Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 10:40 -0400, Mike Holstein wrote: hey Ralf... the offical IRC channels are logged at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ if you would like to browse through them. the reason i suggest the IRC is that an exchange such as the one you and I have had for the past week or so could be taken care of in a few minutes on the IRC. [snip] otherwise, if you would like to join the -devel IRC channel for a moment and check out how it works, you can use this freenode webchat link, http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntustudio-develuio=d4 . [snip] I'm not sure if I'll chat. What are favourable Greenwich times to join IRC? Ralf -- Today's Google Doodle: Did Emil Berliner or Emile Berliner invent the record? Was there ever an invention called record? If so, do turntables play MP3 files? Is there an iThingy that ships with turntables? -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.netwrote: On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 10:40 -0400, Mike Holstein wrote: hey Ralf... the offical IRC channels are logged at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ if you would like to browse through them. the reason i suggest the IRC is that an exchange such as the one you and I have had for the past week or so could be taken care of in a few minutes on the IRC. [snip] otherwise, if you would like to join the -devel IRC channel for a moment and check out how it works, you can use this freenode webchat link, http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntustudio-develuio=d4 . [snip] I'm not sure if I'll chat. What are favourable Greenwich times to join IRC? literally anytime is good to help in #ubuntustudio. i am EST, and i routinely miss folks with questions late nite. if you join #ubuntustudio-devel, there might not be anyone around to chat, but literally anytime is fine to try... Ralf -- Today's Google Doodle: Did Emil Berliner or Emile Berliner invent the record? Was there ever an invention called record? If so, do turntables play MP3 files? Is there an iThingy that ships with turntables? -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ http://wnclug.ourproject.org/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Fri, 2011-05-20 at 11:00 -0400, Mike Holstein wrote: On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 10:40 -0400, Mike Holstein wrote: hey Ralf... the offical IRC channels are logged at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ if you would like to browse through them. the reason i suggest the IRC is that an exchange such as the one you and I have had for the past week or so could be taken care of in a few minutes on the IRC. [snip] otherwise, if you would like to join the -devel IRC channel for a moment and check out how it works, you can use this freenode webchat link, http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntustudio-develuio=d4 . [snip] I'm not sure if I'll chat. What are favourable Greenwich times to join IRC? literally anytime is good to help in #ubuntustudio. i am EST, and i routinely miss folks with questions late nite. if you join #ubuntustudio-devel, there might not be anyone around to chat, but literally anytime is fine to try... Ok, so your time is UTC -5, here in Germany at the moment the time is UTC +2. I don't have a job at the moment and could chat at night during the week. I'm undecided ;). This weekend I need to tidy up my hard disks, remove outdated Linux installs, install Ardour3 and search the web for information about sound cards. I'm faintly reminiscent of friends, so I should spend some time with them this weekend ;). -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
You're making the right decision with XFCE. I ran Unity for several weeks on both desktop and laptop, and finally ended up rolling back to Maverick. I found Unity's workflow cumbersome even for regular desktop work, and it's a bugfest as well. I did not even try - saw it on a colleagues computer - and heard him cursing. The last time I heard him curse so much he was using XP. On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Glenn Holmer shad...@lyonlabs.org wrote: On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 07:05 -0500, Scott Lavender wrote: I'm not sure I agree with your assertion about disrupting a serious producer/artist however. Just changing the UI to the point where a person's comfortable and favoured workflow will not work would cause quite a reaction. I don't want to imagine the reaction if we switched to something that was buggy where we lost functionality or it crashed often. You're making the right decision with XFCE. I ran Unity for several weeks on both desktop and laptop, and finally ended up rolling back to Maverick. I found Unity's workflow cumbersome even for regular desktop work, and it's a bugfest as well. -- Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682) http://www.lyonlabs.org After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Am Tue, 17 May 2011 00:53:52 +0200 schrieb Robert Klaar nim.b...@gmail.com: Well, either way the system seems to go towards a more OSX like feeling, however I can't help but like the inovative style of Gnome 3, atm. I'm running 10.10 with cairodock Sorry if I'm confused ... are you using Gnome 3 or are you using Unity? Alrighty then, Thomas. signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Sorry if I got a bit confusing, I've been trying both out at my laptop, I would probably guess though that for the next version they will leave Unity for Gnome 3, that's the impression i get from the forums aso. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Thomas Orgis thomas-fo...@orgis.orgwrote: Am Tue, 17 May 2011 00:53:52 +0200 schrieb Robert Klaar nim.b...@gmail.com: Well, either way the system seems to go towards a more OSX like feeling, however I can't help but like the inovative style of Gnome 3, atm. I'm running 10.10 with cairodock Sorry if I'm confused ... are you using Gnome 3 or are you using Unity? Alrighty then, Thomas. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 00:23 +0200, Robert Klaar wrote: Many artists/producers DO use mac's and wouldn't this open up for a larger group of potential users? iTux? I guess you'll get Windows and MacOs themes for many Linux DEs. Hm? Many people don't know that it's also possible to customize even old Windows versions. It's possible to replace double-clicks by single-clicks, to switch colours, borders etc., but usually Windows users don't change even a colour. Seen from this vantage point it would confuse such users, if a DE does look equal to the DE for another OS, but it might act just a little bit different. For me it's no big deal to switch between Atari TOS (less a DE, than just a WM), Windows, OSx and various Linux DEs. I do customize my environments if wanted. Anyway, IMO most important for Ubuntu Studio is to provide a desktop that does fit to the needs of many artists and producers, customer acquisition is unimportant. All WMs, DEs nearly do the same, but the marginal differences are important for the work flow. Most of the times I do use a terminal emulation for file-browsing, just sometimes I prefer a file manager. The best ever was Konqueror for KDE3. If you e.g. fluffy compare Konqueror, Dolphin and Nautilus they seem to be very similar, but the aren't. Differences to other file managers such as PacManFM, Thunar etc. obviously differ a lot. It's no big deal to install several WMs/DEs, but it's only possible to customize one of those DEs completely, because of freedesktop issues, that e.g. could cause that there will be two wastebasket or other unwanted objects on your desktop, after closing a file manager, it might switch the panels of the chosen DE by those of another installed DE, the file manager originally is intended for. -1 for iTux Ralf -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Tue, 2011-05-17 at 00:53 +0200, Robert Klaar wrote: And that being said, I think we ARE trying to attract the same people as apple do, and that might be something we can learn from wether we like it or not. No, iCommercial first was for elitists and since some years, it's for the all-consuming masses. Using a Mac is more intended by the wish to be hip, than regarding to arguments. I would prefer Microsoft instead of Apple and I guess Linux is more attractive for some Microsoft users. There are very few situations a Mac would be the better choice, than a Windows computer would be. An averaged computer users doesn't care about POSIX etc.. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 13:36 -0400, Mike Holstein wrote: we, as a community (especially the ubuntustudio community) need to adopt an attitude 'if its broke, fix it'. there are simple things that you and i as non-technical users can do such as documentation, wiki updating, advocacy and meeting planning. let me know when you would like to meet up on the IRC. thats really where realtime discussion and collaboration happens. thanks Ok, I'm already doing this kind of things. I don't like chats, I'm not subscribed to any chat. The mailing-list should be ok too ;). Ralf -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Robert Klaar nim.b...@gmail.com wrote: Well, either way you risk loosing supporters but in my opinion it's much worse to risk being outdated than getting a bit of disruption for some time(and I can't see how this can get so disruptive to a serious producer/artist that it get's such a big problem, but this is just my opinion). -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users Hi Robert! I have a question about this statement...Why do you think XFCE is outdated? I think XFCE can look *quite* nice. I've quickly found and linked a screen shot to demonstrate. [1] I'm not sure I agree with your assertion about disrupting a serious producer/artist however. Just changing the UI to the point where a person's comfortable and favoured workflow will not work would cause quite a reaction. I don't want to imagine the reaction if we switched to something that was buggy where we lost functionality or it crashed often. Cheers, ScottL [1] http://labor-liber.org/images/linux/xfce.jpg -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:57 AM, Ralf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: Ok, I'm already doing this kind of things. I don't like chats, I'm not subscribed to any chat. The mailing-list should be ok too ;). Ralf hey Ralf... the offical IRC channels are logged at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ if you would like to browse through them. the reason i suggest the IRC is that an exchange such as the one you and I have had for the past week or so could be taken care of in a few minutes on the IRC. you really dont need to 'subscribe' in any official sense. you just join and start typing. if you are asking how do i get more involved? and im answering help me in the IRC support channel, and communicate in realtime in the -devel channel with the dev team, and you are saying no thanks, then thats fine. you can keep up with the minutes and the logs of the meetings as they occur (in the IRC channel on freenode #ubuntustudio-devel) and make sure you are subscribed to the ubuntustudio-devel mailing list https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel . otherwise, if you would like to join the -devel IRC channel for a moment and check out how it works, you can use this freenode webchat link, http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntustudio-develuio=d4 . you *can* be involved without being on the IRC for sure, but thats where the official meetings occur, and thats where the seeds of these ideas get born, developed and discussed (assuming you would like to be around when we are brainstorming) such as the switch to XFCE. ALSO, i had mentioned potentially maintaining a gnome2 metapackage (such as ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome) HOWEVER, Scott Lavender officially inquired about gnome2's availability, and gnome2 is being pulled from the repos in 11.10. we were hoping to have a cycle or 2 to hang back at gnome2 if needed, but that is not the case. i also mentioned on the -devel mailing list that if a group of users wanted to maintain a gnome3 or unity ubuntustudio-desktop package, im sure that would be welcomed. thanks. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ http://wnclug.ourproject.org/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 07:05:22AM -0500, Scott Lavender wrote: [1] http://labor-liber.org/images/linux/xfce.jpg Sorry for not adding any information to the thread, but that is a gorgeous desktop! DAMN! -- Jaska signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On 05/17/2011 08:17 AM, Janne Jokitalo wrote: On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 07:05:22AM -0500, Scott Lavender wrote: [1] http://labor-liber.org/images/linux/xfce.jpg Sorry for not adding any information to the thread, but that is a gorgeous desktop! DAMN! +1 on the XFCE desktop. I have used XFCE (xubuntu) and it's a fine environment. Very close to Gnome2 and I expect with a little work it will more than do the business for Ubuntu Studio. I have tried Unity and Gnome3. Can't say I saw much to like in either of them at this time. Which may change in the future but I'm not in any hurry to have either of them on machines I use. -- Cheers, SDM -- a 21st Century Schizoid Man Systems Theory project website: http://systemstheory.net find us on MySpace, GarageBand, Reverb Nation, Last FM, CDBaby free MP3s of Systems Theory, Mike Dickson Greg Amov music at http://mikedickson.org.uk -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Scott Lavender scottalaven...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Robert Klaar nim.b...@gmail.com wrote: Well, either way you risk loosing supporters but in my opinion it's much worse to risk being outdated than getting a bit of disruption for some time(and I can't see how this can get so disruptive to a serious producer/artist that it get's such a big problem, but this is just my opinion). -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users Hi Robert! I have a question about this statement...Why do you think XFCE is outdated? I think XFCE can look *quite* nice. I've quickly found and linked a screen shot to demonstrate. [1] I wouldn't say that Xfce is outdated, I was just trying to say that the concept might be outdated and that a change like this in my opinion seems pretty ok, to me it seems like Gnome 3 is getting a lot of heat for nothing, most things still seems to be avaliable, but I'm not using things like applets either so maybe I'm missing something that's vital to some. I'm not sure I agree with your assertion about disrupting a serious producer/artist however. Just changing the UI to the point where a person's comfortable and favoured workflow will not work would cause quite a reaction. I don't want to imagine the reaction if we switched to something that was buggy where we lost functionality or it crashed often. Yes, but I don't think that's going to be the case. However this might depend on what kind of user you are and again this should be based on what users US is trying to attract. Personally I would say that I'm somewhat in between, I've been using linux on and of since 2005 and I know my way around it, but I'm also more of an artist really than a programmer and find that many times these two collide. Say, I'm setting up my connections for jack and get really technical about this stuff, I like to get it to run smoothly, connect stuff via. jackeq so that I can have individual volume controls between say a sampler and my web-browser, all this is nice but has nothing to do with me actually making any music. These examples aren't really problems but say perhaps that I need to get an rt-kernel installed because my computer is to slow , in theory this is simple and mostly it is but from experience I seem to encounter at least a dozen of problems related to something in my music-making chain of programs. My geeky side doesn't mind fixing these issues but at the same time they take away a lot of time that could be spent making music. But that's me, and then we have those who like to get very technical(maybe your average Linux user perhaps) that spend decades configuring and customizing, and to them it's not so much about making music/art as to the many ways it can be made. However, I think most artists is neither of the above. What these people wan't is to have something that looks nice and inspiring, something that's stable and something that's pretty advanced so that they can focus on their music/art instead of having to spend a day configuring first. And this, I think, is the direction Ubuntu and US HAS been taking for the past year at least, and I do like this a lot as I'm sure others of the above group do as well. This was also something that I felt had been taken further when testing Gnome 3 and I think reverting to Xfce would be, in this sense, taking a step back. I think US has become more than just a system for people with lot's of knowledge in linux, computers in general and who think that people that use A.) Macs are hipsters B.) Windows are stupid. But I guess this is all about who we're trying to reach and if we're not trying to attract these people but people who're already used to Linux and ALSO like to make music/other forms of art then maybe switching to Xfce is exactly what's best. Best, Robert K Cheers, ScottL [1] http://labor-liber.org/images/linux/xfce.jpg -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
join On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Robert Klaar nim.b...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Scott Lavender scottalaven...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Robert Klaar nim.b...@gmail.com wrote: Well, either way you risk loosing supporters but in my opinion it's much worse to risk being outdated than getting a bit of disruption for some time(and I can't see how this can get so disruptive to a serious producer/artist that it get's such a big problem, but this is just my opinion). -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users Hi Robert! I have a question about this statement...Why do you think XFCE is outdated? I think XFCE can look *quite* nice. I've quickly found and linked a screen shot to demonstrate. [1] I wouldn't say that Xfce is outdated, I was just trying to say that the concept might be outdated and that a change like this in my opinion seems pretty ok, to me it seems like Gnome 3 is getting a lot of heat for nothing, most things still seems to be avaliable, but I'm not using things like applets either so maybe I'm missing something that's vital to some. I'm not sure I agree with your assertion about disrupting a serious producer/artist however. Just changing the UI to the point where a person's comfortable and favoured workflow will not work would cause quite a reaction. I don't want to imagine the reaction if we switched to something that was buggy where we lost functionality or it crashed often. Yes, but I don't think that's going to be the case. However this might depend on what kind of user you are and again this should be based on what users US is trying to attract. Personally I would say that I'm somewhat in between, I've been using linux on and of since 2005 and I know my way around it, but I'm also more of an artist really than a programmer and find that many times these two collide. Say, I'm setting up my connections for jack and get really technical about this stuff, I like to get it to run smoothly, connect stuff via. jackeq so that I can have individual volume controls between say a sampler and my web-browser, all this is nice but has nothing to do with me actually making any music. These examples aren't really problems but say perhaps that I need to get an rt-kernel installed because my computer is to slow , in theory this is simple and mostly it is but from experience I seem to encounter at least a dozen of problems related to something in my music-making chain of programs. My geeky side doesn't mind fixing these issues but at the same time they take away a lot of time that could be spent making music. But that's me, and then we have those who like to get very technical(maybe your average Linux user perhaps) that spend decades configuring and customizing, and to them it's not so much about making music/art as to the many ways it can be made. However, I think most artists is neither of the above. What these people wan't is to have something that looks nice and inspiring, something that's stable and something that's pretty advanced so that they can focus on their music/art instead of having to spend a day configuring first. And this, I think, is the direction Ubuntu and US HAS been taking for the past year at least, and I do like this a lot as I'm sure others of the above group do as well. This was also something that I felt had been taken further when testing Gnome 3 and I think reverting to Xfce would be, in this sense, taking a step back. I think US has become more than just a system for people with lot's of knowledge in linux, computers in general and who think that people that use A.) Macs are hipsters B.) Windows are stupid. But I guess this is all about who we're trying to reach and if we're not trying to attract these people but people who're already used to Linux and ALSO like to make music/other forms of art then maybe switching to Xfce is exactly what's best. Best, Robert K Cheers, ScottL [1] http://labor-liber.org/images/linux/xfce.jpg -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 15:46 -0400, Michael Dickson wrote: On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 13:17 -0400, Mike Holstein wrote: check out gnome3 here http://www.gnome3.org/tryit.html and see what you think. assuming gnome3 is an acceptable DE for ubuntustudio, it cannot be disputed that it is a drastic change from gnome2, and its arguable that XFCE is actually more like gnome2 than gnome3 is. i have been hanging out in the #gnome channel on freenode looking into what 'compatibility mode' is in gnome3, and how to get it running, and if it is indeed the same as gnome3, and if it is going to be part of gnome3 in the long term. to quote from the IRC channel 'gnome2 is dead'. that being said, feel free to actually go and check out gnome3 for yourself, and report on its functionality. thanks I have actually run Gnome3. And like others I struggled with it a bit initially. But after using it for a little while I found it very nice. It is a big change however, no disputing that. I'll weigh in with this opinion. I believe Ubuntu Studio should track the default Ubuntu desktop for the release track its on. In the time frame being discussed that would actually mean Unity as I understand it. Unity has its own issues and represents a big change. But it will be the default for the platform and therefore likely have the largest user base for the DE environments supported. And that user based insures testing and stability for US. Now if someone isn't comfortable with that approach an alternative that should be available is installing the Ubuntu flavor you prefer (like XUbuntu for instance) and retrofitting packages from Studio on top of it. So no reason I cant run studio bits under XFCE. But the default should be the default for the distribution. That's my take and the argument for it. Mike The averaged Ubuntu user isn't a home recording or professional studio user. A long time ago I used KDE3 (on Suse and Debian). When they stopped KDE3 and switched to KDE4, I switched to GNOME. KDE4 has a lot of advantages, but the workflow changed and it became less good for the way I'm using the desktop environment, especially when making music. If it's similar for the change from GNOME2 to GNOME3, it would be nice to get an already set up substitution. Installing Ubuntu Studio from the Ubuntu Studio media caused issues here, installing Edubunt + Ubuntu Studio packages result in a good DAW. So for me the only problem might be, that installing the Ubuntu Studio packages might force me to keep XFCE too, even if I shouldn't use it, but yes, it's no big deal to have several WMs/DEs installed and to chose one, when logging in. XFCE shouldn't become a dependency for all Ubuntu Studio meta packages. Regarding to computer resources, the best environment I ever used, was a frame based environment. Ion2. But short-cuts aren't good when you've got one hand on the guitar, the other on the mixing console and you need to start the recording with your nose. Ralf -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 19:41 +0200, Robert Klaar wrote: If there is one thing I've learned in these years using linux is to go with the mainstream and use what people use most, not doing so might land you in a position where something as basic, for a musician, as getting your soundcard to work seem hopeless due to lack of support. Full ACK, but making music using Linux is done ... I think US would be wise to stay as close as possible to it, and even though switching DE's is not really that drastic, changing something like this might make it a lot more harder for an artist or a producer etc., with little computer experience, solving problems as the solution found in the forums might not be enough. Now, this is not a problem for most people who use linux since you get used to these things after a while switching distro's aso. and in general you get better at it but not everyone does this, especially not your typical artist type, that's why many musicians prefer mac's. ... by a marginal group. PRO FOOLS and other stuff is used because humans are gregarious animals. The trendies wish to be cooler, than ordinary Microsoft users. An Apple computer is a status symbol and often not the best choice for a recording studio. We can't stay close !!! to the averaged desktop user community, if we need real real-time. It begins with default settings for the DE, e.g. sound for the desktop. When I'm using the computer for office work etc. I don't need audio, but the averaged user wish to have audio. If I use it to make music, I won't here any voice from the trash can that is double as loud as my recordings are. Ralf -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Am Sun, 15 May 2011 15:46:50 -0400 schrieb Michael Dickson mike.dick...@rivendellnh.com: I believe Ubuntu Studio should track the default Ubuntu desktop for the release track its on. I have thoughts in the same direction, but regarding change from default, I got a perhaps more narrow view, even. A user I support has a normal laptop with ubuntu (10.10) and a separate machine with Studio. I actually installed from the US medium and thus got the different UI configuration, compared to stock ubuntu: Different optics and different menus (like, the missing Applications and System direct-access menus in the panel). That wouldn't fly at all. So I configured the US install to look just like a default desktop (which took some time since you have to search through forum posts to find anything). The user doesn't want disruption of the known workflow. Not again, after getting accustomed to Linux / ubuntu at all. So, the current / last ubuntu Studio deviations from the normal Gnome 2 install were too much already. I see the question of switching the desktop you get when installing Studio directly as not that relevant to me: I'll install people the vanilla ubuntu and then add Studio packages on top, keeping the known interface. And to be honest, that's the two faces of ubuntu Studio I see: 1. Exactly the same desktop as vanilla, just with added functionality (realtime settings, etc.). 2. Something different. The second category includes the old setup with a changed Gnome 2 configuration, as well as a possible XFCE setup in the future: It's different from vanilla. That's enough for my users not to use it. It doesn't matter for normal users how different it is. Perhaps more different is better to quickly realize that one has to adapt expectations. Pro people who are more dedicated to studio work, who wire up lots of JACK clients and have many desktops filled with those synth / sampler controls, can benefit from a specialized ubuntu Studio desktop. People who just want to record a bit with some provided Ardour templates will use the environment they have on other installs -- otherwise they get confused and annoyed. Just go ahead and change ubuntu Studio desktop to what you think is best -- as long as one can just upgrade a vanilla install with the audio recording packages. Alrighty then, Thomas. PS: Of course it's a separate question how those users will survive the switch to unity ... well, for 11.04, it will be classic desktop for sure! signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 17:12 +0200, Ralf wrote: On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 10:24 -0400, Mike Holstein wrote: Ralph, im going to assume a question here. that question would be... will the ubuntustudio metapackages *require* XFCE? theres one metapackage right now called ubuntustudio-desktop. that would be the one that would pull XFCE in, and switch DE's. theres no reason why the others should do that, or need to do that, and thats a very valid point that i will keep in mind as we move forward. this question you posed also gave me a great idea. maybe we can just take the current ubuntustudio-desktop (with gnome2), leave it as-is (so there is no maintenance) rename it ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome, and leave that in place as long as gnome2 is around. in that way, a user could install the current ubuntu vanilla, and get switched to the good 'ol gnome current setup that we all know and love by running sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-destkop-gnome. this package could be around as long as ubuntu has gnome2 in the repo. i will ask how challenging that could be to implement that, unless you would like to take that on Ralph? it would be great if you could help us constructively resolve some of these issues users are having with this UI switch. A good idea to provide 2 different desktop meta packages, if somebody has the time and knowledge to maintain the GNOME package. I might have some time to contribute some work, but I guess not the knowledge to help here. Resp. how could I (and perhaps other people) contribute something regarding to the DE issue? Ralf PS: Pardon? No maintenance? What's the difference between a Ubuntu vanilla GNOME and the GNOME by the Ubuntu Studio package? -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On , Ralf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 17:12 +0200, Ralf wrote: On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 10:24 -0400, Mike Holstein wrote: Ralph, im going to assume a question here. that question would be... will the ubuntustudio metapackages *require* XFCE? theres one metapackage right now called ubuntustudio-desktop. that would be the one that would pull XFCE in, and switch DE's. theres no reason why the others should do that, or need to do that, and thats a very valid point that i will keep in mind as we move forward. this question you posed also gave me a great idea. maybe we can just take the current ubuntustudio-desktop (with gnome2), leave it as-is (so there is no maintenance) rename it ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome, and leave that in place as long as gnome2 is around. in that way, a user could install the current ubuntu vanilla, and get switched to the good 'ol gnome current setup that we all know and love by running sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-destkop-gnome. this package could be around as long as ubuntu has gnome2 in the repo. i will ask how challenging that could be to implement that, unless you would like to take that on Ralph? it would be great if you could help us constructively resolve some of these issues users are having with this UI switch. A good idea to provide 2 different desktop meta packages, if somebody has the time and knowledge to maintain the GNOME package. I might have some time to contribute some work, but I guess not the knowledge to help here. Resp. how could I (and perhaps other people) contribute something regarding to the DE issue? Ralf PS: Pardon? No maintenance? What's the difference between a Ubuntu vanilla GNOME and the GNOME by the Ubuntu Studio package? -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users Hi Ralf! This may be one of those huge misconceptions that the Ubuntu Studio team is vast and robust. Alas, neither presumptions are correct sadly. The Ubuntu Studio team does not maintain any GNOME packages. We maintain a ubuntustudio- package that uses gconf settings to change GNOME settings. I hope this helps. Cheers, ScottL -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
I don't know if this helps but I first tried xfce at Mint 5. To be honest, the only difference I really noticed was that it was faster than gnome. Otherwise - apart from the xfce logo, there seemed little or no discernable difference. I had an old machine back then and so my only thought is that if xfce is faster on an old machine, how much faster on a new one? I say try it. Whats to lose? If the community try and like, it stays, if they try and don't like then the developers have a choice. Look at main stream ubuntu with this ghastly unity desktop. I will put money that ubuntu 11.10 reverts to gnome. This idea of xfce as the DE for studio works for me because Ive used xfce before. So based on experience this is a welcome change for me. People generally do not like change but sometimes, just as in biological evolution, Linux must adapt to ever changing market environments in order to keep up and survive. Xfce could be a great idea but unless one tries it and has first hand experience, I struggle to see any comment as constructive. There are xfce editions of various distros out there, it costs one disc to run an OS (without installing) and to see first hand how good xfce is. Remembering of course that it wont be as fast from the disk. Try it, then post? Anthony Hall. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Scott Lavender scottalaven...@gmail.comwrote: I apologize for singling out this post, but... On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:37 AM, aYo Binitie ayobini...@gmail.com wrote: XFCE - I have no idea about but it was super we would not be all having these rants. aYo -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users I think this is a very, very poor argument. But iyou are not alone however. I haven't read any rants in this thread (well, maybe one) but I have seen a lot of ignorant whinging. There has been a vocal minority that asked, Why change from GNOME 2? or some other variant of that statement. But it appears that these people neither understand why we made a decision nor have any understanding of XFCE and how similar it is to GNOME 2. So, the rants are ignorant protestations about change. This has no reflection on XFCE. I challenge you (not just you aYo, but everyone) who thinks XFCE isn't super or good or isn't GNOME 2 to actually try it. Try it for a week. A day, even. If someone can use XFCE and then provide a good fact based argument for not using XFCE *OR* can provide a viable alternative we would very much like to hear them. I mean that sincerely. What I don't like, appreciate, or find useful is ignorant whinging without providing any reasons, facts, or alternatives. ScottL -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Hi Scott, Your opinions are noted and they are valid. I never claimed that XFCE was no good - just that I had never used it and there were probably good reasons why it was second best to Gnome2. Having said that considering the fact that going forward there is a need for a new desktop to be adopted - I acquiese to the fact that you - the UbuntuStudio team have done your due-diligence and have found this the sensible and viable option. I will take you up on your suggestion and try Xubuntu to see for myself the possibilities therein. I have converted the entire Flash development (and IT ) team in my Agency to the Ubuntuside thus my interest in this is tremendous. aYo On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Scott Lavender scottalaven...@gmail.comwrote: I apologize for singling out this post, but... On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:37 AM, aYo Binitie ayobini...@gmail.com wrote: XFCE - I have no idea about but it was super we would not be all having these rants. aYo -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users I think this is a very, very poor argument. But iyou are not alone however. I haven't read any rants in this thread (well, maybe one) but I have seen a lot of ignorant whinging. There has been a vocal minority that asked, Why change from GNOME 2? or some other variant of that statement. But it appears that these people neither understand why we made a decision nor have any understanding of XFCE and how similar it is to GNOME 2. So, the rants are ignorant protestations about change. This has no reflection on XFCE. I challenge you (not just you aYo, but everyone) who thinks XFCE isn't super or good or isn't GNOME 2 to actually try it. Try it for a week. A day, even. If someone can use XFCE and then provide a good fact based argument for not using XFCE *OR* can provide a viable alternative we would very much like to hear them. I mean that sincerely. What I don't like, appreciate, or find useful is ignorant whinging without providing any reasons, facts, or alternatives. ScottL -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
For those who hd wanted to try compatibility mode in Gnome3. It's in: System Settings-System Info-Graphics When its enabled you have what should be a pretty standard Gnome experience minus some of the tweakable options. Mike -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Ralf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: A good idea to provide 2 different desktop meta packages, if somebody has the time and knowledge to maintain the GNOME package. I might have some time to contribute some work, but I guess not the knowledge to help here. Resp. how could I (and perhaps other people) contribute something regarding to the DE issue? Ralf thanks for the interest Ralph. the team could use your help. we have testing/planning always on going that any not-technical user could help with (i am that kind of user with no coding skills). i can only speak for my process for brainstorming the continued gnome2 support idea. i went to the IRC, pinged team lead Scott Lavendar (ScottL) and actually havent had a chance to talk to him about it yet. then, i sent an email to the ubuntustudio-devel list asking briefly 'is this even possible' and i had a chat on the IRC with user 'ailo' about it. moving forward from there will depend on what ScottL says when we catch up later today. its really up to you how you want to get involved in these changes. if you would like to schedule some time on the IRC, i can make a 30 minute window available for you and i to hang and communicate in the -devel channel. i really appreciate this attitude. we, as a community (especially the ubuntustudio community) need to adopt an attitude 'if its broke, fix it'. there are simple things that you and i as non-technical users can do such as documentation, wiki updating, advocacy and meeting planning. let me know when you would like to meet up on the IRC. thats really where realtime discussion and collaboration happens. thanks -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ http://wnclug.ourproject.org/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Am 16.05.2011 08:43, schrieb aYo Binitie: Hi Scott, Your opinions are noted and they are valid. I never claimed that XFCE was no good - just that I had never used it and there were probably good reasons why it was second best to Gnome2. I assure you and everyone who has reservations towards XFCE: it is quite the same as Gnome2 and can be configured to mimic it near to 99%. It even offers some features, Gnome has dropped like switching Desktops with the mouse wheel on any place on the desktop and some more options for configuration. I use Gnome in Ubuntu and XFCE on Fedora on a dayly basis and I hardly notice the differnces (there are some inconveniences in Gnome, I can feel 1-2 times per day...) Plus: Gnome2, XFCE, KDE have more or less the same basic features that are the ones the user is confronted frequently. All these full-featured desktops can be configured to mimic each other in a way that no user without a lot of experience will notice the differences. All of them can have a hierarchical menu in the upper left corner, desktop icons, panels, a pager and a tray. And they suppport each others panel-applets or have similar applets as their siblings. I really think, that nobody, who has used Gnome2 the way a typical normal user uses a desktop will be apalled by XFCE. best regs HZN Having said that considering the fact that going forward there is a need for a new desktop to be adopted - I acquiese to the fact that you - the UbuntuStudio team have done your due-diligence and have found this the sensible and viable option. I will take you up on your suggestion and try Xubuntu to see for myself the possibilities therein. I have converted the entire Flash development (and IT ) team in my Agency to the Ubuntuside thus my interest in this is tremendous. aYo On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Scott Lavenderscottalaven...@gmail.comwrote: I apologize for singling out this post, but... On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:37 AM, aYo Binitieayobini...@gmail.com wrote: XFCE - I have no idea about but it was super we would not be all having these rants. aYo -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users I think this is a very, very poor argument. But iyou are not alone however. I haven't read any rants in this thread (well, maybe one) but I have seen a lot of ignorant whinging. There has been a vocal minority that asked, Why change from GNOME 2? or some other variant of that statement. But it appears that these people neither understand why we made a decision nor have any understanding of XFCE and how similar it is to GNOME 2. So, the rants are ignorant protestations about change. This has no reflection on XFCE. I challenge you (not just you aYo, but everyone) who thinks XFCE isn't super or good or isn't GNOME 2 to actually try it. Try it for a week. A day, even. If someone can use XFCE and then provide a good fact based argument for not using XFCE *OR* can provide a viable alternative we would very much like to hear them. I mean that sincerely. What I don't like, appreciate, or find useful is ignorant whinging without providing any reasons, facts, or alternatives. ScottL -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Hartmut Noack zettber...@linuxuse.dewrote: Am 16.05.2011 08:43, schrieb aYo Binitie: Hi Scott, Your opinions are noted and they are valid. I never claimed that XFCE was no good - just that I had never used it and there were probably good reasons why it was second best to Gnome2. I assure you and everyone who has reservations towards XFCE: it is quite the same as Gnome2 and can be configured to mimic it near to 99%. It even offers some features, Gnome has dropped like switching Desktops with the mouse wheel on any place on the desktop and some more options for configuration. I use Gnome in Ubuntu and XFCE on Fedora on a dayly basis and I hardly notice the differnces (there are some inconveniences in Gnome, I can feel 1-2 times per day...) Plus: Gnome2, XFCE, KDE have more or less the same basic features that are the ones the user is confronted frequently. All these full-featured desktops can be configured to mimic each other in a way that no user without a lot of experience will notice the differences. All of them can have a hierarchical menu in the upper left corner, desktop icons, panels, a pager and a tray. And they suppport each others panel-applets or have similar applets as their siblings. I really think, that nobody, who has used Gnome2 the way a typical normal user uses a desktop will be apalled by XFCE. best regs HZN Having said that considering the fact that going forward there is a need for a new desktop to be adopted - I acquiese to the fact that you - the UbuntuStudio team have done your due-diligence and have found this the sensible and viable option. I will take you up on your suggestion and try Xubuntu to see for myself the possibilities therein. I have converted the entire Flash development (and IT ) team in my Agency to the Ubuntuside thus my interest in this is tremendous. aYo On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Scott Lavenderscottalaven...@gmail.com wrote: I apologize for singling out this post, but... On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:37 AM, aYo Binitieayobini...@gmail.com wrote: XFCE - I have no idea about but it was super we would not be all having these rants. aYo -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users I think this is a very, very poor argument. But iyou are not alone however. I haven't read any rants in this thread (well, maybe one) but I have seen a lot of ignorant whinging. There has been a vocal minority that asked, Why change from GNOME 2? or some other variant of that statement. But it appears that these people neither understand why we made a decision nor have any understanding of XFCE and how similar it is to GNOME 2. So, the rants are ignorant protestations about change. This has no reflection on XFCE. I challenge you (not just you aYo, but everyone) who thinks XFCE isn't super or good or isn't GNOME 2 to actually try it. Try it for a week. A day, even. If someone can use XFCE and then provide a good fact based argument for not using XFCE *OR* can provide a viable alternative we would very much like to hear them. I mean that sincerely. What I don't like, appreciate, or find useful is ignorant whinging without providing any reasons, facts, or alternatives. ScottL -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users Now, why is this a good thing? All this talk about switching DE for stability on the one hand but it's really about reverting to old stuff, isn't it?, and how long can the community keep this up?, tested out Gnome 3 last night a bit and I found it rather nice, I really can't see what all the fuss is about. I've always thought about linux as among the leading in osdevelopment, and especially US(the switch to an rt-kernel made a huge difference in performance on my stationary) and I think the community should embrace the future instead of trying to maintain things that probably has been dropped for a reason. Also, as someone said earlier, if it hasn't been done it may not be a bad thing talking a bit about to whom US is supposed to be for either, I have nothing to back this up but in my own experience, and I don't think I'm the only one to see this, I think Ubuntu is getting more OSX like and maybe that should be embraced as well. Many artists/producers DO use mac's and wouldn't this open up for a larger group of potential users? -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:37 PM, Mike Holstein mikeh...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Robert Klaar nim.b...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with this, the only argument I've heard so far is that it's different and sure, installed 11.04(with unity) to my laptop I use for backup a few days ago and it is different but nothing that you won't get used to, in some ways I like it even better, for one it's layout seems a bit more simplistic than I find standard gnome-based systems to be. Even though this might change workflow for some, the cons of switching to a fairly less supported DE in return for this, are probably worse. If there is one thing I've learned in these years using linux is to go with the mainstream and use what people use most, not doing so might land you in a position where something as basic, for a musician, as getting your soundcard to work seem hopeless due to lack of support. The main strength in Ubuntu, especially, has always been the vast number of people who use it, this is also my main reason for using US, because it's basically Ubuntu, with a lot of useful stuff added to it, forking of now might cut you out of the circle in the future. Even though XFCE is fairly similar to gnome, when gnome changes and Ubuntu with it so will the knowledge built up by it's vast community and I think US would be wise to stay as close as possible to it, and even though switching DE's is not really that drastic, changing something like this might make it a lot more harder for an artist or a producer etc., with little computer experience, solving problems as the solution found in the forums might not be enough. Now, this is not a problem for most people who use linux since you get used to these things after a while switching distro's aso. and in general you get better at it but not everyone does this, especially not your typical artist type, that's why many musicians prefer mac's. And that's what most people are like, I think it's a bad idea to limit US only to people with experience in linux and even though switching DE's might not do this now, it sets a path towards it. robert, i for one really appreciate your well thought out statements. you have some very valid points. one of which i would like to bring up for debate here. do you feel like moving from gnome2 to gnome3 is a more drastic change than moving from gnome2 to XFCE? that was one of the selling points of this move. even though we will be moving from the mainstream ubuntu workflow, we feil like this move to XFCE would actually be *less* disruptive than moving to unity or gnome3 (from gnome2). another selling point was also that we feel XFCE is very well supported, and well developed. the hardware support will always be the same as buntu though. a kernel update will be more likely to break functionality than the UI change. however, i dont feel like we should *not* upgrade the kernel. i think most linux users expect possible changes in support when going to a newer kernel version. ... Well, either way you risk loosing supporters but in my opinion it's much worse to risk being outdated than getting a bit of disruption for some time(and I can't see how this can get so disruptive to a serious producer/artist that it get's such a big problem, but this is just my opinion). ...this debate really comes down to the basic question, 'what is ubuntustudio doing?'. whos is it for. are we attracting new users? studio engineers? video professionals?. this is something we are constantly trying to be more clear about. right now, a move to XFCE has the intention of being the least disruptive change, while maintaining a similar workflow, and also pooling our resources with the xubuntu team. adopting early hopefully means that by the next LTS (12.04), things will be nice and solid and working well. if we are to target current ubuntu users, then unity would be the way to go. if we are to target OSX users or audio professionals, then the current plan to use XFCE with the AWN dock actually might be the best idea. XFCE+AWN has a very OSX look and feel (much more so that the current ubuntutsudio) which i think is arguably a good improvement, and easily facilitates some nice 'workflow' ideas that scott lavender has proposed. what do you think would be a target audience? and how to best implement a DE for them? Well, either way the system seems to go towards a more OSX like feeling, however I can't help but like the inovative style of Gnome 3, atm. I'm running 10.10 with cairodock(which for some reason worked better than awn for me, also, to me, it's visually more appealing) and it feels a lot like OSX. This being said, I'm not a huge fan of OSX myself, obviously I found it rather locked and that's one of the reasons why I'm keeping my linux-based system over switching to a mac, also I don't think we should be locked into thinking that OSX is supposed to be the ultimate goal, in my opinion,
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sat, 2011-05-14 at 07:26 -0500, Scott Lavender wrote: I suggest reading my blog [1] for those interested in the rationale behind the switch as it details some of the events and decisions that lead up to choosing XFCE. Cheers, ScottL [1] http://dullass.blogspot.com/2011/05/ubuntu-studio-moving-to-xfce.html I never tested Unity or GNOME3. XFCE is my favourite if there should be the need to switch the DE, but I guess I'll test GNOME3 or Unity, when it's needed first. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sat, 2011-05-14 at 10:13 -0500, Kenneth Koym wrote: At age 72 I don't have time for bewildering experiences. Must personally try to work my life plan. No, I think XFCE Studio stinks. I'll try to keep GNOME2 for my DAWs as long as possible. I did use XFCE, it's good, but I anyway switched back to the much better GNOME. Btw. I don't switch the distro version every half year, IMO it's impossible to provide a completely upgraded DAW every half year that is really stable. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sat, 2011-05-14 at 11:44 -0500, Scott Lavender wrote: lxde, xfce Oops, I confused LXDE with XFCE, pardon. Both are ok, but IIRC I didn't prefer XFCE, it was LXDE. However, both can't replace GNOME. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Thanks for the reply - all these changes really put me on the spot. I have for the first time in 4 years not been in a race to install a new Ubuntu distro. I detest Unity and even UbuntuStudio Natty which sensibly has kept GNome 2 is not as fast as UbuntuStudio Meerkat. No compiz in Gnome3 means Gnome3 is a NO for me. I really can not imagine my workflow without it. It has been a defining factor in the slick workflow for UStudio. XFCE - I have no idea about but it was super we would not be all having these rants. I fear I will be sticking to 10.10 - truly a perfect 10 for the foreseeable future. The future for the moment looks very bleak - It seems we are now having our VISTA moment in Linux. This is a real shame after all the gains Ubuntu UbuntuStudio have made in the last few years aYo On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Mike Holstein mikeh...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:43 AM, aYo Binitie ayobini...@gmail.com wrote: Why the change? I love gnome and its been great so far hey aYo, the change is because gnome2, (the current gnome setup that we all love, and has been great so far) is not going to be around much longer... gnome2 is end of live... check out gnome3 and see what you think... i think XFCE is more like gnome2 than gnome3 is... A On 14 May 2011 06:24, Ralf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: The wild enthusiasm when using XFCE IMO quickly will switch to disillusion. You should stay at GNOME. Anyway, XFCE is a good choice compared with similar light weighted environments, such as e.g. e17. What are the reasons to switch the WM/DE? There's a win for the performance etc. when using Ion, a frame based environment, but that causes issues regarding to windows opened by some apps. There's no noticeable win when using Fluxbox, e17, XFCE etc., but a lot of PITA. IMO GNOME is the best choice for a DAW. 2 Cents, Ralf -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ http://wnclug.ourproject.org/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 4:37 AM, aYo Binitie ayobini...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the reply - all these changes really put me on the spot. I have for the first time in 4 years not been in a race to install a new Ubuntu distro. I detest Unity and even UbuntuStudio Natty which sensibly has kept GNome 2 is not as fast as UbuntuStudio Meerkat. No compiz in Gnome3 means Gnome3 is a NO for me. I really can not imagine my workflow without it. It has been a defining factor in the slick workflow for UStudio. XFCE - I have no idea about but it was super we would not be all having these rants. I fear I will be sticking to 10.10 - truly a perfect 10 for the foreseeable future. The future for the moment looks very bleak - It seems we are now having our VISTA moment in Linux. This is a real shame after all the gains Ubuntu UbuntuStudio have made in the last few years aYo hey aYo, personally, i have been sticking to 10.04 on my production machine, but i maintain early alpha releases these days for testing purposes. would you like for me to help you find bugs relating to your hardware and 11.04? also, you can check out xubuntu live, or the above mentioned puredyne to see XFCE in action so you can have an informed opinion about the UI change. On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Mike Holstein mikeh...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:43 AM, aYo Binitie ayobini...@gmail.comwrote: Why the change? I love gnome and its been great so far hey aYo, the change is because gnome2, (the current gnome setup that we all love, and has been great so far) is not going to be around much longer... gnome2 is end of live... check out gnome3 and see what you think... i think XFCE is more like gnome2 than gnome3 is... A On 14 May 2011 06:24, Ralf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: The wild enthusiasm when using XFCE IMO quickly will switch to disillusion. You should stay at GNOME. Anyway, XFCE is a good choice compared with similar light weighted environments, such as e.g. e17. What are the reasons to switch the WM/DE? There's a win for the performance etc. when using Ion, a frame based environment, but that causes issues regarding to windows opened by some apps. There's no noticeable win when using Fluxbox, e17, XFCE etc., but a lot of PITA. IMO GNOME is the best choice for a DAW. 2 Cents, Ralf -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ http://wnclug.ourproject.org/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ http://wnclug.ourproject.org/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
I apologize for singling out this post, but... On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:37 AM, aYo Binitie ayobini...@gmail.com wrote: XFCE - I have no idea about but it was super we would not be all having these rants. aYo -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users I think this is a very, very poor argument. But iyou are not alone however. I haven't read any rants in this thread (well, maybe one) but I have seen a lot of ignorant whinging. There has been a vocal minority that asked, Why change from GNOME 2? or some other variant of that statement. But it appears that these people neither understand why we made a decision nor have any understanding of XFCE and how similar it is to GNOME 2. So, the rants are ignorant protestations about change. This has no reflection on XFCE. I challenge you (not just you aYo, but everyone) who thinks XFCE isn't super or good or isn't GNOME 2 to actually try it. Try it for a week. A day, even. If someone can use XFCE and then provide a good fact based argument for not using XFCE *OR* can provide a viable alternative we would very much like to hear them. I mean that sincerely. What I don't like, appreciate, or find useful is ignorant whinging without providing any reasons, facts, or alternatives. ScottL -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 11:14 -0500, Scott Lavender wrote: I apologize for singling out this post, but... On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:37 AM, aYo Binitie ayobini...@gmail.com I challenge you (not just you aYo, but everyone) who thinks XFCE isn't super or good or isn't GNOME 2 to actually try it. Try it for a week. A day, even. Umm, maybe the same could be said for Gnome3... Rather than dump it (or Unity which will apparently be the default Ubuntu desktop) for yet another DE which itself has pros and cons. Being direct, I haven't seen a viable argument yet for why a change is necessary. Except perhaps that some folks don't like Gnome3. And sorry, that's not a whine. Its me stating the truth as I see it. Mike -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Again with Gnome 3??? I think people doesnt understand that moving to Gnome 3 is A BIG CHANGE!!! The ui is completely diferent, the workflow is diferent. Gnome 3 is made to use full screen widows. Its very new, no much teaking is possible, at least for now. XFCE is a PROVEN, STABLE and SIMILAR Desktop enviroment. And on top of all, there is already a Ubuntu derivative with XFCE. If this is not enough for people to understand, well try each one for 2 3 weeks and then say what things dont like on XFCE for a STUDIO workflow. 2011/5/15 Michael Dickson mike.dick...@rivendellnh.com: On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 11:14 -0500, Scott Lavender wrote: I apologize for singling out this post, but... On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:37 AM, aYo Binitie ayobini...@gmail.com I challenge you (not just you aYo, but everyone) who thinks XFCE isn't super or good or isn't GNOME 2 to actually try it. Try it for a week. A day, even. Umm, maybe the same could be said for Gnome3... Rather than dump it (or Unity which will apparently be the default Ubuntu desktop) for yet another DE which itself has pros and cons. Being direct, I haven't seen a viable argument yet for why a change is necessary. Except perhaps that some folks don't like Gnome3. And sorry, that's not a whine. Its me stating the truth as I see it. Mike -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Fagote / Contrafagote Bassoon / Contra-bassoon http://myspace.com/ricardolameiro -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Umm, maybe the same could be said for Gnome3... Rather than dump it (or Unity which will apparently be the default Ubuntu desktop) for yet another DE which itself has pros and cons. Being direct, I haven't seen a viable argument yet for why a change is necessary. Except perhaps that some folks don't like Gnome3. And sorry, that's not a whine. Its me stating the truth as I see it. Mike hey mike check out gnome3 here http://www.gnome3.org/tryit.html and see what you think. assuming gnome3 is an acceptable DE for ubuntustudio, it cannot be disputed that it is a drastic change from gnome2, and its arguable that XFCE is actually more like gnome2 than gnome3 is. i have been hanging out in the #gnome channel on freenode looking into what 'compatibility mode' is in gnome3, and how to get it running, and if it is indeed the same as gnome3, and if it is going to be part of gnome3 in the long term. to quote from the IRC channel 'gnome2 is dead'. that being said, feel free to actually go and check out gnome3 for yourself, and report on its functionality. thanks -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ http://wnclug.ourproject.org/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Michael Dickson mike.dick...@rivendellnh.com wrote: On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 11:14 -0500, Scott Lavender wrote: I apologize for singling out this post, but... On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:37 AM, aYo Binitie ayobini...@gmail.com I challenge you (not just you aYo, but everyone) who thinks XFCE isn't super or good or isn't GNOME 2 to actually try it. Try it for a week. A day, even. Umm, maybe the same could be said for Gnome3... Rather than dump it (or Unity which will apparently be the default Ubuntu desktop) for yet another DE which itself has pros and cons. Being direct, I haven't seen a viable argument yet for why a change is necessary. Except perhaps that some folks don't like Gnome3. And sorry, that's not a whine. Its me stating the truth as I see it. Mike -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users Thank you for being direct Michael. I do apologize if I seem rude, however the repetitive Why leave GNOME 2 for XFCE? This is bad. without given any reason has begun to irritate. I do appreciate those who have brought specific concerns about XFCE, but unfortunately those have been a very small minority. Let's start with the current DE, GNOME panel or GNOME 2.X. With the release of GNOME 3 we expect that GNOME 2 will see stagnated development and eventually little to no support/maintenance. Therefore, in the interest of sustainability we need to use a different DE. Numerous people have tried both Unity and GNOME 3, including several team members, and most felt the work flow provided was not conducive to studio work. I was also among that group. I am aware of only one person (using Unity) that directly reported to the contrary. XFCE was chosen because we felt it provides the closest functionality as GNOME panel. We expect it to provide users the same fundamental usability by default with only slight, topical differences. That is the logic of the argument that has been provided already. Without intending to sound peckish, do you find this agrument not viable? Again, that isn't meant to be confrontational, sarcastic, etc. That is a sincere question. If you do not find it viable then I welcome your opinion on it. As an aside, I find GNOME 3 incredible and innovative and will be switching non-audio computer to it (albeit a Fedora version because it is better integrated) very shortly after I complete other tasks. This will end up being my default computer for all non-audio items. I find Unity provides a similar environment, but it seems to provide slightly less (and more buggy) functionality at this time than GNOME 3. Although I want to commend those who did the work on it for accomplishing so much in a very, very short time. Regards, ScottL -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Michael Dickson mike.dick...@rivendellnh.com wrote: On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 11:14 -0500, Scott Lavender wrote: I apologize for singling out this post, but... On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:37 AM, aYo Binitie ayobini...@gmail.com I challenge you (not just you aYo, but everyone) who thinks XFCE isn't super or good or isn't GNOME 2 to actually try it. Try it for a week. A day, even. Umm, maybe the same could be said for Gnome3... Rather than dump it (or Unity which will apparently be the default Ubuntu desktop) for yet another DE which itself has pros and cons. Being direct, I haven't seen a viable argument yet for why a change is necessary. Except perhaps that some folks don't like Gnome3. And sorry, that's not a whine. Its me stating the truth as I see it. Mike -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users I agree with this, the only argument I've heard so far is that it's different and sure, installed 11.04(with unity) to my laptop I use for backup a few days ago and it is different but nothing that you won't get used to, in some ways I like it even better, for one it's layout seems a bit more simplistic than I find standard gnome-based systems to be. Even though this might change workflow for some, the cons of switching to a fairly less supported DE in return for this, are probably worse. If there is one thing I've learned in these years using linux is to go with the mainstream and use what people use most, not doing so might land you in a position where something as basic, for a musician, as getting your soundcard to work seem hopeless due to lack of support. The main strength in Ubuntu, especially, has always been the vast number of people who use it, this is also my main reason for using US, because it's basically Ubuntu, with a lot of useful stuff added to it, forking of now might cut you out of the circle in the future. Even though XFCE is fairly similar to gnome, when gnome changes and Ubuntu with it so will the knowledge built up by it's vast community and I think US would be wise to stay as close as possible to it, and even though switching DE's is not really that drastic, changing something like this might make it a lot more harder for an artist or a producer etc., with little computer experience, solving problems as the solution found in the forums might not be enough. Now, this is not a problem for most people who use linux since you get used to these things after a while switching distro's aso. and in general you get better at it but not everyone does this, especially not your typical artist type, that's why many musicians prefer mac's. And that's what most people are like, I think it's a bad idea to limit US only to people with experience in linux and even though switching DE's might not do this now, it sets a path towards it. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
The application menu drop down list is very similar to xubuntu's. I don't mind xubuntu anyway, i've used it on a laptop before and it's not going to be a drastic change from 10.04 UI imo lol On May 15, 2011 1:14 PM, Ricardo Lameiro ricardolame...@gmail.com wrote: Again with Gnome 3??? I think people doesnt understand that moving to Gnome 3 is A BIG CHANGE!!! The ui is completely diferent, the workflow is diferent. Gnome 3 is made to use full screen widows. Its very new, no much teaking is possible, at least for now. XFCE is a PROVEN, STABLE and SIMILAR Desktop enviroment. And on top of all, there is already a Ubuntu derivative with XFCE. If this is not enough for people to understand, well try each one for 2 3 weeks and then say what things dont like on XFCE for a STUDIO workflow. 2011/5/15 Michael Dickson mike.dick...@rivendellnh.com: On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 11:14 -0500, Scott Lavender wrote: I apologize for singling out this post, but... On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:37 AM, aYo Binitie ayobini...@gmail.com I challenge you (not just you aYo, but everyone) who thinks XFCE isn't super or good or isn't GNOME 2 to actually try it. Try it for a week. A day, even. Umm, maybe the same could be said for Gnome3... Rather than dump it (or Unity which will apparently be the default Ubuntu desktop) for yet another DE which itself has pros and cons. Being direct, I haven't seen a viable argument yet for why a change is necessary. Except perhaps that some folks don't like Gnome3. And sorry, that's not a whine. Its me stating the truth as I see it. Mike -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Fagote / Contrafagote Bassoon / Contra-bassoon http://myspace.com/ricardolameiro -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Robert Klaar nim.b...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with this, the only argument I've heard so far is that it's different and sure, installed 11.04(with unity) to my laptop I use for backup a few days ago and it is different but nothing that you won't get used to, in some ways I like it even better, for one it's layout seems a bit more simplistic than I find standard gnome-based systems to be. Even though this might change workflow for some, the cons of switching to a fairly less supported DE in return for this, are probably worse. If there is one thing I've learned in these years using linux is to go with the mainstream and use what people use most, not doing so might land you in a position where something as basic, for a musician, as getting your soundcard to work seem hopeless due to lack of support. The main strength in Ubuntu, especially, has always been the vast number of people who use it, this is also my main reason for using US, because it's basically Ubuntu, with a lot of useful stuff added to it, forking of now might cut you out of the circle in the future. Even though XFCE is fairly similar to gnome, when gnome changes and Ubuntu with it so will the knowledge built up by it's vast community and I think US would be wise to stay as close as possible to it, and even though switching DE's is not really that drastic, changing something like this might make it a lot more harder for an artist or a producer etc., with little computer experience, solving problems as the solution found in the forums might not be enough. Now, this is not a problem for most people who use linux since you get used to these things after a while switching distro's aso. and in general you get better at it but not everyone does this, especially not your typical artist type, that's why many musicians prefer mac's. And that's what most people are like, I think it's a bad idea to limit US only to people with experience in linux and even though switching DE's might not do this now, it sets a path towards it. robert, i for one really appreciate your well thought out statements. you have some very valid points. one of which i would like to bring up for debate here. do you feel like moving from gnome2 to gnome3 is a more drastic change than moving from gnome2 to XFCE? that was one of the selling points of this move. even though we will be moving from the mainstream ubuntu workflow, we feil like this move to XFCE would actually be *less* disruptive than moving to unity or gnome3 (from gnome2). another selling point was also that we feel XFCE is very well supported, and well developed. the hardware support will always be the same as buntu though. a kernel update will be more likely to break functionality than the UI change. however, i dont feel like we should *not* upgrade the kernel. i think most linux users expect possible changes in support when going to a newer kernel version. this debate really comes down to the basic question, 'what is ubuntustudio doing?'. whos is it for. are we attracting new users? studio engineers? video professionals?. this is something we are constantly trying to be more clear about. right now, a move to XFCE has the intention of being the least disruptive change, while maintaining a similar workflow, and also pooling our resources with the xubuntu team. adopting early hopefully means that by the next LTS (12.04), things will be nice and solid and working well. if we are to target current ubuntu users, then unity would be the way to go. if we are to target OSX users or audio professionals, then the current plan to use XFCE with the AWN dock actually might be the best idea. XFCE+AWN has a very OSX look and feel (much more so that the current ubuntutsudio) which i think is arguably a good improvement, and easily facilitates some nice 'workflow' ideas that scott lavender has proposed. what do you think would be a target audience? and how to best implement a DE for them? keep it coming robert. i feel like this is the kind of educated exchange that could really help shape the future of ubuntustudio. thank you for your attention. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ http://wnclug.ourproject.org/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Am 15.05.2011 18:36, schrieb Michael Dickson: On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 11:14 -0500, Scott Lavender wrote: I apologize for singling out this post, but... On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:37 AM, aYo Binitieayobini...@gmail.com I challenge you (not just you aYo, but everyone) who thinks XFCE isn't super or good or isn't GNOME 2 to actually try it. Try it for a week. A day, even. Umm, maybe the same could be said for Gnome3... Rather than dump it (or Unity which will apparently be the default Ubuntu desktop) for yet another DE which itself has pros and cons. Being direct, I haven't seen a viable argument yet for why a change is necessary. Except perhaps that some folks don't like Gnome3. I had a conversation whith a Gnome-evangelist at the Linuxtag yesterday and I assure you: Gnome3 would be a major break of concept compared to Ubustudio with Gnome2. XFCE is indeed the best choice available if Ubuntu Studio shall have a user interface as known from the versions made with Gnome2. So in short: I think Scott is right, the change to XFCE is wise, 9 out of 10 users will like it... HZN And sorry, that's not a whine. Its me stating the truth as I see it. Mike -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 13:17 -0400, Mike Holstein wrote: check out gnome3 here http://www.gnome3.org/tryit.html and see what you think. assuming gnome3 is an acceptable DE for ubuntustudio, it cannot be disputed that it is a drastic change from gnome2, and its arguable that XFCE is actually more like gnome2 than gnome3 is. i have been hanging out in the #gnome channel on freenode looking into what 'compatibility mode' is in gnome3, and how to get it running, and if it is indeed the same as gnome3, and if it is going to be part of gnome3 in the long term. to quote from the IRC channel 'gnome2 is dead'. that being said, feel free to actually go and check out gnome3 for yourself, and report on its functionality. thanks I have actually run Gnome3. And like others I struggled with it a bit initially. But after using it for a little while I found it very nice. It is a big change however, no disputing that. I'll weigh in with this opinion. I believe Ubuntu Studio should track the default Ubuntu desktop for the release track its on. In the time frame being discussed that would actually mean Unity as I understand it. Unity has its own issues and represents a big change. But it will be the default for the platform and therefore likely have the largest user base for the DE environments supported. And that user based insures testing and stability for US. Now if someone isn't comfortable with that approach an alternative that should be available is installing the Ubuntu flavor you prefer (like XUbuntu for instance) and retrofitting packages from Studio on top of it. So no reason I cant run studio bits under XFCE. But the default should be the default for the distribution. That's my take and the argument for it. Mike -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Kenneth Koym koy...@gmail.com wrote: Whereas I've plugged away with 10.04.02 LTS - kxstudio 64 amd and saw no build up comments regarding going to xfce which I suffered with over 1.5 years with no known supporters, -what did you suffer with? using XFCE? I am a bit appalled at the sudden off course decision to suddenly jump forth with an Officially Announced boondoggle.. Good, developers made a decision. Make it work and at least talk about Here's a place to download, etc. After all, if it's official, act official. Kenneth On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Dave dv...@iinet.com.au wrote: Seems like a step in the wrong direction. From memory, that's what MythBuntu is based on. Last time I looked there was no provision for SMB shares and you had to jump through all sorts of hoops to enable it. Dave On 14/05/2011 2:48 AM, C K wrote: After various discussions, investigation and tinkering the Ubuntu Studio team have decided to re-base the project on XFCE. The team simple feel that Unity and GNOME-Shell do not fit our target audience or intended workflow. We will be working toward using a custom UI which will feature Avant Window Navigator prominently over top of XFCE. As usual, new art and packages will be introduced as well. We will also be working to ensure a smooth upgrade path for current GNOME users is possible. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ http://wnclug.ourproject.org/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Michael Dickson mike.dick...@rivendellnh.com wrote: My understanding is you get something similar to the current interface. The Gnome shell requires 3d support hence the need to have it. But no reason you cant use it if you dont like or are concerned about performance of the new interface. Mike thanks again mike... im loaded up my gnome3 live CD (a fedora spin i DL'd from http://www.gnome3.org/tryit.html ...im looking for 'compatibility mode'... where do i enable it? i just joined #gnome on freenode and asked as well (assuming i get a response)... if you dont mind, get in compatibility mode, and run some apps and officially report on what it is like... as far as the state of the current decision to change, its not that we dont like gnome3, we just feel that with our current knowledge of where gnome3 and unity are heading, xfce is what we need (since it is more like gnome2, and facilitates a similar workflow that we are used to, as well as being nice and light and well developed)... im interested in compatibility mode though, assuming its something that will be actively developed, and well supported, and available in the ubuntu repos... On Sat, 2011-05-14 at 17:43 -0400, Mike Holstein wrote: On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Michael Dickson mike.dick...@rivendellnh.com wrote: If you don't like the new GNOME3 interface, can't you just turn on compatibility mode? Switching to a whole new DE is a pretty radical change that's bound to have issues of its own. Mike i am interested in hearing about compatibility mode... what i am finding in google searches is a fallback compatibility mode in gnome3 that supports hardware without 3d. im not seeing that there is a compatibility mode built in to gnome3 that = gnome2. like stated before, we are being forced to switch to something even if that switch is to gnome3.. does gnome3 compatibility mode = gnome2? thanks in advance for confirming this for us. Sat, 2011-05-14 at 14:38 -0500, Scott Lavender wrote: On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 12:43 AM, aYo Binitie ayobini...@gmail.com wrote: Why the change? I love gnome and its been great so far A On 14 May 2011 06:24, Ralf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: The wild enthusiasm when using XFCE IMO quickly will switch to disillusion. You should stay at GNOME. Anyway, XFCE is a good choice compared with similar light weighted environments, such as e.g. e17. What are the reasons to switch the WM/DE? There's a win for the performance etc. when using Ion, a frame based environment, but that causes issues regarding to windows opened by some apps. There's no noticeable win when using Fluxbox, e17, XFCE etc., but a lot of PITA. IMO GNOME is the best choice for a DAW. 2 Cents, Ralf -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users GNOME 2 will no longer be supported soon in Ubuntu and is being replaced by GNOME 3 upstream. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ http://wnclug.ourproject.org/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ http://wnclug.ourproject.org/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
*Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
After various discussions, investigation and tinkering the Ubuntu Studio team have decided to re-base the project on XFCE. The team simple feel that Unity and GNOME-Shell do not fit our target audience or intended workflow. We will be working toward using a custom UI which will feature Avant Window Navigator prominently over top of XFCE. As usual, new art and packages will be introduced as well. We will also be working to ensure a smooth upgrade path for current GNOME users is possible. -- -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
C K: in lay terms what's meant by XFCE? Ken On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 11:48 AM, C K coryis...@gmail.com wrote: After various discussions, investigation and tinkering the Ubuntu Studio team have decided to re-base the project on XFCE. The team simple feel that Unity and GNOME-Shell do not fit our target audience or intended workflow. We will be working toward using a custom UI which will feature Avant Window Navigator prominently over top of XFCE. As usual, new art and packages will be introduced as well. We will also be working to ensure a smooth upgrade path for current GNOME users is possible. -- -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
*What is XFCE?* http://www.xfce.org/ *Simple explanation...* http://www.xfce.org/Instead of using the Gnome desktophttp://www.gnome.org/that Ubuntu Studio uses today, or the KDE desktop http://www.kde.org/ environment that KXStudiohttp://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Pageuses, we'll be using the Xfce desktop environment. What does that mean? Menus will look a little bit different and some of the default apps will be different. Xfce is touted to require fewer system resources than Gnome or KDE, but it can basically run all the same apps as Gnome or KDE. My personal opinion is that it may not be as visually polished as the Gnome desktop, but it is very similar, seems more stable than KDE, and what it may lack in eye candy it seems to make up for in being lightweight, fast, and reliable. I'll miss Gnome, but I think we'll all adjust quite easily because the main nuts and bolts of doing things is just like the traditional Gnome that we're all used to. *Explanation from http://www.xfce.org/about* * Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment for UNIX-like operating systems. It aims to be fast and low on system resources, while still being visually appealing and user friendly. Xfce embodies the traditional UNIX philosophy of modularity and re-usability. It consists of a number of components that provide the full functionality one can expect of a modern desktop environment. They are packaged separately and you can pick among the available packages to create the optimal personal working environment. Another priority of Xfce is adhereance to standards, specifically those defined at freedesktop.org. Xfce can be installed on several UNIX platforms. It is known to compile on Linux, NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris, Cygwin and MacOS X, on x86, PPC, Sparc, Alpha... * On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 11:58, Kenneth Koym koy...@gmail.com wrote: C K: in lay terms what's meant by XFCE? -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Seems like a step in the wrong direction. From memory, that's what MythBuntu is based on. Last time I looked there was no provision for SMB shares and you had to jump through all sorts of hoops to enable it. Dave On 14/05/2011 2:48 AM, C K wrote: After various discussions, investigation and tinkering the Ubuntu Studio team have decided to re-base the project on XFCE. The team simple feel that Unity and GNOME-Shell do not fit our target audience or intended workflow. We will be working toward using a custom UI which will feature Avant Window Navigator prominently over top of XFCE. As usual, new art and packages will be introduced as well. We will also be working to ensure a smooth upgrade path for current GNOME users is possible. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
I think the recent 4.8 release addresses the samba issue. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here. -BB (sent from mobile) On May 13, 2011 6:06 PM, Dave dv...@iinet.com.au wrote: -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: XFCE's Samba support (Formerly *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.)
In its release note, we can see XFCE 4.8 includes the samba protocol support. http://www.xfce.org/about/news/?post=1295136000 With Xfce 4.8 our users will be able to browse remote shares using a variety of protocols (SFTP, SMB, FTP and many more). The window clutter has been reduced by merging all file progress dialogs into a single one. Regards Takashi Sakamoto o-taka...@sakamocchi.jp (2011年05月14日 09:23), Brian Bergstrom wrote: I think the recent 4.8 release addresses the samba issue. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here. -BB (sent from mobile) On May 13, 2011 6:06 PM, Dave dv...@iinet.com.au mailto:dv...@iinet.com.au wrote: -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Good news! Always liked xfce - even for newer machines. The lighter the better. Can you also remove the feature that forces Libre Office. I want open office. Libre office wont open pdf's. Nice work guys. Anthony Hall. On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 5:48 PM, C K coryis...@gmail.com wrote: After various discussions, investigation and tinkering the Ubuntu Studio team have decided to re-base the project on XFCE. The team simple feel that Unity and GNOME-Shell do not fit our target audience or intended workflow. We will be working toward using a custom UI which will feature Avant Window Navigator prominently over top of XFCE. As usual, new art and packages will be introduced as well. We will also be working to ensure a smooth upgrade path for current GNOME users is possible. -- -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. *Marie Curie* -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Interesting. I've never tried opening a PDF with OpenOffice. Out of curiosity, why do you do that and which portion of OpenOffice do you use? (Writer, Calc, Draw, etc.) LibreOffice is really developing rapidly (unlike OpenOffice), and it would seem that OpenOffice will probably fade into the sunset as it seems that the developers have jumped ship and the majority are in The Document Foundation working on LibreOffice now. * * *(Perhaps it would be good to reach out to the LibreOffice developers to request that feature, if you need it. Maybe they don't realize OpenOffice has it and LibreOffice does not.)* * * On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 12:17, Anthony Hall hall.johnanth...@googlemail.com wrote: Good news! Always liked xfce - even for newer machines. The lighter the better. Can you also remove the feature that forces Libre Office. I want open office. Libre office wont open pdf's. Nice work guys. Anthony Hall. On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 5:48 PM, C K coryis...@gmail.com wrote: After various discussions, investigation and tinkering the Ubuntu Studio team have decided to re-base the project on XFCE. The team simple feel that Unity and GNOME-Shell do not fit our target audience or intended workflow. We will be working toward using a custom UI which will feature Avant Window Navigator prominently over top of XFCE. As usual, new art and packages will be introduced as well. We will also be working to ensure a smooth upgrade path for current GNOME users is possible. -- -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. *Marie Curie* -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
Hi, I'm basically welcome to the shift into XFCE. But I'm concern about the difficulties of communication for support between Ubuntu users and XFCE users. There are many differences of system application. Of cource, GNOME system application also run in XFCE but it will not be as default. I worked as a member of Ubuntu Japanese Local Community and fortunately I have never heard the decition to purge GNOME desktop environment in 11.10. My LoCO has Ubuntu's membership and GNOME deveroppers and translators but all of them have never heared the announcement of the lack in 11.10. We can see it merely in Mark Shuttleworth's weblog. In other words, it's just a his opinion, not community decision. I think the users of XFCE (Xubuntu) is not so much yet and Ubuntu Studio's users community is not so large, too. I can understand XFCE desktop environment is fit to our aim, Linux Multimedia Workstation. But we have been gaining a large support from Ubuntu users because both are based on GNOME desktop environment. I think the desicion will not be so late after we get the official announcement of the lack of GNOME environment in 11.10. In this two weeks, Ubuntu Developer Summit is held in Hungary and this summit make the desition for the form of 11.10. I suggest that our desicion should wait for the discussion in UDS and get enough information about it. Best Regards Takashi Sakamoto o-taka...@sakamocchi.jp -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
The wild enthusiasm when using XFCE IMO quickly will switch to disillusion. You should stay at GNOME. Anyway, XFCE is a good choice compared with similar light weighted environments, such as e.g. e17. What are the reasons to switch the WM/DE? There's a win for the performance etc. when using Ion, a frame based environment, but that causes issues regarding to windows opened by some apps. There's no noticeable win when using Fluxbox, e17, XFCE etc., but a lot of PITA. IMO GNOME is the best choice for a DAW. 2 Cents, Ralf -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Fri, 2011-05-13 at 20:04 -0500, Erik Rasmussen wrote: Interesting. I've never tried opening a PDF with OpenOffice. Out of curiosity, why do you do that and which portion of OpenOffice do you use? (Writer, Calc, Draw, etc.) Are we talking about DAWs? The default could be Abiword to safe resources. And for PDFs there are other apps ;). -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:23 AM, Ralf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: The wild enthusiasm when using XFCE IMO quickly will switch to disillusion. You should stay at GNOME. Anyway, XFCE is a good choice compared with similar light weighted environments, such as e.g. e17. What are the reasons to switch the WM/DE? There's a win for the performance etc. when using Ion, a frame based environment, but that causes issues regarding to windows opened by some apps. There's no noticeable win when using Fluxbox, e17, XFCE etc., but a lot of PITA. IMO GNOME is the best choice for a DAW. 2 Cents, Ralf ralf, are you talking about gnome3? gnome2 will not be disappearing from the repos anytime soon, and gnome3 will surely be in the default ubuntu repos as long as it is actively developed. the reason for the change is just that. gnome2 is not being actively developed anymore, and we (the ubuntustudio team) dont really have the kind of resources to take on something like that. i think some of what led us to XFCE is that it is gnome2-like (more so than gnome3 or unity). do you feel gnome3 is the best choice for a DAW? -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ http://wnclug.ourproject.org/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: *Official Announcement:* Ubuntu Studio is switching to XFCE.
On Sat, 2011-05-14 at 09:02 +1000, Dave wrote: Seems like a step in the wrong direction. +1 Again, XFCE is a good environment, but some things are simple when using GNOME and become a PITA for other DEs. GNOME is the best choice. Better switch to a kernel-rt than to switch the DE, if you wish to win something. Nothing that is relevant for a DAW will be faster when using XFCE. Tweaks to get better performance can be done by using the RT-patch, JACK2 from svn etc.. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
