Re: [Vo]:New experiment started AC/DC
Chuck, I blew my wall wort power supplies. The IOIO board current for USB charging was set to low causing my phone to lose a connection with the board. This then caused the AC and DC supplies to short together. Which is not that big of a deal as I still have some that I haven't burned up yet. Really, I need to get some good power supplies with protection against things like that. The AC ones burn out pretty easily, so it is definitely better to pulse them on and off to give them time to cool. Anyway, I took that opportunity to relocate everything to my basement as the temperature variations in the garage add a complicating layer to all the measurements. At the same time, I got my temp sensors in from Atlas Scientific. I then hooked them up to the IOIO board and did the programming to measure the voltages and convert to temperature. They are working well. Just last night, I got everything set up again. I need to do a little more programming to save the recorded temperature values to a file. If I can get an AC power supply that will hold up, I'll do a several day automated run. 1. Run on DC only and see the max temp achieved. 2. Run on AC only and see the max temp achieved. 3. Run AC/DC switching and see the max temp achieved. I think in theory #3 should produce a max temp somewhere in between 1 and 2. If it's greater than 1 and 2, that would be very interesting. I'll make another video once I start running again. Jack On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:28 PM, Chuck Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Jack for the find. Good info. I love the idea of doing a CF experiment via an Android phone app. Just add a couple of thermistors and a hacked together current and voltage multi-meter function and you will have all necessary measurements for calorimetry data collection. How is the experiment going by the way? For the DC/AC do charge the nickel with H. So, on the DC cycle, you will want to nickel to be Cathod (-) this time. The idea with the AC, is you want as much hydrogen stuffed into the niickel lattice as you can get initially. Once the surface lattice is loaded several atoms deep, switch the current to AC. Summery; start high-current DC with Nickel as the Cathode (-) to infuse H into the Nickel lattice. Then apply AC to alternate the electro-motive forces on the H in the lattice. If you using two nickels in the AC/DC experiment, then the nickel on the (-) cathode should get hot during the AC cycle. The purpose of the AC is to create an EMF that will vibrate the H such that fusion probability increases. Best Regards, Chuck On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Chuck. It's a fun hobby. I don't program in Java having done so much in visual basic over the years. Fortunately, I found a language for Android that is very much like VB called Basic4Androidhttps://www.plimus.com/jsp/redirect.jsp?contractId=1715566referrer=1047706. It has a library for the IOIO board. On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Chuck Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for sharing the video Jack. I really like how your controlling that with and Android and IOIO microcontroller.I'm a beginner Android developer and the little IOIO PIC device is really cool.That is a great way of doing a duty cycle on the AC/DC. Here is a nice discussion on the IOIO (yo-yo) board for others that might be interested. http://androidcontrol.blogspot.com/2011/10/ioio-board-for-android-control-io.html Best Regards, Chuck On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 7:10 AM, Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com wrote: I shot a little video of my latest experiment with borax. It is controlled with an Android phone, IOIO microcontroller, and relay bank. I am switching back and forth between AC and DC current supplies. Pardon the mess of wires as I am early in the process. It is interesting how the electrolyte turns a copper brown color. That was after running 1 1/2 days on DC current at 5 to 13 watts. I'm using the same 8 nickels on the thoriated tungsten rod as a cathode and 4 stainless steel washers as the anode. There is more heating and almost no bubbles on AC. I'm not sure what brown color is about. I've seen this repeatedly. What I'm interested to try is to see the max temperature achieved by AC alone, then DC alone, and then AC and DC alternating for different periods of time. http://youtu.be/sH90M85S2mE Regards, Jack
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual ones and zeros of the neurons? You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. Jojo - Original Message - From: Patrick Ellul To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones and zeros on a memory device. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Any psychological/psychiatric/philosophical attempt to understand the soul is doom to failure from the onset. Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the operation of a PC from your understanding of the hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be severely incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that controls the behavior of the computer. Software controls the hardware. On the same token, experts in Psychology/Psychiatry/Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/etc, can never hope to completely understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - the soul, that controls the hardware consisting of your brain cells/neurons, etc. The Software soul is what needs to be understood for us to understand the behavior of man. You need to study the soul, not the brain. The brain is simply a mechanism that the soul controls much like the CPU chip is the mechanism that MS Windows controls. The analogy is apt and accurate. Hence, one is wasting their time trying to study all the ideas of these philosophers/psychologists/psychiatrists/etc. They are at best severely incomplete, at worst gravely misleading. If you want to understand the spiritual soul, go to the one who wrote the software soul. Study his book - the Bible to have a better understanding of human behavior. Jojo - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? I think Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff have the best explanation of consciousness to date. It's called Orchestrated Objective Reduction, or Orch-OR. The two actually developed the idea separately, Sir Penrose being a physicist and Hameroff being a physician who specialized in anesthesia and cancer research. Roger was seeking a model of the brain that did not require computation. Hameroff wanted to know how anesthesia worked and where the conscious went when under. Penrose theorizes that spacetime is granular at the size of the Planck length and that quantum superposition is linked to the curvature. Orchestrated Reduction is the collapse of the superposition. Hameroff brought in the neuron microtubles which provide the structure. He sees a synchronous oscillation in neural MT can influence other neurons. Together they see these electrons as a sea embedded in the geometry of spacetime. Needless to say, they have many critics. :-) -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever!
RE: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
John Berry wrote: Based on research and experimentation I am doing it is clear to me that quantum waves aren't just probability waves but are real waves in an actual gas/fluid/superfluid aether. Do tell John. Many Vorts love new hypotheses, especially when they have some data to go along with them. -Mark Iverson From: John Berry [mailto:berry.joh...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:13 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? Since there have been results of consciousness effecting quantum level events multiple times, why should it be so absurd. Based on research and experimentation I am doing it is clear to me that quantum waves aren't just probability waves but are real waves in an actual gas/fluid/superfluid aether. And while most Vorts would probably be unable to get their minds around this, it really does explain everything very neatly. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: Orch-OR is not the best theory of consciousness. So, who wins that prize? Well, while we await Giovanni's response, for those Vorts interested in the development of the concept, here is a list archive that I followed for years: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/quantum-mind/ Start at the bottom and just peruse the list and you will see famous and infamous physicists and philosophers who participated in the discussions. I found it absolutely fascinating.
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
For now I will pass. On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:16 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: John Berry wrote: “Based on research and experimentation I am doing it is clear to me that quantum waves aren't just probability waves but are real waves in an actual gas/fluid/superfluid aether.” ** ** Do tell John… Many Vorts love new hypotheses, especially when they have some data to go along with them. ** ** -Mark Iverson ** ** *From:* John Berry [mailto:berry.joh...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:13 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? ** ** Since there have been results of consciousness effecting quantum level events multiple times, why should it be so absurd. ** ** Based on research and experimentation I am doing it is clear to me that quantum waves aren't just probability waves but are real waves in an actual gas/fluid/superfluid aether. ** ** And while most Vorts would probably be unable to get their minds around this, it really does explain everything very neatly. ** ** ** ** On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: Orch-OR is not the best theory of consciousness. So, who wins that prize? Well, while we await Giovanni's response, for those Vorts interested in the development of the concept, here is a list archive that I followed for years: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/quantum-mind/ Start at the bottom and just peruse the list and you will see famous and infamous physicists and philosophers who participated in the discussions. I found it absolutely fascinating. ** **
Re: [Vo]:New experiment started AC/DC
There are some interesting pieces of equipment on this website that may be useful in experimenting. http://www.amazing1.com/hv-hf-power-supplies.htm In particular, I'm thinking the high frequency AC would be useful in inducing high surface current flow in the electrodes (i.e., Robert Godes method). On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com wrote: Chuck, I blew my wall wort power supplies. The IOIO board current for USB charging was set to low causing my phone to lose a connection with the board. This then caused the AC and DC supplies to short together. Which is not that big of a deal as I still have some that I haven't burned up yet. Really, I need to get some good power supplies with protection against things like that. The AC ones burn out pretty easily, so it is definitely better to pulse them on and off to give them time to cool. Anyway, I took that opportunity to relocate everything to my basement as the temperature variations in the garage add a complicating layer to all the measurements. At the same time, I got my temp sensors in from Atlas Scientific. I then hooked them up to the IOIO board and did the programming to measure the voltages and convert to temperature. They are working well. Just last night, I got everything set up again. I need to do a little more programming to save the recorded temperature values to a file. If I can get an AC power supply that will hold up, I'll do a several day automated run. 1. Run on DC only and see the max temp achieved. 2. Run on AC only and see the max temp achieved. 3. Run AC/DC switching and see the max temp achieved. I think in theory #3 should produce a max temp somewhere in between 1 and 2. If it's greater than 1 and 2, that would be very interesting. I'll make another video once I start running again. Jack On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:28 PM, Chuck Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Jack for the find. Good info. I love the idea of doing a CF experiment via an Android phone app. Just add a couple of thermistors and a hacked together current and voltage multi-meter function and you will have all necessary measurements for calorimetry data collection. How is the experiment going by the way? For the DC/AC do charge the nickel with H. So, on the DC cycle, you will want to nickel to be Cathod (-) this time. The idea with the AC, is you want as much hydrogen stuffed into the niickel lattice as you can get initially. Once the surface lattice is loaded several atoms deep, switch the current to AC. Summery; start high-current DC with Nickel as the Cathode (-) to infuse H into the Nickel lattice. Then apply AC to alternate the electro-motive forces on the H in the lattice. If you using two nickels in the AC/DC experiment, then the nickel on the (-) cathode should get hot during the AC cycle. The purpose of the AC is to create an EMF that will vibrate the H such that fusion probability increases. Best Regards, Chuck On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Chuck. It's a fun hobby. I don't program in Java having done so much in visual basic over the years. Fortunately, I found a language for Android that is very much like VB called Basic4Androidhttps://www.plimus.com/jsp/redirect.jsp?contractId=1715566referrer=1047706. It has a library for the IOIO board. On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Chuck Sites cbsit...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks for sharing the video Jack. I really like how your controlling that with and Android and IOIO microcontroller.I'm a beginner Android developer and the little IOIO PIC device is really cool.That is a great way of doing a duty cycle on the AC/DC. Here is a nice discussion on the IOIO (yo-yo) board for others that might be interested. http://androidcontrol.blogspot.com/2011/10/ioio-board-for-android-control-io.html Best Regards, Chuck On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 7:10 AM, Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com wrote: I shot a little video of my latest experiment with borax. It is controlled with an Android phone, IOIO microcontroller, and relay bank. I am switching back and forth between AC and DC current supplies. Pardon the mess of wires as I am early in the process. It is interesting how the electrolyte turns a copper brown color. That was after running 1 1/2 days on DC current at 5 to 13 watts. I'm using the same 8 nickels on the thoriated tungsten rod as a cathode and 4 stainless steel washers as the anode. There is more heating and almost no bubbles on AC. I'm not sure what brown color is about. I've seen this repeatedly. What I'm interested to try is to see the max temperature achieved by AC alone, then DC alone, and then AC and DC alternating for different periods of time. http://youtu.be/sH90M85S2mE Regards, Jack
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
I don't think the experience of Dr. Eben Alexander has been mentioned on Vortex: http://www.skeptiko.com/eben-alexander-the-medical-mystery-of-near-death-experience/ His is a fascinating story.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's first 1MW hot-cat to client by Feb 2013
Avi November 1st, 2012 at 4:51 AM Dear Andrea Rossi 1. Is it possible for any company now to buy 1MW **hot** cat? 2. How did you choose the first company you will install 1MW hot cat? because this is big company? Warm Regards Andrea Rossi November 1st, 2012 at 8:58 AM Dear Avi: 1. yes 2. because they signed a mammoth contract, giving the certainty of a solid future to our development. Warm Regards, A.R.
[Vo]:[OT]: HAC's Spacecraft in Solar System
I have recently determined that at least 10,000 HAC's (Highly Advanced Civilization's) Spacecraft are currently operating thruout the inner regions of our(?) Solar System at various locales. I have determined this number be fairly accurate number, essentially because of my continuous nighttime observations of both the immediate space above us, and considerably farther at thousands of miles away, 10's of thousands, 100's of thousands, and millions of miles. As I said before, many of these craft have what I refer to as a bulb-like dome on the underside that can be as dim or faint as a distance observable (w/ the unaided eye) Star, Or, can light up as bright or brighter as a landing light on a typical plane about to land at a nearby airport. Over the years, I have witnessed *those* lights up there that have displayed any number of maneuvers and/or coordinated the effects thereof that had literally altered my focus of attention, consciousness, or mind, altogether. I won't go in to every last detail of what I've seen going on up there, but I'll say this there is a whole absolute thorough complete *other* means by which a vast indepth, detailed, intracate, precise, exact, amount of information is instantly transferred thru-out space. This *other* very highly advanced complex sophisticated technology is so very capable and/or operating in such an altogether different capacity that We can only regard it as unbelievable or impossible. I know that it Is indeed quite a difficult thing for just about everyone who reads this to think I *know* what I'm trying to say here, but, I cannot disregard or deny what I have continually seen over the years up in Space, and just how attuned *they* are to this world we live on or in and/or around us. I can only say it this way... the God we tend to believe in, or not,,, is in essence a spiritual one BUT it's based on technology so very highly perfected sophisticated, that Ourkind simply put, can hardly tell the difference, let alone fully understand it. For me personally, I am somewhat almost elated and even content in knowing that a whole complete other ungodly world of being exists in space w/o end. To think, that this has already been thoroughly accomplished only god knows how many unworldly civilizations out there in space time, as we live breath and die down here, well, it just plain squashes me to the point that I feel flat. The only trouble I have right now with all of this is that I can't essentially for all intents purposes, do anything with it. The One Only System enabling *them* to be up there and operating in the ungodly sophisticated capacity they (in)obviously are, will require 10,000 of our most qualified Engine-ears, Sigh'n-tists, Fizz-assists devoting their lives and evry onuce of their expertise to it's development,,, and then it's just a relatively mind boggling matter of eliminating this biologically hazardous we refer to cellular reproduction, flesh, blood, organs, nerves, senses, etc, etc., and, we're as free as a bird... no, it's a plane... no, it's a UFO w/ very scarey looking humanoid creatures on board. The Fact of the matter is that You (being a human being) simply can't handle the rather (not so) simple little Fact about what's up there right here now, but it's why you hear and/or think about Aliens, Science Fiction, Bug Eyed Monsters, Robots, or any everything that keep you from *knowing* the truth about a subject that literally would blow you away, and/or off the surface of the earth!... *They* take no prisoners, and Youare on your own down here. *They* can of course motivate you in the right direction, and/or, can so coordinate or manipulate the world around us, so as to work to our advantage, Or, it could all go south! Thank you, for your Patron-age. Loren
Re: [Vo]:cause of hurracane
Well Frank, here is why Sandy happened... If you guys have 10 minutes to kill, you might check out my last few posts in the blogosphere. I have been updating my energetic particle model for extreme low pressure systems and I think I can/have explained the path predicted effects of the weakly-interacting massive particle and the organizing force behind Sandy. The extra moisture in the atmosphere does give Sandy Particle more vapor to collapse and condense to create clouds rain. She pretty much sucked condensed all of the water vapor from the atmosphere from the Eastern half of the United States while she was orbiting. That is why the sky is so clear and it got so cold. The low pressure system that Sandy ran into was actually the low pressure trough/contrail she created where she orbited back into the Earth to the West. Based upon the audio I posted Sandy Particle was travelling approx. 1000 miles/second with an approx. 20 second orbital period. She was in a 2-body decaying Kepler orbit with the center of mass of the Earth and her entry wound was near Albion, NY the site of the massive sinkhole that shutdown the Erie Canal a couple of months ago. Stewart Darkmattersalot.com On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 1:31 PM, fznidar...@aol.com wrote: On topic. It is fossil fuel use. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/01/bloomberg-businessweek-hurricane-sandy-controversy-stupid_n_2056407.html Off topic. Is it decadence? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/29/hurricane-sandy-gays-same-sex-marriage-obama-romney_n_2038781.html or did it just happen as it did in 1939? Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:[OT]: HAC's Spacecraft in Solar System
Loren, Based upon my research, the bulb like dome is probably the glow from the dark matter particle(s) that these aliens are residing in... The smaller they are the hotter they are... On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 1:32 PM, lorenhe...@aol.com wrote: I have recently determined that at least 10,000 HAC's (Highly Advanced Civilization's) Spacecraft are currently operating thruout the inner regions of our(?) Solar System at various locales. I have determined this number be fairly accurate number, essentially because of my continuous nighttime observations of both the immediate space above us, and considerably farther at thousands of miles away, 10's of thousands, 100's of thousands, and millions of miles. As I said before, many of these craft have what I refer to as a bulb-like dome on the underside that can be as dim or faint as a distance observable (w/ the unaided eye) Star, Or, can light up as bright or brighter as a landing light on a typical plane about to land at a nearby airport. Over the years, I have witnessed *those* lights up there that have displayed any number of maneuvers and/or coordinated the effects thereof that had literally altered my focus of attention, consciousness, or mind, altogether. I won't go in to every last detail of what I've seen going on up there, but I'll say this there is a whole absolute thorough complete *other* means by which a vast indepth, detailed, intracate, precise, exact, amount of information is instantly transferred thru-out space. This *other* very highly advanced complex sophisticated technology is so very capable and/or operating in such an altogether different capacity that We can only regard it as unbelievable or impossible. I know that it Is indeed quite a difficult thing for just about everyone who reads this to think I *know* what I'm trying to say here, but, I cannot disregard or deny what I have continually seen over the years up in Space, and just how attuned *they* are to this world we live on or in and/or around us. I can only say it this way... the God we tend to believe in, or not,,, is in essence a spiritual one BUT it's based on technology so very highly perfected sophisticated, that Ourkind simply put, can hardly tell the difference, let alone fully understand it. For me personally, I am somewhat almost elated and even content in knowing that a whole complete other ungodly world of being exists in space w/o end. To think, that this has already been thoroughly accomplished only god knows how many unworldly civilizations out there in space time, as we live breath and die down here, well, it just plain squashes me to the point that I feel flat. The only trouble I have right now with all of this is that I can't essentially for all intents purposes, do anything with it. The One Only System enabling *them* to be up there and operating in the ungodly sophisticated capacity they (in)obviously are, will require 10,000 of our most qualified Engine-ears, Sigh'n-tists, Fizz-assists devoting their lives and evry onuce of their expertise to it's development,,, and then it's just a relatively mind boggling matter of eliminating this biologically hazardous we refer to cellular reproduction, flesh, blood, organs, nerves, senses, etc, etc., and, we're as free as a bird... no, it's a plane... no, it's a UFO w/ very scarey looking humanoid creatures on board. The Fact of the matter is that You (being a human being) simply can't handle the rather (not so) simple little Fact about what's up there right here now, but it's why you hear and/or think about Aliens, Science Fiction, Bug Eyed Monsters, Robots, or any everything that keep you from *knowing* the truth about a subject that literally would blow you away, and/or off the surface of the earth!... *They* take no prisoners, and Youare on your own down here. *They* can of course motivate you in the right direction, and/or, can so coordinate or manipulate the world around us, so as to work to our advantage, Or, it could all go south! Thank you, for your Patron-age. Loren /HTML
Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update
Axil, A Muon event will exhibit a Green Glow: http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys200/lectures/icecube/icecube.html Would be a good explanation in case Russ is Popping Matter in that device, which I think he might be... Stewart Darkmattersalot.com On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 3:41 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Russ Gries has released a new research video titled #14, to pin down what the green glow is. This glow develops after the spark discharge occurs. Russ wants to find out how the glow forms and how it relates to pre-ionization of the second follow on spark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U0SwbtaZ...detailpagehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U0SwbtaZ00feature=player_detailpage On the net, I looked into some new possible causes for the green glow and have found three new possible sources as follows: One, fast electrons moving in a high vacuum will glow green near the cathode. Two, glass will phosphoresce when impacted by fast electrons. Three, helium atoms will phosphoresce when impacted by electrons. From viewing the video in my opinion, electron impact on Helium atoms seems to be the most likely cause of the mysterious green glow. Next, by using the pressure developed in the popper during spark discharge, Russ was surprised that he was not able to break his grandma’s Christmas glass that he was using to view how the green glow developes. Because of this, veiwing video #14 leads me to the following observation; the forces produced by the popper are electromagnetic in nature and a metal surface is required inside the popper to produce force. Some gas pressure develops in the glass cylinder but that pressure is not forceful enough to contribute to the compression reaction observed when a piston is installed in the popper. In the near future from the view point of experimentation, one important observation that should so be made is to measure this pressure increase of the gas to see if it has any role in the movement of the piston. -- In regards to the next observation, this popper demo shows that during the ionization glow stage, all the wires connecting the popper to the capacitors shake until the ionization phase is over. The wires must be under some stress or force from the ionization process. - Next, when micro-sized metal fragments are occasionally generated by sputtering fragmentation of the electrodes, the green ionization glow is minimized. These metal fragment(s) must localize and concentrate the electron charge contained within the plasma. Can this be Anderson localization of the electron charge around the fragment? In a solid metal, electron charge accumulates around crystal imperfections in the metal lattice. Maybe the some sort of thing can occur in gas plasma. --- In the near future from the view point of suggested experimentation, one important observation that should be made is to suspend different types of material on strings from the top of the glass cylinder and watch for movement of the material that may be imparted by the plasma onto the material. The material that the piston head is made out of might impact the upward force produced by the piston due to material’s electromagnetic characteristics. Also, it would be interesting to see experimentally if the material is heated by the localization of ionization charge onto the material. Some material that should be tested is aluminum, copper, nickel(metal from a coin), steel, stainless steel, iron, carbon, wax, plastic. --- It looks like Russ has wires connected to the feedback current removal terminals on the sides of the popper, but I can’t tell is the feedback current is being removed from the popper and dissipated. If the feedback current is not being removed from the popper, experimentally remove the feedback current from the popper; if the feedback current is removed from the cylinder, does the green glow still occur? The way electrical current flows through the popper is a complicated affair. Charge is being fed into the popper and simultaneously being dissipated from the popper. The discharge capacitors don’t fully drain because they become blocked from further current flow by a resisting charge buildup in the popper. Only after this charge buildup in the gas is sufficiently dissipated does the second lower intensity pop occur. The delayed second capacitor discharge occurs only when the remaining blocked latent residual 100 volt charge is equal to or greater than the green ionization charge in the popper. The ion intensity of the green glow must
Re: [Vo]:[OT]: HAC's Spacecraft in Solar System
Loren, Against my better judgment I read your latest post. Several times, I might add. Regarding: I know that it Is indeed quite a difficult thing for just about everyone who reads this to think I *know* what I'm trying to say here, but, I cannot disregard or deny what I have continually seen over the years up in Space, and just how attuned *they* are to this world we live on or in and/or around us. Do you have any witnesses to these personal observations you have made, or have they all been experienced while you're alone? For me personally, I am somewhat almost elated and even content in knowing that a whole complete other ungodly world of being exists in space w/o end. Are you trying to tell us that you might be somewhat/almost/elated to be an atheist? The Fact of the matter is that You (being a human being) simply can't handle the rather (not so) simple little Fact about what's up there right here now, but it's why you hear and/or think about Aliens, Science Fiction, Bug Eyed Monsters, Robots, or any everything that keep you from *knowing* the truth about a subject that literally would blow you away, and/or off the surface of the earth!... *They* take no prisoners, and Youare on your own down here. Quite a sentence of epic-like spaghetti proportions you have written. You also seem to be pointing your finger at all of us ignorant humans with all those repeated uses of the word: you. So, Loren, who is doing all the talking here? You? Or some alleged highly advanced ET who seems to enjoy getting off on pointing a judgmental finger at all of us ignorant humans? If it's the latter, I would suggest that this ET might want to consider going elsewhere in order to hone what appears to be an insatiable desire to feel superior to everyone. Perhaps he should take a humbling stroll out in the cosmic wilderness and get a taste of his own medicine. All I can say is that this particular ET has said nothing that I haven't heard oodles of times before. As for us lowly humans, we'll eventually make it out into the cosmos - eventually. But for now, our dinner plate is full. We have a planet that desperately needs our attention in order to be healed and cleaned up. Under the circumstances few of us have the time nor the inclination to listen to someone who wants to feel superior to humans. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:cause of hurracane
It's too bad Long John Nebel is no longer with us; this would have been perfect for his show. On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 13:49:33 -0400 ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: Well Frank, here is why Sandy happened... The low pressure system that Sandy ran into was actually the low pressure trough/contrail she created where she orbited back into the Earth to the West. Based upon the audio I posted Sandy Particle was travelling approx. 1000 miles/second with an approx. 20 second orbital period. She was in a 2-body decaying Kepler orbit with the center of mass of the Earth and her entry wound was near Albion, NY the site of the massive sinkhole that shutdown the Erie Canal a couple of months ago. Stewart Darkmattersalot.com
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
FYI Seevn part radio show called Myth of the Secular. This about part six. http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/episodes/2012/10/29/the-myth-of-the-secular-part-6/ In 1990 British theologian John Milbank published a five-hundred-page manifesto called Theology and Social Theory: Beyond Secular Reason. The book argued that theology should stop deferring to social theories that are just second-hand theology and declare itself, once again, the queen of the sciences. The book led, in time, to a movement called Radical Orthodoxy. IDEAS producer David Cayley profiles John Milbank. The English poet William Blake once wrote that humanity must and will have some religion - the only question is which religion. British theologian John Milbank agrees. A purely secular society, in Milbank's view, is simply not viable. The only choice in our time, he says, is between religion and nihilism. But religion for him means something more than just a private moment with God on a Sunday morning - it means a way of life. Milbank belongs to a movement called Radical Orthodoxy. Under its banner, he and a group of like-minded colleagues have argued that modern Western societies have lost touch with authentic Christianity and, as a result, are now living in a spiritually flattened world. Harry On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual ones and zeros of the neurons? You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. Jojo - Original Message - From: Patrick Ellul To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones and zeros on a memory device. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Any psychological/psychiatric/philosophical attempt to understand the soul is doom to failure from the onset. Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the operation of a PC from your understanding of the hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be severely incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that controls the behavior of the computer. Software controls the hardware. On the same token, experts in Psychology/Psychiatry/Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/etc, can never hope to completely understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - the soul, that controls the hardware consisting of your brain cells/neurons, etc. The Software soul is what needs to be understood for us to understand the behavior of man. You need to study the soul, not the brain. The brain is simply a mechanism that the soul controls much like the CPU chip is the mechanism that MS Windows controls. The analogy is apt and accurate. Hence, one is wasting their time trying to study all the ideas of these philosophers/psychologists/psychiatrists/etc. They are at best severely incomplete, at worst gravely misleading. If you want to understand the spiritual soul, go to the one who wrote the software soul. Study his book - the Bible to have a better understanding of human behavior. Jojo - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? I think Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff have the best explanation of
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
I agree that secularism is in crisis, but this doesn't mean we must return to a theocratic rule which is the danger implied by movements like radical orthodoxy. Secularism neeeds a more anthropological (mytho-poetic) foundation rather than the narrow structures of a particular science or religion. Harry On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: FYI Seevn part radio show called Myth of the Secular. This about part six. http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/episodes/2012/10/29/the-myth-of-the-secular-part-6/ In 1990 British theologian John Milbank published a five-hundred-page manifesto called Theology and Social Theory: Beyond Secular Reason. The book argued that theology should stop deferring to social theories that are just second-hand theology and declare itself, once again, the queen of the sciences. The book led, in time, to a movement called Radical Orthodoxy. IDEAS producer David Cayley profiles John Milbank. The English poet William Blake once wrote that humanity must and will have some religion - the only question is which religion. British theologian John Milbank agrees. A purely secular society, in Milbank's view, is simply not viable. The only choice in our time, he says, is between religion and nihilism. But religion for him means something more than just a private moment with God on a Sunday morning - it means a way of life. Milbank belongs to a movement called Radical Orthodoxy. Under its banner, he and a group of like-minded colleagues have argued that modern Western societies have lost touch with authentic Christianity and, as a result, are now living in a spiritually flattened world. Harry On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual ones and zeros of the neurons? You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. Jojo - Original Message - From: Patrick Ellul To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones and zeros on a memory device. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Any psychological/psychiatric/philosophical attempt to understand the soul is doom to failure from the onset. Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the operation of a PC from your understanding of the hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be severely incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that controls the behavior of the computer. Software controls the hardware. On the same token, experts in Psychology/Psychiatry/Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/etc, can never hope to completely understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - the soul, that controls the hardware consisting of your brain cells/neurons, etc. The Software soul is what needs to be understood for us to understand the behavior of man. You need to study the soul, not the brain. The brain is simply a mechanism that the soul controls much like the CPU chip is the mechanism that MS Windows controls. The analogy is apt and accurate. Hence, one is wasting their time trying to study all the ideas of these philosophers/psychologists/psychiatrists/etc. They are at best severely incomplete, at worst gravely misleading. If you want to understand the
[Vo]:Krakowski et al., ARIES study
I have temporarily uploaded this document here: http://lenr-canr.org/RossiData/KrakowskiARIES.pdf I am not sure if I should add it to the library. Anyway, anyone interested in comparing tokamak reactors to advanced fission reactors should have a look. Below is the title and abstract. - Jed LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE TOKAMAK ADVANCED REACTOR INNOVATION AND EVALUATION STUDY (ARIES) * R. A. Krakowski, C. G. Bathke, R. L. Miller, and K. A. Werley Abstract Lessons from the four-year ARIES (Advanced Reactor Innovation and Evaluation Study) investigation of four commercial magnetic-fusion-energy (MFE) power-plant embodiments of the tokamak are summarized. These lessons are derived from the physics; engineering and technology; economics; and environmental, safety, and health (ESH) characteristics of these conceptual tokamak power-plant designs. This summary of ARIES lessons is intended to provide a general indicator of the requirements of economically and environmentally attractive fusion power. The integration of fundamental tokamak physics with conceptual engineering models through a cost-based systems methodology has been especially thorough in ARIES. The resulting quantitative tradeoffs among tokamak plasma physics, plasma engineering, and a wide range of supporting reactor engineering disciplines, and the enhanced interdisciplinary understanding of the impact of constraints leading to optimal tokamak reactors are major contributions of the ARIES Project. A general conclusion drawn from this extensive investigation of the commercial potential of tokamak power plants is the need for combined, symbiotic advances in both physics and engineering before economic competitiveness with developing advanced energy sources can be projected. Comparable advances for materials are also needed for the exploitation of ESH advantages related to passive safety and reduced radioactive-waste burden. Although the above-mentioned integration of physics, engineering, economics, and ESH components is an ongoing process limited by present understanding, and although many of the ARIES assumptions remain to be verified experimentally, a preference has emerged for following the path of second-stability-regime tokamak physics towards an optimal (i. e., cost-competitive, operationally tractable, ESH-acceptable) commercial end-product. The feasibility of this optimal tokamak reactor cannot be assessed, however, until experimental results confirming the necessary physics, engineering, and materials underpinning the ARIES designs become available. Research and Development (RD) along several independent lines, therefore, would be prudent to assure the necessary advances needed for an economically competitive system with which to harness the nearly unlimited supply of nuclear-fusion fuel in a safe and environmentally benign configuration. While a moderate extrapolation from the existing tokamak data base using presently (or easily) qualified engineering materials will not attain this goal, ARIES has provided a clear indication of the potential reactor merits of the second-stability-regime tokamak plasma with both high confinement efficiency (Beta) and high overall current-drive efficiency (i. e., both low total plasma current and high bootstrap-current fraction); an important related condition is the need for a plasma that sheds a majority of the heating energy through radiation channels so that heat loads on plasma-facing components can be more equally distributed for the more-compact, high-engineering-gain reactor that would result. * Work supported by US DOE, Office of Fusion Energy.
Re: [Vo]:cause of hurracane
What's so cool about your dark matter theory is that ordinary matter would not follow the rotation of the earth, let alone do anything but go hyperbolic given the fact that the orbital velocity is orders of magnitude beyond escape velocity. My only question though is this: Have you considered hamburger as an alternative explanation to dark matter? On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 12:49 PM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: Well Frank, here is why Sandy happened... If you guys have 10 minutes to kill, you might check out my last few posts in the blogosphere. I have been updating my energetic particle model for extreme low pressure systems and I think I can/have explained the path predicted effects of the weakly-interacting massive particle and the organizing force behind Sandy. The extra moisture in the atmosphere does give Sandy Particle more vapor to collapse and condense to create clouds rain. She pretty much sucked condensed all of the water vapor from the atmosphere from the Eastern half of the United States while she was orbiting. That is why the sky is so clear and it got so cold. The low pressure system that Sandy ran into was actually the low pressure trough/contrail she created where she orbited back into the Earth to the West. Based upon the audio I posted Sandy Particle was travelling approx. 1000 miles/second with an approx. 20 second orbital period. She was in a 2-body decaying Kepler orbit with the center of mass of the Earth and her entry wound was near Albion, NY the site of the massive sinkhole that shutdown the Erie Canal a couple of months ago. Stewart Darkmattersalot.com On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 1:31 PM, fznidar...@aol.com wrote: On topic. It is fossil fuel use. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/01/bloomberg-businessweek-hurricane-sandy-controversy-stupid_n_2056407.html Off topic. Is it decadence? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/29/hurricane-sandy-gays-same-sex-marriage-obama-romney_n_2038781.html or did it just happen as it did in 1939? Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:cause of hurracane
McDonald's hamburger's are a dark matter candidate as I believe they trigger biological transmutations if you eat too many :) On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:40 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: What's so cool about your dark matter theory is that ordinary matter would not follow the rotation of the earth, let alone do anything but go hyperbolic given the fact that the orbital velocity is orders of magnitude beyond escape velocity. My only question though is this: Have you considered hamburger as an alternative explanation to dark matter? On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 12:49 PM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: Well Frank, here is why Sandy happened... If you guys have 10 minutes to kill, you might check out my last few posts in the blogosphere. I have been updating my energetic particle model for extreme low pressure systems and I think I can/have explained the path predicted effects of the weakly-interacting massive particle and the organizing force behind Sandy. The extra moisture in the atmosphere does give Sandy Particle more vapor to collapse and condense to create clouds rain. She pretty much sucked condensed all of the water vapor from the atmosphere from the Eastern half of the United States while she was orbiting. That is why the sky is so clear and it got so cold. The low pressure system that Sandy ran into was actually the low pressure trough/contrail she created where she orbited back into the Earth to the West. Based upon the audio I posted Sandy Particle was travelling approx. 1000 miles/second with an approx. 20 second orbital period. She was in a 2-body decaying Kepler orbit with the center of mass of the Earth and her entry wound was near Albion, NY the site of the massive sinkhole that shutdown the Erie Canal a couple of months ago. Stewart Darkmattersalot.com On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 1:31 PM, fznidar...@aol.com wrote: On topic. It is fossil fuel use. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/01/bloomberg-businessweek-hurricane-sandy-controversy-stupid_n_2056407.html Off topic. Is it decadence? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/29/hurricane-sandy-gays-same-sex-marriage-obama-romney_n_2038781.html or did it just happen as it did in 1939? Frank Znidarsic
[Vo]:Fwd: cause of hurracane
I know I know. The storm was following Rossi from Italy to Canada. Perhaps Jed, single handily, produced enough hot air down there in Georgia to get the thing spinning. What about all of those UFO. Their either vortex may had did it. Could the storm have been attracted to John Mills lab in NJ. All of the hydrinos may have pulled it in. Maybe the heavy electrons at lattice energy pulled it in. Robert Park is out east, Maybe he knows.
Re: [Vo]:Fwd: cause of hurracane
It a darn good thing that the storm did not come of the lab at Energitics Technology. If it did it would have been pulsing like a heart. Who knows what would have happened then. Superwaves and hot air. whoo.
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
Some believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is fertilized; aka the moment of conception. In this way of thinking, with DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA has the potential to form a complete person, but at the time of conception no organ is yet formed to contain the soul. With current technology, any cell in the body can be transformed into a omnipotent cell that can produce a human. So human spiritual characteristic is inherent in any DNA present in the human body. If this is true, do you commit murder when you cut your hair or trim your finger nails? If a mouse is given flawed disease carrying human DNA to simulate human disease or a goat is given human genes to produce human insulin, have these animals become human with a soul. If a geneticist copies human DNA, and puts it into a animal cell, does the animal become human? What parts of human DNA define the soul? Please extend your theology into the domain of genetic manipulation in your quest to define the soul. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual ones and zeros of the neurons? You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones and zeros on a memory device. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Any psychological/psychiatric/**philosophical attempt to understand the soul is doom to failure from the onset. Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the operation of a PC from your understanding of the hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be severely incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that controls the behavior of the computer. Software controls the hardware. On the same token, experts in Psychology/Psychiatry/** Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/**etc, can never hope to completely understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - the soul, that controls the hardware consisting of your brain cells/neurons, etc. The Software soul is what needs to be understood for us to understand the behavior of man. You need to study the soul, not the brain. The brain is simply a mechanism that the soul controls much like the CPU chip is the mechanism that MS Windows controls. The analogy is apt and accurate. Hence, one is wasting their time trying to study all the ideas of these philosophers/psychologists/**psychiatrists/etc. They are at best severely incomplete, at worst gravely misleading. If you want to understand the spiritual soul, go to the one who wrote the software soul. Study his book - the Bible to have a better understanding of human behavior. Jojo - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? I think Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff have the best explanation of consciousness to date. It's called Orchestrated Objective Reduction, or Orch-OR. The two actually developed the idea separately, Sir Penrose being a physicist and Hameroff being a physician who specialized
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
Mytho-poetic? There is enough beauty and poetry in science as it is. We don't need made up stories. Giovanni On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that secularism is in crisis, but this doesn't mean we must return to a theocratic rule which is the danger implied by movements like radical orthodoxy. Secularism neeeds a more anthropological (mytho-poetic) foundation rather than the narrow structures of a particular science or religion. Harry On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: FYI Seevn part radio show called Myth of the Secular. This about part six. http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/episodes/2012/10/29/the-myth-of-the-secular-part-6/ In 1990 British theologian John Milbank published a five-hundred-page manifesto called Theology and Social Theory: Beyond Secular Reason. The book argued that theology should stop deferring to social theories that are just second-hand theology and declare itself, once again, the queen of the sciences. The book led, in time, to a movement called Radical Orthodoxy. IDEAS producer David Cayley profiles John Milbank. The English poet William Blake once wrote that humanity must and will have some religion - the only question is which religion. British theologian John Milbank agrees. A purely secular society, in Milbank's view, is simply not viable. The only choice in our time, he says, is between religion and nihilism. But religion for him means something more than just a private moment with God on a Sunday morning - it means a way of life. Milbank belongs to a movement called Radical Orthodoxy. Under its banner, he and a group of like-minded colleagues have argued that modern Western societies have lost touch with authentic Christianity and, as a result, are now living in a spiritually flattened world. Harry On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual ones and zeros of the neurons? You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. Jojo - Original Message - From: Patrick Ellul To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones and zeros on a memory device. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Any psychological/psychiatric/philosophical attempt to understand the soul is doom to failure from the onset. Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the operation of a PC from your understanding of the hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be severely incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that controls the behavior of the computer. Software controls the hardware. On the same token, experts in Psychology/Psychiatry/Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/etc, can never hope to completely understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - the soul, that controls the hardware consisting of your brain cells/neurons, etc. The Software soul is what needs to be understood for us to understand the behavior of man. You need to study the soul, not the brain. The brain is simply a mechanism that the soul controls much like the
RE: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
Can theology and our science ever fully agree Can our little brains fully understand Gods mind Can knowledge fully understand the things of the Spirit Knowledge says The Spirit spoke through a donkey , is God part mule knowledge says He protects us and gathers us and hides us under his wings , is He part chook knowledge says He organised his own son to be Tortued and killed , is He part maniac This I trust , after examineing his words and actions Jesus said to Phillip when you see me , you see the Father not long after these words Jesus let them do what they wanted . They crucified him Knowledge says , I now have eternal life , His love has bought me Science is great , I enjoy it . Theology is interesting and helpful, but in the end I personally had to trust in His love for me . This is the thing that has given me a Peace that has surpast my understanding Pete Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:17:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Some believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is fertilized; aka the moment of conception. In this way of thinking, with DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA has the potential to form a complete person, but at the time of conception no organ is yet formed to contain the soul. With current technology, any cell in the body can be transformed into a omnipotent cell that can produce a human. So human spiritual characteristic is inherent in any DNA present in the human body. If this is true, do you commit murder when you cut your hair or trim your finger nails? If a mouse is given flawed disease carrying human DNA to simulate human disease or a goat is given human genes to produce human insulin, have these animals become human with a soul. If a geneticist copies human DNA, and puts it into a animal cell, does the animal become human? What parts of human DNA define the soul? Please extend your theology into the domain of genetic manipulation in your quest to define the soul. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual ones and zeros of the neurons? You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. Jojo - Original Message - From: Patrick Ellul To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones and zeros on a memory device. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Any psychological/psychiatric/philosophical attempt to understand the soul is doom to failure from the onset. Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the operation of a PC from your understanding of the hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be severely incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that controls the behavior of the computer. Software controls the hardware. On the same token, experts in Psychology/Psychiatry/Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/etc, can never hope to completely understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - the soul, that controls the hardware consisting of your brain cells/neurons, etc. The Software soul is what needs to be
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
This is not a complete criticism but it basically summarizes the main point, there is no need to introduce quantum mechanics to explain consciousness. We have not yet a full explanation but everything we know about neuroscience points to an explanation that would need just classical physics (networks and dynamical systems). http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreenv=Gq9ldQys3_ENR=1 Giovanni On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Statewide Homes Peter B ddc...@hotmail.comwrote: Can theology and our science ever fully agree Can our little brains fully understand Gods mind Can knowledge fully understand the things of the Spirit Knowledge says The Spirit spoke through a donkey , is God part mule knowledge says He protects us and gathers us and hides us under his wings , is He part chook knowledge says He organised his own son to be Tortued and killed , is He part maniac This I trust , after examineing his words and actions Jesus said to Phillip when you see me , you see the Father not long after these words Jesus let them do what they wanted . They crucified him Knowledge says , I now have eternal life , His love has bought me Science is great , I enjoy it . Theology is interesting and helpful, but in the end I personally had to trust in His love for me . This is the thing that has given me a Peace that has surpast my understanding Pete -- Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:17:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Some believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is fertilized; aka the moment of conception. In this way of thinking, with DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA has the potential to form a complete person, but at the time of conception no organ is yet formed to contain the soul. With current technology, any cell in the body can be transformed into a omnipotent cell that can produce a human. So human spiritual characteristic is inherent in any DNA present in the human body. If this is true, do you commit murder when you cut your hair or trim your finger nails? If a mouse is given flawed disease carrying human DNA to simulate human disease or a goat is given human genes to produce human insulin, have these animals become human with a soul. If a geneticist copies human DNA, and puts it into a animal cell, does the animal become human? What parts of human DNA define the soul? Please extend your theology into the domain of genetic manipulation in your quest to define the soul. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual ones and zeros of the neurons? You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones and zeros on a memory device. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Any psychological/psychiatric/**philosophical attempt to understand the soul is doom to failure from the onset. Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the operation of a PC from your understanding of the hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best,
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
This is a and more complete criticism of Penrose ideas on consciousness. http://www.mth.kcl.ac.uk/~llandau/Homepage/Math/penrose.html Giovanni On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.comwrote: This is not a complete criticism but it basically summarizes the main point, there is no need to introduce quantum mechanics to explain consciousness. We have not yet a full explanation but everything we know about neuroscience points to an explanation that would need just classical physics (networks and dynamical systems). http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreenv=Gq9ldQys3_ENR=1 Giovanni On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Statewide Homes Peter B ddc...@hotmail.com wrote: Can theology and our science ever fully agree Can our little brains fully understand Gods mind Can knowledge fully understand the things of the Spirit Knowledge says The Spirit spoke through a donkey , is God part mule knowledge says He protects us and gathers us and hides us under his wings , is He part chook knowledge says He organised his own son to be Tortued and killed , is He part maniac This I trust , after examineing his words and actions Jesus said to Phillip when you see me , you see the Father not long after these words Jesus let them do what they wanted . They crucified him Knowledge says , I now have eternal life , His love has bought me Science is great , I enjoy it . Theology is interesting and helpful, but in the end I personally had to trust in His love for me . This is the thing that has given me a Peace that has surpast my understanding Pete -- Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:17:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Some believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is fertilized; aka the moment of conception. In this way of thinking, with DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA has the potential to form a complete person, but at the time of conception no organ is yet formed to contain the soul. With current technology, any cell in the body can be transformed into a omnipotent cell that can produce a human. So human spiritual characteristic is inherent in any DNA present in the human body. If this is true, do you commit murder when you cut your hair or trim your finger nails? If a mouse is given flawed disease carrying human DNA to simulate human disease or a goat is given human genes to produce human insulin, have these animals become human with a soul. If a geneticist copies human DNA, and puts it into a animal cell, does the animal become human? What parts of human DNA define the soul? Please extend your theology into the domain of genetic manipulation in your quest to define the soul. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual ones and zeros of the neurons? You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones and zeros on a memory device. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Any psychological/psychiatric/**philosophical attempt to understand the soul is doom to failure from the onset.
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
And : http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2007/10/26/quantum-consciousness-and-the/ On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.comwrote: This is a and more complete criticism of Penrose ideas on consciousness. http://www.mth.kcl.ac.uk/~llandau/Homepage/Math/penrose.html Giovanni On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: This is not a complete criticism but it basically summarizes the main point, there is no need to introduce quantum mechanics to explain consciousness. We have not yet a full explanation but everything we know about neuroscience points to an explanation that would need just classical physics (networks and dynamical systems). http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreenv=Gq9ldQys3_ENR=1 Giovanni On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Statewide Homes Peter B ddc...@hotmail.com wrote: Can theology and our science ever fully agree Can our little brains fully understand Gods mind Can knowledge fully understand the things of the Spirit Knowledge says The Spirit spoke through a donkey , is God part mule knowledge says He protects us and gathers us and hides us under his wings , is He part chook knowledge says He organised his own son to be Tortued and killed , is He part maniac This I trust , after examineing his words and actions Jesus said to Phillip when you see me , you see the Father not long after these words Jesus let them do what they wanted . They crucified him Knowledge says , I now have eternal life , His love has bought me Science is great , I enjoy it . Theology is interesting and helpful, but in the end I personally had to trust in His love for me . This is the thing that has given me a Peace that has surpast my understanding Pete -- Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:17:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Some believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is fertilized; aka the moment of conception. In this way of thinking, with DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA has the potential to form a complete person, but at the time of conception no organ is yet formed to contain the soul. With current technology, any cell in the body can be transformed into a omnipotent cell that can produce a human. So human spiritual characteristic is inherent in any DNA present in the human body. If this is true, do you commit murder when you cut your hair or trim your finger nails? If a mouse is given flawed disease carrying human DNA to simulate human disease or a goat is given human genes to produce human insulin, have these animals become human with a soul. If a geneticist copies human DNA, and puts it into a animal cell, does the animal become human? What parts of human DNA define the soul? Please extend your theology into the domain of genetic manipulation in your quest to define the soul. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual ones and zeros of the neurons? You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones and zeros on a memory device. On Thu, Nov
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
Myth, poetry and dreams tell us the meaning of life. The direction of science and society is infleunced by them. Harry On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: Mytho-poetic? There is enough beauty and poetry in science as it is. We don't need made up stories. Giovanni On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that secularism is in crisis, but this doesn't mean we must return to a theocratic rule which is the danger implied by movements like radical orthodoxy. Secularism neeeds a more anthropological (mytho-poetic) foundation rather than the narrow structures of a particular science or religion. Harry On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: FYI Seevn part radio show called Myth of the Secular. This about part six. http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/episodes/2012/10/29/the-myth-of-the-secular-part-6/ In 1990 British theologian John Milbank published a five-hundred-page manifesto called Theology and Social Theory: Beyond Secular Reason. The book argued that theology should stop deferring to social theories that are just second-hand theology and declare itself, once again, the queen of the sciences. The book led, in time, to a movement called Radical Orthodoxy. IDEAS producer David Cayley profiles John Milbank. The English poet William Blake once wrote that humanity must and will have some religion - the only question is which religion. British theologian John Milbank agrees. A purely secular society, in Milbank's view, is simply not viable. The only choice in our time, he says, is between religion and nihilism. But religion for him means something more than just a private moment with God on a Sunday morning - it means a way of life. Milbank belongs to a movement called Radical Orthodoxy. Under its banner, he and a group of like-minded colleagues have argued that modern Western societies have lost touch with authentic Christianity and, as a result, are now living in a spiritually flattened world. Harry On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual ones and zeros of the neurons? You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. Jojo - Original Message - From: Patrick Ellul To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones and zeros on a memory device. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Any psychological/psychiatric/philosophical attempt to understand the soul is doom to failure from the onset. Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the operation of a PC from your understanding of the hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be severely incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that controls the behavior of the computer. Software controls the hardware. On the same token, experts in Psychology/Psychiatry/Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/etc, can never hope to completely understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - the soul, that controls the hardware consisting of your brain
[Vo]:OT: Flight Safety in Middle Earth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=cBlRbrB_Gnc v=cBlRbrB_Gnc .and have a pleasant trip! Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:OT: Flight Safety in Middle Earth
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 9:08 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=cBlRbrB_Gnc Good grief! Shave those feet!
Re: [Vo]:OT: Flight Safety in Middle Earth
I prefer these Air NZ ads and safety guides done entirely in body paint, where the theme is we have nothing to hide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEsZColk23g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Mq9HAE62Y My daughter spent a year in NZ. She says their national motto is: Sure, why the hell not? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
Axil, I always like your responses because you always get me thinking deeper. Anyways, I feel there are a few errors in your logic. First, you need to realize that the body - cells, DNA, etc. that form the human physical attributes exist in only 4 dimensions (length, width, height, and time). The soul on the other hand, comes from God and imparted by God and hence is Spiritual - metaphysical. A Soul is a hyper-dimensional entity. It exists beyond the 4 dimensions of our physical existence. That is why it survives our physical death. Your presupposition that a single fertilized egg, being small and non-functionalized, therefore can not contain the soul is a faulty premise. The soul is not bound by the size nor the non-functionality of a single egg. Second, you presuppose that the soul is bound to the cells and DNA. IOW, you say that by destroying a fingernail, you are killing a living entity. That is in fact is a faulty understanding. The soul is not bound to any cell or DNA. It exist 'with' our physical cells, DNA and body; not exist 'because of' our physical cells, DNA and body. The cells does not contaiin part of a soul that you kill when you trim your fingernail. The source of your (mis)understanding is the ancient occultic religion of animism, which presupposes that everything has a soul, including inanimate objects like rocks and fingernails. Third. The creator of our being, clearly says that life starts in the womb. That means, conception is the time He imparts the living soul. The Bible teaches that God breathed into Adam and Adam became a Living soul. Before God's breathe, Adam was just a collection of dirt. God imparted the life. Before conception, the female egg is not alive, hence, when a woman experiences a menstrual cycle, that is not murder. Immediately at conception, God breathe into that union of egg and sperm a life. From that point on, that cells contains a living soul. That life is alive until such time as God decides to separate that living soul from that body, hence physical death occurs. Fourth, Putting human DNA to animal or vice versa has nothing to do with life or the soul. Man can do this all day long but until God breathes into that creation, it is not a lviing soul. As mentioned above, the soul is not bound to a cell or single DNA that you carry along with it when you transfer DNA to another animal. The soul is software. A computer is dead without software. You do not transfer software when you transfer a single resistor of a PC into another circuit. Last, my understanding is not of my own origin. I have no intellect to extend my theology, since it is not my theology to begin with. If you want to understand man and his soul, you have to study the software manual that comes with it. You need to study the Bible. Jojo - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? Some believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is fertilized; aka the moment of conception. In this way of thinking, with DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA has the potential to form a complete person, but at the time of conception no organ is yet formed to contain the soul. With current technology, any cell in the body can be transformed into a omnipotent cell that can produce a human. So human spiritual characteristic is inherent in any DNA present in the human body. If this is true, do you commit murder when you cut your hair or trim your finger nails? If a mouse is given flawed disease carrying human DNA to simulate human disease or a goat is given human genes to produce human insulin, have these animals become human with a soul. If a geneticist copies human DNA, and puts it into a animal cell, does the animal become human? What parts of human DNA define the soul? Please extend your theology into the domain of genetic manipulation in your quest to define the soul. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
Harry, it seems that you as well as other people are always concerned with imposing a theocratic rule. No one wants a theocratic rule, including me. I don't believe any Christian person is attempting to do that, so your concerns are without merit. Christians know better than to impose any monarchy by ourselves. Jesus Christ will install himself as a Monarch when he comes back without any help from any of us. Hence, that Monarchy will be established totally of his own power, not by the power of any Christian movement. It will be a time of good and just governance - no corruption and injustice that currently plagues our society.+ Jojo - Original Message - From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 3:18 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? I agree that secularism is in crisis, but this doesn't mean we must return to a theocratic rule which is the danger implied by movements like radical orthodoxy. Secularism neeeds a more anthropological (mytho-poetic) foundation rather than the narrow structures of a particular science or religion. Harry On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: FYI Seevn part radio show called Myth of the Secular. This about part six. http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/episodes/2012/10/29/the-myth-of-the-secular-part-6/ In 1990 British theologian John Milbank published a five-hundred-page manifesto called Theology and Social Theory: Beyond Secular Reason. The book argued that theology should stop deferring to social theories that are just second-hand theology and declare itself, once again, the queen of the sciences. The book led, in time, to a movement called Radical Orthodoxy. IDEAS producer David Cayley profiles John Milbank. The English poet William Blake once wrote that humanity must and will have some religion - the only question is which religion. British theologian John Milbank agrees. A purely secular society, in Milbank's view, is simply not viable. The only choice in our time, he says, is between religion and nihilism. But religion for him means something more than just a private moment with God on a Sunday morning - it means a way of life. Milbank belongs to a movement called Radical Orthodoxy. Under its banner, he and a group of like-minded colleagues have argued that modern Western societies have lost touch with authentic Christianity and, as a result, are now living in a spiritually flattened world. Harry On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual ones and zeros of the neurons? You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. Jojo - Original Message - From: Patrick Ellul To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones and zeros on a memory device. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Any psychological/psychiatric/philosophical attempt to understand the soul is doom to failure from the onset. Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the operation of a PC from your understanding of the hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be severely incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that controls the behavior of the computer. Software
[Vo]:Prometeon site -- FIVE eCat products
http://prometeon.it/index.php http://ecatreport.com/andrearossi/prometeon-goes-live The 5 products are: 1 MW electrical plant: produces up to 120 degrees C, especially useful in areas where there is not gas supply. Valuable for producing some of the most energy efficient heat on the planet. 1 MW gas plant: This is the same plant mentioned above, except it is capable of operating with gas power rather than electricity. This plant offers even greater savings on energy bills. Industrial E-Cat: to be marketed by summer of 2013. An Electric Stand Alone unit that will produce surplus electricity that will keep the E-Cat running in self sustained mode, after the initial power up. This is recommended for utility companies and industrial applications. Hot Cat: The first one to be delivered in February of next year. A 1MW plant capable of producing high temperatures and producing electricity. Recommended for industrial and utility companies. Thermal-Electric E-Cat: This plant is under development, and will provide heat and electricity in industrial applications. Prometeon does not mention any pricing on their website, yet, but does offer a payment plan of up to 4 years. It also seems that the prices will be negotiable. Prometion, in stating delivery times, says: “For products already on the market, is max. 4 months from the order, unless saturation of the production capacity for large orders, in which case the time may be longer.” - - -- - - - A diagram indicates an 85% efficiency --- 50% Heat 35% Electricity 15% lost
Re: [Vo]:Prometeon site -- FIVE eCat products
They come in an assortment of different colours. Invisible white, see-through yellow and transparent blue. I wish they would pay more attention to the elephant in the room - the fact that there is still no publicly available validation by a credible third party. Sent from my iPhone On 02/11/2012, at 12:21 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: http://prometeon.it/index.php http://ecatreport.com/andrearossi/prometeon-goes-live The 5 products are: 1 MW electrical plant: produces up to 120 degrees C, especially useful in areas where there is not gas supply. Valuable for producing some of the most energy efficient heat on the planet. 1 MW gas plant: This is the same plant mentioned above, except it is capable of operating with gas power rather than electricity. This plant offers even greater savings on energy bills. Industrial E-Cat: to be marketed by summer of 2013. An Electric Stand Alone unit that will produce surplus electricity that will keep the E-Cat running in self sustained mode, after the initial power up. This is recommended for utility companies and industrial applications. Hot Cat: The first one to be delivered in February of next year. A 1MW plant capable of producing high temperatures and producing electricity. Recommended for industrial and utility companies. Thermal-Electric E-Cat: This plant is under development, and will provide heat and electricity in industrial applications. Prometeon does not mention any pricing on their website, yet, but does offer a payment plan of up to 4 years. It also seems that the prices will be negotiable. Prometion, in stating delivery times, says: “For products already on the market, is max. 4 months from the order, unless saturation of the production capacity for large orders, in which case the time may be longer.” - - -- - - - A diagram indicates an 85% efficiency --- 50% Heat 35% Electricity 15% lost
Re: [Vo]:Prometeon site -- FIVE eCat products
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 10:40 PM, *** Craig Brown *** cr...@overunity.co wrote: I wish they would pay more attention to the elephant in the room - the fact that there is still no publicly available validation by a credible third party. It was not an elephant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo
Re: [Vo]:New patent by Blacklight Power: WO2012138576A1
A full text pdf version is available at: http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/H2o-based-electrochemical-hydrogen-catalyst/WO2012138576A1.pdf An earlier, related USPTO patent application - HETEROGENEOUS HYDROGEN-CATALYST POWER SYSTEM is at: http://www.google.com/patents/US20120122017 Teslaalset wrote: 1. An electrochemical power system that generates at least one of electricity and thermal energy comprising a vessel closed to atmosphere, the vessel comprising at least one cathode; at least one anode, at least one bipolar plate, and reactants that constitute hydrino reactants during cell operation with separate electron flow and ion mass transport, the reactants comprising at least two components chosen from: a) at least one source of H2O; b) at least one source of catalyst or a catalyst comprising at least one of the group chosen from nH, OH, OH, nascent ¾0, ¾S, or MN¾, wherein n is an integer and M is alkali metal; and c) at least one source of atomic hydrogen or atomic hydrogen, one or more reactants to form at least one of the source of catalyst, the catalyst, the source of atomic hydrogen, and the atomic hydrogen; one or more reactants to initiate the catalysis of atomic hydrogen; and a support, wherein the combination of the cathode, anode, reactants, and bipolar plate maintains a chemical potential between each cathode and corresponding anode to permit the catalysis of atomic hydrogen to propagate, and the system further comprising an electrolysis system. http://w.pat.tc/WO2012138576A1http://www.linkedin.com/redirect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw%2Epat%2Etc%2FWO2012138576A1urlhash=Ju6a_t=tracking_disc
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
A chimera or chimaera is a single organism that is composed of two or more different populations of genetically distinct cells that originated from different zygotes involved in sexual reproduction. Chimeras are formed from at least four parent cells (two fertilized eggs or early embryos fused together). Each population of cells keeps its own character and the resulting organism is a mixture of tissues. Chimeras are typically seen in animals; there are some reports of human chimerism. In the process of human chimerism, two separate souls existed at the time of conception. When the early embryos fused together sometime after conception, does two souls become one? Or does one of the souls die? Does the chimera have two souls? What Bible verse direct us in answering these soul allocation questions associated with the formation of a chimera? = Regarding the soul formation process associated with identical twin formation. When the soul is created at conception, one soul is formed. But at a later time, the blastocyst undergoes fission into two separate individuals. When is the soul of the second individual formed? This second soul could not have been in place at the time of conception. I contend that the Bible does not cover this secondary soul creation process. Am I correct on this point? On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Axil, I always like your responses because you always get me thinking deeper. Anyways, I feel there are a few errors in your logic. First, you need to realize that the body - cells, DNA, etc. that form the human physical attributes exist in only 4 dimensions (length, width, height, and time). The soul on the other hand, comes from God and imparted by God and hence is Spiritual - metaphysical. A Soul is a hyper-dimensional entity. It exists beyond the 4 dimensions of our physical existence. That is why it survives our physical death. Your presupposition that a single fertilized egg, being small and non-functionalized, therefore can not contain the soul is a faulty premise. The soul is not bound by the size nor the non-functionality of a single egg. Second, you presuppose that the soul is bound to the cells and DNA. IOW, you say that by destroying a fingernail, you are killing a living entity. That is in fact is a faulty understanding. The soul is not bound to any cell or DNA. It exist 'with' our physical cells, DNA and body; not exist 'because of' our physical cells, DNA and body. The cells does not contaiin part of a soul that you kill when you trim your fingernail. The source of your (mis)understanding is the ancient occultic religion of animism, which presupposes that everything has a soul, including inanimate objects like rocks and fingernails. Third. The creator of our being, clearly says that life starts in the womb. That means, conception is the time He imparts the living soul. The Bible teaches that God breathed into Adam and Adam became a Living soul. Before God's breathe, Adam was just a collection of dirt. God imparted the life. Before conception, the female egg is not alive, hence, when a woman experiences a menstrual cycle, that is not murder. Immediately at conception, God breathe into that union of egg and sperm a life. From that point on, that cells contains a living soul. That life is alive until such time as God decides to separate that living soul from that body, hence physical death occurs. Fourth, Putting human DNA to animal or vice versa has nothing to do with life or the soul. Man can do this all day long but until God breathes into that creation, it is not a lviing soul. As mentioned above, the soul is not bound to a cell or single DNA that you carry along with it when you transfer DNA to another animal. The soul is software. A computer is dead without software. You do not transfer software when you transfer a single resistor of a PC into another circuit. Last, my understanding is not of my own origin. I have no intellect to extend my theology, since it is not my theology to begin with. If you want to understand man and his soul, you have to study the software manual that comes with it. You need to study the Bible. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2012 4:17 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? Some believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is fertilized; aka the moment of conception. In this way of thinking, with DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA has the potential to form a complete person, but at the time of conception no organ is yet formed to contain the soul. With current technology, any cell in the body can be transformed into a omnipotent cell that can produce a human. So human spiritual characteristic is inherent in any DNA present in the human body.
Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
How can anybody in the 21st century still mention the bible for any guidance on any topics goes beyond me. Don't you realize it is the wisdom of some ignorant goat herder that lived thousands of year ago? Giovanni On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:51 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: A chimera or chimaera is a single organism that is composed of two or more different populations of genetically distinct cells that originated from different zygotes involved in sexual reproduction. Chimeras are formed from at least four parent cells (two fertilized eggs or early embryos fused together). Each population of cells keeps its own character and the resulting organism is a mixture of tissues. Chimeras are typically seen in animals; there are some reports of human chimerism. In the process of human chimerism, two separate souls existed at the time of conception. When the early embryos fused together sometime after conception, does two souls become one? Or does one of the souls die? Does the chimera have two souls? What Bible verse direct us in answering these soul allocation questions associated with the formation of a chimera? = Regarding the soul formation process associated with identical twin formation. When the soul is created at conception, one soul is formed. But at a later time, the blastocyst undergoes fission into two separate individuals. When is the soul of the second individual formed? This second soul could not have been in place at the time of conception. I contend that the Bible does not cover this secondary soul creation process. Am I correct on this point? On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Axil, I always like your responses because you always get me thinking deeper. Anyways, I feel there are a few errors in your logic. First, you need to realize that the body - cells, DNA, etc. that form the human physical attributes exist in only 4 dimensions (length, width, height, and time). The soul on the other hand, comes from God and imparted by God and hence is Spiritual - metaphysical. A Soul is a hyper-dimensional entity. It exists beyond the 4 dimensions of our physical existence. That is why it survives our physical death. Your presupposition that a single fertilized egg, being small and non-functionalized, therefore can not contain the soul is a faulty premise. The soul is not bound by the size nor the non-functionality of a single egg. Second, you presuppose that the soul is bound to the cells and DNA. IOW, you say that by destroying a fingernail, you are killing a living entity. That is in fact is a faulty understanding. The soul is not bound to any cell or DNA. It exist 'with' our physical cells, DNA and body; not exist 'because of' our physical cells, DNA and body. The cells does not contaiin part of a soul that you kill when you trim your fingernail. The source of your (mis)understanding is the ancient occultic religion of animism, which presupposes that everything has a soul, including inanimate objects like rocks and fingernails. Third. The creator of our being, clearly says that life starts in the womb. That means, conception is the time He imparts the living soul. The Bible teaches that God breathed into Adam and Adam became a Living soul. Before God's breathe, Adam was just a collection of dirt. God imparted the life. Before conception, the female egg is not alive, hence, when a woman experiences a menstrual cycle, that is not murder. Immediately at conception, God breathe into that union of egg and sperm a life. From that point on, that cells contains a living soul. That life is alive until such time as God decides to separate that living soul from that body, hence physical death occurs. Fourth, Putting human DNA to animal or vice versa has nothing to do with life or the soul. Man can do this all day long but until God breathes into that creation, it is not a lviing soul. As mentioned above, the soul is not bound to a cell or single DNA that you carry along with it when you transfer DNA to another animal. The soul is software. A computer is dead without software. You do not transfer software when you transfer a single resistor of a PC into another circuit. Last, my understanding is not of my own origin. I have no intellect to extend my theology, since it is not my theology to begin with. If you want to understand man and his soul, you have to study the software manual that comes with it. You need to study the Bible. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2012 4:17 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? Some believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is fertilized; aka the moment of conception. In this way of thinking, with DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA has the potential
