item. In an offline tool, there would be no waiting, so ideally there should be no waiting in Pootle either. Of course, this can solved within Pootle itself by making it possible to submit more than item at a time (say, 10 at a time), but that is unlikely to be implemented soon. I wonder if it would be possible to program Pootle in such a way that instead of loading the next page when a translator clicks Submit, Pootle loads a blank page in the browser that closes the browser window after a second or two. Samuel - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Pootle MultiTab
Clytie Siddall wrote: This opens multiple tabs in your browser, all showing strings needing translation in the chosen file? ...However, it doesn't work for a single file, because you get the same next string shown on more than one page. Quite right. This is why pMultiTab opens ten pages, and the user must close all ten pages before opening the next ten pages. It is easy to close pages using a keyboard shortcut such as Ctrl+W. Unfortunately I can't let pMultiTab close the pages itself because I have no way of knowing how slow the user's internet access is and how long the page must wait before closing itself. Samuel - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
[translate-pootle] Pootle MultiTab
G'day everyone In my personal capacity I created an ugly hack to translate stuff faster in Pootle. It opens multiple tabs simultaneously, so you don't wait for new strings to load. Let me know what you think. This is a personal hack, not affiliated to any organisation. http://leuce.com/tempfile/pootle_multitab_test.zip I'm not sure yet if this method will stuff things up for the poor sys admin (resulting in weird logs, etc). Samuel - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
