subject:"\[videoblogging\] Re\: Porn"

 There are several feeds that have been flagged as potential adult
 content, not just the one, there are 25 of them.  But I agree that
 there should be some dialog with the producers of the feeds before
 they get flagged, that's where Mefeedia did go wrong, agreed.  The
 process is being refined.  It's not the content of the video that I
 feel needs to be indentified, it's the thumbnails.
 
 --
 ~Devlon


I wish that there were more options when submitting a feed to a site
like Mefeedia.  Many sites ask whether your vlog is explicit or
contains adult content but that's where I believe they're wrong.  

What would be nice is if the sites would provide markers indicating
the rating level of content similar to Hollywood films (G, PG-13,
PG-16, R, X).  There's nothing I hate more than sitting in front of
the computer wondering whether I should label myself as adult or for
everyone.  When submitting a feed, there should be a drop down list of
options similar to the ratings listed above.  Those ratings should
then show up as a label when people are browsing through the vlogs.  

Until there is some way to completely block over-18 content from
children, I believe this is a good way to rate things.  I wonder if
there is some way to make people registering for an account to enter
their birthday and to program the site to allow content only within
their age group.  If they accept your terms and conditions saying they
have given their true age and information, the company providing the
content would not be at fault if a child registers as an adult.

Kitka

vlog- http://www.kitkast.com/
blog- http://www.mskitka.com/







 
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

On 1/10/06, Ms. Kitka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I wish that there were more options when submitting a feed to a site
  like Mefeedia.  Many sites ask whether your vlog is explicit or
  contains adult content but that's where I believe they're wrong.

  What would be nice is if the sites would provide markers indicating
  the rating level of content similar to Hollywood films (G, PG-13,
  PG-16, R, X).  There's nothing I hate more than sitting in front of
  the computer wondering whether I should label myself as adult or for
  everyone.  When submitting a feed, there should be a drop down list of
  options similar to the ratings listed above.  Those ratings should
  then show up as a label when people are browsing through the vlogs.

This is a good idea.  It would be great if the RSS feed itself could
be tagged with something to indcate the intended audience's age.


  Until there is some way to completely block over-18 content from
  children, I believe this is a good way to rate things.  I wonder if
  there is some way to make people registering for an account to enter
  their birthday and to program the site to allow content only within
  their age group.  If they accept your terms and conditions saying they
  have given their true age and information, the company providing the
  content would not be at fault if a child registers as an adult.

It's not only children that are the concern as I see it since I do
beleive it's the parents' responsibility to govern and educate their
children.  It's also where a person might be viewing the directory,
etc.


  Kitka

  vlog- http://www.kitkast.com/
  blog- http://www.mskitka.com/








  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


  Visit your group videoblogging on the web.

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

  



--
~Devlon
Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com
Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com

http://mefeedia.com -OR- http://mefeedia.com/blog


 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Enric

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Philip Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 My feed is one of the ones that has been flagged as adult content.  
 I'm OK with that.
 
 Seems to me, as long as you're the one who's hosting the party, you  
 should be allowed to set the dress code.
 

I agree.

  -- Enric

 
   I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast
 
 Do you have link to the podcast you speak of?
 
 --
 xo philip
 http://swordfight.org
 http://destroyhotaction.com








 
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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Bill Streeter

I would say that you should consult with the porn site owners and 
get their input. I wouldn't think that they would want their stuff 
accessed by kids any more than you do. 

I think Richards biggest issue seemed to be that MeFeedia seemed to 
arbitrarily pick his feed out for labeling without consulting with 
him first. A little communication can go a long way. He's a long 
time member of this community and has contributed a lot to it. 

I think on solution to the problem could be just smarter directory 
structure (not easy I know) that makes sure that people see what 
they want to see without censoring the content producers or creating 
adult ghetto categories. 

Bill Streeter
LO-FI SAINT LOUIS
www.lofistl.com



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 the first porn sites were added to vlogdir.com last week.
 that prompted me to add an Adult Content category.
 
 i can add a custom wrapper on that category to do a number of 
things... such
 as warnings, agreements and so-called age check, access 
restriction until a
 request is made to gain access, or do nothing (current status).
 
 i just have not made a final decision yet.  i think it may depend 
on the
 type of porn site... the ones added to vlogdir.com were typical 
porn sites
 with a front being a videoblog... as a teaser... which lead you 
into joining
 as a member etc
 other sites may just be adult content, some porny stuff, but not 
that
 typical porn network concept.
 
 too busy to put effort into any one approach here... but soon i 
will make
 some sort of adjustment WITHOUT censoring honest works.
 this may include 'the video stores back porn room' approach 
getting in
 may require a request to adjust member permissions.
 
 i know sites like the one added to vlogdir dont give a shit about
 vlogging... there just trying to make money.  i dont feel much 
concern for
 them...
 but stuff like madge puts out... that HAS a place here!
 
 sull
 
 On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Let's talk.
 
  It's a hot topic right now since our (Mefeedia) site chose one 
method
  to make the site 'safe for work' etc.
 
  Disclaimer: I want to talk as an individual, not as someone 
affiliated
  with Mefeedia.  That being said...
 
  There is a post on the Mefeedia blog that pointed out how 
content that
  might not be safe for work is handled.  The author of the post 
picked
  the first feed that they came across, it was never meant to 
single out
  anyone.  Apologies for singling out anyone that was not the 
intent at
  all.
 
  I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast.  And he's
  asking questions...I have some answers, as an individual, not as 
a
  spokesperson of mefeedia.
 
  Why do we need do cover up images like a vagina smoking a 
cigarette
  (for example)?  Personally, I know that kids will find porn 
online,
  that's not why I feel some images need to be categorized 
or 'covered
  up'.  I feel it is important for browsing at work or something 
like
  that, maybe over at my parent's places, etc.  So here I am 
browsing
  around and I get explicit images on the screen, my boss comes in 
my
  office and thinks I am browsing porn.
 
  I have no problem with porn, trust me...you should see my
  collection...It has nothing to do with monetization, etc.  It's 
about
  having a site that everyone can use anywhere, in a school, in a
  library, etc.
 
  Freedom of speech is thrown around right and left, but if a 
review of
  someone's feed isn't appreciated, then it's 'a bad' review, or
  un-fair.  How does that work?
 
  I have questions.  How do the other sites handle content?  How 
do we
  as a community make sites that everyone, anyone can watch 
anywhere?
 
  There are several feeds that have been flagged as potential adult
  content, not just the one, there are 25 of them.  But I agree 
that
  there should be some dialog with the producers of the feeds 
before
  they get flagged, that's where Mefeedia did go wrong, agreed.  
The
  process is being refined.  It's not the content of the video 
that I
  feel needs to be indentified, it's the thumbnails.
 
 
  --
  ~Devlon
  Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com
  Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com
 
  http://mefeedia.com -OR- http://mefeedia.com/blog
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 sull
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and 
revelation
 from which new form is born
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 http://vlogdir.com - The Videoblog Directory
 http://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere 
Aggregator
 http://interdigitate.com - on again off again personal vlog








 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups

Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.




On 1/10/06, Bill Streeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




I would say that you should consult with the porn site owners and 
get their input. I wouldn't think that they would want their stuff 
accessed by kids any more than you do. 

I think Richards biggest issue seemed to be that MeFeedia seemed to 
arbitrarily pick his feed out for labeling without consulting with 
him first. A little communication can go a long way. He's a long 
time member of this community and has contributed a lot to it. 
Agreed, the lack of dialog was a poor choice on our part. Guilty.
I think on solution to the problem could be just smarter directory 
structure (not easy I know) that makes sure that people see what 
they want to see without censoring the content producers or creating 
adult ghetto categories. 
Categories seem to be the smart way to go about it.
Creating 'kid friendly' categories and 'not safe for work'
categories, etc.

Bill Streeter
LO-FI SAINT LOUIS
www.lofistl.com



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 the first porn sites were added to vlogdir.com last week.
 that prompted me to add an Adult Content category.
 
 i can add a custom wrapper on that category to do a number of 
things... such
 as warnings, agreements and so-called age check, access 
restriction until a
 request is made to gain access, or do nothing (current status).
 
 i just have not made a final decision yet. i think it may depend 
on the
 type of porn site... the ones added to vlogdir.com were typical 
porn sites
 with a front being a videoblog... as a teaser... which lead you 
into joining
 as a member etc
 other sites may just be adult content, some porny stuff, but not 
that
 typical porn network concept.
 
 too busy to put effort into any one approach here... but soon i 
will make
 some sort of adjustment WITHOUT censoring honest works.
 this may include 'the video stores back porn room' approach 
getting in
 may require a request to adjust member permissions.
 
 i know sites like the one added to vlogdir dont give a shit about
 vlogging... there just trying to make money. i dont feel much 
concern for
 them...
 but stuff like madge puts out... that HAS a place here!
 
 sull
 
 On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Let's talk.
 
  It's a hot topic right now since our (Mefeedia) site chose one 
method
  to make the site 'safe for work' etc.
 
  Disclaimer: I want to talk as an individual, not as someone 
affiliated
  with Mefeedia. That being said...
 
  There is a post on the Mefeedia blog that pointed out how 
content that
  might not be safe for work is handled. The author of the post 
picked
  the first feed that they came across, it was never meant to 
single out
  anyone. Apologies for singling out anyone that was not the 
intent at
  all.
 
  I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast. And he's
  asking questions...I have some answers, as an individual, not as 
a
  spokesperson of mefeedia.
 
  Why do we need do cover up images like a vagina smoking a 
cigarette
  (for example)? Personally, I know that kids will find porn 
online,
  that's not why I feel some images need to be categorized 
or 'covered
  up'. I feel it is important for browsing at work or something 
like
  that, maybe over at my parent's places, etc. So here I am 
browsing
  around and I get explicit images on the screen, my boss comes in 
my
  office and thinks I am browsing porn.
 
  I have no problem with porn, trust me...you should see my
  collection...It has nothing to do with monetization, etc. It's 
about
  having a site that everyone can use anywhere, in a school, in a
  library, etc.
 
  Freedom of speech is thrown around right and left, but if a 
review of
  someone's feed isn't appreciated, then it's 'a bad' review, or
  un-fair. How does that work?
 
  I have questions. How do the other sites handle content? How 
do we
  as a community make sites that everyone, anyone can watch 
anywhere?
 
  There are several feeds that have been flagged as potential adult
  content, not just the one, there are 25 of them. But I agree 
that
  there should be some dialog with the producers of the feeds 
before
  they get flagged, that's where Mefeedia did go wrong, agreed. 
The
  process is being refined. It's not the content of the video 
that I
  feel needs to be indentified, it's the thumbnails.
 
 
  --
  ~Devlon
  Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com
  Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com
 
  http://mefeedia.com -OR- 
http://mefeedia.com/blog
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 sull
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and 
revelation
 from which new form is born
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 http://vlogdir.com - The Videoblog Directory
 http://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere 
Aggregator
 http://interdigitate.com - on again off again

Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

right.the last thread on this a month or 2 or 3 or 4 ago i suggested a proactive solution where the site had a clear path to Kid-friendly content, Adult content and some other filtered areas... where much else falls under the normalized flow of categories and tags. Yes, you can still 'see' stuff from anywhere but at least their would be less surprises and angered/turned off users.
sullOn 1/10/06, Bill Streeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would say that you should consult with the porn site owners andget their input. I wouldn't think that they would want their stuffaccessed by kids any more than you do.I think Richards biggest issue seemed to be that MeFeedia seemed to
arbitrarily pick his feed out for labeling without consulting withhim first. A little communication can go a long way. He's a longtime member of this community and has contributed a lot to it.I think on solution to the problem could be just smarter directory
structure (not easy I know) that makes sure that people see whatthey want to see without censoring the content producers or creatingadult ghetto categories.Bill StreeterLO-FI SAINT LOUIS
www.lofistl.com--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the first porn sites were added to
vlogdir.com last week. that prompted me to add an Adult Content category. i can add a custom wrapper on that category to do a number ofthings... such as warnings, agreements and so-called age check, access
restriction until a request is made to gain access, or do nothing (current status). i just have not made a final decision yet.i think it may dependon the type of porn site... the ones added to
vlogdir.com were typicalporn sites with a front being a videoblog... as a teaser... which lead youinto joining as a member etc other sites may just be adult content, some porny stuff, but not
that typical porn network concept. too busy to put effort into any one approach here... but soon iwill make some sort of adjustment WITHOUT censoring honest works. this may include 'the video stores back porn room' approach
getting in may require a request to adjust member permissions. i know sites like the one added to vlogdir dont give a shit about vlogging... there just trying to make money.i dont feel much
concern for them... but stuff like madge puts out... that HAS a place here! sull On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's talk.
It's a hot topic right now since our (Mefeedia) site chose onemethod to make the site 'safe for work' etc. Disclaimer: I want to talk as an individual, not as someone
affiliated with Mefeedia.That being said... There is a post on the Mefeedia blog that pointed out howcontent that might not be safe for work is handled.The author of the post
picked the first feed that they came across, it was never meant tosingle out anyone.Apologies for singling out anyone that was not theintent at all. I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast.And he's
asking questions...I have some answers, as an individual, not asa spokesperson of mefeedia. Why do we need do cover up images like a vagina smoking acigarette
(for example)?Personally, I know that kids will find pornonline, that's not why I feel some images need to be categorizedor 'covered up'.I feel it is important for browsing at work or something
like that, maybe over at my parent's places, etc.So here I ambrowsing around and I get explicit images on the screen, my boss comes inmy office and thinks I am browsing porn.
I have no problem with porn, trust me...you should see my collection...It has nothing to do with monetization, etc.It'sabout having a site that everyone can use anywhere, in a school, in a
library, etc. Freedom of speech is thrown around right and left, but if areview of someone's feed isn't appreciated, then it's 'a bad' review, or un-fair.How does that work?
I have questions.How do the other sites handle content?Howdo we as a community make sites that everyone, anyone can watchanywhere? There are several feeds that have been flagged as potential adult
content, not just the one, there are 25 of them.But I agreethat there should be some dialog with the producers of the feedsbefore they get flagged, that's where Mefeedia did go wrong, agreed.
The process is being refined.It's not the content of the videothat I feel needs to be indentified, it's the thumbnails.-- ~Devlon
Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com
http://mefeedia.com -OR- http://mefeedia.com/blog Yahoo! Groups Links
-- sull - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and
revelation from which new form is born - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://vlogdir.com - The Videoblog Directory
http://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / VlogosphereAggregator http://interdigitate.com - on again off again

Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

Sorry Sull, I did try to search for it this morning, but that's what I
get for reacting to things without sufficient caffeine in my system.

On 1/10/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  right.
 the last thread on this a month or 2 or 3 or 4 ago i suggested a
 proactive solution where the site had a clear path to Kid-friendly content,
 Adult content and some other filtered areas... where much else falls under
 the normalized flow of categories and tags.  Yes, you can still 'see' stuff
 from anywhere but at least their would be less surprises and angered/turned
 off users.

 sull


 On 1/10/06, Bill Streeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I would say that you should consult with the porn site owners and
  get their input. I wouldn't think that they would want their stuff
  accessed by kids any more than you do.
 
  I think Richards biggest issue seemed to be that MeFeedia seemed to
  arbitrarily pick his feed out for labeling without consulting with
  him first. A little communication can go a long way. He's a long
  time member of this community and has contributed a lot to it.
 
  I think on solution to the problem could be just smarter directory
  structure (not easy I know) that makes sure that people see what
  they want to see without censoring the content producers or creating
  adult ghetto categories.
 
  Bill Streeter
  LO-FI SAINT LOUIS
  www.lofistl.com
 
 
 
  --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   the first porn sites were added to vlogdir.com last week.
   that prompted me to add an Adult Content category.
  
   i can add a custom wrapper on that category to do a number of
  things... such
   as warnings, agreements and so-called age check, access
  restriction until a
   request is made to gain access, or do nothing (current status).
  
   i just have not made a final decision yet.  i think it may depend
  on the
   type of porn site... the ones added to vlogdir.com were typical
  porn sites
   with a front being a videoblog... as a teaser... which lead you
  into joining
   as a member etc
   other sites may just be adult content, some porny stuff, but not
  that
   typical porn network concept.
  
   too busy to put effort into any one approach here... but soon i
  will make
   some sort of adjustment WITHOUT censoring honest works.
   this may include 'the video stores back porn room' approach
  getting in
   may require a request to adjust member permissions.
  
   i know sites like the one added to vlogdir dont give a shit about
   vlogging... there just trying to make money.  i dont feel much
  concern for
   them...
   but stuff like madge puts out... that HAS a place here!
  
   sull
  
   On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
Let's talk.
   
It's a hot topic right now since our (Mefeedia) site chose one
  method
to make the site 'safe for work' etc.
   
Disclaimer: I want to talk as an individual, not as someone
  affiliated
with Mefeedia.  That being said...
   
There is a post on the Mefeedia blog that pointed out how
  content that
might not be safe for work is handled.  The author of the post
  picked
the first feed that they came across, it was never meant to
  single out
anyone.  Apologies for singling out anyone that was not the
  intent at
all.
   
I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast.  And he's
asking questions...I have some answers, as an individual, not as
  a
spokesperson of mefeedia.
   
Why do we need do cover up images like a vagina smoking a
  cigarette
(for example)?  Personally, I know that kids will find porn
  online,
that's not why I feel some images need to be categorized
  or 'covered
up'.  I feel it is important for browsing at work or something
  like
that, maybe over at my parent's places, etc.  So here I am
  browsing
around and I get explicit images on the screen, my boss comes in
  my
office and thinks I am browsing porn.
   
I have no problem with porn, trust me...you should see my
collection...It has nothing to do with monetization, etc.  It's
  about
having a site that everyone can use anywhere, in a school, in a
library, etc.
   
Freedom of speech is thrown around right and left, but if a
  review of
someone's feed isn't appreciated, then it's 'a bad' review, or
un-fair.  How does that work?
   
I have questions.  How do the other sites handle content?  How
  do we
as a community make sites that everyone, anyone can watch
  anywhere?
   
There are several feeds that have been flagged as potential adult
content, not just the one, there are 25 of them.  But I agree
  that
there should be some dialog with the producers of the feeds
  before
they get flagged, that's where Mefeedia did go wrong, agreed.
  The
process is being refined.  It's not the content of the video
  that I
feel needs to be indentified, it's the

Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

On 1/10/06, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Philip Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   My feed is one of the ones that has been flagged as adult content.
   I'm OK with that.
  
   Seems to me, as long as you're the one who's hosting the party, you
   should be allowed to set the dress code.
  

  I agree.

True, but we'd like to have a happy balance between open-ness and
still be safe for everyone.


-- Enric

  
 I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast
  
   Do you have link to the podcast you speak of?
  
   --
   xo philip
   http://swordfight.org
   http://destroyhotaction.com
  







  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


  Visit your group videoblogging on the web.

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

  



--
~Devlon
Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com
Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com

http://mefeedia.com -OR- http://mefeedia.com/blog


 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.




categories... a full circle. back in the day most were like 'categories? that's out. Now it's all about tags!My response was... 'nope, its about categories AND tags'.
On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



On 1/10/06, Bill Streeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





I would say that you should consult with the porn site owners and 
get their input. I wouldn't think that they would want their stuff 
accessed by kids any more than you do. 

I think Richards biggest issue seemed to be that MeFeedia seemed to 
arbitrarily pick his feed out for labeling without consulting with 
him first. A little communication can go a long way. He's a long 
time member of this community and has contributed a lot to it. 
Agreed, the lack of dialog was a poor choice on our part. Guilty.

I think on solution to the problem could be just smarter directory 
structure (not easy I know) that makes sure that people see what 
they want to see without censoring the content producers or creating 
adult ghetto categories. 
Categories seem to be the smart way to go about it.
Creating 'kid friendly' categories and 'not safe for work'
categories, etc.

Bill Streeter
LO-FI SAINT LOUIS
www.lofistl.com



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 the first porn sites were added to vlogdir.com last week.
 that prompted me to add an Adult Content category.
 
 i can add a custom wrapper on that category to do a number of 
things... such
 as warnings, agreements and so-called age check, access 
restriction until a
 request is made to gain access, or do nothing (current status).
 
 i just have not made a final decision yet. i think it may depend 
on the
 type of porn site... the ones added to vlogdir.com were typical 
porn sites
 with a front being a videoblog... as a teaser... which lead you 
into joining
 as a member etc
 other sites may just be adult content, some porny stuff, but not 
that
 typical porn network concept.
 
 too busy to put effort into any one approach here... but soon i 
will make
 some sort of adjustment WITHOUT censoring honest works.
 this may include 'the video stores back porn room' approach 
getting in
 may require a request to adjust member permissions.
 
 i know sites like the one added to vlogdir dont give a shit about
 vlogging... there just trying to make money. i dont feel much 
concern for
 them...
 but stuff like madge puts out... that HAS a place here!
 
 sull
 
 On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Let's talk.
 
  It's a hot topic right now since our (Mefeedia) site chose one 
method
  to make the site 'safe for work' etc.
 
  Disclaimer: I want to talk as an individual, not as someone 
affiliated
  with Mefeedia. That being said...
 
  There is a post on the Mefeedia blog that pointed out how 
content that
  might not be safe for work is handled. The author of the post 
picked
  the first feed that they came across, it was never meant to 
single out
  anyone. Apologies for singling out anyone that was not the 
intent at
  all.
 
  I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast. And he's
  asking questions...I have some answers, as an individual, not as 
a
  spokesperson of mefeedia.
 
  Why do we need do cover up images like a vagina smoking a 
cigarette
  (for example)? Personally, I know that kids will find porn 
online,
  that's not why I feel some images need to be categorized 
or 'covered
  up'. I feel it is important for browsing at work or something 
like
  that, maybe over at my parent's places, etc. So here I am 
browsing
  around and I get explicit images on the screen, my boss comes in 
my
  office and thinks I am browsing porn.
 
  I have no problem with porn, trust me...you should see my
  collection...It has nothing to do with monetization, etc. It's 
about
  having a site that everyone can use anywhere, in a school, in a
  library, etc.
 
  Freedom of speech is thrown around right and left, but if a 
review of
  someone's feed isn't appreciated, then it's 'a bad' review, or
  un-fair. How does that work?
 
  I have questions. How do the other sites handle content? How 
do we
  as a community make sites that everyone, anyone can watch 
anywhere?
 
  There are several feeds that have been flagged as potential adult
  content, not just the one, there are 25 of them. But I agree 
that
  there should be some dialog with the producers of the feeds 
before
  they get flagged, that's where Mefeedia did go wrong, agreed. 
The
  process is being refined. It's not the content of the video 
that I
  feel needs to be indentified, it's the thumbnails.
 
 
  --
  ~Devlon
  Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com
  Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com
 
  http://mefeedia.com -OR- 

http://mefeedia.com/blog
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 sull
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and 
revelation
 from which new form is born
 - - - - - - - -

Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.




Categories based on tags maybe?On 1/10/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



categories... a full circle. back in the day most were like 'categories? that's out. Now it's all about tags!My response was... 'nope, its about categories AND tags'.

On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




On 1/10/06, Bill Streeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





I would say that you should consult with the porn site owners and 
get their input. I wouldn't think that they would want their stuff 
accessed by kids any more than you do. 

I think Richards biggest issue seemed to be that MeFeedia seemed to 
arbitrarily pick his feed out for labeling without consulting with 
him first. A little communication can go a long way. He's a long 
time member of this community and has contributed a lot to it. 
Agreed, the lack of dialog was a poor choice on our part. Guilty.

I think on solution to the problem could be just smarter directory 
structure (not easy I know) that makes sure that people see what 
they want to see without censoring the content producers or creating 
adult ghetto categories. 
Categories seem to be the smart way to go about it.
Creating 'kid friendly' categories and 'not safe for work'
categories, etc.

Bill Streeter
LO-FI SAINT LOUIS
www.lofistl.com



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 the first porn sites were added to vlogdir.com last week.
 that prompted me to add an Adult Content category.
 
 i can add a custom wrapper on that category to do a number of 
things... such
 as warnings, agreements and so-called age check, access 
restriction until a
 request is made to gain access, or do nothing (current status).
 
 i just have not made a final decision yet. i think it may depend 
on the
 type of porn site... the ones added to vlogdir.com were typical 
porn sites
 with a front being a videoblog... as a teaser... which lead you 
into joining
 as a member etc
 other sites may just be adult content, some porny stuff, but not 
that
 typical porn network concept.
 
 too busy to put effort into any one approach here... but soon i 
will make
 some sort of adjustment WITHOUT censoring honest works.
 this may include 'the video stores back porn room' approach 
getting in
 may require a request to adjust member permissions.
 
 i know sites like the one added to vlogdir dont give a shit about
 vlogging... there just trying to make money. i dont feel much 
concern for
 them...
 but stuff like madge puts out... that HAS a place here!
 
 sull
 
 On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Let's talk.
 
  It's a hot topic right now since our (Mefeedia) site chose one 
method
  to make the site 'safe for work' etc.
 
  Disclaimer: I want to talk as an individual, not as someone 
affiliated
  with Mefeedia. That being said...
 
  There is a post on the Mefeedia blog that pointed out how 
content that
  might not be safe for work is handled. The author of the post 
picked
  the first feed that they came across, it was never meant to 
single out
  anyone. Apologies for singling out anyone that was not the 
intent at
  all.
 
  I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast. And he's
  asking questions...I have some answers, as an individual, not as 
a
  spokesperson of mefeedia.
 
  Why do we need do cover up images like a vagina smoking a 
cigarette
  (for example)? Personally, I know that kids will find porn 
online,
  that's not why I feel some images need to be categorized 
or 'covered
  up'. I feel it is important for browsing at work or something 
like
  that, maybe over at my parent's places, etc. So here I am 
browsing
  around and I get explicit images on the screen, my boss comes in 
my
  office and thinks I am browsing porn.
 
  I have no problem with porn, trust me...you should see my
  collection...It has nothing to do with monetization, etc. It's 
about
  having a site that everyone can use anywhere, in a school, in a
  library, etc.
 
  Freedom of speech is thrown around right and left, but if a 
review of
  someone's feed isn't appreciated, then it's 'a bad' review, or
  un-fair. How does that work?
 
  I have questions. How do the other sites handle content? How 
do we
  as a community make sites that everyone, anyone can watch 
anywhere?
 
  There are several feeds that have been flagged as potential adult
  content, not just the one, there are 25 of them. But I agree 
that
  there should be some dialog with the producers of the feeds 
before
  they get flagged, that's where Mefeedia did go wrong, agreed. 
The
  process is being refined. It's not the content of the video 
that I
  feel needs to be indentified, it's the thumbnails.
 
 
  --
  ~Devlon
  Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com
  Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com
 
  http://mefeedia.com -OR- 


http://mefeedia.com/blog
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 sull
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 The hybrid or the meeting of

Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Joshua Kinberg




Here's a suggestion...

You need contact info for the feed owner to notify them (allow owners
to claim their feed)... perhaps notify them that their feed will be
flagged as explicit and offer them a choice to provide a rating
category if they desire (PG, PG-13, R, X... whatever scale you want).

-Josh


  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



  Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

Yes, another good suggestion.  We are working on feed claiming in a
future release.

I think the main failing in this issue is our lack of communication
iwth the owner of the feed.

On 1/10/06, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Here's a suggestion...

  You need contact info for the feed owner to notify them (allow owners to
 claim their feed)... perhaps notify them that their feed will be flagged as
 explicit and offer them a choice to provide a rating category if they desire
 (PG, PG-13, R, X... whatever scale you want).

  -Josh



  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


  Visit your group videoblogging on the web.

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

  



--
~Devlon
Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com
Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com

http://mefeedia.com -OR- http://mefeedia.com/blog


 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

 Ratings could be something like: Kids/General/Mature/Adult

Sorry, but I don't think either of these tags fit all content very
well.  I think we'd need something like PG-13 or PG-16.  I just think
that David's description of Mature and Adult are too similar, which is
why I mentioned R and X (R is violence/nudity, X is porn).  Neither
apply to Kitkast, which is why I suggested something like PG-13 and
PG-16... it contains sexual themes, not graphics.

Kitka







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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[videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Bill Streeter

Or how about this. Have a really general category structure by 
default, and allow users to create their own personallized 
categories based on tags. Okay maybe that's too obvious. 

Bill Streeter
LO-FI SAINT LOUIS
www.lofistl.com

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Categories based on tags maybe?
 
 On 1/10/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  categories... a full circle.
  back in the day most were like 'categories?  that's out.  
Now it's all
  about tags!
  My response was... 'nope, its about categories AND tags'.
 
 
  On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
On 1/10/06, Bill Streeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 I would say that you should consult with the porn site 
owners and
get their input. I wouldn't think that they would want their 
stuff
accessed by kids any more than you do.
   
I think Richards biggest issue seemed to be that MeFeedia 
seemed to
arbitrarily pick his feed out for labeling without 
consulting with
him first. A little communication can go a long way. He's a 
long
time member of this community and has contributed a lot to 
it.
  
  
   Agreed, the lack of dialog was a poor choice on our part.  
Guilty.
  
I think on solution to the problem could be just smarter 
directory
structure (not easy I know) that makes sure that people see 
what
they want to see without censoring the content producers or 
creating
adult ghetto categories.
  
  
   Categories seem to be the smart way to go about it.  
Creating  'kid
   friendly' categories and 'not safe for work' categories, etc.
  
   Bill Streeter
LO-FI SAINT LOUIS
www.lofistl.com
   
   
   
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 the first porn sites were added to vlogdir.com last week.
 that prompted me to add an Adult Content category.

 i can add a custom wrapper on that category to do a number 
of
things... such
 as warnings, agreements and so-called age check, access
restriction until a
 request is made to gain access, or do nothing (current 
status).

 i just have not made a final decision yet.  i think it may 
depend
on the
 type of porn site... the ones added to vlogdir.com were 
typical
porn sites
 with a front being a videoblog... as a teaser... which 
lead you
into joining
 as a member etc
 other sites may just be adult content, some porny stuff, 
but not
that
 typical porn network concept.

 too busy to put effort into any one approach here... but 
soon i
will make
 some sort of adjustment WITHOUT censoring honest works.
 this may include 'the video stores back porn room' 
approach
getting in
 may require a request to adjust member permissions.

 i know sites like the one added to vlogdir dont give a 
shit about
 vlogging... there just trying to make money.  i dont feel 
much
concern for
 them...
 but stuff like madge puts out... that HAS a place here!

 sull

 On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Let's talk.
 
  It's a hot topic right now since our (Mefeedia) site 
chose one
method
  to make the site 'safe for work' etc.
 
  Disclaimer: I want to talk as an individual, not as 
someone
affiliated
  with Mefeedia.  That being said...
 
  There is a post on the Mefeedia blog that pointed out how
content that
  might not be safe for work is handled.  The author of 
the post
picked
  the first feed that they came across, it was never meant 
to
single out
  anyone.  Apologies for singling out anyone that was not 
the
intent at
  all.
 
  I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast.  
And he's
  asking questions...I have some answers, as an 
individual, not as
a
  spokesperson of mefeedia.
 
  Why do we need do cover up images like a vagina smoking a
cigarette
  (for example)?  Personally, I know that kids will find 
porn
online,
  that's not why I feel some images need to be categorized
or 'covered
  up'.  I feel it is important for browsing at work or 
something
like
  that, maybe over at my parent's places, etc.  So here I 
am
browsing
  around and I get explicit images on the screen, my boss 
comes in
my
  office and thinks I am browsing porn.
 
  I have no problem with porn, trust me...you should see my
  collection...It has nothing to do with monetization, 
etc.  It's
about
  having a site that everyone can use anywhere, in a 
school, in a
  library, etc.
 
  Freedom of speech is thrown around right and left, but 
if a
review of
  someone's feed isn't appreciated, then it's 'a bad' 
review, or
  un-fair.  How does that work?
 
  I have questions.  How do the other sites handle

Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Pete Prodoehl

Ms. Kitka wrote:
Ratings could be something like: Kids/General/Mature/Adult
 
 
 Sorry, but I don't think either of these tags fit all content very
 well.  I think we'd need something like PG-13 or PG-16.  I just think
 that David's description of Mature and Adult are too similar, which is
 why I mentioned R and X (R is violence/nudity, X is porn).  Neither
 apply to Kitkast, which is why I suggested something like PG-13 and
 PG-16... it contains sexual themes, not graphics.

Or we could use the Entertainment Software Rating Board's ratings:

   http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp


I'm sure there are existing systems we could use. Is anyone familiar 
with what might be going on in the (audio) podcasting world in this 
respect? (Or are the all just using the iTunes Explicit tag?)

Pete

-- 
http://tinkernet.org/
videoblog for the future...




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

I would be nice (if this is a favorable way to go) to use our own
ratings, and not be tied to choices big media made

On 1/10/06, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Ms. Kitka wrote:
  Ratings could be something like: Kids/General/Mature/Adult
  
  
   Sorry, but I don't think either of these tags fit all content very
   well.  I think we'd need something like PG-13 or PG-16.  I just think
   that David's description of Mature and Adult are too similar, which is
   why I mentioned R and X (R is violence/nudity, X is porn).  Neither
   apply to Kitkast, which is why I suggested something like PG-13 and
   PG-16... it contains sexual themes, not graphics.

  Or we could use the Entertainment Software Rating Board's ratings:

 http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp


  I'm sure there are existing systems we could use. Is anyone familiar
  with what might be going on in the (audio) podcasting world in this
  respect? (Or are the all just using the iTunes Explicit tag?)

  Pete

  --
  http://tinkernet.org/
  videoblog for the future...





  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


  Visit your group videoblogging on the web.

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

  



--
~Devlon
Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com
Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com

http://mefeedia.com -OR- http://mefeedia.com/blog


 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Andreas Haugstrup

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 17:32:11 +0100, Ms. Kitka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 What would be nice is if the sites would provide markers indicating
 the rating level of content similar to Hollywood films (G, PG-13,
 PG-16, R, X).  There's nothing I hate more than sitting in front of
 the computer wondering whether I should label myself as adult or for
 everyone.  When submitting a feed, there should be a drop down list of
 options similar to the ratings listed above.  Those ratings should
 then show up as a label when people are browsing through the vlogs.

Not as easy as it sounds. The MPAA ratings only have any meaning in the  
USA - anyone else will not know what the mean. That being said the opinion  
of what's suited for what ages varies wildly from culture to culture. My  
favourite example is the dogme movie Italiensk for begyndere. In the US  
it is rated R, in Denmark it's rated safe for age 7 and above. The  
reason for the US rating? Rated R for language and some sexuality. I  
don't know what the MPAA has against the Danish language, a pair of boobs  
and a man's butt, but it's certainly not appropriate unless you're 17!

Just an example to show that ratings are not easy to implement in a way  
where they'll work well.

- Andreas
-- 
URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ 
Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.


 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Joshua Kinberg

Categories based on tags maybe?

That is the Microformat way. Just tag it with a relTag.

-Josh



On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Categories based on tags maybe?


 On 1/10/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  categories... a full circle.
  back in the day most were like 'categories?  that's out.  Now it's all 
  about tags!
  My response was... 'nope, its about categories AND tags'.
 
 
 
 
   On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 1/10/06, Bill Streeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
 I would say that you should consult with the porn site owners and
 get their input. I wouldn't think that they would want their stuff
 accessed by kids any more than you do.
   
 I think Richards biggest issue seemed to be that MeFeedia seemed to
 arbitrarily pick his feed out for labeling without consulting with
 him first. A little communication can go a long way. He's a long
 time member of this community and has contributed a lot to it.
  
  
Agreed, the lack of dialog was a poor choice on our part.  Guilty.
  
  I think on solution to the problem could be just smarter directory
 structure (not easy I know) that makes sure that people see what
 they want to see without censoring the content producers or creating
 adult ghetto categories.
  
  
Categories seem to be the smart way to go about it.  Creating  'kid 
   friendly' categories and 'not safe for work' categories, etc.
  
  
   
 Bill Streeter
 LO-FI SAINT LOUIS
 www.lofistl.com
   
   
   
 --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan
   
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  the first porn sites were added to vlogdir.com last week.
  that prompted me to add an Adult Content category.
 
  i can add a custom wrapper on that category to do a number of
 things... such
  as warnings, agreements and so-called age check, access
 restriction until a
  request is made to gain access, or do nothing (current status).
 
  i just have not made a final decision yet.  i think it may depend
 on the
  type of porn site... the ones added to vlogdir.com were typical
 porn sites
  with a front being a videoblog... as a teaser... which lead you
 into joining
  as a member etc
  other sites may just be adult content, some porny stuff, but not
 that
  typical porn network concept.
 
  too busy to put effort into any one approach here... but soon i
 will make
  some sort of adjustment WITHOUT censoring honest works.
  this may include 'the video stores back porn room' approach
 getting in
  may require a request to adjust member permissions.
 
  i know sites like the one added to vlogdir dont give a shit about
  vlogging... there just trying to make money.  i dont feel much
 concern for
  them...
  but stuff like madge puts out... that HAS a place here!
 
  sull
 
   
  On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Let's talk.
  
   It's a hot topic right now since our (Mefeedia) site chose one
 method
   to make the site 'safe for work' etc.
  
   Disclaimer: I want to talk as an individual, not as someone
 affiliated
   with Mefeedia.  That being said...
  
   There is a post on the Mefeedia blog that pointed out how
 content that
   might not be safe for work is handled.  The author of the post
 picked
   the first feed that they came across, it was never meant to
 single out
   anyone.  Apologies for singling out anyone that was not the
 intent at
   all.
  
   I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast.  And he's
   asking questions...I have some answers, as an individual, not as
 a
   spokesperson of mefeedia.
  
   Why do we need do cover up images like a vagina smoking a
 cigarette
   (for example)?  Personally, I know that kids will find porn
 online,
   that's not why I feel some images need to be categorized
 or 'covered
   up'.  I feel it is important for browsing at work or something
 like
   that, maybe over at my parent's places, etc.  So here I am
 browsing
   around and I get explicit images on the screen, my boss comes in
 my
   office and thinks I am browsing porn.
  
   I have no problem with porn, trust me...you should see my
   collection...It has nothing to do with monetization, etc.  It's
 about
   having a site that everyone can use anywhere, in a school, in a
   library, etc.
  
   Freedom of speech is thrown around right and left, but if a
 review of
   someone's feed isn't appreciated, then it's 'a bad' review, or
   un-fair.  How does that work?
  
   I have questions.  How do the other sites handle content?  How
 do we
   as a community make

Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Christopher Weagel



You guys are suggesting ratings?

Jesus christ.

Pick up a camera and go make something, stop wasting time on children  
who have assholes for parents.

Chris Weagel
www.human-dog.com




On Jan 10, 2006, at 1:55 PM, Ms. Kitka wrote:

 Ratings could be something like: Kids/General/Mature/Adult

 Sorry, but I don't think either of these tags fit all content very
 well.  I think we'd need something like PG-13 or PG-16.  I just think
 that David's description of Mature and Adult are too similar, which is
 why I mentioned R and X (R is violence/nudity, X is porn).  Neither
 apply to Kitkast, which is why I suggested something like PG-13 and
 PG-16... it contains sexual themes, not graphics.

 Kitka








 Yahoo! Groups Links









 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Joshua Kinberg

maybe just allow folks to tag it not safe for work
a check box when submitting a feed.

-Josh


On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I would be nice (if this is a favorable way to go) to use our own
 ratings, and not be tied to choices big media made

 On 1/10/06, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Ms. Kitka wrote:
   Ratings could be something like: Kids/General/Mature/Adult
   
   
Sorry, but I don't think either of these tags fit all content very
well.  I think we'd need something like PG-13 or PG-16.  I just think
that David's description of Mature and Adult are too similar, which is
why I mentioned R and X (R is violence/nudity, X is porn).  Neither
apply to Kitkast, which is why I suggested something like PG-13 and
PG-16... it contains sexual themes, not graphics.
 
   Or we could use the Entertainment Software Rating Board's ratings:
 
  http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp
 
 
   I'm sure there are existing systems we could use. Is anyone familiar
   with what might be going on in the (audio) podcasting world in this
   respect? (Or are the all just using the iTunes Explicit tag?)
 
   Pete
 
   --
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   videoblog for the future...
 
 
 
 
 
   
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

I think this will cover a lot of ground initially.  I like it.

On 1/10/06, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  maybe just allow folks to tag it not safe for work
  a check box when submitting a feed.

  -Josh


  On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I would be nice (if this is a favorable way to go) to use our own
   ratings, and not be tied to choices big media made
  
   On 1/10/06, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ms. Kitka wrote:
 Ratings could be something like: Kids/General/Mature/Adult
 
 
  Sorry, but I don't think either of these tags fit all content very
  well.  I think we'd need something like PG-13 or PG-16.  I just
 think
  that David's description of Mature and Adult are too similar, which
 is
  why I mentioned R and X (R is violence/nudity, X is porn).  Neither
  apply to Kitkast, which is why I suggested something like PG-13 and
  PG-16... it contains sexual themes, not graphics.
   
 Or we could use the Entertainment Software Rating Board's ratings:
   
http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp
   
   
 I'm sure there are existing systems we could use. Is anyone familiar
 with what might be going on in the (audio) podcasting world in this
 respect? (Or are the all just using the iTunes Explicit tag?)
   
 Pete
   
 --
 http://tinkernet.org/
 videoblog for the future...
   
   
   
   
   
 
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 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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   --
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   Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com
   Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com
  
   http://mefeedia.com -OR- http://mefeedia.com/blog
  
  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

We did toss this idea around, I don't remember what happened to it,
but it's a good idea.

On 1/10/06, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Categories based on tags maybe?

  That is the Microformat way. Just tag it with a relTag.

  -Josh




  On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Categories based on tags maybe?
  
  
   On 1/10/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
categories... a full circle.
back in the day most were like 'categories?  that's out.  Now it's
 all about tags!
My response was... 'nope, its about categories AND tags'.
   
   
   
   
 On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On 1/10/06, Bill Streeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   I would say that you should consult with the porn site owners
 and
   get their input. I wouldn't think that they would want their stuff
   accessed by kids any more than you do.
 
   I think Richards biggest issue seemed to be that MeFeedia seemed
 to
   arbitrarily pick his feed out for labeling without consulting with
   him first. A little communication can go a long way. He's a long
   time member of this community and has contributed a lot to it.


  Agreed, the lack of dialog was a poor choice on our part.  Guilty.

I think on solution to the problem could be just smarter
 directory
   structure (not easy I know) that makes sure that people see what
   they want to see without censoring the content producers or
 creating
   adult ghetto categories.


  Categories seem to be the smart way to go about it.  Creating  'kid
 friendly' categories and 'not safe for work' categories, etc.


 
   Bill Streeter
   LO-FI SAINT LOUIS
   www.lofistl.com
 
 
 
   --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan
 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
the first porn sites were added to vlogdir.com last week.
that prompted me to add an Adult Content category.
   
i can add a custom wrapper on that category to do a number of
   things... such
as warnings, agreements and so-called age check, access
   restriction until a
request is made to gain access, or do nothing (current status).
   
i just have not made a final decision yet.  i think it may
 depend
   on the
type of porn site... the ones added to vlogdir.com were typical
   porn sites
with a front being a videoblog... as a teaser... which lead you
   into joining
as a member etc
other sites may just be adult content, some porny stuff, but not
   that
typical porn network concept.
   
too busy to put effort into any one approach here... but soon i
   will make
some sort of adjustment WITHOUT censoring honest works.
this may include 'the video stores back porn room' approach
   getting in
may require a request to adjust member permissions.
   
i know sites like the one added to vlogdir dont give a shit
 about
vlogging... there just trying to make money.  i dont feel much
   concern for
them...
but stuff like madge puts out... that HAS a place here!
   
sull
   
 
On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Let's talk.

 It's a hot topic right now since our (Mefeedia) site chose one
   method
 to make the site 'safe for work' etc.

 Disclaimer: I want to talk as an individual, not as someone
   affiliated
 with Mefeedia.  That being said...

 There is a post on the Mefeedia blog that pointed out how
   content that
 might not be safe for work is handled.  The author of the post
   picked
 the first feed that they came across, it was never meant to
   single out
 anyone.  Apologies for singling out anyone that was not the
   intent at
 all.

 I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast.  And
 he's
 asking questions...I have some answers, as an individual, not
 as
   a
 spokesperson of mefeedia.

 Why do we need do cover up images like a vagina smoking a
   cigarette
 (for example)?  Personally, I know that kids will find porn
   online,
 that's not why I feel some images need to be categorized
   or 'covered
 up'.  I feel it is important for browsing at work or something
   like
 that, maybe over at my parent's places, etc.  So here I am
   browsing
 around and I get explicit images on the screen, my boss comes
 in
   my
 office and thinks I am browsing porn.

 I have no problem with porn, trust me...you should see my
 collection...It has nothing to do with monetization, etc.
 It's

[videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

 Or we could use the Entertainment Software Rating Board's ratings:
 
http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp


I heartfully agree with using the ESRB's ratings, they are well
written and I can flag myself as being alright for over 13s (Titles
rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and
older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive
themes, crude humor, minimal blood and/or infrequent use of strong
language.)

Kitka






 
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread duncan




minimal blood that's a great criteria!!!d 

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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.




yeah.. i this is good approach as a loose label...i suggested the same thing inside of a chat on tagging a feed 'plays on insert device name' so people can know if the channel will work on video iPods, PSPs etc... 
same applies here... a loose guide to the channel. still, RSS usage is best in these cases since that is the core and travels with the channel and not dependent on a directory tag.
On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think this will cover a lot of ground initially.I like it.On 1/10/06, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:maybe just allow folks to tag it not safe for work
a check box when submitting a feed.-JoshOn 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be nice (if this is a favorable way to go) to use our own
 ratings, and not be tied to choices big media made On 1/10/06, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ms. Kitka wrote:
 Ratings could be something like: Kids/General/Mature/AdultSorry, but I don't think either of these tags fit all content very
  well.I think we'd need something like PG-13 or PG-16.I just think  that David's description of Mature and Adult are too similar, which is  why I mentioned R and X (R is violence/nudity, X is porn).Neither
  apply to Kitkast, which is why I suggested something like PG-13 and  PG-16... it contains sexual themes, not graphics.  Or we could use the Entertainment Software Rating Board's ratings:
   http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp   I'm sure there are existing systems we could use. Is anyone familiar
 with what might be going on in the (audio) podcasting world in this respect? (Or are the all just using the iTunes Explicit tag?)  Pete
  -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future...   
    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group videoblogging on the web.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    --
 ~Devlon Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com
 http://mefeedia.com -OR- http://mefeedia.com/blog Yahoo! Groups Links
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group videoblogging on the web.To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.--~DevlonBlog: 
http://devlond.blogspot.comVlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.comhttp://mefeedia.com -OR- 
http://mefeedia.com/blogYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- sull- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and revelation from which new form is born- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://vlogdir.com
 - The Videoblog Directoryhttp://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere Aggregator http://interdigitate.com - on again off again personal vlog





  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread niko_video

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Ms. Kitka wrote:
 Ratings could be something like: Kids/General/Mature/Adult
  
  
  Sorry, but I don't think either of these tags fit all content 
very
  well.  I think we'd need something like PG-13 or PG-16.  I just 
think
  that David's description of Mature and Adult are too similar, 
which is
  why I mentioned R and X (R is violence/nudity, X is porn).  
Neither
  apply to Kitkast, which is why I suggested something like PG-13 
and
  PG-16... it contains sexual themes, not graphics.
 
 Or we could use the Entertainment Software Rating Board's ratings:
 
http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp
 
 
 I'm sure there are existing systems we could use. Is anyone 
familiar 
 with what might be going on in the (audio) podcasting world in 
this 
 respect? (Or are the all just using the iTunes Explicit tag?)
 
 Pete
 
 -- 
 http://tinkernet.org/
 videoblog for the future...

I don't really get the point of trying to find the perfect rating 
system. Maybe I just don't get it because I am young, but I remember 
being 12 and 14 years old and having no problem finding as much porn 
as I could handle. These ratings systems of for the birds. If you 
are smart enough to be on the net, and you want to get porn, as a 
kid it isn't hard to do. I downloaded Veoh earlier today at Kitka's 
suggestion and they seem to rate most things correctly, but then 
they just try to hide the adult filter in preference. Bottom line, 
ratings only make people feel safe. They won't keep kids from being 
kids or from being exposed to things and growing up. 





 
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[videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

 Pick up a camera and go make something, stop wasting time on children  
 who have assholes for parents.

Oh, come on... haven't you ever heard of the Child Protection and
Obscenity Enforcement Act?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_USC_Section_2257

Kitka





 
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.




Metadata is king.On 1/10/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



yeah.. i this is good approach as a loose label...i suggested
the same thing inside of a chat on tagging a feed 'plays on insert
device name' so people can know if the channel will work on video
iPods, PSPs etc... same applies here... a loose guide to the channel. still,
RSS usage is best in these cases since that is the core and travels
with the channel and not dependent on a directory tag.
On 1/10/06, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I think this will cover a lot of ground initially.I like it.On 1/10/06, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:maybe just allow folks to tag it not safe for work
a check box when submitting a feed.-JoshOn 1/10/06, Devlon 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be nice (if this is a favorable way to go) to use our own
 ratings, and not be tied to choices big media made On 1/10/06, Pete Prodoehl 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ms. Kitka wrote:
 Ratings could be something like: Kids/General/Mature/AdultSorry, but I don't think either of these tags fit all content very
  well.I think we'd need something like PG-13 or PG-16.I just think  that David's description of Mature and Adult are too similar, which is  why I mentioned R and X (R is violence/nudity, X is porn).Neither
  apply to Kitkast, which is why I suggested something like PG-13 and  PG-16... it contains sexual themes, not graphics.  Or we could use the Entertainment Software Rating Board's ratings:
   http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp 
  I'm sure there are existing systems we could use. Is anyone familiar
 with what might be going on in the (audio) podcasting world in this respect? (Or are the all just using the iTunes Explicit tag?)  Pete
  -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future...
   
    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group videoblogging on the web.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    --
 ~Devlon Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com Vlog: 
http://8bitme.blogspot.com
 http://mefeedia.com -OR- 
http://mefeedia.com/blog Yahoo! Groups Links
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group videoblogging on the web.To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.--~DevlonBlog: 

http://devlond.blogspot.comVlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com
http://mefeedia.com -OR- 
http://mefeedia.com/blogYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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-- sull- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and revelation from which new form is born- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
http://vlogdir.com
 - The Videoblog Directoryhttp://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere Aggregator 
http://interdigitate.com - on again off again personal vlog





  
  
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http://mefeedia.com -OR- http://mefeedia.com/blog





  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.


 If you are smart enough to be on the net, and you want to get porn,
as a kid it isn't hard to do.

I agree, if a kid is smart enough and wants to get porn I think they
should be allowed to access it.  However, the American Government
doesn't agree with me, which is why 18 U.S.C. § 2251 exists
(http://www.law.cornell.edu/usc-cgi/newurl?title=18section=2251type=titlesect).

Kitka






 
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[videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Mark Cyr

I think Veoh got it right when they introduced the TV ratings scale in
their directory to be applied by podcasters and suggested by viewers.

With that said I always apply the explicit flag to all my posts even
when certain directories say they are more PG-13, because it is our
intention and attitude that our audience is a fun loving sexy group of
folks over the age of 18...

Mark
This or That!
America's Favorite Burlesque game Show
http://thisorthat-video.blogspot.com

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Let's talk.
 
 It's a hot topic right now since our (Mefeedia) site chose one method
 to make the site 'safe for work' etc.
 
 Disclaimer: I want to talk as an individual, not as someone affiliated
 with Mefeedia.  That being said...
 
 There is a post on the Mefeedia blog that pointed out how content that
 might not be safe for work is handled.  The author of the post picked
 the first feed that they came across, it was never meant to single out
 anyone.  Apologies for singling out anyone that was not the intent at
 all.
 
 I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast.  And he's
 asking questions...I have some answers, as an individual, not as a
 spokesperson of mefeedia.
 
 Why do we need do cover up images like a vagina smoking a cigarette
 (for example)?  Personally, I know that kids will find porn online,
 that's not why I feel some images need to be categorized or 'covered
 up'.  I feel it is important for browsing at work or something like
 that, maybe over at my parent's places, etc.  So here I am browsing
 around and I get explicit images on the screen, my boss comes in my
 office and thinks I am browsing porn.
 
 I have no problem with porn, trust me...you should see my
 collection...It has nothing to do with monetization, etc.  It's about
 having a site that everyone can use anywhere, in a school, in a
 library, etc.
 
 Freedom of speech is thrown around right and left, but if a review of
 someone's feed isn't appreciated, then it's 'a bad' review, or
 un-fair.  How does that work?
 
 I have questions.  How do the other sites handle content?  How do we
 as a community make sites that everyone, anyone can watch anywhere?
 
 There are several feeds that have been flagged as potential adult
 content, not just the one, there are 25 of them.  But I agree that
 there should be some dialog with the producers of the feeds before
 they get flagged, that's where Mefeedia did go wrong, agreed.  The
 process is being refined.  It's not the content of the video that I
 feel needs to be indentified, it's the thumbnails.
 
 
 --
 ~Devlon
 Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com
 Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com
 
 http://mefeedia.com -OR- http://mefeedia.com/blog







 
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[videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Nick

I just check out your show Mark. 

http://appserver.veoh.com/mediaDetails.html?permalinkId=e22690

In light of that (oh! my virgin eyes!) I suggested a rating system 
of TV and TV-Boobs in which TV-Boobs was the rating given to 
anything with nudity (boobs and down). That would pretty much solve 
the issue for the conservative people who worry about the human form.

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Mark Cyr 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I think Veoh got it right when they introduced the TV ratings 
scale in
 their directory to be applied by podcasters and suggested by 
viewers.
 
 With that said I always apply the explicit flag to all my posts 
even
 when certain directories say they are more PG-13, because it is our
 intention and attitude that our audience is a fun loving sexy 
group of
 folks over the age of 18...
 
 Mark
 This or That!
 America's Favorite Burlesque game Show
 http://thisorthat-video.blogspot.com
 
 --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Let's talk.
  
  It's a hot topic right now since our (Mefeedia) site chose one 
method
  to make the site 'safe for work' etc.
  
  Disclaimer: I want to talk as an individual, not as someone 
affiliated
  with Mefeedia.  That being said...
  
  There is a post on the Mefeedia blog that pointed out how 
content that
  might not be safe for work is handled.  The author of the post 
picked
  the first feed that they came across, it was never meant to 
single out
  anyone.  Apologies for singling out anyone that was not the 
intent at
  all.
  
  I've spent the morning listening to Richard's podcast.  And he's
  asking questions...I have some answers, as an individual, not as 
a
  spokesperson of mefeedia.
  
  Why do we need do cover up images like a vagina smoking a 
cigarette
  (for example)?  Personally, I know that kids will find porn 
online,
  that's not why I feel some images need to be categorized 
or 'covered
  up'.  I feel it is important for browsing at work or something 
like
  that, maybe over at my parent's places, etc.  So here I am 
browsing
  around and I get explicit images on the screen, my boss comes in 
my
  office and thinks I am browsing porn.
  
  I have no problem with porn, trust me...you should see my
  collection...It has nothing to do with monetization, etc.  It's 
about
  having a site that everyone can use anywhere, in a school, in a
  library, etc.
  
  Freedom of speech is thrown around right and left, but if a 
review of
  someone's feed isn't appreciated, then it's 'a bad' review, or
  un-fair.  How does that work?
  
  I have questions.  How do the other sites handle content?  How 
do we
  as a community make sites that everyone, anyone can watch 
anywhere?
  
  There are several feeds that have been flagged as potential adult
  content, not just the one, there are 25 of them.  But I agree 
that
  there should be some dialog with the producers of the feeds 
before
  they get flagged, that's where Mefeedia did go wrong, agreed.  
The
  process is being refined.  It's not the content of the video 
that I
  feel needs to be indentified, it's the thumbnails.
  
  
  --
  ~Devlon
  Blog: http://devlond.blogspot.com
  Vlog: http://8bitme.blogspot.com
  
  http://mefeedia.com -OR- http://mefeedia.com/blog
 








 
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Joan Khoo




The ol' forbidden fruit. Be honest now, weren't you the same kids who
snuck a peek at Playboy a few years back? Parental Advisory is for
parents to be aware and keep their kids out of trouble. The kids' job
is to get into trouble. :) The best we can do is to warn viewers
because its really up to their disgression.
Joan
On 1/11/06, Paul Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My only problem with a rating system is the same as if you put a
Parental Advisary sticker on something, the kids are attracted to it
like flies. The only way for Porn blogs to survive is to go down
the pay per view route.Thats my 2pencePaul Knight


  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread David Meade

exactly.  putting a rating on something isn't about oh this will
prevent kids from getting at it  its about the producer being able to
say I've given what information I can to help parents judge the
content

On 1/10/06, Joan Khoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The ol' forbidden fruit. Be honest now, weren't you the same kids who snuck
 a peek at Playboy a few years back? Parental Advisory is for parents to be
 aware and keep their kids out of trouble. The kids' job is to get into
 trouble. :) The best we can do is to warn viewers because its really up to
 their disgression.
  Joan


 On 1/11/06, Paul Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  My only problem with a rating system is the same as if you put a Parental
 Advisary sticker on something, the kids are attracted to it like flies.  The
 only way for Porn blogs to survive is to go down the pay per view route.
 
 
  Thats my 2pence
 
 
  Paul Knight
 
 



  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Christopher Weagel

Yes I have.

I wasn't clear enough. My apologies.

That law should be struck down and openly defied whenever possible.

Imposing some sort of bullshit ratings system on yourself is  
admitting that the freaks who advocate such censorship are correct.

Why? Because you're buying into the bullshit idea that images and  
pixels and words are somehow dangerous in of themselves.

It's ultimately a denial of thought.

Why be so eager to readily please and submit to these monsters?

Chris Weagel
www.human-dog.com



On Jan 10, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Ms. Kitka wrote:

 Pick up a camera and go make something, stop wasting time on children
 who have assholes for parents.

 Oh, come on... haven't you ever heard of the Child Protection and
 Obscenity Enforcement Act?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_USC_Section_2257

 Kitka






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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Christopher Weagel

Enric

I'm telling people what to think?

What the hell does that even mean?

Or in reference to?

Here's the Zappa clip:
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2658805?htv=12

Chris Weagel



On Jan 10, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Enric wrote:

 Sorry, weagel but your telling people what to think

   -- Enric

 --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Oh JESUS CHRIST!

 I know that.

 That wasn't the point.

 See Frank Zappa's appearance on Crossfire from the 80s for more info.

 Chris Weagel


 On Jan 10, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Joan Khoo wrote:

 Do not deny them but do not underestimate them.
 Images and pixels and words can be dangerous, for the pen is
 mightier than the sword.




 On 1/11/06, Christopher Weagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yes I have.

 I wasn't clear enough. My apologies.

 That law should be struck down and openly defied whenever possible.

 Imposing some sort of bullshit ratings system on yourself is
 admitting that the freaks who advocate such censorship are correct.

 Why? Because you're buying into the bullshit idea that images and
 pixels and words are somehow dangerous in of themselves.

 It's ultimately a denial of thought.

 Why be so eager to readily please and submit to these monsters?

 Chris Weagel
 www.human-dog.com



 On Jan 10, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Ms. Kitka wrote:

 Pick up a camera and go make something, stop wasting time on
 children
 who have assholes for parents.

 Oh, come on... haven't you ever heard of the Child Protection and
 Obscenity Enforcement Act?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_USC_Section_2257

 Kitka






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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

excuse me but...None of us have absolute knowledge.I think its clear that i indeed have absolute knowledge.
fyi.sullOn 1/10/06, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes, that may not be exactly accurate.What it looks like to me (andI'm open to be proven wrong on this or anything else I state) is thatyou're saying people should just accept a value system you think istrue.To say rating are bullshit without rational argument and
considering that they may be valid is a way of imposing a perspectiveon other's views and deny the validity of other knowledge.None of ushave absolute knowledge.And to predetermine what is true..callothers who disagree as freaks appears as a denial of others knowledge
and thinking.-- EnricImposing some sort of bullshit ratings system on yourself is admitting that the freaks who advocate such censorship are correct.--- In
videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Enric I'm telling people what to think? What the hell does that even mean?
Or in reference to? Here's the Zappa clip: http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2658805?htv=12 Chris Weagel
On Jan 10, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Enric wrote: Sorry, weagel but your telling people what to think -- Enric --- In
videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Oh JESUS CHRIST! I know that.
That wasn't the point. See Frank Zappa's appearance on Crossfire from the 80s for more info. Chris Weagel
On Jan 10, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Joan Khoo wrote: Do not deny them but do not underestimate them. Images and pixels and words can be dangerous, for the pen is
mightier than the sword. On 1/11/06, Christopher Weagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes I have. I wasn't clear enough. My apologies. That law should be struck down and openly defied whenever possible.
Imposing some sort of bullshit ratings system on yourself is admitting that the freaks who advocate such censorship are correct. Why? Because you're buying into the bullshit idea that images and
pixels and words are somehow dangerous in of themselves. It's ultimately a denial of thought. Why be so eager to readily please and submit to these monsters?
Chris Weagel www.human-dog.com On Jan 10, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Ms. Kitka wrote:
Pick up a camera and go make something, stop wasting time on children who have assholes for parents.
Oh, come on... haven't you ever heard of the Child Protection and Obscenity Enforcement Act?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_USC_Section_2257 Kitka
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[videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Enric

This discussion is probably annoying, off course and I'm getting
philosophical abstract again (sorry, it's what I like to do --
treading now into moral philosophy.)  But my point is that declaring
something wrong in absolute terms and people who disagree as idiots
doesn't leave room for discussion and discovery.

I want to say I don't mean to be antagonistic to you, Chris.  I really
appreciate much of the work you do and look forward to it.  But I
disagree with some of the declarations.

  -- Enric

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Yes, that may not be exactly accurate.  What it looks like to me (and
 I'm open to be proven wrong on this or anything else I state) is that
 you're saying people should just accept a value system you think is
 true.  To say rating are bullshit without rational argument and
 considering that they may be valid is a way of imposing a perspective
 on other's views and deny the validity of other knowledge.  None of us
 have absolute knowledge.  And to predetermine what is true..call
 others who disagree as freaks appears as a denial of others knowledge
 and thinking.  
 
   -- Enric
  
 Imposing some sort of bullshit ratings system on yourself is
  admitting that the freaks who advocate such censorship are correct.
 
 --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Enric
  
  I'm telling people what to think?
  
  What the hell does that even mean?
  
  Or in reference to?
  
  Here's the Zappa clip:
  http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2658805?htv=12
  
  Chris Weagel
  
  
  
  On Jan 10, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Enric wrote:
  
   Sorry, weagel but your telling people what to think
  
 -- Enric
  
   --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
   Oh JESUS CHRIST!
  
   I know that.
  
   That wasn't the point.
  
   See Frank Zappa's appearance on Crossfire from the 80s for more
info.
  
   Chris Weagel
  
  
   On Jan 10, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Joan Khoo wrote:
  
   Do not deny them but do not underestimate them.
   Images and pixels and words can be dangerous, for the pen is
   mightier than the sword.
  
  
  
  
   On 1/11/06, Christopher Weagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Yes I have.
  
   I wasn't clear enough. My apologies.
  
   That law should be struck down and openly defied whenever
possible.
  
   Imposing some sort of bullshit ratings system on yourself is
   admitting that the freaks who advocate such censorship are
correct.
  
   Why? Because you're buying into the bullshit idea that images and
   pixels and words are somehow dangerous in of themselves.
  
   It's ultimately a denial of thought.
  
   Why be so eager to readily please and submit to these monsters?
  
   Chris Weagel
   www.human-dog.com
  
  
  
   On Jan 10, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Ms. Kitka wrote:
  
   Pick up a camera and go make something, stop wasting time on
   children
   who have assholes for parents.
  
   Oh, come on... haven't you ever heard of the Child Protection and
   Obscenity Enforcement Act?
  
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_USC_Section_2257
  
   Kitka
  
  
  
  
  
  
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Visit your group videoblogging on the web.
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.

2006-01-10 Thread Joan Khoo

Hail the all-knowing Sull?
On 1/11/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Enric I'm telling people what to think? What the hell does that even mean?

Or in reference to? Here's the Zappa clip: http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2658805?htv=12
Chris Weagel
On Jan 10, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Enric wrote: Sorry, weagel but your telling people what to think -- Enric --- In

videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Oh JESUS CHRIST! I know that.
That wasn't the point. See Frank Zappa's appearance on Crossfire from the 80s for more info. Chris Weagel
On Jan 10, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Joan Khoo wrote: Do not deny them but do not underestimate them. Images and pixels and words can be dangerous, for the pen is
mightier than the sword. On 1/11/06, Christopher Weagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Yes I have. I wasn't clear enough. My apologies. That law should be struck down and openly defied whenever possible.

Imposing some sort of bullshit ratings system on yourself is admitting that the freaks who advocate such censorship are correct. Why? Because you're buying into the bullshit idea that images and
pixels and words are somehow dangerous in of themselves. It's ultimately a denial of thought. Why be so eager to readily please and submit to these monsters?
Chris Weagel www.human-dog.com
On Jan 10, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Ms. Kitka wrote:
Pick up a camera and go make something, stop wasting time on children who have assholes for parents.
Oh, come on... haven't you ever heard of the Child Protection and Obscenity Enforcement Act?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_USC_Section_2257 Kitka
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.




if you must. ;-)On 1/10/06, Joan Khoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hail the all-knowing Sull?
On 1/11/06, Michael Sullivan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




excuse me but...None of us have absolute knowledge.
I think its clear that i indeed have absolute knowledge. 
fyi.sullOn 1/10/06, Enric 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes, that may not be exactly accurate.What it looks like to me (andI'm open to be proven wrong on this or anything else I state) is thatyou're saying people should just accept a value system you think istrue.To say rating are bullshit without rational argument and
considering that they may be valid is a way of imposing a perspectiveon other's views and deny the validity of other knowledge.None of ushave absolute knowledge.And to predetermine what is true..callothers who disagree as freaks appears as a denial of others knowledge
and thinking.-- EnricImposing some sort of bullshit ratings system on yourself is admitting that the freaks who advocate such censorship are correct.--- In 


videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Enric I'm telling people what to think? What the hell does that even mean?


 Or in reference to? Here's the Zappa clip: http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2658805?htv=12
 Chris Weagel
 On Jan 10, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Enric wrote:  Sorry, weagel but your telling people what to think   -- Enric   --- In 


videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Oh JESUS CHRIST!   I know that. 
  That wasn't the point.   See Frank Zappa's appearance on Crossfire from the 80s for more info.   Chris Weagel  
  On Jan 10, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Joan Khoo wrote:   Do not deny them but do not underestimate them.  Images and pixels and words can be dangerous, for the pen is
  mightier than the sword.  On 1/11/06, Christopher Weagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  Yes I have.   I wasn't clear enough. My apologies.   That law should be struck down and openly defied whenever possible.


   Imposing some sort of bullshit ratings system on yourself is  admitting that the freaks who advocate such censorship are correct.   Why? Because you're buying into the bullshit idea that images and
  pixels and words are somehow dangerous in of themselves.   It's ultimately a denial of thought.   Why be so eager to readily please and submit to these monsters?
   Chris Weagel  www.human-dog.com 
On Jan 10, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Ms. Kitka wrote:
   Pick up a camera and go make something, stop wasting time on  children  who have assholes for parents. 
  Oh, come on... haven't you ever heard of the Child Protection and  Obscenity Enforcement Act?   


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_USC_Section_2257   Kitka 
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://vlogdir.com - The Videoblog Directory
http://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere Aggregator 
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: PORN, yes, I said it PORN.




Weagel taught me everything I know.On 1/10/06, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
if you must. ;-)On 1/10/06, Joan Khoo 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Hail the all-knowing Sull?
On 1/11/06, Michael Sullivan 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




excuse me but...None of us have absolute knowledge.
I think its clear that i indeed have absolute knowledge. 
fyi.sullOn 1/10/06, Enric 


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes, that may not be exactly accurate.What it looks like to me (andI'm open to be proven wrong on this or anything else I state) is thatyou're saying people should just accept a value system you think istrue.To say rating are bullshit without rational argument and
considering that they may be valid is a way of imposing a perspectiveon other's views and deny the validity of other knowledge.None of ushave absolute knowledge.And to predetermine what is true..callothers who disagree as freaks appears as a denial of others knowledge
and thinking.-- EnricImposing some sort of bullshit ratings system on yourself is admitting that the freaks who advocate such censorship are correct.--- In 



videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Enric I'm telling people what to think? What the hell does that even mean?



 Or in reference to? Here's the Zappa clip: http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2658805?htv=12
 Chris Weagel
 On Jan 10, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Enric wrote:  Sorry, weagel but your telling people what to think   -- Enric   --- In 



videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Oh JESUS CHRIST!   I know that. 
  That wasn't the point.   See Frank Zappa's appearance on Crossfire from the 80s for more info.   Chris Weagel  
  On Jan 10, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Joan Khoo wrote:   Do not deny them but do not underestimate them.  Images and pixels and words can be dangerous, for the pen is
  mightier than the sword.  On 1/11/06, Christopher Weagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



  Yes I have.   I wasn't clear enough. My apologies.   That law should be struck down and openly defied whenever possible.



   Imposing some sort of bullshit ratings system on yourself is  admitting that the freaks who advocate such censorship are correct.   Why? Because you're buying into the bullshit idea that images and
  pixels and words are somehow dangerous in of themselves.   It's ultimately a denial of thought.   Why be so eager to readily please and submit to these monsters?
   Chris Weagel  www.human-dog.com 
On Jan 10, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Ms. Kitka wrote:
   Pick up a camera and go make something, stop wasting time on  children  who have assholes for parents. 
  Oh, come on... haven't you ever heard of the Child Protection and  Obscenity Enforcement Act?   



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_USC_Section_2257   Kitka 
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[videoblogging] Re: Porn --and possible solutions

2005-12-04 Thread Enric

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Frank Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Sunday, December 4, 2005, 2:47:21 PM, Nerissa (TheVideoQueen) wrote:
Why the LET PEOPLE PICK A CATEGORY argument will fail:
Not everyone will tag their videos correctly ...
And what about the ambiguous videos? ...
 
 Definately.
 
POSSIBLE SOLUTION #1:
Let your community regulate itself and ban members for
  misbehaving. Use the Craigslist.org model. Allow your visitors to
  flag the posts.
 
 This solution will work, but only in the way that it will

POSSIBLE SOLUTION #2:
Restrict adult category to a separate category requiring
  different service agreements and viewership agreements.
 
 What worries me about both these approaches is that (despite your
 mention of ambiguous videos above) they both assume that (a) the
 only thing people are concerned with is porn, 

I don't see that assumption.  This is to deal with an issue that has
come up recently in several places related to videoblogs.  Other
issues can be dealt with seperately.  Because one issue like porn or
violence, etc. is dealt with does not exclude dealing with other
issues seperately.

and (b) that somehow
 there is an objective definition of what porn is.
 

A determination does not have to be 100% correct to be useful.  99% or
even as low as 90% determination can often be more useful than no
determination.  If the FDA determines that a drug that kills 3% of
it's users should be banned even though it's useful for 97% of the
others, it can still be a valid determination.

 Neither of these assumptions really hold up in the wider context of
 a global internet and varying world cultures.

Should cannabilism films be allowed because some cultures had or have
that practice?

I do think that predetermining a video as adult by the hosting owner
or a proxy is a good method as long as appeal is allowed.  If people
are looking to put up porn, there are locations that specificaly host
them.

  -- Enric
  
  http://www.cirne.com
  Determine the Media



 
 Not that you are the only one to fall foul of this misunderstanding -
 the much-lauded Yahoo mediaRSS specification embodies the same naive
 assumptions.
 
 May I propose a POSSIBLE SOLUTION #3:
 
 STEP 1: informative (rather than evaluative) tagging.
 
 Tagging is growing in popularity enormously - everywhere I look on the
 web these days I tagging systems. This is enormously useful and
 valuable. However, there is an (IMHO) unfortunatel trend toward
 evaluative rather than informative tagging.
 
 Evaluative tagging is the kind used by the watchthis tag on
 deli.icio.us, for example. I subscribe to this tag feed, and have seen
 plenty of things on it that I would not have tagged in that way.
 
 Informative tagging on the other hand is the kind that helps a
 potential audience understand the nature of the content before being
 exposed to it. Tagging a piece with a location, author, participants,
 length, format, etc. are a common form of informative tagging, but so
 would contains tags such as nudity sexual violence Christian
 evangelism, capitalism, swearing, flag burning.
 
 The advantage of informative tagging is that it allows each viewer to
 construct his or her own filters appropriate to his or her own culture
 and views. This avoids the problem of global definitions and allows
 people to potentially reject anything they don't want to see, be it
 porn, advertisments, George Bush, or whatever.
 
 STEP 2: trust relationships in tagging.
 
 Current tagging systems are essentially anonymous and untrusted. The
 value they have is based generally on weight of numbers. The more
 people who tag a particular item with a particular tag, the more
 likely it is assumed to be valid.
 
 It might be better (particularly for items with relatively few tags or
 taggers) if somehow the potential viewer could assign trust levels to
 particular taggers. If (for example) I really trust Jay Dedman's
 taste, then I can give his tags more weight than someone I have never
 encountered.
 
 This becomes particularly important when tagging is used to filter out
 unwanted material.
 
 STEP 3: a quarantine process.
 
 The problem with tagging as a filter mechanism is that (at present)
 it's only realistically possible to filter for positives. I can
 already ask several services to give me a feed of all items tagged
 with java AND software AND development, for example, but asking
 for all items NOT tagged with Microsoft is crazy talk.
 
 The main problem is that there is always a delay between an item
 appearing and it accumulating enough tags to be useful. Current
 systems add new items to a feed or category only when an appropriate
 tag is applied, but an exclusive feed that worked in the same way
 would never add any items.
 
 A quarantine process would certainly slow down the immediacy of items
 appearing in categories and feeds, but could provide a better quality
 of exclusion. If newly released or

[videoblogging] re: Porn-- and possible soultions

2005-12-04 Thread Nerissa \(TheVideoQueen\)

The advantage of informative tagging is that it allows each viewer to construct his or her own filters appropriate to his or her own culture and views. This avoids the problem of global definitions and allows people to potentially reject anything they don't want to see, be it porn, advertisments, George Bush, or whatever.Hi Frank, If I understood you correctly, this informative taggin is also voluntary on the part of the person who submitted the media. My point is that you can't trust everyone to submit truthfully. Whether it's category or tags. Too many people arejust not computer savvy, or knowledable about what constitutes offensive etc. And then there's the jerks who go out of their way to shock and offend. Taggin is very helpful and I like this available option on video hosts. But I think it too would fail. Category, tags, and
community flagging (whistle blowing) may the combinationsolution forhosting providersthat don't generate enough income from donations to pay forscreening software systemsor human screeners. NerissaPS-- did you see yourcredit on freevideocoding?Nerissa Odenhttp://TheVideoQueen.com/blog.htmlhttp://FreeVideoCoding.comhttp://FreeMediaGuide.comhttp://FreeVideoEditing.comWhere do Women get answers to their video questions?http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/videowomen/__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [videoblogging] re: Porn-- and possible soultions

2005-12-04 Thread Joshua Kinberg

If you have a community of taggers then you can weight the tags such that things more commonly tagged X are pushed up in the list of items tagged X.Tags do not have to be a one to one relationship... in this way you can help minimize the effect of users simply trying to game the system. Of course, it requires a relatively active community of taggers to do this because you need more data. Thus, in the early stages of the system, before there is a lot of data, you may see disproportionate effects of single tags on single objects.
-joshOn 12/4/05, Nerissa (TheVideoQueen) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The advantage of informative tagging is that it allows each viewer to construct his or her own filters appropriate to his or her own culture and views. This avoids the problem of global definitions and allows
people to potentially reject anything they don't want to see, be it porn, advertisments, George Bush, or whatever.Hi Frank, If I understood you correctly, this informative taggin is also voluntary on the part of the person who submitted the media. My point is that you can't trust everyone to submit truthfully. Whether it's category or tags. Too many people arejust not computer savvy, or knowledable about what constitutes offensive etc. And then there's the jerks who go out of their way to shock and offend.
Taggin is very helpful and I like this available option on video hosts. But I think it too would fail. Category, tags, and
community flagging (whistle blowing) may the combinationsolution forhosting providersthat don't generate enough income from donations to pay forscreening software systemsor human screeners.
NerissaPS-- did you see yourcredit on freevideocoding?Nerissa Oden
http://TheVideoQueen.com/blog.htmlhttp://FreeVideoCoding.com
http://FreeMediaGuide.comhttp://FreeVideoEditing.comWhere do Women get answers to their video questions?
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/videowomen/__
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn --and possible solutions

2005-12-04 Thread Frank Carver

Sunday, December 4, 2005, 6:58:38 PM, Enric wrote:
 What worries me about both these approaches is that (despite your
 mention of ambiguous videos above) they both assume that (a) the
 only thing people are concerned with is porn, 
 I don't see that assumption.  This is to deal with an issue that has
 come up recently in several places related to videoblogs.  Other
 issues can be dealt with seperately.  Because one issue like porn or
 violence, etc. is dealt with does not exclude dealing with other
 issues seperately.

My point is that trying to put a special solution in place just for
whatever one group unilaterally defines as adult content is highly
likely to be ignored or circumvented by others with different views.

And it still doesn't address the big problem of how to avoid stumbling
on stuff that you, personally, would prefer to avoid.

On the other hand, if a solution is developed which allows:

+ anyone to produce whatever they think is acceptable,
+ anyone to host/publish whatever they think is acceptable,
+ anyone to tag items with as much detail as they wish,
+ anyone to configure their filters to see only the things they want to.

We might actually be able to have both the freedom to produce what we
want, and the freedom to consume what we want.

 there is an objective definition of what porn is.
 A determination does not have to be 100% correct to be useful.  99% or
 even as low as 90% determination can often be more useful than no
 determination.  If the FDA determines that a drug that kills 3% of
 it's users should be banned even though it's useful for 97% of the
 others, it can still be a valid determination.

But in the drug case, I'd rather know the details and make up my own
mind. Wouldn't you?

 Neither of these assumptions really hold up in the wider context of
 a global internet and varying world cultures.

 Should cannabilism films be allowed because some cultures had or have
 that practice?

What I'm trying to get at is something like the idea that beauty is
in the eye of the beholder. I want every _receiver_ to be able to
decide what is objectionable, and thus what is filtered out and what
is left visible FOR THEM.

Surely it's up to me if I consider cannibalism, or gun-toting
policemen, or bare breasts, or whatever, objectionable and don't want
to see them. Why should I be forced to abide by _your_ categorisations
rather than my own?

 I do think that predetermining a video as adult by the hosting owner
 or a proxy is a good method as long as appeal is allowed.  If people
 are looking to put up porn, there are locations that specificaly host
 them.

I hope it's pretty obvious that no two people's classifications are
going to be identical. Would you wish to broadly label a whole source
as adult if their rules allow the occasional item in which is OK
with them but objectionable to you?

By all means have specialist source/host sites with their own rules.
Likewise, by all means have specialist aggregators and directories
with their own rules. But the point is that they will be _their_own_
rules. Which may not be your rules, or my rules.

So we will still need a tagging/filtering system. So why not think
about building a system from the start which addresses the whole
problem?

-- 
Frank Carver   http://www.makevideo.org.uk



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[videoblogging] Re: Porn --and possible solutions

2005-12-04 Thread Enric

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Frank Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Sunday, December 4, 2005, 6:58:38 PM, Enric wrote:
  What worries me about both these approaches is that (despite your
  mention of ambiguous videos above) they both assume that (a) the
  only thing people are concerned with is porn, 
  I don't see that assumption.  This is to deal with an issue that has
  come up recently in several places related to videoblogs.  Other
  issues can be dealt with seperately.  Because one issue like porn or
  violence, etc. is dealt with does not exclude dealing with other
  issues seperately.
 
 My point is that trying to put a special solution in place just for
 whatever one group unilaterally defines as adult content is highly
 likely to be ignored or circumvented by others with different views.
 
 And it still doesn't address the big problem of how to avoid stumbling
 on stuff that you, personally, would prefer to avoid.
 
 On the other hand, if a solution is developed which allows:
 
 + anyone to produce whatever they think is acceptable,
 + anyone to host/publish whatever they think is acceptable,
 + anyone to tag items with as much detail as they wish,
 + anyone to configure their filters to see only the things they want to.
 

I think it's a good and useful capability for people to create filters
for what they want to view.  The problem is in determining where a
media object belongs when and right after it is loaded on the host. 
It's contradictory that people should have to view and tag things as
objectionable to not have to view them.  Someone(s) needs to determine
the correct placement of media and if they're mostly accurate that is
useful.

  -- Enric


 We might actually be able to have both the freedom to produce what we
 want, and the freedom to consume what we want.
 
  there is an objective definition of what porn is.
  A determination does not have to be 100% correct to be useful.  99% or
  even as low as 90% determination can often be more useful than no
  determination.  If the FDA determines that a drug that kills 3% of
  it's users should be banned even though it's useful for 97% of the
  others, it can still be a valid determination.
 
 But in the drug case, I'd rather know the details and make up my own
 mind. Wouldn't you?
 
  Neither of these assumptions really hold up in the wider context of
  a global internet and varying world cultures.
 
  Should cannabilism films be allowed because some cultures had or have
  that practice?
 
 What I'm trying to get at is something like the idea that beauty is
 in the eye of the beholder. I want every _receiver_ to be able to
 decide what is objectionable, and thus what is filtered out and what
 is left visible FOR THEM.
 
 Surely it's up to me if I consider cannibalism, or gun-toting
 policemen, or bare breasts, or whatever, objectionable and don't want
 to see them. Why should I be forced to abide by _your_ categorisations
 rather than my own?
 
  I do think that predetermining a video as adult by the hosting owner
  or a proxy is a good method as long as appeal is allowed.  If people
  are looking to put up porn, there are locations that specificaly host
  them.
 
 I hope it's pretty obvious that no two people's classifications are
 going to be identical. Would you wish to broadly label a whole source
 as adult if their rules allow the occasional item in which is OK
 with them but objectionable to you?
 
 By all means have specialist source/host sites with their own rules.
 Likewise, by all means have specialist aggregators and directories
 with their own rules. But the point is that they will be _their_own_
 rules. Which may not be your rules, or my rules.
 
 So we will still need a tagging/filtering system. So why not think
 about building a system from the start which addresses the whole
 problem?
 
 -- 
 Frank Carver   http://www.makevideo.org.uk







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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??




Ah, of course. One might find one thing incredible valuable, and another would not.On 12/1/05, Digital Buddha 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


If financial worth is equal to audience interest and that interest is subjective, is financial worth then subjective?On 12/1/05, 
Devlon 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Depends on who's interested, it's subjective. That gives
community involvement more value. It's (ideally at least) a more
tempered view.
On 12/1/05, Digital Buddha [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:



I like your thinking Sull. Is worth based on interest? hmm...

- TedOn 12/1/05, Michael Sullivan 


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



if coke does a videoblog, i'd be happy to let it be listed in the vlogdir. i like coke.-- ~Devlon


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[videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

And both determination of value can be objective to the different make
up of those individuals.

  -- Enric
  http://www.cirne.com
  Determine the Media

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ah, of course.  One might find one thing incredible valuable, and
another
 would not.
 
 On 12/1/05, Digital Buddha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  If financial worth is equal to audience interest and that interest is
  subjective, is financial worth then subjective?
 
  On 12/1/05, Devlon  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   Depends on who's interested, it's subjective.  That gives community
   involvement more value.  It's (ideally at least) a more tempered
view.
  
  
   On 12/1/05, Digital Buddha [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
   
I like your thinking Sull. Is worth based on interest? hmm...
   
- Ted
   
On 12/1/05, Michael Sullivan  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 if coke does a videoblog, i'd be happy to let it be listed
in the
 vlogdir.
 i like coke.

   
  
   --
   ~Devlon
   http://mefeedia.com/
   See what we are up to:
   http://mefeedia.com/blog/
  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

And those in control of the make up of an individual's make up
(nature, nurture take your pick) are in control of the determination
of value.

And those with money and power may play a big role in one's make up,
so they can feed thier own value.

On 12/2/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  And both determination of value can be objective to the different make
  up of those individuals.

-- Enric
http://www.cirne.com
Determine the Media

  --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Ah, of course.  One might find one thing incredible valuable, and
  another
   would not.
  
   On 12/1/05, Digital Buddha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
If financial worth is equal to audience interest and that interest is
subjective, is financial worth then subjective?
   
On 12/1/05, Devlon  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Depends on who's interested, it's subjective.  That gives community
 involvement more value.  It's (ideally at least) a more tempered
  view.


 On 12/1/05, Digital Buddha [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
 
  I like your thinking Sull. Is worth based on interest? hmm...
 
  - Ted
 
  On 12/1/05, Michael Sullivan  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   if coke does a videoblog, i'd be happy to let it be listed
  in the
   vlogdir.
   i like coke.
  
 

 --
 ~Devlon
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 See what we are up to:
 http://mefeedia.com/blog/


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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

Ok, it's late...that first part didn't make sense, but you know what I mean.

On 12/2/05, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 And those in control of the make up of an individual's make up
 (nature, nurture take your pick) are in control of the determination
 of value.

 And those with money and power may play a big role in one's make up,
 so they can feed thier own value.

 On 12/2/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   And both determination of value can be objective to the different make
   up of those individuals.
 
 -- Enric
 http://www.cirne.com
 Determine the Media

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http://mefeedia.com/
See what we are up to:
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[videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

The number of factors, complexity and randomness of human
characteristics make it currently unlikely to precisely calculate
worth for a large population.  Another factor is that human beings are
volitional and self-determined, therefore self-creating.  So future
predictions are likely to fail.

  -- Enric

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Ted Tagami [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 What if financial worth (of videoblogs) is objective. That is, financial
 worth being something that is tangible, that actually exists. If this is
 true, then audience interest is objective (measurable). Moreover, a
formula
 could then be established to determine the financial worth of any given
 videoblog.
 
 Hey, they tried this in a very crude way already with a Weblogs inspired
 calculator:

http://www.business-opportunities.biz/projects/how-much-is-your-blog-worth/
 
 In a round about way back to fizzy-sugar-water, if Coke produces a video
 that creates audience interest, a value for that audience can be
 established. No question about it, the IP space is a huge vacuum and
Main
 Stream Media and Advertisers will be sucked into this space
throughout 2006.
 The key for all of us Creatives out there is to keep a strong clear
signal,
 and network.
 
 On 12/2/05, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Ah, of course.  One might find one thing incredible valuable, and
another
  would not.
 
  On 12/1/05, Digital Buddha  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   If financial worth is equal to audience interest and that
interest is
   subjective, is financial worth then subjective?
  
   On 12/1/05, Devlon  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
Depends on who's interested, it's subjective.  That gives
community
involvement more value.  It's (ideally at least) a more
tempered view.
   
   
On 12/1/05, Digital Buddha [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:

 I like your thinking Sull. Is worth based on interest? hmm...

 - Ted

 On 12/1/05, Michael Sullivan  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  if coke does a videoblog, i'd be happy to let it be listed
in the
  vlogdir.
  i like coke.
 

   
--
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http://mefeedia.com/
See what we are up to:
http://mefeedia.com/blog/
   
   
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??




Don't tell advertisers that ;)On 12/2/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




The number of factors, complexity and randomness of human
characteristics make it currently unlikely to precisely calculate
worth for a large population. Another factor is that human beings are
volitional and self-determined, therefore self-creating. So future
predictions are likely to fail.

 -- Enric
-- ~Devlonhttp://mefeedia.com/See what we are up to:http://mefeedia.com/blog/





  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

The smart ones know it and adjust to constant change ;)

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Devlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Don't tell advertisers that ;)
 
 On 12/2/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   The number of factors, complexity and randomness of human
  characteristics make it currently unlikely to precisely calculate
  worth for a large population.  Another factor is that human beings are
  volitional and self-determined, therefore self-creating.  So future
  predictions are likely to fail.
 
-- Enric
 
 
 --
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 See what we are up to:
 http://mefeedia.com/blog/







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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

2005-12-02 Thread Frank Carver

Friday, December 2, 2005, 6:42:08 AM, Deirdre Straughan wrote:
 My suggestion on the porn:
 Have a ratings system, so that everyone who submits a feed has to tag it
 rated G rated X or whatever.
 If a feed is rated X, replace any thumbnails with Adult Content or some
 such in a graphic.
 If someone clicks on an X-rated feed, make them go through a pop-up stating
 that they are over 18 (unless you start doing credit card verification -
 which I don't recommend - that's about the most protection you cna
 realistically offer).

I don't think it would work leaving the categorizing to the submitter.
I can imagine plenty of reasons why someone might (deliberately or
accidentally) mis-categorize something.

The way the net seems to be going at the the moment is to use the
power of the numbers. I'd suggest a system where anything can be
tagged with anything by anybody, but certain tags are
standardized/promoted and processed as specially significant. So even
if the original submitter rates a piece as mild humour, many others
might rate it as violent porn.

Directories and aggregators could then make sensible decisions based
on the weight of public opinion.

Oh, and _please_ folks, let whatever system is developed apply
tags/ratings to _individual_items_ rather than whole feeds. However
tempting it may seem to simplify the problem by blocking/allowing a
whole feed, in practice items in a feed vary wildly.

Perhaps some sort of quarantine or moderation queue for feeds that
have had items tagged with these kinds of attributes. That way worried
readers/viewers can wait until more sturdy individuals have had a
chance to look at stuff.

-- 
Frank Carver   http://www.makevideo.org.uk



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[videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Bill Day


yes it is part of life... but much of this discussion is related to kids 
encountering this stuff. 
I like to use this illustration in that regard. 

http://www.missionarypositionsmovie.com/kiddyspam.jpg

People find it irresponsible to create a picture like this, but then support 
who the @[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
cares if we see a dick type of attitude. 

Ironic. 


--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rishey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Do you ask yourself why it is that you think people shouldn't see porn? Some 
 of you 
make 
 mention of 'self policing' the community? Do you realize what that sentence 
 means? 
Don't 
 we have enough policing?
 
 What is going to happen if you accidentally see a penis or a vagina? NOTHING. 
 THese are 
 distractions. THis is life. ANd to be wrapped up in the issue of what is 
 decent and what 
is 
 not is to be part of the problem. 
 
 Hello- In a few decades the land your standing on could be underwater. Our 
 world is at 
 war based on complete deception and implemented by torture.   Who the fuck 
 cares if 
you 
 see a goddamned dick? There are plenty of Owellian directories such as itunes 
 which will 
 remove such material. Itunes recently removed my insanefilms.com from their 
 directory 
 with no explanation. 
 
 No censorship. If you are afraid to see penises, then subscribe to Rocketboom 
 and 
watch 
 nothing else.
 
 If you're talking about SPAM, however, that is another matter entirely. 
 
 Richard Bluestein
 podshow.com







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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

2005-12-02 Thread Deirdre Straughan




On 12/2/05, Frank Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think it would work leaving the categorizing to the submitter.I can imagine plenty of reasons why someone might (deliberately oraccidentally) mis-categorize something.
Yes, of course, but... I don't think that any of the sites which
purport to review everything before allowing it to be posted have set
themselves a reasonable task. As video on the Internet explodes
exponentially, no single group or company (except maybe Google) can
afford the human resources to review that much footage. 

I'm assuming that the rest of your post advocates reactive tagging,
where something would be reviewed only if flagged as nasty by someone.
Which does seem the only sensible approach, as long as you don't get
mischief-makers randomly tagging everything as rotten just to keep you
busy.
best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com (work)


  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Michael Ridley

Well I certainly agree that people should be allowed to put whatever content they so choose on their web site, filtered or not. My issue is with this spreading conventional wisdom that seems to state that we all have some inherent, deep, and fundamental responsiblity to sanitize what we can and firewall what we can't in abject terror of the remote possibility that some small child might stumble upon it.
Certainly if some private directory or archive chooses not to include pornographic material (or any other kind) that is their perogative. But this sense that if one chooses not to do so they are in some way morally inferior is itself repugnant to me.
And again the question of whether or not it's wise to conduct said parental filtering of the world for children is a whole other topic of discussion. And a can of worms probably best unopened. While I would agree that showing a 4-year-old Full Metal Jacket is on the gratuitous side, I think you equally do a disservice to one's (older) children by trying to shield them too much. After all, this world is a horrible, mean, petty, shallow, and opportunistic place that will chew you up, shred you, and spit you back out again for round two if you let down your guard. It's all well and good that we try to create a haven in our home that's as sheltered from that cruel reality as we can. But raising a kid in a cocoon and then thrusting them out, helpless and unprepared, to be bled dry by the world once they graduate from school doesn't seem like such a wise choice.
-mOn 12/2/05, Deirdre Straughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I agree with you on that. I have never tried to protect my daughter,
beyond giving her what words of wisdom I could from a very early age.
We had a discussion about this in this group back in March, and I wrote
about my attitude/solutions back then:
http://beginningwithi.com/tech/kidsonline.html

However, there are those who do feel responsible for what is seen on
their site (not least because they could face legal liabilities),
that's their choice as much as it's yours to do nothing to filter.

On 12/2/05, Michael Ridley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The point is - it is not my responsibility to filter my site
(or my life in general) in the event that some child might happen upon
it. There's this concept called parental responsibility.
It's a doctrine which puts forth the concept that if you are going to
have children, then that's an active exercise which requires full
participation for approximately 16 to 18 years.
-- best regards,Deirdré Straughan
www.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com (work)

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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

2005-12-02 Thread Wong Teck Jung

we should have an authority to rate a vlog. just like netiba
On 12/2/05, Deirdre Straughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On 12/2/05, Frank Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I don't think it would work leaving the categorizing to the submitter.
  I can imagine plenty of reasons why someone might (deliberately or
  accidentally) mis-categorize something.

  Yes, of course, but... I don't think that any of the sites which purport to
 review everything before allowing it to be posted have set themselves a
 reasonable task. As video on the Internet explodes exponentially, no single
 group or company (except maybe Google) can afford the human resources to
 review that much footage.

  I'm assuming that the rest of your post advocates reactive tagging, where
 something would be reviewed only if flagged as nasty by someone. Which does
 seem the only sensible approach, as long as you don't get mischief-makers
 randomly tagging everything as rotten just to keep you busy.

 best regards,
 Deirdré Straughan

 www.beginningwithi.com (personal)
 www.tvblob.com (work)

  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

2005-12-02 Thread Deirdre Straughan




On 12/2/05, Wong Teck Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
we should have an authority to rate a vlog. just like netiba
I've never heard of NetIBA before (just looked it up), which may or may
not prove anything. But, for a business with money behind it, there is
incentive to pay for something like that. Most vloggers, whether or not
they would actively resist such an authority, certainly wouldn't be
inclined to pay for it.-- best regards,Deirdré Straughanwww.beginningwithi.com (personal)www.tvblob.com
 (work)


  




  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

2005-12-02 Thread Wong Teck Jung

perhaps someone's willing to do sth like vlog-monitor?
On 12/2/05, Deirdre Straughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On 12/2/05, Wong Teck Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  we should have an authority to rate a vlog. just like netiba

  I've never heard of NetIBA before (just looked it up), which may or may not
 prove anything. But, for a business with money behind it, there is incentive
 to pay for something like that. Most vloggers, whether or not they would
 actively resist such an authority, certainly wouldn't be inclined to pay
 for it.

 --

 best regards,
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

2005-12-02 Thread Pete Prodoehl

petertheman wrote:
 Hey Jay,
 yes, I noticed it as well. It was inevitable, I am actually surprised
 it took this long..

 Any comments? 

Well, it's sad, but as a directory, I suppose it's something you have to 
deal with. Some ideas...

I wouldn't go with G, PG, X type ratings... As mentioned, 'adult' 
doesn't always mean X, etc. Perhaps following the iTunes model of 
marking things as 'mature' or 'explicit' or whatever might work.

For people not logged in, I would filter out all 'mature' content. For 
people who are logged in, provide a checkbox for whether they want 
'mature' content displayed to them or not. Don't the various search 
engines do something similar with the results they display?

There's a distinction between 'porn' and 'kid-safe' - I mean, if it's a 
video of someone fully clothed, screaming obscenities and being violent, 
it's probably not something I want my kids to see. (And I *definitely* 
don't want them seeing porn.)

I've noticed a few podcasters will often note in the beginning of their 
podcast if it's 'not safe for work' which usually means it contains 
obscenities or mature subject matter. Could videobloggers do the same? I 
know that I'm sometimes not even sure if I should want videos in FireANT 
when my kids are in the room.

Pete

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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia?? - Porn on blogtelevision too

2005-12-02 Thread Jay dedman

 I have to say I feel concerned about the free distribution of adult
 and violent videos by individuals, versus the law-abiding, lawyer-
 retaining mainstream producers who have to keep on file documents
 regarding the actor's age, animal welfare, explosives permits, etc.

 So my question is; How do we know that the person(s) in the
 submitted videos are adult-consenting actors, or if they're possibly
 actual victims of a crime or abuse?

you dont.
its the internet, a free exchange of everything.
bad things will show up. there is darkness.

several years ago, there was a site called bumfights.com...where you
could buy a DVD of homeless alcoholics and crackheads doing crazy shit
in order to feed their addiction.
pulling out their own teeth, getting tattoos on their forehead, taking
a shit in the middle of a busy street. it was filmed by some SoCal
skaters.
They sold thousands of DVD;s.
and then they got sued by activist lawyers on behalf of the homeless guys.

but the site is still up. bumfights.com. i guess they won the court case.
should there be laws against having this on the web? no.
so much more good comes from this unfettered, unformatted playground as well.
there are already plenty of laws in the world that keep people safe.
we can use those.
we dont need different laws for the internet to curb people's behavior.

Jay


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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??






" On 12/2/05, 
Frank Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  I don't think it 
would work leaving the categorizing to the submitter.  I can imagine 
plenty of reasons why someone might (deliberately or  accidentally) 
mis-categorize something."

I suspect we are going to 
soon have questions of "legal responsibility" arising with those who host free 
posting sites.

Are they responsible for 
libelous, obscene or criminal material published on thier site? Would 
stated guidelines (i.e"Those using our services are expected to obey and respect 
all laws.") be a defense? Or would they be responsible for removing 
something only after a complaint was filed and it was brought to their 
attention?

I think "leaving 
categorizing to the submitter" would work if guidelines said "works considered 
to be adult in nature" should be so labeled. Works containing overt 
sexuality and/or nudity should also be labeled, 
etc.

I've seen sites where you 
have to declare you are over eighteen years of age to enter and view. 
Wouldn't such techniques work with saucy vlogs?

Randolfe (Randy) Wicker

Videographer, Writer, ActivistAdvisor: The Immortality 
InstituteHoboken, NJhttp://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/201-656-3280



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Wong Teck 
  Jung 
  To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:29 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on 
  mefeedia??
  we should have an authority to rate a vlog. just like 
  netibaOn 12/2/05, Deirdre Straughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: On 12/2/05, Frank Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:  I don't think it would work leaving the categorizing to 
  the submitter.  I can imagine plenty of reasons why someone might 
  (deliberately or  accidentally) mis-categorize 
  something. Yes, of course, but... I don't think that any 
  of the sites which purport to review everything before allowing it to 
  be posted have set themselves a reasonable task. As video on the 
  Internet explodes exponentially, no single group or company (except 
  maybe Google) can afford the human resources to review that much 
  footage. I'm assuming that the rest of your post 
  advocates "reactive" tagging, where something would be reviewed only 
  if flagged as nasty by someone. Which does seem the only sensible 
  approach, as long as you don't get mischief-makers randomly tagging 
  everything as rotten just to keep you busy. best 
  regards, Deirdré Straughan www.beginningwithi.com 
  (personal) www.tvblob.com (work) 
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[videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

2005-12-02 Thread petertheman


 I wouldn't go with G, PG, X type ratings... As mentioned, 'adult' 
 doesn't always mean X, etc. Perhaps following the iTunes model of 
 marking things as 'mature' or 'explicit' or whatever might work.
 
 For people not logged in, I would filter out all 'mature' content. For 
 people who are logged in, provide a checkbox for whether they want 
 'mature' content displayed to them or not. Don't the various search 
 engines do something similar with the results they display?

Good ideas. I am taking the light approach here: take it easy on the
fixes. Step by step. In a month or two, I am sure we'll add some more
features.

 There's a distinction between 'porn' and 'kid-safe' 

yes. The kidsafe tag is a good example:
http://mefeedia.com/tags/kidsafe


 know that I'm sometimes not even sure if I should want videos in
FireANT 
 when my kids are in the room.

Yep. It's a complex issue. I just want to make sure we provide
solutions that scale and that work, but don't censor. There is enough
censorship out there.

Peter





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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Michael Sullivan

thanks... and yeah I agree - censoring is prob the wrong way to go. be more innovative and yes, proactive, and prob have better success.if its easy to find the content geared for children, then the chances of them browsing the directory and seeing adult content is greatly reduced, generally speaking.
sullOn 12/2/05, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe the opposite approach would be logical? Instead of filtering the not for kids stuff, filter the kid friendly stuff. And include a warning on site stating that there may be adult content within, but check out our kid-friendly zone here
You can then have categories/tags/sections of kid safe video content which could be many things and is up to the directory curators to decide how best to approach that. My point is, IF the concern for children resides in the sites owner and IF they care to put effort towards designating a section on the site geared for children education and entertainment etc, then this could take care of most of the aforementioned issues maybe ;-)
great idea. very proactive.eric rice and ryanne made a kidsafe feed a while back for eric's kids.http://video.ericrice.com/videoblogs/ANTresearch.mov
but i think the feed died out.see this is a great idea: a kidsafe directory.itll come as content grows.im not interested in censoring, but in organizing and educating.everything will exist. we can simply chose where.
Jay--Adventures in VideobloggingURL: http://www.momentshowing.nethttp://feeds.feedburner.com/Momentshowing
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Michael Sullivan




hmm.. and its sorta like a video rental store in that way ;)On 12/2/05, Michael Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:thanks... and yeah I agree - censoring is prob the wrong way to go. be more innovative and yes, proactive, and prob have better success.
if its easy to find the content geared for children, then the chances of them browsing the directory and seeing adult content is greatly reduced, generally speaking. 
sullOn 12/2/05, Jay dedman 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Maybe the opposite approach would be logical? Instead of filtering the not for kids stuff, filter the kid friendly stuff. And include a warning on site stating that there may be adult content within, but check out our kid-friendly zone here
 You can then have categories/tags/sections of kid safe video content which could be many things and is up to the directory curators to decide how best to approach that. My point is, IF the concern for children resides in the sites owner and IF they care to put effort towards designating a section on the site geared for children education and entertainment etc, then this could take care of most of the aforementioned issues maybe ;-)
great idea. very proactive.eric rice and ryanne made a kidsafe feed a while back for eric's kids.
http://video.ericrice.com/videoblogs/ANTresearch.mov
but i think the feed died out.see this is a great idea: a kidsafe directory.itll come as content grows.im not interested in censoring, but in organizing and educating.everything will exist. we can simply chose where.
Jay--Adventures in VideobloggingURL: http://www.momentshowing.net
http://feeds.feedburner.com/Momentshowing
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-- sull- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and revelation from which new form is born
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

2005-12-02 Thread Pete Prodoehl

petertheman wrote:
 
know that I'm sometimes not even sure if I should want videos in
 FireANT 
when my kids are in the room.

 Yep. It's a complex issue. I just want to make sure we provide
 solutions that scale and that work, but don't censor. There is enough
 censorship out there.

Agreed. I'm in favor of free-speech, and against censorship. I see this 
more as a matter of classifying content, which is what people seem to 
always suggest they want anyway, and why tagging has gotten so big in 2005.

Pete

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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Pete Prodoehl

Jay dedman wrote:
   Maybe the opposite approach would be logical?
Instead of filtering the not for kids stuff, filter the kid friendly 
stuff.
And include a warning on site stating that there may be adult content 
within, but check out our kid-friendly zone here
You can then have categories/tags/sections of kid safe video content which 
could be many things and is up to the directory curators to decide how best 
to approach that.
My point is, IF the concern for children resides in the sites owner and IF 
they care to put effort towards designating a section on the site geared for 
children education and entertainment etc, then this could take care of most 
of the aforementioned issues maybe ;-)
 
 
 great idea. very proactive.
 eric rice and ryanne made a kidsafe feed a while back for eric's kids.
 http://video.ericrice.com/videoblogs/ANTresearch.mov
 but i think the feed died out.
 see this is a great idea: a kidsafe directory.
 itll come as content grows.
 
 im not interested in censoring, but in organizing and educating.
 everything will exist. we can simply chose where.

Well, we already have yahooligans.yahoo.com, what about 
kids.mefeedia.com? :)

It would be cool to be able to point kids to a videoblogging directory 
and let them explore what's there. Sometimes the most creative stuff 
comes from kids and the way they look at the world. You know, before the 
reality of it all crushes their spirit and makes them just another cog 
in the corporate machine that is today's society.

Pete

-- 
http://tinkernet.org/
videoblog for the future...




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[videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Randolfe Wicker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Michael, vlogdirty is really a great name!  If only I were a
pornographer...:)
 
 
 Randolfe (Randy) Wicker
 
 Videographer, Writer, Activist
 Advisor: The Immortality Institute
 Hoboken, NJ
 http://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/
 201-656-3280

It's never too late.

   ;),

   Enric
   http://www.cirne.com
   Determine the Media

 
 
   - Original Message - 
   From: Michael Sullivan 
   To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com 
   Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 10:31 PM
   Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??
 
 
   i think i will setup a new section called vlogdirty... the porn room.
   ;-)
 
   sull
 
 
   On 12/1/05, petertheman  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, andrew michael baron
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I don't think you should be required to sensor anything if you
dont
  want to. In order to gain a lasting trust with the users of your 
  system, however, I think it would be important for you to
provide a
  rating system for adult content.
 
  Its not just for kids - I would like to see an alert that gave
me a
  chance to know that a video was porn or violent BEFORE I
discovered 
  that from watching it.  I have seen so many disturbing war
killings
  and violent sex acts recently via sites like del.icio.us and
  blogdigger that I really do feel changed in a negative way and if 
  asked, I would have declined the opportunity to see them. It's
as if
  I have lived through a generation of global psychological
tragedy in
  a single season.
 
 Andrew, that's a really valuable comment, thanks. I will work on
it. 
 We want videoblogging to be a positive experience, and limiting
 exposure to certain types of video (without censoring) is a part of
 that. I agree with that.
 
 Peter
 --
 http://mefeedia.com 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Aggregator 
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Michael Ridley




Of course it will. In the same way that the kids section of Blockbuster interests parents. There seems to be this view in our culture lately that kids are like little grownups and they just go and do whatever they want and so society has to protect them. That perspective is...not even wrong..it's just non-sensical. Parents make the rules. Parents enforce the limits.
If there is a kids section of a web site, then presumably that's what the parents would sit down and look at with their children. Just like parents will steer their children to the kids section of the video store. It's not like parents just let their young children loose out in the world and let them wander around XXX movie theatres all day long. Perhaps some parents DO do that, but that's not my problem - that's their problem for being bad parents. And I'm pretty sure that if you have a 4 year old wandering around the red light district trying to get into peep shows, having a law requiring the establishment to card them and not let them in is probably not going to put that kid back on the right path and keep them from car jacking me in 10 years. They're probably well on that path already due to very poor parenting.
-mOn 12/2/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Jay dedman wrote:
  Maybe the opposite approach would be logical?
 Instead of filtering the not for kids stuff, filter the kid
friendly stuff.
 And include a warning on site stating that there may be adult
content within, but check out our kid-friendly zone here
 You can then have categories/tags/sections of kid safe video
content which could be many things and is up to the directory curators
to decide how best to approach that.
 My point is, IF the concern for children resides in the sites
owner and IF they care to put effort towards designating a section on
the site geared for children education and entertainment etc, then
this could take care of most of the aforementioned issues maybe ;-)
  
  
  great idea. very proactive.
  eric rice and ryanne made a kidsafe feed a while back for eric's kids.
  http://video.ericrice.com/videoblogs/ANTresearch.mov
  but i think the feed died out.
  see this is a great idea: a kidsafe directory.
  itll come as content grows.
  
  im not interested in censoring, but in organizing and educating.
  everything will exist. we can simply chose where.
 
 Well, we already have yahooligans.yahoo.com, what about 
 kids.mefeedia.com? :)
 
 It would be cool to be able to point kids to a videoblogging directory 
 and let them explore what's there. Sometimes the most creative stuff 
 comes from kids and the way they look at the world. You know, before
the 
 reality of it all crushes their spirit and makes them just another cog 
 in the corporate machine that is today's society.
 
 Pete
 
 -- 
 http://tinkernet.org/
 videoblog for the future...


I remember when I was a kid I didn't want to read books for children
but those adults thought were important. I think I kids section will
interest parents mostly.

 -- Enric










  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

Is there a correlation between a child going to a peep show and
turning into a thief later?  Don't laws already prohibit adult
establishments from allowing minors in?  Aren't they already zoned in
cities?  Should those laws be eliminated because they restrict the
choices and/or availablity of adults?

  -- Enric

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Ridley
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Of course it will.  In the same way that the kids section of Blockbuster
 interests parents.  There seems to be this view in our culture
lately that
 kids are like little grownups and they just go and do whatever they
want and
 so society has to protect them.  That perspective is...not even
wrong..it's
 just non-sensical.  Parents make the rules.  Parents enforce the limits.
 
 If there is a kids section of a web site, then presumably that's
what the
 parents would sit down and look at with their children.  Just like
parents
 will steer their children to the kids section of the video store. 
It's not
 like parents just let their young children loose out in the world
and let
 them wander around XXX movie theatres all day long.  Perhaps some
parents DO
 do that, but that's not my problem - that's their problem for being bad
 parents.  And I'm pretty sure that if you have a 4 year old
wandering around
 the red light district trying to get into peep shows, having a law
requiring
 the establishment to card them and not let them in is probably not
going to
 put that kid back on the right path and keep them from car jacking
me in
 10 years.  They're probably well on that path already due to very poor
 parenting.
 
 -m
 
 On 12/2/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  
   Jay dedman wrote:
  Maybe the opposite approach would be logical?
   Instead of filtering the not for kids stuff, filter the kid
  friendly stuff.
   And include a warning on site stating that there may be adult
  content within, but check out our kid-friendly zone here
   You can then have categories/tags/sections of kid safe video
  content which could be many things and is up to the directory curators
  to decide how best to approach that.
   My point is, IF the concern for children resides in the sites
  owner and IF they care to put effort towards designating a section on
  the site geared for children education and entertainment etc, then
  this could take care of most of the aforementioned issues
maybe ;-)
   
   
great idea. very proactive.
eric rice and ryanne made a kidsafe feed a while back for
eric's kids.
http://video.ericrice.com/videoblogs/ANTresearch.mov
but i think the feed died out.
see this is a great idea: a kidsafe directory.
itll come as content grows.
   
im not interested in censoring, but in organizing and educating.
everything will exist. we can simply chose where.
  
   Well, we already have yahooligans.yahoo.com, what about
   kids.mefeedia.com? :)
  
   It would be cool to be able to point kids to a videoblogging
directory
   and let them explore what's there. Sometimes the most creative stuff
   comes from kids and the way they look at the world. You know, before
  the
   reality of it all crushes their spirit and makes them just
another cog
   in the corporate machine that is today's society.
  
   Pete
  
   --
   http://tinkernet.org/
   videoblog for the future...
  
 
  I remember when I was a kid I didn't want to read books for children
  but those adults thought were important.  I think I kids section will
  interest parents mostly.
 
-- Enric
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Michael Sullivan




the kid can also google porn and BOOYA!!of course some kids may be a little too curious too soon...but we should discuss the issue broadly and generalize, knowing that their are always exceptions.no solution will ever be perfect. 
On 12/2/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jay dedman wrote:  Maybe the opposite approach would be logical?
 Instead of filtering the not for kids stuff, filter the kidfriendly stuff. And include a warning on site stating that there may be adultcontent within, but check out our kid-friendly zone here
 You can then have categories/tags/sections of kid safe videocontent which could be many things and is up to the directory curatorsto decide how best to approach that. My point is, IF the concern for children resides in the sites
owner and IF they care to put effort towards designating a section onthe site geared for children education and entertainment etc, thenthis could take care of most of the aforementioned issues maybe ;-)
great idea. very proactive.  eric rice and ryanne made a kidsafe feed a while back for eric's kids.  
http://video.ericrice.com/videoblogs/ANTresearch.mov  but i think the feed died out.  see this is a great idea: a kidsafe directory.  itll come as content grows.   im not interested in censoring, but in organizing and educating.
  everything will exist. we can simply chose where. Well, we already have yahooligans.yahoo.com, what about 
kids.mefeedia.com? :) It would be cool to be able to point kids to a videoblogging directory and let them explore what's there. Sometimes the most creative stuff comes from kids and the way they look at the world. You know, before
the reality of it all crushes their spirit and makes them just another cog in the corporate machine that is today's society. Pete -- 
http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future...I remember when I was a kid I didn't want to read books for childrenbut those adults thought were important.I think I kids section will
interest parents mostly.-- Enric Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today!
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Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- sull- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and revelation from which new form is born
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://vlogdir.com - The Videoblog Directoryhttp://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere Aggregator 
http://interdigitate.com - on again off again personal vlog





  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Sullivan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 the kid can also google porn and BOOYA!!
 of course some kids may be a little too curious too soon...
 but we should discuss the issue broadly and generalize, knowing that
their
 are always exceptions.
 no solution will ever be perfect.
 

Definately, it's usually a mistake to wait until a perfect solution is
constructed; you miss on things like HTML, RSS, OPML, etc.  I think
it's also an error to see sex as a all or nothing proposition:  either
it's completely available and al is allowed or completely restricted
and walled in.  Human being do have the capability to make rational,
objective decisions and policy on material that denigrates a group of
people whether by race, sex, ethnicity, etc.

  -- Enric
  

 
 On 12/2/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  
   Jay dedman wrote:
  Maybe the opposite approach would be logical?
   Instead of filtering the not for kids stuff, filter the kid
  friendly stuff.
   And include a warning on site stating that there may be adult
  content within, but check out our kid-friendly zone here
   You can then have categories/tags/sections of kid safe video
  content which could be many things and is up to the directory curators
  to decide how best to approach that.
   My point is, IF the concern for children resides in the sites
  owner and IF they care to put effort towards designating a section on
  the site geared for children education and entertainment etc, then
  this could take care of most of the aforementioned issues
maybe ;-)
   
   
great idea. very proactive.
eric rice and ryanne made a kidsafe feed a while back for
eric's kids.
http://video.ericrice.com/videoblogs/ANTresearch.mov
but i think the feed died out.
see this is a great idea: a kidsafe directory.
itll come as content grows.
   
im not interested in censoring, but in organizing and educating.
everything will exist. we can simply chose where.
  
   Well, we already have yahooligans.yahoo.com, what about
   kids.mefeedia.com? :)
  
   It would be cool to be able to point kids to a videoblogging
directory
   and let them explore what's there. Sometimes the most creative stuff
   comes from kids and the way they look at the world. You know, before
  the
   reality of it all crushes their spirit and makes them just
another cog
   in the corporate machine that is today's society.
  
   Pete
  
   --
   http://tinkernet.org/
   videoblog for the future...
  
 
  I remember when I was a kid I didn't want to read books for children
  but those adults thought were important.  I think I kids section will
  interest parents mostly.
 
-- Enric
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 sull
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and
revelation
 from which new form is born
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 http://vlogdir.com - The Videoblog Directory
 http://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere
Aggregator
 http://interdigitate.com - on again off again personal vlog







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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Joshua Paul

Not that this thread hasn't run it's course, but I do like one suggestion that was made, and I sincerely hope that Peter takes it into serious consideration. The suggestion was to "safe filter" by default, much the way Google does for image searches. Considering how "public" (both figuratively and financially) Google is, I feel they devised a very good solution; the filter is easy enough to disable should you desire to.My 2¢.- joshpaulOn Dec 2, 2005, at 9:17 AM, Michael Sullivan wrote: the kid can also google porn and BOOYA!!of course some kids may be a little too curious too soon...but we should discuss the issue broadly and generalize, knowing that their are always exceptions.no solution will ever be perfect. On 12/2/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jay dedman wrote: Maybe the opposite approach would be logical? Instead of filtering the "not for kids" stuff, filter the "kidfriendly" stuff. And include a warning on site stating that "there may be adultcontent within, but check out our kid-friendly zone here" You can then have categories/tags/sections of kid safe videocontent which could be many things and is up to the directory curatorsto decide how best to approach that. My point is, IF the concern for children resides in the sites owner and IF they care to put effort towards designating a section onthe site geared for children education and entertainment etc, thenthis could take care of most of the aforementioned issues maybe ;-) great idea. very proactive. eric rice and ryanne made a kidsafe feed a while back for eric's kids. http://video.ericrice.com/videoblogs/ANTresearch.mov but i think the feed died out. see this is a great idea: a kidsafe directory. itll come as content grows. im not interested in censoring, but in organizing and educating. everything will exist. we can simply chose where. Well, we already have yahooligans.yahoo.com, what about kids.mefeedia.com? :) It would be cool to be able to point kids to a videoblogging directory and let them explore what's there. Sometimes the most creative stuff comes from kids and the way they look at the world. You know, before the reality of it all crushes their spirit and makes them just another cog in the corporate machine that is today's society. Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future...I remember when I was a kid I didn't want to read books for childrenbut those adults thought were important. I think I kids section will interest parents mostly. -- Enric Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/I258zB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM~- Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- sull- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -"The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and revelation from which new form is born" - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://vlogdir.com - The Videoblog Directoryhttp://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere Aggregator http://interdigitate.com - on again off again personal vlog SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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[videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 17:10:10 +0100, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 wrote:
 
  Not all company (video)blogs are evil.
 
  im not making a judgement on the products...i just dont want my time
  hijacked by watching commercials.
 
 Thinking that companies will push out feeds of the 30 second
commercials  
 you see on tv is a little silly. No company is that fucking stupid
(well,  
 there'll be two and then it'll backfire and there'll be none).
 
 I'll take three of the latest Danish corporate blogs as examples.
They're  
 not videoblogs, but the point is the same.
 
   - Arken is a Danish museum. Their blog is written by a handful of  
 employees and they write about what goes on at a museum and other  
 art-related matters. It's a company, but why shouldn't they be
listed in  
 an Art category? Their blog is at: URL:  
 http://arken.blogs.com/arken_blog/ 
 
   - The Danish Patent and Trademark Office opened a weblog URL:  
 http://www.dkpto.dk/weblog/  where 17 out of their 240 knowledge
workers  
 blog about matters related to intellectual property laws. Why
shouldn't  
 they be included in a Legal category alongside the private lawyer?
 
   - Arla, the most evil Danish corporation (they have something like
90% of  
 the milk production in Denmark), started three weblogs. One is
authored by  
 a farmer and his wife. They blog about life on the farm and how it
is to  
 be a part of that big a corporation (actually every farmer is a
co-owner).  
 Why shouldn't they be listed under Farm life on equal terms with the  
 indie farmer? URL: http://www.arla.dk/weblogs/baekgaarden 
 
 I keep seeing this latent assumption that if a company is behind a  
 (video)blog then they don't have anything worthwhile to say. It's
just not  
 true. Of course you have to let the company know when they fuck up (if  
 they start sending 30 commercial clips out and calling it a vlog), but  
 this idea that as a company they can't make vlogs is just annoying
to no  
 end.
 
 - Andreas
 -- 
 URL:http://www.solitude.dk/
 Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.


Yes, it's quite ridiculous.

  -- Enric





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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Brad Webb

For me it's the thin edge of the wedge, and I think folks are focusing
more on oh no! it's porn! -- where's the line drawn? How long until
there's spvlogs, etc. Having a system in place to filter down -- not out
-- things that negatively impact the community and tools aren't a bad
thing, imho.

Michael Sullivan wrote:

the kid can also google porn and BOOYA!!
of course some kids may be a little too curious too soon...
but we should discuss the issue broadly and generalize, knowing that
their are always exceptions.
no solution will ever be perfect.

On 12/2/05, *Enric* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
mailto:videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Pete Prodoehl
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Jay dedman wrote:
Maybe the opposite approach would be logical?
Instead of filtering the not for kids stuff, filter the kid
friendly stuff.
And include a warning on site stating that there may be adult
content within, but check out our kid-friendly zone here
You can then have categories/tags/sections of kid safe video
content which could be many things and is up to the directory curators
to decide how best to approach that.
My point is, IF the concern for children resides in the sites
owner and IF they care to put effort towards designating a section on
the site geared for children education and entertainment etc, then
this could take care of most of the aforementioned issues
maybe ;-)

great idea. very proactive.
eric rice and ryanne made a kidsafe feed a while back for
eric's kids.
http://video.ericrice.com/videoblogs/ANTresearch.mov
but i think the feed died out.
see this is a great idea: a kidsafe directory.
itll come as content grows.

im not interested in censoring, but in organizing and educating.
everything will exist. we can simply chose where.

Well, we already have yahooligans.yahoo.com
http://yahooligans.yahoo.com, what about
kids.mefeedia.com http://kids.mefeedia.com? :)

It would be cool to be able to point kids to a videoblogging
directory
and let them explore what's there. Sometimes the most creative stuff
comes from kids and the way they look at the world. You know,
before
the
reality of it all crushes their spirit and makes them just
another cog
in the corporate machine that is today's society.

Pete

--
http://tinkernet.org/
videoblog for the future...

I remember when I was a kid I didn't want to read books for children
but those adults thought were important. I think I kids section will
interest parents mostly.

-- Enric

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

Yahoo! Groups Links

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
sull
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The hybrid or the meeting of two media is a moment of truth and
revelation from which new form is born
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://vlogdir.com - The Videoblog Directory
http://videobloggers.org - Free Videoblog Hosting / Vlogosphere
Aggregator
http://interdigitate.com - on again off again personal vlog

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[videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Eric Rice

I agree.

All I can do in this world is protect my own kids. I make the rules. So when I 
populate 
FireANT, I'm putting in the things like the kidsafe feed (which could be 
abused--but that's 
what parenting entails)

I also have a client that has TA in their video podcast. Mine is not to 
question why--- 
there's some content and there's an audience for that content.

One of the challenges I face is not being able to necessarily list that content 
in all places. 
And in theory, I can't even use OurMedia, since it could be argued that I am 
commercial (I 
constantly bring up the question: where does indie end and commercial begin? )

At any rate, I know it's difficult to always control everything a kid sees.. 
after all, I'm only 5 
years into the game. But there are a whole bunch of peripheral issues with 
that. Is the 
content wrong or right? I'm in California, where probably a lot more of my 
neighbors see 
no issue with the famous postcards from buster episode that could be 
viewed 
completely the opposite by some similar parent of age and demographic in 
another part of 
the country and/or world.

On the other hand, I do like reasonable ratings, either boolean or a sliding 
scale 1 for G, 2 
for PG (great for art/criminal/education issues of adult nature---) 3 for 
mature... it's not 
to try and label it but also to help clarify what it is... we do this with NSFW 
tags. And 
besides, does NSFW make a great marketing vehicle? ;-)

Just my thoughts.

ER




--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Ridley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 OK well now this is my pet peeve.  I want everyone to shut the fuck up about
 kids.  It is not the mission of the world to protect all children from
 anything that might be dangerous at any time in any place.  Now the whole
 subject of what is or isn't appropriate for kids to see is a huge can of
 worms that I am going to complete ignore because it's beside the point.
 
 The point is - it is not my responsibility to filter my site (or my life in
 general) in the event that some child might happen upon it.  There's this
 concept called parental responsibility.  It's a doctrine which puts forth
 the concept that if you are going to have children, then that's an active
 exercise which requires full participation for approximately 16 to 18 years.
 
 If you are so concerned about what material of an objectionable nature your
 kids may see, then set limits and don't let them see those things.  Sort of
 like how you might not let them wander around the red light district of
 Amsterdam on their own at 4 AM.  Same concept.  The correct solution here is
 for parents to step up and make rules and set limits, not to have some
 arbitrarily large net of responsibility that ensares and inhibits the rights
 of all adults everywhere.
 
 I will not be subjugated by the delicate and impressionable nature of 4 year
 olds.  That's a non-starter for me.
 
 -m
 
 On 12/2/05, Bill Day [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  yes it is part of life... but much of this discussion is related to kids
  encountering this stuff.
  I like to use this illustration in that regard.
 
  http://www.missionarypositionsmovie.com/kiddyspam.jpg
 
  People find it irresponsible to create a picture like this, but then
  support who the @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  cares if we see a dick type of attitude.
 
  Ironic.
 
 
  --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rishey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Do you ask yourself why it is that you think people shouldn't see porn?
  Some of you
  make
   mention of 'self policing' the community? Do you realize what that
  sentence means?
  Don't
   we have enough policing?
  
   What is going to happen if you accidentally see a penis or a vagina?
  NOTHING. THese are
   distractions. THis is life. ANd to be wrapped up in the issue of what is
  decent and what
  is
   not is to be part of the problem.
  
   Hello- In a few decades the land your standing on could be underwater.
  Our world is at
   war based on complete deception and implemented by torture.   Who the
  fuck cares if
  you
   see a goddamned dick? There are plenty of Owellian directories such as
  itunes which will
   remove such material. Itunes recently removed my insanefilms.com from
  their directory
   with no explanation.
  
   No censorship. If you are afraid to see penises, then subscribe to
  Rocketboom and
  watch
   nothing else.
  
   If you're talking about SPAM, however, that is another matter entirely.
  
   Richard Bluestein
   podshow.com
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
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[videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Bill Day

Randolfe, why are you so intolerant?  You have not seen the movie yet you judge 
it is sour 
puss evangelism VH-1 watched the movie and they thought it was funny enough 
to 
order a pilot for a reality series.  

check out the movie site 

http://www.missionarypositionsmovie.com 

and tell me what is sour puss about it? 

Here is the rottentomatoes review (which uses the word hilarious.) 

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/click/movie-10005116/reviews.php?
critic=allsortby=defaultpage=1rid=1371399

I think you are mixing up the non-christian filmmaker with christians who 
appear in the 
film. 

The Jpeg of the kids reading porn spam does make a point. I just think your 
fear of getting 
christians cooties is clouding your judgement.  

Bill Day
http://mebillday.blogspot.com




--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Randolfe Wicker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 That JPEG picture used  by Bill Day to make a point was actually the cover 
 picture for a 
Christian Evangelical group whose leader said God spoke to him and spoke of 
porn.  It 
was a sham.  
 
 I thought it was an attempt at off-color humor when I first saw it.  And, 
 yes, it was too 
interesting not to explore. What a disappointment to find a sour-puss 
Evangelical instead 
of tasteless sick comic in the video.
 
 And for that matter, the photo could hardly be called pornographic, it was 
 the wording 
and when you start censoring words you really are getting into censorship.
 
 
 Randolfe (Randy) Wicker
 
 Videographer, Writer, Activist
 Advisor: The Immortality Institute
 Hoboken, NJ
 http://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/
 201-656-3280
 
 
   - Original Message - 
   From: Bill Day 
   To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com 
   Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 4:48 AM
   Subject: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going 
 on.
 
 
 
   yes it is part of life... but much of this discussion is related to kids 
 encountering this 
stuff. 
   I like to use this illustration in that regard. 
 
   http://www.missionarypositionsmovie.com/kiddyspam.jpg
 
   People find it irresponsible to create a picture like this, but then 
 support who the 
@[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   cares if we see a dick type of attitude. 
 
   Ironic. 
 
 
   --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rishey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
Do you ask yourself why it is that you think people shouldn't see porn? 
 Some of you 
   make 
mention of 'self policing' the community? Do you realize what that 
 sentence means? 
   Don't 
we have enough policing?

What is going to happen if you accidentally see a penis or a vagina? 
 NOTHING. THese 
are 
distractions. THis is life. ANd to be wrapped up in the issue of what is 
 decent and 
what 
   is 
not is to be part of the problem. 

Hello- In a few decades the land your standing on could be underwater. 
 Our world is 
at 
war based on complete deception and implemented by torture.   Who the 
 fuck cares 
if 
   you 
see a goddamned dick? There are plenty of Owellian directories such as 
 itunes which 
will 
remove such material. Itunes recently removed my insanefilms.com from 
 their 
directory 
with no explanation. 

No censorship. If you are afraid to see penises, then subscribe to 
 Rocketboom and 
   watch 
nothing else.

If you're talking about SPAM, however, that is another matter entirely. 

Richard Bluestein
podshow.com
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
   SPONSORED LINKS Individual  Fireant  Typepad  
 Use  
 
 
 

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 b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

Last year I was a projectionist at the Cinequest Film Festival in the University Theatre . A rucuous group of poeple came in, yelling, shouting, joking and having fun. Then they showed the film, "Missionary Positions" which I thought was well done and honest. I don't agree that porn is "bad" or "good". But the people who made the film have a quirky view of the world with some ideas that make sense. -- Enric--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Day" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Randolfe, why are you so intolerant? You have not seen the movie yet you judge it is sour puss evangelism VH-1 watched the movie and they thought it was funny enough to order a pilot for a reality series.check out the movie site http://www.missionarypositionsmovie.com and tell me what is sour puss about it? Here is the rottentomatoes review (which uses the word "hilarious.") http://www.rottentomatoes.com/click/movie-10005116/reviews.php? critic=allsortby=defaultpage=1rid=1371399 I think you are mixing up the non-christian filmmaker with christians who appear in the film. The Jpeg of the kids reading porn spam does make a point. I just think your fear of getting christians cooties is clouding your judgement.Bill Day http://mebillday.blogspot.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Randolfe Wicker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That JPEG picture used by Bill Day to make a point was actually the cover picture for a Christian Evangelical group whose leader said God spoke to him and spoke of "porn". It was a sham. I thought it was an attempt at off-color humor when I first saw it. And, yes, it was too interesting not to explore. What a disappointment to find a sour-puss Evangelical instead of tasteless sick comic in the video.And for that matter, the photo could hardly be called pornographic, it was the wording and when you start censoring words you really are getting into censorship. Randolfe (Randy) WickerVideographer, Writer, Activist Advisor: The Immortality Institute Hoboken, NJ http://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/ 201-656-3280- Original Message - From: Bill Day To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 4:48 AMSubject: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on. yes it is part of life... but much of this discussion is related to kids encountering this stuff. I like to use this illustration in that regard. http://www.missionarypositionsmovie.com/kiddyspam.jpg People find it irresponsible to create a picture like this, but then support "who the @[EMAIL PROTECTED] cares if we see a dick" type of attitude. Ironic. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Rishey" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you ask yourself why it is that you think people shouldn't see porn? Some of you make mention of 'self policing' the community? Do you realize what that sentence means? Don't we have enough policing? What is going to happen if you accidentally see a penis or a vagina? NOTHING. THese are distractions. THis is life. ANd to be wrapped up in the issue of what is decent and what is not is to be part of the problem. Hello- In a few decades the land your standing on could be underwater. Our world is at war based on complete deception and implemented by torture. Who the fuck cares if you see a goddamned dick? There are plenty of Owellian directories such as itunes which will remove such material. Itunes recently removed my insanefilms.com from their directory with no explanation. No censorship. If you are afraid to see penises, then subscribe to Rocketboom and watch nothing else. If you're talking about SPAM, however, that is another matter entirely. Richard Bluestein podshow.comSPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant TypepadUse --YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --

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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on mefeedia??

This discussion about labeling reminds me of
C-Span's coverage of a report on video games. They have a system with
terms to describe games not for those under eighteen, excessive violence,
etc. But, they find that most retailers (Best Buy being the lone
exception) sell these games rated for adults to eight year old "undercover
shoppers".

They also found that parents really didn't know
what some of the "labels" meant. Indeed, just like all these fine lines
between "adult" and XXX and "kidsafe" and "not good for work" and "GP"
etc.

They found that the categories filmmakers used were
the most familiar to the general public and actually suggested the film rating
system be applied to video games.

Even with films, you have all these nuances.
I love the warnings on Sundance that say "brief nudity". Would that cover
Janet Jackson's tit or would you have to see some full frontal
nude?

I even think they have a label "some
violence". Does that mean only one person gets decapitated? All of
these terms are so subjective.

Randolfe (Randy) Wicker

Videographer, Writer, ActivistAdvisor: The
Immortality InstituteHoboken, NJhttp://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/201-656-3280

- Original Message -
From:
petertheman
To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:50
AM
Subject: [videoblogging] Re: Porn on
mefeedia??
I wouldn't go with G, PG, X type ratings... As
mentioned, 'adult' doesn't always mean X, etc. Perhaps following the
iTunes model of marking things as 'mature' or 'explicit' or whatever
might work. For people not logged in, I would filter out all
'mature' content. For people who are logged in, provide a checkbox
for whether they want 'mature' content displayed to them or not.
Don't the various search engines do something similar with the
results they display?Good ideas. I am taking the "light" approach
here: take it easy on thefixes. Step by step. In a month or two, I am sure
we'll add some morefeatures. There's a distinction between
'porn' and 'kid-safe' yes. The kidsafe tag is a good example:http://mefeedia.com/tags/kidsafe
know that I'm sometimes not even sure if I should want videos inFireANT
when my kids are in the room.Yep. It's a complex issue. I
just want to make sure we providesolutions that scale and that work, but
don't censor. There is enoughcensorship out
there.Peter

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[videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread petertheman

It's a good idea, but requires more coding than I can muster right
now.. Will probably implement this in January..

Peter

 Not that this thread hasn't run it's course, but I do like one  
 suggestion that was made, and I sincerely hope that Peter takes it  
 into serious consideration. The suggestion was to safe filter by  
 default, much the way Google does for image searches. Considering how  
 public (both figuratively and financially) Google is, I feel they  
 devised a very good solution; the filter is easy enough to disable  
 should you desire to.
 
 My 2¢.
 
 - joshpaul
 
 On Dec 2, 2005, at 9:17 AM, Michael Sullivan wrote:
 
  the kid can also google porn and BOOYA!!
  of course some kids may be a little too curious too soon...
  but we should discuss the issue broadly and generalize, knowing  
  that their are always exceptions.
  no solution will ever be perfect.
 
 
  On 12/2/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
  wrote:
  
   Jay dedman wrote:
  Maybe the opposite approach would be logical?
   Instead of filtering the not for kids stuff, filter the kid
  friendly stuff.
   And include a warning on site stating that there may be adult
  content within, but check out our kid-friendly zone here
   You can then have categories/tags/sections of kid safe video
  content which could be many things and is up to the directory curators
  to decide how best to approach that.
   My point is, IF the concern for children resides in the sites
  owner and IF they care to put effort towards designating a section on
  the site geared for children education and entertainment etc, then
  this could take care of most of the aforementioned issues  
  maybe ;-)
   
   
great idea. very proactive.
eric rice and ryanne made a kidsafe feed a while back for  
  eric's kids.
http://video.ericrice.com/videoblogs/ANTresearch.mov
but i think the feed died out.
see this is a great idea: a kidsafe directory.
itll come as content grows.
   
im not interested in censoring, but in organizing and educating.
everything will exist. we can simply chose where.
  
   Well, we already have yahooligans.yahoo.com, what about
   kids.mefeedia.com? :)
  
   It would be cool to be able to point kids to a videoblogging  
  directory
   and let them explore what's there. Sometimes the most creative stuff
   comes from kids and the way they look at the world. You know, before
  the
   reality of it all crushes their spirit and makes them just  
  another cog
   in the corporate machine that is today's society.
  
   Pete
  
   --
   http://tinkernet.org/
   videoblog for the future...
  
 
  I remember when I was a kid I didn't want to read books for children
  but those adults thought were important.  I think I kids section will
  interest parents mostly.
 
-- Enric
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Paul Knight

sorry all this underneath rant was basically aimed at comments during the day, it bares nothing to the thread attached.On 2 Dec 2005, at 19:34, Paul Knight wrote: Hi randy and enric,Although I understand that both of you have probably non-issues with pornography, check out this please before you pass any judgement. What we have here is an adult site offering for free, not only 3 minute clips, but on some occations 30 minute clips of hardcore and specialised pornography, graphically showing the actors indulging in Bukaki, anal sex, bondage and fetish acts, which is as far away from the normal sexual act as you might expect to find on your top shelves, or even typing in "porn" in google, with or without the safety tabs on.My problem is this, it's free, and aimed at ipods, not computers. Yes the site is office friendly, because you must download it; none of these films are streaming, yet. I am neither a moralist or any kind of activist, but it's the kids who download this, pop it onto there ipods or psps or irivers, take them then into school and show this stuff around as they do, 'cos it's cool. Then getting their ipods confiscated and then the where did you get this stuff from? questions start to appear.paulOn 2 Dec 2005, at 18:24, Enric wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Randolfe Wicker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What format should you use to download if you do want to remix and post in a vlog??? They are vintage sad ravings. Randolfe (Randy) WickerVideographer, Writer, Activist Advisor: The Immortality Institute Hoboken, NJ http://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/ 201-656-3280 I'd download in the high qualty MPG4 and output in 3ivx quick start. -- Enric - Original Message - From: Markus Sandy To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on. right on! As to why? Perhaps the answers lie inside films like these classics from the internet archive: http://www.archive.org/details/Perversi1965 http://www.archive.org/details/Perversi1965_2 http://www.archive.org/details/parent_to_child_about_sex With a little re-mixing, they can become pretty interesting: http://www.archive.org/details/come_join_the_fun2004 markus Rishey wrote: Do you ask yourself why it is that you think people shouldn't see porn? Some of you make mention of 'self policing' the community? Do you realize what that sentence means? Don't we have enough policing? What is going to happen if you accidentally see a penis or a vagina? NOTHING. THese are distractions. THis is life. ANd to be wrapped up in the issue of what is decent and what is not is to be part of the problem. Hello- In a few decades the land your standing on could be underwater. Our world is at war based on complete deception and implemented by torture. Who the fuck cares if you see a goddamned dick? There are plenty of Owellian directories such as itunes which will remove such material. Itunes recently removed my insanefilms.com from their directory with no explanation. No censorship. If you are afraid to see penises, then subscribe to Rocketboom and watch nothing else. If you're talking about SPAM, however, that is another matter entirely. Richard Bluestein podshow.com -- My name is Markus Sandy and I am app.etitio.us http://apperceptions.org http://digitaldojo.blogspot.com http://spinflow.org http://wearethemedia.com http://www.corante.com/events/feedfest/ aim/ichat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: msandy spin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use -- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo!

[videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

In the podcast from the Blogher session Blogging for Business,
Christine Halvorson of Stonyfield Yogurt talks about how the president
of the company insisted on creating a company blog even though the
marketing department was in the beginning opposed to it:

Blogher related site
http://surfette.typepad.com/blogher/2005/11/blogher_audioca.html
http://tinyurl.com/ds29y

IT Conversations podcast of session
http://www.itconversations.com/series/blogher05.html
http://tinyurl.com/9cbmv

Stonyfield Farm Blog
http://www.stonyfield.com/weblog/

   -- Enric
   http://www.cirne.com
   Determine the Media

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I need to learn how to speak about my feelings of commercialization in
 the media.
 it never quite comes out right.
 nothing wrong with busness and profit and money...
 what is wrong is the amount of negative influence, explotation, and
 lack of respect for the community for which a company lives in.
 but as my punk upbringing has taught me: its not what they sell, its
 what we buy.
 
  Thinking that companies will push out feeds of the 30 second
commercials
  you see on tv is a little silly. No company is that fucking stupid
(well,
  there'll be two and then it'll backfire and there'll be none).
 
 i meant more the spam blogs. just like a majority of email is
 spam...my fear is that youll see feeds full of little commercials for
 whatever spam 'sells'.
 
 but as Sull mentioned, i can see tradtional companies sponsoring
 videoblogs that are entertaining or informattive.
 The Circuit City Tech Review where two cool, alternative hosts talk
 about the latest camcorders.
 
 snip
  I keep seeing this latent assumption that if a company is behind a
  (video)blog then they don't have anything worthwhile to say. It's
just not
  true. Of course you have to let the company know when they fuck up (if
  they start sending 30 commercial clips out and calling it a vlog), but
  this idea that as a company they can't make vlogs is just annoying
to no
  end.
 
 companies in the US have a very bad reputation for making content that
 is authentic or useful. usually they add their image/concept content
 to popular entertainment.
 I must look at their content in the subway car when i ride to work. I
 got to see their content on every phone booth. I hear it in the cab's
 radio between the news updates. i got to see it when i read the
 magazine and newspaper.  Their content is the TV.
 and what do i gain from their content?
 
 i cant think the last time a large US company made a piece of content
 that was worthwhile.
 when they do, ill be the first to subscribe.
 andreas, i hope there is a turning point here and companies will begin
 to create/sponsor material that is useful.
 
 jay







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[videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

LOL, quite obviously...

   -- Enric

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Paul Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 sorry all this underneath rant was basically aimed at comments during  
 the day, it bares nothing to the thread attached.
 On 2 Dec 2005, at 19:34, Paul Knight wrote:
 
  Hi randy and enric,
 
  Although I understand that both of you have probably non-issues  
  with pornography, check out this please before you pass any  
  judgement.  What we have here is an adult site offering for free,  
  not only 3 minute clips, but on some occations 30 minute clips of  
  hardcore and specialised pornography, graphically showing the  
  actors indulging in Bukaki, anal sex, bondage and fetish acts,  
  which is as far away from the normal sexual act as you might expect  
  to find on your top shelves, or even typing in porn in google,  
  with or without the safety tabs on.
  My problem is this, it's free, and aimed at ipods, not computers.   
  Yes the site is office friendly, because you must download it; none  
  of these films are streaming, yet.  I am neither a moralist or any  
  kind of activist, but it's the kids who download this, pop it onto  
  there ipods or psps or irivers, take them then into school and show  
  this stuff around as they do, 'cos it's cool.  Then getting their  
  ipods confiscated and then the where did you get this stuff from?  
  questions start to appear.
 
  paul
  On 2 Dec 2005, at 18:24, Enric wrote:
 
  --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Randolfe Wicker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
  
   What format should you use to download if you do want to remix and
  post in a vlog???  They are vintage sad ravings.
  
  
   Randolfe (Randy) Wicker
  
   Videographer, Writer, Activist
   Advisor: The Immortality Institute
   Hoboken, NJ
   http://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/
   201-656-3280
 
  I'd download in the high qualty MPG4 and output in 3ivx quick start.
 
-- Enric
 
  
  
 - Original Message -
 From: Markus Sandy
 To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:00 AM
 Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real
  life going on.
  
  
 right on!
  
 As to why?  Perhaps the answers lie inside films like these  
  classics
 from the internet archive:
  
 http://www.archive.org/details/Perversi1965
 http://www.archive.org/details/Perversi1965_2
 http://www.archive.org/details/parent_to_child_about_sex
  
 With a little re-mixing, they can become pretty interesting:
  
 http://www.archive.org/details/come_join_the_fun2004
  
 markus
  
  
 Rishey wrote:
  
 Do you ask yourself why it is that you think people shouldn't  
  see
  porn? Some of you make
 mention of 'self policing' the community? Do you realize what
  that sentence means? Don't
 we have enough policing?
 
 What is going to happen if you accidentally see a penis or a
  vagina? NOTHING. THese are
 distractions. THis is life. ANd to be wrapped up in the issue of
  what is decent and what is
 not is to be part of the problem.
 
 Hello- In a few decades the land your standing on could be
  underwater. Our world is at
 war based on complete deception and implemented by torture.
  Who
  the fuck cares if you
 see a goddamned dick? There are plenty of Owellian directories
  such as itunes which will
 remove such material. Itunes recently removed my insanefilms.com
  from their directory
 with no explanation.
 
 No censorship. If you are afraid to see penises, then subscribe
  to Rocketboom and watch
 nothing else.
 
 If you're talking about SPAM, however, that is another matter
  entirely.
 
 Richard Bluestein
 podshow.com
 
 
  
 --
  
 My name is Markus Sandy and I am app.etitio.us
  
 http://apperceptions.org
 http://digitaldojo.blogspot.com
 http://spinflow.org
 http://wearethemedia.com
 http://www.corante.com/events/feedfest/
  
 aim/ichat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 skype: msandy
 spin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
  
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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.






Something that is never mentioned in all this talk 
about "kids and adult content" is that if they are "too young", they won't find 
it interesting. If they find it interesting, they are probably old enough 
to be viewing it.

That was what was really wacky about that JPEG with 
two kids barely old enough to walk and talk supposedly saying what their email 
(porno) content was. They weren't old enough to go on a computer. If 
they were on a computer, they wouldn't know what the words meant.

Randolfe (Randy) Wicker

Videographer, Writer, ActivistAdvisor: The Immortality 
InstituteHoboken, NJhttp://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/201-656-3280



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael 
  Ridley 
  To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 12:02 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn 
  Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.
  Perhaps. I'd argue that that decision is up to their 
  parents. I firstgot online in 1992 or so, and I guess I would have 
  been about 12 or 13at the time. My parents didn't choose to be 
  involved in what I was orwas not looking at, content-wise. Granted 
  you could say that in 1992there wasn't much general awareness of the 
  "dangers" of being online,but my dad was savvy enough to know what was 
  up..he just didn't feelthe need to make an issue of it, because he felt I 
  had the commonsense to make appropriate choices.But who knows, for 
  some other parents, sure maybe they want to filterthat out. But the 
  point is, the onus is on the consumer (parent) noton the content 
  provider. As the saying goes, if you don't like it,don't watch 
  it.-mOn 12/2/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael 
  Ridley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
OK well now this is my pet peeve. I want 
  everyone to shut the fuck up about  
  kids. It is not the mission of the world to protect all children 
  from  anything that might be dangerous at any time in any 
  place. Now the whole  subject of what is 
  or isn't appropriate for kids to see is a huge can of  worms 
  that I am going to complete ignore because it's beside the 
  point.   The point is - it is not my 
  responsibility to filter my site (or my life in 
   general) in the event that some child might happen upon it. 
  There's this  concept called parental 
  responsibility. It's a doctrine which puts 
  forth  the concept that if you are going to have children, 
  then that's an active  exercise which requires 
  full participation for approximately 16 to 18 
  years.   If you are so concerned about 
  what material of an objectionable nature your  
  kids may see, then set limits and don't let them see those 
  things. Sort of  like how you might not let 
  them wander around the red light district of  Amsterdam on 
  their own at 4 AM. Same concept. The correct 
  solution here is  for parents to step up and 
  make rules and set limits, not to have some  arbitrarily 
  large net of responsibility that ensares and inhibits the 
  rights  of all adults everywhere. 
I will not be subjugated by the delicate and 
  impressionable nature of 4 year  olds. 
  That's a non-starter for me.   
  -m  So people under the age of 
  eighteen should be kept by adults from sites like 
  mefeedia? -- 
  Enric  On 12/2/05, Bill Day 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 yes it is part of life... but much of this 
  discussion is related to kids   
  encountering this stuff.   I like to use this 
  illustration in that regard. 
  http://www.missionarypositionsmovie.com/kiddyspam.jpg 
  People find it irresponsible to create a 
  picture like this, but then   support "who the 
  @[EMAIL PROTECTED]   cares if we see a dick" type of 
  attitude. 
  Ironic.  
   --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Rishey" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:   Do you ask 
  yourself why it is that you think people shouldn't see 
  porn?   Some of you   
  makemention of 'self policing' the community? Do 
  you realize what that   sentence means? 
Don'twe have enough 
  policing?   What is 
  going to happen if you accidentally see a penis or a vagina? 
NOTHING. THese aredistractions. THis 
  is life. ANd to be wrapped up in the issue of what 
  is   decent and what   
  isnot is to be part of the 
  problem.   Hello- In a 
  few decades the land your standing on could be 
  underwater.   Our world is at   
   war based on complete deception and implemented by torture. 
  Who the   fuck cares if   
  yousee a goddamned dick? There are plenty of 
  Owellian directories such as   itunes 
  which willremove such material. Itunes recently 
  removed my insanefilms.com from   their 
  directorywith no explanation.  
   No censorship. If you are afraid to see 
  penises, then subscribe to   Rocketboom 
  and   watchnothing 
  else.   If you're 
  t

Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.

2005-12-02 Thread Miss Amy




as an outsider, I read through all these responses. The back and
forth is hilarious! Ah- controversy is such the life spice.

I agree with whomever said- who the fuck cares if ANYONE sees someone's
pee-pee. That's the least of the disturbing things that exist on the
internet and the outside world for which it is a mirror. I'd be
more upset if my kid saw someone get shot on the TV. Death is worse
than sex. Censorship is worse than sex. Pee-pees good--- killing,
manipulating, discriminating bad.

www.hidingfromsociety.com

xox,
Amy from OhioOn 12/2/05, Randolfe Wicker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









Something that is never mentioned in all this talk 
about kids and adult content is that if they are too young, they won't find 
it interesting. If they find it interesting, they are probably old enough 
to be viewing it.

That was what was really wacky about that JPEG with 
two kids barely old enough to walk and talk supposedly saying what their email 
(porno) content was. They weren't old enough to go on a computer. If 
they were on a computer, they wouldn't know what the words meant.

Randolfe (Randy) Wicker

Videographer, Writer, ActivistAdvisor: The Immortality 
InstituteHoboken, NJhttp://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/201-656-3280




  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
  Michael 
  Ridley 
  To: 
videoblogging@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 12:02 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn 
  Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.
  Perhaps. I'd argue that that decision is up to their 
  parents. I firstgot online in 1992 or so, and I guess I would have 
  been about 12 or 13at the time. My parents didn't choose to be 
  involved in what I was orwas not looking at, content-wise. Granted 
  you could say that in 1992there wasn't much general awareness of the 
  dangers of being online,but my dad was savvy enough to know what was 
  up..he just didn't feelthe need to make an issue of it, because he felt I 
  had the commonsense to make appropriate choices.But who knows, for 
  some other parents, sure maybe they want to filterthat out. But the 
  point is, the onus is on the consumer (parent) noton the content 
  provider. As the saying goes, if you don't like it,don't watch 
  it.-mOn 12/2/05, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael 
  Ridley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
OK well now this is my pet peeve. I want 
  everyone to shut the fuck up about  
  kids. It is not the mission of the world to protect all children 
  from  anything that might be dangerous at any time in any 
  place. Now the whole  subject of what is 
  or isn't appropriate for kids to see is a huge can of  worms 
  that I am going to complete ignore because it's beside the 
  point.   The point is - it is not my 
  responsibility to filter my site (or my life in 
   general) in the event that some child might happen upon it. 
  There's this  concept called parental 
  responsibility. It's a doctrine which puts 
  forth  the concept that if you are going to have children, 
  then that's an active  exercise which requires 
  full participation for approximately 16 to 18 
  years.   If you are so concerned about 
  what material of an objectionable nature your  
  kids may see, then set limits and don't let them see those 
  things. Sort of  like how you might not let 
  them wander around the red light district of  Amsterdam on 
  their own at 4 AM. Same concept. The correct 
  solution here is  for parents to step up and 
  make rules and set limits, not to have some  arbitrarily 
  large net of responsibility that ensares and inhibits the 
  rights  of all adults everywhere. 
I will not be subjugated by the delicate and 
  impressionable nature of 4 year  olds. 
  That's a non-starter for me.   
  -m  So people under the age of 
  eighteen should be kept by adults from sites like 
  mefeedia? -- 
  Enric  On 12/2/05, Bill Day 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 yes it is part of life... but much of this 
  discussion is related to kids   
  encountering this stuff.   I like to use this 
  illustration in that regard. 
  http://www.missionarypositionsmovie.com/kiddyspam.jpg 
  People find it irresponsible to create a 
  picture like this, but then   support who the 
  @[EMAIL PROTECTED]   cares if we see a dick type of 
  attitude. 
  Ironic.  
   --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rishey [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:   Do you ask 
  yourself why it is that you think people shouldn't see 
  porn?   Some of you   
  makemention of 'self policing' the community? Do 
  you realize what that   sentence means? 
Don'twe have enough 
  policing?   What is 
  going to happen if you accidentally see a penis or a vagina? 
NOTHING. THese aredistractions. THis 
  is life. ANd to be wrapped up in the issue of what 
  is   decent and what   
  isnot is to be part of the 
  problem.   Hello- In a 
  few

Re: [videoblogging] Re: Porn Shmorn. Grow up! There's real life going on.